Re: Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Alex Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 2017-07-09 at 13:58 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > > > Proto CFJ "After Proposal 5111 got enacted, there have been no > > > > Officeholders." > > > > > > Just a

Re: Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Alex Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2017-07-09 at 13:58 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > > Proto CFJ "After Proposal 5111 got enacted, there have been no > > > Officeholders." > > > > Just as a factual note, Proposal 5111 re-introduced switche

Re: Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2017-07-09 at 13:58 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > Proto CFJ "After Proposal 5111 got enacted, there have been no > > Officeholders." > > Just as a factual note, Proposal 5111 re-introduced switches, but  > didn't put switches in the Officer rule. >

Re: Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: > Proto CFJ "After Proposal 5111 got enacted, there have been no Officeholders." Just as a factual note, Proposal 5111 re-introduced switches, but didn't put switches in the Officer rule. Switches weren't introduced into the Officer rule until Proposal 75

Re: Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Alex Smith
On Sun, 2017-07-09 at 09:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam wrote: > I checked the proposal history. There has been a time where Switches had > higher Power than Offices, making its switch not a switch, ergo, there have > been no Officeholders since (Possibly?). Why would Switches having a higher power than Of

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Cuddle Beam
Assuming that its implicit isn't to "specify" it though. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/specify:"Identify clearly and definitely." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/specify: "to name or state explicitly or in detail" http://www.dictionary.com/browse/specify: "to mention o

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Ørjan Johansen wrote: > On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > > Additionally, such a Ratification would've attempted to Ratify the Ruleset > > (as in, the whole Ruleset), at once. But it wouldn't have been able to > > happen, because, " The number of the new rule cannot

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Ørjan Johansen
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote: Additionally, such a Ratification would've attempted to Ratify the Ruleset (as in, the whole Ruleset), at once. But it wouldn't have been able to happen, because, " The number of the new rule cannot be specified by the enacting instrument; any attempt to so

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Cuddle Beam
Well, OK. We might we going in circles now lol. I'll compile this up and make a CFJ then. Thank you very much PSS, I appreciate the insight a lot. It helped me find quite a lot of more interesting stuff for the case. On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 2:37 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus < p.scribonius.sc

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
Ratification doesn’t modify anything, it just makes something true without the need for any process to occur. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On Jul 9, 2017, at 7:56 AM, CuddleBeam wrote: > > > Yes, however the action of Ratifying itself wouldn't ha

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Cuddle Beam
> > " That or the Ratification actually didn't add Rules, but that would > contradict "When a document is ratified, the gamestate is modified so that > the ratified document was completely true and accurate at the time it was > published. Nevertheless, the ratification of a document does not > inva

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread CuddleBeam
Yes, however the action of Ratifying itself wouldn't have been able to happen because it would've attempted to change the rules, with are preconditions in the rules that already existed for the ratification itself to take place. Imagine we added that: "Ratification can't be performed by anyone.",

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
However, ratification would make it true and overrides the Rule Changes rule because with ratification it never changes anything, it makes things true instantaneously. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On Jul 9, 2017, at 7:22 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Cuddle Beam
From: http://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg00165.html , it contains Proposal 5101, which passed and amended the whole rule on August 1st and there was no other change until September - right at the timeframe of the vulnerability. So I got the Ratification rules of back then

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
The ruleset has probably been ratified since Proposal 5111 resolving that problem. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On Jul 9, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > I checked the proposal history. There has been a time where Switches had > higher P

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
In that case, there would have been no officers while it had a higher power, but afterwards officers would return. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On Jul 9, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: > > I checked the proposal history. There has been a tim

Re: Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-07-09 Thread Cuddle Beam
I checked the proposal history. There has been a time where Switches had higher Power than Offices, making its switch not a switch, ergo, there have been no Officeholders since (Possibly?). Of course this would screw over a lot of things, would it be so, but everything we're doing wouldn't actuall

Re: DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-06-29 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
It uses an implied default of empty and given that it takes precedence per Rule 1030, I believe that is fine. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On Jun 29, 2017, at 12:59 PM, CuddleBeam wrote: > > R2162 states that: > > "A type of switch is a property

DIS: We actually have no Officeholders.

2017-06-29 Thread CuddleBeam
R2162 states that: "A type of switch is a property that the rules define as a switch, and specify the following: (...) 2. One or more possible values for instances of that switch, exactly one of which is designated as the default. " So stating a default is required for a Switch to be a Switch. R