Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread Bill Prince
Pinterest is a black-dang buck-walloping ruck-sackin raggle-tag son of a badger pup. bp On 6/23/2020 2:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Anybody remember the comic strip Rick O'Shay? There's one where his horse gets spooked by a rabbit and throws him and he yells "Why you black-dang,

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread chuck
The draino comment would probably not make it to broadcast TV... From: can...@believewireless.net Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:46 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer In high school we came up with the "ultimate insult"... but it had to be able

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Bill Prince
A theorem is stronger than a theory, as it is based on established facts that can lead to a logical explanation. A theory is just a theory. There may be facts, but there is also a lot of gap filling (usually) involved. bp On 6/23/2020 11:32 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: In this case you could call

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread can...@believewireless.net
In high school we came up with the "ultimate insult"... but it had to be able to be said on TV. It certainly isn't PC today. Although, I don't know what insults are. "You're a fudge pack'n, woman beating, boot licking, whistle blowing, horn honking, sap sucking, cork screwing, carpet bag'n, cow

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
Anybody remember the comic strip Rick O'Shay? There's one where his horse gets spooked by a rabbit and throws him and he yells "Why you black-dang, buck-walloping', ruck-sackin', raggle-tag son of a badger pup!" And then changes his mind about not going to church that day. The books are out of

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)
Don't forget the favorite of my seminary teacher in High School: Son of a Biscuit Eater. On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 2:47 PM wrote: > They just look like florescent. They are actually led strips. > In Utah you have the following options for swearing: > Fetch > Flip > Frickin' (if you are wading

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread chuck
They just look like florescent. They are actually led strips. In Utah you have the following options for swearing: Fetch Flip Frickin' (if you are wading into PG territory) Dang Gol Darn Sugar and my favorite: Oh My Heck! -Original Message- From: Mark Radabaugh Sent: Tuesday, June

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread chuck
It is double walled, with mineral blankets. But nothing suspended. Just trying to not interrupt sleep in residential neighborhoods during night cuts. Work in progress. We will build another one for our other splice trailer once we work out the kinks. Like to be 60 dB at 10 feet. From:

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread Mark Radabaugh
Your guys get chairs? You are way too nice to them. About those fluorescent lamps though…. After the 3rd or 4th railroad track you will be picking those things up off the floor and might even take up swearing. How does that go in Utah? Golly Gee whiz snot crap? Mark > On Jun 23, 2020,

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

2020-06-23 Thread castarritt .
Neat project. Have you considered making it double walled with some sort of anti-vibration material or suspension between the inner and outer layers? On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 1:01 PM Chuck McCown wrote: > And experimental noise control box for the generator. Getting 10 dB > reduction does far.

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
And they're both stronger than a WAG. Lots of people don't understand the "scientific method", or how science differs from religion or faith. Science is based on usefulness, how well it can explain observations and make predictions. Quantum mechanics didn't prove Newtonian mechanics wrong or

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Adam Moffett
That's a good point.  With 700Mhz you might be better off with the ol' Langley-Rice prediction from Towercoverage.com or Radio Mobile. On 6/23/2020 10:06 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote: I’m a little confused by your question.LIDAR data is going to show you line-of-site locations which is not

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Adam Moffett
In this case you could call it a law because it's nothing more than a formally stated observation.  A theory tries to explain why things happen, a law is just stating what happens.  One isn't better or stronger; they're just different things. A "theory" about why gravity works is different

Re: [AFMUG] FW: Fiber Attachment Flex Clips

2020-06-23 Thread Josh Luthman
Been using g4bk-03 for our fiber. Bill at Telecrafter is pretty awesome. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 1:09 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: > I don’t make a practice of forwarding email ads I receive, but I find it

Re: [AFMUG] OT NAZI copy machine!

2020-06-23 Thread Adam Moffett
Princess Twilight Sparkle would /not/ approve. On 6/23/2020 1:16 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Maybe it's a Brony printer. https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/newsfeature/my-little-pony-fans-are-read y-to-admit-they-have-a-nazi-problem/ar-BB15RZ7q -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of

Re: [AFMUG] Extension of STA from FCC

2020-06-23 Thread David Coudron
Thanks Mark, much appreciated. We were able to do as you said below. Regards, David Coudron From: AF On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 7:39 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Extension of STA from FCC Go in the FCC license manager for your

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Brian Webster
If you have Line of Site paths to a client location you probably can get away with some of the existing bands in 2.4 or 5 GHz and have a lot more throughput capacity and not have to deal with the database. Unless you have horrendous noise levels because of other users the typical unlicensed bands

Re: [AFMUG] OT NAZI copy machine!

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
Maybe it's a Brony printer. https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/newsfeature/my-little-pony-fans-are-read y-to-admit-they-have-a-nazi-problem/ar-BB15RZ7q -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 11:46 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT

[AFMUG] FW: Fiber Attachment Flex Clips

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
I don’t make a practice of forwarding email ads I receive, but I find it interesting that Telecrafter has a complete line of their FlexClips for fiber installs now. From: Telecrafter Products Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 11:41 AM To: khoh...@kwom.com Subject: Fiber Attachment Flex Clips

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Bill Prince
At this point, the so-called "development" of TVWS is little more than an extremely long-duration beta test. I would now be looking toward Starlink as being a viable alternative as long as the service area(s) is/are not absolutely buried in trees. I am expecting Starlink service to be

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread D. Bernardi
That makes sense. Thank you. At 11:17 AM 6/23/2020, you wrote: Yes - an open area will give you a stronger signal. As long as a radio signal is above the detection threshold (the signal is strong enough for the radio to detect) and the SNR is high enough to support the modulation it will

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread D. Bernardi
The areas I'm initially considering are NLOS and this exercise was just for considering TVWS only so I wasn't necessarily referring to frequency/gain impacts. If TVWS has the same level of performance (and resulting range) with 1 tree or a dense forest between base station and CPE, that

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
I was actually repeating your advice from past threads. Maybe we can call it "McCown's Theorem". Nope, better make that "McCown's Law". The anti-science segment of society takes the word "theorem" to mean "unsubstantiated nonsense". -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread chuck
I calculated it once. Always good to go up in frequency if antenna gain and path loss are the only considerations. If you increase the frequency, it works out that the system margin increases by the increase of gain of one of the antennas assuming identical antennas at both ends.

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
Lower frequencies do have lower free space loss, but for the same size antenna you have less antenna gain. And with 2 antennas (xmt and rcv), antenna gain wins. All else being equal, higher frequency usually wins. Of course with TVWS you usually accept using ginormous antennas. I think people

Re: [AFMUG] VPN?

2020-06-23 Thread castarritt .
We don't troubleshoot performance issues if the customer is going through a VPN. If the router is setup for a VPN, I would have him bypass it. On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:14 AM Colin Stanners wrote: > Sounds like a whole-router VPN solution. Answer: "VPNs will often slow you > down, because

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Mark Radabaugh
Yes - an open area will give you a stronger signal. As long as a radio signal is above the detection threshold (the signal is strong enough for the radio to detect) and the SNR is high enough to support the modulation it will perform to specification (assuming the manufacturer provided

Re: [AFMUG] VPN?

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
I should also mention that having all traffic going over a UDP tunnel seems to mess with Preseem. I couldn’t figure out why the latency graph for this customer showed “No Data”, then realized Preseem uses TCP packet-to-ACK latency for this. Also all of Preseem’s fancy QoE algorithms are

Re: [AFMUG] VPN?

2020-06-23 Thread Colin Stanners
Sounds like a whole-router VPN solution. Answer: "VPNs will often slow you down, because they add extra processing and extra routers in the path, so expect lower performance or problems until you fix that issue". On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: > One remote IP. My attempts to

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread D. Bernardi
Clearly RF isn't my specialty... Instead of SNR I guess I really meant noise. If the noise floor is equal wouldn't there be less attenuation of the signal in an open environment (resulting in a better SNR)? At 10:41 AM 6/23/2020, you wrote: > On Jun 23, 2020, at 10:32 AM, D. Bernardi

Re: [AFMUG] VPN?

2020-06-23 Thread Ken Hohhof
One remote IP. My attempts to determine the netblock owner come up with VPN-CONSUMER-NETWORK and AS32181 GigeNET, if I’m reading the info correctly. If I block that src/dst combination at the tower router, after a short time another pops up to replace it. Until that happens, all Internet

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Mark Radabaugh
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 10:32 AM, D. Bernardi wrote: > > > > I was thinking more in terms of foliage or other object density, or > mountains/hills, to help estimate range. Wouldn't TVWS still have better > performance in an open area compared to dense forest given equal SNR? > If SNR is

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread D. Bernardi
I was thinking more in terms of foliage or other object density, or mountains/hills, to help estimate range. Wouldn't TVWS still have better performance in an open area compared to dense forest given equal SNR? At 10:06 AM 6/23/2020, you wrote: I’m a little confused by your

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread Mark Radabaugh
I’m a little confused by your question.LIDAR data is going to show you line-of-site locations which is not what TVWS gear is best used for servicing. LIDAR data only makes sense in identifying the areas you can’t serve with other gear. I suppose it gives you a ’negative’ view of the

Re: [AFMUG] TVWS feasibility

2020-06-23 Thread D. Bernardi
Hi, I appreciate all the feedback. RADWIN is still in beta and will not have product until Q4. Redline does have production gear and I'm still gathering their information. Would it make sense to build/buy an analyzer for collecting site specific data over a few days and couple that with

Re: [AFMUG] Extension of STA from FCC

2020-06-23 Thread Mark Radabaugh
Go in the FCC license manager for your STA. It should have a button saying “Eligible for renewal”. Click that link to renew the application. You will need to submit a (new) letter saying why you still need the STA and a letter listing the specific counties you will be operating the STA

[AFMUG] Extension of STA from FCC

2020-06-23 Thread David Coudron
Hi folks, We were granted an STA for the 5850-5895 Mhz frequencies and are nearing the end of the 60 day grant window. We haven't heard much about the extensions or possible permanent extension of the STA's. When this was rolled out, there was a lot of discussion that these may be extended