Re: [9fans] Changelogs Patches?

2009-01-20 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 18:36 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: Got it. However, I'm still not fully convinced there's a definite edge one way or the other. Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to defend ZFS (I don't think it needs defending, anyway) but rather I'm trying to test my mental

Re: [9fans] import and p9p

2009-01-20 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 20:47 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: i apologize for the silly question, but my p9p-fu is quite weak. is the reason that plan 9 import is not part of p9p other than it was not needed? (of course the ssh-based import is included, but i believe that is something else

Re: [9fans] Quick question on fossil

2009-01-13 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 11:06 -0800, Russ Cox wrote: Super.active is the block number of a VtDirType block: a block containing a few (I think 3) VtEntry structs. Turns out there's one extra level of indirection there, but your response was exactly what I needed to get me unstuck. Thanks! cd

[9fans] Quick question on fossil

2009-01-12 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Hi! I'm trying to read up on fossil implementation so that I can sustain an intelligent conversation with Andrey ;-) Now, the paper Fossil, an Archival File Server is pretty good, but here's one simple question that I can't find an answer to: there's a pointer to the root of the filesystem block

Re: [9fans] venti

2009-01-09 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 15:11 -0500, Dave Eckhardt wrote: A check could be put in by having venti put some sort of lock somewhere on the disk. But that would lead to problems if venti doesn't shut down properly: venti would be gone but the lock would still be there. Post an (ignored)

[9fans] two quick questions on syscalls

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Hi! 1. are the ones starting from underscore totally deprecated? 2. what's the use for sysr1? Thanks, Roman.

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 07:36 -0800, ron minnich wrote: If you want what a jail does, I still think there are better ways on ARM, esp. watching this conversation: - something the equivalent of user mode linux This one sounds like a waste for a system that is so close to supporting proper jailing

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 08:55 -0800, ron minnich wrote: The underlying assumption of motivation for this discussion is that jailing (or whatever we want to call it) is somehow a good thing. Given that every CPU we care about comes with virtualization hardware, I just can't see the point of jails

Re: [9fans] RFNOMNT and/or least privilege

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 01:24 -0500, Dave Eckhardt wrote: RFNOMNT, like everything in Plan 9, was put in because someone needed to use it, not as a purely academic exercise in adding features. Here is something which either I've misunderstood or is harder than I'd like. [...] What does

Re: [9fans] RFNOMNT and/or least privilege

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 19:57 +, Charles Forsyth wrote: It now seems, that if your process has a read/write access to a channel capable of speaking 9P not letting it mount that channel really doesn't accomplish much: whatever messages kernel would send on your behalf, you can send

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 09:17 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: i think we can skip the sematic arguments and the questions about rooting. let's go directly to how would you unify the big-n Namespace in a way that's clearly better? At this point: I don't know. :-( The discussion was tremendously

Re: [9fans] Why do we need syspipe() ?

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 11:00 +, roger peppe wrote: i've sometimes thought that the trick used by #d etc could be made more transparent by providing a genuine capability service for fds, in the form of a system call, for instance getfdcap(int fd, char *buf, int len) then instead of

Re: [9fans] Why do we need syspipe() ?

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 18:15 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: Although in the alternative universe I can see how implementing #X as *channels* capable of 9P messages, could enable things like mounting them on external hosts and letting these hosts manipulate physical devices attached to yours

Re: [9fans] Why do we need syspipe() ?

2009-01-08 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 18:48 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: Although in the alternative universe I can see how implementing #X as *channels* capable of 9P messages, could enable things like mounting them on external hosts and letting these hosts manipulate physical devices attached to

Re: [9fans] Changelogs Patches?

2009-01-07 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 18:44 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: a big difference between the decisions is in data integrety. it's much easier to break a fs that rewrites than it is a worm-based fs. True. But there's a grey area here: an FS that *never* rewrites live blocks, but can reclaim

Re: [9fans] Format for relocatable objects

2009-01-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 15:09 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: It would be a shame (but no disaster) if Binutil's nm and other tools could not at least display native Plan 9 intermediate files. I need to know or decide how far to take this exercise. why would that be advantagous on plan 9?

Re: [9fans] Format for relocatable objects

2009-01-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 17:54 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 15:09 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: It would be a shame (but no disaster) if Binutil's nm and other tools could not at least display native Plan 9 intermediate files. I need to know or decide how far to take

Re: [9fans] Why do we need syspipe() ?

2009-01-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 20:37 +, Charles Forsyth wrote: This just means that these services need to be mounted at the canonical there is no point binding #a or #D into the name space. they can be used only locally and might as well be accessed directly. they might be considered similar to

Re: [9fans] Changelogs Patches?

2009-01-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 11:19 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: very interesting post. indeed. I actually need some time to digest it ;-) this is an example of the design decision difference between fossil/venti and zfs: venti commits storage permanently and everything becomes a snapshot, while

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 23:01 -0800, Russ Cox wrote: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: [complaint about # names] Please let me know what kind of keywords or emoticons I am supposed to include in my emails to indicate that they are *not* complaints

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sun, 2009-01-04 at 00:27 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: Usign #X means doing a mount (you are attaching to the root of the driver's tree). You're right, of course. But it feels like a very special mount if one can refer to files served by the drivers directly through: '#X/bla-bla'.

Re: [9fans] RFNOMNT

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 23:08 -0800, Russ Cox wrote: The let's submit a patch and fix it talk is scary. Russ, with all due respect, life gets unnecessarily complicated when on one hand whenever I suggest something for discussion there's always a member of this list (you included) who asks me to

Re: [9fans] sendfd() on native Plan 9?

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sun, 2009-01-04 at 08:43 +0200, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: Constructing a namespace without RFNOMNT that does not have #s (say) bound is not really securing #s (and its other consumers) against that namespace's actions. Constructing a namespace with RFNOMNT and without #s bound does

Re: [9fans] sendfd() on native Plan 9?

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sun, 2009-01-04 at 20:23 +0200, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: i haven't even seen what i think is a compelling argument for sendfd yet you're trying to argue for second-order problems with a particular application of sendfd. Sendfd() seems to me a somewhat more carefully controlled

Re: [9fans] sendfd() on native Plan 9?

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 18:57 -0500, Nathaniel W Filardo wrote: That is, if I cannot refer to an object in my namespace and no server I can refer to will grant access, then I have achieved isolation of that object and any process running in my namespace. That sounds like a reasonable

Re: [9fans] Changelogs Patches?

2009-01-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sun, 2009-01-04 at 07:03 +0900, sqweek wrote: On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: Personally, though, I'd say that the usefulness of the dump would be greatly improved if one had an ability to do ad-hoc archival snapshots AND assigning tags, not only

Re: [9fans] sendfd() on native Plan 9?

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
[ I took a liberty to merge two of your emails together for the ease of commenting ] On Thu, 2009-01-01 at 18:57 -0500, Nathaniel W Filardo wrote: That is, the claim that a process spawned without access to your home directory cannot get it is flawed if that process runs as your user. (Even

Re: [9fans] vmware fusion - plan9 snarf issue

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 10:21 -0800, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: snarf doesnt work properly in plan9 on vmware fusion 2.0 for mac. from what i found this seems to be a known issue. is there any fix available? no; someone needs to write a new version of the vmware tools that works with the

[9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Guys, while replying to Nathaniel's post it dawned on me that something like this: open(#c/cons, OWRITE|OCEXEC); completely breaks the paradigm of namespaces. IOW, if I wanted to construct a namespace with a specially crafted server offering /dev/cons, the above would easily break out of

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 16:46 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: while replying to Nathaniel's post it dawned on me that something like this: open(#c/cons, OWRITE|OCEXEC); completely breaks the paradigm of namespaces. IOW, if I wanted to construct a namespace with a specially crafted

Re: [9fans] sendfd() on native Plan 9?

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 16:41 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: there's also nothing preventing one from implementing a filtering fs that restricts the directories available in /proc. True. But there are two problems with a filtering fs: 1. Accessing #p would bypass the fs 100% 2. For things like

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 17:03 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: Did you see the example I provided in the original email? rfork m is *exactly* RFNOMNT. And it doesn't seem to work for one simple reason: RFNOMNT doesn't restrict bind(2). these are exceptions. from port/chan.c: case

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 23:46 +0100, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: Isn't it too restrictive, eg, not allowing you to create pipes? It depends. The point, however, is that NOT allowing to restrict *all* attaches seem far more restrictive. ;-) Besides, my main concern is not about restricting at

[9fans] Why do we need syspipe() ?

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
I'm confused. Is there any part of syspipe() that can NOT be done from userspace? Why does it have to be a syscall? Thanks, Roman. P.S. I would also argue that sysdup() would seem to be superfluous if more feature-rich devdup was available.

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 17:57 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: And finally, I'd say having these exceptions is a mistake. Unless, there's a really good reason, they break the paradigm of RFNOMNT quite needlessly without even a hint of a benefit. so, it's likely that RFNOMNT was added and to

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 15:15 -0800, Russ Cox wrote: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 2:57 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: And finally, I'd say having these exceptions is a mistake. Unless, there's a really good reason, they break the paradigm of RFNOMNT quite needlessly without even a

Re: [9fans] directly opening Plan9 devices

2009-01-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 23:21 +0100, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: Usign #X means doing a mount (you are attaching to the root of the driver's tree). You're right, of course. But it feels like a very special mount if one can refer to files served by the drivers directly through: '#X/bla-bla'.

Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND

2008-12-20 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 20:18 +, Charles Forsyth wrote: And nobody yet cared to give a concrete explanation of why it might be a bad idea. what's the application you've got in mind? Legacy ones :-( At the moment -- they are homegrown databases. And yes, as Erik pointed out -- they look

Re: [9fans] web interface to sources seems to be down

2008-12-12 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 10:16 +0500, Roman Zhukov wrote: http://9fans.net/archive/2008/11/891 Aha! I now remember seeing that one. But since its been more than 2 weeks -- I guess the question is, whether web interface to sources has any chance of recovering. Thanks, Roman.

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter

2008-12-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2008-12-04 at 02:39 -0500, Dave Eckhardt wrote: P.S. I've seen this disbelief in the fact that automoter + NFS actually can be really convenient mostly come from Linux people. Perspective depends on experience. AFS has its warts, but, trust me, if you've used it for a while, you

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter in Plan9?

2008-12-02 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Hi, Russ! Firs of all -- thank a lot for answering all of my question in a very detailed manner. I really do appreciate it! Now, if you don't mind, I still have just one question left: On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 16:55 -0800, Russ Cox wrote: That's very similar to what I referred to as a synthetic

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter in Plan9?

2008-12-02 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 13:31 -0500, Nathaniel W Filardo wrote: Namespaces form a large part of the security component of the Plan 9 model, and (AFAICT) cross-namespace work is underinvestigated It would be, in fact, a fair answer. since it starts to look a lot like something that could

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter

2008-12-02 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 14:29 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: i would think that either you want encapsulation or you don't. see-through encapsulation would seem to me to be a contradiction in terms. Thanks for the feedback. Lets see if you change your mind after the explanation given

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter in Plan9?

2008-12-02 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 21:05 +0100, hiro wrote: I still don't understand what kind of feature you are missing. Could it be that you just want a naming convention for your mount places? Writable '#p/id/ns' Thanks, Roman. P.S. Unless somebody tells me that it is a bad idea with the explanation

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter in Plan9?

2008-12-02 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 19:07 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: None of these questions are any different in this context than if there was simply some other process sharing the name space and doing the same manipulations. currently one can prevent external changes to a namespace by creating

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter

2008-12-02 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 16:35 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: nope. sorry. i would hate to see such a botch in plan 9. if you want to distribute load by having multiple fs, then it should be done so that the client wouldn't know or care that any distribution is going on. I think

Re: [9fans] How to implement a moral equivalent of automounter in Plan9?

2008-12-01 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 10:17 -0800, ron minnich wrote: But this need for an automounter has not really existed for probably 17 years or so ... NFS servers are pretty reliable in many cases. It is interesting to see the use case for automoiuters change. Right. I'm actually too young to be able

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 != Inferno... right?

2008-11-20 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 17:55 +, Brian L. Stuart wrote: That's partly because there's a separate Inferno list. And you're right that they're not the same, but are closely related. The original Inferno kernel was based on (and used code from, I think) the Plan 9 kernel that was current at

[9fans] fd2path and devsrv

2008-11-19 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Hi Guys, I was rereading selected places of Rob's Getting Dot-Dot Right paper and it suddenly occurred to me that the example he provides there is something that I have always wanted to have. Here it is: % cat /proc/125099/ns . mount -c /net/il/134/data /mnt/term cd

Re: [9fans] fd2path and devsrv

2008-11-19 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 20:36 +0100, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: The point is that you need a way for the chan to know how to reach the file server. That is a larger point here, indeed. However, my question was a simpler one: is there any reason to show '#s/sutff' at all? Could I ever be

Re: [9fans] fd2path and devsrv

2008-11-19 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On 11/19/08 17:41, erik quanstrom wrote: Ok, I can understand why devproc.c does it: it is easy to discover the name of the actual Chan if you know the node in /srv: fd = open(#s/stuff, OREAD); fd2chan(fd, buf, sizeof(buf)); close(fd); but not the other way around. Buit why ns(1)

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-12 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 09:47 -0800, ron minnich wrote: The way I see it: if you look past stalessness (taken care of in WebNFS and NFS4) eagerness to do proper caching and on-the-wire messages there are, actually, quite a few similarities between the two: FH is a moral equivalent of a

Re: [9fans] Amazon EC2?

2008-11-11 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 16:15 -0900, Jack Johnson wrote: Has anyone tried injecting a Plan 9 instance into the new Amazon cloud? http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/ Amazon prescreen the kernel that you can use there, but! As was suggested by Richard Miller, if Plan9 can be a target of kexec -- the sky

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-11 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 09:45 +0100, Fco. J. Ballesteros wrote: For this we use local Infernos at machines serving resources, using a dav server to provide the built name space to the native host systems. Not for devices, but works for most other things. Devices can be done by adapting their

Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal

2008-11-10 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 01:55 +0900, sqweek wrote: On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only question is -- where such a note is supposed to be sent to? Can someone, please, educate me on the moral equivalent of process groups, sessions

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-10 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 15:17 +0900, sqweek wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Steve Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about if you start a page with a list of the 9p file servers you know of, say on the plan9 wiki, and then email 9fans

Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal

2008-11-10 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 14:49 -0800, ron minnich wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least in case of cpu(1) the magic is a bit perverse and quite unlike the rest of the system. The way notes are managed make a local end of a cpu(1) jump

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-10 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 11:26 +, Steve Simon wrote: How about if you start a page with a list of the 9p file servers you know of, say on the plan9 wiki, and then email 9fans asking them to add any that you have missed? That's the plan! I can see how such a thing might be a useful resource

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-10 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 23:38 +, C H Forsyth wrote: And even we we stick with the resources as regular files approach on the client you're stuck with mostly POSIX environment + locking (+caching). POSIX means symlink(2) and mknod(2) no, because (unless i've misunderstood) they are

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-10 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 00:14 +, Charles Forsyth wrote: But wouldn't you agree that files kept on a remote POSIX file system is an important and common class of remotes resources for which we don't quite have a consensus on how to use 9P? yes, but both your examples are things of purely

Re: [9fans] Quick question on stopping a process that waits for IO

2008-11-07 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
erik quanstrom wrote: How? If there's a stop message already written to /proc/n/ctl. Once that is done, the process is guaranteed to be in 2 states and those states only: continue waiting for the I/O, being actually Stopped. Both of the don't let the scheduler take it to the runqueue.

[9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-07 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Guys, do we have something like this: http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems for 9P? At this point I don't even care what OS these servers run under I just need the most comprehensive list of every possible kind of a resource that can be shared/served using 9P. Thanks,

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-07 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 22:38 +, C H Forsyth wrote: of course, that's just the protocol, and to show the larger idea of the representation of things by name spaces (instead of ioctls and special system calls) would have to include section 3 (devices). it's fairly pervasive. Sure. But

Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?

2008-11-07 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 14:31 -0800, ron minnich wrote: FUSE won. It's easy, it works, and it has cross-platform support (macos/linux). It certainly looks that way. It also certainly looks like I have to study it. Do you guys have any good pointers and/or wisdom in that department? I'd be happy

Re: [9fans] on a slightly more fun note

2008-11-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2008-11-06 at 06:54 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: So how many cores is that for each member of the Plan 9 community? :-) On a slightly more serious note, would it be terribly naive to guess that there would be more cores running Plan 9 in that machine than there are throughout

Re: [9fans] Questions on notes

2008-11-04 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 18:48 +, Brian L. Stuart wrote: Frankly, I was trying to see whether an external process reading on somebody else's /proc/n/note would make any sense. One thing that I wanted to implement was a note thief process that would constantly read on a target's

Re: [9fans] Questions on notes

2008-11-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 08:03 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: what is the point of reading /proc/n/ note for anything but a stopped/borken process? or a process already in a note handler? Could you elaborate, please? Do you mean that if the process enters its note handler, then the sure fire

Re: [9fans] plan9port lacks exportfs server

2008-11-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 01:15 +0100, Enrico Weigelt wrote: * Roman Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Besides the fact that I'm not making binary packages at all, splitted / small sources make packaging a lot easier. So let me get this straight: you're trying to solve a problem

Re: [9fans] plan9port lacks exportfs server

2008-11-03 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
[I believe we should go off-line if you're interested in continuing this discussion, since it has very little to do with plan9port at this point. I'll reply to the portion that has relevance on the list here, and will reply to the rest of your email privately] On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 01:15 +0100,

Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal

2008-10-22 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:28 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: rio does provide most everything one would need for a text-mode interface. unfortunately, you can't currently tail -f /dev/text. perhaps such a change would be easier and more general That's a very good point! It hadn't occurred to me

Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal

2008-10-22 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 10:54 -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote: This has one or two complications. There is no way to interrupt or kill the foreground process. Instead, ctrl-c interrupts 9vx itself. chris, one of the nice things about the Plan 9 graphics system is that rio is in no way

Re: [9fans] plan9port lacks exportfs server

2008-10-22 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sat, 2008-10-18 at 10:20 -0700, Russ Cox wrote: Hence the question -- would you be in favor of continue adding things as needed. And if so, what kind of of groundwork would you expect from the contributors? Usually it is as simple as adding it to your own tree, adapting the mkfile,

Re: [9fans] several things

2008-10-18 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 08:17 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: ; mntgen a ; bind /env a/env ; bind /bin a/bin ; bind /proc a/proc ; bind a / ; ns consider it a security feature. Be it as it may, I still can't quite follow why *manual* pruning of the entries

Re: [9fans] plan9port lacks exportfs server

2008-10-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Hi Russ! First of all -- thanks a lot for answering. On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 09:24 -0700, Russ Cox wrote: somehow it dawned on me that plan9port lacks an application to serve a local filesystem over 9P. Is this on purpose? Am I missing something fundamental that would allow for a moral

Re: [9fans] mounting stdin using 9pfuse

2008-10-06 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 09:31 -0700, Russ Cox wrote: it appears that I'm missing something fundamental in how 9pfuse (the one written by Russ) works when it is given - as an address. The source looks like it should be simply using stdin for R/W instead of dialing out the connection first,

Re: [9fans] a question on style

2008-08-01 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 15:02 -0700, ron minnich wrote: OK, am I just out of date or is there a real reason for linker sets?This question just came up in linuxbios v3 and I am wondering if I am a stubborn old coot (likely) or if there really is merit to my dislike of linker sets. I tend to

Re: [9fans] a question on style

2008-08-01 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 06:06 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: Now, on the other hand, I guess kernel is different though. Isn't it supposed to be one huge piece of magic to begin with? ;-) it's supposed to be neither. Yeah, but Ron was talking 'bout that kernel from Scandinavia, right?

Re: [9fans] sources.cs.bell-labs.com

2008-07-30 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Hi On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 12:51 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello Access to sources is anonymous since a couple of years (try 9fs sources), Thanks!!! mount -n solved my issue 100%. you only need an account if you're going to write in sources (contrib/). I think if you want an account

Re: [9fans] sources.cs.bell-labs.com

2008-07-30 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 12:51 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello Access to sources is anonymous since a couple of years (try 9fs sources) Although, on a second though, if sources.cs.bell-labs.com doesn't require authentication it probably should reply with Rerror to a Tauth message. And it

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 13:35 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:05PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: It is slightly depressing to think that the situation has not really changed since EWD wrote this in 1975. It will take some young whippersnapper of a Dijkstra or

Re: [9fans] mmap

2008-07-30 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 17:29 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared library support most likely will require special kernel support. What aspect of shared libraries are you aching

Re: [9fans] mmap

2008-07-30 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 12:28 -0400, Venkatesh Srinivas wrote: As far as interfaces go, mmap() is pretty tragic - the underlying translation structures can express more interesting things, some of which are even worth doing. I can't agree more. The way I look at it is that mmap() seems to be the

Re: [9fans] mmap

2008-07-29 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
ron minnich wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you can't make the assumption that a file is local in *ix, either. in fact, for the last 20 years, every program run on a sunos/solaris machine has used mmap for the exec. mmap() is

Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD

2008-07-29 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
ron minnich wrote: more useless crap from memory: the actual correct usage is //GO.SYSIN DD * but of course the * would make things messy. See this and realize this stuff is still being taught! http://www.coba.unt.edu/itds/courses/bcis3690/bcis3690.ht So... for the dense ones (like myself),

Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD

2008-07-29 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
Charles Forsyth wrote: JCL == Java Control Language? the Job Control Language for System/360 Yeah, I kind of knew that ;-) I was trying to come up with the best joke I could. If this is not it, I have no clue what could be funny about JCL ;-) bundles are implemented by here

Re: [9fans] 9vx and local file systems

2008-07-18 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 15:00 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: my inclination would be to give 9vx a proper ethernet device, but that idea has been discussed already. I was about to ask this very question (and say THANK YOU to Russ for another awesome piece of software), but now that you've

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

2008-07-17 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 10:07 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: I could imagine that databases use mmap() havily it's a little mystery for me why they would do that since it's slower (or ought to be), slower compared to what? I'd expect the biggest slowdown for read()/write() be not the price

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

2008-07-17 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 22:09 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 18:28 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: coming as no suprise, the pc port of plan 9 does work just fine with 8 cores. mpls; cat /dev/sysstat 0 14271 21350133991116

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

2008-07-16 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 18:28 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: coming as no suprise, the pc port of plan 9 does work just fine with 8 cores. mpls; cat /dev/sysstat 0 14271 21350133991116 0 0 0 99 0 Looking at

Re: [9fans] Isnt it time we have the next bay area meeting?

2008-06-01 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 15:03 -0700, Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan wrote: hi, it has been a long time since we met. any plans to have our next Plan9 Bay Area Users Group Meeting? The sooner the better, I hope! Thanks, Roman.

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