Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Michael]

On Sunday 23 November 2008 22:07:20 Michael wrote:
> You obviously can't read.

This should read as "can't read what I meant". Sorry for how that comes across 
otherwise.

I'll step away from email for a while methinks until I start typing sentences 
with all the words in :)


Michael
-- 
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Michael]

On Sunday 23 November 2008 21:07:04 Aleem B wrote:
> > one of the more amusing aspects about
> > that is that some people prefer DVD because "it doesn't have any DRM". 
...
> DVDs are not DRM free.

Sigh. You obviously can't read. I said I found it amusing that people prefer 
DVD because they says "it doesn't have any DRM". ie the average person in the 
street can copy DVDs perfectly happily. For them that DRM mechanism doesn't
work *at all* since it doesn't impede their ability to copy them.

That means they may as well be DRM free, since some people *think* they 
already are (since it doesn't impede their actions).

As for the rest you've decided to lecture me, and I've decided to delete it, 
since I don't see the relevance to me.

Have fun :)


Michael.
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Aleem B]

Michael,

The reason for this is probably due to the rather extreme lengths that
> Microsoft appear to have gone to with regard to their DRM system. This
> is a either a good thing or a bad thing from any given individual's
> perspective.


>From the end consumer it's never good. From a company's perspective, as I
have repeatedly pointed out, there's no money to be made through music
sales. It's a break-even distribution channel for the most part as
Oppenheimer repeatedly points out during AAPL earnings.


> As a result, given the rather (apparently) extreme lengths gone to, the
> statement "Microsoft has always preferred DRM-free" is a rather big
> surprise.

It would be akin to hearing Richard Stallman say that he'd always preferred
>
proprietary software - ie completely at odds with observed behaviour.
>


Years back, Apple has dominated the market with the iPod. Prior to Zune,
Microsoft was licensing it's Plays for Sure technology and licensing it to
third parties. Third party vendors didn't have much choice because Microsoft
provided them a platform to unite against AAPL--they figured they'd
differentiate on the hardware and the music would be made available through
Microsoft's channels and give them a chance against Apple (which had already
proven that the vertical model was the best). This was not an extremem
measure. It was the only way to remain competitive. Apple along with the
rest of the market already had (and still have) some riduclous DRM
restrictions. I don't see how Microsoft's position was any more extreme.
Microsoft was coming up with a competitive platform and it is _simply not
possible_ to be competitive by offering a DRM free player. Sad as that may
be but the RIAA defends its turf very aggresively. Let's not forget the
university students who were taken to court for filesharing and made
examples of.

Making Microsoft a scapegoat is to ignore all the other vendors. LG, Sony,
Philips, YouTube, Samsung, Creative, Apple, and whoever deals with copyright
content goes down the DRM route--not only that but that's the route they all
started upon, from beginning to end. So really, there isn't much choice. If
you can make money off a linux based media player which supports open
standards, kudos to you. But you won't get very far. There are no existence
proofs.

No. Microsoft are not legally obliged to facilitate copyright through DRM.
> No
> one is. They may have chosen to make certain decisions based on economics
> and
> based on how they expect markets to change with the aim of increasing their
> value to their shareholders, since that's the bottom line for a publically
> traded company, but they had a clear choice.


It's not possible to be competitive with a DRM-less player. You can't
legally download JayZ or Pink Floyd or whatever mainstream channels/stations
are airing. DRM free is the edge case, not the mainstream and as such it is
not a viable economic alternative. The links you provide for DRM free
content are all on the edge... it doesn't mean all that much until you can
point me to a succesful DRM free hardware device.

Most arguments to do with DRM really boil down to economics in the end,
> and the DRM involved only affects the economics involved whilst it remains
> effective. Even then, it's debateable how effective that affect is. After
> all,
> DVDs seem to be doing OK, and one of the more amusing aspects about
> that is that some people prefer DVD because "it doesn't have any DRM".
>

DVDs are not DRM free. DVD players have region codes (movies and games
alike). DVDs are not easy to copy (the litmus test is if any of your aunts
or uncles can do it). Also, no one I know has a DVD player with a copier
sitting in their lounge like it used to be with the VHS. User's don't choose
DVDs out of preference, DVDs are the only viable option they've got if they
want to watch movies. If things go at the same pace, years blue-ray will
also go down the route of planned obsolence.

- Aleem

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Fearghas McKay]

On 23 Nov 2008, at 17:55, Brian Butterworth wrote:

To be honest, I have gone over it so many times I got the distinct  
impression - indeed a direct suggestion from a BBC person I very  
much respect - to stop going on about it, so I refer you to the  
podcast discussion because it is the most easily accessible  
backstage.bbc.co.uk archive.




If ( somewhere in ) an hour long prodcast is the most easily  
accessible presentation of your position perhaps you should post a  
text version you can refer people to? Or provide timings for those  
that want to use the podcast.



Basically, mathematically DRM is snake oil.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil_(cryptography)


e yes I expect we all know that, but what has that to do with  
Microsoft's position on DRM in particular?


Not trolling - just trying to see what makes their take on it so  
different other than the fact that they are the evil Borg, albeit with  
a bunch of very clever smart people working inside it who don't  
necessarily all run windows. Microsoft is not a monoculture on the  
inside.


f
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Michael]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Another alternative universe moment...
> 
http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
>
> "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new Media
> Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the charms
> of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has always
> preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless understands
> the need for protections."

On Sunday 23 November 2008 09:36:41 Aleem B wrote: 
[ in a slightly different order ]
>
> What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?

First of all, he doesn't say he finds it alarming, he says "Another 
alternative universe moment". This to me can be at best described 
as "surprised beyond belief".

The reason for this is probably due to the rather extreme lengths that 
Microsoft appear to have gone to with regard to their DRM system. This
is a either a good thing or a bad thing from any given individual's
perspective.

As a result, given the rather (apparently) extreme lengths gone to, the 
statement "Microsoft has always preferred DRM-free" is a rather big
surprise.

It would be akin to hearing Richard Stallman say that he'd always preferred 
proprietary software - ie completely at odds with observed behaviour.

> And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
> legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
> RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
> faciliate copyright through DRM. 

No. Microsoft are not legally obliged to facilitate copyright through DRM. No 
one is. They may have chosen to make certain decisions based on economics and 
based on how they expect markets to change with the aim of increasing their 
value to their shareholders, since that's the bottom line for a publically 
traded company, but they had a clear choice.

Likewise, other providers, and labels make choices based on certain views of 
economics that one approach is more suitable at any given point in time, but 
given you can buy content DRM free these days:

   * http://www.google.com/search?q=DRM+free+itunes
   * http://www.google.com/search?q=DRM+free+amazon
   * http://www.google.com/search?q=DRM+free+EMI

... amongst others, then this makes your other assertions more dubious, unless 
you can back up your claims. However, this seems pretty recent:

   * http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10102414-37.html

And this seems to rather indicate the opposite of your points.
   * http://news.google.com/news?q=DRM+free

Most arguments to do with DRM really boil down to economics in the end,
and the DRM involved only affects the economics involved whilst it remains
effective. Even then, it's debateable how effective that affect is. After all,
DVDs seem to be doing OK, and one of the more amusing aspects about
that is that some people prefer DVD because "it doesn't have any DRM".


Michael.
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Brian Butterworth]

2008/11/23 Fearghas McKay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
> On 23 Nov 2008, at 12:31, Brian Butterworth wrote:
>
>  Of course not.  He can't be arsed to listen to the podcast.
>>
>>
> No you can't be arsed to present your position in the same medium that we
> are having this discussion.


Good point, but I was accused of posting flamebait!


>
>
> So please explain your point using text rather than just pointing to
> somewhere in a podcast - without even the benefit of a time point so that we
> can find it accurately.


To be honest, I have gone over it so many times I got the distinct
impression - indeed a direct suggestion from a BBC person I very much
respect - to stop going on about it, so I refer you to the podcast
discussion because it is the most easily accessible backstage.bbc.co.ukarchive.

Basically, mathematically DRM is snake oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil_(cryptography)



>
>
>f
>
> -
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>



-- 

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Rob Myers]

Aleem B wrote:

> (why is it so surpising that microsoft would prefer
> DRM-free content).

Their prior actions, corporate culture, general technological
strategies, partnerships and regulatory environment.

And you have stripped the emphasis of the original. There is no evidence
that MS *have always* preferred drm-free content. Quite the opposite in
fact. For any Microsoftie to now claim that the corporation has always
preferred drm-free content is at best wishful thinking on their part.

When followed of promises of yet more DRM, that isn't alarming, it's
risible.

- Rob.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Sean DALY]

Aleem - The answer is yes, the question is so confounding that a quick
response won't suffice. Take a look at the backstage list archive, you
will drink deeply from that fountain.



On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> Aleem, are you aware of the difficulties the BBC has encountered in
>>> the iPlayer project after choosing Microsoft DRM to satisfy content
>>> rights owners?
>>
>> Of course not.  He can't be arsed to listen to the podcast.
>
> Is the question so confounding that you cannot offer a quick response and
> feel compelled to link to a one hour video that doesn't directly pertain to
> my question. If you had a response you'd have given it by now--you probably
> don't so you are waffling about.
>
> -- Aleem
>
>
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Fearghas McKay]

On 23 Nov 2008, at 12:31, Brian Butterworth wrote:


Of course not.  He can't be arsed to listen to the podcast.



No you can't be arsed to present your position in the same medium that  
we are having this discussion.


So please explain your point using text rather than just pointing to  
somewhere in a podcast - without even the benefit of a time point so  
that we can find it accurately.


f

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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Aleem B]

> Aleem, are you aware of the difficulties the BBC has encountered in
>> the iPlayer project after choosing Microsoft DRM to satisfy content
>> rights owners?
>
>
> Of course not.  He can't be arsed to listen to the podcast.
>

Is the question so confounding that you cannot offer a quick response and
feel compelled to link to a one hour video that doesn't directly pertain to
my question. If you had a response you'd have given it by now--you probably
don't so you are waffling about.

-- Aleem

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Brian Butterworth]

2008/11/23 Sean DALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Aleem, are you aware of the difficulties the BBC has encountered in
> the iPlayer project after choosing Microsoft DRM to satisfy content
> rights owners?


Of course not.  He can't be arsed to listen to the podcast.


>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > BBC is a public service so the issues don't really translate to
> > Microsoft/DRM which is inclined to support DRM so it can sign deals with
> > labels and sell their music players.
> >
> > Your original mail (and subsequent follow up) is classic
> > flamebait--something you should avoid altogether.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Brian Butterworth <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> 2008/11/23 Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>
> >>> And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
> >>> legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
> >>> RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
> >>> faciliate copyright through DRM. If the iPod weren't DRM'd, iTunes
> >>> wouldn't have any sort of deal with the labels. AAPL doesn't make much
> >>> on iTunes (but that's slowly changing as its position grows ever more
> >>> commanding and the RIAA are aware and trying to mitigate this
> >>> somewhat). FWIW, apple also maintains the same position (despite iPod
> >>> DRM annoyances) though Jobs has been slightly more forward about this
> >>> position.
> >>>
> >>> What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?
> >>
> >> cf
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2007/02/bbc_backstage_p_1.html
> >>
> >>>
> >>> -- Aleem
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> > Another alternative universe moment...
> >>> >
> >>> >
> http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
> >>> >
> >>> > "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new
> Media
> >>> > Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the
> >>> > charms
> >>> > of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has
> >>> > always
> >>> > preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless
> >>> > understands
> >>> > the need for protections."
> >>> > ---
> >>> > Brian Butterworth
> >>> >
> >>> > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> >>> > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
> >>> > switchover
> >>> > advice, since 2002
> >>> >
> >>> -
> >>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
> >>> please visit
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
> >>>  Unofficial list archive:
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Brian Butterworth
> >>
> >> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> >> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
> switchover
> >> advice, since 2002
> >
> >
> -
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>



-- 

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Aleem B]

> MS has a lot of employees - many have never liked DRM, many would bet their
> future on it. En-masse I thinkg MS tends towards the latter rather than the
> former.


I don't think DRM will go away either but that doesn't mean I like it. If I
were a company seeking out to build a music player I would opt have to
support DRM to stay competitive. Since you have heard the debate in its
entirety, maybe you can save me an hour and respond to my question?

MS has a lot of employees - many have never liked DRM, many would bet their
> future on it. En-masse I thinkg MS tends towards the latter rather than the
> former.
>

That's conjecture.

His follow-on avoided a flamewar and pointed to a neat catalogue of
> previously
> stated views. Your response was to try and inflame the thread. Please don't
> do that.


I was soliciting a categorical response to my question. Of which I have not
seen any from you or him (why is it so surpising that microsoft would prefer
DRM-free content).

-- Aleem

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Aleem B]

Does it in any way run counter to Microsoft's statement that they prefer
DRM-free content? Microsoft has a tainted history of bugs around DRM
(possibly even reason enough them the skip it altogether). The point,
however, is that Microsoft has little to gain from DRM but that's the will
of the media moguls. I would like to know what Brian found so alarming about
Microsoft's stance?

-- Aleem


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Sean DALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Aleem, are you aware of the difficulties the BBC has encountered in
> the iPlayer project after choosing Microsoft DRM to satisfy content
> rights owners?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > BBC is a public service so the issues don't really translate to
> > Microsoft/DRM which is inclined to support DRM so it can sign deals with
> > labels and sell their music players.
> >
> > Your original mail (and subsequent follow up) is classic
> > flamebait--something you should avoid altogether.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Brian Butterworth <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> 2008/11/23 Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>
> >>> And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
> >>> legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
> >>> RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
> >>> faciliate copyright through DRM. If the iPod weren't DRM'd, iTunes
> >>> wouldn't have any sort of deal with the labels. AAPL doesn't make much
> >>> on iTunes (but that's slowly changing as its position grows ever more
> >>> commanding and the RIAA are aware and trying to mitigate this
> >>> somewhat). FWIW, apple also maintains the same position (despite iPod
> >>> DRM annoyances) though Jobs has been slightly more forward about this
> >>> position.
> >>>
> >>> What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?
> >>
> >> cf
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2007/02/bbc_backstage_p_1.html
> >>
> >>>
> >>> -- Aleem
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> > Another alternative universe moment...
> >>> >
> >>> >
> http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
> >>> >
> >>> > "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new
> Media
> >>> > Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the
> >>> > charms
> >>> > of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has
> >>> > always
> >>> > preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless
> >>> > understands
> >>> > the need for protections."
> >>> > ---
> >>> > Brian Butterworth
> >>> >
> >>> > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> >>> > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
> >>> > switchover
> >>> > advice, since 2002
> >>> >
> >>> -
> >>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
> >>> please visit
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
> >>>  Unofficial list archive:
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Brian Butterworth
> >>
> >> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> >> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
> switchover
> >> advice, since 2002
> >
> >
> -
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>

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[David Greaves]

Aleem B wrote:
> BBC is a public service so the issues don't really translate to
> Microsoft/DRM which is inclined to support DRM so it can sign deals with
> labels and sell their music players.

Unless the BBC uses MS solutions with their DRM systems that aren't turned off.
Which IIRC it did.

MS has a lot of employees - many have never liked DRM, many would bet their
future on it. En-masse I thinkg MS tends towards the latter rather than the 
former.

Even this interview which purports to show a bias to DRM-free concludes with
this quote from 'the exec':
  ""ultimately we'll come up with another generation of DRM where you don't have
to [go through such contortions,"


> Your original mail (and subsequent follow up) is classic flamebait
> --something you should avoid
> altogether.

Brian's original point contained a relevant news link and the email equivalent
of a raised eyebrow.

You suggested he was being alarmist.

His follow-on avoided a flamewar and pointed to a neat catalogue of previously
stated views. Your response was to try and inflame the thread. Please don't do 
that.

David
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Sean DALY]

Aleem, are you aware of the difficulties the BBC has encountered in
the iPlayer project after choosing Microsoft DRM to satisfy content
rights owners?



On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BBC is a public service so the issues don't really translate to
> Microsoft/DRM which is inclined to support DRM so it can sign deals with
> labels and sell their music players.
>
> Your original mail (and subsequent follow up) is classic
> flamebait--something you should avoid altogether.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> 2008/11/23 Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>> And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
>>> legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
>>> RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
>>> faciliate copyright through DRM. If the iPod weren't DRM'd, iTunes
>>> wouldn't have any sort of deal with the labels. AAPL doesn't make much
>>> on iTunes (but that's slowly changing as its position grows ever more
>>> commanding and the RIAA are aware and trying to mitigate this
>>> somewhat). FWIW, apple also maintains the same position (despite iPod
>>> DRM annoyances) though Jobs has been slightly more forward about this
>>> position.
>>>
>>> What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?
>>
>> cf http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2007/02/bbc_backstage_p_1.html
>>
>>>
>>> -- Aleem
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> > Another alternative universe moment...
>>> >
>>> > http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
>>> >
>>> > "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new Media
>>> > Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the
>>> > charms
>>> > of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has
>>> > always
>>> > preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless
>>> > understands
>>> > the need for protections."
>>> > ---
>>> > Brian Butterworth
>>> >
>>> > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
>>> > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
>>> > switchover
>>> > advice, since 2002
>>> >
>>> -
>>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>>> please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>>>  Unofficial list archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Brian Butterworth
>>
>> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
>> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
>> advice, since 2002
>
>
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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Aleem B]

BBC is a public service so the issues don't really translate to
Microsoft/DRM which is inclined to support DRM so it can sign deals with
labels and sell their music players.

Your original mail (and subsequent follow up) is classic
flamebait--something
you should avoid altogether.


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> 2008/11/23 Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
>> legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
>> RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
>> faciliate copyright through DRM. If the iPod weren't DRM'd, iTunes
>> wouldn't have any sort of deal with the labels. AAPL doesn't make much
>> on iTunes (but that's slowly changing as its position grows ever more
>> commanding and the RIAA are aware and trying to mitigate this
>> somewhat). FWIW, apple also maintains the same position (despite iPod
>> DRM annoyances) though Jobs has been slightly more forward about this
>> position.
>>
>> What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?
>
>
> cf http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2007/02/bbc_backstage_p_1.html
>
>
>>
>>
>> -- Aleem
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Another alternative universe moment...
>> >
>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
>> >
>> > "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new Media
>> > Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the
>> charms
>> > of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has
>> always
>> > preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless
>> understands
>> > the need for protections."
>> > ---
>> > Brian Butterworth
>> >
>> > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
>> > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
>> switchover
>> > advice, since 2002
>> >
>> -
>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>> please visit
>> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>>  Unofficial list archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002
>

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Fearghas McKay]

Brian

On 23 Nov 2008, at 09:57, Brian Butterworth wrote:


cf http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2007/02/bbc_backstage_p_1.html



Perhaps you could summarise your point rather than just point at a  
podcast discussion?


Thanks

f
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[backstage] Backstage logo design competition - have you entered yet?

[Rain]

Hi all

Wondering what to do on a chilly Sunday? How about creating your design for the 
Backstage logo competition!

Just a reminder that the t-shirt competition deadline is just a week away - the 
competition closes on Sunday 30th November.

In case you missed our original announcement (http://tinyurl.com/62esmj) here’s 
the details again:

The design for our present and most excellent Backstage t-shirt came from the 
Backstage community and we’d love it if you put your thinking caps on again and 
came up with a stunning, geeky, new logo to represent us. The reward will be 
the kudos of having your design on our next run of t-shirts and possibly some 
stickers and other schwag too!

The criteria for judging entries is:

A strong, imaginative design which:
· is modern
· embodies the spirit of backstage: geeky, open, fun and cool
· is simple and can be reproduced easily on print/TV/online
· is in CMYK or B/W and should not be more than two block colours
· is in 300dpi print resolution and in 72dpi screen resolution

For details about entering, please read the Terms and Conditions: 
http://tinyurl.com/5fum3g

Best wishes and good luck :-D

Rain


Rain Ashford | Technologist | http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/



  

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Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Brian Butterworth]

2008/11/23 Aleem B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
> legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
> RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
> faciliate copyright through DRM. If the iPod weren't DRM'd, iTunes
> wouldn't have any sort of deal with the labels. AAPL doesn't make much
> on iTunes (but that's slowly changing as its position grows ever more
> commanding and the RIAA are aware and trying to mitigate this
> somewhat). FWIW, apple also maintains the same position (despite iPod
> DRM annoyances) though Jobs has been slightly more forward about this
> position.
>
> What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?


cf http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2007/02/bbc_backstage_p_1.html


>
>
> -- Aleem
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Another alternative universe moment...
> >
> http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
> >
> > "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new Media
> > Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the
> charms
> > of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has always
> > preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless
> understands
> > the need for protections."
> > ---
> > Brian Butterworth
> >
> > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
> switchover
> > advice, since 2002
> >
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>



-- 

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002

Re: [backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Aleem B]

And why shouldn't they? They don't make money off DRM'd content but
legally they are obliged, not to mention the strong lobby of the
RIAA/MPAA has ensured that all major music players in the market
faciliate copyright through DRM. If the iPod weren't DRM'd, iTunes
wouldn't have any sort of deal with the labels. AAPL doesn't make much
on iTunes (but that's slowly changing as its position grows ever more
commanding and the RIAA are aware and trying to mitigate this
somewhat). FWIW, apple also maintains the same position (despite iPod
DRM annoyances) though Jobs has been slightly more forward about this
position.

What do you find so alarming about their stance on DRM?

-- Aleem



On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Brian Butterworth
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Another alternative universe moment...
> http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823
>
> "At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new Media
> Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the charms
> of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has always
> preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless understands
> the need for protections."
> ---
> Brian Butterworth
>
> follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
> web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002
>
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
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[backstage] Microsoft says it 'has always preferred' DRM-free content

[Brian Butterworth]

Another alternative universe moment...

http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_says_it_has_always_preferred_DRMfree_content/1227222823

"At a Media Center-centric event here Wednesday, Microsoft's new Media
Center marketing manager Mike Seamons, charged with demonstrating the charms
of the Windows 7 version of Media Center, said that "Microsoft has always
preferred DRM-free" content, adding that the company nonetheless understands
the need for protections."

---

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002

Re: [backstage] No more Lively

[Brian Butterworth]

Not really a surprise, Lively was brain-dead...

2008/11/20 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> From Slashdot,
>
> "In a surprise move, Google announced today, both on-site and in its blog,
> that it will permanently shut down its 3D virtual world, Lively, by the end
> of the year. This makes Lively one of Google's few scrapped products, and
> one of the most short-lived, too, barely lasting 6 months. No official
> reason was given, only that Google wants to 'prioritize [its] resources and
> focus more on [its] core search, ads and apps business.' Lively might have
> taken too much and given back too little, even by Google's standards."
>
> 
>
> Got to say I'm hardly surprised... Now I wonder about all those people who
> built stuff and used it for business (if at all).
>
> Ian Forrester
>
> This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable
>
> Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
> Room 1044, BBC Manchester BH, Oxford Road, M60 1SJ
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> work: +44 (0)2080083965
> mob: +44 (0)7711913293
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>



-- 

Brian Butterworth

follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist
web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
advice, since 2002