Re: [9fans] Sad news.
Thank you for letting us know, Dan. I never had the chance to meet Andrey, but I always respected his coding and knowledge. He will be missed greatly. Deepest condolences to his family and those that knew him better. On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:35 AM Dan Cross wrote: > > I just got word that Andrey has passed away. :-( > > I'm sorry, I don't have any further details right now, but wanted to let > folks know. > > - Dan C. > > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T89f7af873f4109c5-M82acc0f16c8b32c7bf5a658b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Jim McKie
Sad news. Thank you for letting us know. I never had the pleasure of meeting him in person, but I had a lot of respect for his knowledge and programming. On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:36 PM Charles Forsyth wrote: > > I am sorry to say that Jim McKie (jmk) died suddenly on 16 June. > https://www.ippolitofuneralhomes.com/obituaries/James-B-McKie?obId=15111702=IwAR3d7aHZXEOhYz-ciOrQPh-W1eMw-_8MHiCUdeKOxzLBEI6VGHsSn4aTjdk > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Td73b359f9dc68c15-Mf7a4a43cbbebc961180a7473 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] PDP11 (Was: Re: what heavy negativity!)
On Mon, Oct 8, 2018, 17:15 Bakul Shah wrote: > On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 19:03:49 -0400 Dan Cross wrote: > > > > plan9 is breathtakingly elegant, but this is in no small part because as > a > > research system it had the luxury of simply ignoring many thorny problems > > that would have marred that beauty but that the developers chose not to > > tackle. Some of these problems have non-trivial domain complexity and, > > while "modern" systems are far too complex by far, that doesn't mean that > > all solutions can be recast as elegantly simple pearls in the plan9 > style. > > One thing I have mused about is recasting plan9 as a > microkernel and pushing out a lot of its kernel code into user > mode code. It is already half way there -- it is basically a > mux for 9p calls, low level device drivers, VM support & some > process related code. Such a redesign can be made more secure > and more resilient. The kind of problems you mention are > easier to fix in user code. Different application domains may > have different needs which are better handled as optional user > mode components. > > Said another way, keep the good parts of the plan9 design and > reachitect/reimplement the kernel + essential drivers/usermode > daemons. This is unlikely to happen (without some serious > funding) but still fun to think about! If done, this would be > a more radical departure than Oberon-7 compared to Oberon but > in the same spirit. > I've mused about that also. My problem has been finding the time. I think it would be a worthwhile project. Not entirely unrelated, I've been tinkering with seL4. >
Re: [9fans] Dragan
Same here, Skip. Still sitting in the box on the shelf. On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Skip Tavakkolian < skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dragonboard 410c (ARM64) > > I have one and have not done a thing with it yet. way too many things. > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:27 AM Micah Stetson <mi...@classroomsystems.com> > wrote: > >> I'm curious. What is it? Google tells me nothing, unless you're talking >> about playing basketball with a Croatian or football with a Serbian. >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Prof Brucee <prof.bru...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Anyone played with a Dragan? >>> >> >> -- Christopher Nielsen "They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Plan9 Sources Repository
On Jul 19, 2014 1:17 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: [snip] - having an SSH2 server (there is one in 9atom, but I didn't see it in the stock Plan9). Are you sure it doesn't have the Heartbleed? i'm sure it doesn't have heartbleed. code for that sort of renegotiation was never written. Not to mention heartbleed has nothing to do with ssh... It was an implementation bug in openssl only; it wasn't even a protocol bug.
Re: [9fans] Go and 21-bit runes (and a bit of Go status)
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 10:33 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote: all this is moot unless we can get plan 9 integrated into go's automatic build system. is this doable? i have resources to make this happen if it is. - erik It's definitely doable. I have a builder key that I've provided to David du Colombier. My Plan 9 install needs a little love, but it's almost ready for full-time dev. I have some spare cycles to work on the port, too. I feel strongly that we can get the port in shape by the March 1 deadline. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Deepak Chawla dcha...@gmail.com wrote: In the past, I've had problems installing 9atom/plan9 on the latest version of VirtualBox, but I could install it on a VM from an older (4.1.24?) rev of VirtualBox. I have since updated to the latest VirtualBox and my VMs have continued to work. I haven't tried an install on a new VM since I updated. quick update. more comprehensive update of everything i tried when i have a free minute to compile a complete list. i couldn't get 9atom to work sufficiently under any of the vm platforms i tried (vbox, vmware workstation). fyi, ahci is not an option on vmware workstation. sata isn't even an option unless you have version 10.x i had an old dell latitude d630 to try an install. 9atom installed perfectly, and all the devices i need to run a cpu/fs/auth server all worked out of the box, so that is what i am currently using. nice work on the hardware support. when i have a decent dev and test environment setup, i'll see if i can figure out what's going on with vmware. thanks for all the help and guidance. i'll keep you posted. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
[9fans] VMware and 9atom
This seems to be a regular question, but there is very little to no useful or current information available, so I will ask again in hopes that something has changed. Has anyone been able to install 9atom on any version of VMware Workstation? If so, would you please share the settings you used to get it working. I am trying to setup a go dev environment and need 9atom for python 2.7. I'll keep plugging away at it, and if I find something that works, I'll share it. Thanks! -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
Thanks, Matthew. I'll add it to my list of options test. On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/06/13 15:33, Christopher Nielsen wrote: This seems to be a regular question, but there is very little to no useful or current information available, so I will ask again in hopes that something has changed. Has anyone been able to install 9atom on any version of VMware Workstation? If so, would you please share the settings you used to get it working. I am trying to setup a go dev environment and need 9atom for python 2.7. I'll keep plugging away at it, and if I find something that works, I'll share it. Thanks! 9front might work in VMWare. It has python and mercurial installed and go works pretty well on it. You could try that too. -- Veety -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
Just installed 9front in a VM, and it worked fine. Two things. First, it didn't ask me for systype as the documentation suggests it's supposed to. No problem. I can sort that out on my own, but it would be nice if the docs were correct. Second, python 2.5.1. Any plans to bring over Jeff Sickel's 2.7.5? I can give it a go, if no one else is working on it, but I know it requires significant changes to APE. It's needed for codereview, IIRC. Also, what's the mercurial version? It says version unknown. It'd be good to have mercurial 2.6.2 for go compiler and stdlib dev, which is what I meant when I said go dev. Thanks! On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: I've been using 9front (cpu/auth/cwfs) in vmware for almost a year with no problems. It even supports hda-intel sound. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 1:32 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This seems to be a regular question, but there is very little to no useful or current information available, so I will ask again in hopes that something has changed. i think there's a disconnect here. that is, i don't really understand the question. so what would an acceptable answer look like? are you looking for a compendium of differences, or something else? Sorry about the confusion. I was looking for any current information on how to successfully install 9atom on vmware. What I've found via google is very sparse and not recent. From what I am able to gather, it sounds like the vmware ATA hardware emulation is severely lacking and doesn't agree with what's in 9atom's sdata.c. It's a starting point, though. Does that help? Has anyone been able to install 9atom on any version of VMware Workstation? If so, would you please share the settings you used to get it working. I am trying to setup a go dev environment and need 9atom for python 2.7. sorry about that. the last time i messed with vmware, ended up being a large waste of time because vmware networking didn't do what i needed. I understand why you'd see vmware as a waste of time. It is indeed problematic on a few fronts. i'm happy to accept any patches or look at any specific failures. As soon as I get my plan9 dev environment back up and running, I will be happy to do some poking around to see what I can discover. If I find anything useful, I will send along patches. If I have questions about specific failures, I'll let you know. Thanks for being willing to field questions. 9front might work in VMWare. It has python and mercurial installed and go works pretty well on it. You could try that too. as far as i know, due to ape changes, 9atom is the only python 2.7 option. jeff, do you have a document outlining how to bootstrap python 2.7? That was my understanding. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
Sadly, no. That would have been my first choice, if it were an option. I know ahci works great in 9atom. I'll give virtualbox a whirl. Thanks for your help, erik! On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:02 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: it sounds like the vmware ATA hardware emulation is severely lacking and doesn't agree with what's in 9atom's sdata.c. It's a starting point, though. Does that help? can you just set it up to do ahci? - erik -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.com wrote: Sadly, no. That would have been my first choice, if it were an option. I know ahci works great in 9atom. I'll give virtualbox a whirl. You would probably be better off using qemu than virtualbox. I've had bad luck with qemu on windows, which is sadly what I am currently stuck with as a platform. It has caused me great pain, and will hopefully change soon. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] VMware and 9atom
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote: Sadly, no. Why not? VMware does AHCI just fine. Huh. Maybe I missed a setting somewhere. I'll have another look. Thanks! -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Closed nix development is an insult
FWIW, I feel the same way as Steve. I only release code that I feel is going to be useful to others. Sometimes I am simply experimenting and the code isn't worth releasing. On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: I think its almost ready at least to try and take a look, I will try to put out a copy next week, unless other authors ask me not to. any useful bit for production usage will be shared, anyway, we have always done it that way. In short, I agree 100% with Steve. On Sep 6, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: Aram's point, obviously, is not that working on nix is insulting. Pretending you are a better judge than the whole world on whether something is 'ready to be shared' is insulting. Unless you have lawyers pointing metaophorical guns at your job, in which case just say that. Good grief, I write lots of code for plan9, only some of which I decide is successfull and well written enough to release. This is my choice and only mine, I created it I do what I want with it. I don't believe any different rules apply to nemo. If somone where to priviately, politely ask him off-line asking for a copy of the work in progress he might be willing to share, though he might not, I don't know what state this code is in or how he feels about what has been written. Fundamentally I don't understand how people beleive they can complain when they don't have access to other peoples private work. Don't get me wrong, I am all for sharing code but its to authors right to decide not to share if they wish. -Steve -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
[9fans] Plan 9 Go 386
I am trying to get the Plan 9/386 port of go stable enough to run a builder on one of my machines, but I've run into a few snags and could use some guidance. Here's the relevant setup: VMware Workstation instance running as CPU/FS/Auth server Thinkpad T21 running as a CPU server The Plan 9 install is up to date against sources, and the go tree is tip. Compiling the go tool chain with sse2 under VMware yields broken tools, and building with GO386=387, consistently breaks the tests. On bare metal, all tests except net/http pass most of the time. When a test fails I get the following errors: From the test: test pid: suicide: sys: trap: fault write addr=0xfffc pc=0x0001e6ea panic: runtime error: index out of range followed by a goroutine stack trace On the console of the cpu server: pid test: checked n page table entries It doesn't matter what the test is, when it fails, it follows this pattern An unrelated problem is in net/http, I am seeing any of the timeout tests, e.g., TestServerTimeouts, TestTLSHandshakeTimeout, exceed the test timeout. I am not sure what's going on there, but they all get stuck in a call to Pread. If anyone has any insight into what might be happening, your help would be greatly appreciated. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Google IO
I wasn't able to get tickets, but I live in SF and would love to meet up with other 9fans for a beer. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government. --Thomas Paine On Apr 20, 2013 9:17 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: Any 9 dudes going to IO in SFO real soon? I will be around abouts so may be good for an informal IWP9 beer and loud loud music. brucee
[9fans] Go Plan9 ARM Dreamplug
After a little work, I have a Plan 9 dev environment setup. My dreamplug boots with no problems, and after installing python and mercurial, I was able to clone the go repo. The build completes fine on 386, but on the dreamplug I get the errors below. Yes, I know I should probably be running as a user other than bootes; this was a quick and dirty install to get things running. Also, opnames.h does exist. dreamplug# ls -l /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h --rw-rw-r-- M 15 bootes bootes 3273 Apr 15 02:47 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h Also, it doesn't look like the tests are being run on 386. Forgive my ignorance, but is that currently intentional?* *I haven't had time to search the list. cmd/gc /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:1022[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:3400] switch expression must be integer go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/reflect.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:665[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:3240] switch expression must be integer /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2863[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5373] switch expression must be integer warning: /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2846[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5356] used and not set: fn go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/subr.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Go Plan9 ARM Dreamplug
Thanks! I'm quite pleased to have managed to get this far with a little weekend hacking. I followed the directions from http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/Plan9FromBellLabs Nice doc to whomever wrote it. So using contrib, I installed the following: fgb/z fgb/bz2 fgb/openssl bichued/python stallion/mercurial A small caveat, I had to use mercurial on x86 (my cpufsauth server is an x86 vmware instance), since there wasn't an arm binary. Other than that, it was all pretty painless. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:04 AM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.comwrote: congrats! which mercurial and python did you install? On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.com wrote: After a little work, I have a Plan 9 dev environment setup. My dreamplug boots with no problems, and after installing python and mercurial, I was able to clone the go repo. The build completes fine on 386, but on the dreamplug I get the errors below. Yes, I know I should probably be running as a user other than bootes; this was a quick and dirty install to get things running. Also, opnames.h does exist. dreamplug# ls -l /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h --rw-rw-r-- M 15 bootes bootes 3273 Apr 15 02:47 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h Also, it doesn't look like the tests are being run on 386. Forgive my ignorance, but is that currently intentional? I haven't had time to search the list. cmd/gc /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:1022[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:3400] switch expression must be integer go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/reflect.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:665[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:3240] switch expression must be integer /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2863[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5373] switch expression must be integer warning: /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2846[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5356] used and not set: fn go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/subr.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Go Plan9 ARM Dreamplug
I'll give that a shot and see if I get different results. It'll have to be some time tomorrow though. What concerns me is that the error says it can't find opnames.h when it clearly exists. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Gorka Guardiola pau...@gmail.com wrote: This is a known problem with 5c. It cannot switch on vlong. As a stopgap, you can change the types of the things being switched on to integer (type, if I remember right). G. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.comwrote: After a little work, I have a Plan 9 dev environment setup. My dreamplug boots with no problems, and after installing python and mercurial, I was able to clone the go repo. The build completes fine on 386, but on the dreamplug I get the errors below. Yes, I know I should probably be running as a user other than bootes; this was a quick and dirty install to get things running. Also, opnames.h does exist. dreamplug# ls -l /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h --rw-rw-r-- M 15 bootes bootes 3273 Apr 15 02:47 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h Also, it doesn't look like the tests are being run on 386. Forgive my ignorance, but is that currently intentional?* *I haven't had time to search the list. cmd/gc /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:1022[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:3400] switch expression must be integer go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/reflect.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:665[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:3240] switch expression must be integer /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2863[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5373] switch expression must be integer warning: /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2846[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5356] used and not set: fn go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/subr.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson -- - curiosity sKilled the cat -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Go Plan9 ARM Dreamplug
I saw the same problem and solved it by setting GOEXPERIMENT=. Not sure that's the correct solution, but it worked. I will look at it in more detail tomorrow, if I have time. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government. --Thomas Paine On Apr 15, 2013 1:24 AM, Skip Tavakkolian skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: I'm getting something similar on Sheeva. It also looks like there are still env issues: sheeva% ./all.rc # Building C bootstrap tool. cmd/dist # Building compilers and Go bootstrap tool for host, plan9/arm. lib9 libbio libmach misc/pprof cmd/addr2line cmd/cov cmd/nm cmd/objdump cmd/pack cmd/prof cmd/cc warning: /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:1733[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:3416] result of operation not used warning: /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:1733[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:3416] result of operation not used warning: /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:1736[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:3419] set and not used: yymsg warning: /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:1924[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/cc/y.tab.c:3595] set and not used: yyptr cmd/gc /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:1022[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:3400] switch expression must be integer go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/fst/Go1/include/plan9 -I/usr/fst/Go1/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/reflect.5 /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c: '/env/GOEXPERIMENT' file does not exist /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:665[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:3240] switch expression must be integer /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2863[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5373] switch expression must be integer warning: /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2846[/usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5356] used and not set: fn go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/fst/Go1/include/plan9 -I/usr/fst/Go1/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/subr.5 /usr/fst/Go1/src/cmd/gc/subr.c: '/env/GOEXPERIMENT' file does not exist sheeva% On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 1:12 AM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.comwrote: I'll give that a shot and see if I get different results. It'll have to be some time tomorrow though. What concerns me is that the error says it can't find opnames.h when it clearly exists. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Gorka Guardiola pau...@gmail.comwrote: This is a known problem with 5c. It cannot switch on vlong. As a stopgap, you can change the types of the things being switched on to integer (type, if I remember right). G. On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Christopher Nielsen cniel...@pobox.com wrote: After a little work, I have a Plan 9 dev environment setup. My dreamplug boots with no problems, and after installing python and mercurial, I was able to clone the go repo. The build completes fine on 386, but on the dreamplug I get the errors below. Yes, I know I should probably be running as a user other than bootes; this was a quick and dirty install to get things running. Also, opnames.h does exist. dreamplug# ls -l /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h --rw-rw-r-- M 15 bootes bootes 3273 Apr 15 02:47 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h Also, it doesn't look like the tests are being run on 386. Forgive my ignorance, but is that currently intentional?* *I haven't had time to search the list. cmd/gc /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:1022[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c:3400] switch expression must be integer go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/reflect.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/reflect.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:665[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:3240] switch expression must be integer /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2863[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5373] switch expression must be integer warning: /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:2846[/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c:5356] used and not set: fn go tool dist: FAILED: /bin/5c -FTVw -Bp+ -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9 -I/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/include/plan9/arm -I /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc -o $WORK/subr.5 /usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/subr.c: '/usr/bootes/src/go-plan9-arm/src/cmd/gc/opnames.h' does not exist -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] Go (again) on plan9/arm
I have a dreamplug I've been meaning to put Plan 9 on. I should have time this week to get that done for testing. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government. --Thomas Paine On Apr 10, 2013 12:25 PM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: Gorka has made good progress with his port of Go, his implementation on the Raspberry PI tests to completion and only a few tests are failing. The outstanding failures are being investigated and will be corrected. On the Sheevaplug the problem is a bit more complicated. Gorka and I are in perfect (if there is such a state) synchronisation regarding the Go sources: we are presently working with a copy of the tip Hg release onto which CL 7987044 has been applied. The description in the CL goes into details regarding additional adjustments required, but is silent about the nature of the changes that were needed to the Plan 9 distribution. Given that Gorka and I are working on different ARM platforms, it is not surprising that on my side testing is not as successful. On the one hand, there may still be issues in the Go sources, but it is also very difficult to synchronise the Plan 9 installations and at this point I don't know what differences there may be in there. We are expecting a release from Bell Labs of Plan 9 with 21-bit runes replacing the current 16-bit version. This is big and difficult and almost certainly extremely painful, so I doubt it will be completed quickly (feel free to surprise me, guys!). I noticed some changes being applied today, I think Geoff and Co. are approaching the problem circumspectly and, this is my guess, by making adjustments that can be kept self-contained. I do wish them speedy success. In the meantime, I'd like some 9fans who may own a Sheevaplug, possibly also other ARM equipment supported by Plan 9 - 9fans with some interest in Go - to try to install Go on their devices. The instructions are detailed in codereview CL 7987044, see the Go documentation on how to contribute for guidelines. Briefly, the idea is to clone the tip (default) Go development tree and build it _after_ applying CL 7987044 as a patch. To the best of my knowledge, make.rc will build the Go distribution and run.rc --no-rebuild will run the tests. Ideally, I'm looking for a breakthrough with a pristine Plan 9 distribution. This would require building the ARM (5?) development toolchain, then the entirety of the runtime for the ARM as well as the appropriate kernel(s). I guess the interested parties already know this, as well as how to boot the ARM equipment with the most recent available ARM kernel. There are additional changes that must be applied to the Plan 9 distribution before we approach a successful Go build (the build is easier, but the Go runtime needs a good few changes). The idea would be, in parallel with Bell Labs proceeding on their own path, to identify the changes that are absolutely critical and document them so that we can have Go running without putting undo pressure on Bell Labs. I'm keen to coordinate these efforts, but Gorka, Richard Miller and Ron Minnich may also want to participate and/or lead; I am not volunteering their involvement, I merely mention those I know have the interest and knwoledge to take part. There are quite a few others and they are welcome to introduce themselves if they want to be involved. I can't offer the same code review infrastructure as Go does, but I believe that coreboot.org has a similar system - that's outside my realm and each party may want to specify what rules apply to them. I hope I'm not treading on any sensitive toes this time. Lucio.
Re: [9fans] c++
Exactly this, Dan. Thanks. On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Dan Cross cro...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I think that all of this language posturing is geekier-than-thou nonsense. Calling C++ or Java a disease? Really? Suggesting that if you use one of those languages you're somehow mentally deficient? Really? Suggesting someone change jobs because they're asked to program in C++? Really? In the big scheme of things, absolutely none of this matters. Whether one programs in Java, C, Go, COBOL or 370 assembler doesn't really make any difference; one could die tomorrow, and would anyone care what language s/he programmed in? really? This world has bigger problems than that. Programming languages are tools; nothing more. Use whichever one fits the problem at hand. If you're the kind of person who geeks out on and enjoys playing around with new tools; the kind that appreciates the relative aesthetic quality of one versus the other, more power to you: but understand that trying to reformulate problems so that one can apply one's whizz-bang new shiny SuperHammer when the thing that comes out of parents' toolbox will do is just wasting time. I came across this recently, and it really resonated: http://www.lindsredding.com/2012/03/11/a-overdue-lesson-in-perspective/ - Dan C. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] 8c and elf shared libraries
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:15:26 +0100 Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: Various projects have worked on 8c to make it generate code for other OSs, have any of these resulted in code that could generate a very _very_ simple ELF shared library sutiable for linux? -Steve The 8l in Go can produce ELF binaries -- it's the linker rather than the compiler you want to look at for this. Last I heard, Go's 8l wasn't compatible with Plan 9's 8c, but there's an 8c in Go so that doesn't matter too much. I'm sure some Go fans want to use system C libraries by dynamic linking, but I'm not so sure about producing a linkable library. Though I cannot find the message now, I recall Russ commenting to someone that the Go linker is not tooled for C ELF binaries; it is very Go specific. Having worked on the NetBSD port and had to spelunk the linker, I believe that to be true. Russ would be the better authority, though. The ?c compilers included with Go are derivatives of Inferno's ?c compilers. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] make out?
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 14:29, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: make nmake pmake bmake mk gmake i guess ant is the solution. lord knows posix could not decide on a single syntax. because it would mean picking one syntax. which was against the rules. unlike all the places where they did that in the C library. fecking eeegits. Having had to (grudgingly) deal with ant, I would say that it is definitely not the solution. Ant uses XML for its syntax. I think that says it all. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] nanosleep()?
Based on golang mailing list discussions, I do believe that the intent is to have something like goinstall be the build tool for go, but I could have misinterpreted what I read. On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 07:32, Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: just take unsuitable things out of the mkfiles, since no other system is using those. I was discussing with Ron the fact that in the longer term goinstall ought to supersede both gmake (at last!) and mk, in building Go. I guess it needs to deal with situations like the present one kind of a priori. ++L -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Plan9 development
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 19:32, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: I always had the impression that the object formats used by the various ?l are more for kernels and the various formats expected by loaders than for userland apps. For userland, I would think the intent is for there to be a single consistent object format (at least for a given architecture). Well, we had alef for Irix and other similar user level/application level tricks that no longer seem important today, but without the option trickery Go would have had to wait for Ian Lance Taylor to produce a GCC version :-( Myself, I'm still trying to combine the Go toolchain with the Plan 9 toolchain so that we can have a consistent framework for real cross-platform development, but the task doesn't quite fit within my resources and skills. I don't have a problem with the trickery, it's just a shame (IMO) that it wasn't designed the same way as the target architecture stuff. I understand the complexity involved and I'm still looking for ideas on reducing that complexity. Typically, the Go toolchain still has (had?) code in it to produce Plan 9 object code, but one could easily imagine that stuff bit-rotting. If it hasn't been removed yet, it sure runs the risk of being removed before long. FWIW, someone is working on a Plan 9 port of Go. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] comment and newline in define
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 21:18, Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote: What's changed is that, to simplify porting (to systems other than Plan 9), the compilers in the Go distribution are built by gcc, not the Plan 9 C compilers. Oops. I should have noticed that. :-) Sorry for the noise. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in define)
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 22:19, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: [snip] There's a fourth objective, but it may be above my skill level, which is to port all the other Plan 9 and/or Inferno architectures into the consolidated toolchain. [snip] I've been (slowly) working on this for MIPS with the long-term plan of writing a MIPS target for Go. I haven't had a lot of time to work on it, which is why it is going slowly. I've written some tools to automate the initial changes to the Plan 9 toolchain. I am sure they have bugs (they've only been tested on MIPS so far), but I can dig them up, clean them up, and share them, if someone wants to work on the toolchains for other targets. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] comment and newline in define
The [568]c compilers in the Go tree are based on the Inferno/Plan 9
compilers. Did something change?
On Jun 25, 2010 8:47 AM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
In /sys/src/cmd/cc/macbody:298,301
if(c == '\n') {
yyerror(comment and newline in define: %s, s-name);
break;
}
suggests that all C compilers explictly forbid newlines within
comments when a macro is #defined. At a glance, I'd say that removing
the above will eliminate what to me seems an anachronism. Am I
overlooking something?
The Go toolchain code unsurprisingly uses multiline comments in
src/cmd/ld/elf.h and I'm loath to request the Go Authors to hack their
header file for a non-standard feature of the Plan 9 compilers. I
concede that the header in question would benefit, aesthetically, from
having those comments adjusted.
++L
Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 16:08, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:03 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote: which one did athens, ga fail? I think athens won big on cheap and pretty, and I also think we all felt the host (i.e. coraid) was fantastic. It was somewhat inconvenient to get to, and people had to pay the cost of a rental car. I would not object to going there again, however. But it's also nice to be in a city convenient to a different part of the world each year. Seattle and SF are good for our friends on the pacific rim. So the suggestion of non-athens locations should not be taken (at least on my part) as springing from any negative feelings about last year's meeting :-) ron If folks are interested in Los Angeles (West Hollywood), I could host here. Our office has a really nice A/V setup and room to seat 30-40 comfortably. LA isn't attractive because everything is spread out. However, there are reasonable and inexpensive accommodations within walking distance. And LA also has the advantage of an easy-to-reach from abroad airport. Of course, it's not exactly pretty here. ;-) -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] A simple experiment
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 08:06, Gabriel Díaz gd...@rejaa.com wrote: Hello how well it works with firewalls, address translation, deep inspection, etc.? never tried il outside home. . . It doesn't play well with firewalls, NAT, or deep inspection because none of the vendors have added support for it. I tried to get Cisco to add IL support back in 2001, but they politely refused. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] A simple experiment
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 13:40, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: It doesn't play well with firewalls, NAT, or deep inspection because none of the vendors have added support for it. I tried to get Cisco to add IL support back in 2001, but they politely refused. oddly, i'm not having trouble going through 5 different nats over 2 residential and 2 business dsl lines. one of the connections traverses 2 nats before reaching the intertubes. Interesting. I've seen quite a few problems in the past that were all traced back to NAT or a firewall not handling IL properly. Admittedly, I haven't used IL recently, so maybe something has changed. It's good to hear that you're not having trouble. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots tyrants. --Thomas Jefferson
Re: [9fans] kirkwood doc
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 14:11, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: Check this page, look for 'functional specification' Maybe everyone else has found this but I just got told about it by marvell. ron Did you mean to include a URL? -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] Barrelfish
I think this is an interesting approach. There are several interesting ideas being pursued here. The focus of the discussion has been on the multikernel approach, which I think has merit. Something that has not been discussed here is the wide use of DSLs for systems programming, and using haskell to write a framework for rapidly developing and proving correctness of DSLs. This is just as significant as the multikernel ideas. I downloaded the source, built the system, and will be playing with it. Thoughts? On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:09, Tim Newsham news...@lava.net wrote: Rethinking multi-core systems as distributed heterogeneous systems. Thoughts? http://www.sigops.org/sosp/sosp09/papers/baumann-sosp09.pdf Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] android hacking?
I just bought one last week, so I haven't had much chance to hack around on it. I am definitely interested, though. Work has been and will continue to be busy, so I haven't had / won't have much time to work on side projects. On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 15:32, Tim Newsham news...@lava.net wrote: Anyone playing with android phones? There's a lot of devices on it that might be interesting to export. Would be pretty easy to make a 9p server that gives you access to the GPS positioning, the accelerometer, or processed position (compass, pitch, roll), etc.. Are any of these of interest to people? Any other features of interest that I didnt mention? Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Nice work! I think this is great! Thanks for your efforts. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 15:05, Iruata Souzairu.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simonst...@quintile.net wrote: 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which you can ask for a shell (!rc) iru -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] Issues with 2 networks, fs server, and namespaces
You don't need a second IP stack. You can run both interfaces on the same IP stack and routing will just work. That's how I did it when I had a similar setup. -Chris On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 14:07, Devon H. O'Delldevon.od...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm trying to set up a group of servers (these are running on VMWare ESXi, and working great -- CPU server running with two APs, though adding more causes it to fault with a divide by zero?). Auth server's got its own 1GB fossil, boots with the 9pcauth kernel. CPU server boots from a small fossil. Both Auth and CPU are on the public internet via ether0 so that they are cpu/drawtermable. They do not boot from the file server because I didn't want to set up a DHCP server that was connected to the Internet (ISP getting mad and whatnot). While I've configured the internal network to be on it's own vswitch (managed through vmware, no real network connectivity), I've been struggling with the prior configuration enough that I don't want to just `give up' on it. The FS, however, sits on a private network. CPU and Auth are connected to this network via ether1. However, I'm having the following issues: #1) Using two networks on two different interfaces is a pain in the ass. I've got: bind '#l1' /net.alt bind '#I1' /net.alt in my /cfg/cpu/namespace. If I simply have them here, ip/ipconfig -N -x ether1 ether /net.alt/ether1 complains in cpurc about no ip being attached to /net.alt. So I have to put that in /cfg/cpu/cpurc also. I don't quite understand why everything's architected to have a single ip stack on a single ethernet; in this case, it really isn't convenient that it doesn't determine the correct interface via routing tables or somesuch. Is there something basic that I'm missing here? #2) Drawterm is taking forever and a day to connect and log in. It's either an auth issue or a DNS issue. Best guesses as to what this could be and how I should go about diagnosing it? #3) Trying to mount the fileserver globally is elusive. I want to mount /n/fs/usr over /usr and /n/fs/mail over /mail. Perfectly happy with that. However: o Doing that in cpurc doesn't put it in the global namespace o Doing it in /cfg/cpu/namespace doesn't have an ip yet so I can't run srv /net.alt/tcp!10.0.0.3!9fs in the first place o Doing it in /rc/bin/service/tcp17010 causes me to get `cpu: negotiating authentication method: [public auth server ip]: cs gave empty translation list' Mounting it from /n/fs after booting works fine (but it makes me auth, which is kind of weird -- I guess I need to set up a secstore? -- I figured that eve would be able to connect without auth, given that everything's tied to the same auth server, no matter which network it's on, and that a user drawterming in would be able to connect by virtue of having authed when connecting in the first place.) I know the `preferred way' is to boot the CPU server from the fileserver. While I could feasibly reconfigure my setup to do this, I'd prefer to figure it out this way first, given the amount of time I've been banging my head against the wall on it :) --dho -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from
Been reading the thread with interest, and I finally have a moment to comment. I was thinking about this several years ago when I had a lot of spare time on my hands and wanted to rethink and update the audio interface, and I think a lot of what you are suggesting sounds similar to the conclusions I had come to during the design phase. Comments inline. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:00, Devon H. O'Delldevon.od...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/12 Tim Newsham news...@lava.net: - What software exists for each of these formats? If you are asking about non Plan9 software I'd start with ffmpeg. - Which format is the most popular? I don't think I understand the question. Sorry, let me rephrase: - Of the different audio driver interface designs (audio(3), usb(4) and inferno usb(3)) which software (p9 and limbo) uses each? - Which of these interfaces is used the most? I don't know which is used the most, but I don't think the Plan 9 ones of them make particularly good sense to support multiple input formats to multiple output formats. sox was mentioned here recently, and is a great utility for doing the conversion. If we want a generic, reusable audio layer, to *me* the Inferno one is best with: audio audioctl I think this makes the most sense for the device driver interface. It's simple. It doesn't make sense to export files for volumes, codes, channels, and other settings to me. This is because (at least with HDA cards) you would end up with 5 bajillion files for controlling volume on each individual channel. You'd end up with another file for reading/writing codec settings. You'd end up with a file saying whether you preferred digital output or analog output. OSS relies heavily on ioctls for setting these things, but for good reason. In our case, a standardized set of strings for the ctl file seems best to me. If I want to change master volume, echo master 255.255 /dev/audioctl. If I want to set digital out, echo output channel digital /dev/audioctl. etc. A more spread out filesystem would make the ctl handler smaller, but would not reduce the amount of code needed to support mixers / codecs / channels / whatnot (In fact, you'd just have more code because you'd have to have functions for reading/writing those files). Also, then you just need to come up with strings -- you're just bit frobbing these things, and more complicated filesystem hierarchy doesn't help explain it any better. echo 255 /dev/audio/mixer/channel/master/right; echo 255 /dev/audio/mixer/channel/master/left; just seems obtuse, and, as I said, it's just adding more redundant code anyway. I agree with this, too. Keep the interface simple and make the audioctl file smart based on the type of audio card you have. A complex file hierarchy just doesn't feel right to me. The simplest interface you can get away with is generally the most powerful. To then play sound, you would probably have a sox-like converter sitting on top of that (maybe even on top of /dev/audio?) that takes input of a certain format and does either minimal conversion (i.e. a card that supports XA ADPCM taking input from a playstation 2 sound file not having any conversion at all, WAV going to the proper byte-order PCM with the header stripped off, etc), or highest resolution audio available (e.g. 5.1 flac getting converted to whatever codec supports 5.1 audio). I haven't read up on sox, but I think the converter should be a file server sitting on top of /dev/audio. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:52, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: My list was only there to try and prove the point that Russ has made -- pick a most common format and stick with it. Convert everything else into it. By this logic, I need to have my application to convert CDROM-XA ADPCM audio from a device into PCM just to talk to an interface, which in turn must convert it back into ADPCM to play it back because the DMA transfers to the audio hardware buffer require ADPCM. the problem with supporting everything the hardware will do is that it's quite expensive in terms of development time. and that is the scarce resource that needs to be optimized. it also will make the interfaces much bulkier because you have to make accomidations for the quirks of n formats. you're right, there is a cost. simple is expensive. So spend time figuring out the best interface, write what you need, add as you find more you need, refactor if it starts to get crufty. Sometimes you don't get the interface right the first time. That's fine! You can refactor later. It's better to write code and play with it than to get stuck in analysis paralysis. Maybe we're thinking the same thing, and I misunderstand what you're saying. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] Small program PlanKey (paraphrase of DOSKey)
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 14:12, Roman V. Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 23:09 -0800, Russ Cox wrote: Do you enjoy mouse editing? May be I'm just an old TTY junkie, but for me mouse is a device that lets me switch between Xterms with screens(1) in them ;-) This particular topic has been discussed to death in the past. It sure was ;-) But... Forsyth had a particularly lucid summary of a study by Tognazzi showing that mouse editing was faster but that keyboard editing felt faster: ... I've seen this study and I tend to believe it. But there's a gotcha: the kind of work that I and other software engineers do with computers is almost orthogonal to what the study was focusing on. I don't believe anybody else, but engineers, spend the majority of time dealing with text. Who do you think Plan 9 was designed for and by? Maybe you should try using the system without all your preconceived notions of what should and should not be. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
Re: [9fans] Small program PlanKey (paraphrase of DOSKey)
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 14:50, Roman V. Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: Are you a programmer? Care to give pointers to the projects you've been on? I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you. Check the archives. I get it! You are not a programmer -- you are a phone prankster. Uh . . . yeah. No. -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
