Re: [9fans] USB HDD connection problem
There is more: I don't have a usbdisk manpage. '%man usbdisk' complains that its not there, but if i do a '%lookman usbdisk', the manpage is listed as a hit, so it must be in the search index. My 'usb/disk' command doesn't have -f and -l parameters at all. I downloaded the installation ISO file on the 4th of june. Do you know something about it? Both 'usb/usbd' and '/boot/usbd' complain about the same (busy devices), and the rest of the commands simply doesnt find anything in '/dev'. So, I cannot try the example in the (nonexistent) usbdisk manpage, not to mention the nonexistent -f and -l parameters... Can you help me? Greetings: Béla 2009/8/6 Bela Valek bval...@gmail.com: Forgot to mention, I tried to start /boot/usbd manually, i got error messages, it said that the epX.Y and port numbers are busy or something (i dont have the exact error message here, sorry). 2009/8/5 Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org: It seems you dont have usbd running. El 05/08/2009, a las 17:51, bval...@gmail.com escribió: Hi, I have a problem with connecting USB HDD. When i plug it in, i get this error message: /boot/usbd: /dev/usb/ep5.0: port 8: opendev: can't open endpoint /dev/usb/ep7.0: '/dev/usb' file does not exist I get this after several other tries too, only the ep-number and the port are varied. - usb/disk gives this: usb/disk: /dev/usb: no devs - usbfat: writes: mount: can't open /srv/usb: '/srv/usb' file does not exist cannot mount /srv/usb The USB mouse works. Greetings: Béla [/mail/box/nemo/msgs/200908/45693]
Re: [9fans] 9base-3
2009/8/7 Roman Shaposhnik r...@sun.com: On Aug 6, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Anselm R Garbe wrote: Hi there, I revived the 9base project which was asleep for nearly 3 years som days ago and created a new version based on Russ' plan9port from 20090731. You can download it from: http://code.suckless.org/dl/tools/9base-3.tar.gz its project page can be found at: http://tools.suckless.org/9base and you can also clone it using mercurial as follow: hg clone http://hg.suckless.org/9base So, is this just a slimmer version of plan9port? It's just yacc, rc and several shell commands for scripting, so it can be used if you prefer a plan 9 userland when writing shell scripts. Also 9base can be build using posix make(1). Initially I created it because we wrote several shell scripts for wmii (http://wmii.suckless.org), the reason for reviving it is basically werc (http://werc.cat-v.org). I simply didn't want to install full featured plan9port on a server to just run werc, 9base is ideal in such cases. It's just 35kSLOC (in contrast to the 500+kSLOC of plan9port), hence smaller than bash for instance, but including all dependencies. All kudos go to Russ for his excellent plan9port work though. Kind regards, Anselm
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Anthony Soraceano...@gmail.com wrote: that was for 2nd edition. it's now horribly outdated. it is also only available under an older, for-pay license that i'm not sure it's actually possible to buy any more. you don't actually want that set unless you're doing archeology. I was under the impression that it was a sort of evaluation thing, and then I guess you bought the license which gave you source and other stuff. I'm probably wrong. And yes, I basically am doing archaeology--I don't expect much, I just want to poke around at the old system John -- Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing -- Rob Pike
Re: [9fans] binary sprint format
On Aug 6, 7:31Â pm, a.vera...@tecmav.com (Adriano Verardo) wrote:
erik quanstrom wrote:
i believe you need to update your libc.h. Â you need pragmas for
the b format, which were added 2007/0108.
- erik
I'm using a distribution downloaded about 2 months ago. The machine has
been installed from scratch.
perhaps you have not included everything necessary?
; cat fmtb.c
#include u.h
#include libc.h
void
main(void)
{
  print(%b\n, 16);
  exits();
}
; 8c -FVTw fmtb.c 8l fmtb.8 8.out
1
- erik
Your example works on my machine too.
What could be the reason why 8c complains about sprint(buf, %b, 16) in
a driver whose includes are:
#include u.h
#include ../port/lib.h
#include mem.h
#include dat.h
#include fns.h
Am I using them in a wrong way ?
adriano
uhm ... libc.h
[9fans] Acme Configuration
Other than a script to start acme with the -a option, is there some way to configure the start up option on Acme? I am thinking of the equivalent of a .exrc file or the like? Aaron W. Hsu -- Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. -- C. S. Lewis
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
...by the curmudgeonly 9fans... For those who follow British comedy: Father Jack, my alter ego! Others may find this enlightening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHiDhERvJ4I -Steve
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
As Anthony says it is very very old, but I might be fun if you had the time on your hands. The 2nd edition books/cdrom are nolonger available but you might find a set seccond hand (abebooks.com etc). The floppys are here: /n/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/ I found a complete mirror of the old 2nd edition site and I think uriel has copied it to cat-v.org. You will need 16Mb to install and 8Mb to run a terminal though It will work at 640x480x1 resolution. The 4th edition should run on a 486, though you will need (say) 128Mb of ram - much more if you want to recompile gs(1). -Steve
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:37 AM, Aaron W. Hsu wrote: Other than a script to start acme with the -a option, is there some way to configure the start up option on Acme? I am thinking of the equivalent of a .exrc file or the like? Generally you set it up the way you like, then run Dump. This creates a file acme.dump in your home directory. Then you can run acme -l acme.dump and it will restore itself to those settings, which are basically the frames, what files are open and what fonts you're using. You can also edit that file and dink around with it. By default I think rio runs acme with -l lib/acme.dump, but you can certainly have as many of these around as you'd like. — Daniel Lyons
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
By default I think rio runs acme with -l lib/acme.dump, but you can certainly have as many of these around as you'd like. this is controlled by lib/profile, rather than rio. - erik
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
You should be able to hack /sys/src/cmd/init.c to make it start whatever you want after booting, based on init(8), but I haven't tried it. The man page says it prompts for a password on the cpu server, but that doesn't happen; the source has a pass function but it's not called anywhere. it actually says this On a CPU server, init requires the machine's password to be supplied before starting rc on the console. it can be gotten from nvram (fake nvram on pcs) or from the console. i'm sure the reason you weren't asked for a password was that you have a usable fake nvram. this doesn't lock the console, however. it prevents the machine from booting. - erik
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
The 4th edition should run on a 486, though you will need (say) 128Mb of ram - much more if you want to recompile gs(1). i got a couple of 64mb via terminals a few years ago. they were fine for normal work, compiling the kernel, even with the giant myricom driver, even with 64mb. cpu(1) plays its traditional role with that terminal. - erik
Re: [9fans] USB HDD connection problem
On Fri Aug 7 02:53:14 EDT 2009, bval...@gmail.com wrote: There is more: I don't have a usbdisk manpage. '%man usbdisk' complains that its not there, but if i do a '%lookman usbdisk', the manpage is listed as a hit, so it must be in the search index. [...] - usb/disk gives this: usb/disk: /dev/usb: no devs - usbfat: writes: mount: can't open /srv/usb: '/srv/usb' file does not exist cannot mount /srv/usb The USB mouse works. hmm. if the usb mouse works, yet plan 9 is not running usb/usbd (have you checked), it may be that your bios has put your usb in legacy mode and either won't or hasn't been asked to let go. if you are running usbd and usb/kb, then this could happen if you are mixing #U and tools for #U (the old usb device) and #u and tools for #u. your man page problem sounds like you've damaged your local fs. consider a pull to update. - erik
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Steve Simonst...@quintile.net wrote: As Anthony says it is very very old, but I might be fun if you had the time on your hands. The 2nd edition books/cdrom are nolonger available but you might find a set seccond hand (abebooks.com etc). The floppys are here: /n/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/ I found a complete mirror of the old 2nd edition site and I think uriel has copied it to cat-v.org. Yes, you can find a mirror of the 2nd ed site at http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/2nd_edition/plan9.att.com/ And the floppy is available at http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/2nd_edition/plan9.att.com/pcdist/ but I have not tested it, if you do I would love to hear about it. Enjoy uriel You will need 16Mb to install and 8Mb to run a terminal though It will work at 640x480x1 resolution. The 4th edition should run on a 486, though you will need (say) 128Mb of ram - much more if you want to recompile gs(1). -Steve
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:33:18 +0100 Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: I cannot imageine the senario where random people will have access to the cpu/auth/file server's consoles. It just doesn't happen if you are serious about security. However if you want to protect your console against your friends I wrote a script to do it /n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/conslock you may also want to look at screenlock(1) Incidentially I may use this at home to protect my servers console against my 2 year old who rather likes keyboards, though this is a different type of security. -Steve Speaking of family, I'd imagine a little password protection might go a long way to keeping the peace in many families. Respect for siblings' property isn't exactly hard-wired into human nature, is it? -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:50:33 -0400 Anthony Sorace ano...@gmail.com wrote: this is silly. the philosophy has been explained. several people have given lots of real world usage where it holds up just fine. i'd go as far as to say the vast majority of plan9 installations are in such environments. Oh God, not the everyday examples == proof argument, PLEASE. The common case in the present time is that people EXPECT server terminals to be password protected so they're not likely to bother looking. Suppose it gets to be common knowlege that server terminals are rarely password-protected. Now suppose co-lo host X is well-known for hosting a large number of Plan 9 machines -- at the rate interest in Plan 9 is growing this could happen in only a year or two from now. Now please stretch your imagination to include Frank. Frank is a contractor, called in to perform some maintenance in X's cages. Frank is bored out of his skull. His wife hasn't left him (yet), but there's no love left nor any real hate either; just cold apathy. His workday has been flat-dull so far, he's had a succession of extremely tedious jobs and now he has another one. Frank sees a lot of Plan 9 machines next to him. Password cracking is time-consuming and potentially very boring, but few Plan 9 machines have one. Frank is on a schedule and already bored out of his skull, and best of all, if he tampers no-one will ever know it wasn't a remote exploit! Now here's the point. I and a billion other people HAVE MORE FUN THINGS TO DO THAN FRET ABOUT SECURITY. A weak OS needs me to put in boring work... -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:29:25 -0300 Iruata Souza iru.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Ethan Grammatikidiseeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:33:18 +0100 Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: I cannot imageine the senario where random people will have access to the cpu/auth/file server's consoles. It just doesn't happen if you are serious about security. However if you want to protect your console against your friends I wrote a script to do it /n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/conslock you may also want to look at screenlock(1) Incidentially I may use this at home to protect my servers console against my 2 year old who rather likes keyboards, though this is a different type of security. -Steve Speaking of family, I'd imagine a little password protection might go a long way to keeping the peace in many families. Respect for siblings' property isn't exactly hard-wired into human nature, is it? no password protection will suffice when ethics fails. ETHICS? In a SEVEN YEAR OLD who knows what rm does? What the fuck planet are you from? Don't get me started on my teenage years. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] binary sprint format
On Fri Aug 7 04:44:37 EDT 2009, com...@panix.com wrote: In article 4a7b6ef7.6090...@tecmav.com, Adriano Verardo a.vera...@tecmav.com wrote: I'm trying to convert integers in text binary format by sprint(..., %b, i), but 8c issue a format mismatch b INT warning message. Can anyone kindly explain to me my mistake ? Doesn't %b behave like the other integer format specifications ? Sound like you may want %d, however, not sure what you're trying to do, since dunno what you mean by text binary or if you were just cutting corners with ... but run man sprintf and have a look. if only the man page had been read and corners had not been cut ... here's what was missed: - the message (http://9fans.net/archive/2009/08/191) explaining the solution which was sent several hrs earlier, - that he was using sprint, not sprintf from stdio, - that %b is a legitimate sprint verb. - erik
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Ethan Grammatikidiseeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:29:25 -0300 Iruata Souza iru.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Ethan Grammatikidiseeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:33:18 +0100 Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: I cannot imageine the senario where random people will have access to the cpu/auth/file server's consoles. It just doesn't happen if you are serious about security. However if you want to protect your console against your friends I wrote a script to do it /n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/conslock you may also want to look at screenlock(1) Incidentially I may use this at home to protect my servers console against my 2 year old who rather likes keyboards, though this is a different type of security. -Steve Speaking of family, I'd imagine a little password protection might go a long way to keeping the peace in many families. Respect for siblings' property isn't exactly hard-wired into human nature, is it? no password protection will suffice when ethics fails. ETHICS? In a SEVEN YEAR OLD who knows what rm does? What the fuck planet are you from? Don't get me started on my teenage years. having respect for the shared (or private if you wish) stuff is ethical. if only prohibition is applied, no password protection will work. a seven year old in anger can surely set fire on the computer or whatnot if ethics fails him. iru
Re: [9fans] linux reinvents factotum, secstore ...
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:03:17 -0400 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: These are reasonable questions (and many of them have yes as the answer ;-)) but I have a more fundamental objection here: the desktop is just NOT the place for such a functionality to originate from. The very concept of a fixed desktop that resides on a physical piece of hardware that you own feels so 20th century to me. One way or the other the online identity issue is going to be settled. For contenders, though, I'd rather look at: factotum or things like OAuth. X11 way back when, for all its faults, was more network centric than openview or anything that came after. X11 isn't a desktop, it tries very hard not to define a look and feel, but it has to include inter-app communications to support the supposedly desirable drag drop as well as any copy/paste beyond plain text. In fact my big beef with dbus is that everything is all hot-all-over about dbus when it needs to be using X IPC. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:02:27 -0300 Iruata Souza iru.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Ethan Grammatikidiseeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:29:25 -0300 Iruata Souza iru.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Ethan Grammatikidiseeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:33:18 +0100 Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: I cannot imageine the senario where random people will have access to the cpu/auth/file server's consoles. It just doesn't happen if you are serious about security. However if you want to protect your console against your friends I wrote a script to do it /n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/conslock you may also want to look at screenlock(1) Incidentially I may use this at home to protect my servers console against my 2 year old who rather likes keyboards, though this is a different type of security. -Steve Speaking of family, I'd imagine a little password protection might go a long way to keeping the peace in many families. Respect for siblings' property isn't exactly hard-wired into human nature, is it? no password protection will suffice when ethics fails. ETHICS? In a SEVEN YEAR OLD who knows what rm does? What the fuck planet are you from? Don't get me started on my teenage years. having respect for the shared (or private if you wish) stuff is ethical. if only prohibition is applied, no password protection will work. a seven year old in anger can surely set fire on the computer or whatnot if ethics fails him. Again, what planet are you from?! :) Setting fire to the computer will get him in so much trouble it'll hurt nastily, but a little messing with big bro's hobby, while risky, doesn't seem to be anywere near as bad. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
I keep many dump files around with different names, to easily suspend, switch, and resume acme configurations depending on what I need to work on. This significantly reduces my context switch time, over and above the advantage I get from guide files keeping me from (mis)retyping commands. in acme: highlight and execute Dump /home/me/dump/whatever in shell: rum acme -l /home/me/dump/whatever Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
Aaron's problem is not dumping per se, it's saving his indentation and other command line state between sessions. Unless there's something I missed, you can only enable functions like auto-indent via the command line(-a) or via Indent on in acme. The dump doesn't preserve indent state so yes, Aaron needs a script. Noah On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Jason Catenajason.cat...@gmail.com wrote: I keep many dump files around with different names, to easily suspend, switch, and resume acme configurations depending on what I need to work on. This significantly reduces my context switch time, over and above the advantage I get from guide files keeping me from (mis)retyping commands. in acme: highlight and execute Dump /home/me/dump/whatever in shell: rum acme -l /home/me/dump/whatever Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
2009/8/7 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: The dump doesn't preserve indent state personally, i think it should. and some other stuff as well.
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
What other stuff are you thinking of? On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:02 PM, roger pepperogpe...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/7 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: The dump doesn't preserve indent state personally, i think it should. and some other stuff as well.
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
Ethan wrote:
// Oh God, not the everyday examples == proof argument, PLEASE.
Er, what? everyday examples are a perfectly good existence proof,
which is all they're being used for here. You seem to be after a more
universal correctness sort of proof, for which they're entirely
inappropriate, but which they weren't being used for.
// The common case in the present time is that people EXPECT
// server terminals to be password protected so they're not likely
// to bother looking.
Expect? The console comes up and you get a prompt. Is that fact
really more hidden than you think a reasonable level of investigation
will get you? If so, then I expect you install unfamiliar OSs without
checking for running services, open ports, debug consoles, default
passwords, and the like, in which case having any conversation about
security is laughable. When installing any new system, you're expected
to determine whether the default behavior works in your circumstances.
I find it informative that while you object to proof by real-world
examples (which I hadn't even tried), you counter with proof by
contrived examples.
// Now here's the point. I and a billion other people HAVE MORE
// FUN THINGS TO DO THAN FRET ABOUT SECURITY. A weak
// OS needs me to put in boring work...
Ah, yes, there's the point. You have a system in front of you that
doesn't quite operate the way you'd like, and rather than put in the
*trivial* work involved to change it, you instead want to convince the
community that they were somehow wrong for building it that way and
should change it to your desires.
This has gone from silly to stupid. The original question was why Plan
9 doesn't do this by default; that has been explained. The explanation
holds valid for very many Plan 9 systems, as evidenced by the
testimony here. Yet nobody has said you can't have what you want. In
fact, various options for getting there have been identified. The only
reason this conversation persists is because some participants are
intent on proving the abstract, universal correctness of their
position. That's dumb. Don't be dumb.
Run this on your console if you're still worried about Frank:
#!/bin/rc
lockword=`{cat /tmp/lockword}
while() {
echo -n 'Enter lockword: '
entered=`{read}
if (~ $entered $lockword)
exit
if not
echo 'Wrong. Die, Frank!'
}
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
no password protection will suffice when ethics fails. iru English Lit grads please avert your eyes... Something there is that doesn’t love a wall… He says again, “Good fences make good neighbors.” -Robert Frost, from Mending Wall _Something There is That Needs a Wall_ Something that doesn’t love a wall is me With other Internauts, I want to be free. But some free spirits become disgrace When liberated in cyberspace. We’re slow to learn that after the Fall We have not earned such license at all. (Utopians are never eager to see The ways that walls make people free.) But when we meet, we meet in a place Removed from the crazy highway race. Something there is that needs a wall: The preschool, the office, the shopping mall. And so the mender might glean from his labors Truly, good fences do make good neighbors.
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
And the floppy is available at http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/2nd_edition/plan9.att.com/pcdist/ but I have not tested it, if you do I would love to hear about it. I had found that about a year ago, and was able to get the floppy set up and running in Virtual PC without much trouble. It'll only work at 800x600x1, but otherwise, it wasn't terribly difficult... I've still got the VPC image, but it hasn't been fired up in some time. -Ben winmail.dat
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
Now here's the point. I and a billion other people HAVE MORE FUN THINGS TO DO THAN FRET ABOUT SECURITY. A weak OS needs me to put in boring work... Hah... yes, that would be why I'm merely reading this thread instead of adding to it... Oh crap, nevermind :-) -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] Intel atom motherboard - success at last
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:49 AM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Thu Aug 6 19:36:22 EDT 2009, quans...@quanstro.net wrote: I went through all the default during the install and during fmtfossil I got a few matherror something and it crashed. I t wen too fast for me to take notes. this is due to the awk problem reported this week. i'll roll up another cd this evening. with ide turned off, you probablly just haven't gotten to the part where awk dies. if you can get your machine on the network, you can use /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/awk bind /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/awk /bin/awk i still have to figure out why i can't build a cd after binding awk into a 9660srv fs. well the cd gets built, it's just 20mb too small. I did this 1 . boot the cd. 2. selected all install and all the defaults 3. after bootup...I delete all the install window 4. open new window 5. ip/ipconfig 6. ndb/cs 7. ndb/dns -r 8. srv -n sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources 9. mount -n /srv/sources /n/sources 10. bind /n/sources/quanstro/awk /bin/awk 11. typed inst/mainloop 12. selected fmtfossil. it still crashes with a Faulted awk Did I miss a step?? thanks for the help fernan -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
the Include path. contents of win buffers. Undo/Redo history. ok, the last might be pushing it a bit, but ideally i'd like to be able to dump an acme session and restore it without any loss of continuity, and the Undo/Redo history is a very useful part of my acme context. while i'm about it, there are a few other dump features i'd like to see: - automatic dumping every 30s or so in case of a crash. - Dump would dump to the restored-from file rather than $home/acme.dump by default. - atomic dump file creation - if, for some reason, acme dies half-way through dumping, i don't want the old dump file to be erased with a dud new one. most of this should be fairly straightforward, i've just not made space in my life to do it yet. and i doubt it would be accepted as a patch anyway. 2009/8/7 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: What other stuff are you thinking of? On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:02 PM, roger pepperogpe...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/7 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: The dump doesn't preserve indent state personally, i think it should. and some other stuff as well.
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
ok, the last might be pushing it a bit, but ideally i'd like to be able to dump an acme session and restore it without any loss of continuity, and the Undo/Redo history is a very useful part of my acme context. - Dump would dump to the restored-from file rather than $home/acme.dump by default. - atomic dump file creation - if, for some reason, acme dies half-way through dumping, i don't want the old dump file to be erased with a dud new one. most of this should be fairly straightforward, i've just not made space in my life to do it yet. and i doubt it would be accepted as a patch anyway. it positively won't be accepted if it doesn't exist. - erik
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
Do you want to add all these features to acme, or is it possible to have an external process which writes to acme ctl files and causes these things to happen? ron
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
you mean outside of the dump when acme is dies for reasons other than being killed/exited? with win state, how are you going to handle the state of the shell? I can see why they're dynamic, it could be potentially misleading to see a changed namespace/rfork etc... and expect the shell to have the same environment as the history. I definitely like your restored from ideas. I wouldn't worry about getting the patch accepted or not. Just go for it. On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:42 PM, roger pepperogpe...@gmail.com wrote: the Include path. contents of win buffers. Undo/Redo history. ok, the last might be pushing it a bit, but ideally i'd like to be able to dump an acme session and restore it without any loss of continuity, and the Undo/Redo history is a very useful part of my acme context. while i'm about it, there are a few other dump features i'd like to see: - automatic dumping every 30s or so in case of a crash. - Dump would dump to the restored-from file rather than $home/acme.dump by default. - atomic dump file creation - if, for some reason, acme dies half-way through dumping, i don't want the old dump file to be erased with a dud new one. most of this should be fairly straightforward, i've just not made space in my life to do it yet. and i doubt it would be accepted as a patch anyway. 2009/8/7 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: What other stuff are you thinking of? On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:02 PM, roger pepperogpe...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/7 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: The dump doesn't preserve indent state personally, i think it should. and some other stuff as well.
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Noah Evansnoah.ev...@gmail.com wrote: you mean outside of the dump when acme is dies for reasons other than being killed/exited? with win state, how are you going to handle the state of the shell? I can see why they're dynamic, it could be potentially misleading to see a changed namespace/rfork etc... and expect the shell to have the same environment as the history. i've been thinking about that. maybe just dumping the win contents (not the whole environment) would do the job. iru
[9fans] mtrr
the mtrr() call in the kernel can error.
vgavesa doesn't protect against this possibility.
i think that this change couldn't hurt for those
who are having trouble with vesa
vgavesa.c:133,142 - /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/9/pc/vgavesa.c:133,139
if(size 16*1024*1024) /* probably arbitrary; could increase */
size = 16*1024*1024;
hardscreen = vmap(paddr, size);
- if(!waserror()){
- mtrr(paddr, size, wc);
- poperror();
- }
+ mtrr(paddr, size, wc);
//vgalinearaddr(scr, paddr, size);
}
it might be better to move these four lines
into vgalinearaddr right before the vmap and
get rid of the hardscreen vmap.
i haven't tested this since i don't have mtrr
in my kernels yet since pat works fine. with
the pat patch, vmappat replaces the vmap call
in vgalinearaddr it has not caused trouble for
any video card in that time and has given
pretty good speedups.
the other reason to use pat is so it can be used
with the myricom 10gbe card.
- erik
Re: [9fans] linux reinvents factotum, secstore ...
On Aug 7, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: X11 isn't a desktop, it tries very hard not to define a look and feel, but it has to include inter-app communications to support the supposedly desirable drag drop as well as any copy/paste beyond plain text. In fact my big beef with dbus is that everything is all hot-all-over about dbus when it needs to be using X IPC. My beef is that they were hot-all-over CORBA not too long ago. I expect in another three years nobody will be using D-Bus, they'll be using some new layer that sits on top of it... ad nauseam. Outside Plan 9 I don't see anyone solving two problems with one technology; instead, they're just solving one problem and introducing a new one. — Daniel Lyons
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:23, yyyiyu@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/7 roger peppe rogpe...@gmail.com: Contents of all the taglines i have lost precious one-liners in column headers. Didn't copy them into guide files in the current directory? Seems to work just as well for file commands, if not edit commands (which just need copied back). - Dump would dump to the restored-from file rather than $home/acme.dump by default. I put Dump /where/ever/dumps/go in the top tagline and highlight it, works well enough for me. very good judgement is needed to accept or reject acme patches. I can definitely attest to this principle in my own work. In terms of apprentice/journeyman/master for a particular program: the apprentices write a lot of code, most of which is thrown away to get to a few good ideas; the journeymen refine ideas into something worthy of a patch, and may own a subsystem; and the master vets all code for architectural coherence. These roles vary by code base: I'm apprentice of Plan 9, master of a 10-year-old build system. I can transfer some knowledge and skills, but still need to learn the conventions and architecture before suggesting any dramatic (indeed, noticeable) change. Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
2009/8/7 yy yiyu@gmail.com:
2009/8/7 roger peppe rogpe...@gmail.com:
the Include path.
contents of win buffers.
Undo/Redo history.
Contents of all the taglines
i have lost precious one-liners in column headers.
while i'm about it, there are a few other dump
features i'd like to see:
- automatic dumping every 30s or so in case of a crash.
could this be done with a script?
- Dump would dump to the restored-from file rather than
$home/acme.dump by default.
i did this once. unfortunately, i cannot find that code.
I forgot to mention that I lost the code because it got deprecated by
this rc function, which somebody else could find useful:
fn ad { #acme dump
dumpfile = $home/lib/dump/$1
touch $dumpfile
bind $dumpfile $home/acme.dump
acme -l acme.dump
}
--
- yiyus || JGL . 4l77.com
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
the floppies were available without the book+cd; at least as late as 1996 i remember downloading them from att's web site. they represented a fairly minimal system. i don't remember specifically, but it seems likely that there were license terms specific to the download.
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
If all you want is to preserve the -a flag, add to your profile:
; fn a { acme -a; }
Problem solved.
uriel
P.S.: Admitedly this doesn't fix up the plumber, but once you have an
acme session the plumber will use it, and you can fix it up for the
plumber equally simply.
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Aaron W. Hsuarcf...@sacrideo.us wrote:
Other than a script to start acme with the -a option, is there some way to
configure the start up option on Acme? I am thinking of the equivalent of a
.exrc file or the like?
Aaron W. Hsu
--
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims
may be the most oppressive. -- C. S. Lewis
Re: [9fans] 9base-3
In recently-updated Cygwin (under WinXP), I got several dozen of these warning types ... In file included from regex/regcomp.c:2: ./regexp9.h:8: warning: weak declaration of '__p9l_autolib_regexp9' not supported ... before a compile error ... regex/regcomp.c: In function `regcomp1': regex/regcomp.c:487: error: invalid lvalue in unary `' regex/regcomp.c:487: warning: implicit declaration of function `p9setjmp' make[1]: *** [regex/regcomp.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/Profiles/cjc040/opt/src/9base-3/lib9' make: *** [all] Error 2 ... with this code (line 487 is the if line). if(setjmp(regkaboom)) goto out; This project is welcome, for two reasons significant to me. A minimal subset of the scripting tools means I can stop maintaining ksh scripts for machines that I don't want to install plan9port on (eg lab machines I won't use often.) For me, plan9port won't extract fully from its tar file (even if I extract and repackage it) on my brain-dead Windows+Cygwin laptop at work. The plan9port distribution works fine on a Linux machine, so I assume it's Cygwin (I do have enough disk space free). Maybe I should try hg when I'm not behind the firewall, to download the whole distribution file-by-file. Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] 9base-3
Always get p9p from hg, the tarballs have been partially broken for ages and always have problems being untared in some environments, hg is fast, painless, and makes it real easy to keep your installation up to date. uriel On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Jason Catenajason.cat...@gmail.com wrote: In recently-updated Cygwin (under WinXP), I got several dozen of these warning types ... In file included from regex/regcomp.c:2: ./regexp9.h:8: warning: weak declaration of '__p9l_autolib_regexp9' not supported ... before a compile error ... regex/regcomp.c: In function `regcomp1': regex/regcomp.c:487: error: invalid lvalue in unary `' regex/regcomp.c:487: warning: implicit declaration of function `p9setjmp' make[1]: *** [regex/regcomp.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/Profiles/cjc040/opt/src/9base-3/lib9' make: *** [all] Error 2 ... with this code (line 487 is the if line). if(setjmp(regkaboom)) goto out; This project is welcome, for two reasons significant to me. A minimal subset of the scripting tools means I can stop maintaining ksh scripts for machines that I don't want to install plan9port on (eg lab machines I won't use often.) For me, plan9port won't extract fully from its tar file (even if I extract and repackage it) on my brain-dead Windows+Cygwin laptop at work. The plan9port distribution works fine on a Linux machine, so I assume it's Cygwin (I do have enough disk space free). Maybe I should try hg when I'm not behind the firewall, to download the whole distribution file-by-file. Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
Story time. :) You're also falling into the trap of believing that because it _can_ happen, it has to happen (Murphy's Law). It punishes the many for the sins of the few and is a very poor foundation for progress. Plan 9 has a good balance of cost of security against eventual real protection and forces you to re-evaluate the accepted paradigms. That is sufficient reason to explore Plan 9, if not to adopt it wholesale. ++L
Re: [9fans] a few Q's regarding cpu/auth server
The Plan 9 way of thinking (wrt the security of physical terminal access) completely undermines, or somehow fails to recognize, the very real fact that there is always a cost/risk effort/reward equation at play. Sure, but you used this against Plan 9 when you should have used it as a stimulus for further investigation. The Plan 9 developers added factotum and the secstore and re-evaluated security out of necessity. They highlighted what was already known, namely that physical security is essential for real protection and based their efforts on this discovery. Merely acting on this principle was a break with tradition for which they should be thanked, specially as they did not take away the option to re-introduce the ability to pull the wool over the system administrator's eyes. You may do this if you want, I'd be curious to see what kind of following you will find in this audience. ++L PS: I think that illusion has some value in security, but the risk it creates is much greater. Like all security, what you see is more important than what you have to dig to discover (a closed door is a greater deterrent than an open one, even when it is unlocked). PPS: The tone of your second reply suggests that my little barb had much greater effect than you admitted. Don't take it to heart, this is a mailing list where the occasional insult becomes irresistible :-)
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
The 4th edition should run on a 486, though you will need (say) 128Mb of ram - much more if you want to recompile gs(1). All versions of Plan 9 need an FPU (awk usually caught me out) so beware of 486SX chips. ++L
Re: [9fans] the old floppy set
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Steve Simonst...@quintile.net wrote: As Anthony says it is very very old, but I might be fun if you had the time on your hands. The 2nd edition books/cdrom are nolonger available but you might find a set seccond hand (abebooks.com etc). The floppys are here: /n/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/ I found a complete mirror of the old 2nd edition site and I think uriel has copied it to cat-v.org. You will need 16Mb to install and 8Mb to run a terminal though It will work at 640x480x1 resolution. The 4th edition should run on a 486, though you will need (say) 128Mb of ram - much more if you want to recompile gs(1). -Steve With a little help from FreeDOS, I am now successfully running 2e on a 66MHz 486 with 32 MB of RAM and little bitty hard drive ( 300 MB). It's fun; on the surface, it's not a lot different, although 800x600x1 makes things interesting (I like it, actually... rio hacking time?). I'd kill for the full CD, which I guess would have to go on my other 486, since I seem to recall that the full system needs 500 MB. However, given licensing, I suppose it's out of reach for the time being--anybody with experience in this sort of thing, is there a point in time when it could be distributed freely, or will it be stuck in the You can't have 2e without a license, and you can't have a license state forever? John -- Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing -- Rob Pike
Re: [9fans] Acme Configuration
On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 19:23 +0200, yy yiyu.jgl-at-gmail.com |9fans| wrote: 2009/8/7 roger peppe rogpe...@gmail.com: the Include path. contents of win buffers. Undo/Redo history. Contents of all the taglines i have lost precious one-liners in column headers. Tag lines are preserved by Dump/Load in P9P acme (http://code.swtch.com/plan9port/changeset/ec8f2649c141/). I couldn't live without out it. I don't if/how changes are propagated from P9P to plan9. - Peter Canning
[9fans] Plan 9 manuals
Silly question: is there any way of buying 3d edition (or better yet 2nd edition) original manuals? Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 manuals
Silly question: is there any way of buying 3d edition (or better yet 2nd edition) original manuals? I had always thought it was a bit taboo to say hey, anyone want to sell their 2nd Edition copy?, though I'm sure there there would be several eager buyers on this list... I'm one of them, but good luck! Those cost ~$350 back in the day, and I'd suspect that they'd command a similar price today. As for the 3rd Edition manual set, I believe Vita Nuova may still have a few in stock... -Ben winmail.dat
