Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Hongwei Xi
>>perhaps caching constraint solving and the like would be a good idea?

Definitely. Right now, patsopt typechecks the prelude files every time when
it is called.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 6:42 PM Vanessa McHale 
wrote:

> This is an aside, but perhaps caching constraint solving and the like
> would be a good idea? I know Agda will not re-typecheck a module dependency
> unless it is touched.
> On 10/22/18 4:05 PM, Brandon Barker wrote:
>
> Seems to be on of the big arguments for using Go. Of course ATS will
> (rightly) never match the simplicity criteria that they strive for.
>
> Though I imagine for more "complicated" scripts typechecking/constraint
> solving may become the predominant portion of time spent among compiling
> and running code (at least in some cases). Though in this case, it probably
> is less likely to qualify as a script ;-).
>
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 1:51:20 PM UTC-4, gmhwxi wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes. Please use v0.9.26. TCC v0.9.25 is buggy and should be
>> avoided.
>>
>> I like TCC a lot. It is a pity that it does not get maintained these days.
>>
>> With TCC, I often use ATS for scripting. Once adequate lib support is
>> put into place, I feel that ATS can work very well for the need of shell
>> scripting
>> and beyond.
>>
>> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 3:34:29 AM UTC-4, Chris Double wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi <...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT
>>> > build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active
>>> development:
>>>
>>> Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/
>>>
>>> It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would suit a
>>> REPL:
>>>
>>> https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc
>>> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h
>>> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://bluishcoder.co.nz
>>>
>> --
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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Hongwei Xi
>>Of course ATS will (rightly) never match the simplicity criteria that
they strive for.

I won't give up so quickly :)

Go is a fine language. But Go lacks what I call "high mechanism" that can
greatly increase
one's programming productivity.

With enhanced type inference and embeddable templates, I feel that ATS3 has
a very good chance
to be competitive when compared with Go (and others) regarding those
simplicity criteria.


On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Brandon Barker 
wrote:

> Seems to be on of the big arguments for using Go. Of course ATS will
> (rightly) never match the simplicity criteria that they strive for.
>
> Though I imagine for more "complicated" scripts typechecking/constraint
> solving may become the predominant portion of time spent among compiling
> and running code (at least in some cases). Though in this case, it probably
> is less likely to qualify as a script ;-).
>
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 1:51:20 PM UTC-4, gmhwxi wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes. Please use v0.9.26. TCC v0.9.25 is buggy and should be
>> avoided.
>>
>> I like TCC a lot. It is a pity that it does not get maintained these days.
>>
>> With TCC, I often use ATS for scripting. Once adequate lib support is
>> put into place, I feel that ATS can work very well for the need of shell
>> scripting
>> and beyond.
>>
>> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 3:34:29 AM UTC-4, Chris Double wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi <...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT
>>> > build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active
>>> development:
>>>
>>> Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/
>>>
>>> It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would suit a
>>> REPL:
>>>
>>> https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc
>>> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h
>>> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://bluishcoder.co.nz
>>>
>> --
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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Chris Double
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:05 AM Brandon Barker
 wrote:
> Though I imagine for more "complicated" scripts typechecking/constraint 
> solving may become the predominant portion of time spent among compiling and 
> running code (at least in some cases). Though in this case, it probably is 
> less likely to qualify as a script ;-).

>From a thread that Julian linked to, it looks like constraint checking
can be turned off for scripts:

-8<--
In case one wants to use ATS as a scripting language,
please include the following comment in the file containing
scripting code written in ATS:

(*
##myatsccdef=\
patsopt --constraint-ignore --dynamic $1 | \
tcc -run -DATS_MEMALLOC_LIBC -I${PATSHOME} -I${PATSHOME}/ccomp/runtime
- $arglst(2)
*)
-8<--

I'd imagine leaving it on when writing it, but deploying it with
turned off for speed.

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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Vanessa McHale
This is an aside, but perhaps caching constraint solving and the like
would be a good idea? I know Agda will not re-typecheck a module
dependency unless it is touched.

On 10/22/18 4:05 PM, Brandon Barker wrote:
> Seems to be on of the big arguments for using Go. Of course ATS will
> (rightly) never match the simplicity criteria that they strive for.
>
> Though I imagine for more "complicated" scripts
> typechecking/constraint solving may become the predominant portion of
> time spent among compiling and running code (at least in some cases).
> Though in this case, it probably is less likely to qualify as a script
> ;-).
>
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 1:51:20 PM UTC-4, gmhwxi wrote:
>
>
> Yes. Please use v0.9.26. TCC v0.9.25 is buggy and should be
> avoided.
>
> I like TCC a lot. It is a pity that it does not get maintained
> these days.
>
> With TCC, I often use ATS for scripting. Once adequate lib support is
> put into place, I feel that ATS can work very well for the need of
> shell scripting
> and beyond.
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 3:34:29 AM UTC-4, Chris Double wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi <...> wrote:
> >
> > A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using
> CINT
> > build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active
> development:
>
> Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/
>
> It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would
> suit a REPL:
>
> https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc
> <https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc>
> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h
> <https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h>
> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c
> <https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c>
>
> -- 
> http://bluishcoder.co.nz
>
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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Raoul Duke
so just to be a pedantic defender of real UX, please everybody note that
(at least according to me) scripting != repl, and repl does not guarantee
good ux. an actually useful, helpful, repl bestows new super powers on
those who can get their hands on such magical, enchanted, tools. it likely
requires ground-up work not top-down hacks, shoe-horning. thus i am never
hopeful any language will get a really good repl unless it grew up with it
all along.

so at the moment i am guessing that at least for ATS < 3 there's not really
a super repl to be had; however there are existence proofs of being able to
use it "in the small", even if there's not any turn-key out-of-the-box
(docker?) hard proofs i can get using with 15 minutes of effort?

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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Brandon Barker
Seems to be on of the big arguments for using Go. Of course ATS will 
(rightly) never match the simplicity criteria that they strive for.

Though I imagine for more "complicated" scripts typechecking/constraint 
solving may become the predominant portion of time spent among compiling 
and running code (at least in some cases). Though in this case, it probably 
is less likely to qualify as a script ;-).


On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 1:51:20 PM UTC-4, gmhwxi wrote:
>
>
> Yes. Please use v0.9.26. TCC v0.9.25 is buggy and should be
> avoided.
>
> I like TCC a lot. It is a pity that it does not get maintained these days.
>
> With TCC, I often use ATS for scripting. Once adequate lib support is
> put into place, I feel that ATS can work very well for the need of shell 
> scripting
> and beyond.
>
> On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 3:34:29 AM UTC-4, Chris Double wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi <...> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT 
>> > build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active development: 
>>
>> Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/ 
>>
>> It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would suit a 
>> REPL: 
>>
>> https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc 
>> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h 
>> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c 
>>
>> -- 
>> http://bluishcoder.co.nz 
>>
>

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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread gmhwxi

Yes. Please use v0.9.26. TCC v0.9.25 is buggy and should be
avoided.

I like TCC a lot. It is a pity that it does not get maintained these days.

With TCC, I often use ATS for scripting. Once adequate lib support is
put into place, I feel that ATS can work very well for the need of shell 
scripting
and beyond.

On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 3:34:29 AM UTC-4, Chris Double wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi <...> wrote: 
> > 
> > A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT 
> > build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active development: 
>
> Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/ 
>
> It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would suit a 
> REPL: 
>
> https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc 
> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h 
> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c 
>
> -- 
> http://bluishcoder.co.nz 
>

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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Julian Fondren
On Monday, October 22, 2018 at 2:34:29 AM UTC-5, Chris Double wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT 
> > build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active development: 
>
> Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/ 
>

Yes. There are some uses of it to create ATS scripts 
in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ats-lang-users/mU4Lp4GkH18/zpzFjaR_AAAJ 

 

> It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would suit a 
> REPL: 
>
> https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc 
> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h 
> https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c 
>
> -- 
> http://bluishcoder.co.nz 
>

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Re: repl?

2018-10-22 Thread Chris Double
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM Hongwei Xi  wrote:
>
> A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT
> build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active development:

Can TCC compile ATS code? https://bellard.org/tcc/

It can be used as a dynamic code generator as well which would suit a REPL:

https://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html#Libtcc
https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/libtcc.h
https://github.com/TinyCC/tinycc/blob/mob/tests/libtcc_test.c

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Re: repl?

2018-10-21 Thread Hongwei Xi
A few years back, I looked into to the possibility of using CINT
build an REPL for ATS2. Now Cling seems to be under active development:

https://root.cern.ch/cling

If one wants something performant, this route seems to be promising.


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 8:34 PM Vanessa McHale 
wrote:

> FWIW, I have written ATS2 code that compiles to C which is then wrapped
> with a Haskell library that GHCi is able to interact with.
>
> Have a look here:
> https://github.com/vmchale/hs-ats/tree/master/fast-arithmetic.
>
> You can run cabal new-repl and then
>
> λ:> import Numeric.Combinatorics
>
> λ:> 400 `choose` 20
>
> 2788360983670896737872851072994080
>
> It's not the same as native support, but it does allow a certain type of
> development to go on.
> On 10/21/18 3:17 PM, gmhwxi wrote:
>
>
> Supporting the use of external functions (e.g. those defined in C)
> in the REPL would be limited if at all. But there are pluses as well.
> The REPL I have in mind should support various forms of inspection,
> playing a big role in facilitating meta-programming with ATS.
>
> On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 4:02:17 PM UTC-4, Raoul Duke wrote:
>>
>> as i naive day job programmer, i hope that repl/interpreter doesnt have
>> to imply any lack of feature support, so one could still do types &
>> templates & bears oh my.
>>
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Re: repl?

2018-10-21 Thread Vanessa McHale
FWIW, I have written ATS2 code that compiles to C which is then wrapped
with a Haskell library that GHCi is able to interact with.

Have a look here:
https://github.com/vmchale/hs-ats/tree/master/fast-arithmetic.

You can run cabal new-repl and then

λ:> import Numeric.Combinatorics

λ:> 400 `choose` 20

2788360983670896737872851072994080

It's not the same as native support, but it does allow a certain type of
development to go on.

On 10/21/18 3:17 PM, gmhwxi wrote:
>
> Supporting the use of external functions (e.g. those defined in C)
> in the REPL would be limited if at all. But there are pluses as well.
> The REPL I have in mind should support various forms of inspection,
> playing a big role in facilitating meta-programming with ATS.
>
> On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 4:02:17 PM UTC-4, Raoul Duke wrote:
>
> as i naive day job programmer, i hope that repl/interpreter doesnt
> have to imply any lack of feature support, so one could still do
> types & templates & bears oh my.
>
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Re: repl?

2018-10-21 Thread Raoul Duke
as i naive day job programmer, i hope that repl/interpreter doesnt have to
imply any lack of feature support, so one could still do types & templates
& bears oh my.

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Re: repl?

2018-10-21 Thread gmhwxi

Yes, I have a plan to implement an REPL for ATS3. I expect it to be
used primarily for the purpose of learning and debugging.

I actually use ATS as a scripting language regularly. Here is an example
I put up a while ago:

https://github.com/ats-lang/ATS-CodeBook/tree/master/RECIPE/CSV-parsing

I certainly can see the value of REPL for beginners. But if one wants to 
give
ATS a serious try, please go for types and templates. This is what the 
slogan
for ATS says:

Unleashing the Potentials of Types and Templates!

:)

On Sunday, October 21, 2018 at 2:51:53 PM UTC-4, Raoul Duke wrote:
>
> random aside, languages with really good repl / interpreter features are 
> extra attractive.
>
> if ATS3 had a goal of implementing a repl from the ground up that would be 
> extra exciting.
>
> (is the luajit trick something that has become an automagic out-of-the-box 
> exoerience? or any other approaches?)
>

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Re: repl?

2018-10-21 Thread Vanessa McHale
I'm not sure how well that would work. Are there any other
heavily-ML-style languages with a REPL? I know Haskell has one but its
syntax lends itself to such things.

Having a JIT would be wonderful (especially if ATS3 is to be a
compilation target) but it's outside of my area of expertise.

On 10/21/18 1:51 PM, Raoul Duke wrote:
> random aside, languages with really good repl / interpreter features
> are extra attractive.
>
> if ATS3 had a goal of implementing a repl from the ground up that
> would be extra exciting.
>
> (is the luajit trick something that has become an automagic
> out-of-the-box exoerience? or any other approaches?)
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Re: repl

2016-10-10 Thread Kiwamu Okabe
Hi Raoul,

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 6:23 AM, Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok, theres stuff like cern/roots cling c++ interpreter.

It's following? < cern/roots

  ROOT a Data analysis Framework
  https://root.cern.ch/

So cool like C++ mathematica!

> put that on e.g. ios, then get a real language that compiles to c/++
> on top of it, to somehow get a repl?
> then since it is c/++ it is portable to android, and then also
> becomes faster for releases because then it gets compiled.

I think it's a good idea.

Best regards,
-- 
Kiwamu Okabe at METASEPI DESIGN

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repl

2016-10-10 Thread Raoul Duke
ok, theres stuff like cern/roots cling c++ interpreter. put that on e.g.
ios, then get a real language that compiles to c/++ on top of it, to
somehow get a repl? then since it is c/++ it is portable to android, and
then also becomes faster for releases because then it gets compiled.

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