Re: [Ayatana] complaints
Chrome / Chromium also support add-ons, so I don't understand your point. From: jbi...@ubuntu.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:41:02 -0500 CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] complaints On 31 January 2012 10:32, Pedro Bessa pedbe...@gmail.com wrote: Firefox goes the add-on way while Ubuntu goes the built-in way. How about the Google Chrome / Chromium way? Chrome has pretty close to the same market share as Firefox now so they must be doing something right. Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] rotating side bar
What does this accomplish? How does one navigate it? Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:10:15 +0100 From: supernova...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] rotating side bar Hi all, what do you think about this idea? Supernova ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Serious issues
That would only work for Firefox, not all programs that have buttons on the left hand side. Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:10:36 +0100 From: sony...@live.de To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Serious issues Isn't it possible to adjust the launcher like this? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New mockups for theme selector (ubuntu 12.04 )
I think the point was the thumbnails on the left and larger image on the right was redundant. The moment a user would click on the thumbnail on the left the theme would apply so there would be no need for the larger image on the right. Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:42:06 -0400 From: rolandi...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] New mockups for theme selector (ubuntu 12.04 ) On 09/08/2011 08:22 AM, Christian Rupp wrote: Am 08.09.2011 04:22, schrieb Jeremy Bicha: On 7 September 2011 17:05, Daniel Planaslightgraph...@gmail.com wrote: I created a wiki page with all information, hope you like. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/gnome-apperance-mockups Are you aware that simply selecting a different theme in the drop-down immediately applies the changes? Why do you want to show a preview of the changes? In fact, I think immediately changing the theme makes more sense than a preview. Every change in System Settings takes effect immediately, except for the few that unfortunately require logging out first (or Additional Drivers which can require a reboot). This is because instant-apply preferences are a part of the GNOME HIG. If we exclude the preview feature, what is the purpose of having a separate Appearance window? What is the use case for allowing users to easily select Ambiance for the GTK+ theme and Radiance for the window theme (which was allowed in the old Appearances dialog)? I suggest that users who want to do extensive theme mixing and matching use gnome-tweak-tool (which, by the way, welcomes contributions). Jeremy Bicha ___ Mailing list:https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to :ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help :https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp I also think that a preview isn't necessary. But I agree, that it is hard to find. I also would like to have an option to change some colours. I am going to create a second solution on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/gnome-apperance-mockups ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp A preview may not be necessary, but it sure comes in handy. Not only is it what users migrating from a world of windows be accustomed to, but it will also be what users migrating from GNOME 2.x and even KDE will be accustomed to. Apart from familiarity, it makes it easier to select a theme that you actually want, and that won't give conflicts. For example, I sometimes find it problematic to use GNOME Tweak Tool for switching the theme, because some new themes have bugs (wrong text colour etc), and others are just plain ugly (but look great in their previews online). ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New mockups for theme selector (ubuntu 12.04 )
I know it's a mock, but if the thumbnails on the left are just pngs and not dynamically generated, why not make it so it fixes the bug where the button placement is incorrect? (as in Ambiance/Radiance should show left side buttons in the thumbnail) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 15:32:35 +0200 From: daniplana...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] New mockups for theme selector (ubuntu 12.04 ) I made some mockups for discus in next release, hope you like. New icon theme selector: http://www.lightgraphite.com/apperance%20mockup%2001.png Theme selector inside: http://www.lightgraphite.com/apperance%20mockup%2002.png ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Regressions in Unity for 11.10?
Of course, since all of 11.10 isn't molded to your personal preference that means opinions don't count. Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 21:26:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Regressions in Unity for 11.10? From: gandreol...@gmail.com To: merkin...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Whims for Unity in Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1. It's sad that changes are decided without usability tests, and opinions don't count. Even if there are reasons for having concerns about the changes in UI, instead of looking for solutions, people that decide changes simply force to use what they believe is the best. That is, I can accept something new, even if I don't like it. But I have concerns about the changes in design. And the attitude is no. I like the changes, and all your concerns are invalid. Because I like it and I think 99% the people will love it. 2011/8/31 Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com When an application is maximized, the close/minimize/maximize widgets are hidden by default. To make them appear, the user has to hoover over the top panel. This means aiming twice: once to make the widgets appear, and then again to click on the desired widget. Seems very counterproductive to me. The same is valid for the global menus by the way, but I never found this to be problematic myself. Still, it would be a good idea to at least provide a user setting to keep the global menus displayed by default. How is it you find it problematic hiding the same three buttons in same position, yet don't for hiding a menu of varying sizes and content? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Regressions in Unity for 11.10?
When an application is maximized, the close/minimize/maximize widgets are hidden by default. To make them appear, the user has to hoover over the top panel. This means aiming twice: once to make the widgets appear, and then again to click on the desired widget. Seems very counterproductive to me. The same is valid for the global menus by the way, but I never found this to be problematic myself. Still, it would be a good idea to at least provide a user setting to keep the global menus displayed by default. How is it you find it problematic hiding the same three buttons in same position, yet don't for hiding a menu of varying sizes and content? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] A rather radical Unity design idea with mockups
I'm pretty sure a lot of Unity is 'mirrored' in locales with right to left languages. Anyone feel free to correct me though. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:51:15 +1000 From: james.g.jen...@gmail.com To: eylemk...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] A rather radical Unity design idea with mockups Hi Eylem, From past discussions I've seen on here I have received the impression that the reasoning for the focus on the top left corner is based on the common left to right, top to bottom reading of most western countries. This is the explanation I saw in regards to moving the window controls from the top right to the top left and from memory this was the reasoning for having the launcher at the top left corner. I don't know if this was extended to the placement of the panel on the left (though one could view it in these terms). I'm at a loss to explain how this benefits those who read Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac and other languages. However considering the prevalence of English as a second language and how western influence is affecting Chinese, one could consider left to right, top to bottom to be the most commonly used form of reading overall. I suspect this may be their thinking (if someone knows of a paper or publication that explains their reasoning, then I would love to read it). That said I do agree that I have some concern about the window controls being directly below launch button as per Ubuntu 11.10 alpha 3. I think that the launch button (as described in prior posts) being a separate button at the top of the panel and in the panel makes a lot more sense than on the bar itself. If you were to change your first image such that the bar reads from top to bottom instead of bottom to top, then I don't see any issues with window controls being near the launcher. In your first example the controls will be always near the panel, just not near the launcher. One could argue that if you want the window controls away from the side panel, then move the window controls back to the right hand side. That said I have no particular opinion on where they should be, both the window controls and the button for the launcher. I do tend to agree with the logic of top right is natural from a reading point of view, but it's all about what your used to. Ex windows users will be used to the bottom left, OSX users to the tray at the bottom. People seem to forget that once memory muscle is developed, it doesn't matter where it is. The Qwerty keyboard is a good example of this. Personally I found the window controls on the left very disconcerting initially, but now I don't even think about it (memory muscle has been developed). And this is despite the fact that I use Win XP at work and Ubuntu at home. Same applies to the application menu, screen size considerations out of the way, I'm used to it and don't find it that annoying (though the hidden application menu is still irritating, to me this goes against some HCI principles, but it's arguable either way). Regards, James ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] New Alt-Tab
So I saw the video for Oneiric's Alt-Tab on OMG Ubuntu and I was a bit disappointed. It just seemed like icons with a bit of the coverflow tilting. It's probably too late to implement now, but I had the idea where Alt-Tab would make the launcher visible, non running applications would be desaturated and in the main view the window(s) for only the highlighted app would show (expose view if mulitple windows). This way, it stays consistent with look at the launcher for running applications and provides previews to the content of said applications. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Multiple virtual desktops in Unity
There would need to be some user testing, but I don't think people just use one full-screened app at a time. This, coupled with your own admission of exceptions to be made for application would I think cause more confusion and inconsistency than the current implementation. On the other note, if (presumably left clicking an icon in ther launcher) minimizes it, how would you propose managing multiple windows of the same application? From: jorge.ortega...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:18:03 +0100 To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] Multiple virtual desktops in Unity I find Unity approach to multiple virtual desktops extremely half-hearted: it just provides the option to used them and an icon which you can't remove from the bar. Unity could use virtual desktop in a transparent way: 1-Don't show icon if only a desktop is being used. 2-Apps. should open in a new virtual desktop each. (by default) 3-When more than one app. is open then the icon to switch desktops appears in the bar (it has to be very prominent) 4-Exceptions should be made, probably for configuration tools. For instance, when you open pulseaudio sound preferences this window should appear in the active dektop. The understanding is you are just checking on something or carrying out a very transitory task and close the app straight away. A case could be made for multiple isntances of the file manger as well: most of the time we are transferring files between windows. 5-The transitions between desktops (apps. in fact) should be very smooth and not sight-tiring. In short: current behaviour: apps open in the same space and the user has to put them in different deskops. suggested behaviour: apps open in their own space and the user has to put put them manually in the same desktops if they want to do it. Which such a behaviour the concept of virtual desktops becomes transparent: people would use them without actually realizing, you don't decide to use the feature or not, the feature is at the core of how your computer works.The way to do this doesn't have to be the traditional zoom out/drag and drop/zoon in: drag an icon onto other icon to move apps to the same space/desktop and gain focus on this desktop immediately. In this context minimizing seems to loose any sense: why do you wan to minimize an app that is not sharing its space with anything else? The above proposal has far reaching consecuences but would go a very long way towards simplifying how people use their computers. Failing to implement the above then please, get rid of the desktop-switcher icon and bring back the possibility to minimize windows from the launcher. Jorge - ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Overlay scrollbars
Unity doesn't support single (multi?) touch scrolling like that found on phones? From: marco.ro...@gmail.com To: virtualspect...@googlemail.com Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:51:48 +0200 CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Overlay scrollbars There's a plugin for touch screens called 'Unity Grab Handles' which makes it easy ti resize and move windows.:) Problem isn't in resize windows Problem is in scrolling within a document. In Evince, for example, we have an icon that let you jump to next page, but in other software or dialogue there aren't such a buttons (for instance in System Config window). Using touchscreen is quite impossible scrolling down. MR ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp attachment: face-smile.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Overlay scrollbars
Then wouldn't it be better to file a bug that it's not working properly (presumably with that hardware) rather than coming up with another way of scrolling? From: marco.ro...@gmail.com To: remc...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:24:08 +0200 CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Overlay scrollbars Il giorno gio, 14/04/2011 alle 15.15 +0200, Remco ha scritto: Aren't you supposed to swipe your fingers across the screen to scroll in Evince? An interactive scrollbar is the worst way to scroll in touch UIs. Of course, but ubuntu support for touch screen devices is not so good right today. I have a multitouch screen, but if i put 2 fingers on it I get device to be blocked at all and i have to restart session in order to use it again. Using scroll bar is the only way I have to scroll pages right now. (Me and many other people). MR ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Multiple virtual desktops in Unity
Inconsistency where some open in the new workspace others don't You still didn't answer how one would manage windows if the launcher icon minimized it (I think that's probably better in a separate thread though) From: jorge.ortega...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:16:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Multiple virtual desktops in Unity To: merkin...@hotmail.com There would need to be some user testing, but I don't think people just use one full-screened app at a time. This, coupled with your own admission of exceptions to be made for application would I think cause more confusion and inconsistency than the current implementation It doesn't have to be a maximized apps and don't really see the inconsistency: I just see a very clean screen. I think is a reasonable solution to the problem of clutter and multitasking. On the other note, if (presumably left clicking an icon in ther launcher) minimizes it, how would you propose managing multiple windows of the same application? This is my pet hate with Unity: A solution of a problem shouldn't create other previously nonexistent problem (unable to minimize from icons). As for managing multiple windows there are different options but none should involve renouncing to well tested usability. Think of the upper-right of your screen: soundmenu and all the other applets. You click and bring the thing, click again and hide it. On 14 April 2011 14:15, Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com wrote: There would need to be some user testing, but I don't think people just use one full-screened app at a time. This, coupled with your own admission of exceptions to be made for application would I think cause more confusion and inconsistency than the current implementation. On the other note, if (presumably left clicking an icon in ther launcher) minimizes it, how would you propose managing multiple windows of the same application? From: jorge.ortega...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:18:03 +0100 To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] Multiple virtual desktops in Unity I find Unity approach to multiple virtual desktops extremely half-hearted: it just provides the option to used them and an icon which you can't remove from the bar. Unity could use virtual desktop in a transparent way: 1-Don't show icon if only a desktop is being used. 2-Apps. should open in a new virtual desktop each. (by default) 3-When more than one app. is open then the icon to switch desktops appears in the bar (it has to be very prominent) 4-Exceptions should be made, probably for configuration tools. For instance, when you open pulseaudio sound preferences this window should appear in the active dektop. The understanding is you are just checking on something or carrying out a very transitory task and close the app straight away. A case could be made for multiple isntances of the file manger as well: most of the time we are transferring files between windows. 5-The transitions between desktops (apps. in fact) should be very smooth and not sight-tiring. In short: current behaviour: apps open in the same space and the user has to put them in different deskops. suggested behaviour: apps open in their own space and the user has to put put them manually in the same desktops if they want to do it. Which such a behaviour the concept of virtual desktops becomes transparent: people would use them without actually realizing, you don't decide to use the feature or not, the feature is at the core of how your computer works.The way to do this doesn't have to be the traditional zoom out/drag and drop/zoon in: drag an icon onto other icon to move apps to the same space/desktop and gain focus on this desktop immediately. In this context minimizing seems to loose any sense: why do you wan to minimize an app that is not sharing its space with anything else? The above proposal has far reaching consecuences but would go a very long way towards simplifying how people use their computers. Failing to implement the above then please, get rid of the desktop-switcher icon and bring back the possibility to minimize windows from the launcher. Jorge - ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https
Re: [Ayatana] New style of Minimize button for Natty
Right, because the default style of _ means you can never move the Window List to anywhere but the bottom, or well Ambiance has - so I guess that means windows mimize to the middle of the screen? GNOME Shell doesn't have a minimize at all, I guess by your logic isn't not configurable at all, or would that be infinity configurable? At any rate CAN you even move the open applications list in GNOME Shell (from, incidentally the left, where Unity's are)? Though that, like the majority of your replay has nothing to do with the minimize icon and more about Unity in general. Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 15:18:38 -0400 From: bitur...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] New style of Minimize button for Natty Pointing a minimize button at the left dock further highlights that in its current form Unity has taken away layout options for me, a humble end user. If I could disable the new dock entirely, I would rely on something more customizable like AWN and put it wherever I actually wanted it. I don't actually like any docks at all, but now my personal one-panel-no-dock scheme is ~deprecated~ by Unity in Unity's current form, and it seems a dock is now required. I hope that is a bug and not a permanent anti-pattern. Moreover, the Ubuntu Classic session in Natty does not work with all applets that I ~prefer~ to use for the desktop layout that ~I~ want (e.g., the Talika window switcher is fundamental to my layout, but breaks Natty Classic). Unity has to become ~at least~ as customizable as Gnome 2.x or it is not a productive environment for ~me~. Moreover, taking time to learn new paradigms more appropriate for handheld devices than my laptop (and new buzzword terminology) may amuse designers, but it is a distraction for me. I don't know if I am the mythical normal user or not but I am an end user nonetheless, and I don't much care for designers handing down usage pattern mandates to me from the hipster tower. Gnome's historical reputation for taking away choice may well be eclipsed by Unity if some fundamental things do not become optional rather than mandated. Among other oddities, why does Mark Shuttleworth care where I place a trash icon? If you think you're making something for the average user, ask yourself if the average user would even be signed up to this list. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New style of Minimize button for Natty
Maybe just wait for 11.10 which will have Unity 2D and Unity 3D?The other UI options would be GNOME Shell (no minimize button at all), and if still supported by GNOME, the panels. So the newer button would work for all but one of the UIs as opposed to just one UI (well Shell as well due to not even being present) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 07:26:06 -0700 From: ottoman.k...@yahoo.com To: marcobiscaro2...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] New style of Minimize button for Natty Really nice idea. +1 Some questions: But and about the classic desktop edition? It'll use the same button than Unity? Or we won't change the metacity theme, but hack Unity to use the new button? All themes will use the new icon or just [Amb|Rad]iance? In classic desktop the minimize button will use the classic style while in Unity will use the new style (using some hack or whatever). = WIN :-))The new button may just for [Amb|Rad]iance. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New style of Minimize button for Natty
I filed a bug (with a slightly different mockup) a while agohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/686133 From: ottoman.k...@yahoo.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 08:17:27 + Subject: [Ayatana] New style of Minimize button for Natty SInce the applications window minimize to the launcher (which on the left) in Natty Narwhal, how about change the current style of Minimize button to this : http://i.imgur.com/AxKxD.png What do you think? -- This message was sent from Launchpad by Muhammad Nabil (https://launchpad.net/~ghogaru) using the Contact this team link on the Ayatana Discussion team page (https://launchpad.net/~ayatana). For more information see https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ContactingPeople ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What to do with the menubar on non-full screened windows.
If the menu being in the exact same place is how it should be then why not have Maximize/Minimize/Close up there the whole time too? From: isan...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:20:54 + Subject: Re: [Ayatana] What to do with the menubar on non-full screened windows. If the invariant condition here is the menu goes with the title and controls, than it really would seem more consistent to have the menu-bar in/near the title-bar for non-maximized windows, whether as a traditional menubar, a menu-bar-in-titlebar, or a menu button. I don't feel like that is the case. Instead, the condition is that the menu bar is always in the panel. The Menu is always in the exact same place, which is how it really should be. The window controls are only in the panel for maximized windows, so they vary more than the menu does. On 03/29/11 09:15:20, ayatana@lists.launchpad.net wrote: On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 08:16, Saleel Velankar [1]svela...@gmail.com wrote: The global-menubar fails for these reasons. 1. Confusion on which application the menu is for. 2. Having to move the mouse an obscene amount 3.  Breaking focus-follows-mouse. Maybe this is just another inconsistency. To me it seems like when the window is maximized, we want the window titlebar, with its controls and title, to be *inside* the panel, and that's also where we're putting the menu. If the invariant condition here is the menu goes with the title and controls, than it really would seem more consistent to have the menu-bar in/near the title-bar for non-maximized windows, whether as a traditional menubar, a menu-bar-in-titlebar, or a menu button. Each has some advantages and disadvantages.  -- Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/XMPP: -= [2]jer...@nickurak.ca =- --0016369f9b18b48439049fa0789a-- References 1. mailto:svela...@gmail.com 2. mailto:jer...@nickurak.ca -- Ian Santopietro ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] 2 nd idea for Unity - Mockup
Why not take the Accesories Games Graphics etc thing a step further and allow the user to make a shortcut to any group of applications? The Widget stuff at 2:24 and especially 2:30 was a bit too OS X for my tastes... Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:45:08 -0400 From: phn...@gmail.com To: n...@lognet.com.br CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] 2 nd idea for Unity - Mockup +1 here!! I think your design can solve lots of Unity's usability issues... On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Fred n...@lognet.com.br wrote: I made a new mockup with new ideas including social networking and a better interface with menus. I hope it will be useful for developers. Mockup in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0O6v9miJKGIvq=hd720 -- This message was sent from Launchpad by Fred (https://launchpad.net/~nq6-lognet) using the Contact this team link on the Ayatana Discussion team page (https://launchpad.net/~ayatana). For more information see https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ContactingPeople ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Group Active Applications at One Place
Running application are available at a glance with the light to the left of the icon. Grouping them together would mean that the placement of the icons would constantly change, hindering muscle memory. The problem may be that running application are still difficult to pin point even with the lights, but I don't think constantly shuffling icons is the solution. From: vibes.ubu...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:57:29 + Subject: [Ayatana] Group Active Applications at One Place Hello, My name is Nitesh and this is my first mail to Ayatana Team. I recently filed a bug in Launchpad and I will repeat the same here as advised. Active applications in Unity currently don't group at one place and they are scattered at various spots in the launcher, even in the icons that are folded in accordion style. This is a real pain because we should know what applications are currently active in one glance. Since we cannot see the entire launcher at one go, specially in large monitors, it takes quite a effort to spot and open apps that are active. It get worse when apps are pinned way at the bottom as they remain folded even when they are active. Hope you get the idea. The solution would to group them at top or at a place where active apps can be quickly spotted. Screenshots: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/736683/+attachment/1914060/+files/Screenshot-1.png, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/736683/+attachment/1914061/+files/Screenshot-2.png Launchpad bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/736683 -- This message was sent from Launchpad by dart (https://launchpad.net/~dart-v85) using the Contact this team link on the Ayatana Discussion team page (https://launchpad.net/~ayatana). For more information see https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ContactingPeople ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] 'Control Center' should be in 'Launcher' not in 'Session Menu'
Someone else suggested putting it in the Me Menu This would solve both problems of not being close to Shut Down nor cluttering up the Launcher From: v...@ubuntu.com To: adnan.qua...@ubuntu-bd.org Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 19:52:30 +0530 CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] 'Control Center' should be in 'Launcher' not in 'Session Menu' On Fri, 2011-03-11 at 13:39 +0100, M. Adnan Quaium wrote: Just got the news from the following link: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/ubuntu-natty-adds-control-centre-entry-to-session-menu/ My opinion is - 'Control Center' should be in 'Launcher' not in 'Session Menu'. Actually, Session menu has nothing in common with Control Center! The Control Center should be in launcher. So that people can easily get access to the control center. I think it'll be very difficult to find out for the users that to change the preferences of his desktop he has to go to the Session Menu. Also by placing it on the launcher, it actually saves one click... :) What do you think? How often do you actually keep changing the System Preferences? Usually one changes a setting maybe a few times during an extended period of usage, but it is not something that warrants a dedicated launcher. A dedicated launcher would just overload the Dash(springboard). -- Cheers, Vish ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Left close buttons on tabs
Chrome's tab behavior for quickly closing tabs is for quickly closing the current tab and the ones after (to the right) of it.If close buttons for the tabs were on the left, then Chrome's behavior would be the same, reorder the tabs upon close, resize them (if necessary) ones the mouse leaves the tab area. Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:34:18 + From: m...@canonical.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Left close buttons on tabs -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Shuttleworth wrote on 20/02/11 15:04: The close-multiple-tabs-fast behaviour just requires that the tab realignment be smart. If you look closely, Chrome realigns twice, once for fast closing, then for better spacing. In other words, if fast-closing is a goal, then it's perfectly possible to ensure that successive close buttons are placed underneath one another, and then the whole set are re-flowed once the obvious closefest is over. ... That would be correct only when none of the tabs you were closing was the last one in the row. If you did close the last tab, though, then putting the close button for the previous tab under the cursor would require the developer to choose one of three unattractive options. 1. Widen all tabs to be even wider than they will be once you leave, and crop part of the last one: | | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \/x 4 \/x 5 \| ↓ | __ __ __ ↓| |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \/x 4 |\ ↓ | __ __ ↓| |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 |\ | | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \| (after leaving) 2. Widen all tabs except the last one to be wider than they will be once you leave, with the last one temporarily being narrower than all the others: | | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \/x 4 \/x 5 \| ↓ | __ __ __ ↓___ | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \/x 4 \| ↓ | __ __ ↓___ | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \| | | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \| 3. Make all tabs temporarily jump one place to the right, resizing back to the left when you leave: | | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \/x 4 \/x 5 \| ↓ | ↓___ | |__/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \/x 4 \| ↓ | ↓___ | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \| | | |/x 1 \/x 2 \/x 3 \| Close buttons at the trailing end avoid any of these awkward choices. And as a bonus, if all the tabs you closed were, when you closed them, the last tab in the row, no further resizing is required once you leave the area. | | |/ 1 x\/ 2 x\/ 3 x\/ 4 x\/ 5 x\| ↓ | __ _ __ ↓ | |/ 1 x\/ 2 x\/ 3 x\/ 4 x\| ↓ | ___↓ | |/ 1 x\/ 2 x\/ 3 x\| | | |/ 1 x\/ 2 x\/ 3 x\| - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1r6qoACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoXHwCgs/EA2wsDs1y7pstHoNeQWQVT Ke0An0cR05yK1xapSBQOaoTaNjUL4+AQ =JWlY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Menu bar integrated in title bar in Unity
That would make dragging the window around very troublesome. From: aazzar...@hotmail.it To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:57:59 +0100 Subject: [Ayatana] Menu bar integrated in title bar in Unity Now Unity Desktop integrates (and hide) the menu bar in the upper panel both for the maximized windows and unmaximized ones. This is the reasons according to Mark Shuttleworth:«One of the design goals of Unity is to reduce the clutter of the desktop, another is to use space more efficiently.We hide the menu by default in Unity because the menu provides no useful information to which you can refer just by looking at it, but it puts a lot of detail on the screen which is visual clutter. So, we’ve taken the view that the menu is there if you need it (by moving the mouse to it or pressing Alt) but otherwise isn’t in your view.Many modern applications are doing without a menu altogether, so in our view, this is a step towards the future, and it will encourage application developers to think about their interfaces and make them more usable by design rather than depending on the crutch of a menu.»Why not integrate (and hide) the menu bar in the title bar instead for ummaximized windows?I have realized a simple mockup that shows my idea. The menu bar will be show only if the menu is over the title bar.However, there are some implementation issues:- if the menu bar is shown in the title bar, how do I use it to drag/maximize/unmaximise the window?- what about if the menu bar is bigger than the title bar?The second is not a real problem: the classic Gnome cut the menu bar if it is bigger than the windows. For the first problem there are different solutions. For example we can use the left button mouse for use the menu bar and the right button mouse for use the title bar (drag, maximize/unmaximized with double click). Or we can add another window control that allows us to drop the windows. Link to the mockup: http://arlecchino92.deviantart.com/art/Menu-bar-title-bar-in-Unity-197776814 and http://www.ubuntusecrets.it/2011/02/mockup-menu-integrato-nella-barra-del-titolo/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Font as default for web site
The only way a font would 'break' a website with the Ubuntu font would be if it broke under the libertarian fonts as well.Arial or Helvetica would be the de facto standard for sans. This is talking about making it the Ubuntu font when it currently isn't either Arial nor Helvetica now anyway. Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 23:06:27 + From: teapot.philosop...@googlemail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Font as default for web site All five generic font families are defined to exist in all CSS implementations (they need not necessarily map to five distinct actual fonts). User agents should provide reasonable default choices for the generic font families, which express the characteristics of each family as well as possible within the limits allowed by the underlying technology. User agents are encouraged to allow users to select alternative choices for the generic fonts. Yes, yes, that's all well and good. However, that does not change the fact that some websites would work better on a non-Ubuntu system and a user could reasonably believe Ubuntu is broken (and in terms of de facto standards for font sizes, they would be right). Acting as if de facto standards are less important than official standards leads to brokenness. Brian ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher
Because it doesn't add anything to usability. I do understand what you're saying about the color clashing, maybe if we go with the green/blue/red thing they may have to be muted colors. From: zekop...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 17:28:25 +0100 To: frederik.nn...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher This all look fine and dandy until you realise that a the icons colors could clash with the icon background. I can imagine it could look quite ugly. Windows 7 has this solved rather nicely so why not simply copy how they did it? On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:50 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 21:33, Owais Lone he...@owaislone.org wrote: Having a reduced set of predetermined colours would greatly increase usability IMO if used in a meaningful way. +1 For example, White -- Normal/Not Running white is default at the moment, that's Ambiance, so agreed. Yellow -- Minimized what for? Green -- Running That's notification color in Ambiance at the moment. Red -- Needs Input|Attention / Notification Red is kinda strong, it means Reboot Required at the moment. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher
I'm sorry, when I said it I meant Unity's current implementation of always have the background color, not Windows 7's implementation. Currently Unity is a clear case of copying the what (the background color is the icons' background color) without copying the why (do so to tell the user which application is running) From: zekop...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:51:49 +0100 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher To: merkin...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com wrote: Because it doesn't add anything to usability. I don't agree. Windows 7 makes it very clear what applications are running and which ones are not. It also makes it clear which ones have multiple windows, which ones have running task etc. Currently the backlight reduces usability because it colors all the icons so the only way to know if applications are running are tiny triangles. I do understand what you're saying about the color clashing, maybe if we go with the green/blue/red thing they may have to be muted colors. From: zekop...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 17:28:25 +0100 To: frederik.nn...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher This all look fine and dandy until you realise that a the icons colors could clash with the icon background. I can imagine it could look quite ugly. Windows 7 has this solved rather nicely so why not simply copy how they did it? On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:50 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 21:33, Owais Lone he...@owaislone.org wrote: Having a reduced set of predetermined colours would greatly increase usability IMO if used in a meaningful way. +1 For example, White -- Normal/Not Running white is default at the moment, that's Ambiance, so agreed. Yellow -- Minimized what for? Green -- Running That's notification color in Ambiance at the moment. Red -- Needs Input|Attention / Notification Red is kinda strong, it means Reboot Required at the moment. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher
Upon experimenting with Unity I've noticed the backlight for running applications. Is there a particular usability reason that the color of the backlight is exactly like that of Windows 7 where it is the predominate color? I'm not saying Windows (or OS X) should never be copied because of some NIH syndrome, but that before it is copied, it should be seen why it was done and if it adds to usability.If the colors aren't any sort of usability factor, then why not make it so? Maybe the background color could be based on the category the application came from, this may help users find what category an application is in if they used another computer.Another idea is to make the background white and then it changes to green/blue/red for the same reasons as the indicator applet to bring about some consistency. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher
That's how it was until the most recent Unity update. It's also how it was when I originally wrote the email.My point was the highlight aka colored background, whether it is always shown or only on an open application, should have more thought behind it than welp it's exactly what Windows 7 does. From: zekop...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 19:37:38 +0100 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Better use of backlight in Unity launcher To: merkin...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com wrote: Upon experimenting with Unity I've noticed the backlight for running applications. Is there a particular usability reason that the color of the backlight is exactly like that of Windows 7 where it is the predominate color? I'm not saying Windows (or OS X) should never be copied because of some NIH syndrome, but that before it is copied, it should be seen why it was done and if it adds to usability. If the colors aren't any sort of usability factor, then why not make it so? Maybe the background color could be based on the category the application came from, this may help users find what category an application is in if they used another computer. Another idea is to make the background white and then it changes to green/blue/red for the same reasons as the indicator applet to bring about some consistency. You mean the colored background around the icon correct? If so I think that it reduces usability. There is too much color flying around the Launcher now. I would like if non-active apps had no color or border around them. The running ones should have the backlight. Basically copy Windows 7 taskbar's behavior. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] OpenOffice bugs as paper cuts
I'm going to guess it's because Lotus Symphony's license is proprietary, not FOSS From: ubuntu.thama...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:11:31 +0700 To: v...@ubuntu.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] OpenOffice bugs as paper cuts Hi All, I've cough by the title. I just wanna ask why IBM Lotus Symphony doesn't be considered to integrate by default to Ubuntu ? I'm currently using and it looks nice for the interface. It may lack some features in spreadsheet, such as URL data import, but I've found it way better than OOffice. Especially, the right handed tools, interface and icons. On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-01-16 at 14:34 +, Chris Wilson wrote: Is it still worth accepting OOo bugs as paper cuts given the lame duck status of the suite at this stage? Most(maybe even all?) of the present remaining OOo papercuts were carried over from last cycle. Desktop team mentioned that whether we stick with OOo or switch to LibO for Natty is still not finalized. It depends on how fast LibO development progresses and how far it is ready before our feature freeze. So for now, since OOo is still in the default Natty install , it's not harmful to get a few of its bugs fixed. ;) -- Cheers, Vish ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] I don't think global menu and the panel is good for a touch OS
I figured the point raised in this topic would be that the global menu items currently are only visible on HOVER. Something that is impossible to do on a touch based device. From: a...@alexandos.org To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 20:10:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] I don't think global menu and the panel is good for a touch OS I agree with the fact that on vertical-screen (aka most screens) devices the global menu won't be that great. However, for vertical screens it's a good space saver. That panel space would not normally be utilized, and it cuts space of every window. Integrating it with the launcher would be really cool, but I'm not sure how we could go about that. Personally, I think the best workaround would be to create some sort of a popup/dropdown sub-panel for when the screen doesn't have enough horizontal space, since then global menu can avoid the applets. On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 10:40 +0700, Thamawij Pirajnaraporn wrote: Hello guys, I have seen the 10.10 netbook and 11.04 Alpha, Unity dock is a big improvement but I think global menu is not a good idea with the following reasons. (At first I though it was a modified gnome panel) Panel-based OS certainly not work for touch OS because : panels take precious horizontal space of a widescreen and it's not match for vertical either. A small panel at the edge of screen is really hard to touch it precisely and increasing the size is just wasting screen space. Especially for netbooks with 1024x600 screen resolution. This will just follow the Microsoft Windows 7 mistake, it sucks on netbook with touchscreen. I have tried both Unity and Windows 7 on Lenovo S10-3 and I barely use touch screen because it's so annoying when you miss a touch. What will happen if small Close/Minimize/Maximize buttons went on the top edge ? Implementing global would be worthy if it had been done a few years ago but doing it now is out-of-date since touchscreen is coming. If the aim is to persuade the users from Mac with the similar interface with a plus of a Unity dock then this is a big mistake (I just guess for the reason, may be I'm wrong), in contrast Ubuntu users that affordable for a Mac would go for it. Ubuntu would be compared as a second class product that following around the successors. The solution I would like to introduce is to implement the whole panel functionality into Unity dock. Make the whole OS be able to controlled by the dock, may be widgets on top of the dock such like Docky Anchor icon and Network Manager and Notification area. I know this is just an opinion which people may both agree or oppose but please kindly take this idea into consideration. I try to introduce the idea for half year and I've got to know the mailing list at last. I'm a plain user who leave Windows behind and go for Ubuntu for 2 years and try out everything since 9.10. I've always looking forward to the next one. Please let me know if I could help anything. Hope my opinion is helpful for you. PS. If you found that this mail is in the wrong place, please let me know the right place to send it. I would be really grateful. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Graceful degradation of Unity
Unity requires 3d compositing. For those without adequate hardware, it falls back to the GNOME Panels. While I understand for this cycle effort should be put into getting Unity functioning, I think for the future a better fallback should be created. For one the GNOME Panels won't be supported forever so it's not a viable alternative in the long run. Two, the UI change from Unity/Panels is drastic. Look at Windows 7, if the user can't enable the compositing, the UI is still similar, it doesn't reset to an XP style of UI. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Graceful degradation of Unity
I know it shouldn't be done for now, I said so in the original post While I understand for this cycle effort should be put into getting Unity functioning, I think for the future a better fallback should be created. Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 11:45:30 -0600 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Graceful degradation of Unity From: spi...@gmail.com To: ryanpr...@gmail.com CC: merkin...@hotmail.com; ayatana@lists.launchpad.net I don't think it is something that needs to be done now either. I think the ideal time to revisit the idea is probably during the next LTS cycle. That gives Unity time time to mature and become part of the brand identity. If it takes hold, then we should definitely revisit the issue for such an important cycle as LTS. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Ryan Prior ryanpr...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com wrote: Unity requires 3d compositing. For those without adequate hardware, it falls back to the GNOME Panels. While I understand for this cycle effort should be put into getting Unity functioning, I think for the future a better fallback should be created. For one the GNOME Panels won't be supported forever so it's not a viable alternative in the long run. Two, the UI change from Unity/Panels is drastic. Look at Windows 7, if the user can't enable the compositing, the UI is still similar, it doesn't reset to an XP style of UI. I don't agree, at least for the moment. In the future where the Unity look is an ingrained part of the Ubuntu brand, I'd agree that there should be a better fall-back for machines which still don't support Unity's technical requirements. However, for the moment the gnome-panels are part of the Ubuntu brand and Unity is the new-fangled outlier, which some users and vocal critics consider to be inferior to the gnome-panels. Maintaining an excellent legacy Gnome interface will help ensure continuity from previous releases or users who cannot use Unity, and I haven't seen any argument that creating a Unity-like fallback which would have to pursue a moving target would be worth the time it would take to develop. Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Applications suggestion according to hardware capabilities
Sounds are one thing. Popups in the taskbar saying device X was inserted and/or on the screen saying you plugged in device X would you like to do Y are another. Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:04:18 -0800 From: witt...@gmail.com To: wa...@ziggo.nl CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Applications suggestion according to hardware capabilities On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Arian van Gend wa...@ziggo.nl wrote: I agree that it is a good idea to support new users in such cases, but most ... The device should just work. Only notify the user of anything if something goes wrong. When a user attaches a web-cam, it knows it did that, so there is no need to bash him with redundant messages, like Windows does. For comparison, a Mac will not display these useless messages. ... Sorry but I have to disagree. The sounds on Windows when plugging and unplugging a device provide good feedback on when the device is available and/or in the process of installing a driver which may be time consuming. Much better than guessing if the device is there. But +1 on The device should just work. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global Menu on the Desktop
I don't mean to sound rude, but did you even read the answers to the link you posted? One of them shows this blueprint which wouldn't use the global menu for the desktop version. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-specialized-unity-form-factor So it seems the desktop version would have room to innovate when it comes to the menu. Do you have any particular ideas? Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:04:46 + From: kaz...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] Global Menu on the Desktop Hi all, So I stumbled across this answer earlier: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10481/does-will-unity-support-disabling-the-global-menu We are getting the global menu by default on the desktop edition. I'm actually overwhelmingly disappointed by this, there were actual logical reasons why the global menu existed in the Netbook edition. Likewise there are very real logical reasons why it makes little sense on a high-resolution, multi-window system. Like the window control position, monochome icons, OSX like side-dock, position of the me menu, identical location of the Ubuntu/OSX icon, purple colour scheme etc. We are again duplicating OSX instead of innovating. I'd love to hear the reasoning. So, so disappointed. Luke. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] clipboard information in context menu
Will 11.04 have no sys-tray? Canonical is behind a release from the plan you posted given 10.10 still has the old clock, network (and power?) applets. Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 09:35:19 +0100 From: m...@canonical.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] clipboard information in context menu -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Hamm wrote on 11/10/10 16:02: Another gripe I have with this idea is that i'd love to see the sys-tray be shrunk down to its bare bones leaving more tray space for applications. ... Ubuntu 11.04 will most likely have no sys-tray at all. http://design.canonical.com/2010/04/notification-area/ But I don't see how that has anything to do with either the clipboard or context menus. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAky0HccACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqzpwCgr9pcYSz3PPXdiVaLehUGVIYm wU0An1l9ityc/N1j6Kg7DMx668cNHsQa =QDV8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity and notifications
I'm thinking they should stay where they are BECAUSE there are other things like (w)indicators there. That way the users knows the upper right corner of the screen is for notifications of any kind. From: daniplana...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:36:13 +0200 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity and notifications I forgot to include a link with a small mockup. as usual, a picture is worth a thousand words. :) http://ompldr.org/vNWpzNg -- Daniel Planas.A www.lightgraphite.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity interface - my Beta review and proposals
So, hey guys, how about that interface proposal, interesting stuff... From: ubu...@kitterman.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:13:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Unity interface - my Beta review and proposals On Monday, September 13, 2010 11:49:47 am Kerberos wrote: On 13/09/2010 16:15, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote: On Monday, September 13, 2010 10:48:36 am frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: Bill Gates is no enemy to Freedom, he is primarily interested in offering profitable commercial solutions, according to what he states in interviews and speeches. I think we are derailing a little here, too, so let's keep the wisdom on topic, if you agree.. I agree with staying on topic, but not the part before that. Scott K Indeed. My original post was much longer and rantier so I just chopped it down to the quote. The anti-MS propaganda should stay on Ubuntuforums, or the mid 90's, where it belongs. Microsoft has 90%+ of the desktop market. Linux has slipped to a two year low of 0.85%. Microsoft are the primary competitor and should be treated with fear and respect. Why does MS have majority marketshare? Find the answer to that question and victory is almost assured. Besides every time someone takes a cheap shot at Windows, Microsoft, Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer you are taking a cheap shot at the people who voluntarily use such software. Insulting your target audience is never a good idea and will only increase the massive selection bias already present in the Linux community. It's not propaganda when it's true. In my career I've only ever had to deal with one company falsely claiming to have invented something I'd been involved in developing in their patent application (and they were well aware since their engineers had been involved too). Stating the truth is not a cheap shot. I suspect you should probably stop now. Scott K ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity interface - my Beta review and proposals
I'm glad you provided mockups and don't simply say you dislike something without providing alternatives. I'm not too familiar with Unity as I haven't been testing it, but I have seen screenshots. So I can't really comment on the Default Desktop mockup you've made. I feel your suggestion for the Application Menu uses all available screen real estate at the cost of running into the same common criticism of GNOME Shell. People like seeing what apps are running at a glance. Also having to click something to open up the list of applications increases mouse clicks and (if you want to be pedantic saying it would work on hover), mouse movement when switching applications . From: citizen.jon...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:20:37 +0100 Subject: [Ayatana] Unity interface - my Beta review and proposals I have been Beta testing the new Unity UNE interface for the last few days and am excited about its potential as a multiple format device front for Ubuntu, especially touch devices. Praise apart, I am going to jump straight into critique of the UI, which was filed as a bug report here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/633073 The huge effort into juicing as much vertical real estate as possible is notable. This should not be the only priority - all real estate on small devices is crucial, thus the omnipresence of the Global Menu for me is a problem. In desktop mode or browsing system menus - fine. When an app is open and I am trying to be productive - never. There has been much discussion about how to autohide the Global menu, but I feel this is not the simplest solution. My other opinion is that real estate should not override the issue of accessibility. Access to apps and system functions should be through the shortest route possible. There should be no duplicate routes which offer access to similar but different usability. At present this is most noticeable in the different approaches to where the Ubuntu button and the Application Launcher global button takes you. They are almost the same thing - but not quite. The desktop -as far as real estate is concerned - is a barren wasteland. The user can't use it for anything, it is just there taking up space when you start your computer. Why not use this and present the whole system map on one page? When an application does not have focus, the user is always back on that page. It works on good website designs, it works on smart phones, so why not do the same for small format devices? To debate these issues, I have attached two wireframe sketches of how I feel Unity can evolve. Looking forward to everyone's thoughts, Michael ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Maverick Movies!
Encode them in WebM so that way the average person can't watch them until Natty is released... Seriously though, maybe put it on Ubuntu.com, but I think the point of advertising as a whole is to get the brand out there to people that don't know what Ubuntu is. A viewer watching it on ubuntu.com shows that they already are somewhat familiar with it. Ideally this would show on television, but that's prohibitively expensive. I do work in radio (and specifically the station's websites) advertising, so there's another venue if interested. Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:55:42 +0100 From: shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com To: christian.giord...@canonical.com CC: ubuntu-market...@lists.ubuntu.com; ayatana@lists.launchpad.net; m...@ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Maverick Movies! Well I think it would be fun to put some of the high quality ones on the front page of ubuntu.com using HTM5 video embedding. --fagan On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Christian Giordano christian.giord...@canonical.com wrote: Sure, it just would be nice to see them linked somewhere :) Cheers, chr On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Shane Fagan shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com wrote: Well of course we have to get the brand correct and all but we should support any efforts to promote Ubuntu. --fagan On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Christian Giordano christian.giord...@canonical.com wrote: Shouldn't we promote our style guides? Sure they probably don't include video editing/transitions etc, but the typography of some of those videos is just too inconsistent. chr On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi folks I saw this amazing movie from the Ubuntu Ads guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHzP7mxRFJE and was inspired to blog http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/489 about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMovies Shout if you are interested in helping host the process or participating. Mark ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Application Indicators improvement suggestion - optional text with icon
I too hope that the weather indicator applet would have the temp. It would seem a bit contradictory to say an indicator (like weather) can't have numbers when Maverick introduces the Time and Date applet From: cmaglot...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 01:59:56 -0500 To: evge...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Application Indicators improvement suggestion - optional text with icon Yes, I too was hoping for this, as many people were complaining about our weather indicator not having the temperature accompanying the weather icon. This was a feature that was included in the gnome clock applet, so therefore it might be missed when the conversion to the weather indicator is made from the applet. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Evgeny Kolesnikov evge...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! Idea: Add possibility to optionally accompany icon with some text (just like Indicator Applet Session or any other menu widget do). Purpose: Some applications are aimed to show some vital information beside boolean Attention/Normal indicator, but this info is simple (just number or short text) and creating dedicated applet (like system monitor or desktop switcher) just not worth it. Examples: CPU frequency, HW info (lmsensors), weather indicator etc. Is there any chance of accepting such a patch for AI API? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Application Indicators improvement suggestion - optional text with icon
I would wager to guess more people care about the temperature than the condition. The equivalent would be if the date was shown by default and the time were hidden. Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:51:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Application Indicators improvement suggestion - optional text with icon From: shrouded.cl...@gmail.com To: merkin...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net It accurately portrays the condition... Just like how the date/time indicator accurately portrays the time, but the date is hidden away in the menu. A single click and you can find out the more in-depth information as needed. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com wrote: Do you think for the weather indicator, icon-only can convey the information accurately? I don't. It could show the sunny icon on both a day where it is 30F or 90F, so icon-only in that case isn't very accurate at all. _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Yet another discussion on window resizing
I'm not sure what cool maximize behaviour you're referring to. As far as the mockup, please make it possible to resize windows from more than just the bottom right corner. Obvious comparisons to Mac OS aside (of which there are too many with Ubuntu's recent directions). Only being able to resize in one part of the window versus 8 is extremely limiting. From: dylanmcc...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:33:27 -0700 To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] Yet another discussion on window resizing Here is yet another discussion on resizing windows, this time driven by status bars! MacOS has a similar situation to us, with very narrow window borders. In its case, they don't even _try_ to offer resizing by the window edge. (The idea being, I suppose, that any control less than five pixels in any direction will be very difficult to reliably use). Rendering that resizing situation less of an issue, MacOS has the very unusual functionality for expanding windows, and pretty well every window has a client-owned resizing grip in the bottom right. Gnome has a _similar_ solution in place. We don't have the cool maximize behaviour (and it would probably anger a great number of people if it was implemented), but any window that happens to have a status bar will probably have a resize grip as well. Unfortunately, this resize grip is not a widget you can just drop in easily; it's fused to the status bar widget. (Further demonstrating that the darn things have no objective and should stop being called status bars). So, here is the problem: there's a plan to get rid of of status bars and replace them with ephemeral hint bars. And now, I'll bring your attention back to everyone's favourite bug, lp:160311 (“Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult”). https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/160311 The status bar work shouldn't make that bug worse, but in the current direction it will. I discussed a possible solution for this somewhere, and nobody really gathered what I was babbling about. To fix that, I finally made a quick mockup today… http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/mockups/metacity-resize-control/mockup.html That describes a visible resize control drawn by the window manager. It should fade in when the user moves the mouse near a window's bottom right corner. It should only appear for the window that is in the foreground. Clicking it would do the same thing as clicking and dragging the corner of a window's border, except there's a lot more to click and much more meaningful visual feedback. It does miss a critical detail, of course, but I, err, never saved the SVG. The resize control should go _behind_ the window, not in front of it. That way it sticks out from the window but doesn't interfere with anything in the client area. (As drawn there, it would become very difficult for some people to use scroll bars). I'm sure there are some other clever solutions here! Maybe even some plans attached to the Windicators / Hint bars work :) So, I am curious to know: is there anything happening in this space? Should there be? Thanks! Dylan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Start Menu Concept
Reminds me of GnoMenu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 10:10:49 -0700 From: davidth...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Ayatana] Start Menu Concept http://i.imgur.com/0bC6I.jpg Idea's taken from: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1476241 imo, id have just applications and recent with a side arrow to expand either, knocking out the places when expanded. Applications (popular)Full list Recent Items Zeitgeist The above picture is to kinda match where cardapi is looking. _ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lock Screen / Guest Session / Switch From / Log Out / Suspend / Hibernate / Shut Down
Removing Restart would cause a lot of people to be upset. Not only since Restart is a pretty basic function, but that it'd be confusing that after a kernel update it says the computer must be restarted, when the option would no longer be there. Even if the user were to figure out to shut down then press the power button, it's an extra step. From: remc...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 21:13:28 +0200 To: alex.la...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Lock Screen / Guest Session / Switch From / Log Out / Suspend / Hibernate / Shut Down On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 19:54, Alex Launi alex.la...@gmail.com wrote: Any easy fix to remedy part of the situation would be to remove the Guest session button and move that into the 'Switch from' window. That sounds alright. Choosing the mysterious Guest Session is conceptually the same as switching to a brand new temporary account. It may actually be easier to understand if this option is offered and explained on the Switch From screen. * Log Out Log Out can be removed by default. Most systems are single-user systems, so there's no need to close a session but not a computer. Even on family systems with multiple users, the computer will not be running when there is no session. Switching to another user can be done with Switch From. The need for Log Out is for situations where the machines are just terminals, such as universities and internet shops. These computers are never shut down, so Log Out would replace Shut Down. * Suspend / Hibernate I don't think both options should be there. There should be a single option called sleep, which does either one of them, or both, depending on the capabilities of the system and user preference. Sleep should not go away entirely, because not every computer has a special sleep button. Desktops and tablets for example. Laptops and netbooks may have the ability to go to sleep when the lid is closed, but I find that a bad functionality, because then you can't just close your laptop to make some room while it is doing an upgrade or burning a CD. * Restart This can go away, too. It's the equivalent of shutting down and then pressing the power button. Ubuntu should make it easy to understand that the computer has shut down, by providing a graphic, and it should be fast enough (less than 5 seconds), so users are not waiting needlessly to press the power button again. Update-manager can of course offer a restart button in case of kernel upgrades. Even better would be to use ksplice, so that reboots are never needed. So, then we're left with: Lock Screen Switch From john - Sleep Shut Down Or Log Out for that last one, depending on the setting. Now, that's clean! -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Putting some brakes on the enthusiasm
Telling users Lucid will be an LTS for the past two years and then suddenly reverting to a previous release a month AFTER Lucid comes out is not a solution Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 06:53:12 -0700 From: witt...@gmail.com To: kaz...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Putting some brakes on the enthusiasm I believe the proper solution is to promote Karmic to LTE and call Lucid Maverick Experimental, then these issues don't exist for users that don't choose to be on an experimental branch. On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Luke Benstead kaz...@gmail.com wrote: My question is: isn't it time to put some brakes on the enthusiasm and start prioritizing polishing instead of new features? The current approach is not scalable, and this is starting to show... Really just a +1 to everything said. Although I particularly agree with David Siegel's comment about not shipping things unfinished. Luke. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Inconsistencies from LHS buttons
Well it would be more analogous to say Just because Firefox on Mac does it. Since Safari, Mac's native browser, does in fact have its close tab buttons on the left. Regardless we shouldn't do something just because Mozilla and or Mac OS X do/don't do it. We should see what would be best for the users' overall expectations. Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 23:29:15 -0700 From: tylerbrain...@gmail.com To: djay...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Inconsistencies from LHS buttons Just cause mac does it, doesn't mean its the best. Mac doesn't have the basic idea of window management in the upper left and notifications in the upper right, we do. On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Alex Lourie djay...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Frederik Nnaji frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 21:48, Mark Curtis merkin...@hotmail.com wrote: Tabbed Applications: Firefox, gedit, Nautilus, etc. All these applications have their close buttons on the right hand side of their respective tab. Appearance Preferences: The thumbnails do not correctly show the LHS buttons for Ambiance, Radiance and Dust GNOME Shell: This may be something more for GNOME devs, but the window controls end up on the right when using GNOME Shell, also closing windows from the Activities Overlay also is in the upper right corner. +1, +1 and +1 Taking into consideration that many of the interface ideas came from Mac, here's the thing: Firefox on the Mac OS X also has close-tab controls on the right side. -- Alex Lourie ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Inconsistencies from LHS buttons
This is not complaining about their position and demanding they be put on the right. I know such a message would be pointless. I however notice a few inconsistencies brought about by their placement. Indicator Session: I brought this up in an earlier thread, but was drowned out by the thread about single-click folders. If the left hand side of the screen is for starting/quitting and the right is for status, then shouldn't Indicator Session go on the left as well? Tabbed Applications: Firefox, gedit, Nautilus, etc. All these applications have their close buttons on the right hand side of their respective tab. Appearance Preferences: The thumbnails do not correctly show the LHS buttons for Ambiance, Radiance and Dust GNOME Shell: This may be something more for GNOME devs, but the window controls end up on the right when using GNOME Shell, also closing windows from the Activities Overlay also is in the upper right corner. _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Window close button is not consistent
Oh look at all those Firefox tabs with their close buttons on the right Talk about lack of consistency... Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:45:29 +0200 From: frederik.nn...@gmail.com To: li...@janc.be CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Window close button is not consistent regarding this issue.. On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:20, Frederik Nnaji frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: i say go with what Mark suggested[1] - to use seperate designs for the two cases: * perhaps a hollow red circle on the button for hide window * the red button with the X for close quit The WM only needs to know, if the app is about to quit upon click, or not, in order to draw the correct frame. [1] https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg02181.html here's a 2 frame mockup attached.. _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Move indicator-session to the left?
The reasoning behind the controversial button movement to the left was that starting/quitting would be on the left, and status would be on the right. Given that reasoning, for consistency sake shouldn't indicator-session go on the far left since it is for starting/quitting an entire session? _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders
Switching the behavior in Nautilus to single click causes inconsistency with the Open File dialog of any application. The Open File dialog of Firefox, OO.org, etc still uses the traditional double click. _ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders
Regardless, one or the other has to be the default. I think that's more the discussion here, if changing the default behavior is beneficial. Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 23:47:41 -0700 From: nemes.so...@gmail.com To: inqu...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders On the topic of double click or single click - the user should choose not others. Open Source should not became a prison. 2010/5/12 Jan-Christoph Borchardt inqu...@googlemail.com: What about that? Are there any plans already to default to single click for opening files and folders in Ubuntu? It is way more intuitive to open with just a single click and have the modifier for the less frequent use-case of selecting (multiple) elements. Launcher icons are also activated by single click. A reverse example: My mother always double clicks links in the browser – regardless how often I tell her that it is not necessary. Muscle memory and habit is just too strong. Regarding that nowadays, people presumably spend more time in their web browser instead of their file manager, it would make sense to adopt the web standard for clicking. On a sidenote: I know two kids who changed the click behavior to single click on their own. They see double clicking as just annoying. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Nemes Ioan Sorin ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Should Indicator-Session be put in the upper left corner
The reasoning behind the controversial button movement to the left was that starting/quitting would be on the left, and status would be on the right. Given that reasoning, for consistency sake shouldn't indicator-session go on the far left since it is for starting/quitting an entire session? _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
