Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence yes you sure can. yes to all questions. but its helpful to install a free little app on the phone and tablet called quick tts first. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=278587#p278587 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence hi all, if i buy eloquence for my android tablet, firstly, can i adjust speech rate on the fly in android 5,1, and could i have it on my tablet, and if i get one, a phone in the future? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=278582#p278582 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence i thought about it a bit more. what would be nice is yes a sapi5 bridge between NVDA and sapi5. but a bridge where when you go into your game you put nvda to sleep and you can use any voice available in nvda as a sapi5 voice. kind of like how in talking dosbox i can use any nvda voice available in dosbox and even in lotus123 and any dos app in there. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=278537#p278537 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence i bet if you examine the illegal NVDA eloquence addon you could figure it out. eloquence is old and it should not cost $60 or $70 for a sapi5 version! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=278536#p278536 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Well, how do you like that? I sent an email to Code Factory asking for assistance with lagging problems with programs that use their Eloquence for Windows, and so far, no response.So, not only is Nuance not supporting Eloquence by not maintaining it, Code Factory is following Nuance's example by not providing support for the product.On the flip side, I've found a way to never run out of activations for the Eloquence for Windows. The neat thing is that it doesn't involve hacking, cracking, or anything else that might be considered illegal because it uses what Code Factory provided.Here's how you do it.- Make a backup of your system using a backup program that creates an image of your hard drive. I used the Backup and Restore built into Windows and it worked just fine.- Run Eloquence and deactivate it, this moves the license from your computer to their activation server effectively increasing your remaining activations by 1. - Restore your system using the image you just made, for this I used one of the talking Windows 7 PE CDs.Now you have an activated Eloquence and one more allowed activation. This can be repeated, but I'd guess that the server will only go up to 3 allowed activations.Enjoy! And stick it to Code Factory! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=278394#p278394 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence When I played Entombed, the was a note somewhere that using SAPI was preferred because the program would have no way of knowing when the screen reader was finished speaking. Perhaps if the screen reader APIs were used, that might not be a problem.For JAWS:In the Eloquence folder, eci.dllin the FSAPI folder, fsapi.dllI would guess that the Eloquence dll documentation isn't available to end users, but I'd be willing to bet that the FSAPI dll documentation is. I'll have to take a look on Freedom Scientific's web site.I know very little about NVDA and even less about Python, so it would probably be best if someone more familiar with those does the work an a SAPI to NVDA bridge.Since I used to develop and maintain a DRM system, I believe I have the skill, if not the knowledge of SAPI, but that can always be learned. With no other legal options to get a DRM free Eloquence for SAPI available, I'd be willing to look at what it might take to create a SAPI to JAWS bridge.Suggestion: If we want to pursue this idea of a SAPI bridge to our screen readers, we should consider starting an appropriately titled thread. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277449#p277449 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I think the timing issue is just something that might have to be lived with. When I played Entombed, there was a comment that using a SAPI voice was preferred because the game had no way to know when a screen reader was finished speaking.For JAWS:In the Eloquence folder, eci.dllin the FSAPI folder, fsapi.dllI would guess that the Eloquence dll documentation isn't available to end users, but I'd be willing to bet that the FSAPI dll documentation is. I'll have to take a look on Freedom Scientific's web site.I know very little about NVDA and even less about Python, so it would probably be best if someone more familiar with those does the work an a SAPI to NVDA bridge.Since I used to develop and maintain a DRM system, I believe I have the skill, if not the knowledge of SAPI, but that can always be learned. With no other legal options to get a DRM free Eloquence for SAPI available, I'd be willing to look at what it might take to create a SAPI to JAWS bridge.Suggestion: If we want to pursue this idea of a SAPI bridge to our screen readers, we should consider starting an appropriately titled thread. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277449#p277449 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Yes, and since the NVDA and possibly JAWS API's are able to allow an application to speak through the respective screen readers, it could be very possible. NVDA's API is a DLL, I'm not sure about JAWS, though. Speaking of which, have there ever been games that spoke through it? The most I've seen is a key hook installed, but I've never actually seen a game speak with it. @Cris, Screen reader API's, as far as I know, do not have a way to tell a program when they are speaking and when they are done, so timing the output could be an issue with this kind of bridge if it was developed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277444#p277444 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Yes, and since the NVDA and possibly JAWS API's are able to allow an application to speak through the respective screen readers, it could be very possible. NVDA's API is a DLL, I'm not sure about JAWS, though. Speaking of which, have there ever been games that spoke through it? The most I've seen is a key hook installed, but I've never actually seen a game speak with it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277444#p277444 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Yes, Nvda does have an api as well. What we'd need to do is set up a bridge to communicate between the api and sapi. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277440#p277440 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I believe there is, at least there is a folder within JAWS called FSAPI, Freedom Scientific API?, there is also an Eloquence folder so direct access to Eloquence might be possible.And so as not to forget NVDA usersNVDA, more than likely has an API too. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277430#p277430 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I belive there is, at least there is a foldr within JAWS called FSAPI, Freedom Scientific API?, there is also an Eloquence folder so direct access to Eloquence might be possible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277430#p277430 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I agree with the idea of cobbling together scripts for Jaws and NVDA to send SAPI output through NVDA. I would love to play something like Entombed or the Spoonbill games with MacinTalk Alex. I'm just concerned about the timing that is used in SAPI. Would it be harder to time events if NVDA was receiving data from SAPI or would it behave the same as a standard SAPI voice? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277425#p277425 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Does JAWS have an API that allows external applications to use it? Because if it does, you, in theory, could hack together a SAPI voice that somehow sends text to it through the API, and allows SAPI to speak with it. There is in fact an NVDA addon I've seen that allows you to use Macintalk with NVDA, and it bridges itself in the same way. Basically, it sends text as TCP packets, and the Python server on the mac handles it, and outputs the text through Macintalk. And if that was coded for JAWS as a SAPI voice, there wouldn't be many legal issues because you still need JAWS for it to function. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277419#p277419 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Here's a thought, though doing it is beyond me. And that is to create a bridge that would allow the Eloquence that comes with JAWS to be used as a SAPI 5 voice.Then I'd tell Code Factory what they can do with their DRM laced copy of Eloquence. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277411#p277411 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Yes, that would be an interesting idea. I'd be interested to see what happens. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277402#p277402 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence It would be very hard to enforce packet sniffing as illegal. By the tems of the license agreement you are not reverse engineering or altering the binaries in any way. However what would bee more usefull is to scan the binaries for the URL to the license server, the do a trace route on it to see if there are any slow routers along the way or if the server itself is slow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277362#p277362 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence You could try packetsniffing, to see what's being sent and received from the server. Well, yeah that's a gray-area, but so is breaking through drm using codex, for example. They try to make any form of quote unquote tampering with the drm illegal. However, that kind of controlling drm isn't even right, especially if it's checking the license every time. Either Code Factory, or Nuance, or Themida the creator of this drm, went to the Valve Corporation School of invasive license checking. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277321#p277321 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Yes, it seems like it would be fast. Even if the servers were in Spain (which is where Code factory is located) it shouldn't be that slow. However attempting to discover what it's doing could be a gray area legally. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277247#p277247 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I don't believe it's a DLL loading, JAWS uses Eloquence and it loads in about 5 seconds.According to Code Factory's FAQs, it should only be checking it's license once a month, but maybe that's just a minimum and it checks whenever there's an internet connection.YEven so, checking a license should be an exchange of at most a few Kb of data which should be very quick, unless the license server is slow or on a slow connection.How embarrassing! After all my talk of how I never had any problems with DRM, I now find myself in a situation where the problem I'm experiencing is more than likely caused by it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277246#p277246 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I find it very strange that it would block for that long just to check a license, though. Shouldn't it be a simple exchange of data? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277239#p277239 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Loading a dll? Not a chance. No eloquence dll ever takes that long to load. No doubt it's checking the license. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277234#p277234 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Maybe checking the license, I think. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277216#p277216 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence So it is checking for its license during that time? Or could it be loading some kind of DLL? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277198#p277198 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Figment,You may have to use other voices instead I'm afraid. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277190#p277190 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Well, how do you like that, I have egg on my face because now I have to retract my comments about not having any problems with the DRM Code Factory uses. I have a card game that uses SAPI 5 voices and it takes about 30 seconds to load, if I switch to the crappy Anna voice that comes with Windows 7, the 30 second start up time drops to more like 5 seconds.It's a pity the developer didn't allow the user to choose whether the game used a screen reader or SAPI for its voice. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=277126#p277126 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Then again, would they evn have it? If those a a c devices are running windows, which some are, wouldn't they simply need the dectalk.dll? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274674#p274674 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence The only way that I can see us possibly getting the DECtalk sourcecode is for us to contact the manufacturers of AAC devices which allow DECtalk to be installed onto them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274641#p274641 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Um, Josh? First of all, please cut the multiple posts. Secondly, as much of a dectalk contributor as Snoopi is, he is simply redistributing these packages. The version of dectalk 4.6.4 on his site is a beta that was never originally publicly available until Snoopi started hosting it, which gave us free and easy access to it. Second, of course Fonix will say it's illegal, it's their damn prized possession now. But Fonix are not above, nor do they have any say, in what the remaining detalk engineer does. He's the main reason this source made it onto the net, remember. As for sharing software, copy protection was still in effect, even when floppies were around. Remember the keydisks, those were tied to the hardware. So please don't jump to conclusions, commercial software wasn't free to distribute just because it was on floppy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274500#p274500 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence well fonix talk said its not legal. I really miss the old days when you could freely copy and share software on floppy disks. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274497#p274497 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Sad news, Josh. The source code that you found is not a revelation--see post 130. And I wouldn't expect to hear from Snoopi, the person whom you emailed according to post 135--he's quite ill at the moment. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274455#p274455 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Well, why won't you write down the hole things in one post? it is very hard to read. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274445#p274445 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence ok so I did some emailing and looking and found that I think DecTalk is currently sold by Fonix Talk? both 4.6.4 and 5.0? so is the source code i found legal? not sure. is the decTalk on the site theflameofhope.co is it legal not sure. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274355#p274355 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence hey guys good news! I found the legally available decTalk source code! you know what this means? well guys I am not a programmer its just not one of my strengths. but if someone else out there is, this means we could possibly have a sapi5 decTalk that is very very responsive just like ESpeak before it was abandoned for some reason by jonathan duddington. we could mod decTalk's intonation to make it sound like keynote gold or eloquence, or add new voices. or even add new languages. so could anyone out there be willing to take this on? here is the link to the decTalk source code! http://grossgang.com/tts/dectalk%20soft … Ad%202.zip URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274342#p274342 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence as i said i tried all decTalk versions. the best i think is specifically version 4.6.4. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274332#p274332 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence i went to www.theflameofhope.co/dectalk and i downloaded and tried all versions of decTalk to evaluate them and see which one i like most. my conclusion? i tried the earliest 4.3 or 4.2 all the way up through 5.0. and my conclusion is this. I like version specifically DecTalk version 4.6.4. why you ask? because it sounds the best it has good base and good intonation plus it also has the multilingual ability. So I emailed the guy asking if he could make a very responsive sapi5 version of DecTalk 4.6.4 with ability to mod its intonation to make new voices, make it sing, to make it sound like keynote gold or whatever we want it to emulate or even something completely different. I also asked him if he has the source to add new languages. Nuance, keep your hands off of DecTalk! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274330#p274330 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I have noticed, though, that the source has several versions of dectalk, or at least, references to them. 4.3, 4.40, and others. Unfortunately not the code itself, though. It's probably a lot of leftovers from the countless acquisitions Dectalk has been through. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274329#p274329 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Just because we have the source, it's not nearly as easy to go android. It's certainly doable from a technical standpoint, but will we get the classic dectalk sound? Most certainly not. Remember, the dectalk sourcecode for 4.6 and below has been lost until further notice. This source is only for dectalk 4.61 and up. To get the source for those releases, a dectalk release of that version must be decompiled on the exact same architecture and windows version, with a c++ decompiler because c++ is what I believe Dectalk was programmed in, and then we can have some source. That's not physically possible unless the dectalk engineer whom Jake is in contact with manages to get it decompiled, which would require a virtual machine of that architecture and operating system to be loaded onto his mac. So it's not impossible, but it would require a lot of effort, and patience, to actually get the human-readable sourcecode of those releases. And before anyone says otherwise, i t's not just a matter of changing the source we already have. Dennis Klatt's original samples were modified beyond any source when Force acquired Dectalk. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274299#p274299 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence if nuance keeps going the way they are, I think that eventually eloquence will be lost just like keynote gold. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274284#p274284 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence so if there is decTalk source out there this means eventually we could have decTalk for android as well? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274283#p274283 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I'm not sure. Though if you're using a song written for 4.40, be aware that there are phoneme changes. Ll took the place of the l phoneme, and also some phonemes aren't allowed in certain contexts. Also, some dectalk source was actually released. You can find it on grossgang here. http://grossgang.com/tts/dectalk%20soft … Ad%202.zip URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274255#p274255 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I'm not sure. Though if you're using a song written for 4.40, be aware that there are phoneme changes. Ll took the place of the l phoneme, and also some phonemes aren't allowed in certain contexts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274255#p274255 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I downloaded the SAPI5 one from The Flame Of Hope, but I couldn't find a file to install it. I have had problems trying to get some of the newer versions of DECtalk to sing, and I suspect that this is because of all the acquisitions? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274252#p274252 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I don't see Nuance touching dectalk. It is not owned by an active maintainer. Fonix was originally reluctant to anyway which is why it was nearly destroyed after Force acquired it. @Tjt1234: To clarify. Snoopy never worked with digital equipment corporation. He worked with Enable Rehab, a company operated by one person, Corine Bickly, who dind't even have a valid reason to run the company to begin with. Her boyfriend came to America on a greencard, and she never married, and when his greencard expired, she tried pulling every string she could to try to keep this guy in America. She started a business, selling something to justify it, and chose to use Dectalk. Snoopi, a long-time dectalk contributor and user, worked alongside her, because she was making a sapi dectalk. That was the version where she disabled the engine from being able to sing,. Ridiculous move! And Snoopi, who did the right thing and warned the community, was fired for giving that "secret" out. All Corine wanted was sales. The company is currently in a state of nonexistence, or at least as far as we can tell it is, because the enable rehab site was hacked. Hopefully we won't be hearing from it ever again. Thus, Snoopi is hosting that version plus a beta version of a sapi dectalk that can sing for free at theflameofhope.co URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274184#p274184 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence i just had an email from codefactory they say even old eloquence 3.3 is owned by nuance. looks like decTalk is the only one we can really play with. I hope Nuance keeps their hands off of decTalk. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274178#p274178 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I thought that Snoopi Botten worked with the DECtalk people about ten years ago, and I thought that he modified a couple of the DECtalk versions. That would mean that he has the sourcecode. I am not sure if this is true or not, but if it is, could we contact him and see what about getting access to it? And even if he doesn't have it, he is still very knowledgeable about DECtalk. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274171#p274171 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence We can't confirm it, at least not yet. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274150#p274150 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence oh so if old eloquence3.3 is in fact abandonware, and if i can confirm this, then does that mean someone could make a sapi5 version of old eloquence 3.3? i hope so! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274102#p274102 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Lol! They probably did. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274101#p274101 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence They have? Strange, because I know there is a Fonix Talk demo that's still on the Speech FX website. I believe Fonix may have been purchased by Speech FX, and I'm unaware of their status. You can still find the demo on their website, so I'm not sure what happened.Oh, and here's a joke.Betty even once said, herself, that some people said she sounded like a man. Well, who knows, maybe those Fonix folks wanted to make that true? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274085#p274085 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence They have? Strange, because I know there is a Fonix Talk demo that's still on the Speech FX website. I believe Fonix may have been purchased by Speech FX, and I'm unaware of their status. You can still find the demo on their website, so I'm not sure what happened. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274085#p274085 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Tjt1234, it's because Dectalk 4.6 was the last version published by Digital Equipment Corporation. When force took it, they pretty much killed it. Then Fonix, a company that fortunately seems to have gone bankrupt as well, made it even worse. It will never be restored to the dectalk that it was before, as the only only available sourcecode is for 4.61 and up. The rest is locked away and seems unrecoverable. Dectalk 4.2 is actually not available directly as a software synthesizer, unless someone manages to get the Dectalk Express firmware to run virtually. The dectalk Express firmware cd is dtxv42cd.zip available from allinaccess.com. There are emulators that try to run old versions of dectalk, such as Chiptalk, but those are inaccessible. The only accessible one was some supposed emulator for dectalk 2.0 hardware using mess emulation, but it was a little sluggish. Josh: I do believe that that version of Eloquence was released before Nuance took it, and if it was, then they pr obably don't have the rights to that one. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274072#p274072 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence How do you get 4.2? I didn't think that any version before 4.3 was available for Windows. I find that versions after about 5.0 of DECtalk start to make the voices less intelligible, which is the opposite of what I would expect. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274057#p274057 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence It's actually using 4.6, the last good version before Force Computers acquired it and twisted and, mangled, battered and bruised it in every way with the release of dectalk 4.61. You know they went wrong when Betty in that version sounds like a frickin guy! But yes, dt access 32 is using 4.61. Actually, the best version, is actually 4.2, the version that the dectalk Express uses. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274008#p274008 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I wonder if the old eloquence the one in the old eloquence nvda addon falls under nuance copyright? if not, could that one be made sapi5 perhaps? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274007#p274007 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence what version of decTalk is in the access32 nvda addon? if i remember right it is 4.0 or 4.5 the good-sounding decTalk. the one where you do not need the gwdec32.exe to run it? anyway would it be hard to make that decTalk into a sapi5 tts since its probably the best sounding decTalk around? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=274006#p274006 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence It could be lack of marketing, IBM made the same mistake with OS/2 back when everyone was waiting for Windows 95. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=272642#p272642 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Gene Yes, Linux is meant to be the open source alternative to Unix. And I believe Eloquence was written using a special Delta programming language, but for portability across platforms, it was compiled to C. So in theory, Eloquence could be ported to IOS, because I am aware that there is a company or an organization that is selling IBM ViaVoice for Linux, which was based off of Eloquence and uses nearly the same engine. Though IBM had apparently discontinued ViaVoice, so I'm not sure what happened there. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=272551#p272551 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence All that does is prove that Nuance wants Eloquence protected. It does not prove that Nuance is behind the continuous connection requirement.Especially when their own products like Paperport and Omnipage only do a one time online license check at the time of activation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=272531#p272531 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence at figment, no eloquence is not available for IOS and probably never will be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=272473#p272473 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence this proves nuance is behind the drm for eloquence. Hi,Yes, this is enforced by Nuance because of too much piracy. People buying it then giving it away to their friends.Nothing I can do.All the bestSteve URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=272472#p272472 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Slender wrote:I don't believe Eloquence is available for IOS. The issue is that Eloquence itself was written for an entirely different operating system in a completely different time period. I don't even think Eloquence was ever ported to Unix anyway, which is what IOS is loosely based off of. I believe the reason you can get Eloquence for Android may be that Android is based off of Linux, which, and TTS historians feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Eloquence was ported to.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't linix, like its name, closely related to unix? Which, if Slender is right, make iOS and Android pretty much the same too?I've always understood that smart phone apps aren't compiled to native code, but instead, into something like Java. Otherwise you'd have compatibility issues all over the place. This app won't run on Samsung phones and that app won
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Apple doesn't allow other people to create text-to-speech engines for iOS. The only choices you have are Vocalizer and MacinTalk which are both provided by Apple directly. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271725#p271725 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Gene I don't believe Eloquence is available for IOS. The issue is that Eloquence itself was written for an entirely different operating system in a completely different time period. I don't even think Eloquence was ever ported to Unix anyway, which is what IOS is loosely based off of. I believe the reason you can get Eloquence for Android may be that Android is based off of Linux, which, and TTS historians feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Eloquence was ported to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271720#p271720 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence From my experience with other DRM systems as well as our own, some, like Sony's SecuROM, came with code to do a one time online activation, but none had code to require a constant connection with the license server. So it's companies that use DRM, and not the DRM industry itself that came up with the constant connection idea.It is my belief that requiring a constant connection with the license server, is a very good example of abusing DRM. The companies that employ such restrictive methods are only concerned with their bottom line and don't give a hoot about customers.I've always believed that intelligent use of DRM can help with preventing unauthorized use without inconveniencing legitimate customers. A one time online activation with limited activations that are periodically reset should be enough for most situations. If a periodic online check is desired, don't make it too frequent, 30 days should be plenty. Even better, combine the online license check with something customers are likely to want and will need to be connected to get, a check for updates. And don't penalize the user just because the license server can't be reached, just tell the customer about it and wait until the next scheduled check before doing anything.You will more than likely not get an answer to your question about where the DRM came from even though knowing that wouldn't help with cracking attempts because none of the specifics of the DRM system that would be needed wouldn't be revealed. Code Factory will likely consider that to be proprietary information not to be given to customers.I wish you luck with Code Factory, but if they were the ones who created the constant contact DRM, they will be very unlikely to relax their grip.I still think your best bet is to try and get your money back, unless you are determined to get a usable version without the restrictive DRM by whatever means available.If I could get it without the restrictions, I wouldn't mind being able to change Siri's and VoiceOver's voices to Eloquence's Reed. But since I have a minimal data plan so I restrict internet access to WiFi only, a good portion of the time Eloquence probably wouldn't run because it won't be able to reach the license server. Besides, I don't even know if Eloquence is available for iOS. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271686#p271686 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Agreed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271606#p271606 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Josh: Hate to break it to ya, but good luck getting answers from them. They did fix the virtual machine issue, but that was a legit problem, because people on macs especially need to use virtaul machines or bootcamp if they want windows anyway. Not to say that the constant license check isn't a legit issue, but concerning antipiracy, a company typically isn't gonna let on that easy with something that could potentially make a lot of cracks, especially if my theory is right, that the companies that sell these products must buy the licenses from Nuance which in turn gets distributed to users. Drm can actually work, if used correctly. I've read through specs of systems like starforce proactive, and I seee nothing about constant license checks unless of course that's a setting that a dev can control. But constant continuous license checking? Ok, obviously it's undertstood that you don't own the product, but that message doesn't need to be rammed dow n the user's throat in the form of constant license checking. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271590#p271590 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Josh: Hate to break it to ya, but good luck getting answers from them. They did fix the virtual machine issue, but that was a legit problem, because people on macs especially need to use virtaul machines or bootcamp if they want windows anyway. Not to say that the constant license check isn't a legit issue, but concerning antipiracy, a company typically isn't gonna let on that easy with something that could potentially make a lot of cracks, especially if my theory is right, that the companies that sell these products must buy the licenses from Nuance which in turn gets distributed to users. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271590#p271590 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I also emailed codefactory and asked to please sell a version of sapi5 eloquence without drm. i also asked them if they came up with their drm system or if Nuance did. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271586#p271586 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence yes yes yes tell free software foundation about nuance! their drm is horrible! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271584#p271584 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence That is why I've always said that DRM isn't evil, it's the companies that abuse it that are.I can understand the desire to do a periodic online license check, but continuous? That's crazy! Especially when you consider that desktops are more likely to have always on connections to the internet than mobile devices which might require a WiFi connection for access. Not everyone can afford an unlimited data plan on their phone, and even more, like me, choose to do without cellular data to save money. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271575#p271575 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence BEcause Android devices, when rooted, have their entire contents viewable. Unlike Itunes apps, Google Play apps have no drm. Or if they did, it was far easier to break. Apple handles the distribution of all paid apps through the app store, but Google doesn't have strong drm. So, Code FActory made their own, possibly because Nuance could've required it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271572#p271572 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I don't understand why Eloquence for mobile devices requires a licence check. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271564#p271564 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Now that is a good drm system. Code Factory's eloquence does do the periodic license check presumably every 30 days, but it has no warning whatsoever. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271553#p271553 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence There is one big problem with the last five licenses model you proposed. Each computer would have to do periodic (monthly or more) license checks with a license server in order for the extra license to be terminated in a timely manner. Otherwise, you could have any number of computers activated until the license expires.The only way around that would be to require that one of the five licenses be deactivated before the sixth computer could be activated. Which is what Freedom Scientific and apparently Code Factory do now.Apparently Code Factory's DRM isn't as restrictive for the Windows version of Eloquence is it is for the mobile versions. After shutting down my computer, I unplugged it's network cable, checked that its WiFi was switched off, then restarted it. Once Windows had started, I first verified that there was no connection to the internet, then I launched Entombed, which I have set to use SAPI, and my Eloquence for SAPI worked without a hitch. So I suspect it either does periodic license checks, or only checks when activated. The only way to find out which, without just asking Code Factory, would be to run without an internet connection for a while, and I'm not going to do that.Just to be sure, I checked the usual and hidden locations in the registry and start menu to make sure some license check isn't being run in the background, and there wasn't. So the only time Eloquence for SAPI could check its license is when it is used.The reason I checked for background license checks is because of the possibility that Code Factory might be using a method of license checking that I helped a customer develop. He wanted online license checks, but he didn't want it to be intrusive or cause trouble if the license server couldn't be reached. So what I proposed was that he write a separate program that silently does a license check. If the license server is reached and the license verified, it rec ords the date of the successful check, If the server reports invalid license the license is removed from the computer, if the license server can't be reached, it does nothing. This license check program is set up to be run every time Windows starts. When the program itself runs, its own license check routine does the same thing, but with one addition. It is only run when it's been more than 24 days since the last successful license check. When the program runs it checks when the license was last verified, if it was more than 24 days ago, the user is warned that an online license check will be needed within the next 30-X days. That way the user is warned before the program stops running. In the two years he's been using this approach, none of his customers has ever seen the license check warning. To see that warning, you'd have to be without an internet connection for more than 24 days. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271488#p271488 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence My idea for a drm system would've consisted of one that is transparent to the user without revealing the inner-workings. I e, when you buy the software, entering of the license key downloads a license file to your computer from a server, and that license lasts 6 months or a year, depending on how periodic they decide the license should be. At the expiration of the license, the license, assuming all goes well, will be redownloaded. Seems like the inconvenience of the periodic license checks we have now, just less frequent, doesn't it? However, there is one major difference. Each program using this drm would come with a license manager that tells you the exact date the license expires, in turn when it will be redownloaded. So, if it's coming up to that date and all of a sudden your isp goes down, you know to make that trip to the nearest restaurant or gas station with public wifi to download that license to avoid program interruption. And, plan b in the event the comp any were to close, they'd program permanent licenses right away so that if they do have to close, they can hand them out without waiting. This would be kind of like the drm system Gene described, but taken a few steps forward as far as being a convenience for those who are insistent on periodic checks, while giving full transparency to the user at the same time, so they are somewhat in control of how the drm affects the program. Also, there is really no need for an activation limit. Look at WEather Watcher Live. THat's a 5 computer activation limit, and if the license is activated on a 6th computer, the license on the oldest activated machine is automatically deactivated. So basically there's no way to render the license unusable, I even confirmed this with Mike to make sure I was right about that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271478#p271478 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence My idea for a drm system would've consisted of one that is transparent to the user without revealing the inner-workings. I e, when you buy the software, entering of the license key downloads a license file to your computer from a server, and that license lasts 6 months or a year, depending on how periodic they decide the license should be. At the expiration of the license, the license, assuming all goes well, will be redownloaded. Seems like the inconvenience of the periodic license checks we have now, just less frequent, doesn't it? However, there is one major difference. Each program using this drm would come with a license manager that tells you the exact date the license expires, in turn when it will be redownloaded. So, if it's coming up to that date and all of a sudden your isp goes down, you know to make that trip to the nearest restaurant or gas station with public wifi to download that license to avoid program interruption. And, plan b in the event the comp any were to close, they'd program permanent licenses right away so that if they do have to close, they can hand them out without waiting. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271478#p271478 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I agree with Jack, a one time license verification to activate a product with a reasonable activation limit to allow for unforeseen problems which is reset periodically, should be enough to limit unauthorized use with a minimum of inconvenience to legitimate users.If a periodic license check is desired, allowances should be made for times when the license server is unreachable. Especially for mobile devices which might require a WiFi connection to be able to reach the license server.--Now I'm curious, I have Code Factory's Eloquence on my laptop at home which has an always on broadband connection, so I'd be unaware if they are using the same highly restrictive DRM in the Windows version as they are with the mobile versions.I will do some tests and let you know what I discover. I rarely use this computer without an internet connection of some kind, but it would be nice to know if a problem is lurking when I do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271475#p271475 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Gene Yes, I agree with you on this. At this point, since we do not know the back room arguments and/or discussions that occurred between the two companies, there is no way we, as customers, can make any judgements as to who did what. At this point, we are mostly speculating who put the DRM in, but until we get some definite responses from people at the two companies, we cannot be sure. Everyone, remember this. We are not representatives from either of the two companies. We can attempt to look in as much as we want, but unless someone comes out and says something, most of our speculation should be taken with a grain of salt. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271374#p271374 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Well, then, Code Factory should've taken Nuance's own path and used that drm instead. If that were the case, I'd be less resistant to buying a license. I can take the average one-time drm system, but am not gonna stand for a license that's a constant lurker, coming at me and interfering with my ability to use the program if it fails to validate. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271363#p271363 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @JackHave it your way, but I refuse to blame Nuance without proof that they are the one's dictating the form of DRM to be used on their products.My last job before I lost my vision was being part of a four person team that developed and maintained the software protection and license manager (DRM) system that Nuance used to protect their product. They used it in conjunction with their own code to do a one time license verification and activation of the product.While the DRM system is still usable, it has since been discontinued, so Nuance may be using something else now. Since they use Install Shield to install their products, I suspect that they are probably using Install Shield's own license manager which is similar to the DRM system I used to work on. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271350#p271350 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence To quote the bat man, "In the absence of leadership, the people do what they have to." URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271281#p271281 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Gene: Software piracy is stealing, no matter the reason. NO one can deny that, I"m not even denying that yes, software piracy is stealing. As for the drm, well, let's look at products that have been released. Eloquence uses that continuous drm, so does vocalizer for sapi5. Vocalizer for Nvda, made by Tiflotechnia, still uses an intrusive drm that checks the license every 30 days, but it doesn't specify on which day and what time, so the risk of losing speech is still just as high, for if your isp were to go down on the very day of the license check, you'd be screwed. I think I see a pattern. Some sort of intrusive drm is always used, no matter the developer of these addons. Although, with Nuance Vocalizer Automotive, it could be partially the users' fault, as several licenses were passed around, as being an ini file, it was extremely easy to pass around. So Tiflotechnia relized this, Nuance most likely stepped in and told them to use a strong drm. Because keep in mind, Tiflotechnia, Code FActory, any of those devs, they're essentially buying licenses from Nuance, which in turn are distributed to purchasers. With all these cracks floating around, what is Nuance losing? Money, of course. BEcause licenses aren't being bought from them. So Vocalizer Expressive comes, with intrusive drm. I do think, were it not for Nuance, the drm would be less overkill. Plenty of online drm systems that activate only once, work just fine. I'm saying that dispite the fact it can still be broken, because no drm system is every unbreakable, simply because it's software, and any software is breakable no matter what you do. Were it a one-time activation system, I'd actually consider buying these products, because as much as I'd hate to support Nuance, I would be willing to support Tiflotechnia and Code FActory, as well as Nv Access, with any of the money they get out of purchases. Because these, too, are just individual devs who actually want to help us, not the greedy corporation called Nuance. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271237#p271237 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @JackOK, so Nuance wants some form of protection on Eloquence, but did they specify a continuous connection form of DRM or is that Code Factory's doing? Since the DLLs have creation dates in 2015 and Code Factory's copyright statements all over them, I suspect that Code Factory, not Nuance, is to blame for the unreasonable DRM.@ExodusIt was never my intention to accuse you of stealing, if I did, my apologies.All I was trying to do was to inform some people that contrary to their belief, software piracy is in fact stealing.How long ago was Code Factory's Eloquence purchased? If it was within six months, and you paid with either a debit or credit card, you may still be able to get your money back by filing a complaint with the credit card company or your bank, declaring that Code Factory sold you a defective or non functional product.If you paid with PayPal, I'd look into what they can do to help settle the dispute.While complaining about them here might warn people away from them, it won't do anything to resolve your problem. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271229#p271229 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence I never stole from nuance, They can't even cry lost sails. Stop accusing me of theft please... thanks. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271120#p271120 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Gene, in the blog post where Nv Access explains why they can't do Eloquence in Nvda, they did point out that before Nuance stopped responding to them, not only were the prices they gave on the high end, they were hinting at the fact the copy protection would be required. Basically if it's not a direct driver for a paid screen reader, drm seems to be the requirement. The only Nuance product that doesn't have drm is Vocalizer for mac, because, well, the mac is serialized hardware. That makes sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271115#p271115 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @grryfindorThen let me put it to you this way, software piracy is stealing, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You will never convince me otherwise.@ExodusIf you had been following this thread, you would know that I am no fan of Nuance, so don't put words in my mouth, then kick me for your words.My only experience with Code Factory's Eloquence is with the Eloquence for SAPI 5 for Windows version, which I have no problems with. I don't use my phone enough to want to change it's voice.But I will agree with you that having to have a constant connection with the license server is over done. At most a periodic license check with flexibility for occasionally not being able to connect allowed for.Are you sure you are targeting the right company? Do you have proof that Nuance dictated the form the DRM on Eloquence should take? You might be surprised to learn that Nuance may not have placed any DRM requirements on Eloquence, that might be all Code Factory's doing. So before you vilify Nuance for the DRM on Eloquence, make sure that you aren't placing blame where none is deserved.Personally, if I had bought Eloquence for my phone and found it unusable because of the DRM, I'd contact Code Factory and demand the problem be fixed or my money returned. And if that doesn't get me anywhere, I'd go to my bank and fill out an affidavit declaring that Code Factory sold me an unusable product to get my money back. Then I'd look elsewhere for a new voice for my phone. I would definitely not steal from Nuance and use a cracked version! That accomplishes nothing except to add fule to the argument for DRM.@JackUnfortunately, you'd probably be wasting your time. Nuance doesn't have any free products, so it's very doubtful that they would care what the Free Software Foundation has to say. And in reverse, the Free Software Foundation may not care what Nuan ce does because Nuance doesn't support them. They might be in the same area, but they have their backs to each other. But if you want to try, knock your socks off! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271099#p271099 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @grryfindorThen let me put it to you this way, software piracy is stealing, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You will never convince me otherwise.@ExodusIf you are not going to contribute to the discussion intelligently, then just shut up and go away. If you had been following this thread, you would know that I am no fan of Nuance, so don't put words in my mouth, then kick me for your words.My only experience with Code Factory's Eloquence is with the Eloquence for SAPI 5 for Windows version, which I have no problems with. I don't use my phone enough to want to change it's voice.But I will agree with you that having to have a constant connection with the license server is over done. At most a periodic license check with flexibility for occasionally not being able to connect allowed for.Are you sure you are targeting the right company? Do you have proof that Nuance dictated the form the DRM on Eloquence should take? You might be surprised to learn that Nuance may not have placed any DRM requirements on Eloquence, that might be all Code Factory's doing. So before you vilify Nuance for the DRM on Eloquence, make sure that you aren't placing blame where none is deserved.Personally, if I had bought Eloquence for my phone and found it unusable because of the DRM, I'd contact Code Factory and demand the problem be fixed or my money returned. And if that doesn't get me anywhere, I'd go to my bank and fill out an affidavit declaring that Code Factory sold me an unusable product to get my money back. Then I'd look elsewhere for a new voice for my phone. I would definitely not steal from Nuance and use a cracked version! That accomplishes nothing except to add fule to the argument for DRM.@JackUnfortunately, you'd probably be wasting your time. Nuance doesn't have any free products, so it's very doubtful that they would care what the Free Software Foundation has to say. And in reverse, the Free Software Foundation may not care what Nuance does because Nuance doesn't support them. They might be in the same area, but they have their backs to each other. But if you want to try, knock your socks off! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271099#p271099 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @grryfindorThen let me put it to you this way, software piracy is stealing, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You will never convince me otherwise.@ExodusIf you are not going to contribute to the discussion intelligently, then just shut up and go away. If you had been following this thread, you would know that I am no fan of Nuance, so don't put words in my mouth, then kick me for your words.My only experience with Code Factory's Eloquence is with the Eloquence for SAPI 5 for Windows version, which I have no problems with. I don't use my phone enough to want to change it's voice.But I will agree with you that having to have a constant connection with the license server is over done. At most a periodic license check with flexibility for occasionally not being able to connect allowed for.Are you sure you are targeting the right company? Do you have proof that Nuance dictated the form the DRM on Eloquence should take? You might be surprised to learn that Nuance may not have placed any DRM requirements on Eloquence, that might be all Code Factory's doing. So before you vilify Nuance for the DRM on Eloquence, make sure that you aren't placing blame where none is deserved.Personally, if I had bought Eloquence for my phone and found it unusable because of the DRM, I'd contact Code Factory and demand the problem be fixed or my money returned. And if that doesn't get me anywhere, I'd go to my bank and fill out an affidavit declaring that Code Factory sold me an unusable product to get my money back. Then I'd look elsewhere for a new voice for my phone. I would definitely not steal from Nuance and use a cracked version! That accomplishes nothing except to add fule to the argument for DRM. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271099#p271099 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence If you are having problems with it, maybe it's your computer or your software set up that's the problem and not Code Factory's DRM or Eloquence.Yeah... must be the user's falt. It couldn't ever be precious, darling Nuance. They shine a light in the darkness, holding back the tide of thieves that threaten to steal everything that's not nailed down...So a problem with my setup? Let's firmly debunk that, as it's pure crap.My phone was connected to the internet when I purchased eloquence. Everything worked, the world was rosey. I went to college for the first time with the new phone. Soon as I enter the deadzone that surrounds my college, bam. no speech... Just the words unable to verify licence. Attempt to access settings to change TTS? unable to verify licence. Unlock the screen? unable to verify licence. That is not a problem with my computer/or setup. This is 1: deliberately inserted code that will screw over the user, wh ile giving them the middle finger and thanking them for paying for the privilage and 2: dishonest, as it's not mentioned anywhere at all that as soon as the program detects your lack of a signal, it'll up and turn your phone into a brick chrossed with a broken record.Also, with regards to...there are people willing to steal, companies will do what they can to prevent or slow it down, so I accept it, raging against it accomplishes nothing.Remember who else attempted to hoist this kind of unethical bullshit on their users?Microsoft. Remember how the xbox one was gonna have to call home every day just to keep functioning? Remember how it was gonna block used games? Remember the furious backlash that was the result of that? Have you noticed it doesn't do any of that as a result of the massive backlash? It's almost like... wowe they listened to people!Microsoft basically told everyone to suck it, Kinda like what nuance are doing now wit h their bulllshit DRM, The difference here is that noone got on their knees and opened up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271014#p271014 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @Figment,I'm not arguing... I'm stating personal matters out in the open. If you're arguing, I suppose you're entitled to that, but such efforts would honestly be futile as you have only yourself to conquer in such endeavors. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=271002#p271002 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Many of those questions are not valid arguments because, like the making a big mac comparison, they are not a valid comparison.Your friend with whom you shared a bag of Doritos doesn't owe anything because you paid for the Doritos, and can't eat what he eats, unless he regurgitates it first, and if you want to eat that, that is your choice.The friend who you played a song out of your music library for doesn't owe anything because all he is doing is listening to a song, just as if it were played by a radio station, when the song is over he doesn't have a copy of the song himself.Would you like me to continue to pick apart all your other invalid comparisons? Personally, I'd rather not, I have better things to do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270998#p270998 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Copyright. It's a pain and a half to discuss. Who owns what and why. If I buy a bag of doritos and share them with my neighbor, are they stealing because they are not providing money for the seller and manufacturer? if I purchase a song on iTunes then invite my neighbor to listen to it, are they breaking the law because they aren't providing money to Apple and thus royalties to musicians and the record labels? If I pay for WiFi and have a powerful router and my WiFi manages to reach my neighbor's house, would he be breaking the law for considering using it rather than paying up for his own service? Would I, because I want to share it?On the other side of the pond, companies are getting into the sharing business too. Is netflix responsible for criminal activity because it now provides huge family and friend plans where by people can all sign into the same account with different profiles to watch different stuff at the s ame time? Is Apple with its music service responsible for acts against artists as well? If Pandora and Spotify decide to join the lot, should we reevaluate laws as they currently stand?And for every question I raise you'll have your own oppinion as to why or why not. Things get murkier when we start discussing the way content is handled. One might say that the above music sharing practice is legal, while sending my neighbor a compressed MP3 file is not, even though he realistically isn't getting the full uncompressed song, because insert any number of reasons. Use sounds in a free game because they've been around for decades now. Don't use them to get ritch.Assuming that we wish to walk the path of legality, however, we don't share our doritos, we don't share our movies and music nor our streaming service subscriptions, we don't share our WiFi or our electricity or anything else because we' re oh so tired of walking an unethical path, why is it perfectly ok for corporations to dictate legislation rather than the people we, the people have elected to office to be respondant to our voice? Why is it ok for the million dollar conglomerate to steal as it sees fit from its consumer while pouring that money into the government in order to dictate the writing of such legislation? Why do we willingly take all of this sitting down and say that the law is the law because it is written as such? Why, for the life of me, do we still call this a democratic process if the fact is that we do allow ourselves to be ruled by those who wield wealth like a weapon? Should it truly be possible, even legal, for nuance or any other company to deny access to something that has benefited millions of blind and vision impaired individuals? If you're Martin Shkreli, yeah, I suppose the answer is plain and simple.But this isn't a topic about a game anymor e. This isn't about luxury. It's not about simply wanting a product for the sake of desire. This is about a benefit; a huge one. If you're blind and can use espeak, congratulations. if you're blind and your vocational assistance company is providing a free copy of JAWS for you, then good for you. If you're capable of buying JAWS because you have a fair amount of money or a good paying job, count yourself lucky.But why the elitist mindset? Why is there a need to make those who actually do have a reason for doing what they do rather than just for the sake of doing it feel bad? Why is it ok for the companies you value so much to steal from them while you laugh at them for it and brag about what you have in the process? Please, I ask you simplly to consider me. I am blind and severely hearing impaired. I have just left windows because the the prospect of staying is no longer good. I 39;m paying off a mac on credit with the limited amount of money I have because I needed a clearer voice than espeak, but I couldn't aford JAWS. My vocational assistance company, fully aware of my situation wouldn't even help me acquire hearing ades; I thank God I have a generous mother-in-law. Eloquence is supposedly out of the question because NVDA can't support it, and JAWS is really expensive. Nuance has declared a war against me and users like me by telling the NVDA developers it would not license its software, software which is beneficial to my every day life, and which could continue to benefit me immensely as life goes on and technology progresses to greater heights. Do you know what that feels like? No? Good. I hope you never have to face it, but if you do, remember that you thumbed your nose at me and my kind and labeled us criminals because we chose to walk a thin path we would rather not have walked while running w indows, even if only for a short amount of time, because our options and resources were limited. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270989#p270989 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence @JackIt's still not all Nuance's fault, those people could have sat down with Nuance and worked out a deal that was agreeable to all, but no, they forced Nuance into a hostile take over.@ExodusI completely agree that Eloquence without DRM would have been ideal. But I realize that as long as there are people willing to steal, companies will do what they can to prevent or slow it down, so I accept it, raging against it accomplishes nothing. And so far, I've had no trouble with Code Factory's DRM. Except for the activation and deactivation dialogs, I'm not even aware that it's there. And SAPI 5 Eloquence works without any problems too. So there's really nothing to complain about.If you are having problems with it, maybe it's your computer or your software set up that's the problem and not Code Factory's DRM or Eloquence.@SlenderThe problem is, Eloquence is not governed by a GPL. So removing an y DRM that may be protecting it would be a violation of the license agreement you accepted and agreed to when you installed it.None of you will ever convince me that there can ever be a legitimately valid reason to justify stealing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270954#p270954 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Hi, I think the last small update of Eloquence on JAWS was on Jaws 13, and no further updates have been made since then.I fear the day when JAWS will completely abolish Eloquence, but I hope it will reach 20 years of use at least. If this situation occurs, then I'll turn my eyes to mak.JAWS has made some improvements in the recent versions of JAWS, and I don't really know why the hell they don't maintain eloquence.If the case is that JAWS will do away with eloquence, then I'll perhaps go for NVDA or buy a mak computer. Buying the code factory license is never a good choice, since the sappy 5 TTS is dam slow compared to the built-in JAWS synthesiser.eloquence has been and will be my favourite voice on every possible platform it exists but sometimes money gets in and destroys everything as it is doing with Eloquence. Nuance wants to sell newer voices which are comprehensive, but never equal to Eloquence, at least to me. A voice which respects punctuations and is highly integrated linguistically.I also fear the day when Nuance will take over Ivona, one of the best TTS producers you can find today. Great and Natural sounding voices, fairly good integration with English dialects and much more I could say. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270870#p270870 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Well, you technically are not allowed to close source an nvda addon. So even though the dll for vocalizer is closed source, the addon itself is completely readable. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270813#p270813 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Video games have done things like that, instead of displaying error messages it introduces annoyances like invincible foes or the time when Crysis Warhead made your gun shoot chickens instead of bullets. In all seriousness, though, I do agree that the invasive DRM used in SAPI 5 eloquence is, as the FSF put it, defective by design. In fact, in the GNU GPL, there is a clause that specifically strips drM of its legal value, so if you broke the drm on something licensed under the gpL, you wouldn't be breaking the law. Though I'm not a lawyer, and my interpretation could be wrong, here's the clause I'm referring to that discusses dRM. "No covered work shall be deemed part of an effective technologicalmeasure under any applicable law fulfilling obligations under article11 of the WIPO copyright treaty adopted on 20 December 1996, orsimilar laws prohibiting or restricting circumvention of suchmeasures. When you convey a covere d work, you waive any legal power to forbidcircumvention of technological measures to the extent such circumventionis effected by exercising rights under this License with respect tothe covered work, and you disclaim any intention to limit operation ormodification of the work as a means of enforcing, against the work'susers, your or third parties' legal rights to forbid circumvention oftechnological measures."But I am not clear on the NVDA Code Factory addon, so I'm not sure if this clause would apply to it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270810#p270810 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Video games have done things like that, instead of displaying error messages it introduces annoyances like invincible foes or the time when Crysis Warhead made your gun shoot chickens instead of bullets. In all seriousness, though, I do agree that the invasive DRM used in SAPI 5 eloquence is, as the FSF put it, defective by design. In fact, in the GNU GPL specifically strips drM of its legal value, so if you broke the drm on something licensed under the gpL, you wouldn't be breaking the law. Though I'm not a lawyer, and my interpretation could be wrong, here's the clause I'm referring to that discusses dRM. "No covered work shall be deemed part of an effective technologicalmeasure under any applicable law fulfilling obligations under article11 of the WIPO copyright treaty adopted on 20 December 1996, orsimilar laws prohibiting or restricting circumvention of suchmeasures. When you convey a covered work, you waive any le gal power to forbidcircumvention of technological measures to the extent such circumventionis effected by exercising rights under this License with respect tothe covered work, and you disclaim any intention to limit operation ormodification of the work as a means of enforcing, against the work'susers, your or third parties' legal rights to forbid circumvention oftechnological measures." URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270810#p270810 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Video games have done things like that, instead of displaying error messages it introduces annoyances like invincible foes or the time when Crysis Warhead made your gun shoot chickens instead of bullets. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270810#p270810 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Buying Eloquence
Re: Buying Eloquence Lol! That would actually be a pretty fun encounter on the end of a person who's lost their license, at least they'd get a good laugh out of it! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=270809#p270809 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
