Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 9:33 PM wrote: > I don't think this approach has ever worked in > the open source world -- it always starts with > someone building something useful. The vision > and goal is defined by the work being done. > > After something useful is built, people start > to join in and

Re: [9fans] one weird trick to break p9sk1 ?

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 12:44 PM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > 23h...@gmail.com: > > sorry for ignoring your ideas about a p9sk3, but is your mentioning of > > ocam's razor implying that dp9ik is too complicated? > > is there any other reason to stick with DES instead of AES in > >

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 4:17 PM Jacob Moody wrote: > On 5/11/24 14:59, Dan Cross wrote: > > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:36 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> explanation of dp9ik, which while useful, only > >>> addresses what (I believe) Richard was refer

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 4:05 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > are you discontinuing 9legacy? I'm not doing anything, just explaining why it hasn't happened. Hey! It's a nice day out. A bit chilly with some wind, but sunny. I don't know about you, but I'm going fishing. - Dan C.

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:52 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > it's YOUR fork, why aren't you doing it? For a simple reason: time. The work to integrate it in isn't technically that difficult, but requires time, which is always in short supply. - Dan C. > On Sat, May 11, 2024 at

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:36 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > explanation of dp9ik, which while useful, only > > addresses what (I believe) Richard was referring to in passing, simply > > noting the small key size of DES and how the shared secret is > > vulnerable to dictionary attacks. > > i

Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:26 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 12:59 PM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > > From: o...@eigenstate.org > > > ... > > > keep in mind that it can literally be brute forced in an > > > afternoon by a teenager[1][2]; even a gpu

Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 4:31 AM Giacomo Tesio wrote: > Hi 9fans > > Il 18 Aprile 2024 22:41:50 CEST, Dan Cross ha scritto: > > > > Git and Jujitsu are, frankly, superior > > out of curiosity, to your knowedge, did anyone ever tried to port fossil > scm > to

Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 12:10 AM wrote: > Quoth Dan Cross : > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just an `echo` into fossilcons, > > isn't it? `fsys main snap -a` or something like it? > > it would be if being able to write to fossilcons > didn't imply being ab

Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 7:18 PM Bakul Shah via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > On Apr 18, 2024, at 2:48 PM, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > > > Just another reason to eventually have Rust on Plan 9… > > > Yeah. Compiles are too damn fast; no time to make masala chai :-) > Arrey yaar, miri vo ki bahoat

Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 5:01 PM Steve simon wrote: > re: VCS -vs-dump > > I always planned to add code to fossil to allow members of (say) the 'dump' > group to trigger fa fossil to venti dump at arbitrary times. > If with this it would be trivial to have a 'release' rc script which could >

Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 4:27 PM Bakul Shah via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > Did anyone try to port sccs to plan9? Interesting question; I suspect not. The only reason to have done so would have been to inspect source repositories created outside of plan 9, in which case it likely would have

Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community. [Was:Re: [9fans] Supported Notebooks]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:04 PM wrote: > Since the Plan 9 Foundation doesn't focus on technical aspects, Would the > formation of a Plan 9 Core Team be the next logical step? My understanding is > the core team would decide technical direction and implementation. What are > your thoughts? If

Re: [9fans] Plan9 multi-core support

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 9:28 PM Don Bailey wrote: > Rob - would you be willing to tell us what the novel work is (and more > about it) that still has relevance today? I'm sure I'm not the only one on > the list that would love to learn more about that history. > I wouldn’t try to speak for Rob,

Re: [9fans]

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 6:34 PM Romano wrote: > References: > > Subject: RUDP and/or others > > I know this is from a thread almost 8 years old on 9fans. > > I'm ignorant of why RUDP wasn't used in lieu of TCP for 9P > connections. Anyone know the whys and wherefores (either technical, >

Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:37 AM Charles Forsyth wrote: > It was the different characteristics of hard drives, even decent SATA, > compared to SSD and nvme that I had in mind. Since details have been requested about this. I wouldn't presume to speak from Charles, but some of those differences

Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 10:48 AM Bakul Shah wrote: >[snip] > Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original > port with some help from me. He didn't want to > maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am > maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but > AFAIK it doesn't cover anything

Re: [9fans] Re: _threadmalloc() size>100000000; shouldn't be totalmalloc?

On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 11:38 AM adr wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Dan Cross wrote: > > You mean by `newthread` and `chancreate`? Those are part of the > > thread library. Notice that there are no callers outside of > > /sys/src/libthread. > > What I mean is t

Re: [9fans] Re: _threadmalloc() size>100000000; shouldn't be totalmalloc?

On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 10:22 AM adr wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Dan Cross wrote: > > [snip] > > Given the name of the function (`_threadmalloc`), I'd guess that this isn't > > intended for general use, but rather, for the internal consumption of the > > t

Re: [9fans] Re: _threadmalloc() size>100000000; shouldn't be totalmalloc?

On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 9:01 AM adr wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, adr wrote: > > [snip] > > /sys/src/libthread/lib.c > > > > [...] > > void* > > _threadmalloc(long size, int z) > > { > > void *m; > > > > m = malloc(size); > > if (m == nil) > > sysfatal("Malloc of

Re: [9fans] Aarch64 on labs|9legacy?

On Sun, May 22, 2022, 4:16 PM adr wrote: > Has someone done something with aarch64 on labs|9legacy? > It's called arm64 > > Great. > > Because with this 4 magical words I was supposed to find... what? > Where? What are you talking about? Where is this work on Bell Labs' > plan9 that I could find

Re: [9fans] Aarch64 on labs|9legacy?

re than 4GiB of _physical_ memory. The virtual address space is still limited to 4GiB. - Dan C. On Sunday, May 22, 2022, adr wrote: >> On Sat, 21 May 2022, Dan Cross wrote: >> >>> To answer your original question, no: there is no aarch64 support in >>> either

Re: [9fans] Aarch64 on labs|9legacy?

To answer your original question, no: there is no aarch64 support in either 9legacy or the Bell Labs distribution. - Dan C. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T000c7f7d66260ba3-M8dc571703e5960d0f3c631f5 Delivery

Re: [9fans] void*

On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 9:16 AM adr wrote: > On Sun, 15 May 2022, adr wrote: > > What I mean is if we are going to follow C99 in the use of void*, > > we should allow arithmetic on them. > > Let me be clear, I know that C99 requires the pointer to be a > complete object type to do arithmetic,

Re: [9fans] licence question

On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 10:08 AM ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > On Tuesday, 1 February 2022, at 3:12 PM, Dan Cross wrote: > > This isn't really on-topic for 9fans, but I find this hard to believe. > Linux used the exact same compiler suite, and became wildly

Re: [9fans] licence question

On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 8:10 AM David Leimbach via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > > On Jan 29, 2022, at 8:03 AM, ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > > > > And I believe that the reason why NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD are not as > wide spread as Linux was the lack of a compiler suite

Re: [9fans] v9fs vs mmap (not quite SOLVED)

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:11 AM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > But is it not possible that the FPGA tools don't > > have the same issues with mmap that e.g. Go does? > > 1. Some of the fpga tools are closed-source so I can't check with > confidence that they will never try to use

Re: [9fans] v9fs vs mmap (not quite SOLVED)

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:16 AM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > What, precisely, is your use case? > > As I said, the go cross-compile was just an example task to > test the viability of v9fs. I don't *need* to cross-compile > on linux: the 9pi image, for example, comes with native

Re: [9fans] v9fs vs mmap (not quite SOLVED)

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 6:56 AM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > Skip, did you specify -o cache=mmap when mounting diod service > > for the go build experiment? > > I tried it myself using local diod and cache=mmap. I get a similar > SIGBUS on instruction fetch again. Conclusion: as

Re: [9fans] v9fs vs mmap (not quite SOLVED)

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:52 AM Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > Can anyone suggest other mount options I should tweak? > > I have tried cache=fscache and cache=loose. In both cases I see startling > cases of incoherency: ie reading file X returns contents of file Y (neither > of

Re: [9fans] How to setup wifi on raspberry pi 4

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:38 PM Stuart Morrow wrote: > On 11/08/2021, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > /sys/doc/net/net.pdf > > Heads up: spends alot of time on STREAMS, which are not a part of Plan 9. > > The FQA also links to that paper with no such forewarning. > The mentions

Re: [9fans] Four numbers in /lib/sky/here

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 1:53 PM Anthony Sorace wrote: > There are a few other things which also use that file (e.g. latcmp, the 2e > road(1), gmap (who did that?) my darksky program). I’m wondering if I’m > missing something that uses that fourth number. I certainly can’t rule out > user error.

Re: Posix implementation of Plan 9 cpu(1) (Was: [9fans] Command to set samterm label)

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 1:32 PM Xiao-Yong Jin wrote: > > On Jul 21, 2021, at 12:16 PM, Dan Cross wrote: > > > > Nothing prevents you from invoking u9fs over an SSH connection; one > needn't run it from inetd, and I doubt anyone has in 20 years. > > You are rig

Re: Posix implementation of Plan 9 cpu(1) (Was: [9fans] Command to set samterm label)

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 1:09 PM Xiao-Yong Jin wrote: > > On Jul 21, 2021, at 11:42 AM, Dan Cross wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 12:17 PM Xiao-Yong Jin > wrote: > > > On Jul 21, 2021, at 11:08 AM, Dan Cross wrote: > > > > ssh linuxpc drawterm -

Re: Posix implementation of Plan 9 cpu(1) (Was: [9fans] Command to set samterm label)

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 12:17 PM Xiao-Yong Jin wrote: > > On Jul 21, 2021, at 11:08 AM, Dan Cross wrote: > > > ssh linuxpc drawterm -c srvdev.rc > > > > > > yes it's a lot of back and forth, but ssh only is needed for running > > > the proces

Re: Posix implementation of Plan 9 cpu(1) (Was: [9fans] Command to set samterm label)

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 11:12 AM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > if i want to serve files from a linux, i sometimes run drawterm on the > linux, export stuff to an /srv and then access that from the other > side. > > theoretically you can automate that also from the other side, make > some

Re: [9fans] Transfer of Plan 9 to the Plan 9 Foundation

On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 2:44 PM Anonymous AWK fan via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > > This text was generated by the GPT3 text generator using all licensing > related threads in 9fans as input. > > No it wasn't. > > I'm concerned because only one contributor (Nokia) transferred copyright > of

[9fans] Sad news.

I just got word that Andrey has passed away. :-( I'm sorry, I don't have any further details right now, but wanted to let folks know. - Dan C. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] Jim McKie

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this. How awful! I always thought jmk was a really friendly and approachable scientist and I enjoyed interacting with him. - Dan C. On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:36 PM Charles Forsyth wrote: > I am sorry to say that Jim McKie (jmk) died suddenly on 16 June. >

Re: [9fans] ARM hardware and SATA

Google invests heavily into basic computer science reseach, and Google researchers are well represented at respected conferences and in high impact journals in their subfields. So yes, one can do 'actual "research" projects' at Google. We have an entire research organization doing just that, often

Re: [9fans] ARM hardware and SATA

o; I work on kernels. - Dan C. On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 5:47 PM Juan Cuzmar wrote: > Wow I'm surprised that people are still working on plan9 to > develop things especially in google... If I could aso: what kind > of things you develop with plan9? > > Dan Cross wrote: >

Re: [9fans] ARM hardware and SATA

We had 9legacy running on Intel NUCs at Google for our internal development. It worked well enough, though of course wasn't an ARM based machine. Getting it going was a little hacky, but not too bad. We were using raspberry pi's as terminals. I haven't looked in depth, but I suspect there's

Re: [9fans] Someone made a Wayland compositor based on Rio, Wio

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:24 PM Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > One person's epiphany is another's afterthought. > > (I've been conditioned by Twitter to not read anything longer than 240 > chars. Ditto for responses. I can't speak to points you made later) > It wasn't clear to me that there was a

Re: [9fans] Don't Plan 9 C compiler initialize the rest of member of a?struct?

On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 8:36 PM Kurt H Maier wrote: > On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 08:26:30PM -0400, Jeremy O'Brien wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 1, 2019, at 11:33, Kyohei Kadota wrote: > > > Hi, 9fans. I use 9legacy. > > > > > > About below program, I expected that flags field will initialize to > > > zero

Re: [9fans] acme under plan9port : made to work?

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 11:43 AM Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > i apologise up-front for asking this on 9fans, but, how is acme and > plumber and all it's utilities (including upas) made to work under > non-plan9 systems via plan9port; on say something like linux or even mac > os x? > > do they have

Re: [9fans] upas : without acme : possible?

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 8:45 AM Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > hello, > > is it possible to use "upas" without relying on acme? > it might be uncomfortable (relatively speaking), but is it possible? > Yes. This is quite reasonable. To a first order approximation, `upas` is a mail transfer agent, for

Re: [9fans] zero copy & 9p (was Re: PDP11 (Was: Re: what heavy negativity!)

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 7:58 PM wrote: > > Fundamentally zero-copy requires that the kernel and user process > > share the same virtual address space mapped for the given operation. > > and it is. this doesnt make your point clear. the kernel is always mapped. > Meltdown has shown this to be a

Re: [9fans] PDP11 (Was: Re: what heavy negativity!)

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:24 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > from what i see in linux people have been more than just exploring it, > they've gone absolutely nuts. it makes everything complex, not just > the fast path. > To whom are you responding? Your email is devoid of context, so it is

Re: [9fans] PDP11 (Was: Re: what heavy negativity!)

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 6:25 PM Digby R.S. Tarvin wrote: > Does anyone know what platform Plan9 was initially implemented on? > My understanding is that the earliest experiments involved a VAX, but development quickly shifted to MIPS and 68020-based machines (the "gnot" was, IIRC, a 68020-based

Re: [9fans] Why Plan 9 uses $ifs instead of $IFS?

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Giacomo Tesio wrote: > Also, why NPROC has been left uppercase? :-) I once had a mathematics professor who advised me not to look for rationality or logic in nomenclature. I've found that, since taking this advice to heart, my life is much less

Re: [9fans] Why Plan 9 uses $ifs instead of $IFS?

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Giacomo Tesio wrote: > Out of curiosity, do anybody know why Plan9 designers chose lowercase > variables over uppercase ones? > > At first, given the different conventions between rc and sh (eg $path is an > array, while $PATH is a string), I

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

Eh, not so much anymore. The morlocks have taken over, which is a shame: 9fans used to be one of the best technical mailing lists on the Internet. Those days are long gone. The ankle biters are too numerous now. (Cue requisite flames.) - Dan C. On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:00 PM,

Re: [9fans] gcc not an option for Plan9

On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:54 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 09:42:09PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: Yeah. Or someone who is arguably the biggest problem on the list adding absolutely nothing other than some uninformed, dogmatically driven, rigid meta-commentary

Re: [9fans] doing a native awk port (was Re: Bug in print(2) g verb)

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 2:31 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: should i say the current ot awk source? it's certainly not designed for plan 9. Regardless you are right that it is clearly not worth porting to 'native' Plan 9 libraries or APIs; what, if anything, would be the

Re: [9fans] c++

VisitorFactoryBuilderFactorySingletonDecoratorFactory. On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote: I'm writing Java now, after a long gap, and it's ok. It has its share of annoying aspects, but it's not too bad. Java is a bit like a high-level assembler

Re: [9fans] c++

Personally, I think that all of this language posturing is geekier-than-thou nonsense. Calling C++ or Java a disease? Really? Suggesting that if you use one of those languages you're somehow mentally deficient? Really? Suggesting someone change jobs because they're asked to program in C++?

Re: [9fans] c++

On Nov 22, 2012 9:50 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: i agree with your point. but i think that you the statments you point out are hyperbole. That is fair to an extent. In the big scheme of things, absolutely none of this matters. Whether one programs in Java, C, Go,

Re: [9fans] c++

On Nov 22, 2012 9:56 AM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 22 of November 2012 09:38:06 Dan Cross wrote: In the big scheme of things, absolutely none of this matters. Whether one programs in Java, C, Go, COBOL or 370 assembler doesn't really make any difference; one

Re: [9fans] c++

Nor should you. What she eats is my problem not yours, and it's an incredibly minor problem. Like, only a little more important than worrying about C++ and Java. On Nov 22, 2012 12:33 PM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: dan, I don't care about your children.

Re: [9fans] c++

Thanks for making my point for me. On Nov 22, 2012 12:13 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 09:38:06AM -0500, Dan Cross wrote: Personally, I think that all of this language posturing is geekier-than-thou nonsense. And the rest of this email is wiser-than-thou

Re: [9fans] c++

On Nov 22, 2012 12:43 PM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: Ha! Ever programmed in APL? Don't knock it, to learn APL I had to shift paradigm and it was a very important lesson in my programming education. No doubt. As a learning exercise, such things are great. But I don't know that the brand of

Re: [9fans] 8c - is this leagal?

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Bence Fábián beg...@gmail.com wrote: 8c is for Plan9's C dialect. Look into /sys/doc/ape.ps This was not a useful answer to Steve's question. - Dan C.

Re: [9fans] go forth and ulong no more!

I agree with brucee here about the Go type names: I'd rather see uint64, int64, uint32, int32, etc. usize doesn't bother me much. New C programmers are often confused by size_t being unsigned (even experienced ones at times); this makes it clear. On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Bruce Ellis

Re: [9fans] Kernel panic when allocating a huge memory

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:04:15PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: in modern systems, i believe they mean the same thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging#Terminology Sorry, I didn't know you were talking about Windows NT. I

Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:48:40 -0800 Jack Johnson knapj...@gmail.com wrote: Even with it's faults (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or

Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:17 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: I too find Linux too mainstream: http://i.imgur.com/Wtm16.png Bravo. - Dan C.

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 7:27 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: rc already has non-linear pipelines. but they're not very convienient. And somewhat limited. There's no real concept of 'fanout' of output, for instance (though that's a fairly trivial command, so probably doesn't

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

[Special to Lucio: Email to proxima.alt.za from Google's SMTP servers is failing; it looks like they're listed in rbl.proxima.alt.za.] On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: But as I said, this is not to argument about Go developers' choices: they do as they

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:11 PM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 30 of August 2012 15:35:47 Dan Cross wrote: (...) Your example of running multiple 'grep's in parallel sort of reminded me of this, though it occurs to me that this can probably be done with a command

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Dan Cross cro...@gmail.com wrote: A parallel apply sort of thing could be used with xargs, of course; 'whatever | xargs papply foo' could keep some $n$ of foo's running at the same time. The magic behind 'papply foo `{whatever}' is that it knows how

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:03 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: rejected such system-imposing structure on files in Unix-y type environments since 1969. [...] other threads of execution. Could we do something similar with pipes? I don't know that anyone wants typed file

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:56 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: The thing is that mk doesn't really do anything to set up connections between the commands it runs. it does. the connections are through the file system. No. The order in which commands are run (or if they are run

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:04 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: the haahr/rakitzis es' if makes more sense, even if it's wierder.) Agreed; es would be an interesting starting point for a new shell. es is great input. there are really cool ideas there, but it does seem like a

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Howdy. I am just curious... Here http://9fans.net/archive/2007/11/120 Russ Cox writes he uses bash as his default shell. Does anybody know the reason? Is this for practicality within the linux

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 04:52:34PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote: Or are you oriented towards kiloLOCs of test code to see which features are implemented and provide compatability a la autoconf? Excellent example of a false

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 08:48:39PM +0530, Dan Cross wrote: Wonderful! Please point me to your new programming language so I can have a look? I don't think it would do you any good, since you are apparently unable

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 09:15:35PM +0530, Dan Cross wrote: Oh no, I can't. Please, by all means, point me to whatever it is that you have produced that demonstrates your prowess in this area so that I can learn more. you

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

One last thing: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:50:27PM +0530, Dan Cross wrote: You are conflating bootstrapping the language with the language's build system. The go command is actually quite nice. Also, the go command

Re: [9fans] rc's shortcomings (new subject line)

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:56 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: And rc is not perfect. I've always felt like the 'if not' stuff was a kludge. no, it's certainly not. (i wouldn't call if not a kludge—just ugly. Kludge perhaps in the sense that it seems to be to work around an

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

On Aug 29, 2012 2:14 AM, Jeremy Jackins jeremyjack...@gmail.com wrote: Well, if you could explain a) how it's currently broken, and b) how a 'corrected' version would be useful, others might be more sympathetic to your concerns. From most perspectives, it doesn't appear broken at all; it

[9fans] Stupid troff questions.

Sorry for this, but it seems that 9fans is the best place to ask for troff advice I want to use .2C in ms documents to enter two-column mode. However, this seems to force insertion of a paragraph break space, which I do not want; I can't find any documentation on how to turn that off, and

Re: [9fans] Governance question???

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:03 AM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: There are towns without restaurants and pubs in America? Yes. Americans tend to have bars, rather than pubs. Forsyth's characterization of Atlanta is largely correct, but his conclusion (to avoid) is incorrect. Atlanta has

Re: [9fans] Regarding 9p based protocols message framing

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Yaroslav yari...@gmail.com wrote:  Why was I puzzled: because as a non Plan9 user / developer, I usually think of the underlaying transport technology (be it sockets or 9p) as a stream of bytes without explicit framing. As I understand, 9P itself is designed

Re: [9fans] Regarding 9p based protocols message framing

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Ciprian Dorin Craciun ciprian.crac...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 14:32, Dan Cross cro...@gmail.com wrote: 9P itself is not a stream-oriented protocol, nor is it what one would generally call, 'transport technology.'    I would beg to differ

Re: [9fans] 9vx instability

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:32 PM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: /lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating them into hitler-speeches. It's also, frankly, offensive.

Re: [9fans] 9vx instability

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2011, Dan Cross wrote: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:32 PM,  cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: /lib/mainkampf is part of an ongoing project to make venti sha-1 hashes easy to remember by translating them

Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 5:48 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: I don't want to drag out the discussion, but: 1. Nixie is pretty much generic these days. Wikipedia even calls it a genericised trademark. 2. Nixies are also Germanic water spirits. I think we're good :) (I don't want to

Re: [9fans] Plan9 development

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Gary V. Vaughan g...@vaughan.pe wrote: You can either try to remember what all of those are, or use something like autoconf to probe for known bugs, and gnulib to plug them, or you can link against a shim library like GNU libposix which will do all of that

Re: [9fans] Is this the same Russ Cox we know here?

Yes. On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: Hmmm... is this Limbo/Newsqueak/Alef inspired? http://golang.org -joe

Re: [9fans] Is this the same Russ Cox we know here?

Not yet. There's an 8g, so it should (in principle) be portable. But it requires user-mode support for setting LDTs. But I'm really not any sort of expert at all, just an interested observer. Maybe Rob or Russ will poke in and say something. On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:00 PM, andrey mirtchovski

Re: [9fans] nvram

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: this change as worked well on my personal system and at coraid for the past 6 months.  it just works.  even on hitherto unknown controllers like the orion. Hmm. A few years ago, I ran into a similar problem and added

Re: [9fans] new usb stack and implicit timeouts

Pardon me if this is totally ignorant, but can't we just have a ctl message to control a timeout, which applications may then set on their own? On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Gorka Guardiolapau...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Francisco J Ballesterosn...@lsub.org wrote: On

Re: [9fans] dcp - a deep copy script, better than dircp

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Ethan Grammatikidiseeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: Sorry if that was a bit harsh, but I've had far too much 'advice' to 'just do this easy little thing'... Computers are supposed to supplement the brain, to help, not require more (and in some cases quite

Re: [9fans] new usb stack and implicit timeouts

fd = open(/some/ctl, OWRITE); write(fd, timeout LONG_ENOUGH, length); close(fd); On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Lyndon Nerenberglyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: I am unsure I would remove timeouts even from bulk endpoints. It is true that some devices (the usb/serial for example) need to read for an

Re: [9fans] dcp - a deep copy script, better than dircp

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 6:56 PM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: i know you can do it with du, but it seems a bit cat -nish to me. for comparison: This was why I wrote 'walk' a few years ago; du is the disk usage tool, not a general file walker. - Dan C.

Re: [9fans] Intel GMA950 video

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Lyndon Nerenberglyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: Anybody running a terminal with a GMA950 chipset? I need to verify it works before I plunk down money on some new terminal hardware. VESA support is fine, just as long as rio us usable on it. The Wiki shows i950 VESA

Re: [9fans] intel gma 950 graphics

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 1:54 PM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: to be precise, this is not 950 graphics: 0.2.0:  vid  03.00.00 8086/2772  10 0:fe98 524288 1:cc01 16 2:e008 268435456 3:fe94 262144        Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Device Hmm,

Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:01 AM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: there are other sound models, it would be nice to design ac97's interface in such a way that it can work with other sound models. Years ago, I suggested building a generic audio layer into the kernel and plugging

Re: [9fans] troff and ps related

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Rudolf Sykorarudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: But now (from the answers to my questions about boxes, tables) I am becoming less enthusiastic. Can anybody comment on this? Do you think that troff is really dead? Like most things in life, the answer is an emphatic,

Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 12:27 PM, erik quanstromquans...@coraid.com wrote: you say I think, Google did not choose Plan 9 due lack of device drivers, poor IPv6 support and confusing redundant fragment of code lurking around in   /sys/boot or 9load, but a compared with Linux a compact, clean and

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