RE: DIS: Agora XX: 13th and final report

2013-07-03 Thread Steven Gardner
My dim recollection is that it took a kind of high level scam (in the sense of loophole exploitation, there was no attempt to win) to move away from the Mutable/Immutable distinction. But we didn't get straight to the Power system - that came later. The intermediate stage involved the definition

DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
[ A replacement Ribbons system in which all awards are hard. Some of the easier Photons are the same difficulty as some of the harder Ribbons. I've tried to cover the full range of ways of participating in Agora, but the requirement of no easy awards means there's nothing to do with judging a case

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: [ A replacement Ribbons system in which all awards are hard. Some of the easier Photons are the same difficulty as some of the harder Ribbons. I've tried to cover the full range of ways of participating in Agora,

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 3 July 2013 16:09, Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: [ A replacement Ribbons system in which all awards are hard. Some of the easier Photons are the same difficulty as some of the harder Ribbons.

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Er, not sure what you're on about. I'm aware of the fix proposal and the proposal to repeal Ribbons. I was protoing this in the expectation that the latter will pass. -- Walker I mean the 2010-ish version.

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 3 July 2013 16:31, Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Er, not sure what you're on about. I'm aware of the fix proposal and the proposal to repeal Ribbons. I was protoing this in the expectation that

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I just looked at a couple of 2010 SLRs. Looks similar to the current Ribbons. What about it? -- Walker Among other things, a thesis was required. -scshunt

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 3 July 2013 16:39, Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I just looked at a couple of 2010 SLRs. Looks similar to the current Ribbons. What about it? -- Walker Among other things, a thesis was

RE: DIS: Agora XX: 13th and final report

2013-07-03 Thread Ørjan Johansen
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Steven Gardner wrote: My dim recollection is that it took a kind of high level scam (in the sense of loophole exploitation, there was no attempt to win) to move away from the Mutable/Immutable distinction. But we didn't get straight to the Power system - that came later. The

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Charles Walker wrote: The Herald is the recordkeeper of Photons. I think this goes too far the other direction. Looking for a middle ground. Here's the suggestions I posted a couple weeks ago: On Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Kerim Aydin wrote: Had a pass on possible Ribbon

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Matt Berlin
Are objects of this type (Ribbons, and Yaks for that matter) considered inherently transferable, or does a rule need to exist to make them so? Matthew Berlin arkes...@gmail.com 535 Misty Patch Rd. Coatesville, PA 19320 (484) 832-1055 On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Kerim Aydin

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Matt Berlin arkes...@gmail.com wrote: Are objects of this type (Ribbons, and Yaks for that matter) considered inherently transferable, or does a rule need to exist to make them so? Assets are transferable unless defined as fixed. -scshunt

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
By default they are transferable (liquid). But if the rules define them as fixed, they are not transferable. Ribbons are fixed (R2387 first sentence), Yaks are liquid since nothing calls them fixed. This is defined in the second-to-last paragraph in Rule 2166 (Assets). On Wed, 3 Jul 2013,

DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement, CFJ 3343

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Sean Hunt wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Ed Murphy emurph...@socal.rr.com wrote: 3343: FALSE If any party's constitution actually authorized party members to act on its behalf, then such an inference would be valid. However, no party's constitution

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 3352 assigned to scshunt

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:35 PM, omd c.ome...@gmail.com wrote: Second, does authorizing scshunt to perform a complicated action that includes awarding a Patent Title count as authorizing em to award a Patent Title? In that case, there would be no Power issue. Arguments: Even if it does, the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 3352 assigned to scshunt

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Sean Hunt wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:35 PM, omd c.ome...@gmail.com wrote: Second, does authorizing scshunt to perform a complicated action that includes awarding a Patent Title count as authorizing em to award a Patent Title? In that case, there would be no Power

DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 11:39 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: I create the following promise and transfer it to G.: * Text: I act as specified by the casher in the same message as the cashing. * Title: Murphy 20130703 Trust Fund * Condition to cash: The casher is a player

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 19:56 +0100, Alex Smith wrote: I guess the answer is to make it generic enough that although people know of it's existence, it's unclear what it will be used for. Wow, I haven't made that particular typo in /years/. -- ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Alex Smith wrote: I was wondering how you created a submarine contract using promises. What exactly do you mean by a submarine contract? Just a private one? Or something else. -G.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 12:03 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Alex Smith wrote: I was wondering how you created a submarine contract using promises. What exactly do you mean by a submarine contract? Just a private one? Or something else. -G. Basically an agreement to do

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Alex Smith wrote: On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 12:03 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Alex Smith wrote: I was wondering how you created a submarine contract using promises. What exactly do you mean by a submarine contract? Just a private one? Or

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 12:59 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Ah, when you said 'contract', I thought you meant something enforceable, which the promise can't do (but private contracts could). That is, if Murphy and I made a private agreement resulting in this PoA, but I abuse the PoA outside of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Elliott Hird
You could probably use encryption to get all of it.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Alex Smith wrote: On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 12:59 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Ah, when you said 'contract', I thought you meant something enforceable, which the promise can't do (but private contracts could). That is, if Murphy and I made a private agreement resulting in

Re: DIS: Proto: Photons (i.e. Ribbons Hard Mode)

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 3 July 2013 18:32, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Charles Walker wrote: The Herald is the recordkeeper of Photons. I think this goes too far the other direction. Looking for a middle ground. Here's the suggestions I posted a couple weeks ago: Well, as I

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 13:13 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: Would the following meet the reasonably available test: Conditions for Cashing: the message is within the bounds of messages allowed by the private NONDEAD agreement. This is assumed to be true unless the author publicly CoEs

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Elliott Hird
On 3 July 2013 22:11, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I think ehird's suggestion works, though; you could promise I perform the specified action with the sha-1 hash long hex string here. For bonus points, you could even transfer it to the Tree, leaving it unclear who you'd made the promise

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Power of attorney

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 22:25 +0100, Elliott Hird wrote: On 3 July 2013 22:11, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I think ehird's suggestion works, though; you could promise I perform the specified action with the sha-1 hash long hex string here. For bonus points, you could even transfer it

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 3352 assigned to scshunt

2013-07-03 Thread omd
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: Arguments: Even if it does, the award is pragmatic, and since the Herald did not award Renascent to me before I awarded myself a Transparent Ribbon, the award still succeeds. It's not the Herald that would be

DIS: Sudden epiphany

2013-07-03 Thread Ørjan Johansen
Agora is older than Eternal September... Greetings, Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement, CFJ 3343

2013-07-03 Thread Ørjan Johansen
On Wed, 3 Jul 2013, Sean Hunt wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Ed Murphy emurph...@socal.rr.com wrote: 3343: FALSE If any party's constitution actually authorized party members to act on its behalf, then such an inference would be valid. However, no party's constitution currently does

DIS: Re: BUS: hi oerjan

2013-07-03 Thread Ørjan Johansen
On Thu, 4 Jul 2013, Elliott Hird wrote: I intend, with 3 elder support, to declare a gerontocracy. Is the joke that I've been a Player before y'all and still am not an Elder? (Or even registered.) Greetings, Ørjan.

DIS: Re: BUS: CoE re: [IADoP] Personnel File Time Sheet

2013-07-03 Thread Jonathan Rouillard
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Good spot. I initiate an election for Ambassador at Large and nominate myself. Manifesto: - I'll actively search for foreign nomics and attempt to recognise them, while maintaining strict criteria for which

DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
AGAINST until the party bug is fixed. -scshunt On Jul 3, 2013 9:33 PM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I submit the following proposal and request that the H. Promotor distribute it as soon as possible, because waiting four days for support actions for the next month might

DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Thu, 2013-07-04 at 02:33 +0100, Charles Walker wrote: I submit the following proposal and request that the H. Promotor distribute it as soon as possible, because waiting four days for support actions for the next month might get annoying. (It would not violate R1607 to distribute this

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: hi oerjan

2013-07-03 Thread Elliott Hird
On 4 July 2013 02:06, Ørjan Johansen oer...@nvg.ntnu.no wrote: Is the joke that I've been a Player before y'all and still am not an Elder? (Or even registered.) The joke is that I needed a subject line and am tired. But you should totally register!

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Thu, 2013-07-04 at 02:33 +0100, Charles Walker wrote: I submit the following proposal and request that the H. Promotor distribute it as soon as possible, because waiting four days for support actions for the next month

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 4 July 2013 02:40, Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Thu, 2013-07-04 at 02:33 +0100, Charles Walker wrote: I submit the following proposal and request that the H. Promotor distribute it as soon as possible,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 21:40 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: You're requesting speedy distribution without paying the fee for speedy distribution? There's a fee? I thought the idea behind proposal fees was that the proposals with

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
There's no fee for disinterested proposals; I'm not sure what happened to the proposal to distribute interested proposals for free (MI permitting). -- Walker Passed, I believe.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 4 July 2013 02:46, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Wed, 2013-07-03 at 21:40 -0400, Sean Hunt wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: You're requesting speedy distribution without paying the fee for speedy distribution? There's a fee? I thought

DIS: Re: BUS: Inflationary Party

2013-07-03 Thread omd
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:39 PM, woggle woggl...@gmail.com wrote: I intend, with two Independent Support, to form the Inflationary Party with the following Constitution: Heh... I had the same idea, but I was going to wait until the wins for Yaks proposal passed.

DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement, CFJ 3343

2013-07-03 Thread Sean Hunt
Got to wait 4 days... On Jul 3, 2013 9:56 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Thu, 2013-07-04 at 02:50 +0100, Charles Walker wrote: On 3 July 2013 19:21, Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Ed Murphy emurph...@socal.rr.com wrote: 3343:

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread omd
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Amend Rule 2410 (Parties) by replacing Party members SHALL obey their party's constitution. with Party members SHALL obey their party's constitution, except where this would cause them to violate a Rule in the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Charles Walker
On 4 July 2013 03:01, omd c.ome...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Amend Rule 2410 (Parties) by replacing Party members SHALL obey their party's constitution. with Party members SHALL obey their party's constitution, except

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Gerontocracy Fix

2013-07-03 Thread Fool
On 03/07/2013 10:07 PM, Charles Walker wrote: On 4 July 2013 03:01, omdc.ome...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Amend Rule 2410 (Parties) by replacing Party members SHALL obey their party's constitution. with Party members

DIS: Re: BUS: Activity

2013-07-03 Thread omd
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I act. FYI, as Registrar, I am not treating this as making you active.