Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

, 2015 10:41 AM To: Alexander Surkov Cc: Joseph Scheuhammer; IAccessible2 mailing list; Steve Faulkner Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping The problem with the name computation is that: If you use it to compute a name only and then type over it you lose the hint. ... e.g. a

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hi James, On 2015-04-29 7:34 AM, James Teh wrote: On 29/04/2015 12:08 AM, Joseph Scheuhammer wrote: a few questions is aria-placeholder ever to be used as fallback for accname/description calculation? My position is that, yes, aria-placeholder text can be used as a fallback for a name, but the

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 2015-05-01 10:52 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote: But I'm not sure I see reasoning of *not* mapping it into accessible name/description the way what HTML5 spec suggests. If the placeholder text is put in both the name and placeholder properties, then the same text might be presented twice, once

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Btw, Joseph, I didn't really suggested to change GTK+ mappings :) Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. The point was that the mapping for placeholder for GTK (desktop) widgets is inconsistent with widgets in webpages, and that the HTML mapping spec is not backward compatible with that. P

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 2015-04-29 7:48 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote: I support the idea that the browser should find a best match for accessible name and description. Btw, current version of HTML a11y spec agrees on it [1]. After all there's backward compatibility issue If placeholder is exposed leaving accessible n

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Joseph Scheuhammer wrote: > On 2015-05-01 10:52 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > >> But I'm not sure I see reasoning of *not* mapping it into accessible >> name/description the way what HTML5 spec suggests. >> > > If the placeholder text is put in both the name and p

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Joseph Scheuhammer wrote: > Btw, Joseph, I didn't really suggested to change GTK+ mappings :) >> > > Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. The point was that the mapping > for placeholder for GTK (desktop) widgets is inconsistent with widgets in > webpages, and

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

; > From: Alexander Surkov > To: Joseph Scheuhammer > Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list < > accessibility-...@lists.linux-foundation.org>, Steve Faulkner < > faulkner.st...@gmail.com> > Date: 05/01/2015 09:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Accessibil

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list , Steve Faulkner Date: 05/01/2015 09:20 AM Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org So it seems like we all agree to introduce placeholder object

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

So it seems like we all agree to introduce placeholder object attribute in IAccessible2. IA2 spec doesn't define markup mappings so it doesn't have to say about HTML5 placeholder and ARIA aria-placeholder attributes. Anyway, it doesn't prevent us from discussing it here :) So are there benefits in

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 30/04/2015 10:55 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: if you've already made this choice for ATK, FWIW, it was made years ago and by several developers I still think doing this with descriptions might be better, but I do at least follow the reasoning behind this decision. It's worth noting that we do

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 04/29/2015 08:35 PM, James Teh wrote: > Fair enough. We've tried to keep IA2 and ATK fairly closely synced to > unify things/make things easier, but if you've already made this choice > for ATK, FWIW, it was made years ago and by several developers (which I point out simply because this isn't

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 30/04/2015 10:26 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Good point. There's an alternative, though: the UA could expose it as a description only if there is no value. Once there is a value, it isn't exposed. If the value is cleared, it gets exposed again. And UAs would also have to emit a signal to indic

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 04/29/2015 06:37 PM, James Teh wrote: > On 30/04/2015 3:16 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: >> It's possible to have a name and description and placeholder. > True, but it's also possible to have multiple other things which would > normally get mapped to name or description. That's why we have > prece

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 30/04/2015 3:16 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: It's possible to have a name and description and placeholder. True, but it's also possible to have multiple other things which would normally get mapped to name or description. That's why we have precedence rules. :) Beyond that, because the plac

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hey James. On 04/29/2015 07:34 AM, James Teh wrote: > Pardon my lack of awareness here; I'm coming into this discussion cold > and am not part of the W3C working groups. Feel free to point me at a > thread or something. I'm curious as to why placeholder shouldn't be > exposed as the description b

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

I support the idea that the browser should find a best match for accessible name and description. Btw, current version of HTML a11y spec agrees on it [1]. After all there's backward compatibility issue If placeholder is exposed leaving accessible name blank. [1] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/h

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 29/04/2015 12:08 AM, Joseph Scheuhammer wrote: a few questions is aria-placeholder ever to be used as fallback for accname/description calculation? My position is that, yes, aria-placeholder text can be used as a fallback for a name, but the decision should be left to the AT. The placeholder

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hi Steve, On 2015-04-28 9:44 AM, Steve Faulkner wrote: On 28 April 2015 at 14:33, Joseph Scheuhammer > wrote: Thus, the text above regarding @placeholder vs. @aria-placeholder belongs in the HTML-AAM. gotcha, a few questions is aria-placeholder ever to be u

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hi Rich, Joseph, fyi: assuming Joanie and Alex agree on an object attribute, see below. Based on reading the rest of the email, I believe the proposal is: "When @placeholder and @aria-placeholder are both present, and @placeholder is non-empty, the user agents MUST expose the value of @pl

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 28 April 2015 at 14:33, Joseph Scheuhammer wrote: > Thus, the text above regarding @placeholder vs. @aria-placeholder belongs > in the HTML-AAM. gotcha, a few questions is aria-placeholder ever to be used as fallback for accname/description calculation? note: aria-desribedby is not used as

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 27 April 2015 at 22:40, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > I want to also consider HTML5.1 native host language semantics. If we have > an HTML5 checkbox I would think that the native placeholder attribute would > win, over aria-placeholder, as that text would be visible. > > Do you agree Steve?

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

On 04/27/2015 05:49 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote: > > On 27 April 2015 at 22:40, Richard Schwerdtfeger > wrote: > > I want to also consider HTML5.1 native host language semantics. If > we have an HTML5 checkbox I would think that the native placeholder > attribu

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Alexander Surkov Date: 04/27/2015 04:52 PM Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping On 27 April 2015 at 22:40, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: I want to also consider HTML5.1 native host language semantics. If we have an HTML5 checkbox I would

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

: Alexander Surkov Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list Date: 04/27/2015 03:32 PM Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org Hey Alex. On 04/27/2015 12:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: [...] > Also i

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hey Alex. On 04/27/2015 12:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: [...] > Also it's backward compatible approach. So does the following make sense? > > 1) If placeholder is used to label the control, i.e accessible name is > not provided otherwise then map placeholder (aria-placeholder) into > accessib

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hi, Joanie. I'm fine with that. I suggested this to make it easier for AT to detect whether placeholder is valuable as a placeholder but as long as everybody is onboard I don't really mind, especially if the it was in WebKit for a while. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: >

[Accessibility-ia2] placeholder mapping

Hi. In Firefox HTML placeholder attribute is mapped to accessible name if label is not provided (either native or ARIA one). Otherwise it's ignored. There are strong opinions that placeholder needs own mapping since it's separate concept from the accessible name and AT want to treat it special way