Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Richard P Edwards wrote: I would love to know who it was that decided to make the two systems incompatible.. I found the Wikipedia pages on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD quite informative when I was trying to find out the answer to the same question a couple of weeks back: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-DVD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_definition_optical_disc_format_war The train of events on pages pretty much matches up, which makes me think it might be vaguely reliable :) --billy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 25/02/2008, David Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 08:03 +, Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why don't you just write it to a BR disc for yourself? You bought it, after all -- surely you have a right to _use_ it? It is the same MPEG4 format anyway. I see that Microsoft have dumped HD-DVD now, so Auntie can't be far behind. http://www.betanews.com/article/Xbox_360_HD_DVD_drive_gets_the_axe/1203972030 -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Richard P Edwards wrote: I would love to know who it was that decided to make the two systems incompatible.. once again, if that hadn't have happened HD-DVD could have still lost, but without the public's purchases becoming pretty much obsolete, and the hardware would still have a market. Where's the fun in a format war where the formats are compatible? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Yep, I have to agree. LOL Rich On 25 Feb 2008, at 17:13, Steve Jolly wrote: Richard P Edwards wrote: I would love to know who it was that decided to make the two systems incompatible.. once again, if that hadn't have happened HD-DVD could have still lost, but without the public's purchases becoming pretty much obsolete, and the hardware would still have a market. Where's the fun in a format war where the formats are compatible? :-) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 14:13 +0100, Sean DALY wrote: Concerning physical records, I feel the same way. I buy few items online, not only because of the silly DRM, but because managing storage and backups is a headache. I still prefer to buy real CDs, partly because they _become_ the backup -- and can be used by She Who Must Be Obeyed without having to deal with the computer (although of course they all end up on the computer too). Also, a lot of the time we buy CDs for each other, and a tangible object is definitely better there. I wonder what proportion of CDs are bought as presents? -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Also, a lot of the time we buy CDs for each other, and a tangible object is definitely better there. I wonder what proportion of CDs are bought as presents? buzzwords The industry itself readily acknowledges that the vast majority of CD purchases are from the demographic who buy one, maybe two CDs a year, and that's why they capitalise on the cross-selling opportunities presented by industry events like the BRITs and NME Awards - to try and coax people into the shops to buy more product who otherwise wouldn't necessarily even consider it. /buzzwords Still, most CDs are gifts - be they mother's day, father's day, Christmas, Easter, birthdays... One look at Music Week's product features whenever a seasonal buying period is upon us really brings home just how key these 'holidays' are for those themed and compilation releases. I buy probably one or two CDs a year, if that, but I buy a barrowload of vinyl every year. I'm a bit odd though. ;) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Sun, 2008-02-24 at 18:00 +, Christopher Woods wrote: I buy probably one or two CDs a year, if that, but I buy a barrowload of vinyl every year. I'm a bit odd though. ;) Maybe - I get more vinyl every month, but I haven't bought a CD for ages. SACDs are tempting, sounding far better than CDs, but there are few new releases, so rather than buying a player this year, I think I'll invest in a better gramophone for my 78s :-) - Richard - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Maybe - I get more vinyl every month, but I haven't bought a CD for ages. SACDs are tempting, sounding far better than CDs, but there are few new releases, so rather than buying a player this year, I think I'll invest in a better gramophone for my 78s :-) The ELP Laser Turntable is your friend. I have the demo CD and frankly I think it sounds gorgeous (a lot of preparatory work but the sound - wow!) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Sun, 2008-02-24 at 23:39 +, Christopher Woods wrote: Maybe - I get more vinyl every month, but I haven't bought a CD for ages. SACDs are tempting, sounding far better than CDs, but there are few new releases, so rather than buying a player this year, I think I'll invest in a better gramophone for my 78s :-) The ELP Laser Turntable is your friend. I have the demo CD and frankly I think it sounds gorgeous (a lot of preparatory work but the sound - wow!) I've listened to the laser turntables on LPs, but not 78s - they really did sound excellent, though not the best I've heard. I know that on 78s they give the choice of either side of the groove, meaning you can play back the least worn side of the channel - another bonus. However I don't intend to spend a five figure sum on such a beast when I have the chassis of a perfectly good Goldring Lenco, just waiting for me to find time (and the right piece of marine ply) to build it a plinth. Still, I note the ELP is coming down in price - and I can resist anything except temptation. ;-) - Richard -- Morris Minor Convertible for sale: www.goodgnus.org/mmconvertible4sale/ http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/29129 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 08:03 +, Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why don't you just write it to a BR disc for yourself? You bought it, after all -- surely you have a right to _use_ it? -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? On 21/02/2008, Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually one of those 8 title hits when you do a search is HD-DVD (Planet Earth appears twice). The BBC have been pretty good on making sure both formats are supported equally with the extremely limited releases they've made to date. There was one title in the original batch of releases (The Tudors Season One) that was Blu-Ray only but that's because it was actually put out by Sony and not the Beeb. Sony were obviously never going to put out a title on the rival HD-DVD format. Now that the last two HD-DVD exclusive hold-outs (Universal and Paramount) have announced they're moving to Blu-Ray I think there's litte doubt that the Beeb will do the same when their next batch of titles are announced. Ian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Sparks Sent: 21 February 2008 22:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Thursday 21 February 2008 13:41:21 Andy wrote: A more important question is will the BBC be providing it's programs on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD? BBC Shop has 8 titles as blu ray 7 as HD DVD. cf : http://www.bbcshop.com/ (search for Blu ray and HD respectively (note quotes round blu ray :) ) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Why would they? What's the money sense to them? They won. They need to look at how to get people still buying regular DVDs to start buying BlueRay. People who buy HD-DVD are already up for buying into next-gen stuff. No busines is going to trade HD-DVD for BR either, unless say... HMV want to shift a bunch of PS3s perhaps (hey, buy a PS3 and we'll trade in 3 of your HD-DVDs for BR versions free!). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'. Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under their TV would want a PS3 instead though. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'. Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under their TV would want a PS3 instead though. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How many people bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format wouldn't have gone belly up. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'. Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under their TV would want a PS3 instead though. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
These are all good points - I like the idea of the HD-DVD trade in when you buy a playstation 3. I haven't got either format yet - I have an HDTV, but at the moment use it more as a PC screen than anything :\. Might get a blu-ray drive for my PC. What about the rumours of a blu-ray drive for the 360 emerging in a few months? It's all hear-say but I can't tell what marketing Microsoft may pull out of their hats considering the shift in attention to bluray. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How many people bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format wouldn't have gone belly up. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'. Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under their TV would want a PS3 instead though. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Toshiba seem to have a bigger game plan. http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUST28617520080220 You have to love the timing. On the same day as they effectively lose one battle, they amortise some of their losses with an extra $800 million investment. The better Sony do now, the bigger cut Toshiba get. I would love to know who it was that decided to make the two systems incompatible.. once again, if that hadn't have happened HD-DVD could have still lost, but without the public's purchases becoming pretty much obsolete, and the hardware would still have a market. There are probably more than 100,000 unsatisfied European customers at the moment, by the figures on the net. http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3LIL6dBGDGSJKaC2z7Z0mnBrZow Rich P.S. Good to see that the BBC are over their Rights Holders licensing issues! :-) http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080219/wr_nm/bbc_apple_dc On 22 Feb 2008, at 12:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How many people bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format wouldn't have gone belly up. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'. Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under their TV would want a PS3 instead though. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Or reuse -- think of DAT, which the music industry succeeded in killing as a consumer format in the late 80s and was relegated to recording studios, but which got a new lease on life as a SCSI data backup format. The original CD-Audio Red Book gave rise to the CD-ROM XA Yellow Book after all (multisession and strengthened data correction). On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Fearghas McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? I don't think HD-DVD machines have suddenly stopped working. As others have said - why should they because they supplied content to you in the format of your choice change it because the supply chain of suitable players may run out at some point in the future? If you are an early adopter of a competing technology you are probably aware of the risks of being left in a cul de sac hardware wise, but the device doesn't just stop working overnight. f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? I don't think HD-DVD machines have suddenly stopped working. As others have said - why should they because they supplied content to you in the format of your choice change it because the supply chain of suitable players may run out at some point in the future? If you are an early adopter of a competing technology you are probably aware of the risks of being left in a cul de sac hardware wise, but the device doesn't just stop working overnight. f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
But I'm not buying them. I buy a piece of paper which entitles me to watch this stuff (and I can keep copies of the ephemeral stuff if I wish, in the formats I choose, to watch when I choose). Which admittedly looks a little like a DRM scenario but gives me rather more choice and the option to maintain a physical artefact if I so wish. I'm saying that *I* feel comfortable having a tangible object. YMMV. Perhaps the lack of tangibility is one reason why some people (not me) don't ascribe much value to what the BBC do and feel the need to snipe. Those who pay the rental for a sky box can at least see the Murdoch festering box squatting in the corner From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:47 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 21/02/2008, Darren Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of this is true enough, but (and there's always a but) you still have the physical artefact, don't you? Even if it's gaffer taped with a hundred others, you still have the physical object you shelled out your money for. The digital stuff is, by your own admission, descended from the objects. Brands may be virtual but I for one prefer to buy the disc. Why? Because there's something tangible to show for the transaction after completion, not something ephemeral that is rather difficult to pin down. There is something that is identifiable as being of worth. No, I gave away all 486 Star Trek and 150+ Dr Who videos. I no longer need a loft to keep them in. However I find it interesting that you link something that is identifiable with being of worth. So the three billion Auntie spends on telly, radio and downloads has no worth, by your definition. I suspet that the linkage you state is not real, and is simply a matter of faith to people who used to make money from it. It's a bit like when CDs started and people said they would never catch on because people NEEDED gatefold and poster sleve, that CD cases were too small and so on. Just the Satus Quo, the status quo becomes old hat. I love seeing all the old pre-war cars doing the London to Brighton run, but people wouldn't rush out to buy them... That's not to say I don't buy the ephemeral stuff - I have purchased stuff on my iPod - but I am certainly more cautious about buying items that way. How unusual I am I can't say. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:08 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 20/02/2008, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com http://www.orb.com/ ) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
All of this is true enough, but (and there's always a but) you still have the physical artefact, don't you? Even if it's gaffer taped with a hundred others, you still have the physical object you shelled out your money for. The digital stuff is, by your own admission, descended from the objects. Brands may be virtual but I for one prefer to buy the disc. Why? Because there's something tangible to show for the transaction after completion, not something ephemeral that is rather difficult to pin down. There is something that is identifiable as being of worth. That's not to say I don't buy the ephemeral stuff - I have purchased stuff on my iPod - but I am certainly more cautious about buying items that way. How unusual I am I can't say. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:08 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 20/02/2008, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change for ages. I recon that if we are going to run out of the oil and stop killing the planet, then the easiest thing for people to give up is buying data stamped onto heavy plastic carted around by lorry. It's just so unnecessary! If you are investing, invest in fat datapipes not past-it plastic. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/19/musicnews.netmusic?gusrc= rssfeed=technology Cheers zIan Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] k/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Concerning physical records, I feel the same way. I buy few items online, not only because of the silly DRM, but because managing storage and backups is a headache. I concur with Richard's comments that consumers are just putting it all on computers, but every consumer I know has difficulty keeping track of what they have and where it is. Computers grow old and die when they are not stolen, and forums are full of panicked people realizing that they have lost all their music, photos, etc. or are blocked because they can't figure out how to transfer everything. In that regard I was very impressed with the native Apple OSX migration utility which clones everything -- data, applications, configurations, accounts and rights -- to a new machine automatically over firewire. Just be sure to do it before the old machine dies... There are user-friendly backup solutions coming online, but local search still has a ways to go in indexing metadata across formats. I suspect that lots of today's ephemeral data will be difficult to view or listen to years later. If local data is DRM'd, one may as well accept that it will have no longevity whatsoever. My friends who are recording studio owners are doing offline backup with client-specific external hard drives, they have become so affordable that they just bill the client for one, throw everything on there when the project is done, and label it with the client's name. Firewire and USB will be around for long enough I suppose. For longevity, portability, and ruggedness, I vote for books and discs. On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Darren Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of this is true enough, but (and there's always a but) you still have the physical artefact, don't you? Even if it's gaffer taped with a hundred others, you still have the physical object you shelled out your money for. The digital stuff is, by your own admission, descended from the objects. Brands may be virtual but I for one prefer to buy the disc. Why? Because there's something tangible to show for the transaction after completion, not something ephemeral that is rather difficult to pin down. There is something that is identifiable as being of worth. That's not to say I don't buy the ephemeral stuff – I have purchased stuff on my iPod – but I am certainly more cautious about buying items that way. How unusual I am I can't say. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:08 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 20/02/2008, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change for ages. I recon that if we are going to run out of the oil and stop killing the planet, then the easiest thing for people to give up is buying data stamped onto heavy plastic carted around by lorry. It's just so unnecessary! If you are investing, invest in fat datapipes not past-it plastic. http
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
I'd agree a virtual item is a harder sell, but perhaps no more than real items being sold through an e-tailer used to be. Remember in the 90's/early 00's when everyone was talking about the big bad security fears of tapping your credit card number into a website? You hardly even think about this now right? Because you do it so often... Perhaps the purchase of virtual goods (which may seem alien and uncomfortable to the average punter now) will eventually be as acceptable as ordering something physical once the consumer is used to it and the tech is more friendly. There is lots of money to be made, so the market will sort it out one way or another. This is all just my personal opinion :-) J On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Darren Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of this is true enough, but (and there's always a but) you still have the physical artefact, don't you? Even if it's gaffer taped with a hundred others, you still have the physical object you shelled out your money for. The digital stuff is, by your own admission, descended from the objects. Brands may be virtual but I for one prefer to buy the disc. Why? Because there's something tangible to show for the transaction after completion, not something ephemeral that is rather difficult to pin down. There is something that is identifiable as being of worth. That's not to say I don't buy the ephemeral stuff – I have purchased stuff on my iPod – but I am certainly more cautious about buying items that way. How unusual I am I can't say. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:08 PM *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 20/02/2008, *Ian Forrester* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change for ages. I recon that if we are going to run out of the oil and stop killing the planet, then the easiest thing for people to give up is buying data stamped onto heavy plastic carted around by lorry. It's just so unnecessary! If you are investing, invest in fat datapipes not past-it plastic. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/19/musicnews.netmusic?gusrc=rssfeed=technology Cheers zIan Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 20/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I buy virtually all my music as CDs, but then rip them to play them how I want to play them. There is a widely held belief that ripping CDs may actually be illegal in the UK. The Gower's report recommended allowing private copying by 2008[1]. However only for format shifting and only for 1 copy. Oddly in the review the example of CD to MP3 player was used. How on earth you can do that without moving it to the PC and then to the MP3 player (i.e. copying twice) is unclear. If I can buy non-drm/tied music/films, I will. Can't help with films, but play.com sell non-DRMed MP3 music[2] (selection isn't exactly massive, but give it time.) Oddly it's cheaper than iTunes. Who in there right mind would pay extra just to get DRM on the stuff they buy? Brian Butterworth wrote: By 2015 the nets going to be 100s of Mb/s I wouldn't have thought it should take that long, Japan has 100,000 kbps (nearly 100Mbit) for just 36.58$US[3]. Same speed for upload. And no bandwidth cap. In contrast in the same report it listed the speed of the UK's Incumbent DSL provider as just 2200 kbps (down), 256 kbps (up) with 15GB cap priced at 45.17$US. (Note figures are based on a report written in 2005, so speeds may have increased) A more important question is will the BBC be providing it's programs on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD? Will Microsoft cut their losses and run or will they use their immense capital to push HD-DVD harder now? Personally I have no problem with using ordinary DVDs, the fact I don't have a HD TV might be a considerable factor though! DVDs won't go away soon, they still have uses, if only for backup and archive (though many people use a second drive or some kind of network storage). There is something to be said for having a physical copy as opposed to a download. If I have the physical copy I know it can not be taken from me remotely (at least not with DVD). Someone may break into my house or it might burn down but you can insure against that. How many insurance companies will insure your iTunes collection on your PC? (Serious question, how will the increased value of digital data on PCs in the home affect the insurance market? Will we start seeing insurance for data, will we see insurance companies offering discounts for secure systems like the do if your property has good quality locks and alarms?) It's easier to take stuff away from you remotely with downloads. Viruses can erase entire drives (not often done, thankfully) however DDoS attacks against big vendor do happen, so how long till someone tries to blackmail Apple (iTunes) with pay up or we'll wipe your customers music collections and license files*? Add to that the fact that Hard Disks do crash from time to time and filesystems do get corrupted then downloads are currently risky business. At least if we get a private copy exemption it will make backup easier but DRM screws that up. Suddenly you don't just need the audio/video file you need the license. And some licenses are tied to a physical machine so when its destroyed and you replace it the files could be useless. * Would we know if this had already happened? Andy References: [1] Gowers Review of Intellectual Property ISBN: 978-0-11-84083-9 Available from: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/gowers_review_intellectual_property/gowersreview_index.cfm tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/bvds2 [2] Play.com Music Downloads http://www.play.com/Music/MP3-Download/6-/DigitalHome.html [3] Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Multiple Play: Pricing And Policy Trends, DSTI/ICCP/TISP(2005)12/FINAL (April 2006): Available from: www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/32/36546318.pdf -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Ian Forrester wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Are you sure it's a physical thing? Could it be that the early adopters saw the flaw in the plan? Why rent something that you could buy for the same amount or less? Why be dictated to about how many times and how quickly you could watch/hear something? So I bought a 100 Projector - and I should watch Pirates of the Carribean sitting on a stool in front of the PC screen in the study? You want me to listen to music on those tinny speakers? Car listening is verboten? So I need this program for that show, this other program for this tune, I need to upgrade my OS and then I can't play the game I bought last month - bugger off! I'm buying a DVD/CD/games console. Granted the public don't understand all/most of this - but there is *so* much wrong... What works for me: * Squeezebox : sleek and small. Plays mp3s that I rip and archive. * CDs : Higher quality than mp3, no DRM (it matters to me), integrated backup, lend/shareable. * MythTV frontends : small dedicated box in the lounge/bedroom - plugs into TV. Watch anything anytime. Download shows that have been broadcast and mis-recorded. * DVDs : High quality films/sound. Compact, work on my TV-box. Buy and anticipate. Plan and watch with friends. Integrated backup. lend/shareable. What doesn't work for me: * DRM music recorded at low bitrate that I can't listen to in the car or on my last-gen portable player or when the company goes under/changes it's mind. * Film download/playing applications that make the lounge feel like the office * Being told what I can do with something I bought * Not being able to buy a 2nd-hand CD/LP from the dawn of time What other non-physical/intangible items do people buy? Is online so different? * e-tickets * insurance * club/gym membership David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 21/02/2008, Darren Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of this is true enough, but (and there's always a but) you still have the physical artefact, don't you? Even if it's gaffer taped with a hundred others, you still have the physical object you shelled out your money for. The digital stuff is, by your own admission, descended from the objects. Brands may be virtual but I for one prefer to buy the disc. Why? Because there's something tangible to show for the transaction after completion, not something ephemeral that is rather difficult to pin down. There is something that is identifiable as being of worth. No, I gave away all 486 Star Trek and 150+ Dr Who videos. I no longer need a loft to keep them in. However I find it interesting that you link something that is identifiable with being of worth. So the three billion Auntie spends on telly, radio and downloads has no worth, by your definition. I suspet that the linkage you state is not real, and is simply a matter of faith to people who used to make money from it. It's a bit like when CDs started and people said they would never catch on because people NEEDED gatefold and poster sleve, that CD cases were too small and so on. Just the Satus Quo, the status quo becomes old hat. I love seeing all the old pre-war cars doing the London to Brighton run, but people wouldn't rush out to buy them... That's not to say I don't buy the ephemeral stuff – I have purchased stuff on my iPod – but I am certainly more cautious about buying items that way. How unusual I am I can't say. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:08 PM *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 20/02/2008, *Ian Forrester* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change for ages. I recon that if we are going to run out of the oil and stop killing the planet, then the easiest thing for people to give up is buying data stamped onto heavy plastic carted around by lorry. It's just so unnecessary! If you are investing, invest in fat datapipes not past-it plastic. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/19/musicnews.netmusic?gusrc=rssfeed=technology Cheers zIan Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
They've been equal in both formats so far - the 8th 'blu-ray' on that search is the HD Planet Earth. Many more to follow I'm sure - Life in the Undergrowth is bound to be impressive in either. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:56:26 + On Thursday 21 February 2008 13:41:21 Andy wrote: A more important question is will the BBC be providing it's programs on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD? BBC Shop has 8 titles as blu ray 7 as HD DVD. cf : http://www.bbcshop.com/ (search for Blu ray and HD respectively (note quotes round blu ray :) ) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ _ Get Hotmail on your mobile, text MSN to 63463! http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/mail.aspx
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Actually one of those 8 title hits when you do a search is HD-DVD (Planet Earth appears twice). The BBC have been pretty good on making sure both formats are supported equally with the extremely limited releases they've made to date. There was one title in the original batch of releases (The Tudors Season One) that was Blu-Ray only but that's because it was actually put out by Sony and not the Beeb. Sony were obviously never going to put out a title on the rival HD-DVD format. Now that the last two HD-DVD exclusive hold-outs (Universal and Paramount) have announced they're moving to Blu-Ray I think there's litte doubt that the Beeb will do the same when their next batch of titles are announced. Ian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Sparks Sent: 21 February 2008 22:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Thursday 21 February 2008 13:41:21 Andy wrote: A more important question is will the BBC be providing it's programs on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD? BBC Shop has 8 titles as blu ray 7 as HD DVD. cf : http://www.bbcshop.com/ (search for Blu ray and HD respectively (note quotes round blu ray :) ) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 20/02/2008, David Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. Or stop using DVDs. My Star Trek collection had the front- and end- titles removed. Who needs this junk? -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Is that right? These days doesn't everyone store their still pics digitally? Store their video camera clips digitally? Store their music digitally? I think the only thing that gets in the way is DRM. Downloading a movie/song often comes with DRM restricting usage to set players. With a CD/DVD you have more flexibility ... but that's the only thing I can think of. I buy virtually all my music as CDs, but then rip them to play them how I want to play them. I don't tie them to one media platform. But I don't really keep the physical format other than as a back-up. If I can buy non-drm/tied music/films, I will. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 20 February 2008 15:57 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
I totally agree, the winner are online video services. However there are few of them available. I am not sure if people any longer look so much at the physical aspect. In the case of CDs and DVDs they become so commoditized that I think people will no longer judge them as jems. The case of vinyls or books is different (particularly in the case of books, since it is a very old industry and therefore gives much variety). Actually I think that DVDs and CDs will end in the basement floor along with the Betamax and VHS tapes, very soon... best, jose-carlos On 20 Feb 2008, at 15:57, Ian Forrester wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/secretariat/legal/disclaimer.htm - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
At 13:18 + 19/2/08, Matt Barber wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Everything should be open. Just my two cents... Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
I think that if you compare Vinyl with anything round and shiny, CD's DVD etc... you have a point Ian. But every generation I know, from 72 to 11 year olds, is now just putting it all on computers. Today my mother came across your new BBC home page and was really excited about the iPlayer until I tried to explain why she can't access it from Spain, she is old! As far as I can see, the wider public have become consumers completely. With little intention of keeping physical packaging beyond the life of the product, which if you can transfer it, is very short with CD. A little harder with DVD, but we are trying ;-) Musically, the future for me is in mixing 5.1 or 6.1 mixes. Yes, everyone will have to own home theatres to hear how great it is but with the quality control, up to 96K sampling right now and the large size of files it will be a lot easier to control the delivery and copying through the net. In car this will be awesome to hear. In this sense I think the future is more about content than delivery. I don't see any good reason to buy Blu Ray. especially if I can legally torrent HD programmes sometime in the near future. I can get an Apple TV and loads of HD space for similar money. Regards RichE On 20 Feb 2008, at 15:57, Ian Forrester wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 20/02/2008, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change for ages. I recon that if we are going to run out of the oil and stop killing the planet, then the easiest thing for people to give up is buying data stamped onto heavy plastic carted around by lorry. It's just so unnecessary! If you are investing, invest in fat datapipes not past-it plastic. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/19/musicnews.netmusic?gusrc=rssfeed=technology Cheers zIan Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] k/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 20/02/2008, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20/02/2008, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Or, put it this way. In the late 1970s, home computers were the digital watch with it's battery-flattening LED display, the calculator and a TV game called Tennis (aka Pong). The game scored to 15 points because it was a FOUR bit processor. There was always Prestel, a acoustic-coupler version of Ceefax, a 40x24 display on a 1275 modem. That's 1200bps download, 75bps upload. You could store data on a compact cassette at perhaps the same 1200 baud, When I started at one school, they had TWO computers. An Apple ][ and a BBC B! The former had a printer and there were two games for it. My first network I set up was an Econet of BBC Micros. The server was a 10Mb Winchester drive. The whole school used it. The micros had 32K of RAM, 32K of ROM and a 8 bit CPU at around 1Mhz. The Econet network ran in up to a massive 100kbps! My first professional Netware installation was a Netware 3 one. By then the server had a 1Gb drive, the network was thick and thin 10Mb/s network. The WAN used Kilostreams at 64kps, and that led eventually the the Internet. As I recall those iMega 100Mb drives were all the rage. A few years later I used a Sun SparcStation to digitally record my first full audio track. I've still got the recording and I don't think it would past muster these days! When I start MP3ing all my CDs, I get a Rio 100. With 64Mb of memory! Ten tracks, if you are lucky, or double the RAM for £100. But even then my office 64kbps KiloStream to the Internet costs me £4000 a year! That's £173 a month for a service that is 1/32th the speed of a bog-standard 2Mb/s broadband you get for free (sort of) now. If you can't be persuaded by the science of climate change or peak oil, then if there is any better dead-cert it's Moore's Law. By 2015 the nets going to be 100s of Mb/s, it's going to be a question of how you can display all those 3D HD feeds at once! I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh. The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a false assumption. From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts does indeed go into selling things to people. However, the modern liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into promoting brands, which a not things, but virtual. It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in cyberspace. They have value only as something that is possessed by a company that hey can use. I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in. I gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago now. How many times have I unpacked them? None. I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can copy and play this (using www.orb.com) anywhere. It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos and all my thousands of photos. I can access all this lot from where ever with one remote control. I'm not alone. Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit van if it were on vinyl. Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft! Now I can have it all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. And if that's not enough. To quote from Down The Line, What is point DVD? The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in Science in Society, so I've known about the idea of peak oil and climate change for ages. I recon that if we are going to run out of the oil and stop killing the planet, then the easiest thing for people to give up is buying data stamped onto heavy plastic carted around by lorry. It's just so unnecessary! If you are investing, invest in fat datapipes not past-it plastic. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/19/musicnews.netmusic?gusrc=rssfeed=technology Cheers zIan Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Feb 19, 2008 1:18 PM, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. You know, I always read Blu Ray as Blur-ry... ;-) !! Not having big screen, DVD is more than good enough for me. How long will regular DVD last? Davy -- Davy Mitchell Blog - http://www.latedecember.co.uk/sites/personal/davy/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/daftspaniel Skype - daftspaniel needgod.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 19 February 2008 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Feb 19, 2008 1:42 PM, Davy Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 19, 2008 1:18 PM, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. You know, I always read Blu Ray as Blur-ry... ;-) !! Not having big screen, DVD is more than good enough for me. How long will regular DVD last? Davy -- Davy Mitchell Blog - http://www.latedecember.co.uk/sites/personal/davy/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/daftspaniel Skype - daftspaniel needgod.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ That's an interesting point. I think that while DVD production will continue for mainstream films for a long while - the long tail of niche and genre specific film will continue for even longer, because filming, mastering and producing for SD DVD is so much cheaper than HD right now. I got myself a HDTV last month and I'm really pleased with the quality of regular DVDs when played through an xbox360 connected via VGA, it upscales. From a consumer point of view, this news interests me because it helps me decide what HD format to go with if I were to buy a player. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices and it tries to thrust the 'don't copy videos' advert on to you. Why should any company have the right to stop you using your own DVD controls and force you to watch the messages it demands that you watch. It 'steals' your electricity and screen time to display its messages and if you tot up all the hours people waste waiting to have control over their DVDs then you realise that it wastes a lot of energy and is anything but green. Wonder why this imposition hasn't been challenged in the courts. It is a small but very annoying thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) Sent: 19 February 2008 14:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 19 February 2008 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices and it tries to thrust the 'don't copy videos' advert on to you. Why should any company have the right to stop you using your own DVD controls and force you to watch the messages it demands that you watch. It 'steals' your electricity and screen time to display its messages and if you tot up all the hours people waste waiting to have control over their DVDs then you realise that it wastes a lot of energy and is anything but green. Wonder why this imposition hasn't been challenged in the courts. It is a small but very annoying thing. Useful tip: Turns out that pirated videos don't have these annoying warnings on them, allowing you to go straight to the film after you pop it in the player and offering a far more pleasant viewing experience because of it. Now you'll know for next time ;) In all seriousness, who those messages are intended for is entirely beyond me. I even know the guy who cut together the original Pirated videos are low quality infomercial and the message I got is that it was no ones idea - it's just one of these things that got passed on and agreed by committee without any kind of sanity checking. It was originally a zero-budget one-off clip to be shown before (I think) LotR. As far as Blu Ray is concerned, it's pretty apparent to me that the manufacturers think the lack of uptake was down to the Blu Ray/HD DVD spat and not because people clearly have no need for either at present unless they have a full size cinema screen in their living rooms (which, granted, I'm sure some people do). The uptake of DVD was so rapid because people hated VHS. It was bad quality, it degraded over time, plus you had to rewind/fast forward on it, which was just annoying. DVD was a technology that was an obvious progression after the popularity of CD and is still of more than reasonable quality even for today's high spec TVs. There are no gaps in the market that Blu Ray is bridging. Iain - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On 19/02/2008, Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Is there HD Flash content on the iPlayer? I must have missed it. I've even typed HD into the search box a few times. Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* 19 February 2008 13:55 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, *Matt Barber* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
The deck makers don't mind giving you control, but the disc sellers do. That spam bit of FBI warning (means a lot in France) is Hollywood, terrified that they will suffer by not offering consumers what they want (cf.: the music industry). In both cases the basic model has been to upgrade physical record formats every few years then laugh all the way to the bank. They should have taken a clue from the failure of Super Audio CD. Consumers readily understand the advantages in investing in a new widescreen telly to better view their 80 or 100 DVDs, but the idea of replacing all those films yet again, after VHS (or Beta)?? On Feb 19, 2008 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices and it tries to thrust the 'don't copy videos' advert on to you. Why should any company have the right to stop you using your own DVD controls and force you to watch the messages it demands that you watch. It 'steals' your electricity and screen time to display its messages and if you tot up all the hours people waste waiting to have control over their DVDs then you realise that it wastes a lot of energy and is anything but green. Wonder why this imposition hasn't been challenged in the courts. It is a small but very annoying thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) Sent: 19 February 2008 14:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 19 February 2008 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
On Feb 19, 2008 3:51 PM, Sean DALY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The deck makers don't mind giving you control, but the disc sellers do. That spam bit of FBI warning (means a lot in France) is Hollywood, terrified that they will suffer by not offering consumers what they want (cf.: the music industry). In both cases the basic model has been to upgrade physical record formats every few years then laugh all the way to the bank. They should have taken a clue from the failure of Super Audio CD. Consumers readily understand the advantages in investing in a new widescreen telly to better view their 80 or 100 DVDs, but the idea of replacing all those films yet again, after VHS (or Beta)?? True that replacing all those films would be annoying - but the blu-ray/HD players are backwards compatible to DVD. That's the good thing about this particular evolution in format, is that the form factor has remained the same. I'm not sure about the cases however, they look like they might be a different shape? But anyway, it's a nicer transition than, say, to BETA, where we had a completely different tape etc. On Feb 19, 2008 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices and it tries to thrust the 'don't copy videos' advert on to you. Why should any company have the right to stop you using your own DVD controls and force you to watch the messages it demands that you watch. It 'steals' your electricity and screen time to display its messages and if you tot up all the hours people waste waiting to have control over their DVDs then you realise that it wastes a lot of energy and is anything but green. Wonder why this imposition hasn't been challenged in the courts. It is a small but very annoying thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) Sent: 19 February 2008 14:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 19 February 2008 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
I think one of the things that has been overlooked in this whole HD-DVD / Blu-ray debate is the audio side of things. DVD offered the vastly better Dolby Digital and DTS formats vs. Dolby Pro Logic offered by VHS. Blu-ray offers a slightly better version of the audio in terms of DD+ and DTS HD, but nothing like the change from video to DVD - another reason in my eyes why people won't invest fully in Blu-ray just yet and will be happy to stick with DVD. Chris On 19/02/2008, Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of Joe Public seem happy to watch 4:3 pictures stretched to widescreen or watch fuzzy YouTube videos on laptops, so upgrades to high definition over DVD is always going to be a harder sell than DVD was over VHS. For most folks the increase in quality isn't obvious. As for the cases - just as in the early days of DVD they're all over the place. MOST are about an inch shorter than DVD but in the UK instead of taking the States lead of making them MUCH slimmer (so you can actually stash a lot more of them into limited shelf width) they've kept the same width as the old DVD. That's what happens when European marketing decide to do their own thing :( (apparently someone decided the thinner cases made the new, more expensive format look cheaper than the old format so changed it for Europe) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 19 February 2008 16:35 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Feb 19, 2008 3:51 PM, Sean DALY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The deck makers don't mind giving you control, but the disc sellers do. That spam bit of FBI warning (means a lot in France) is Hollywood, terrified that they will suffer by not offering consumers what they want (cf.: the music industry). In both cases the basic model has been to upgrade physical record formats every few years then laugh all the way to the bank. They should have taken a clue from the failure of Super Audio CD. Consumers readily understand the advantages in investing in a new widescreen telly to better view their 80 or 100 DVDs, but the idea of replacing all those films yet again, after VHS (or Beta)?? True that replacing all those films would be annoying - but the blu-ray/HD players are backwards compatible to DVD. That's the good thing about this particular evolution in format, is that the form factor has remained the same. I'm not sure about the cases however, they look like they might be a different shape? But anyway, it's a nicer transition than, say, to BETA, where we had a completely different tape etc. On Feb 19, 2008 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices and it tries to thrust the 'don't copy videos' advert on to you. Why should any company have the right to stop you using your own DVD controls and force you to watch the messages it demands that you watch. It 'steals' your electricity and screen time to display its messages and if you tot up all the hours people waste waiting to have control over their DVDs then you realise that it wastes a lot of energy and is anything but green. Wonder why this imposition hasn't been challenged in the courts. It is a small but very annoying thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) Sent: 19 February 2008 14:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 19 February 2008 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber
