Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition You know the _expression_ (the customer is always right) actually originated from something different?As I recall, it actually refers to when you stock an objectively better item in place of a fan favorite, and people want that other thing back.It was co opted by some modern management idiots who would rather give unreasonable assholes what ever they want no matter how ridiculous it is just to get them to leave and not smear the company's name, and it's been the bayne of the service worker's existence ever since, especially now that people are taking advantage of it more and more to pull scams now that it's the status quo.Never mind the mental health or emotions of the poor minimum wage employee your screaming at and belittling as long as you get free shit you don't deserve, and all it does is enforce the notion that they are right and continues the cycle. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/422430/#p422430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition You know the _expression_ (the customer is always right) actually originated from something different?As I recall, it actually refers to when you stock an objectively better item in place of a fan favorite, and people want that other thing back.It was co opted by some idiots who would rather give unreasonable assholes what ever they want no matter how ridiculous it is just to get them to leave and not smear the company's name, and it's been the bain of the service worker's existence ever sense, especially now that people are taking advantage of it more and more to pull scams now that it's the status quo.Never mind the mental health or emotions of the poor minimum wage employee your screaming at and belittling as long as you get free shit you don't deserve, and all it does is enforce the notion that they are right and continues the cycle. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/422430/#p422430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition I didn't think it would, honestly. I wrote this because I was frustrated, not necessarily so that everyone would agree with me, though I'm glad to know I'm not alone.I will say though, that since this is an appropriate topic, I don't think the customer is always right either. For example: those customers... that think your game should be free? No. I also don't think those are blind community specific, and generally when you get a person like that, a bunch of people go after them. So I refuse to put that on the blind community entirely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/422321/#p422321 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Does anyone else find it ironic that this quote unpopular opinion unquote has 13 upvotes and allot of people don't even bother upvoting even if they do like a post and they are registered so it could have even been way more? LOL URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421865/#p421865 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : dardar via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Hi there,So I freely admit, I read posts 1 to 9, and then skipped to the end, if I missed someone mentioning me, I'm sozzles.This post really spoke to me, on a number of levels and I wanted to express this. First, the phrase, "Don't like it? Go make one of your own." Has always amused me. because I did, and the other game suffered for it. Side note: This is why that phrase is disallowed on my online game, and any staff member using it generally gets a good old fashioned ear bashing.Anyway, where was I?All I can say is, I really really agree with post 1. I had a rather humbling experience last year I think it was? I put a post in the off topic room asking if my company had helped anyone. The general consensus was, no. The post that I remember the most went along the lines of, "Nathan Tech who?"The reason I write about this is because it put things really into perspective for me. Sure, I'd made a few games, had a website and sure a few people played it, but there was an entire *community*. A *load* of people who had never heard of me, what I was trying to do, or the vision I was trying to project.That, for me, set a new goal. A new vision. To create programs that were either unique in ther functionality, or, made otherwise difficult task very easy.I think the thing that a lot of developers struggle with these days is the what I call feedback negativity.I'm not talking about the not being able to take bad feedback, as much as talking about either of the following happening:1. Gripers post, but lovers don't.or, 2. Lovers post, and gripers don't.That seems backwards, right? But situation 1 creates a feeling of hopelessness in most people, while situation 2 creates hubris.Hubris: A feeling of god-like pride.Having gotten this far into the post, I now have forgotten what I was originally going to say. So...TLDR, I 100 percent agree with post 1, and hope that if I have broken what I consider to be almost golden rules of development, then I hope someone pulls me aside and bashes me over the head with them.Also, sorry for typos, new keyboard and all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421546/#p421546 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Well, right now, I'll be honest and say that the biggest issue I'm having is those people who come up here and say, hey, we have a new game in development that'll let you do a bunch of stuff that sounds cool and there's more ideas in the works that we haven't figured out or begun coding... No link to trailor or concept demo or anything. They keep posting about it and trying to hype up the experience but we don't see a game for awhile. When we finally do see a game, if we ever see a game, it's a complete anticlimax to what the original post suggested, but then we're supposed to sit back and be greatful.Part of it, I know, happens to be that I come from a mainstream gaming era that remembers a time when you bought a finished product and that's precisely what it was, a finished product. No going back, no version 2.0 for developers and 1.9.8.7.65 for stable use, no beta concept, no alpha testing phase. What you get is what you get, pay your money and go. Sure, you could return it if it actually didn't work, or in some cases, at a store that would let you trade it in for another game, but that was rare. That means that I'm less likely to try a game out here with everyone else unless I can vouch for the person being a reputable dev who has produced something before that was worth trying. Until then, I watch what everyone else posts, and that can get rather dicy, because if all I'm seeing is a dramafest or a flamewar, I'm more than likely going to stay away from the game entirely.I wrote this article a few months ago, and this topic at least, does seem to contain evidence of much of what I'm saying. As the internet has grown in size, what we've come to expect and why has also changed. Just like anyone can get behind a mic and a cam and become youtube material, just about anyone who really has the time to kill and the patience to burn can pick up a programming language or a powerful scripting library or what have you and start trying to produce, regardless how much of it is or is not up to any kind of reputable standard. I'm not sure what the audiogaming scene was like in 2003 because I didn't get into audiogaming until 2010, but I have a vague suspicion that if you lookedat audiogaming as a hole and mainstream gaming side by side you'd see a ton of similarities. In mainstream gaming, you used to go to physical places to retrieve a product you already knew was going to work the way it was going to work... PERIOD. If you didn't want to pay for it out right, you were going to find some way to rent it or borrow it from a friend, but the product was done. Mainstreamers don't really need to do that anymore.Everything is changing as the net grow slarger. We used to hang out in small groups in chatrooms or message boards and discuss our interests in that manner. Sometimes discussions got heated because of a couple of bad eggs, but overall the civility was something of a standard. Today, social networking consists of who has the most friends or followers, how many of them agree with what you are saying, how many of them are commenting on what you are saying, how many of them are driving up your counter on this or that article or item or review, and how much overall support you can drum up in general for whatever it is you are doing. If you're big, you're mostly set. If you're one of the small fish, your voice may be lost in the sea of daily crazy that never ends.It's the same through out life in general; we used to go up to local offices to pay bills. All of that's automated now. We used to go to local stores to shop for everything from accessories to groceries to toys. Now, accessories and toys come from Amazon and Ebay, and even groceries are not necessarily something you need to leave home to obtain. Even breakups occur over the net, because I don't wana see your face when I tell you I'm gonna go out with someone else and you're just not for me or I'm just not for you and vice versa. Have you been to a house recently where you didn't see an internet connection? If so, did that house belong to someone who was less than 50 years old?TV's, PC's, tablets, microwaves, ovens, clothes washers and dryers, baby monitors and even children's toys themselves all sport some kind of internet connectivity so that you can either send information, receive information, or both. Depending on who we ask, we're either lazier because of all of this connectivity or we're more productive as a result. I remain undecided; I find it interesting that people no longer feel the need to remember how to spell a word because spellcheck, no longer need to pay attention in school because google and wikipedia, no longer have to remember the instructions to a recipe while cooking because "Hey, siri!"It's good and bad, like everything else in life. Don't drink enough water and you're dehydrated. Drink too much water and you'll mess up your kidnies and
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Well, right now, I'll be honest and say that the biggest issue I'm having is those people who come up here and say, hey, we have a new game in development that'll let you do a bunch of stuff that sounds cool and there's more ideas in the works that we haven't figured out or begun coding... No link to trailor or concept demo or anything. They keep posting about it and trying to hype up the experience but we don't see a game for awhile. When we finally do see a game, if we ever see a game, it's a complete anticlimax to what the original post suggested, but then we're supposed to sit back and be greatful.Part of it, I know, happens to be that I come from a mainstream gaming erra that remembers a time when you bought a finished product and that's precisely what it was, a finished product. No going back, no version 2.0 for developers and 1.9.8.7.65 for stable use, no beta concept, no alpha testing phase. What you get is what you get, pay your money and go. Sure, you could return it if it actually didn't work, or in some cases, at a store that would let you trade it in for another game, but that was rare. That means that I'm less likely to try a game out here with everyone else unless I can vouch for the person being a reputable dev who has produced something before that was worth trying. Until then, I watch what everyone else posts, and that can get rather dicy, because if all I'm seeing is a dramafest or a flamewar, I'm more than likely going to stay away from the game entirely.I wrote this article a few months ago, and this topic at least, does seem to contain evidence of much of what I'm saying. As the internet has grown in size, what we've come to expect and why has also changed. Just like anyone can get behind a mic and a cam and become youtube material, just about anyone who really has the time to kill and the patience to burn can pick up a programming language or a powerful scripting library or what have you and start trying to produce, regardless how much of it is or is not up to any kind of reputable standard. I'm not sure what the audiogaming scene was like in 2003 because I didn't get into audiogaming until 2010, but I have a vague suspicion that if you lookedat audiogaming as a hole and mainstream gaming side by side you'd see a ton of similarities. In mainstream gaming, you used to go to physical places to retrieve a product you already knew was going to work the way it was going to work... PERIOD. If you didn't want to pay for it out right, you were going to find some way to rent it or borrow it from a friend, but the product was done. Mainstreamers don't really need to do that anymore.Everything is changing as the net grow slarger. We used to hang out in small groups in chatrooms or message boards and discuss our interests in that manner. Sometimes discussions got heated because of a couple of bad eggs, but overall the civility was something of a standard. Today, social networking consists of who has the most friends or followers, how many of them agree with what you are saying, how many of them are commenting on what you are saying, how many of them are driving up your counter on this or that article or item or review, and how much overall support you can drum up in general for whatever it is you are doing. If you're big, you're mostly set. If you're one of the small fish, your voice may be lost in the sea of daily crazy that never ends.It's the same through out life in general; we used to go up to local offices to pay bills. All of that's automated now. We used to go to local stores to shop for everything from accessories to groceries to toys. Now, accessories and toys come from Amazon and Ebay, and even groceries are not necessarily something you need to leave home to obtain. Even breakups occur over the net, because I don't wana see your face when I tell you I'm gonna go out with someone else and you're just not for me or I'm just not for you and vice versa. Have you been to a house recently where you didn't see an internet connection? If so, did that house belong to someone who was less than 50 years old?TV's, PC's, tablets, microwaves, ovens, clothes washers and dryers, baby monitors and even children's toys themselves all sport some kind of internet connectivity so that you can either send information, receive information, or both. Depending on who we ask, we're either lazier because of all of this connectivity or we're more productive as a result. I remain undecided; I find it interesting that people no longer feel the need to remember how to spell a word because spellcheck, no longer need to pay attention in school because google and wikipedia, no longer have to remember the instructions to a recipe while cooking because "Hey, siri!"It's good and bad, like everything else in life. Don't drink enough water and you're dehydrated. Drink too much water and you'll mess up your kidnies and
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Steevo more or less said what I've been saying on and off for years now, and while he used allot of frankly kinda weird examples and was pretty long winded about it (pot calling the kettle black I know( it's very nice to hear it from a developer. I was never comfortable taking that last step, potentially putting my foot in my mouth and saying things on this subject that I'd never experienced my self from the coder end of things, but I feel more comfortable with sharing my stance on it now.As for new dev respect? Honestly I just go based on the vibes of their first game post, the title's perceived uniqueness and quality is the first thing I judge, then, if I've never heard of them before, how professionally they discuss their project milestones/goals, how they talk (and it seems to come through most of the time even with someone who is still learning English) the tone they take towards the community, weather they are sighted or blind, new or experienced coders, their stated age, and the type of game. After that I usually wait for review posts from others to start rolling in, looking for a few specific names that I trust.Unless it's a clearly low effort, badly translated, copycat game made by a teen for status points, then I'll always give it a thumbs up no matter what, because hey, they got a game out. Even if it's clearly a practice game or a quickly thrown together concept demo/pre alpha that belongs in the dev room, I usually will as long as they are honest about it's rudimentary state and aren't bragging about it.This attitude has just come with experience, and I do not personally see it as anyone earning (my) respect, and I think it's just common sense for the most part.I think a post from the other side of the coin (common things that players do that are unfair) but done in a constructive and understanding way rather than how it usually comes out would be nice too.I think most of the longtime members already know allot of that stuff, but it can be easy to get ahead of ones self and forget it, plus we have allot of younger members that could benefit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421318/#p421318 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Thanks for clarifying, and I understand. I didn't take it as a personal attack either or get offended. I just hope you knew that I do consider other people, and that for the most part, I believe they are good. To me, everyone except for those who have crossed certain lines, - and this goes far beyond anything you could do on a game - deserves that baseline respect and consideration. Every man for himself is just a nicer way of saying hey let's go pick on the weeker and easier targets so I can get what I want and not feel bad about it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421276/#p421276 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Well I do start with a neutral outlook on people, a sort of base level of human respect, and yes I feel that you do have to earn my respect, I will not give it away. That's how I've always been and will always be. Innocent until guilty, that's for lawyers and judges and juries. If I think you've done something, I'm going to let you know I think you've done it. Also, sorry, but you or anyone else doesn't get to insist upon anything from me, though you can ask it, and if asked respectfully, I will most often grant it if it is within my ability to do so. My neutral level does come with a bit of wary mistrust, sure, but that's due to experience, and I won't treat you like shit because of it, I will be watchful though. My watchfullness could have saved some friends of a friend, but I only told my friend about what kind of vibes I got from this person they had living with them. Two months later, this person attempted to rob them at gun point, and steal one of their cars, so yes, I am watchful, yes I am wary of new people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421278/#p421278 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Thanks for clarifying, and I understand. I didn't take it as a personal attack either or get offended. I just hope you knew that I do consider other people, and that for the most part, I believe they are good. To me, everyone except for those who have crossed certain lines, - and this goes far beyond anything you could do on a game - deserves respect and consideration. Every man for himself is just a nicer way of saying hey let's go pick on the weeker and easier targets so I can get what I want and not feel bad about it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421276/#p421276 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Stevo, it's not only you - not primarily you in fact - who's talked about respect being earned. I'm not intending to point specific fingers. I just don't like this notion that you have to earn my respect.I mean okay, yes. Can you earn more respect than you start with? Damn right you can. But I try and start with everyone being innocent till proven guilty, not just dead neutral. I prefer a bit above that. You have at least a bit of my respect, and your actions will determine whether or not you lose it. If you have done something on your own time that is aimed at some sort of greater good? that baseline goes up a notch or two, depending on how you portray it. I don't put you above me, or below me. But in the same breath, that basic courtesy and innocent-till-proven-guilty thing? I expect it as well, and nearly insist upon it in some cases. I am firmly convinced that some of the problems we have in the world today are out of a lack of consideration for other people.Again, Stevo, I am not picking on you here. I respect what you're saying and I actually mostly agree with it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421273/#p421273 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition I think you misunderstood me in post 23. While I said what I said, I did not mean we should welcome in them with disrespect either. This is not a guilty until proven innocent type of thing, not in the least bit. No, when someone comes in here and creates a game, at least I (this is my opinion) am optomistic towards it, and automatically I admire what they have done and I think it's great they did that. Hell, my first thing worth a line of code was this stupid little game where you went on a side scroller and tried to shoot this opponent named James to death before he could fire back in time. It probably sounds a lot more fun than it is. I can't say it makes me respect them right off the bat though. Think they're pretty cool? Yeah. Feel welcoming and optomistic? Again, yeah. But respect is as much an opinion as anything else, and I respect a person once I get to know them well enough to offer the respect. I don't come in with a pecimistic viewpoint, and I feel you may have unintentionally jumped the gun there in assuming that. Perhaps I wasn't clear in post 1, and I gave off an unwelcoming vibe, and if so I do appoligize as that was not my intent. This isn't some twisted prison situation where the lil freshmen's just a puke until he does what we expect out of him, and then and only then will he be more than a lowly fish. As far as I'm concerned, all strangers - the athletes, the celebrities, the philanthropists, the construction workers, the plummers and the janitors and the teachers and the night watchmen, everyone who does everything that isn't law breaking and does so to help others, their families, and themselves, is equal in my eyes until I meet them or have some other way of determining what kind of person they are to other people.I do not eye them with some sort of weary distrust and complete lack of respect, I view them neutrally. I respect what they've done and I admire them for doing it, but I don't yet have respect for them beyond the basic human respect we all deserve, which is that we all deserve to be respected as humans. In my opinion respect, like that respect where someone is placed above me, like trust, is earned and not just given to someone for creating a game. And on the flip side? I don't expect them to put me above them, though I do ask that they afford me the basic human respect. So, given that I don't expect anything from brand new game developers, and that I treat them neutrally and respect them when I feel they have earned my respect, I do not at all see how I am being entitled. No-one I haven't done a service for and or contractually decided so owes me crap. And keep in mind, they wouldn't have made that first move if there wasn't a small something - be that publicity, players, or in some cases money, in it for them. No, they might just be doing it for us and strictly nothing's in it for them? Okay, then have no one play the game. If they don't care one bit that no-one plays a game they submitted to everybody, I'll believe that. And by the way, releasing a game here because there's something in it for you is most 100% definitely not anything resembling a bad thing. You have the right to expect compensation or at least hope for it, for the work you put in if allowing other people to play it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421270/#p421270 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : TBlaze via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @Number1 Good post. I won't rehash What everyone has said but some good points are: We could be critical Without being disrespectful, and that goes Both ways. Some people Just enjoy being nasty, and that"s something that's never going To change, so lets just start with respect. Also growing, and learning is something that we never stop doing, so be thankful for that. WE're all here because we enjoy games. Lets keep that going, and have fun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421264/#p421264 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Yeah with Jayde and post 23; that one's kind of a given really. For the most part I'd say respect is earned, but if someone is providing a service, you should at the very least come in with a neutral standpoint rather than a pecemistic one that oh, this is gonna suck! It's common courtesy in my opinion. I think a lot of people do a lot of being nice instead of being kind. The difference? When you meet a member of the opposite sex you think you're falling for, you're nice as nice can be, sometimes ignoring even the most obvious falts of that individual. Kindness, on the other hand, is more than that, because kindness shows you actually care about the individual in question. There is fake niceness but no fake kindness. Fake niceness is rather 2faced indeed! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421259/#p421259 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition I think there's a fine line between expressing a negative opinion and being harsh with it, but I recognize that the differences in where that line lies will make things tricky. Never do I want people to feel as if they cannot express negative opinions, but I do want people to remember that if they're bashing something, there is always another human being at the other end who's receiving it. I think sometimes this fact is lost.Other than that, I generally agree here. One exception though.Respect, I think, should be given by default, at least a little. So you come out of absolutely nowhere and say you've made a game. On the one hand, I'm not going to fall on my knees and thank you without knowing what your game is like. On the other hand, I'm going to probably say something encouraging, at least to start with, before attempting to play, because you, not I, made that first move. You took it on yourself to risk things, and that deserves respect by default. Now, of course, it's easy enough to lose that consideration if you do a bad job either of gamebuilding or player handling, but until or unless you do, I figure to give you the benefit of the doubt. To me, the idea that you make a game and then still have to earn my respect comes across as entitled as hell. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421235/#p421235 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @18 I don't think it' so much an issue that concerns us particularly as a matter of scale. Sure, this may happen a lot in the blind comunity. But I'm certain that it happens just as much where mainstream gaming is concerned, it's just a lot less noticeable because if one game doesn't deliver, there are a million others who do. As an example, right now there are hundreds of fps games sighted people can play, many of which produced in franchises with a lot of content and regular updates supported by large development studios. The one fps game we have that's still up and recent is tk, and we're not even sure if that's gonna get any updates in the near future or the server goes away again. And we still don't have any civilization games... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421200/#p421200 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @The Dwarfer, post 17, glad you caught on to that suttle hint and took the trip down memory lain, as it were. As far as what you were, it's not what you are now. You grew up... I'm 31 and I'm still growing up. You're willing to be held acountable for what you did before; that's a beautiful new beginning. No, I really wasn't testing you; honestly you have no real reason to listen to me anymore anyway... I'm not a mod; call it friend to friend if you can, given you and I don't really talk regularly but I do like to watch out for the community best I can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421183/#p421183 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. If you go into a project knowing it's a group effort, then there shouldn't be any fear with respect to code, since the code belongs to all of you. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on either before or shortly after release, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers, something which seems extremely disrespectful to me. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, including burnout because the developer tried to fly solo when they shouldn't have, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. If you go into a project knowing it's a group effort, then there shouldn't be any fear with respect to code, since the code belongs to all of you. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on either before or shortly after release, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers, something which seems extremely disrespectful to me. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, including burnout because you tried to fly solo when you shouldn't have, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. If you go into a project knowing it's a group effort, then there shouldn't be any fear with respect to code, since the code belongs to all of you. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on either before or shortly after release, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers, something with seems extremely disrespectful to me. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, including burnout because you tried to fly solo when you shouldn't have, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. If you go into a project knowing it's a group effort, then there shouldn't be any fear with respect to code, since the code belongs to all of you. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers, something with seems extremely disrespectful to me. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, including burnout because you tried to fly solo when you shouldn't have, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. If you go into a project knowing it's a group effort, then there shouldn't be any fear with respect to code, since the code belongs to all of you. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, including burnout because you tried to fly solo when you shouldn't have, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, including burnout because you tried to fly solo when you shouldn't have, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition But Iron Cross,, if you're working together on a project, than sharing your code is just part of that. Everybody shares the code in the group. It's not at all the same thing. It's a collaborative project. The same fear doesn't apply. It's not even remotely the same as being stolen from if you fly solo. In this case, everybody works together on the code, so no one person would have rights to it anyway. It's a group effort, and therefore, belongs to the group as a whole. And that doesn't address the other issues that I raised: The ease with which projects are tossed aside and given up on, the ridiculously high amount of turnover, the fact that devs just disappear without even a word of warning to customers. I have to wonder if these aren't caused by emotional/mental aspects, and I do wonder if a shift in mentality that leans toward teamwork might lessen these things. It's less likely that I'm going to suffer burnout if I've got a group behind me, support and input of others, someone helping me with coding, testing, design, and other logistics. I'll have more enthusiasm about my project. I'll be able to focus on making it great, instead of dreading the fact that I'm one person trying to do 5 people's job. Seems like a no-brainer to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421169/#p421169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition I think its down to not wanting to share code rather than credit, and I can see why. Still, I think it's time to move past that fear, justified though it may be. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421165/#p421165 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @#1, Very well-written post. I agree with what you wrote. I have some thoughts and questions that I've been mulling over for a while now, looking for clear answers. My thoughts are not aimed at any one developer here. Nor is any disrespect or offense intended. I have to wonder whether most of the developers that tend to work in this community are less sturdy or hearty, if you will, than mainstream developers, if that makes sense. What I mean is this. How many times have we seen games started, but never completed? How many times have we seen developers pump up the hype for a game they're going to release, only then to either never release it, or abandon it so shortly after release that it never becomes the game it should have been? We've even had developers who just disappear with no warning to their customers, even when the customers are paying ones. Is that because of the community at large, or does it simply represent the caliber of emotional and intellectual stability of the developers that tend to work in this community? It seems as though developers in this community, whether blind or sighted, tend to have less sticking power than those in the mainstream world. It seems to me that projects are very easily given up on at the drop of a hat. I've seen developers pop up, stay for two or three months, then poof, never to be heard from again. And why is it that developers in this community have such a deadset, unshakable, immutable mentality against working with one another for the most part? It's been done a handful of times, sure. And you know what? Projects made when teamwork occurs tend to be pleasing ones. Yet, for some reason that is an anathema to me, most developers in this community absolutely insist on flying solo. Why? With the proliferation of file sharing and telecommunication tools there is absolutely no reason that you couldn't work together, even if you live in different continents. And teamwork lessens the load on everyone. More ideas for things can be implemented. Coding gets done faster, and thusly, games get released in less time, allowing more games to be developed. It might take a solo developer 2 years to release a game, whereas if they work together, it might take half that time. The single developer no longer is bogged down with enormous pressure of being the only one trying to handle everything. Less pressure equals more enthusiasm, a clearer mind, and less chance of burnout, right? Is it that blind people just find it harder to work in groups? Are we so socially stunted because of our lack of sight that it makes it a massive hardship? Are we just terrified of interaction? On the rare occasions that people have worked together to create things, they've actually turned out to be decent. Doesn't that help to show other devs that teamwork can be useful? I just don't get why everyone wants to be so isolated. Maybe it simply boils down to not wanting to share the credit, but if that's the case, then I posit that we've got our priorities out of order. I'd much rather share the credit with others and create a game that will last and be enjoyed by all, over worrying about getting all the glory and end up creating something half as good as it could have been. It just saddens me to see that we have such talent in terms of intellect in this community, but for some reason it seems to rarely be used to its fullest potential. We lose more devs than we gain. Turnover is rampantly high. Something gets in the way. If we ever figure out what that something is, and actually take steps to surpass it, we might actually turn a corner and flourish like never before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421158/#p421158 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @#1, Very well-written post. I agree with what you wrote. I have some thoughts and questions that I've been mulling over for a while now, looking for clear answers. My thoughts are not aimed at any one developer here. Nor is any disrespect or offense intended. I have to wonder whether most of the developers that tend to work in this community are less sturdy or hearty, if you will, than mainstream developers, if that makes sense. What I mean is this. How many times have we seen games started, but never completed? How many times have we seen developers pump up the hype for a game they're going to release, only then to either never release it, or abandon it so shortly after release that it never becomes the game it should have been? We've even had developers who just disappear with no warning to their customers, even when the customers are paying ones. Is that because of the community at large, or does it simply represent the caliber of emotional and intellectual stability of the developers that tend to work in this community? It seems as though developers in this community, whether blind or sighted, tend to have less sticking power than those in the mainstream world. It seems to me that projects are very easily given up on at the drop of a hat. I've seen developers pop up, stay for two or three months, then poof, never to be heard from again. And why is it that developers in this community have such a deadset, unshakable, immutable mentality against working with one another for the most part? It's been done a handful of times, sure. And you know what? Projects made when teamwork occurs tend to be pleasing ones. Yet, for some reason that is an anathema to me, most developers in this community absolutely insist on flying solo. Why? With the proliferation of file sharing and telecommunication tools there is absolutely no reason that you couldn't work together, even if you live in different continents. And teamwork lessens the load on everyone. More ideas for things can be implemented. Coding gets done faster, and thusly, games get released in less time, allowing more games to be developed. It might take a solo developer 2 years to release a game, whereas if they work together, it might take half that time. The single developer no longer is bogged down with enormous pressure of being the only one trying to handle everything. Less pressure equals more enthusiasm, a clearer mind, and less chance of burnout, right? Is it that blind people just find it harder to work in groups? Are we so socially stunted because of our lack of sight that it makes it a massive hardship? Are we just terrified of interaction? On the rare occasions that people have worked together to create things, they've actually turned out to be decent. Doesn't that help to show other devs that teamwork can be useful? I just don't get why everyone wants to be so isolated. Maybe it simply boils down to not wanting to share the credit, but if that's the case, then I posit that we've got our priorities out of order. I'd much rather share the credit with others and create a game that will last and be enjoyed by all, rather than worry about getting all the glory and end up creating something half as good as it could have been. It just saddens me to see that we have such talent in terms of intellect in this community, but for some reason it seems to rarely be used to its fullest potential. We lose more devs than we gain. Turnover is rampantly high. Something gets in the way. If we ever figure out what that something is, and actually take steps to surpass it, we might actually turn a corner and flourish like never before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421158/#p421158 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @#1, Very well-written post. I agree with what you wrote. I have some thoughts and questions that I've been mulling over for a while now, looking for clear answers. My thoughts are not aimed at any one developer here. Nor is any disrespect or offense intended. I have to wonder whether most of the developers that tend to work in this community are less sturdy or hearty, if you will, than mainstream developers, if that makes sense. What I mean is this. How many times have we seen games started, but never completed? How many times have we seen developers pump up the hype for a game they're going to release, only then to either never release it, or abandon it so shortly after release that it never becomes the game it should have been? We've even had developers who just disappear with no warning to their customers, even when the customers are paying ones. Is that because of the community at large, or does it simply represent the caliber of emotional and intellectual stability of the developers that tend to work in this community? It seems as though developers in this community, whether blind or sighted, tend to have less sticking power than those in the mainstream world. It seems to me that projects are very easily given up on at the drop of a hat. I've seen developers pop up, stay for two or three months, then poof, never to be heard from again. And why is it that developers in this community have such a deadset, unshakable, immutable mentality against working with one another for the most part? It's been done a handful of times, sure. And you know what? Projects made when teamwork occurs tend to be pleasing ones. Yet, for some reason that is an anathema to me, most developers in this community absolutely insist on flying solo. Why? With the proliferation of file sharing and telecommunication tools there is absolutely no reason that you couldn't work together, even if you live in different continents. And teamwork lessens the load on everyone. More ideas for things can be implemented. Coding gets done faster, and thusly, games get released in less time, allowing more games to be developed. It might take a solo developer 2 years to release a game, whereas if they work together, it might take half that time. The single developer no longer is bogged down with enormous pressure of being the only one trying to handle everything. Less pressure equals more enthusiasm, a clearer mind, and less chance of burnout, right? Is it that blind people just find it harder to work in groups? Are we so socially stunted because of our lack of sight that it makes it a massive hardship? Are we just terrified of interaction? On the rare occasions that people have worked together to create things, they've actually turned out to be decent. Doesn't that help to show other devs that teamwork can be useful? I just don't get why everyone wants to be so isolated. Maybe it simply boils down to not wanting to share the credit, but if that's the case, then I posit that we've got our priorities out of order. I'd much rather share the credit with others and create a game that will last and be enjoyed by all, rather than worry about getting all the glory and end up creating something half as good as it could have been. It just saddens me to see that we have such talent in terms of intellect in this community, but for some reason it seems to rarely be used to its fullest potential. Something gets in the way. If we ever figure out what that something is, and actually take steps to surpass it, we might actually turn a corner and flourish like never before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421158/#p421158 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @#1, Very well-written post. I agree with what you wrote. I have some thoughts and questions that I've been mulling over for a while now, looking for clear answers. My thoughts are not aimed at any one developer here. Nor is any disrespect or offense intended. I have to wonder whether most of the developers that tend to work in this community are less sturdy or hearty, if you will, than mainstream developers, if that makes sense. What I mean is this. How many times have we seen games started, but never completed? How many times have we seen developers pump up the hype for a game they're going to release, only then to either never release it, or abandon it so shortly after release that it never becomes the game it should have been? We've even had developers who just disappear with no warning to their customers, even when the customers are paying ones. Is that because of the community at large, or does it simply represent the caliber of emotional and intellectual stability of the developers that tend to work in this community? It seems as though developers in this community, whether blind or sighted, tend to have less sticking power than those in the mainstream world. It seems to me that projects are very easily given up on at the drop of a hat. I've seen developers pop up, stay for two or three months, then poof, never to be heard from again. And why is it that developers in this community have such a deadset, unshakable, immutable mentality against working with one another for the most part? It's been done a handful of times, sure. And you know what? Projects made when teamwork occurs tend to be pleasing ones. Yet, for some reason that is an anathema to me, most developers in this community absolutely insist on flying solo. Why? With the proliferation of file sharing and telecommunication tools there is absolutely no reason that you couldn't work together, even if you live in different continents. And teamwork lessens the load on everyone. The single developer no longer is bogged down with enormous pressure of being the only one trying to handle everything. Less pressure equals more enthusiasm and less chance of burnout, right? Is it that blind people just find it harder to work in groups? Are we so socially stunted because of our lack of sight that it makes it a massive hardship? Are we just terrified of interaction? On the rare occasions that people have worked together to create things, they've actually turned out to be decent. Doesn't that help to show other devs that teamwork can be useful? I just don't get why everyone wants to be so isolated. Maybe it simply boils down to not wanting to share the credit, but if that's the case, then I posit that we've got our priorities out of order. I'd much rather share the credit with others and create a game that will last and be enjoyed by all, rather than worry about getting all the glory and end up creating something half as good as it could have been. It just saddens me to see that we have such talent in terms of intellect in this community, but for some reason it seems to rarely be used to its fullest potential. Something gets in the way. If we ever figure out what that something is, and actually take steps to surpass it, we might actually turn a corner and flourish like never before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421158/#p421158 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @#1, Very well-written post. I agree with what you wrote. I have some thoughts and questions that I've been mulling over for a while now, looking for clear answers. My thoughts are not aimed at any one developer here. Nor is any disrespect or offense intended. I have to wonder whether most of the developers that tend to work in this community are less sturdy or hearty, if you will, than mainstream developers, if that makes sense. What I mean is this. How many times have we seen games started, but never completed? How many times have we seen developers pump up the hype for a game they're going to release, only then to either never release it, or abandon it so shortly after release that it never becomes the game it should have been? We've even had developers who just disappear with no warning to their customers, even when the customers are paying ones. Is that because of the community at large, or does it simply represent the caliber of emotional and intellectual stability of the developers that tend to work in this community? It seems as though developers in this community, whether blind or sighted, tend to have less sticking power than those in the mainstream world. It seems to me that projects are very easily given up on at the drop of a hat. I've seen developers pop up, stay for two or three months, then poof, never to be heard from again. And why is it that developers in this community have such a deadset, unshakable, immutable mentality against working with one another for the most part? It's been done a handful of times, sure. And you know what? Projects made when teamwork occurs tend to be pleasing ones. Yet, for some reason that is an anathema to me, most developers in this community absolutely insist on flying solo. Why? With the proliferation of file sharing and telecommunication tools there is absolutely no reason that you couldn't work together, even if you live in different continents. And teamwork lessens the load on everyone. Is it that blind people just find it harder to work in groups? Are we so socially stunted because of our lack of sight that it makes it a massive hardship? Are we just terrified of interaction? On the rare occasions that people have worked together to create things, they've actually turned out to be decent. Doesn't that help to show other devs that teamwork can be useful? I just don't get why everyone wants to be so isolated. Maybe it simply boils down to not wanting to share the credit, but if that's the case, then I posit that we've got our priorities out of order. I'd much rather share the credit with others and create a game that will last and be enjoyed by all, rather than worry about getting all the glory and end up creating something half as good as it could have been. It just saddens me to see that we have such talent in terms of intellect in this community, but for some reason it seems to rarely be used to its fullest potential. Something gets in the way. If we ever figure out what that something is, and actually take steps to surpass it, we might actually turn a corner and flourish like never before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421158/#p421158 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Also, re post 4: I went and read the ultra power topic, except I went beyond page 2. Wow. I can speak for myself when I say I was one stubborn and sometimes unreasonable 14 year old. So many people got carried away in that topic, and I hope post 1 conveyed that that kind of thing was not what I was advocating. That also to me falls under the realm of pointless bickering. Basically? You can assume that if a topic had to be closed or straight up deleted, I'm not condoning it. I think the mods here have a good grasp on what is tollerable and those closed topics speak for themselves. Again, the point of that was to shead light on my own prospective, to potentially see if I could bring a new outlook to the table, or if not, in the very least raise some questions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421152/#p421152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @15 couldn't agree more. That's one thing I should've addressed in my post, but it was late at night. There comes a time when a game is finished, and just because of that fact, it's not abandonware. Not everyone's suggestions will be implemented, and that's okay. I think often times we forget that when buying software, or anything for that matter, we are buying it as is, not placing a slim investment on what we hope it will be in the future some day. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421106/#p421106 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition In full agreement here. I think there's been too much ass kissing going on here, where the community will want to play literally anything that comes out, even if it is utter garbage. That doesn't really help though. It doesn't help them, because then they don't get a good experience, and it doesn't help the developer, who needs to know what to improve on. We give too much leeway to the cloners, whom we should completely ignore at this point. What makes me respect a developer is their interaction with the community and their customer support. I think everyone's itching for new games to play, but that shouldn't mean we set the bar so low that we let anything in, and look past the morals of those who have made the less reputable titles.We can show appreciation for a game without going so far as to put the developer on a pedestal. We can give feedback, both positive and negative without trashing that game if it is an otherwise good game. We can even respect a developer, but respect is always earned. They need to prove they're worthy of it and making a game isn't enough. Respect and appreciation are two different things. We can be thankful, and appreciative, and not disrespectful all at the same time. But for a developer to truly earn our respect, that's for each individual among us to decide how that's best accomplished. As I've said, support and community interaction are my criteria. You may wonder why I don't include things like prompt updates, bug fixes, etc. Because that falls under both of those categories already. Plus, releasing code with bugs in it doesn't make a bad developer, or a bad person. Now, if the game is fairly well unplayable, then we need to talk to that person about how testing phases work. I also have a firm belief that a developer is not obligated to continue to work on or update a game until they die. Not even if I pay for it. When I see people speaking of this, and in a way that is insinuating that the developer is bad in some way or guilty of something if they don't do it, that to me screams entitlement. Again, appreciation, and thankfullness; I can be appreciative if a developer continues to work on their game even if I don't hold the expectation that they will continue forever. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421103/#p421103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition also @9 I can agree that when it's already been stated quite clearly and it just keeps coming up anyway... it becomes more of an rtfm situation where... dude, okay, it's already been said it was fixed, I recognise that this is a horrible idea already and I'm changing it for sure.Teacher: "5 + 10 is 15. Moving on-"Preston: "So what is 5+10?"Teacher: "It's 15. Anyway-"Jack: "So 5 + 10. I'm still having trouble with that one."Teacher: "it's... 15. As I said! Now on to-"Thom: "I thought we were going to go over number 1? How am I supposed to know what 5+10 is?"Ah!But that situation is rare. It's if things are actively being done to fix the situation, not if breakerbox comes back on and says "Hey hey, I know I haven't released my games yet and it's been 3 years and so many people have paid. I'll get to it, I'll get to it." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421101/#p421101 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Well first of all I didn't post this because one specific person.Also second of all... here's the thing. Pages and posts of people just sniping at one another, real honest to god drama - while that's expressing negative opinions, it's not what I was aiming at. That behavior is called fighting, and fighting helps nothing. I was aiming at... it's okay to get harsh and up front with your opinions, because you're not just some lowly blind subject that needs to keep his/her head down and only address the king with utmost praise or carefully worded objections of respect lest ye be burned alive and eaten; or worse... oh god... the king forsakes you. No! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421098/#p421098 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : MasterOfDeath via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Completely agreed with post 1. That's exactly what i always wanted to express somehow, ehm well, sometimes not in a polite way. But that's exactly the thing i had problems with, and always wanted to tell it in some ways. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421094/#p421094 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Meh, I don't think anyone's important! I'll jolly well do whatever I want and insult everyone because because and forget reason and you're all a bunch of... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421071/#p421071 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition This is very true. The opinion thing is pretty subjective, and most of the time having a negative opinion is totally fine - after all, we can't be positive all the time as it does no good for a developer as far as feedback is concerned, because they aren't hearing from the community anything to improve. For example, TK. I think Ivan said a thing or two about how it didn't really have much ideas for expansion so it hasn't been updated, and, in the midst of all the drama-fests Chris kindly stated some ideas which I do agree with with a game like this. And guess what, they're being considered. This actually made me pick up the game something I haven't done in all of its existence, because despite the drama surrounding it some of these games are actually really unique, and are being ruined by drama alone - not bad development. And in that case, let's also remember that it isn't a negative opinion and is more or less constructive criticism, as things should be.The only, and i mean only time I would say negative opinions become a problem are when a developer has stated in the beginning all the things they are being told are definitely on the list of things to do for the next version/episode, and yet people still go after them again and again and again. It's not so much the opinion that's harmful, more or less the aggravating minutes spent reading the topic to find, not much new feedback and more of the same old same old. That being a first impression could be unsettling. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421054/#p421054 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition As for the community being just as important as its developers: could not agree more. Lot of people place them on a stupidly high pedestal, forgetting that they're already doing such thing by continuing to play these games that come out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421055/#p421055 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Haramir via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Yeah, I agree with the majority of what's been said here. But it's worth remembering, independently of what our role in the society, comunity, group of friends, etc is, that there are different ways to express ourselves and some, even if you're right, would blow you away. As a basic rule, talk to people the same way you'd like people to talk to you.Best regards, Haramir. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421046/#p421046 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @post 6, the internet, never, forgets. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421040/#p421040 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : cmerry via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition @post4, wow. Omfg i'd completely forgotten about that topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421023/#p421023 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KG4RDF via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Steve, that was an awesome post and these are all things we would do well to remember. I'm sure all of us have said something unfavorable regarding the blind community and will in future, because those of us who aren't trolls don't understand how some people can be cruel for the sake of it. Also, try to ask yourself 'How would I feel if X were done to me?' before taking an action. Treat others how you want to be treated is all I'm saying because as Steve said, respect is a two-way street. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421012/#p421012 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition I think I'm at least somewhat in agreement, provided you keep it as well tempered as you have thus far. A bit of advice, if I may though, and see to it that history doesn't repeat itself. Those of us who have been mods and those who still are have said it before and we'll say it again; there's a fine line between voicing your opinions and wearing a trollface just because you can. I think you know the difference really well now, based on the first post. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421001/#p421001 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition I think I'm at least somewhat in agreement, provided you keep it as well tempered as you have thus far. A bit of advice, if I may though, and see to it that history doesn't repeat itself. Those of us who have been mods and those who still are have said it before and we'll say it again; there's a fine lin between voicing your opinions and wearing a trollface just because you can. I think you know the difference really well now, based on the first post. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421001/#p421001 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ogomez92 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Stevo, I like your post, and I agree with you. Confidence comes with success and that's earned by creating good content. Hek, I never would have imagined that people would create more than 400 packs for beatstar. And yes, oh shit is a huge success because even though it is simple, it is hard enough to keep you playing to see if you can get better scores. Scramble will tripple oh shit's popularity, I am sure.I always try to make good games, because people have shown me that they like my stuff. Rhythm Rage was something I never would have imagined, and that was possible because people liked my games. I've made mistakes in the past, hek we all keep making mistakes over and over.I believe we all can learn and grow, if we only learned to see things from the other perspective. I've often been quite blunt, especially with things I find inappropriate. Reflecting on it, I guess I could have said nicer things.Anyway good post and keep developing, your games are cool. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/420997/#p420997 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Unpopular Opinion, audio games edition. Note that this is all opinion of my own, not me telling everyone how it aught to be as though I actually have the right to do so.1. As an audio game developer, you are still someone providing a service or a product for consumers and or customers to enjoy. It may not be your full-time 9 to 5 until you're 65, but at least here, it's your nich... ya know? Til you quit if that happens anyways. All too often I hear especially from the less reputable developers, about the good thing they created and or the respect deserved, - and if the complainers don't like it, they should go off and create something better. Maybe it's just me, but if someone complains about my game, I want to listen and take heed, rather than condescending them. Plus, they didn't decide to create a game, I signed up for that. Hell, I ain't athletic. Maybe I can run to the refrigerator to grab a coke... but beyond that? Nah. I can however create a game. In the same way, the person complaining about my game can't create a game, but they sure can run 5 times faster and a whole lot greater distance than me. So why is it their job to do my job now while I sit there and snob at them for not doing what I apparently should be better at? Sounds like if my algebra professor were to look down his nose at me for failing and subsequently not believing in him, and him telling me I aught to go teach math. Oh Gawd, what a disaster that would be... *cringes. Heck, I've even heard some streamers say things like, "Go stream this thing better than me if you have a problem with it. Go develop a streaming personality, attract listeners, and do better at the game than me." Better than you, the one who has years of experience and thousands of fans? That's hardly fair.2. The blind community is still filled with human beings - and though we can't see like the rest of the world, we are in all ways similar to the rest of the world aside from our uncooperative eyeballs. Some of us like sushi but some, like me... fuckin' hate the stuff. I've never been shunned from a hibachi grill for stating that fact, especially since that's most definitely not all they do. It's perfectly fine, to any and all members of the community, to not except "leaders" who tell us how we aught to act, saying we should be more grateful for those people who put in time to make "awesome" things for us. Unless we're all x-convicts living on the streets, barely accepted back into society after the crimes we committed. And in that case, sorry - I forgot to bring canned soup, I brought cannons and rock throwers. Please, do forgive me. (And no, I'm not launching some passive attack on the forum admins. I'm talking about those people who say we should quit complaining, because "That's why no-one wants to develop for us anymore!"). Yes, we are a smaller community but everyone here is entitled to an opinion. And suppressing one opinion is almost more toxic than providing 1000 negative opinions. Those who make others feel bad for having negative opinions, as if they're the reason that we apparently don't have as many good developers any more, are I'd say honestly more toxic than the former.3. This is a community of hundreds, perhaps thousands of people. And while many of us are willing to lend support and a helping hand to those who need it, just because we're smaller and some believe this sets a rigid image standard upon us, it's not our job to except the garbage of those who don't feel adequate and are seeking self affirmation. "I'm so sick of that toxic blind community. They're just a bunch of good for nothing, self entitled, winers." Or, you have created an interesting concept, and you expect praise from us while on the other hand thinking it's okay to treat us however, because - oh, this is just the internet. Who cares? I think anyone can tell you that generally, respect is earned by respecting, and those you show very clearly that you value will be more receptive to you. In fact, to demean a whole community of people is perhaps one of the most blatently disrespectful and vial social actions one can take, and is borderline if not crossing borderline narcissistic. We are not toxic for not bowing down to that kind of behavior. It's kind of like having that friend who, every time they get mad at you, goes and hard core bashes you to all of their friends you're not friends with, thus giving you this horrible and toxic reputation to people who... honestly you can't defend yourself to.4. Is your "nice thing" all that nice? do you deserve all the respect you proudly proclaim you deserve, for "all the hard work I put into this?" Generally, if you're worthy of respect, it will be given you. On the internet more than ever, where the only way you can be known is to create an image of yourself and bring attention to it, respect is based on the
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : masonian via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Yes. Thumbs up to this, even though I've done exactly what he's talking about here and am probably why he posted it in the first place. But I've had a lot of time to think lately and he's right. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/420976/#p420976 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition
2019-03-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Unpopular Opinion: Audio Game Community Edition Unpopular Opinion, audio games edition. Note that this is all opinion of my own, not me telling everyone how it aught to be as though I actually have the right to do so.1. As an audio game developer, you are still someone providing a service or a product for consumers and or customers to enjoy. It may not be your full-time 9 to 5 until you're 65, but at least here, it's your nich... ya know? Til you quit if that happens anyways. All too often I hear especially from the less reputable developers, about the good thing they created and or the respect deserve, - and if the complainers don't like it, they should go off and create something better. Maybe it's just me, but if someone complains about my game, I want to listen and take heed, rather than condescending them. Plus, they didn't decide to create a game, I signed up for that. Hell, I ain't athletic. Maybe I can run to the refrigerator to grab a coke... but beyond that? Nah. I can however create a game. In the same way, the person complaining about my game can't create a game, but they sure can run 5 times faster and a whole lot greater distance than me. So why is it their job to do my job now while I sit there and snob at them for not doing what I apparently should be better at? Sounds like if my algebra professor were to look down his nose at me for failing and subsequently not believing in him, and him telling me I aught to go teach math. Oh Gawd, what a disaster that would be... *cringes. Heck, I've even heard some streamers say things like, "Go stream this thing better than me if you have a problem with it. Go develop a streaming personality, attract listeners, and do better at the game than me." Better than you, the one who has years of experience and thousands of fans? That's hardly fair.2. The blind community is still filled with human beings - and though we can't see like the rest of the world, we are in all ways similar to the rest of the world aside from our uncooperating eyeballs. Some of us like sushi but some, like me... fuckin' hate the stuff. I've never been shunned from a habachi grill for stating that fact, especially since that's most definitely not all they do. It's perfectly fine, to any and all members of the community, to not except "leaders" who tell us how we aught to act, saying we should be more grateful for those people who put in time to make "awesome" things for us. Unless we're all x-convicts living on the streets, barely accepted back into society after the crimes we committed. And in that case, sorry - I forgot to bring canned soup, I brought cannons and rock throwers. Please, do forgive me. (And no, I'm not launching some passive attack on the forum admins. I'm talking about those people who say we should quit complaining, because "That's why no-one wants to develop for us anymore!"). Yes, we are a smaller community but everyone here is entitled to an opinion. And suppressing one opinion is almost more toxic than providing 1000 negative opinions. Those who make others feel bad for having negative opinions, as if they're the reason that we apparently don't have as many good developers any more, are I'd say honestly more toxic than the former.3. This is a community of hundreds, perhaps thousands of people. And while many of us are willing to lend support and a helping hand to those who need it, just because we're smaller and some believe this sets a rigid image standard upon us, it's not our job to except the garbage of those who don't feel adequate and are seeking self affirmation. "I'm so sick of that toxic blind community. They're just a bunch of good for nothing, self entitled, winers." Or, you have created an interesting concept, and you expect praise from us while on the other hand thinking it's okay to treat us however, because - oh, this is just the internet. Who cares? I think anyone can tell you that generally, respect is earned by respecting, and those you show you value will be more receptive to you. In fact, to demean a whole community of people is perhaps one of the most blatently disrespectful and vial social actions one can take, and is borderlined if not crossing borderlined narcissistic. We are not toxic for not bowing down to that kind of behavior. It's kind of like having that friend who, every time they get mad at you, goes and hard core bashes you to all of their friends you're not friends with, thus giving you this horrible and toxic reputation to people who... honestly you can't defend yourself to.4. Is your "nice thing" all that nice? do you deserve all the respect you proudly proclaim you deserve, for "all the hard work I put into this?" Generally, if you're worthy of respect, it will be given you. On the internet more than ever, where the only way you can be known is to create an image of yourself and bring attention to it, respect is based on the way you treat people m
