Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @41, uh, no... I was agreeing with with your post -- post 39. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421820/#p421820 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @34You should have been able to get it off appveyor, but something seems to be wrong with the file, or files. That example pack includes all the 32 bit dll's from an earlier, working copy of Tolk I have. From the looks of it the developer switched to a different compiler and made changes to appveyor in early Febuary, methinks something hath gone sideways... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421805/#p421805 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... You say your own post is true? That's a totology? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421801/#p421801 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @40, true. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421798/#p421798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Even if it's a DLL, you need to consume the library, use their functions, classes, objects that is. You don't need to know the source behind it, but you at least need to know how to use it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421797/#p421797 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @37, I agree fully with you, but I'd like to add to your point about utilizing libraries that you don't need to understand (necessarily) all -- or even half -- of the language the library is written in to use it, especially if its a DLL or shared object. Granted, if its not, then your statement fully applies. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421787/#p421787 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @Rastislav Kiss, it I think you only know about OOP paradigm, correct? It's totally understandable, I mean it's often the only one that's taught and no doubt it's the most used paradigm. It has a lot of advantages, but it's always important to know strengths and weaknesses of something. You see, nothing is perfect ans so is OOP. Here's a very good article showing the weaknesses of OOP and while I do not necessarily agree with everything that guy is saying, it's very well written with solid arguments: https://medium.com/@cscalfani/goodbye-o … cda4c0e53.It's just to show you other opinions about OOP. I'm not saying OOP is bad, not at all, I'm saying that saying that OOP is one solution fits all is bad. It's just like saying plasters are good for all injuries. Sure, they will do great most of the time, but if you break an arm, you'll need something else. I'm sure you understand why people might prefer different languages and there is no harm if you say that you recommend OOP because of this and that, the problem is when you make it look like it's the only thing out there, please don't make the same mistakes as many teachers do.You also mixed two things which I don't really like: the way OP writes code and the libs OP must read, use and understand.Regarding how OP writes code is OP's business. When you start programming, you are not perfect the first time. You learn by making design mistakes, by realizing that the code you wrote is extremely painful to maintain, by realizing that if you knew you wanted this game feature in the first place, you should've structured the code in a different way. It's totally fine and as I said, the best code you can write for games is the one that makes your game progress the quickest.Then, there's the part where OP needs to use libs and understand how they work. And for that, you are indeed totally right. If OP uses OOP libs, which all of them are really, then yes, OP needs to understand classes, how they work and how to use them. You don't need OOP to write your own code, it's not necessary, but you need it to read and use third party code, no doubt of that. But the skill required to read code is very different than writing code. I can understand most languages I don't know by reading a few source files, but it doesn't mean I can write code in that language. Likewise, I can read lib documentation and get running very quickly, but it doesn't mean I would be able to write that lib myself as quickly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421766/#p421766 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @35, I'm having trouble understanding your post. You seem to be thinking that the OP should learn all of the concepts you want themto learn because they might want a GUI system. I significantly doubt that the OP will want a GUI system any time soon, and if they did want one, I'd be encouraging them to use a 3D GUI system that uses their home-made game engine architecture rather than using an external one that will lock up your game loop or cause unnecessary headache.You then go on to say that every project should use OOP. I don't know where your getting that idea, but its most definitely wrong and I doubt many people will listen to you if you keep spouting that. I have several books on F# that teach functional programming, which is *not OOP*. I know of several tutorials that teach Haskell, which is a purely functional language and has no OOP concepts anywhere in it. Leave peoples paradigm preferences alone and stop shoving OOP down peoples throats. And stop encouraging people to use MVC; it most likely wouldn't properly work with an audio game and its not a requirement to write good code -- because I've written C++ since 2014 and have used Python as well and have not once used MVC, MVP, MVVM, and so on in my code. When I tried, it never clicked with me.The thing is, everyone has their own ways of programming, their own ways of writing their code. There are those that might like C, or might like another procedural, non-oOP language. There are those who like functional programming; there are those who like other paradigms; there are those who will use MVC and friends for everything... but that does in no way mean that you should force your way of life at someone and expect them to listen to you after multiple people have told you off for it and no one in the topic thus far has agreed with you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421744/#p421744 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @35, I'm having trouble understanding your post. You seem to be thinking that the OP should learn all of the concepts you want themto learn because they might want a GUI system. I significantly doubt that the OP will want a GUI system any time soon, and if they did want one, I'd be encouraging them to use a 3D GUI system that uses their home-made game engine architecture rather than using an external one that will lock up your game loop or cause unnecessary headache.You then go on to say that every project should use OOP. I don't know where your getting that idea, but its most definitely wrong and I doubt many people will listen to you if you keep spouting that. I have several books on F# that teach functional programming, which is *not OOP*. I know of several tutorials that teach Haskell, which is a purely functional language and has no OOP concepts anywhere in it. Leave peoples paradigm preferences alone and stop shoving OOP down peoples throats. And stop encouraging people to use MVC; it most likely wouldn't properly work with an audio game and its not a requirement to write good code -- because I've written C++ since 2014 and have used Python as well and have not once used MVC, MVP, MVVM, and so on in my code. When I tried, it never clicked with me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421744/#p421744 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @35, I'm having trouble understanding your post. You seem to be thinking that the OP should learn all of the concepts you want themto learn because they might want a GUI system. I significantly doubt that the OP will want a GUI system any time soon, and if they did want one, I'd be encouraging them to use a 3D GUI system that uses their home-made game engine architecture rather than using an external one that will lock up your game loop or cause unnecessary headache.You then go on to say that every project should use OOP. I don't know where your getting that idea, but its most definitely wrong and I doubt many people will listen to you if you keep spouting that. I have several books on F# that teach functional programming, which is *not OOP*. I know of several tutorials that teach Haskell, which is a purely functional language and has no OOP concepts anywhere in it. Leave peoples paradigm preferences alone and stop shoving OOP down peoples throats. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421744/#p421744 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... I agree that game development is bit different from other systems, so selected software architecture depends much on what you want to do.@22: it depends if you understand not just how to make a class, but also why to make a class and how to deal with its structure.To let me explain why I'm saying that you need to know encapsulation and inheritance, there is one maior difference between those things and software architectures like mvc, mvvm, mvp, various patterns like statics, singletons, service locators etc.Encapsulation and inheritance is a native property of object oriented programming languages like python. Like variables or functions. You can code without knowing them and also get some results. But in that case you can't say that you know how python works, because you haven't covered all its features. inheritance for example is widely used in gui systems. If you want to code a form with WxPhoenix for example, first thing you need to do is to inherit from its WindowFrame class (not to be confused with windows of pygame or pyglet, they work bit differently).Also just by declaring a class you are inheriting from object class, although it is not visible.So understanding of oop is connected with understanding of language.On the other hand, there are software architectures and patterns. They have nothing to do with any programming language. They are just ways, how to use oop to make the most readable and most maintainable code. You can ignore them and still have no problems using python and understanding its libraries,. Of course if you know them, that can help you much especially in robust projects, they weren't developed just because someone was bored.But you can use every aspect of language even without knowing them.With that said, if you think you are confused when reading code using external libraries, the reason why you don't understand it may be because you are missing some language features and thus it would make sense that code seems more like a cypher to you than a code. So my advice is to learn what you can expect from the language, then go and study libraries, source codes, etc.of course exercising is required during the entire process, not on its end only, that's right. But in that case, if you study how to use libraries and so on, it is normal that you get confused at some points and there is no reason to be worried about it. @21: it makes sense that C++ compiler is written in C, because there was no C++ to write C++ in. But even if it was, how would you want to divide an algorithm, which's only task is to grab the code and translate it to machine code to objects? Compiler is object itself, like tons of dlls which are written in C.On the other hand, gui systems or any bigger apps, which can be divided to reasonable objects are not in C, but at least in C++. There are exceptions like Wordpress in this, but that's shame of developers and in most time cause of old roots.I have no time to write here examples why oop is important and why every application where it is possible should use it.But that is luckyly not needed, because someone already did so. This perfect course:https://www.ict.social/software-design/ … hitecturesIs primary targeted to di, but it covers all important software architectures including unstructured code and practical example why to avoid it. That's already in this first lesson, so if you want, you can study it and get some ideas from professionals, along with examples and proofs.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421697/#p421697 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... I agree that game development is bit different from other systems, so selected software architecture depends much on what you want to do.@22: it depends if you understand not just how to make a class, but also why to make a class and how to deal with its structure.To let me explain why I'm saying that you need to know encapsulation and inheritance, there is one maior difference between those things and software architectures like mvc, mvvm, mvp, various patterns like statics, singletons, service locators etc.Encapsulation and inheritance is a native property of object oriented programming languages like python. Like variables or functions. You can code without knowing them and also get some results. But in that case you can't say that you know how python works, because you haven't covered all its features. inheritance for example is widely used in gui systems. If you want to code a form with WxPhoenix for example, first thing you need to do is to inherit from its WindowFrame class (not to be confused with windows of pygame or pyglet, they work bit differently).Also just by declaring a class you are inheriting from object class, although it is not visible.So understanding of oop is connected with understanding of language.On the other hand, there are software architectures and patterns. They have nothing to do with any programming language. They are just ways, how to use oop to make the most readable and most maintainable code. You can ignore them and still have no problems using python and understanding its libraries,. Of course if you know them, that can help you much especially in robust projects, they weren't developed just because someone was bored.But you can use every aspect of language even without knowing them.with that said, if you think you are confused when reading code using external libraries, the reason why you don't understand it may be because you are missing some language features and thus it would make sense that code seems more like a cypher to you than a code. So my advice is to learn what you can expect from the language, then go and study libraries, source codes, etc.of course exercising is required during the entire process, not on its end only, that's right. But in that case, if you study how to use libraries and so on, it is normal that you get confused at some points and there is no reason to be worried about it. @21: it makes sense that C++ compiler is written in C, because there was no C++ to write C++ in. But even if it was, how would you want to divide an algorithm, which's only task is to grab the code and translate it to machine code to objects? Compiler is object itself, like tons of dlls which are written in C.On the other hand, gui systems or any bigger apps, which can be divided to reasonable objects are not in C, but at least in C++. There are exceptions like Wordpress in this, but that's shame of developers and in most time cause of old roots.I have no time to write here examples why oop is important and why every application where it is possible should use it.But that is luckyly not needed, because someone already did so. This perfect course:https://www.ict.social/software-design/ … hitecturesIs primary targeted to di, but it covers all important software architectures including unstructured code and practical example why to avoid it. That's already in this first lesson, so if you want, you can study it and get some ideas from professionals, along with examples and proofs.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421697/#p421697 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... wow magurp, it worked. what did you do? i can't understand how this works, i am using the 32 bit versions of the dll, and i am including all of them and even the python file... annoying. but thanks a lot. where can i get the working ones? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421664/#p421664 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Hm, well this is more annoying than it usually is. Alright try downloading a test file I put up in my repo awhile ago [here]. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421656/#p421656 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... Tolk does not work for me... i have the x86 and x64 in separate folders. i copy over the x86 dll's because i am using a 32 bit version of python3.6.5, and it tells me %1 is not a valid win32 application... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421652/#p421652 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @30The TolkDotNet.dll isn't the same as Tolk.dll, which the python wrapper is for, though both are in the download, or were as the case may be. When I try running scripts without the drivers in the same working directory I'd get no output, although maybe its the environment variables in my setup. Not sure how the .NET version handles, URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421635/#p421635 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @30The TolkDotNet.dll isn't the same as Tolk.dll, which the python wrapper is for, though both are in the download, or were as the case may be. When I try running scripts without the drivers in the same working directory I'd get no output, not sure how the .NET version handles. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421635/#p421635 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Alright. Let me join the fun jere.@5The only place where I see the MVC pattern useful is in web development, or possibly desktop softwares. With that said, I don't intend saying that it can't be used in games, but well, I believe it would be extremely painful to use so in a game. If you want to prove me wrong, please show me a practical example.@17OOP is a phylosophy. More over it's a preference. It's true that many people tend to use OOP these days but does that mean it is needed to write good code? No.Would your program still run well if you were to use procedural code? yes. Would it be good code? probably yes. ONly because you use OOP that does not mean that your code will not be good.The only languages where OOP is enforced that I know off are java and c#. With that said, saying that writing good code needs OOP is completely false.OOP is a new technique preferred these days, but there is still the minority who prefers procedural programming.It's like saying do you like pasta or spaghetti? Spaghetti are longer than pasta. Does that mean you will have a better meal if you eat them instead of eating pasta? Not at all. And I'm willing to prove it.The first search result of the following: "do games have to be created with MVC pattern?" is the followhttps://gamedev.stackexchange.com/quest … chitectureDraw your own conclusions.@19 that depends.Sorry, but I completely disagree.Remember that if in OOP you have inheritance, in on the other way you have recursion which can be used to extend and make the code look better. IN python's case we even have decorators, which are useful.With that said do I not respect your opinions? False. I do respect them, but I'd like to say that those you've put on the table are purely subjective. Again, if you want to prove me wrong, feel free to show a practical example.PS: Sorry for the possibly dickish tone I've used. I use OOP my self, but I don't think that is 100% required to write good code, even because you could reach spaghetti code even with OOP. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421631/#p421631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Alright. Let me join the fun jere.@5The only place where I see the MVC pattern useful is in web development, or possibly desktop softwares. With that said, I don't intend saying that it can't be used in games, but well, I believe it would be extremely painful to use so in a game. If you want to prove me wrong, please show me a practical example.@17OOP is a phylosophy. More over it's a preference. It's true that many people tend to use OOP these days but does that mean it is needed to write good code? No.Would your program still run well if you were to use procedural code? yes. Would it be good code? probably yes. ONly because you use OOP that does not mean that your code will not be good.The only languages where OOP is enforced that I know off are java and c#. With that said, saying that writing good code needs OOP is completely false.OOP is a new technique preferred these days, but there is still the minority who prefers procedural programming.It's like saying do you like pasta or spaghetti? Spaghetti are longer than pasta. Does that mean you will have a better meal if you eat them instead of eating pasta? Not at all. And I'm willing to prove it.The first search result of the following: "do games have to be created with MVC pattern?" is the followhttps://gamedev.stackexchange.com/quest … chitectureDraw your own conclusions.@19 that depends.Sorry, but I completely disagree.Remember that if in OOP you have inheritance, in on the other way you have recursion which can be used to extend and make the code look better. IN python's case we even have decorators, which are useful.With that said do I not respect your opinions? False. I do respect them, but I'd like to say that those you've put on the table are purely subjective. Again, if you want to prove me wrong, feel free to show a practical example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421631/#p421631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Alright. Let me join the fun jere.@5The only place where I see the MVC pattern useful is in web development, or possibly desktop softwares. With that said, I don't intend saying that it can't be used in games, but well, I believe it would be extremely painful to use so in a game. If you want to prove me wrong, please show me a practical example.@17OOP is a phylosophy. More over it's a preference. It's true that many people tend to use OOP these days but does that mean it is needed to write good code? No.Would your program still run well if you were to use procedural code? yes. Would it be good code? probably yes. ONly because you use OOP that does not mean that your code will not be good.The only languages where OOP is enforced that I know off are java and c#. With that said, saying that writing good code needs OOP is completely false.OOP is a new technique preferred these days, but there is still the minority who prefers procedural programming.It's like saying do you like pasta or spaghetti? Spaghetti are longer than pasta. Does that mean you will have a better meal if you eat them instead of eating pasta? Not at all. And I'm willing to prove it.The first search result of the following: "do games have to be created with MVC pattern?" is the followDraw your own conclusions.@19 that depends.Sorry, but I completely disagree.Remember that if in OOP you have inheritance, in on the other way you have recursion which can be used to extend and make the code look better. IN python's case we even have decorators, which are useful.With that said do I not respect your opinions? False. I do respect them, but I'd like to say that those you've put on the table are purely subjective. Again, if you want to prove me wrong, feel free to show a practical example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421631/#p421631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Alright. Let me join the fun jere.@5The only place where I see the MVC pattern useful is in web development, or possibly desktop softwares. With that said, I don't intend saying that it can't be used in games, but well, I believe it would be extremely painful to use so in a game. If you want to prove me wrong, please show me a practical example.@17OOP is a phylosophy. More over it's a preference. It's true that many people tend to use OOP these days but does that mean it is needed to write good code? No.Would your program still run well if you were to use procedural code? yes. Would it be good code? probably yes. ONly because you use OOP that does not mean that your code will not be good.The only languages where OOP is enforced that I know off are java and c#. With that said, saying that writing good code needs OOP is completely false.OOP is a new technique preferred these days, but there is still the minority who prefers procedural programming.It's like saying do you like pasta or spaghetti? Spaghetti are longer than pasta. Does that mean you will have a better meal if you eat them instead of eating pasta? Not at all. And I'm willing to prove it.The first search result of the following: "do games have to be created with MVC pattern? - Cerca con Google - Mozilla Firefox" is the followDraw your own conclusions.@19 that depends.Sorry, but I completely disagree.Remember that if in OOP you have inheritance, in on the other way you have recursion which can be used to extend and make the code look better. IN python's case we even have decorators, which are useful.With that said do I not respect your opinions? False. I do respect them, but I'd like to say that those you've put on the table are purely subjective. Again, if you want to prove me wrong, feel free to show a practical example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421631/#p421631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Are you sure you need the DLLs for screen-readers? I don't know the python version, but the C# one I used detected them automatically on my computer in their default locations. I used Tolk .NET, perhaps it was wrapped? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421623/#p421623 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Wait, what? Seems theres something wrong with the latest Tolk build, hm. Also Kind of didn't mention you also needed the screen reader drivers, heh. Anyway, download the appveyor file and go into x86, copy Tolk.dll, dolapi32.dll, nvdacontrollerclient32.dll, and saapi32.dll to your working directory. Next in the github version go into the /src/python directory and copy over Tolk.py, that should get you what you need. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421618/#p421618 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @24, for completeness, MVC is part of the MV* program architecture family. There is MVC, but also MVP, MVVM, they are all different flavors of the same core concept: decoupling the UI from the logic. They are well suited for cross platform UIs and big apps that need to scale.Now these are just architecture types, there are a bunch of them, each with their advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I think the MV* family is a bit overkill for small projects, especially if it's an audio game with no UI. Developing a game is very different than developing something else, I've seen it when I worked in the game industry. The philosophy is you make a game, not a system. If you're writing code that does not make the game progress, then stop doing what you are doing and write code for the game. Except for small utilities like wrappers for input / output and libs, you will not reuse any code. This is the main difference, you have to maintain an app, whereas you patch a game which is basically throwable code as soon as it's released. When you develop a game, write specific code, don't write generic code, it's time wasted most of the time. You can always come back later to generalize code if it is required for the game.I think that makes sense for the most part. A game is a product, an app is a service. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421617/#p421617 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... How ever, i don't have the src directory at all... from whitch i can grab the python file... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421613/#p421613 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... Hi, @23, i got it off github. but i will get it from apvaya, or that link you sent. thanks a lot once again URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421611/#p421611 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... I'm guessing the acronym stands for [Model View Controller]. Its a kind of programming architecture wherein you break it into 3 components, the controller that the users interfaces with, which in turn manipulates the model, which could be a database or whatever, and then the model updates the view for the user. As an example, you could have a class that takes keyboard input, it passes that to a model class that say, moves the player around on a map, and then passes those changes to a third class that draws it all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421608/#p421608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Hi,What is MVC? can somebody provide a small example which uses this concept?Regards,Amit URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421607/#p421607 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Tolk is regularly updated yes, but accessible_output2 isn't, and like sound_lib its a niche library with little documentation. It's main advantage is cross platform support, Tolk is windows only, but that may not be that relevant right now. Also be sure to get Tolk off appveyor [here] and not the github. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421606/#p421606 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... So @17, if i understand what a class is, and it's methods and propperties are, i still can't code?and thanks a lot all, it helped me.I feel motivated right now, and i am for sure going to start smaller, because my ideas were to big. i am going to start with the basicsI already have pygame installed, as it looks easier.Just a question regarding speech output:Do i need to use talk?is it still up dated?what is the difference between accessible output2 and talk?thanks a lot all once again. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421603/#p421603 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @19, your post doesn't even make sense. I cannot fathom where you got the idea that if someone doesn't use OOP their program will die or fail sometime in the future. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read. GCC is written in C, and various other languages, including C++, but most of which are non-object oriented languages, and its still going strong. The linux kernel is wrotten in C and assembly, no C++ anywhere, and its been going strong since 1991. You know what's even more ironic? GCC started out in C, and was released in 1987, and its been going strong for the past thirty-one years. The entire POSIX interface is C, and its going strong. Most of the tools you use in your everyday computing life (especially those in the command line) are written in C. The "most" is about 30-50 percent, at least. So I really, really don't understand where you got the absurd idea that if someone doesn't use OOP, their program will die. What about functional programming? How about imperative, declarative, structured, function-level, logic/rule-based, constraint, aspect-oriented, and reflective programming? What about all the other programming paradigms that I haven't listed?Alas, I digress. And that part of "advanced memory management"? You do realize that most professional programming books (including my favorite) tells you -- more than once, too -- to use the STL to manage memory, and to avoid manual memory allocation if possible? I can think of only a few cases where I've ever had to manually allocate memory, and all of those involved interacting with C libraries (and there are probably ways that I could do it with the STL but I couldn't think of a way to do it with the STL at the time, or couldn't find a way). My favorite book, professional C++, states (as a warning), in regards to memory management...In modern C++ you should avoid low-level memory operations as much as possible in favor of modern constructs such as containers and smart pointers!And this, as a warning, too...It is strongly recommended to use smart pointers as often as possible to avoid memory leaks.So yep, there you go, the words of Marc Gregoire, right out of the book. Of course there are those times where you have to use new/delete, but those times (for me, anyway) are rare and far between. So, I still say that someone who is new to C++ does *not* need to know much, if anything at all, about the low-level methods of allocating memory with new/delete. And definitely not the OP, since the OP never was even asking about memory management or C++ at all. So, can we stop derailing this topic with the useless nonsense I just proved as useless nonsense and get back on track with helping the OP? I doubt this little side discussion is encouraging for anyone who wants to learn C++. And please, Rastislav Kiss, stop forcing your (very!) subjective opinions on people and telling people "oh, you have to learn these 30-80 concepts before you can do x and y". URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421542/#p421542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @19, your post doesn't even make sense. I cannot fathom where you got the idea that if someone doesn't use OOP their program will die or fail sometime in the future. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read. GCC is written in C, and various other languages, including C++, but most of which are non-object oriented languages, and its still going strong. The linux kernel is wrotten in C and assembly, no C++ anywhere, and its been going strong since 1991. You know what's even more ironic? GCC started out in C, and was released in 1987, and its been going strong for the past thirty-one years. The entire POSIX interface is C, and its going strong. Most of the tools you use in your everyday computing life (especially those in the command line) are written in C. The "most" is about 30-50 percent, at least. So I really, really don't understand where you got the absurd idea that if someone doesn't use OOP, their program will die. What about functional programming? How about imperative, declarative, structured, function-level, logic/rule-based, constraint, aspect-oriented, and reflective programming? What about all the other programming paradigms that I haven't listed?Alas, I digress. And that part of "advanced memory management"? You do realize that most professional programming books (including my favorite) tells you -- more than once, too -- to use the STL to manage memory, and to avoid manual memory allocation if possible? I can think of only a few cases where I've ever had to manually allocate memory, and all of those involved interacting with C libraries (and there are probably ways that I could do it with the STL but I couldn't think of a way to do it with the STL at the time, or couldn't find a way). My favorite book, professional C++, states (as a warning), in regards to memory management...In modern C++ you should avoid low-level memory operations as much as possible in favor of modern constructs such as containers and smart pointers!And this, as a warning, too...It is strongly recommended to use smart pointers as often as possible to avoid memory leaks.So yep, there you go, the words of Marc Gregoire, right out of the book. Of course there are those times where you have to use new/delete, but those times (for me, anyway) are rare and far between. So, I still say that someone who is new to C++ does *not* need to know much, if anything at all, about the low-level methods of allocating memory with new/delete. And definitely not the OP, since the OP never was even asking about memory management or C++ at all. So, can we stop derailing this topic with the useless nonsense I just proved as useless nonsense and get back on track with helping the OP? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421542/#p421542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @19, your post doesn't even make sense. I cannot fathom where you got the idea that if someone doesn't use OOP their program will die or fail sometime in the future. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read. GCC is written in C, and various other languages, including C++, but most of which are non-object oriented languages, and its still going strong. The linux kernel is wrotten in C and assembly, no C++ anywhere, and its been going strong since 1991. You know what's even more ironic? GCC started out in C, and was released in 1987, and its been going strong for the past thirty-one years. The entire POSIX interface is C, and its going strong. Most of the tools you use in your everyday computing life (especially those in the command line) are written in C. The "most" is about 30-50 percent, at least. So I really, really don't understand where you got the absurd idea that if someone doesn't use OOP, their program will die. What about functional programming? How about imperative, declarative, structured, function-level, logic/rule-based, constraint, aspect-oriented, and reflective programming? What about all the other programming paradigms that I haven't listed?Alas, I digress. And that part of "advanced memory management"? You do realize that most professional programming books (including my favorite) tells you -- more than once, too -- to use the STL to manage memory, and to avoid manual memory allocation if possible? I can think of only a few cases where I've ever had to manually allocate memory, and all of those involved interacting with C libraries (and there are probably ways that I could do it with the STL but I couldn't think of a way to do it with the STL at the time, or couldn't find a way). My favorite book, professional C++, states (as a warning), in regards to memory management...In modern C++ you should avoid low-level memory operations as much as possible in favor of modern constructs such as containers and smart pointers!And this, as a warning, too...It is strongly recommended to use smart pointers as often as possible to avoid memory leaks.So yep, there you go, the words of Marc Gregoire, right out of the book. Of course there are those times where you have to use new/delete, but those times (for me, anyway) are rare and far between. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421542/#p421542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @19, your post doesn't even make sense. I cannot fathom where you got the idea that if someone doesn't use OOP their program will die or fail sometime in the future. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read. GCC is written in C, and various other languages, including C++, but most of which are non-object oriented languages, and its still going strong. The linux kernel is wrotten in C and assembly, no C++ anywhere, and its been going strong since 1991. You know what's even more ironic? GCC started out in C, and was released in 1987, and its been going strong for the past thirty-one years. The entire POSIX interface is C, and its going strong. Most of the tools you use in your everyday computing life (especially those in the command line) are written in C. The "most" is about 30-50 percent, at least. So I really, really don't understand where you got the absurd idea that if someone doesn't use OOP, their program will die. What about functional programming? How about imperative, declarative, structured, function-level, logic/rule-based, constraint, aspect-oriented, and reflective programming? What about all the other programming paradigms that I haven't listed?Alas, I digress. And that part of "advanced memory management"? You do realize that most professional programming books (including my favorite) tells you -- more than once, too -- to use the STL to manage memory, and to avoid manual memory allocation if possible? I can think of only a few cases where I've ever had to manually allocate memory, and all of those involved interacting with C libraries (and there are probably ways that I could do it with the STL but I couldn't think of a way to do it with the STL at the time, or couldn't find a way). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421542/#p421542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @17 your posts are very subjective, you're saying what you think is best, and just because you think it is best does not make it so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421522/#p421522 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... @18: basic question, what do you call a good code?If you understand under this term a code which will do its job, then yes, you are true. All programs are in the final phase translated to machine code, where processor doesn't know anything about oop, but will do its job.if you are talking about readable and extendable code, then nope, this really can't be achieved without oop. Sooner or later you will face spaghetti code and global variables, what is beginning of the end and your source code will die, sooner or later.Multiple inheritance is controversial theme, because it causes some philosophical problems and also some practical.Interfaces are better solution for this. bit harder theme in python, but can be achieved, however it is true that it's not that widely used and beginners can ignore it.But not the inheritance. It has some critical methods which you need to know, otherwise you can be very surprised at some points.For example, how to override Equals method or GetHashCode, which are important when you want to compare your objects in different way than using their references.Also objects copying is standardized in Python and requires inheriting certain methods to work. this isn't case of C++, which copies objects automatically, but in Python, C#, Dart and all other managed languages which I know excepting BGT, you must do this yourself.Also it isn't a big surprise to me that oop has later chapters in a C++ book. For example, on itnetwork, tutorials are normally divided to basics of certain language, object oriented programming, work with files, multithreading etc. OOP goes immediately after basics. If we count lessons, it is somewhere in 14th place, with things like variables, conditions, functions, arrays, multidimensional arrays etc. before.Then goes oop with all its principles. The most important encapsulation, then the rest of principles and other important things.But in case of C++, there is one more tutorial between basics and oop, called Advanced constructions of C++. it has 17 chapters targeted to advanced memory management. That's it, in C++, there are lot of things you need to know before you can dive into oop, so it makes sense it is in higher chapters.I think in a book about a managed language, situation would be bit different.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421519/#p421519 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... @18: basic question, what do you call a good code?If you understand under this term a code which will do its job, then yes, you are true. All programs are in the final phase translated to machine code, where processor doesn't know anything about oop, but will do its job.if you are talking about readable and extendable code, then nope, this really can't be achieved without oop. Sooner or later you will face spaghetti code and global variables, what is beginning of the end and your source code will die, sooner or later.Multiple inheritance is controversial theme, because it causes some philosophical problems and also some practical.Interfaces are better solution for this. bit harder theme in python, but can be achieved, however it is true that it's not that widely used and beginners can ignore it.But not the inheritance. It has some critical methods which you need to know, otherwise you can be very surprised at some point.For example, how to override Equals method or GetHashCode, which are important when you want to compare your objects in different way than using their references.Also objects copying is standardized in Python and requires inheriting certain methods to work. this isn't case of C++, which copies objects automatically, but in Python, C#, Dart and all other managed languages which I know excepting BGT, you must do this yourself.Also it isn't a big surprise to me that oop has later chapters in a C++ book. For example, on itnetwork, tutorials are normally divided to basics of certain language, object oriented programming, work with files, multithreading etc. OOP goes immediately after basics. If we count lessons, it is somewhere in 14th place, with things like variables, conditions, functions, arrays, multidimensional arrays etc. before.Then goes oop with all its principles. The most important encapsulation, then the rest of principles and other important things.But in case of C++, there is one more tutorial between basics and oop, called Advanced constructions of C++. it has 17 chapters targeted to advanced memory management. That's it, in C++, there are lot of things you need to know before you can dive into oop, so it makes sense it is in higher chapters.I think in a book about a managed language, situation would be bit different.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421519/#p421519 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... @18: basic question, what do you call a good code?If you understand under this term a code which will do its job, then yes, you are true. All programs are in the final phase translated to machine code, where processor doesn't know anything about oop, but will do its job.if you are talking about readable and extendable code, then nope, this really can't be achieved without oop. Sooner or later you will face spaghetti code and global variables, what is beginning of the end and your source code will die, sooner or later.Multiple inheritance is controversial theme, because it causes some philosophical problems and also some practical.Interfaces are better solution for this. bit harder theme in python, but can be achieved, however it is true that it's not that widely used and beginners can ignore it.But not the inheritance. It has some critical methods which you need to know, otherwise you can be very surprised at some point.For example, how to override Equals method or GetHashCode, which are important when you want to compare your objects in different way than using their referencies.Also objects copying is standardized in Python and requires inheriting certain methods to work. this isn't case of C++, which copies objects automatically, but in Python, C#, Dart and all other managed languages which I know excepting BGT, you must do this yourself.Also it isn't a big surprise to me that oop has later chapters in a C++ book. For example, on itnetwork, tutorials are normally divided to basics of certain language, object oriented programming, work with files, multithreading etc. OOP goes immediately after basics. If we count lessons, it is somewhere in 14th place, with things like variables, conditions, functions, arrays, multidimensional arrays etc. before.Then goes oop with all its principles. The most important encapsulation, then the rest of principles and other important things.But in case of C++, there is one more tutorial between basics and oop, called Advanced constructions of C++. it has 17 chapters targeted to advanced memory management. That's it, in C++, there are lot of things you need to know before you can dive into oop, so it makes sense it is in higher chapters.I think in a book about a managed language, situation will be bit different.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421519/#p421519 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @17, OOP is a philosophy, yes, but it is also a way of coding. You do not need to know all about enumerators and MVC to write good code. You don't need to know about multiple inheritance to write good OOP code. Abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism... yes, you should know about these and how they work, but again, you don't need to know them to write good code. It makes your life a lot easier if you do understand those concepts, but they are not essential. The C++ programming language book, for example, doesn't teach polymorphism or encapsulation until chapter 20 of the book, touches only briefly on abstraction in chapter 3 (and doesn't go into depth until part 3 of the book, which is chapters 16-29), and doesn't get into inheritance until chapters 11-13. Someone could happily write C++ (or any other object-oriented-based language) without knowing the concepts and be fine, until they started utilizing these concepts for things like (as you said) a GUI loop. But a beginner who is just starting on their way to game development doesn't need to learn all of this before starting a game development project. That kind of stuff can be learnt along the way. Is it better if they jump in knowing it? Yes, but I will also argue that it creates a chain reaction, because if you go learning about polymorphism or abstraction, your pulled into learning other concepts and so on and so forth. If someone wants to start a game project in (what to us might be poor ways of coding, or methods that are superseded by better methodologies), let them; as they learn the language, and as they go through the process, they will either pick up these concepts along the way by force (if the compiler bitches about it) or by asking around. And after they do that, they can learn refactoring, and make their code more OOP-like. But they need to start somewhere, and its most likely better if they start small (and not read into a lot about the language) and use what they know instead of having people shove concepts down their throat such that they can't actually get anything done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421516/#p421516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @17, OOP is a philosophy, yes, but it is also a way of coding. You do not need to know all about enumerators and MVC to write good code. You don't need to know about multiple inheritance to write good OOP code. Abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism... yes, you should know about these and how they work, but again, you don't need to know them to write good code. It makes your life a lot easier if you do understand those concepts, but they are not essential. The C++ programming language book, for example, doesn't teach polymorphism or encapsulation until chapter 20 of the book, touches only briefly on abstraction in chapter 3 (and doesn't go into depth until part 3 of the book, which is chapters 16-29), and doesn't get into inheritance until chapters 11-13. Someone could happily write C++ (or any other object-oriented-based language) without knowing the concepts and be fine, until they started utilizing these concepts for things like (as you said) a GUI loop. But a beginner who is just starting on their way to game development doesn't need to learn all of this before starting a game development project. That kind of stuff can be learnt along the way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421516/#p421516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @17, OOP is a philosophy, yes, but it is also a way of coding. You do not need to know all about enumerators and MVC to write good code. You don't need to know about multiple inheritance to write good OOP code. Abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism... yes, you should know about these and how they work, but again, you don't need to know them to write good code. It makes your life a lot easier if you do understand those concepts, but they are not essential. The C++ programming language doesn't teach polymorphism or encapsulation until chapter 20 of the book, touches only briefly on abstraction in chapter 3 (and doesn't go into depth until part 3 of the book, which is chapters 16-29), and doesn't get into inheritance until chapters 11-13. Someone could happily write C++ (or any other object-oriented-based language) without knowing the concepts and be fine, until they started utilizing these concepts for things like (as you said) a GUI loop. But a beginner who is just starting on their way to game development doesn't need to learn all of this before starting a game development project. That kind of stuff can be learnt along the way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421516/#p421516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @17, I don't know what planet you live on but that is *not* how OOP works at all. OOP is a philosophy, yes, but it is also a way of coding. You do not need to know all about enumerators and MVC to write good code. You don't need to know about multiple inheritance to write good OOP code. Abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism... yes, you should know about these and how they work, but again, you don't need to know them to write good code. It makes your life a lot easier if you do understand those concepts, but they are not essential. The C++ programming language doesn't teach polymorphism or encapsulation until chapter 20 of the book, touches only briefly on abstraction in chapter 3 (and doesn't go into depth until part 3 of the book, which is chapters 16-29), and doesn't get into inheritance until chapters 11-13. Someone could happily write C++ (or any other object-oriented-based language) without knowing the concepts and be fine, until they started utilizing these concepts for things like (as you said) a GUI loop. But a beginner who is just starting on their way to game development doesn't need to learn all of this before starting a game development project. That kind of stuff can be learnt along the way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421516/#p421516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... @15: I wouldn't say. OOP isn't utility only, which you use for certain types of code, oop is a general philosophy, completely different insight to program and it's code. If you don't understand its four basics which I have listed, then you don't understand oop and can't write any reasonable code.Plus you wouldn't even be able to understand basic libraries like gui libraries, all of them from those more popular use oop with every its aspect.Also regarding mvc, just a fact that developers don't know or are lazy to use proper coding techniques, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be used.Every application for normal use from web to desktop and mobile devices should contain AT LEAST two layers - controller and model, view is useful especially when you need some more complex output which is too robust to be implemented in controller directly.This applies also for games, just search mvc in games with Google and you can get some ideas how to go on.Of course it is possible to write a game without mvc. but the code is then very unreadable, because there is no object structure in your code and adding anything is horribly unefficient, because you first need to search million places, where you need to make changes.But this isn't important for beginner, that's true. That's the reason why I said it just to prevent headaches. OOP techniques are necessary, because you need to understand program in other way, way of objects, which is more natural to humans. of course you need to have basics before it, that's no doubt, but from post 1 I guess those were already mastered, so it is time to move forward and learn what is programming really about.it isn't that hard. With a great article like thisone:https://www.ict.social/csharp/oop/intro … csharp-netwhich is wrote for beginners, everyone can understand what is oop and why it is that important. Plus oop is more natural to us as I already mentioned, so i don't see any reason why beginner who already mastered basics should ignore it.Especially in that strongly structured and object oriented language like python. if you don't understand objects, then you don't understand how python works, so how do you want to understand a library wrote in python?This seems much more irrational to me than avoiding oop, because of what?But of course, final decision is on programmer. He wrote, that he has problem understanding the language, what doesn't surprise me much, when I take in fact, that he has mastered already about a half only from its potential.Another thing are learning resources. It might be worth checking, if his resources are teaching him correctly.Itnetwork for example is a platform, where authors are publishing tutorials about programming languages and techniques, so people can learn programming and immediately work from there, it is a project to help the market in Czech republics by teaching new programmers. Nearly all articles are wrote by highly experienced experts who really work in industry and business, so they have high quality and things like oop or mvc are normal, because those are only way to write readable code. And in business, where you need to have 100% working code which you must be able to update in short time, you need a very readable code and object architecture, otherwise competitors will overrun your company and you will lose your work. Sadly many articles on internet has no such quality, so there are many developers often with very strange techniques, what isn't fully their fault, because they have had no way to check if their resources were teaching them correct things or nonsenses.For example, some html tutorials can teach you something like this:This is a headingWhat is ehm... bleah. I have read one tutorial teaching like this and now, when I know, how it should be really done, I see, that the tutorial was not only comfusing, but totally missed what html is and why it were invented. But in that time, i thought that it is okay, because I had no skills to see how strange it is.Anyway, @ashleygrobler04: regardless of which way you choose, i wish you good luck and right practices in your toolbox, just in that case programming can be really funny and enjoyable. Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421514/#p421514 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @17, I don't know what planet you live on but that is *not* how OOP works at all. OOP is a philosophy, yes, but it is also a way of coding. You do not need to know all about enumerators and MVC to write good code. You don't need to know about multiple inheritance to write good OOP code. Abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism... yes, you should know about these and how they work, but again, you don't need to know them to write good code. It makes your life a lot easier if you do understand those concepts, but they are not essential. The C++ programming language doesn't teach polymorphism or encapsulation until chapter 20 of the book, touches only briefly on abstraction in chapter 3 (and doesn't go into depth until part 3 of the book, which is chapters 16-29), and doesn't get into inheritance until chapter 13. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421516/#p421516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... @15: I wouldn't say. OOP isn't utility only, which you use for certain types of code, oop is a general philosophy, completely different insight to program and it's code. If you don't understand its four basics which I have listed, then you don't understand oop and can't write any reasonable code.Plus you wouldn't even be able to understand basic libraries like gui libraries, all of them from those more popular use oop with every its aspect.Also regarding mvc, just a fact that developers don't know or are lazy to use proper coding techniques, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be used.Every application for normal use from web to desktop and mobile devices should contain AT LEAST two layers - controller and model, view is useful especially when you need some more complex output which is too robust to be implemented in controller directly.This applies also for games, just search mvc in games with Google and you can get some ideas how to go on.Of course it is possible to write a game without mvc. but the code is then very unreadable, because there is no object structure in your code and adding anything is horribly unefficient, because you first need to search million places, where you need to make changes.But this isn't important for beginner, that's true. That's the reason why I said it just to prevent headaches. OOP techniques are necessary, because you need to understand program in other way, way of objects, which is more natural to humans. of course you need to have basics before it, that's no doubt, but from post 1 I guess those were already mastered, so it is time to move forward and learn what is programming really about.it isn't that hard. With a great article like thisone:https://www.ict.social/csharp/oop/intro … csharp-netwhich is wrote for beginners, everyone can understand what is oop and why it is that important. Plus oop is more natural to us as I already mentioned, so i don't see any reason why beginner who already mastered basics should ignore it.Especially in that strongly structured and object oriented language like python. if you don't understand objects, then you don't understand how python works, so how do you want to understand a library wrote in python?This seems much more irrational to me than avoiding oop, because of what?But of course, final decision is on programmer. He wrote, that he has problem understanding the language, what doesn't surprise me much, when I take in fact, that he has mastered already about a half only from its potential.Another thing are learning resources. It might be worth checking, if his resources are teaching him correctly.Itnetwork for example is a platform, where authors are publishing tutorials about programming languages and techniques, so people can learn programming and immediately work from there, it is a project to help the market in Czech republics by teaching new programmers. Nearly all articles are wrote by high experienced experts who really work in industry and business, so they have high quality and things like oop or mvc are normal, because those are only way to write readable code. And in business, where you need to have 100% working code which you must be able to update in short time, you need a very readable code and object architecture, otherwise competitors will overrun your company and you will lose your work. Sadly many articles on internet has no such quality, so there are many developers often with very strange techniques, what isn't fully their fault, because they have had no way to check if their resources were teaching them correct things or nonsenses.For example, some html tutorials can teach you something like this:This is a headingWhat is ehm... bleah. I have read one tutorial teaching like this and now, when I know, how it should be really done, I see, that the tutorial was not only comfusing, but totally missed what html is and why it were invented. But in that time, i thought that it is okay, because I had no skills to see how strange it is.Anyway, @ashleygrobler04: regardless of which way you choose, i wish you good luck and right practices in your toolbox, just in that case programming can be really funny and enjoyable. Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421514/#p421514 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more...
With Tolk, you'll need the DLL from the bin/x64 or bin/x86 directories, then grab the Tolk.py script from src/python and put the DLL and script in your working directory.import pygame
import sys
import Tolk
def Example():
#initialize pygame
pygame.init()
#initialize Tolk
Tolk.load()
#create display
window = pygame.display.set_mode([640,480])
#main update loop
while True:
for event in pygame.event.get():
if event.type == pygame.KEYDOWN:
#if space is pressed, speak TTS
if event.key == pygame.K_SPACE:
Tolk.output("Hello World!")
#if escape is pressed, quit
if event.key == pygame.K_ESCAPE:
Tolk.unload()
pygame.quit()
sys.exit(0)
#update window
pygame.display.update()
Example()Oh, and if you don't already have pygame installed, you can do so on the command line with "pip install pygame".
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421497/#p421497
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Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Agreed MVC is more suited for business logic apps than games URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421507/#p421507 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... If you want to develop a project and you have big ideas, always start small. Don't jump into adding things that sound epic right away -- your project will stall because you'll keep adding things that are (at that time) useless. I suffer this problem myself and believe me, the urge is hard to resist.You want a game engine? Start small:* learn how to open a simple window* learn how to load sounds* learn how to get those sounds to play (one sound to start with)* learn how to get said sound to loop continuously* learn how to take keyboard inputAnd so on, and so forth. Don't start at the physics layer or the low-level mathematics layer. That's akin to you starting from the roof of a house and building from the top to the bottom -- it just wouldn't work. Or starting from the walls instead of the foundation. You could probably do it, but it would take you a ridiculously long time.@5, most of the concepts you specified are entirely unnecessary for a beginner. MVC in particular is an unnecessary layer for most projects. I've only seen that majorly in use in web applications; I've never seen a game employ it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421504/#p421504 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... If you want to develop a project and you have big ideas, always start small. Don't jump into adding things that sound epic right away -- your project will stall because you'll keep adding things that are (at that time) useless. I suffer this problem myself and believe me, the urge is hard to resist.You want a game engine? Start small:* learn how to open a simple window* learn how to load sounds* learn how to get those sounds to play (one sound to start with)* learn how to get said sound to loop continuously* learn how to take keyboard inputAnd so on, and so forth. Don't start at the physics layer or the low-level mathematics layer. That's akin to you starting from the roof of a house and building from the top to the bottom -- it just wouldn't work. Or starting from the walls instead of the foundation. You could probably do it, but it would take you a ridiculously long time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421504/#p421504 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... @12, true, but I assumed OP wanted to code, it's written in post 1 "I really want to develop". There's a but afterwards, but it seemed to be cause of blockers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421502/#p421502 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more...
With Tolk, you'll need the DLL from the bin/x64 or bin/x86 directories, then grab the Tolk.py script from src/python and put the DLL and script in your working directory.import pygame
import sys
import Tolk
def Example():
#initialize pygame
pygame.init()
#initialize Tolk
Tolk.load()
#create display
window = pygame.display.set_mode([640,480])
#main update loop
while True:
for event in pygame.event.get():
if event.type == pygame.KEYDOWN:
#if space is pressed, speak TTS
if event.key == pygame.K_SPACE:
Tolk.output("Hello World!")
#if escape is pressed, quit
if event.key == pygame.K_ESCAPE:
Tolk.unload()
pygame.quit()
sys.exit(0)
#update window
pygame.display.update()
Example()
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421497/#p421497
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Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more...
With Tolk, you'll need the DLL from the bin/x64 or bin/x86 directories, then grab the Tolk.py script from src/python and put the DLL and script in your working directory.import pygame
from pygame import mixer
import sys
import Tolk
def Example():
#initialize pygame
pygame.init()
#initialize Tolk
Tolk.load()
#create display
window = pygame.display.set_mode([640,480])
#main update loop
while True:
for event in pygame.event.get():
if event.type == pygame.KEYDOWN:
#if space is pressed, speak TTS
if event.key == pygame.K_SPACE:
Tolk.output("Hello World!")
#if escape is pressed, quit
if event.key == pygame.K_ESCAPE:
Tolk.unload()
pygame.quit()
sys.exit(0)
#update window
pygame.display.update()
Example()
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421497/#p421497
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Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Coding is hard, it's exacting and unforgiving and not for everyone. There's this weird paradigm that in this community, you have to start coding games around age 13, I don't understand this at all, but I've seen it so much. Only do it if it's fun for you, if it isn't, then it's not worth it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421496/#p421496 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Oh and do the pygame lib tutorials, read the documentation when you want to do something, don't just go about reading all of it before starting, read it as you practice, read only what you need to know. It'll sink in, don't worry. Your first projects will be crap, but they will work, you'll get better and better as you go onward. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421482/#p421482 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... The best advice I can tell you is to start a project, a small one, just to play with pygame lib. First, make the code in post 9 work. This is important, because it will tell you that you have every thing setup correctly. Then try to modify his code sample to let you select sounds with arrow keys and play them. Then try to make space a toggle so that it doesn't only do play, but play/pause. Then try to make it that when you play another sound, if another one is already playing, it will make it stop. You'll see that every of those new things you add will make you learn new stuff and basically how with small lego blocks you can make it become a game.For instance, now, instead of having to play space to make the sound play, just make it play automatically when you land on it with arrow keys. You then have a voiced menu! When you press enter, do the menu actions which will bring you to other menus or start the game.Next, for your convenience, try to output text to a screen-reader, can someone write a quick code sample that will output text to screen-readers, ideally a lib like tolk which supports jaws, NVDA, MSAPI. Change the wav sounds playing by sending the menu name to the screen reader and boom, you have a speaking menu without you having to record anything to voice it.Then you know how to send text during the game. If I want to check my health and press H, then you send the health number to the screen-reader and that's it.Try those examples I gave you, go with easy steps instead of seeing it as a whole big thing that seems impossible to do because there is so much to learn. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421481/#p421481 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more...
You can find the lite OpenAL examples [here], and here's a basic pygame function demonstrating keyboard input and audio playback:import pygame
from pygame import mixer
import sys
def Example():
#initialize pygame
pygame.init()
#initialize sound mixer
mixer.init()
#create display
window = pygame.display.set_mode([640,480])
#load sound
sound = mixer.Sound('tone5.wav')
#main update loop
while True:
for event in pygame.event.get():
if event.type == pygame.KEYDOWN:
#if space is pressed, play sound
if event.key == pygame.K_SPACE:
sound.play()
#if escape is pressed, quit
if event.key == pygame.K_ESCAPE:
pygame.quit()
sys.exit(0)
#update window
pygame.display.update()
Example()
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421475/#p421475
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Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more...
Here's a basic pygame function demonstrating keyboard input and audio playback:import pygame
from pygame import mixer
import sys
def Example():
#initialize pygame
pygame.init()
#initialize sound mixer
mixer.init()
#create display
window = pygame.display.set_mode([640,480])
#load sound
sound = mixer.Sound('tone5.wav')
#main update loop
while True:
for event in pygame.event.get():
if event.type == pygame.KEYDOWN:
#if space is pressed, play sound
if event.key == pygame.K_SPACE:
sound.play()
#if escape is pressed, quit
if event.key == pygame.K_ESCAPE:
pygame.quit()
sys.exit(0)
#update window
pygame.display.update()
Example()
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421475/#p421475
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Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Take this with a grain of salt because I barely know anything about programming:@5: The only thing your post lists that is critical for the OP to start coding games is a class and possibly enumirator. Everything else can be learned over time. If there is something I have learned, it's this:You are not bound to follow the standard.Let me explain. If the 2 of us wrote a simple side scroller and compared the code, how many differences do you think it would have? I'll tell you, too many. There are dozens of ways to do things in coding languages, Dozens! Don't argue that this is more efficient than x because of y and z. Let the beginner learn on their own first. Trust me, they'll ask those questions later and they will be able to comprehend the answers you provide them with instead of muttering that they don't understand. I am a beginner. Take my code and you'll probably condence the 300 or so lines down to 150 because that is the way I do things. Over time, I will learn and find tricks. Statements I can combine into 1 line, variables I can not use, but I need to get a good grip on the basics first. You do not need to know everything about the language. Hell, if you know the input() and variables you can already create a game.@1: For keyboard input and creating a window, use pygame. Open up cmd and type pip install pygame and you should be good to go. I strongly suggest typing in pygame docs into google and reading through the official pygame tutorials. They make your life much easier. If you don't understand, ask. I'm sure that somebody will help you if I don't try to do so first. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421467/#p421467 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... @6, some examples may never hurt. and @5, i know some of the things you spoke about... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421465/#p421465 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Sound_lib has the problem of being a niche library with little documentation, there are other libraries around that may be better suited for your needs, including pygame which has its own basic mixer. If you like, I can provide examples on a pygame loop with audio playback, and theres also my openal examples. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421463/#p421463 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... Sound_lib has the problem of being a niche library with little documentation, there are other libraries around that are better suited, including pygame which has its own basic mixer. If you like, I can provide examples on a pygame loop with audio playback, and theres also my openal examples. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421463/#p421463 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Rastislav Kiss via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... What about oop? Do you know what is a class? Do you understand what is encapsulation, abstraction, inheritance and polymorphism? Do you know enumerators and why they are important? Do you know, that your app or game should be divided to two or three object layers, regarding MVC architecture? Firstones are critical to do anything, lastone is very important to avoid headaches.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421460/#p421460 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
2019-03-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more... well... yes. i just feel that there are a few things of coding i just don't understand.Like for example, how do other people get to use sound_lib so easily in python?How do some people get to use pygame so easily?I just don't know what i am doing wrong... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421448/#p421448 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... What do you mean? What's the issue? What do you want to accomplish that you are not able to? It seems to me you grasped a lot of concepts already. Perhaps you should look at python code of a game that already exist? I'm sure there is at least one open-source python game around here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421445/#p421445 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am not sure any more...
Re: I am not sure any more... it all depends.Just saying development isn't working for me help doesn't do anything, if it's motivation issues then your pretty much screwed, I think.Motivational issues are the down fall of many, many developers including myself. I managed to get back into it.My advice is, drop all development for a while, then, if you rally want to do it again, pick it back up after a while, start from square -1, or 0 I guess. Square -1 is boring. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/421442/#p421442 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
