Re: UN Adopts Historic Statement on Native Rights

2007-09-19 Thread popeyesays
It's an interesting question and totally unenforcable as law. Who is indigenous where and what percentage of indigenous descent is critical to the rights granted. I am, by descent, Blackfoot Indian, Scots, Irish and Welsh--but that's how far back. I would postulate that many of us if not most o

Re: Majority decisions

2007-09-15 Thread popeyesays
The real answer is "Yes." Any assembly can reconsider it's decisions. An assembly should support unanymity. Any bad decisions will make themselves apparent, a responsible assembly is responsible for recognizing that as soon as possible. Military SF technothriller, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book

Re: Wikipedia article on Baha'u'llah

2007-08-20 Thread popeyesays
The internet has changed things a lot including the usefulness of sending the photos to the National or world center. The internet is not even put through review like printed books, video and film. No matter how many times you mail it in, it's still there on the internet. That Wikipedia has mad

Re: Wikipedia article on Baha'u'llah

2007-08-19 Thread popeyesays
We are not supposed to display it because we cannot guarantee the proper respect and spiritual attitude of those who view it. You can look at it, there is no sin involved. I would suggest you actually review what the Guardian and the House have to say rather than depending upon "The Book of Hea

Re: Infallibility of the Prophets

2007-08-13 Thread popeyesays
Abdul Baha covers the apparent rebukes of the Prophets in Some Answered Questions. I am just going to quote the first paragraph, you can look up the essay for yourself. "EXPLANATION OF THE REBUKES ADDRESSED BY GOD TO THE PROPHETS Question. -- In the Holy Books there are some addresses of reproa

Re: Infallibility of the Prophets

2007-08-13 Thread popeyesays
Dear Susan, Actually King David lived long after Moses was gone. Regards, Scott Military SF technothriller, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book from http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached (later in the year in print) Erotic

Re: Prayer Request

2007-07-30 Thread popeyesays
My friend, All healing comes through God whether the skill of a physician is the instrument or prayer. I have added your daughter to my list and will pass her name along to others in my community. Here's a "Can't Hurt" step: 1) Run off a copy of the Long Healing Prayer and put in her nightstand

Re: New World Order

2007-07-23 Thread popeyesays
Woodrow Wilson was a great admirer of Kalil Gibran as were his daughters.When Wilson was first running for the presidency Abdu'l Baha was in the country and Gibran was a visitor to Abdu'l Baha. Kitab'i Hearsay credits the oldest Wilson daughter, Margaret as a Baha`i-though I doubt there was eve

Re: New World Order

2007-07-23 Thread popeyesays
Woodrow Wilson's daughter had some significant effect on Wilson's Fourteen Points and peace treaty opinions. She was a Baha`i. Regards, Scott Military SF technothriller, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book from http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html http://www.fictionwise.com/e

Re: Quran reading questions

2005-07-31 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 7/31/2005 2:12:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for the Bible, as you know, I know it. The stoning incident is animportant one. But I do not think your interpretation is viable. It isnot consistent with the rest of the New Testament.Je

Re: Quran reading questions

2005-07-30 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 7/30/2005 3:25:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am now thinking, Arberry sounds best, but this Rodwell, if he ischronological, woudl that help me to make more sense of the Quran? IsRodwell good in other ways? Rodwell was Shoghi Effendi

Re: Just governments...

2005-02-12 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/12/2005 6:47:44 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To be clear: the SA (Sturmabteiling) per se did not end in the Night of the Long Knives. Lutze was its next leader.  What ended was the SA as the Naziâs left, i.e. truly socialist wing, those, who like Roeh

Re: Just governments...

2005-02-12 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/12/2005 4:04:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Iâd be curious to know how many of  the men went into the German Wehrmacht, which was the one place a person could be beyond the reach of the Gestapo, the SA or the SS. Well, it was not entirely a safe pla

Re: Just governments...

2005-02-12 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/12/2005 1:54:35 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe I misunderstood the example from earlier. I thought the Guardianhad disbanded the community so that he wouldn't be disobeying. If theNazis asked him where the German Bahais were, he could have just sai

Re: Just governments...

2005-02-12 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/11/2005 9:46:34 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A government can be legally constituted with 37% or 44% of the vote if that's a majority. Look at us south of your border. Wrong terms! A majority is more than 50%. A PLURALITY is the most votes received eve

Re: Just governments...

2005-02-12 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/10/2005 10:21:43 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do not know howeverwhere the fine line is. We sometimes forget how powerful spiritual virtues canbe, how much influence they have on the hearts andsoul of human beings. And that the Bahai faith isessentia

Re: Islamic Prophecies and the Baha'i Faith

2005-02-11 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/11/2005 1:54:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know. I didn't ignore it. I just saw no need to respond. What kindof response did you want? I didn't mean to ask what YOU individuallywould do, but what the Bahai faith says you should do.> I said: That I

Re: Just governments...

2005-02-10 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/10/2005 5:33:11 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't that kind of sad? You see society crashing down and basicallyyou just sit out until something new comes along? We're promised that as the old order disintegrates, the new order is built up. In other wo

Re: Islamic Prophecies and the Baha'i Faith

2005-02-10 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/9/2005 10:14:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, and neither was the Allied effort against the Nazis, but that wasstill praised. It's not that the Bahai faith has a problem withviolence (and by that, I just mean that like many religions, its notabsolu

Re: Islamic Prophecies and the Baha'i Faith

2005-02-09 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/8/2005 3:46:56 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But its easy to say "I am the path". PeaceGilberto Its easy to say. But that is not meant to be the hard part. The hard part is "I will follow."   Regards,   Scott

Re: Islamic Prophecies and the Baha'i Faith

2005-02-09 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/8/2005 6:04:49 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sure, but those are still examples of obedience to the government.Would the Bahai faith similarly praise the French resistance forworking against the Nazis? Well, the French resistance was not a case of passi

Re: Abrogation

2005-02-07 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/7/2005 9:43:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: " Amidst the solitude of Máh-Kú and Chihríq, He had instituted HisCovenant, formulated His laws, and transmitted to posterity theoverwhelming majority of His writings. A conference of His disciples,headed by

Re: Abrogation

2005-02-07 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/7/2005 9:43:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "This Book at once abrogated the laws and ceremonials enjoined by theQur'án regarding prayer, fasting, marriage, divorce and inheritance,and upheld, in its integrity, the belief in the prophetic mission ofMuh

Re: Abrogation

2005-02-07 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/7/2005 4:01:26 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, I meant that on some level Bahais seem to be saying that Islam isno longer valid because of the state of the Muslim ummah. The Message and the Revelation will never be invalid. Though the Ulamah may indee

Re: Abrogation

2005-02-06 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/6/2005 2:24:15 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > You said earlier that you were touched by the words of Muhammed in the> Qur'an and found it more filling than those of the Bible. > Leaving aside for> a moment your criticisms of Christianity and the sacred

Re: Abrogation

2005-02-06 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/6/2005 2:24:15 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Baha`u'llah chastises the current Islamic leaders and > figures, but nowhere does He criticise Islam or Muhammed.Yes, that's what I had in mind when I said "ad hominem". Except Bahaisoften look at Muslims t

Re: The Three Quotations from the Guardian PDIC page 108, WOB page 57-58] [al...

2005-02-06 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/6/2005 6:15:20 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Confession is moreof a Catholic thing and not done so much by evangelicals. Confessions amongst evangelical non-Catholics takes the form of public "testimony" about their behavior before they committed thems

Re: Abrogation

2005-02-06 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/6/2005 11:51:27 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it isn't just a Muslim issue. I think Bahais are actually using adifferent form of logic and reasoning which other people aren't using.There are certain principles (or I might say fallacies) which seem t

Re: The Three Quotations from the Guardian PDIC page 108, WOB page 57-58]

2005-02-04 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/4/2005 7:14:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mark:> "Abrogation" refers to legislation. Main Entry: abÂroÂgatePronunciation: 'a-br&-"gAtFunction: transitive verbInflected Form(s): -gatÂed; -gatÂing Etymology: Latin abrogatus, past participle of abrogare

Re: Scope of the House of Justice

2005-02-01 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/1/2005 9:23:35 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Scott,The House of Justice is elected for the purpose of legislation. *All* ourour administrative institutions are expected to consult. Were this not trueof the Hands as well, Abdu'l-Baha would not have

Re: Scope of the House of Justice

2005-02-01 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 2/1/2005 8:19:46 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 2/1/2005 12:21:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Where else would the Guardian have found to consult on the future of the Guardianship?" The Hands of the Cause of

Re: Scope of the House of Justice

2005-01-31 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/31/2005 10:02:22 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Scott,If it were a matter of legislation it would be a matter of legislation withor without a Guardian.warmest, Susan The House is a consultative body. Where else would the Guardian have found to consu

Re: Scope of the House of Justice

2005-01-31 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/31/2005 8:54:21 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Scott,But there is nothing in the Will and Testament that indicates that the Househas anything to do with the issue of succession. That was supposed to bebetween the Guardian and the Hands. But successi

Re: Scope of the House of Justice

2005-01-31 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/31/2005 7:44:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Ahang,That's not how I recall his comments. My recollection is that he expected to*convene* the House of Justice, not just help with its election. I take thisto mean that he might very well have expecte

Re: More Nature of Morality was Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-31 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/31/2005 5:31:40 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The definition of existentialism you provided came from Sartre. However, if you are referring to Soren Kierkegaard, I agree with some of his views, including his rejection of natural theology. In my personal

Re: More Nature of Morality was Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-30 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/30/2005 12:52:43 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > That would be my view, yes. However, I assume you believe in contextualizing some sort of timeless (?) essentialist moralitySure. Except I'm not sure I can clearly even imagine the alternative.My understa

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-28 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/28/2005 12:10:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberto:It's not a hang-up. I'm perfectly happy to let the matter drop. I justwouldn't want to casually suggest that prophets might lie or commitidolatry. I do not think a Prophet ever lied. I believe they

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-28 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/28/2005 11:15:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But there was a verse revealed earlier that says: don't come to prayersessions when you are drunk. Quran 2:219 was revealed later; it was thesecond step and 2:219 was not (is not) a categorical prohibition

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 8:02:18 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No. That wasn't even the original point. The original point was how doyou evaluate prophets and think about sinlessness. I would say thatthere is a certain minimal core morality which is more fundamental and

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 7:25:27 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think you should talk to me like that. This is part of why Iwould rather use a more neutral example. I have absolutely no interestin marrying a nine-year old girl and as I said in my answer, I have n

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 4:39:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is going in circles. I would want to make a distinction betweenthe laws which people make up and the ones which God gives. Iunderstand that Bahais disagree. This is nothing new. People make laws modeled

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 2:31:41 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Which social laws? I don't think the Bible or the Quran given minimumages for marriage. Like I said elsewhere its not a question ofabsolute morality. The ordinary laws passed by current legislativebodies are

Re: infallibility

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 2:42:33 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Before folks jump all over me, let me say that this is all purely personalspeculations and I don't have an iota of texts to back it up. Well, I won't jump. It matches a lot of my feelings about it. Baha`u'll

Re: The Bab's wife

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 2:33:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's unfair or problematic about saying that people become adults atpuberty (more or less)? Because then everyone becomes an adult by their own internal clock rather than by the calendar. When dealingwith

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 11:20:51 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But at the same time I certainly am in favor of efforts to protectchildren from exploitation. And I think a totally reasonable way toprotect children in 2005 is to pass statutory rape laws, with certainage

Re: The Bab's wife

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 10:51:43 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So is there some powerful significant moral change which happens at15? Or is the year just arbitrary?PeaceGilberto It is also the age of maturity for responsibility for the fast and daily prayers, not just

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-26 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/26/2005 1:49:43 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The sources indicate that the nikah didn't occur until after puberty.In Islam, that's when a person becomes an adult. What other definitionof "woman" are you using? I think that by the peculiarities of the s

Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.

2005-01-25 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/25/2005 10:55:23 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberto:Ok. That makes more sense then if there actually is a specificstatement on the application of this law from the UHJ. But still, thisBahai country would at some point burn at least one person alive

Re: Arson

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 9:25:47 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Scott,   I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. If a house collapses the builder forfeits his life, for instance. A harsh punishment making sense in a particular society like laws against arso

Re: Arson

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 7:25:05 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Patti,   That's possible, but in cities like Constantinople at the time of Baha'u'llah a simple act of arson could have catastrophic consequences. As I recall much of the city burnt one year.   warme

Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:35:53 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:   Mark > I did not accept Baha'u'llah based on His character. In fact, I knew next to nothing about Him when I became a Baha'i in 1970. For whatever *reason*, my heart responded to His claim, and I recognized

Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:40:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look. All I'm really saying is that it is insulting to cast all sortsof negative aspersions on other religions for being split, when yourown religion has obvious splits. It's like this massive act of denial

Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 10:40:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't the French NSA approve of Remey's claims at the time? Werethere only 200 Bahais in France at the time? Five of the NSA voted to go with Remey. The Hands sent in a couple representatives and declared

Re: Arson

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 9:07:05 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:> But that's not even the main issue. The thing I'm having trouble> seeing from your perspective is why God would have mandated the> punishment to begin with? Even though I disagre

Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:53:18 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: HistoryAfter Charles Mason Remey's proclamation in 1960 that he was thesecond Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, his followers became known as theOrthodox Bahá'í Faith. Among those who accepted Remey's proclamatio

Re: Arson

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:38:50 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But if "good" is worth calling "good" then shouldn't it be independentof the prophet? God is the Source of All BOunty. The manifestation is the Revealer of God's Bounty. I avoid the term Prophet because I do

Re: Arson

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:33:48 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But that's not even the main issue. The thing I'm having troubleseeing from your perspective is why God would have mandated thepunishment to begin with? Even though I disagree with many of thethings you ment

Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.

2005-01-24 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/24/2005 8:11:22 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe that each Bahai has their own version of the Bahai faith. And it is the love each baha`i has in his heart for Baha`u'llah that keeps it united. The love expressed as trust in Baha`u'llah's laws,

Re: Past Revelations

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
Maybe you could wrap your text next time? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL

Re: Usama Bin Laden calls Mahmoud Abbas a Baha'i

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 7:21:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who is Mossad? MOSSAD is the Israeli CIA.   Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank em

Re: Perennial Bab?

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:28:28 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > 2. Over millennia, mankind has become better able to absorb aspects of reality. Gilberto:Sure, in terms of scientific and technical knowledge, ability tocontrol the physical environment. We've gotten bette

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 4:04:38 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I honestly don't understand what you mean. As an individual it seemslike you can have your own sense of right and wrong which might bedifferent from those of people around you. But I don't know what youmean

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 2:23:42 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's the question? That's the answer "pop" is one thing and "society" is another.   Regards,   Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:50:46 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberto:What is the distinction between popular conscience and social conscience? What's the differece between pop and sociology a sa study area?   Regard,   Scott __

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:50:46 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Scott:> The one thing we can accurately determine for> ourselves with no assistance is that our conscience judges our actions with> absolute accuracy. Gilberto:I'm not sure what you mean here either. If this

Re: Holy of Holies = Perennial Wisdom?,

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:59:19 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberto:That is factually incorrect. By alot."My people are hydroponic" I'll grant you Indonesia for sure. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto

Re: Holy of Holies = Perennial Wisdom?,

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 1:39:15 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Islam isn't just an Arab religion. Even before the time of the Bab,Islam spread to Persia, crossed the Sahara and went into Africa,Spain, the edges of France, Eastern Europe, China, Southeast Asia, ohand the

Re: Perennial Bab?

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 12:30:07 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > That seems to be the thinking of various Utopians from Plato to the Oneida> colony.Your point being? The ethos of Islam isn't to go around just lookin'for folks to punish.   I don't think it is. I don't th

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 12:18:42 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who is "they"? the closest grammatic reference - being from your statement: "Baha`i's". " Bahais tell Muslims what "Seal of the> Prophets" means, what the Apocalypse means, who the Mahdi is, how the> second

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 12:16:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, not at all. There is the example of the community of the prophetin the Medina and statements in the Quran, the hadith, the writings ofearly Muslims which discuss what it means to be a just ruler, and wh

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 12:11:24 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberto:But then the larger question is whether the present-day conscience" isactually a perfectly reliable guide? Can we even reliably determinewhat "the conscience" is saying to us? I mean, if everyone co

Re: Holy of Holies = Perennial Wisdom?,

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 2:25:12 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It seems like the Bahai faithdivides humanity up in different periods or dispensations. And duringa given period, everyone on earth should follow the particularmanifestation for that period. I think that is

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 11:22:28 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's EXACTLY, and I mean EXACTLY, what the Bahais do to Muslims.Despite what Muslims may say, Bahais tell Muslims what "Seal of theProphets" means, what the Apocalypse means, who the Mahdi is, how theseco

Re: Perennial Bab?

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 11:15:44 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it is possible to set up a society in such a way that keeping thelaw is easy and structure legal-police-justice system such it wouldonly rarely meet out punishments. That seems to be the thinking of var

Re: Century of Light

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 5:36:37 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Susan,   I thought the House is infallible on matters of legislation. Are you saying they are infallible on every decision they make?   Best regards, Firouz I think she was saying there is no "exhausti

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 2:45:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Personally, I think that it is possible to outline certain featureswhich constitute a "good government" but this should be independentfrom a particular ideology. Which is, of course, a product of western sec

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 2:32:15 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't believe that the actual nature of what is "brutal" depends onwhat date it is. It may depend on the actual realities of a givensituation but those don't just depend abstractly on the date. Forexample,

Re: Arson

2005-01-23 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/23/2005 2:32:15 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And since honest-to-goodness real live Muslim actually do believe thatthe Quran is applicable today then you are actually calling Islam asbased in the Quran "brutal". If the Shariah is enforced in a way to a

Re: Arson

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 11:49:38 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: G: Umm... given that prostitution is actually legal in most of the west(so people are actually quite happy to pay money to have it) howexactly is that whole fining process a deterrent?JS:  Doubling is the

Re: Holy of Holies = Perennial Wisdom?,

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:49:14 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberot:But unless you have a time machine,that justification doesn't do you any good.PeaceGilberto Its the only way to look at it. The past is studiable because it is the past. Once can barely keep up with

Re: Arson

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 10:16:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do the Bahai writings actually say that thepunishments found in the Quran are inhumane for the present day? Or isthat something you are just saying? The Baha`i Writings say that the social laws change from

Re: Century of Light

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 9:30:38 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there an exhaustive statement somewhere which explains thedifference between which actions, decisions, statements from the UHJare infallible (in which sense?) and which are not? The UHJ legislates, it doe

Re: Century of Light

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:58:17 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it was under the supervision of the house? The House commissioned it, the House did not write it. The House reviewed it, they did not write it. The House made a decision to publish a book on the topic, c

Re: Perennial Bab?

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:50:13 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Gilberto,     You'd probably have to find Nicholas' French translation of the Bayan. Baha'is haven't given a high priority to translating the Bab's laws since they are no longer considered binding.  

Re: Century of Light

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 6:48:21 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't the book the result of a decision made  by the House? No.     Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsu

Re: Century of Light

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 2:41:47 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So which statements are infallible? They have to be actually writtenby house members and approved by them as the house of justice? The House is infallible in its decision amking and consultation. The book wa

Re: Arson

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 12:09:24 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alot of the Islamic penalties can be mitigated as well. They aren'tapplied in a vacum. There are all sorts of exceptions, andrequirements and its a basic principle that you want to avoid applyingsevere puni

Re: Arson

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 11:58:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And even if the Bahai writings didn't say what they did aboutpunishments for arson, how can you believe the Quran comes from Godand at the same time call it brutal? I agree that it is specious to say "we do

Re: Arson

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 11:27:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wouldn't have the same respect for a Bahai who joined in on suchaccusations when their own scriptures don't seem to have a problemwith burning someone alive.Especially if we are talking about punishments

Re: Ruhi - a data point from Houston

2005-01-22 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/22/2005 10:32:19 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Sandra,I don't quite get that, nor have I seen anything like it in the lower 48. Myexperience is that children as young as 10 or 11 grasp how to do the basicexercises much quicker than the adults do, t

Re: Planned obsolscence

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:09:16 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Please do not lump us in a group like that.Sorry. I was being short-tempered.-Gilberto Its easy to get short-tempered in an all written forum. We cannot see each other's faces, judge each other's body lang

Re: Planned obsolscence

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 7:16:12 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You don't need to say it. I realized a very long time ago that Bahaisthink of previous religions as spoiled milk.PeaceGilberto Please do not lump us in a group like that.   Scott

Re: Ruhi - a data point from Houston

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 3:17:42 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Scott,   It strikes me that Ruhi is really ideal for older children and youth.   warmest, Susan It strucketh me that way as well, Susan. My daughter Juliet, my wife and myself were the first to take

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 9:40:41 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What practice is a part of proper "holy war" (not its distortions)which would be absolutely ruled out by the Bahai concepts ofcollective security, "righteous" warfare, and hikmat.In particular, why would the

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:33:49 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So are you saying that Christ already taught non-resistance. But thenunder Muhammad's dispensation the community progressed past it? Thenthe Bahai dispensation went backwards to what Christ taught? "> Hither

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:29:32 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you understand what I'm asking? Yes.     Regards,   Scott __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, sen

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:21:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you are just arguing about the "names" that seems an odddistinction to make. Actions are either right or wrong, regardless ofwhose "name" they've been done in.PeaceGilberto Here's the first couple paragra

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:17:16 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gilberto:Why isn't "Bahaullah and the New Era" "the writings"? That section also quotes a passage from Abdul-Baha which elaborates onthe concept in interesting ways as well. No, it is not. It is by a Baha`i

Re: Ruhi - a data point from Houston

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:04:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for me, I sat and suffered through one session of Ruhi and was ready to putgun to my head after that.  So it may not be for an old dog like me, but as Isaid it was God-sent for my son.Regards, Ahang.  My

Re: Bahai jihad? Re: Men and Women equal?

2005-01-21 Thread Popeyesays
In a message dated 1/21/2005 12:00:39 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are allowed to apply capital punishment according to yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "collective security" in yourreligion. You are allowed to engage in "righteous warfare" in yourreligion. I

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