RE: [backstage] Internet Standards role
It always gets me that someone actually had to go to the effort of putting in a freedom of information request in order to find out what the BBC's salary grades meant... From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Ant Miller Sent: 07 September 2010 11:01 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Internet Standards role Yeah, we really should get our job descriptions checked for plain english- the BBC has a whole language of it's own in many areas, and unfortunately I think it can act as a barier to getting people in. If people would like to give us feedback or send us questions regarding this job add we'll try and get answers back to all. They'll be public though- in order to ensure it's a fair and open process. a On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Richard P Edwards re...@mac.com wrote: Aha, thanks Simon ... confusion over. :-) On 7 Sep 2010, at 11:39, Simon Thompson wrote: 9 is the pay grade, not the number of days - 9D means a grade 9 person on days conditions. It may be a continuing or fixed term contract. On 7 September 2010 10:23, Richard P Edwards re...@mac.com wrote: This is why I find the 9 days bit intriguing. In the old days I used to put in 120 hour weeks, so I know exactly what you mean by addiction... the interesting part is that the UK seems to have gone to part time contracts where, as Simon says, you can work an 80 hour week with no overtime. OK, you get days off in lieu, but in that kind of job I suspect that finding the free days to take off could be pretty difficult... unless you take a long holiday every summer... in which case the BBC office effectively closes for that time. I think that I can see this ending is all sorts of chaos. :-) In my case, we did not get paid days off in lieu... so if you needed to sleep you had to swallow the financial inconvenience. Neither way is perfect, but calling for a contractual 9 day week seems somehow unsettling for me. Looks like a great job though, they'd also prefer someone uncompetitive - now that made me smile. Regards RichE -- Simon Thompson GMAIL Account -- Ant Miller tel: 07709 265961 email: ant.mil...@gmail.com
[backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-canvas-complaint-5-comes-from-open-source-software-fans/ The OSC is a small body, with 23 members from small development and consultancy firms, and it’s objection is largely philosophical - that Canvas isn’t “open” in the same way Unix and Linux lovers regard “open”. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Accordingly, Project Canvas should all the application programme interfaces (“API”s) and use and publish unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas ready” client solutions on any platform. Personally, I believe the BBC is breaking the Law, and have complained to the OFT (twice) and the BBC (twice) via their web form which has on both occasions lost my complaint. Bizarrely, the OFT does not consider my complaint important enough to pursue, when it has international and nation implications. To quote the OSC. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Project Canvas in its current form is going to lead to the BBC having unprecedented influence in the market for computer hardware and software. It would appear complaints from the public are to be dismissed by 'The Powers That Be'. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
Anyone else notice the similarity between the OSC's position and that held by Clive Sinclair and Chris Curry back when rhe Beeb were backing the NewBrain? - Original message - http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-canvas-complaint-5-comes-from-open-source-software-fans/ The OSC is a small body, with 23 members from small development and consultancy firms, and it’s objection is largely philosophical - that Canvas isn’t “open” in the same way Unix and Linux lovers regard “open”. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Accordingly, Project Canvas should all the application programme interfaces (“API”s) and use and publish unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas ready” client solutions on any platform. Personally, I believe the BBC is breaking the Law, and have complained to the OFT (twice) and the BBC (twice) via their web form which has on both occasions lost my complaint. Bizarrely, the OFT does not consider my complaint important enough to pursue, when it has international and nation implications. To quote the OSC. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Project Canvas in its current form is going to lead to the BBC having unprecedented influence in the market for computer hardware and software. It would appear complaints from the public are to be dismissed by 'The Powers That Be'. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iPlayer intuitive shortcuts (was: regional news - footage available online?)
Whilst (hopefully) people have their eye on iPlayer stuff, is there any chance we can get the sensible redirects added back to the iPlayer? i.e. bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio1 bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bbcone bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bbc3 Etc... Each channel still has its own page with its own URL, It's always how I've entered the site and it's a really nice feature. Well it would seem that my local news, 'South Today', has started being available in iPlayer since 7th September :-) Thanks to whoever made that happen! BTW: Seems that other weekday regional news programmes have also started appearing. Best Regards Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
I'd also say they've done the same with the iPlayer client. If they opened it up, it could be running on pretty mujch anything within months. - Original message - http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-canvas-complaint-5-comes-from-open-source-software-fans/ The OSC is a small body, with 23 members from small development and consultancy firms, and it’s objection is largely philosophical - that Canvas isn’t “open” in the same way Unix and Linux lovers regard “open”. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Accordingly, Project Canvas should all the application programme interfaces (“API”s) and use and publish unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas ready” client solutions on any platform. Personally, I believe the BBC is breaking the Law, and have complained to the OFT (twice) and the BBC (twice) via their web form which has on both occasions lost my complaint. Bizarrely, the OFT does not consider my complaint important enough to pursue, when it has international and nation implications. To quote the OSC. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Project Canvas in its current form is going to lead to the BBC having unprecedented influence in the market for computer hardware and software. It would appear complaints from the public are to be dismissed by 'The Powers That Be'. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Google Instant method?
On 11/09/2010 09:26, Brian Butterworth wrote: They covered it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0eMHRxlJ2c Brian Butterworth Bit of a con in parts. I thought the search for a woman in the museum was fake. Amusingly enough I was trying out Google Scribe only a month or so before Google Instant was rolled out (http://scribe.googlelabs.com/), it's essentially identical tech sans search box. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Google Instant method?
On 13 September 2010 13:03, Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.ukwrote: On 11/09/2010 09:26, Brian Butterworth wrote: They covered it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0eMHRxlJ2c Brian Butterworth Bit of a con in parts. I thought the search for a woman in the museum was fake. Amusingly enough I was trying out Google Scribe only a month or so before Google Instant was rolled out (http://scribe.googlelabs.com/), it's essentially identical tech sans search box. Well and the results. Google Instant isn't the easy autocomplete bit, it is the provision of instant results. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On 13 September 2010 12:19, David Tomlinson d.tomlin...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Accordingly, Project Canvas should all the application programme interfaces (“API”s) and use and publish unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas ready” client solutions on any platform. Was the missing fifth word in that sentence (and submitted response) supposed to be document or publish? I'm wondering if the sentence was edited one too many times and should have read: Accordingly, Project Canvas should publish all the application programming interfaces (“API”s) and use unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas-ready” client solutions on any platform. In the context of software development, I've always understood API to stand for Application Programming Interface. Is the provided expansion also valid? Cheers, Nick - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 13:21, Nick Morrott knowledgejun...@gmail.com wrote: Accordingly, Project Canvas should publish all the application programming interfaces (“API”s) and use unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas-ready” client solutions on any platform. Gah, this makes no sense in the context of what Canvas actually is. If you're going to bitch and moan, at least bloody do it coherently. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 13:33, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 13:21, Nick Morrott knowledgejun...@gmail.com wrote: Accordingly, Project Canvas should publish all the application programming interfaces (“API”s) and use unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas-ready” client solutions on any platform. Gah, this makes no sense in the context of what Canvas actually is. If you're going to bitch and moan, at least bloody do it coherently. Clarification: when I say you I say so in the general sense, not you specifically. :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:33:38 +0100, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 13:21, Nick Morrott knowledgejun...@gmail.com wrote: Accordingly, Project Canvas should publish all the application programming interfaces (“API”s) and use unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas-ready” client solutions on any platform. Gah, this makes no sense in the context of what Canvas actually is. If you're going to bitch and moan, at least bloody do it coherently. +1 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On 13 September 2010 13:36, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 13:33, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 13:21, Nick Morrott knowledgejun...@gmail.com wrote: Accordingly, Project Canvas should publish all the application programming interfaces (“API”s) and use unencumbered open standards so as to enable anyone to provide “Project Canvas-ready” client solutions on any platform. Gah, this makes no sense in the context of what Canvas actually is. If you're going to bitch and moan, at least bloody do it coherently. Clarification: when I say you I say so in the general sense, not you specifically. Thanks. Additional clarification: when I said should have read I meant the OSC meant it to read - last time I play guess the missing word. I probably should have moaned about more important things like paidcontent not knowing the difference between its and it's instead... :) Cheers, Nick -- Nick Morrott MythTV Official wiki: http://mythtv.org/wiki/ MythTV users list archive: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest. - Benjamin Franklin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Mo McRoberts wrote: If you're going to bitch and moan, at least bloody do it coherently. Clarification: when I say you I say so in the general sense, not you specifically. ObEnglish: It's for cases like this that the olde english ye should be re-surrected, and why its use still persists in certain english speaking regions (e.g. many parts of Ireland). regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Pauca sed matura. [Few but excellent.] -- Gauss - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On 13/09/2010 13:39, Tim Dobson wrote: Gah, this makes no sense in the context of what Canvas actually is. If you're going to bitch and moan, at least bloody do it coherently. +1 A sense of outrage always makes me incoherent too. So what is Canvas ? A black box under the control of a Joint Venture, who extends the monopoly interest of the rights holders and using the power of rights holders and the Joint Venture members (including a large public institution) to distort the consumer electronics market in the UK. In violation of competition law. A project that wishes to monitor and control a device paid for and therefore owned by the consumer, through encryption and DRM, removing all consumer control and violating European Law and the Human Rights act in the process ? A project that will exclude more open devices like PC's, and restrict public access to publicly funded content. I guess the above is not how the BBC would describe it ! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Google Instant method?
On 11/09/2010 09:26, Brian Butterworth wrote: They covered it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0eMHRxlJ2c Brian Butterworth Bit of a con in parts. I thought the search for a woman in the museum was fake. Amusingly enough I was trying out Google Scribe only a month or so before Google Instant was rolled out (http://scribe.googlelabs.com/), it's essentially identical tech sans search box. Well and the results. Google Instant isn't the easy autocomplete bit, it is the provision of instant results. Of course, and the results ;-) It's a nice show-off feat nonetheless, although the Beeb News article about how clever design is 'making us stupider' did chime with me to an extent. What will really be impressive is when they manage to get it native in HTML5 for Android phones, that's their next step, I think that's the problem this particular solution will fit with more than desktop usage (I actually craft my desktop search queries quite specifically based on past experience of Google's engine)
Re: [backstage] regional news - footage available online?
Thanks for noticing, have passed your comments on. It seems that they’re not all live yet, but more are on the way. There is a different schedule for regional news, i.e. they only seem to get 24 hours to live and aren’t published daily. Anyone know any more than that? Gavin On 11/09/2010 18:38, Phil Lewis backst...@linuxcentre.net wrote: Well it would seem that my local news, 'South Today', has started being available in iPlayer since 7th September :-) Thanks to whoever made that happen! BTW: Seems that other weekday regional news programmes have also started appearing. Best Regards Phil On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 15:17 +0100, Gavin Johnson wrote: On 01/09/2010 12:01, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 15:25, Gavin Johnson gavin.john...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Hi Phil, Jim et al You be already aware of this but the BBC proposed a local video service last year. The proposal was rejected by the Trust following public consultation. One of the key concerns was about the Œadverse impact on the market¹. You can read a full explanation from the Trust here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/our_work/pvt/local_video_proposal.shtml So while there would be (minor) technical issues involved in delivering local video on bbc.co.uk, they haven¹t been explored because there isn¹t a remit to provide the service. It's worth stressing that the PVT referred to above covered a new £68m service which goes somewhat over and above the existing output from the regions (though I suspect extended versions of material which is edited down for broadcast would fall under that remit). As the Trust says: Within the bounds of existing service licences, the BBC offers regional news on television, local radio and local websites. Programming from the BBC's television services can be shown on the internet. Hunting through /programmes, it seems as hit and miss as suggested earlier. e.g., Points West: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006pft9 versus Reporting Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj3s That's correct, the PVT was a new content proposal. Actually it seems as simple as Nations TV bulletins are on iplayer but the (English) Regions aren't. I think we probably need someone who has greater involvement with iplayer to be certain. Gavin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Google Instant method?
On 13/09/2010 13:20, Brian Butterworth wrote: Well and the results. Google Instant isn't the easy autocomplete bit, it is the provision of instant results. Yeah, my phone does predictive txt, init? Gordo -- Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com http://www.joly.org.uk/ Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] regional news - footage available online?
Yes, just noticed that 'Points West' hasn't made it into iPlayer yet. I believe that even the national news @1/6/10 lives only 24hrs. The ones I did look at: Look North, South Today, BBC London News and North West Tonight seem all to be coming out daily on weekdays since 6th/7th Sept (except BBC London News which has been on iPlayer since 21st April). - Phil On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 16:05 +0100, Gavin Johnson wrote: Thanks for noticing, have passed your comments on. It seems that they’re not all live yet, but more are on the way. There is a different schedule for regional news, i.e. they only seem to get 24 hours to live and aren’t published daily. Anyone know any more than that? Gavin On 11/09/2010 18:38, Phil Lewis backst...@linuxcentre.net wrote: Well it would seem that my local news, 'South Today', has started being available in iPlayer since 7th September :-) Thanks to whoever made that happen! BTW: Seems that other weekday regional news programmes have also started appearing. Best Regards Phil On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 15:17 +0100, Gavin Johnson wrote: On 01/09/2010 12:01, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 15:25, Gavin Johnson gavin.john...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Hi Phil, Jim et al You be already aware of this but the BBC proposed a local video service last year. The proposal was rejected by the Trust following public consultation. One of the key concerns was about the Œadverse impact on the market¹. You can read a full explanation from the Trust here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/our_work/pvt/local_video_proposal.shtml So while there would be (minor) technical issues involved in delivering local video on bbc.co.uk, they haven¹t been explored because there isn¹t a remit to provide the service. It's worth stressing that the PVT referred to above covered a new £68m service which goes somewhat over and above the existing output from the regions (though I suspect extended versions of material which is edited down for broadcast would fall under that remit). As the Trust says: Within the bounds of existing service licences, the BBC offers regional news on television, local radio and local websites. Programming from the BBC's television services can be shown on the internet. Hunting through /programmes, it seems as hit and miss as suggested earlier. e.g., Points West: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006pft9 versus Reporting Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj3s That's correct, the PVT was a new content proposal. Actually it seems as simple as Nations TV bulletins are on iplayer but the (English) Regions aren't. I think we probably need someone who has greater involvement with iplayer to be certain. Gavin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Google Instant method?
On 13 September 2010 14:43, Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.ukwrote: On 11/09/2010 09:26, Brian Butterworth wrote: They covered it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0eMHRxlJ2c Brian Butterworth Bit of a con in parts. I thought the search for a woman in the museum was fake. Amusingly enough I was trying out Google Scribe only a month or so before Google Instant was rolled out (http://scribe.googlelabs.com/), it's essentially identical tech sans search box. Well and the results. Google Instant isn't the easy autocomplete bit, it is the provision of instant results. Of course, and the results ;-) It's a nice show-off feat nonetheless, although the Beeb News article about how clever design is 'making us stupider' did chime with me to an extent. What will really be impressive is when they manage to get it native in HTML5 for Android phones, that's their next step, I think that's the problem this particular solution will fit with more than desktop usage (I actually craft my desktop search queries quite specifically based on past experience of Google's engine) It seems very back to the future. About 15 years ago, we reached this point of interactivity with PC applications. And then we went back to what seemed to me 3270 mode with HTTP. It's taken a decade and a half to get back to half-decent interactivity. The caching and customized prediction are quite impressive. I just love stuff like that. B
[backstage] iPlayer: (Not Available)
iPlayer: (Not Available) can anyone (from the BBC?) explain why** the all new beta iPlayer TV channels are stuffed with programs that are (Not Available)? best Jonathan Chetwynd **given there is already a TV site, I'm totally stumped, makes the product rather distinctly less useful. visions of the MD sticking his image all over the homepage. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:19, David Tomlinson d.tomlin...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: To quote the OSC. http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/downloads/project_canvas/project_canvas_consultation_response.pdf Project Canvas in its current form is going to lead to the BBC having unprecedented influence in the market for computer hardware and software. To be honest, I'm unconvinced by Project Canvas. It's difficult to see how a UK only system is going to compete in this day and age. What does it do that a Google TV box can't do? Why would a manufacturer make a Canvas box instead of something that they can sell in most of the world (or even all of the world with the right components)? All it does is remind me of the BBC Micro Vs PC Compatibles. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 19:38, Scot McSweeney-Roberts bbc_backst...@mcsweeney- To be honest, I'm unconvinced by Project Canvas. It's difficult to see how a UK only system is going to compete in this day and age. What does it do that a Google TV box can't do? Why would a manufacturer make a Canvas box instead of something that they can sell in most of the world (or even all of the world with the right components)? All it does is remind me of the BBC Micro Vs PC Compatibles. Canvas is very short-sighted, but not because it's contrasted with Google TV. GTV has its own raft of moronic issues. From what I know, Canvas started life as something with a relatively exciting promise: blur the lines between content delivered over IP and content delivered over the air. Splendid. Nothing wrong with that. By easing the massive barrier to entry which exists because of the medium (well, media — DTT, cable, and satellite), you open the market up to a whole host of potential content providers who can get their wares into the living rooms of people who don't particularly want to faff around with web (and all it entails) in order to watch some telly. Unfortunately, this poses a bit of a problem. Not for the BBC particularly (although doubtless many within it look upon such a future with a certain amount of trepidation), but for the other partners in the JV who have a whole lot more to lose if people can chip away at their audience-share for everything except the major series with not a lot of outlay. What would be a win to consumers, if done sensible, is potentially a huge loss to ITV, Channel 4, and Channel 5. Essentially, the Canvas JV collectively wants to reap the benefits of the Internet without letting consumers do the same. What we're left with is a somewhat interesting platform. Technically — as far as I can tell based upon what’s been released to date, it's not bad at all, if not particularly forward-thinking. Where we have MHEG on Freeview and Freesat, “application developers” have a choice of MHEG, Flash Lite, or HTML5. Not too shabby. However, the fundamental model remains one whereby the broadcasters as we know them today are not on an equal footing with everybody else, despite a platform which could allow some significant degree of levelling without going too far the other way. Where there was the barrier-to-entry in the form of spectrum and the like, there is now an artificial barrier-to-entry in the form of the Canvas Joint Venture. Thus, Canvas is more or less a souped-up Freeview. It's aiming at the masses, but it’s some distance away from what *could* have been implemented. On the other hand, Google TV doesn't know _what_ it wants to be. Google seems to have this notion that people want to search the web on their TVs and that the user interface for this won't suck balls from 10ft away. Unfortunately, it will. In the end, it's another interesting platform in technical terms, but one which lacks the user experience needed to become a mainstream product (and in the context of this conversation, that's dependent upon whether it lands in the UK any time in the next year or so, which is by no means guaranteed). Worse, GTV – as far as I can tell — lacks any integration between the broadcast stream and the IP-delivered stuff. GTV is, effectively, just a layer on top of whatever happens to be airing. No triggering, no introspection. The “worldwide” angle is a misnomer, because pretty much no TV-related product operates worldwide. Some stuff works generically across all implementations of a particular broadcast standard, but will do so without any of the local niceties. Others will implement multiple standards (although they tend to be quite pricey). The flipside is that the technical aspects of the Canvas specs will probably get punted up to ETSI at some point, and so other countries can run their own “Canvas” ventures working to the same standards. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
To be honest, I'm unconvinced by Project Canvas. It's difficult to see how a UK only system is going to compete in this day and age. What does it do that a Google TV box can't do? Why would a manufacturer make a Canvas box instead of something that they can sell in most of the world (or even all of the world with the right components)? All it does is remind me of the BBC Micro Vs PC Compatibles. This is not my field and I have not been following the details of the implementation of Canvas: The Google TV box (Logitech Revue) is an addition to your set top box, so it does not integrate with Free To Air TV and may be unable to access UK catch-up content. While it has minimum hardware specification, DVB-T2, 32Mb local storage etc, this may be modularised commodity hardware. Revue/Boxee may be cheaper. Canvas to a large extent is a software stack. Core, UI and Marlin DRM will all be closed to the user. Any user HTML, Java/action script would appear to be limited to extensions (e.g. games), or accessing internet content (excluding UK Free to Air catchup etc). If not totally closed like the PS3. Commodity(ish) hardware with access to UK Free to Air TV catch up, is much more like BT, Sky, Virgin services than Google TV (US orientated). Even Google TV is a black box with HDMI (in/out), what I imagine the Open Source Consortium would like (and certainly I would) is a PC with a DVB-T2 USB tuner, allowing an open source implementation of Canvas, which of course would cause an issue with Marlin (unauthorised and insecure (user modifiable) clients). Or better still a simple URI and python/perl/ruby/curl script to access or download Canvas, Free To Air TV catchup content (including HDTV). - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Canvas - Open Source Consortium
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 21:22, David Tomlinson d.tomlin...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: The Google TV box (Logitech Revue) is an addition to your set top box, so it does not integrate with Free To Air TV and may be unable to access UK catch-up content. But it's also getting installed directly into televisions and there will probably be a DirectTV box in the US - it's not hard to imagine DVB-T2 boxes running Google TV. I'm not saying that Google TV is the Canvas killer - it's more that things like Google TV seem to make a lot more sense than Canvas (at least for boxes people go out and buy - maybe it makes sense for things BT Vision boxes). So that's anything like Google TV, Boxee, the modern Internet TVs companies like Samsung are making or one of the other options out there. Pretty much anything with a web browser + full fat flash will work with almost every TV catch up service out there, so I'm not sure why there needs to be a special UK only platform developed. Google TV adds organization, some sugar so I don't have to click on a full screen button and an app platform - which is why I find it far the most interesting option, other people will have other preferences. Or better still a simple URI and python/perl/ruby/curl script to access or download Canvas, Free To Air TV catchup content (including HDTV). As long as we're getting broadcaster solutions to internet problems then that's just not going to happen. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
