That seems kind of interesting but I'm not sure I see all the
connections you are making. Between the Surah of the Cave in the
Quran, the Allegory of the Cave in Plato/Socrates and the Light from
John's Gosepl. It is interesting to try to see if they can mach up
together somehow. I guess its also h
> The other thing I wanted to add to this is that just as Bahais argue
> that "seal of the prophets" means something different from "last
> prophet" that "the word of God has no end" can also mean something
> different from "prophets will keep coming over and over like the
> Bahais say".
>
> Some r
Dear Khazeh:
You wrote to me:
> You then say dear Gilberto:
>
> And sometimes texts can be wrong
> and actually do say bad things.
>
> [kf would humbly reply].
>
> I cannot say that any utterance in the Holy Qur'an text is bad.
> Astaghfirullah I seek forgiveness from Its Divine Author.
Khaze
Dear Gilberto
My dear Brother
Re:
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43123.html
It is late in the evening here. After all my prayers and devotions I came to
switch off my computer and it said it has mail from Gilberto Simpson your
good self.
I thought I could answer it next weekend...but
> Dear Khazeh,
> ... as far as "spirit of enquiry" goes I'm not sure what
> you are hoping for. I ask questions. I'm looking at different facets of the
> Bahai faith. I'm forming opinions. I'm willing to reconsider my assumptions
> based on new data. If I don't necessarily immediately accept all o
"I've heard this accusation alot from Bahais but I don't believe it is
valid. I think there is a very big and clear distinction between
saying that God can't do something and that God didn't do something."
Dear Gilberto,
The Jews never said God couldn't literally do something. They were
basically
Dearest Gilberto
Before I go back for the next week to my work this servant of yours will
attempt to reply again to dissipate any misunderstanding. I have enjoyed and
truly enjoy your letters. Undoubtedly your love for Islam and
[Perennialism/Traditionalism] shines through.
I am all admiration
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 21:15:25 -0600, Don Calkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 9:43 PM -0500 1/2/05, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> >But then once you say that religions are "progressive" then you end up
> >ranking the religions according to how old they are and you can't help
> >but insult the religio
At 9:43 PM -0500 1/2/05, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
>
>But then once you say that religions are "progressive" then you end up
>ranking the religions according to how old they are and you can't help
>but insult the religions which came before.
>
Most of their adherents probably feel that way. But then
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 23:14:01 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto Simpson
> Today in your letter on the net
> http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43095.html
> you write:*
> To be honest, for me it isn't about liking or disliking the concept. I'm not
> saying
Dear Gilberto Simpson
Today in your letter on the net
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43095.html
you write:*
To be honest, for me it isn't about liking or disliking the concept. I'm not
saying that Islam is better just because there is this concept of al-insaan
al-kamil. I guess what I
What is the advice of the Universal House of Justice?
Dear John Smith
Cordially and humbly I would say the advice of the Universal House of
Justice is deducible in these lines They wrote some time ago. I was thinking
of these lines because of the way a Persian was said to write
**In your opennes
What is the advise of the Universal House of Justice?
Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear John SmithJohn Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]May my life be an offering for your kind words.Yes I am a Persian married to an Egyptian...But in relation to writing and style of writing this servant of y
> I feel very sad as I leave this discussion that after all my missives my
> brother Gilberto has not read the article this servant co-wrote on the
Seal
> of the Prophets...
>
> If he were to really read it without any preconception he would really
come
> to a different understanding.
That's not
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 09:48:46 -0800 (PST), John Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ***
> Gilberto, it doesn't seem like you are familiar with the Persian Language.
> It is very flowery. Reading Khazeh's writing styles is like listening to
> persians speaking among themselves, or like reading persi
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 12:09:22 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I feel very sad as I leave this discussion that after all my missives my
> brother Gilberto has not read the article this servant co-wrote on the Seal
> of the Prophets...
>
> If he were to really read it without a
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:59:59 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The
Prophet married her (by traditional accounts) when she was seven, but did not
consumate the marriage until she was eleven. That seems reasonable to me by
the standards of the time.
Dear Scott
In a message dated 1/2/2005 5:43:35 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That's actually kind of interesting. I honestly don't know what verseof the Quran one could site to say one thing or another about the ageof Aishah or her marriage to the prophet.A good article discussing thi
Dear John Smith
John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
May my life be an offering for your kind words.
Yes I am a Persian married to an Egyptian...
But in relation to writing and style of writing this servant of yours is
influenced [or hopes to be influenced by the Advice of the Universal House
of Justic
Gilberto (to Khazeh):
You are very welcome. And you are being way too exagerated in yourcomplements. It really isn't necessary. I would actually feel morecomfortable without such comments. I trust you have good intentionsand and are sincerely trying to be warm and friendly.
Gilberto (to Khazeh):
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 03:57:22 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For a non-Muslim hadith is confusing. There is no
> consensus as to which
> hadith are reliable and which are not.
One issue is that classification of hadith is more nuanced than
reliable/not-reliable. Shias have a
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 01:43:27 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:32 AM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> The Qur'an warns against hadith.
> Where does it do that?
>
>
> "Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and t
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 23:23:26 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:02:54 PM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Dear Scott,
> That is precisely Gilberto's point, that Muslims in rejecting any prophet
> after Muhammad are simply followin
" For a non-Muslim hadith is confusing. There is no consensus as to which
hadith are reliable and which are not."
Dear Scott,
There is a consensus, though it may not be based on the best criteria. But
hadiths are usually classed as 'sound' or 'weak' by virtue of their chain of
transmission.
"D
In a message dated 1/2/2005 1:24:13 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Scott,
I see you have been visiting Dr. Khalifa's website. ;-} I would be very careful with that material. He had his own agenda. These verses do not at all refer to the oral traditions of the prophe
I realize the English translation of those verses is different than I am
used to, but they are quoted from an Islamic site that does not credit
hadith in general.
Dear Scott,
Yes, I noted that. Rashad Khalifa led a "Qur'an alone" movement which
rejected the hadiths entirely. It made it possible f
Dear Scott,
I see you have been
visiting Dr. Khalifa's website. ;-} I would be very careful with that material.
He had his own agenda. These verses do not at all refer to the oral traditions
of the prophet. Hadith is a fairly common term meaning 'report.' You will note
that in this conte
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Qur'an warns against hadith.
Where does it do that?
I realize the English translation of those verses is different than I am used to, but they are quoted from an Islamic site that does not credit ha
In a message dated 1/2/2005 12:14:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Qur'an warns against hadith.
Where does it do that?
"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end o
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:57:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The
Qur'an warns against hadith.
Where does it do that?
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
To unsubscribe,
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:53:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Scott,What I don't get is what is your point here?
Well, it shows to me that Muhammed was well aware of the nature of a seal for authentication and validation. So it seems to me that using the term in d
Later in His life Muhammed found it necessary to conduct correspondence with
the Byzantines. They ignored letters that were not "sealed" a recognizable
seal being a sign of authoirty. It is recounted that Muhammed had a series
of ring seals made to authenticate His correspondence headed to Byzantiu
In a message dated 1/1/2005 11:33:07 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Huh?
I think Muslims put as much stake in what Muhammad supposedly said at His last sermon as they do that verse in the Qur'an.
Later in His life Muhammed found it necessary to conduct correspondence wi
In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:23:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
this was
right after Muhammed had developed a signet ring (Seal) for doing business
with Byzantium.
Huh?
I think Muslims put as much stake in what Muhammad supposedly said at His
last sermon a
In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:02:54 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Scott,That is precisely Gilberto's point, that Muslims in rejecting any prophetafter Muhammad are simply following what God said.
Of course, but Baha`u'llah's words about the next Prophet are much clear
Baha`u'llah does not "tie the hands of God" He says what God bids Him to
say.
Dear Scott,
That is precisely Gilberto's point, that Muslims in rejecting any prophet
after Muhammad are simply following what God said.
warmest, Susan
__
You are sub
In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:07:56 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If tomorrow, somebody came andclaimed to be the next Manifestation, obedient Bahais would oppose hisor her claim becaues the thousand years isn't up yet. If that personpointed out that both the Quran and the
Gilberto,
At 08:07 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>I think you are looking at only one side of the question and are hung up on
>>the word "prophet" (in order to make a seperate probably valid point). What
>>I'm trying to get across is just that Bahais, in their own way, are also
>>being restrictive.
In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:28:05 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That
strikes me as kind of an arbitrary distinction, especially in areligious
context. It's not like looking up who is next in the orderor succession
after vice-president or something. In a religi
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 20:00:48 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
> criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come
> no sooner than 1000 literal years after Bahaullah said is just as much
> an
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 19:10:55 -0600, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Gilberto,
>
> At 06:33 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
> >>Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
> >>criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come no
> >>sooner t
"Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come
no sooner than 1000 literal years after Bahaullah said is just as much
an example of "typing up God's hands" as saying that Muhammad (saaws)
was the last pr
Hi, Gilberto,
At 06:33 PM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>Saying that a second Guardian must necessarily satisfy certain literal
>>criteria in terms of bloodline or saying that a Manifestation can come no
>>sooner than 1000 literal years after Bahaullah said is just as much an
>>example of "typing up Go
Dear Khazeh,
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get across. I realize
that many prophets and messengers suffered, and were persecuted and
underwent many difficulties. All I'm saying is that suffering in
doesn't prove that one is a prophet or messenger.
Peace
Gilberto
On Sat, 1 Jan
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:37:51 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Then I'll just say that personally it comes off is really
> insulting,"
> Dear Gilberto,
> I'm sure the Jews find that statement in the Qur'an insulting > as well. In
> fact, I know they do.
That's fine. And if tha
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43042.html
Khazeh:
> The Abrogation of the Shari'ah is really within the Will [Mashiyyat] of t
he
> Supreme Ordainer, exalted be His Names and Attributes.
That's the claim you are making. And that's probably one of the
essential points of difference betwee
"hen I'll just say that personally it comes off is really
insulting,"
Dear Gilberto,
I'm sure the Jews find that statement in the Qur'an insulting as well. In
fact, I know they do.
When I was about seventeen. I took a class on world scriptures in college
and had been asked to lead a weekly disc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My dear Gilberto
>
Dear Khazeh,
> Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and
> love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the
green.
> I swear by God [God] this last point is not fair were you to have read and
>
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 22:25:37 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto
>
> I really liked your letter below. Truly one can say reading this that the
> Spirit of God working through your knowledge of the Islamic Dispensation has
> warmed your soul [Nafs] your spirit [Ruh.]
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 22:42:55 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My dear Gilberto
>
Dear Khazeh,
> Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and
> love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the green.
> I swear by God [Allah] t
My dear Gilberto
Everything you wrote is received by my mind and heart with affection and
love apart from your comment below re Baha'u'llah and not seeing the green.
I swear by God [Allah] this last point is not fair were you to have read and
seen what I have seen.
At least I could say in all h
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 21:17:12 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Khazeh:
> In one sense one should go beyond a discussion over Names. If you dear
> Gilberto wish to look at the Writings of Baha'u'llah as that emanating from
> a WALI then that is certainly a start.
Gilberto:
Bu
Dear Gilberto
I really liked your letter below. Truly one can say reading this that the
Spirit of God working through your knowledge of the Islamic Dispensation has
warmed your soul [Nafs] your spirit [Ruh.] and your mind ['aql]
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43042.html
We are learnin
Some descriptions I've seen of the concept of "Perfect Man" are rather
exalted. So even if Bahais might use the term a little more liberally
than the term Manifestation they seem to be rather similar. At least
from what I remember what you had actually said was that the term
"manifestation" was use
Dear Gilberto
After giving you my warmest I am just slowly going through your kind letters
and the part I think (!) by the grace of God I mar respectfully answer. (As
I was posting this I am in receipt of other letters from your productive pen
which I have to think about later tonight after prayin
In a message dated 1/1/2005 3:39:31 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberto:The point isn't that it is an argument against more manifestations (ormore precisely the non-finality of prophethood.). The point is that itis another way to understand the Quranic statements which s
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:11:57 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 2:04:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> And in fact, it is a
> mainstream theological claim the the physical universe doesn't have
> any staying power of its own and t
Fair enough. Then I'll just say that personally it comes off is really
insulting, especially when Bahais make not dissimilar claims about
what kinds of people God will or won't send in the future.
Peace
Gilberto
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:50:04 -0600, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "I've
"According to comments made by Susan in a different context, the
concept of Manifestation corresponds somewhat to the concept of
Perfect Man. And I would say that although Islam would say there
aren't new prophets after Muhammad, it is possible for there to be
"Perfect Men" after the Muhammad."
De
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:45:50 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Yusuf Ali]
> > 034.029
> They say: "When will THIS PROMISE (come to pass) if ye are telling the
> truth?"
> > 034.030
> > Say: "The APPOINTMENT TO YOU IS FOR A DAY, which ye cannot put
> > back for an hour nor pu
In the following Letter dear Gilberto you write:
*
Gilberto:
But assuming this is true, how do you distinguish between someone who
is validly changing the law (if such a thing is possible) and someone
who is illegitimately doing so?
Gilberto:
I understand that this is your opinion. All I'm
In a message dated 1/1/2005 2:04:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And in fact, it is amainstream theological claim the the physical universe doesn't haveany staying power of its own and that moment to moment to moment, Godis constantly recreating everything over and over ag
"I've heard this accusation alot from Bahais but I don't believe it is
valid. I think there is a very big and clear distinction between
saying that God can't do something and that God didn't do something."
Dear Gilberto,
The Jews never said God couldn't literally do something. They were basicall
Oops.
>>The Greater Occultation (al-ghaybat al-kubra) began after the death of the
>>third of the four abvab ("babs") - the intercessors between the Twelfth Imam
>>and Muslims.<<
The ***last***of the four abvab.
With regards, Mark A. Foster * 15 Sites: http://markfoster.net
"Sacred cows make
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 17:06:41 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
>
> In the above missive
> http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
>
> my dear Gilberto writes:
> In Islam, especially among Sufis if you think a
Hi, Gilberto,
At 10:46 AM 1/1/2005, you wrote:
>>It seems bizzare to say the dispensation of Muhammad didn't start until the
>>disappearance of the last imam.<<
It was the Lesser Occultation (al-ghaybat al-sughra), not the Dispensation of
Muhammad, which is believed to have started after the de
In
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43030.html
My brother Gilberto writes:
**"Dear Khazeh, when I read passages
like the above, they generally make
me think of my individual death. If they referred
mainly to
world-historical eschatological events then
it is only meaningful to a
[Yusuf Ali]
> 034.029
They say: "When will THIS PROMISE (come to pass) if ye are telling the
truth?"
> 034.030
> Say: "The APPOINTMENT TO YOU IS FOR A DAY, which ye cannot put
> back for an hour nor put forward."
Dear Khazeh, when I read passages like the above, they generally make
me think of
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
In the above missive
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43028.html
my dear Gilberto writes:
In Islam, especially among Sufis if you think about concepts like the
Perfect Man or the
Qut.b, in a certain sense Muslims might even recogniz
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 16:21:05 -, Khazeh Fananapazir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto
> I always read your emails with great interest and affection
Thank you.
> I read again what you write with great interest.
> The necessity for Progressive Revelation and the absolute
> need for th
In
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43013.html
Gilberto writes:
Gilberto:
Do you have any insight as to why that might be appealing? Personally,
I don't think the religion is so much about authority or that
individual anyway. I like religions more based on principles, like
Taoism and Bud
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