Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
Damn, I would have definitely joined the contract lmao On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:47 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 7/14/2020 3:03 PM, ATMunn via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 7/14/2020 5:58 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: > >> On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business > >> wrote: > >>> Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a > >>> high amount of people to work... > >> > >> For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than > >> leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate > >> Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new > >> players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the > >> assets used to win, not create new ones. > >> > > > > Maybe when a sets victory happens, all Victory Cards and Victory Points > > are destroyed but all others remain the same? > > Part of the purpose of the reset was to occasionally relevel the whole > economy. It helps keeps things balanced. Otherwise, if (for example) > we've got the rate of pendant production too high, then after a couple > months pendants are so cheap that no one cares anymore. The alternative > is more hands-on adaptive management (e.g. things like taxes when there's > an oversupply). > > But yeah, looks like wins are set too cheaply compared to the # in > circulation at the start of each reset, so either raise the win threshold > or lower the initial handout. > > That being said, 8 people can almost always force a win if they want, just > by a proposal. The reason they don't do that all the time is it's too > boring and a boring win isn't worth doing? So maybe the contract won't > even find 7 others interested enough to trade their current possessions > for a win, so on a meta-economic level it might work out fine. > > -G. > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
On 7/14/2020 3:03 PM, ATMunn via agora-discussion wrote: > On 7/14/2020 5:58 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: >> On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business >> wrote: >>> Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a >>> high amount of people to work... >> >> For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than >> leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate >> Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new >> players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the >> assets used to win, not create new ones. >> > > Maybe when a sets victory happens, all Victory Cards and Victory Points > are destroyed but all others remain the same? Part of the purpose of the reset was to occasionally relevel the whole economy. It helps keeps things balanced. Otherwise, if (for example) we've got the rate of pendant production too high, then after a couple months pendants are so cheap that no one cares anymore. The alternative is more hands-on adaptive management (e.g. things like taxes when there's an oversupply). But yeah, looks like wins are set too cheaply compared to the # in circulation at the start of each reset, so either raise the win threshold or lower the initial handout. That being said, 8 people can almost always force a win if they want, just by a proposal. The reason they don't do that all the time is it's too boring and a boring win isn't worth doing? So maybe the contract won't even find 7 others interested enough to trade their current possessions for a win, so on a meta-economic level it might work out fine. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
On 7/14/2020 5:58 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a high amount of people to work... For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the assets used to win, not create new ones. Maybe when a sets victory happens, all Victory Cards and Victory Points are destroyed but all others remain the same? -- ATMunn friendly neighborhood notary and Czar of Russia :)
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
for context, it wasn't just Jason (I wouldn't have minded if just one player was against it) but others on the Discord server as well On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 11:58 PM ais523 via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business > wrote: > > Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a > > high amount of people to work... > > For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than > leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate > Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new > players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the > assets used to win, not create new ones. > > -- > ais523 > >
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a > high amount of people to work... For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the assets used to win, not create new ones. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019, Cuddle Beam wrote: I editted it to point out the specific rule but is it really necessary? I thought it would be unambiguous where the edit was supposed to be. Just curious about if there's a formal reason for it. Hm, I think you're technically correct, although it's still seems bad form not to include it. Greetings, Ørjan.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
I editted it to point out the specific rule but is it really necessary? I thought it would be unambiguous where the edit was supposed to be. Just curious about if there's a formal reason for it. On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 5:26 AM Aris Merchant < thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote: > This is incorrectly punctuated (see the large hole in the middle?) and > doesn't mention a specific rule. > > The Promotor > > On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 12:38 AM Cuddle Beam wrote: > > > > Closing up a loophole for winning a bajillion times via Space Battles, > > because once you win via Fame, your Fame isn't reset. You can still win > > again and again and again through it - which I would've totally > attempted > > to do, but I heavily doubt I have the patience to reach 10/-10 Fame in > the > > first place anyways. > > > > So, instead of possibly applauding me in the future for a clever > loophole, > > you can save the wait and applaud me now instead. > > > > I make the following proposal: > > > > Title: [Seductive yodeling noises] > > Content: > > Change "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN win the game With > 2 Days > > Notice." to "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN Become One > With > > The Cosmos With 2 Days Notice > > > > When a player Becomes One With The Cosmos, if their Fame is either 10 or > > -10, their Fame is set to 0 and they win the game." >
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
This is incorrectly punctuated (see the large hole in the middle?) and doesn't mention a specific rule. The Promotor On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 12:38 AM Cuddle Beam wrote: > > Closing up a loophole for winning a bajillion times via Space Battles, > because once you win via Fame, your Fame isn't reset. You can still win > again and again and again through it - which I would've totally attempted > to do, but I heavily doubt I have the patience to reach 10/-10 Fame in the > first place anyways. > > So, instead of possibly applauding me in the future for a clever loophole, > you can save the wait and applaud me now instead. > > I make the following proposal: > > Title: [Seductive yodeling noises] > Content: > Change "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN win the game With 2 Days > Notice." to "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN Become One With > The Cosmos With 2 Days Notice > > When a player Becomes One With The Cosmos, if their Fame is either 10 or > -10, their Fame is set to 0 and they win the game."
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
On Tue, 2019-02-05 at 08:37 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote: > You could pull off a scam with ratification without objection (have a > legitimate excuse to ratify your coin holdings; get it ratified; go > on a spending spree; ratify again) Ratification doesn't set your current holdings to the ratified value, though. It sets your current holdings to the value you'd have if the ratified value had been correct at the time. So you'd have the ratified value minus the amount you'd spent on the spending spree, i.e. still the correct value. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
You could pull off a scam with ratification without objection (have a legitimate excuse to ratify your coin holdings; get it ratified; go on a spending spree; ratify again) Gaelan > On Feb 5, 2019, at 8:22 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > You're good on the validity for the contest! > > More broadly, during the win-by-Apathy glut in the fall, it came up that > dependent actions in general have this issue (A single announcement of > intent lets you perform the action as many times as you want, as long as the > intent dependencies (and other conditions) are met). > > Is this bug or feature? For the most part, it's just these sorts of Wins > that are affected. Most other actions, I don't think you gain anything or > have a security hole - it's not like, say, repeatedly ratifying the same > document gets you anywhere or creates any game problems. So other than for > some win conditions (which should be fixed for each win by appropriate > resets like your proposal), are there any places that this matters? > > -G. > >> On 2/5/2019 2:34 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: >> Attn: Herald >> - I retract the proposal below. (Because maybe its not valid to be >> submitted because it’s already in transit to be fixed? I dunno.) >> - I point out the loophole exposed below for the contest. >> - I then submit the proposal below. >>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 09:38, Cuddle Beam wrote: >>> Closing up a loophole for winning a bajillion times via Space Battles, >>> because once you win via Fame, your Fame isn't reset. You can still win >>> again and again and again through it - which I would've totally attempted >>> to do, but I heavily doubt I have the patience to reach 10/-10 Fame in the >>> first place anyways. >>> >>> So, instead of possibly applauding me in the future for a clever loophole, >>> you can save the wait and applaud me now instead. >>> >>> I make the following proposal: >>> >>> Title: [Seductive yodeling noises] >>> Content: >>> Change "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN win the game With 2 >>> Days >>> Notice." to "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN Become One With >>> The Cosmos With 2 Days Notice >>> >>> When a player Becomes One With The Cosmos, if their Fame is either 10 or >>> -10, their Fame is set to 0 and they win the game." >>>
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
You're good on the validity for the contest! More broadly, during the win-by-Apathy glut in the fall, it came up that dependent actions in general have this issue (A single announcement of intent lets you perform the action as many times as you want, as long as the intent dependencies (and other conditions) are met). Is this bug or feature? For the most part, it's just these sorts of Wins that are affected. Most other actions, I don't think you gain anything or have a security hole - it's not like, say, repeatedly ratifying the same document gets you anywhere or creates any game problems. So other than for some win conditions (which should be fixed for each win by appropriate resets like your proposal), are there any places that this matters? -G. On 2/5/2019 2:34 AM, Cuddle Beam wrote: Attn: Herald - I retract the proposal below. (Because maybe its not valid to be submitted because it’s already in transit to be fixed? I dunno.) - I point out the loophole exposed below for the contest. - I then submit the proposal below. On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 09:38, Cuddle Beam wrote: Closing up a loophole for winning a bajillion times via Space Battles, because once you win via Fame, your Fame isn't reset. You can still win again and again and again through it - which I would've totally attempted to do, but I heavily doubt I have the patience to reach 10/-10 Fame in the first place anyways. So, instead of possibly applauding me in the future for a clever loophole, you can save the wait and applaud me now instead. I make the following proposal: Title: [Seductive yodeling noises] Content: Change "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN win the game With 2 Days Notice." to "Any player whose Fame is either 10 or -10 CAN Become One With The Cosmos With 2 Days Notice When a player Becomes One With The Cosmos, if their Fame is either 10 or -10, their Fame is set to 0 and they win the game."
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Cuddle Beam wrote: When a player Becomes One With The Cosmos, if their Fame is either 10 or -10, their Fame is set to 0 and they win the game." Please use proper Agoran pronouns. Greetings, Ørjan.
