Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Memes
Proposals take effect clause by clause via this part of 106: Except as prohibited by other rules, a proposal that takes effect CAN and does, as part of its effect, apply the changes that it specifies. That prohibition is generally applied to proposals clause by clause. So doesn't the proposal taking effect amount to "Except as prohibited by other rules (Rules or Instruments to the contrary notwithstanding...)" which basically neuters the proposal's claim of precedence? On Wed, 14 Nov 2018, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: > On Wed, 2018-11-14 at 14:12 +1100, Rebecca wrote: > > It's not really a meme it's just the sort of joke proposal that I > > like but I know won't get passed. > > This sort of joke proposal actually passes surprisingly often, and > frequently threatens to do a lot of damage to the gamestate when it > does (e.g. "repeal all rules" has passed often enough that we have > specific countermeasures in the ruleset nowadays to prevent that > specific wording from working; it's often been something close to luck > that has prevented it destroying Agora in the past). As such, it may be > best avoided because sometimes Agorans need saving from themselves. > > I'm particularly suspicious that the proposal a) attempts to override > Agora Is A Nomic and b) is highly susceptible to timing scams. This > means that it's quite likely someone will attempt to gain a > dictatorship with it, which would be a very good reason to vote it down > (and even if you're not trying that yourself, likely someone else > will). > > -- > ais523 > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Memes
You could probably enact a rule with a similar text to the quoted proposal that amends itself to contain the text of the most current Memes submission. That would probably work closer to the way you intended. On 11/13/2018 08:08 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote: On Mon, 12 Nov 2018, Rebecca wrote: I create the following proposal Title: I hate myself AI: 3 Text: Rules or Instruments to the contrary notwithstanding, this proposal shall act as though its text is the text submitted to a public forum and clearly marked "Memes submission" by the last person to vote FOR it. I don't think Proposals can take precedence over Rules, regardless of AI. However, I am not sure that this actually _does_ conflict with any Rules, if the Memes submission is written clearly enough. (The second last paragraph of Rule 105 seems relevant.) (Also I don't follow the memesphere so I might be being whooshed about something.) Greetings, Ørjan. -- Trigon
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Memes
On Wed, 2018-11-14 at 14:12 +1100, Rebecca wrote: > It's not really a meme it's just the sort of joke proposal that I > like but I know won't get passed. This sort of joke proposal actually passes surprisingly often, and frequently threatens to do a lot of damage to the gamestate when it does (e.g. "repeal all rules" has passed often enough that we have specific countermeasures in the ruleset nowadays to prevent that specific wording from working; it's often been something close to luck that has prevented it destroying Agora in the past). As such, it may be best avoided because sometimes Agorans need saving from themselves. I'm particularly suspicious that the proposal a) attempts to override Agora Is A Nomic and b) is highly susceptible to timing scams. This means that it's quite likely someone will attempt to gain a dictatorship with it, which would be a very good reason to vote it down (and even if you're not trying that yourself, likely someone else will). -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Memes
It's not really a meme it's just the sort of joke proposal that I like but I know won't get passed. On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 2:08 PM Ørjan Johansen wrote: > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018, Rebecca wrote: > > > I create the following proposal > > Title: I hate myself > > AI: 3 > > Text: Rules or Instruments to the contrary notwithstanding, this proposal > > shall act as though its text is the text submitted to a public forum and > > clearly marked "Memes submission" by the last person to vote FOR it. > > I don't think Proposals can take precedence over Rules, regardless of AI. > > However, I am not sure that this actually _does_ conflict with any Rules, > if the Memes submission is written clearly enough. (The second last > paragraph of Rule 105 seems relevant.) > > (Also I don't follow the memesphere so I might be being whooshed about > something.) > > Greetings, > Ørjan. > -- >From V.J. Rada
DIS: Re: BUS: Memes
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018, Rebecca wrote: I create the following proposal Title: I hate myself AI: 3 Text: Rules or Instruments to the contrary notwithstanding, this proposal shall act as though its text is the text submitted to a public forum and clearly marked "Memes submission" by the last person to vote FOR it. I don't think Proposals can take precedence over Rules, regardless of AI. However, I am not sure that this actually _does_ conflict with any Rules, if the Memes submission is written clearly enough. (The second last paragraph of Rule 105 seems relevant.) (Also I don't follow the memesphere so I might be being whooshed about something.) Greetings, Ørjan.
DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Back to one vote
Given that the reason for the voting change had nothing to do with coins, why not adjust the coin reward part instead of undoing the voting part? On Tue, 13 Nov 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > So this is having some unintended interactions with the rule about earning > coins. My current Assessor draft, for example, has Trigon earning 147 coins > for eir proposals this week, because votes are multiplied by the voting > strength. Which, I mean, good for em, but it kind of overshadows all the > other aspects of the game. > > I submit the following proposal: > > // > Title: Back to one vote > Adoption index: 3.0 > Author: twg > Co-authors: Murphy > > Amend Rule 2422 (Voting Strength) by replacing this text: > > If not otherwise specified, the voting strength of an entity on an > Agoran decision is 3. > > with this text: > > If not otherwise specified, the voting strength of an entity on an > Agoran decision is 1. > > // > > Sorry Murphy. I liked it in principle but it caused more problems than it > solved. > > -twg >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Elections
CFJ 3663 (I think?) that I judged recently (can't remember which) that if
the Actor is explicitly named, and it's clear (with "on behalf") that it's an
act-on-behalf, the grammar of "On behalf of pokes, pokes does..." versus
"on behalf of pokes, I do" is inconsequential variation.
(It's based on the exact requirements of R2466).
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I vote {ATMunn, D. Margaux, Murphy} for PM.
> >
> > On behalf of pokes, pokes votes Endorse G. in the PM election.
>
> Does this work? Intention is clear, but reads like e’s voting on behalf of
> emself.
>
> Gaelan
>
> >
> > On Sun, 11 Nov 2018, Edward Murphy wrote:
> >> I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Prime Minister
> >> election.
> >> * Vote Collector is ADoP
> >> * Valid options are ATMunn, D. Margaux, G., Murphy
> >> * Voting method is instant runoff
> >>
> >> In the above election, I vote for Me.
> >>
> >> I initiate elections for:
> >> * Arbitor (held interim by D. Margaux since Oct 20)
> >> * Referee (held interim by twg since Nov 1)
> >> * Registrar (held interim by G. since Nov 5)
> >> * Rulekeepor (held interim by Trigon since Oct 14)
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: Elections
> On Nov 13, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>
>
> I vote {ATMunn, D. Margaux, Murphy} for PM.
>
> On behalf of pokes, pokes votes Endorse G. in the PM election.
Does this work? Intention is clear, but reads like e’s voting on behalf of
emself.
Gaelan
>
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2018, Edward Murphy wrote:
>> I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Prime Minister
>> election.
>> * Vote Collector is ADoP
>> * Valid options are ATMunn, D. Margaux, G., Murphy
>> * Voting method is instant runoff
>>
>> In the above election, I vote for Me.
>>
>> I initiate elections for:
>> * Arbitor (held interim by D. Margaux since Oct 20)
>> * Referee (held interim by twg since Nov 1)
>> * Registrar (held interim by G. since Nov 5)
>> * Rulekeepor (held interim by Trigon since Oct 14)
>>
>>
>
