Re: [Blackbelly] The Blackbelly FB page

[Elizabeth Radi]

Google goat biology by Karen something. Can't recall her last name.  Gives the 
life cycles.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Rick Krach 
To: "blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info" 

Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] The Blackbelly FB page
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 18:27:52 +

Thanks Gail, can you give me anyplace to learn the actual way in which worms 
work and are controlled in animals? I need to learn how to recognize trouble 
before a sheep goes down, without using wormers preventively. 

Rick Krach -- via iPhone

> On Jan 10, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Gail Winnick  wrote:
> 
> A ewe is especially susceptible to worms after lambing.  Yes, I have seen
> wormer work in a day.  I always process my ewes right after lambing which
> includes worming, some nutri-drench and some vit e.
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Rick Krach  wrote:
>> 
>> Last week I put some pictures on the Blackbelly Facebook page of a ewe
>> which looked sick. I had some responses indicating worms so I did give some
>> Valbazen to her and her 3 week old lambs. I would like your opinion and you
>> could look at the Facebook page to see what was said. The ewe had a
>> somewhat bloated appearance and he was not eating or nursing for 2 days. I
>> also saw her struggle for several minutes to get some pee out, which was
>> thick and strangely colored. One lamb died that day.
>> 
>> One day after the Valbazen (yesterday) she was acting more normal and
>> today she is completely normal. Her bloated body is gone, she is much
>> thinner. Could this have just been too much stress for her trying to feed
>> three lambs considering her small stature. I find it a little weird that
>> worming medication could help her in only one day?
>> 
>> Rick Krach -- via iPhone
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help

[Elizabeth Radi]

what are you using for formula?  
If the scours are a greenish tinge, have them checked for coccidiosis.
I don't buy the powdered formula.  If you alter the formula ratio to water, you 
change the osmolality of the milk and could lead to scours.  I fed mine whole 
milk from the grocery store. They did great on that.  No mixing worries either. 
 Just my experience from the University of life. 

Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- evarojoe...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Lee Ann 
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800

My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and probiotics, and 
also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?

Sent from my iPad
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[Blackbelly] caseous lymphadenitis

[Elizabeth Radi]

Michael it is too good to be true.  correct me if I am wrong, but I remember 
hearing that the abscesses can be internal also.  Specifically inside the 
udders and shed the bacterium that way.  
Once you have CL in your heard, there is no easy fix.  I have also read that it 
can contaminate fence posts, feeders etc and lie in the soil for years.  I 
would like to write more on this, but am on my way to church.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Smith 
To: blackbelly 
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 21:00:44 -0700

they can get large, like the size of a plum cut in half and under the
skin. The are fairly firm. I have lanced one myself, it comes out like
white-grey  toothpaste and smells. The vet I have first thought this
one was not Caseous, because it stank. I think it was coincidence,
because it was close to the mouth and may have had some mouth bacteria
in it as well, that helped it stink. I am sure they were all Caseous.

I've done more searching today and read in more than one place about
people simply injecting the cyst itself with 1ml of formaldehyde
instead of opening them, draining, and cleaning the wound, and
expecting to disinfect everything that hits the ground. That treatment
regimen is in every "Scientific" report you can read on the web.   The
more home-spun formaldehyde approach reportedly kills the bacteria in
their protective cyst, causes the cyst itself to dry up (of course),
and eventually just fall off--harmless. Some breeders have reportedly
tried it on many animals. It sounds almost too good to be true, but,
since every other treatment involves exposing the area to tons of live
bacterium--I'll give it a try.  I've seen at least 3-4 of these cysts.
One is active now on a ewe and I might try the formaldehyde, the other
two on other ewes, one we treated, one we did not, and one on a ram,
which we got to too late and it had opened up, leaked out, and dried
up by the time we got to it. From my reading, if they are lucky, they
get one on the lower face and develop some form of antibodies for any
future infection.

I suppose one is lucky if they catch a real obvious cyst on the face
or elsewhere on the skin. Marley never showed any outward symptoms. It
ravaged his body internally.  Admittedly, with my new crazy-busy
position I took at my job, I'd been operating on auto-pilot and not
paying as close attention. He's always had strange issues with
shedding too early in the end of winter and having a not-so-marvelous
coat, so I became numb to trying to look for problems on him.

I've now identified one other ram in imminent danger--normally hearty,
he is also skinny, two more rams that might be in trouble, and two
ewes in serious trouble (one is very old), and two, who have had
cysts, I plan to isolate and treat them all with large doses of Pen-G
for 30 days.

The antibiotic regimen is a Hail Mary. Besides isolation, the papers
I've look up simply recommend culling for the truly infected. My local
sheep-herding Vet recommends it, because, I guess he has had some luck
with it. The woman vet I usually use-- knows this regimen from him.
She had not heard about the vaccine (efficacy of it is not really
entirely known--again, it causes a small case of it, and the animal
builds up antibodies), but I plan to try it ASAP and use it on any
lambs I have here from now on. It is NOT tested or developed for
goats. There's no vaccine for goats, yet. And I have 3 goats.

The biggest issue is: leaving a pasture alone for 8 months or more, to
try to let it no longer be infected. My property is too small to try
to do that. There's a central place with the shelter, water, etc, and
if the bacteria is present, it can thrive there.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies


On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Carol Elkins  wrote:
> Michael, I am so sorry you are having to go through this.
>
> Coryne psuedotuberculosis is the bacterium that causes the disease Caseous
> Lymphadenitis (CL) in sheep. There is no cure. See
> http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/caseous-lymphadenitis and
> other sources.
>
> An abscess on a sheep's jaw/throat is commonly the first symptom to appear
> with CL. But it is very easy to confuse with bottle jaw and milk goiter.
> I've read that CL abscesses are hard whereas bottle jaw and milk goiter
> lumps are soft. What do the abscesses on your sheep look and feel like?
>
> Carol
>
> At 02:15 PM 9/12/2015, you wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for everyone's advice. The Vet came and did a necropsy on Marley:
>>
>> Coryne psuedotuberculosis.  All through his body.
>>
>> I have had a few of the abscesses on my sheeps neck or jaw before and
>> was aware this was contagious, but was not that aware of how
>> devastating it could be.. Now I am.
>
>
> ___
> 

Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44

[Elizabeth Radi]

I really would consult with your veterinarian if you would go the route of 
Mark.  
One way to tell if your sheep are deficient, is if one dies, or when 
butchering, have the liver checked.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:

From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 14:51:21 -0500

I would agree that feeding any grain supplemented with copper is a bad idea.
I am also hesitant to feed fish meal which is a animal protein to sheep.
Although I do not know of any prion disease or such that would transfer from
aquatic to ruminant livestock.

Copper is essential though to livestock.  Environment is part of the
equation in how much copper is metabolized by sheep.  Also, the breed of
sheep determines the sensitivity level to copper.  IN MY OPERATION I feed a
cattle mineral block with copper along with a plain white salt block to my
Barbados Blackbelly sheep.  I also dose my sheep with a 10% copper sulfate
solution at 1cc per every 10 pounds of body weight along with either
Cydectin, Safeguard, Valbazin or Prohibit.  The addition of the copper
sulfate solution with the de-wormers makes them more effective.  And it is
unlikely that parasites can build a resistance to copper.  I have been doing
this for 15 years and have yet to lose a sheep to copper poisoning.

I also put a very small dose (less than a teaspoon) of copper sulfate
crystals into 30 gallon poly tubs of drinking water for the sheep.  This
keeps algae out of the water and stops mosquito larvae from hatching.  It
will not kill any larvae that is pre-existing in the water.  I top off the
tubs with water along with the rain until I start seeing algae or mosquito
larvae and then repeat the process.  Water has been precious here and I
cannot be dumping it out several times per week.

This is what I do.  It is up to you to test and evaluate what is effective
in your operation.

Mark Wintermute






-Original Message-
From: Blackbelly [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On
Behalf Of Jim Isbell
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 12:01 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44

Copper sulfate.

Copper poisoning is the (main) reason you need sheep-specific feed versus
goat or poultry feed. I know several folks who have run sheep and cattle
together...and lost sheep because they got after a cattle mineral lick that
had copper of some kind.



 On Aug 21, 2015, at 23:53, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should
not eat:   Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried
yeast culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement,
riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12
supplement, choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine
hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex
(source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate,
manganous sulfate, potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic
acid, Not for Human Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding
restrictions on mammalian protein sources.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA
 
 
 
 From: Elizabeth Radi 
 To: 
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 Rick,
 I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of
trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal
also. Think of Mad Cow.
 I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just
about anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would
imagine. I really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but
mostly animal or fish source. Just some rambling thoughts.
 
 Liz Radi
 Nubian goats
 Nunn, Colorado
 
 
 --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 From: Rick Krach
 To: blackbelly Blackbelly List
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food
 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700
 
 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi 
 food. ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will 
 not eat. ?Does anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to 
 give this to my sheep, chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My 
 question is because the package does say, Not for human 
 consumption. ?Thanks,
 
 
 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA?
 ___
 
 
 
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-
No virus

Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44

[Elizabeth Radi]

Rick, Rick Rick,
the animal and fish proteins raise the flag for me.  Sheep are herbivores. My 
feeling is if they have good pasture and hay/alfalfa, they should not even need 
the grain supplements.  I do believe in a good SHEEP mineral for your area 
though. They should have a plant/forage based diet in my opinion.  Also you 
have to worry about the copper content.  
I don't know what the FDA mammalian means, I have never seen that.
  
And some poor people, and elderly have had to resort to eating cat food(canned) 
due to $$.  I saw this on a program somewhere.  Which is so troubling to me.

I usually never take anything free as it usually costs too much.(ie dead 
sheep)  I tell this to the telemarketers anyway.
If you have a grain/feed elevator near you, they might have a animal 
nutritionist on staff that could answer your questions.  

I would doubt that they would endorse feeding your sheep fish food. 
Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com
To: blackbelly Blackbelly List blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 11, Issue 44
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:53:33 -0700

Liz, look at this label and tell me if you see anything that sheep should not 
eat:   Fish meal, plant protein products, animal protein products, dried yeast 
culture, fish oil, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin 
supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, 
choline chloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, 
vitamin E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K 
activity), folic acid, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, 
potassium iodate, ethylenediamine dihydrodide, ascorbic acid, Not for Human 
Consumption. Meets FDA requirements regarding restrictions on mammalian protein 
sources.

   
Thanks,

Rick Krach
in Auburn, CA



 From: Elizabeth Radi 
 To: 
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Rick,
 I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep. Folks got into allot of 
 trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal 
 also. Think of Mad Cow.
 I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about 
 anything. Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I 
 really do not think that fish food would be plant based, but mostly animal or 
 fish source. Just some rambling thoughts.

 Liz Radi
 Nubian goats
 Nunn, Colorado


 --- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:

 From: Rick Krach 
 To: blackbelly Blackbelly List 
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food
 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700

 I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food. 
 ?Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat. ?Does 
 anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, 
 chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it? ?My question is because the package 
 does say, Not for human consumption. ?Thanks,


 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA?
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Re: [Blackbelly] Koi food

[Elizabeth Radi]

Rick,
I personally would not feed Koi food to my sheep.  Folks got into allot of 
trouble feeding ruminants animal parts in the past. It probably is illegal 
also.  Think of Mad Cow.
I would think it would be ok to feed to chickens, because they eat just about 
anything.   Also, the protein content would be pretty high I would imagine. I 
really do not think that fish  food would be plant based, but mostly animal or 
fish source. Just some rambling thoughts.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com
To: blackbelly Blackbelly List blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Koi food
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:06:35 -0700

I know that pig food cannot be given to sheep, but I wonder about Koi food.  
Someone has given me 50 lbs of Koi food which their fish will not eat.  Does 
anyone have any idea as to whether it'd be safe to give this to my sheep, 
chickens, pigs, whoever would eat it?  My question is because the package does 
say, Not for human consumption.  Thanks,


Rick Krach
in Auburn, CA 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Sheep Mastitis

[Elizabeth Radi]

Just a thought, and this has nothing to do with mastitis.  I have a friend who 
has been raising sheep for years.  When she has triplets, she always take one 
away from the mother and gives it to someone else to bottle feed or she does 
herself.
She told me, Liz/ with triplets, they all suffer.  One does well, one mediocre 
and one is runty.  Hers were wool sheep, don't know if that makes a difference.


Liz Radi
Nubian goats 
Nunn, Colorado


--- uncarved_bl...@earthlink.net wrote:

From: Jim Isbell uncarved_bl...@earthlink.net
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Sheep Mastitis
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:06:45 -0500

We seem to have a sheep with mastitis. Susie (from Soggy Top) gave birth to
triplets (2 rams and 1 ewe) on 03/18. All was well, lambs were between 4-5
lbs at birth. However, I woke up this morning to find the ewe lamb dead. No
visible injuries, she just seemed a bit thinner than I would think is
normal. Today, I see that one of the ram lambs is also looking on the thin
side. So, after feeding the adult ewes, I worked with Susie and her lambs,
noticing she isn't entirely enthusiastic about nursing them. Not running
away, just not excited about it. So, I actually put her on the ground to
give better access to her teats and put the thin ram lamb on one. I worked
her udder/bag to get it started, and I noticed that she is pretty lumpy with
some harder spots. Pretty sure she has mild mastitis. She still produces
(some) milk. Nothing wrong with it (white, fluid - no blood, lumps or
discharge).

 

Seeing as you all are experienced sheep-folk, what is the remedy here?

 

 

Thanks,

Jim Isbell

To sin is a human business, to justify sins is a devilish business.
- Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoy

 

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Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas

[Elizabeth Radi]

I saw a picture of this on facebook.  But it was made with pvc.  Would probably 
be more cost effective.  Anyway, I put it on my fb page.  under Liz Whalen Radi


Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 10:13:50 -0700

(re-senmding this message. Carol was not sure if it went through)

Ah, the roller fence. I saw some examples of this as well..definitely
effective on domestics dogs, would be interesting to see if it
actually works on coyotes.

http://www.coyoteroller.com

 Looks very interesting and less ugly than the angled prison fencing I
have been I thinking about.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/2008-08-01_No_Tresspassing_sign_at_RDU.jpg

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:48 PM,  elaine_wil...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Hi Jann,

 Yes, would love for you to further elaborate on the 4 pvc pipe on the top
 of the fence. Did you just cut a slit in one side and just slide it over the
 top horizontal? Did you do anything to secure it further?

 Elaine

 Message: 2
 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 12:21:47 -0600
 From: Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas
 Message-ID: 39787586-218a-4c26-b081-857d77bc6...@aol.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 I put a 4 pvc pipe on the top of the fence. Makes it nearly impossible to
 scale as they have no traction to grab the top of the fence. I can further
 elaborate if anyone is interested.

 Jann



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Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

[Elizabeth Radi]

Michael.
we have a male and a female team.  The female is spayed, and the male is whole, 
but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him.  We got 
him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, that is 
why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents showed him 
the ropes, they were good dogs.
These LGD mature around 2 years old.  I would not trust them with babies until 
after that time.  And they know what they are supposed to do.
Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good 
guard dog.  Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will 
automatically be a good mother.


Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:

From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500




Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject
regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to
dogs I'd like to ask:

male or female dog? does it matter?
at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get
played with and accidentally killed?
at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a
AB-BB lamb?

since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only
two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to
spend allowing a puppy to figure things out.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies




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[Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

[Elizabeth Radi]

Not a fencing idea, just a story.  We have lived in Colorado for 5 years now.  
We raise  sheep and dairy goats.  In the fall, the antelope congregate in our 
back property for breeding season.
A few come back in the spring and have their babies a couple hundred feet 
outside our fence.  They pay no mind to the LGDs that we have. And when the 
young coyotes are in training, they are very vocal,  the dogs bark allot. Well 
anyway, back to the antelope.
 I commented to a local rancher about the crazy antelope having their babies 
here with our dogs barking at times.  He told me that the antelope are using 
the dogs as a warning when danger is near.The light bulb went on for me 
then and there.  They feel safe by the dogs.
  
We have two LGD's, not counting my little weenie dog.  They watch each others 
back.  The Great pyr is the guardian and stays with the sheep at night, while 
his pyr/Anatolian partner is in the  search and destroy mode at night.  

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com


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Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators

[Elizabeth Radi]

Recover your immense costs?  Probably never. 
 Isn't it a labor of love?  
Especially for us, with the cost of hay.  We hope that some day we break even.
But our son says it keeps us young, so there are health benefits.
That being said, we have free ranging chickens, guineas, and also raise dairy 
goats and sheep.  Have never lost anything to a predator, since 1999.  the 
livestock guard dog team, (Great Pyr intact male, and Anatolian/pyr cross 
spayed female), love the goats and sheep, and we can always tell when a birth 
is imminent by the dogs. 

 
We have 10 fenced acres, and raised the gates for the dogs to shimmy under to 
get to each pasture. I do use lamb jugs when sheep have their babies, as Moms 
will challenge the dogs.  And don't like their babes messed with.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- greg.hess...@massoutrage.com wrote:

From: Gregory A. Hession J.D. greg.hess...@massoutrage.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Livestock and predators
Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 19:10:37 -0400

We have two guardian dogs, who bark at predators randomly throughout 
every night. So far, so good; We have not lost any stock. We also have 
lots of fences with electric strand toppers.

But the costs involved in all of these protective measures begs the 
question:  How are we ever going to recover our immense costs in this 
farming enterprise?

Gregory A. Hession J.D.
P.O. Box 543
93 Summer Street
Thorndike, MA 01079
(413) 289-9164
greg.hess...@massoutrage.com
www.massoutrage.com

On 5/4/2014 7:03 PM, Eileen Breedlove wrote:
 We only have seven acres and we have three guardian dogs.  One for ewes, one
 for rams, and a third for a breeding group or sheep isolated for whatever
 reason.  We are the only farm in our neighborhood who has not lost livestock
 to predators (we have cougar, coyote, bobcat, and eagles), and all our dogs
 have battle scars.  The dogs collectively eat 4-5 lbs of dog food per day
 depending on the weather, but we love them.  The ewes also go in the barn at
 night, and we shut them in during lambing (that's actually so we don't have
 to chase down newborn lambs in the pasture!)

 If we are only using two pastures we double up the dogs in one pasture.  The
 third dog is also very helpful if we decide to have puppies.

 Eileen Breedlove

 -Original Message-
 From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:01 PM
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 32

 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to
   blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info

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 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
 Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest...


 Today's Topics:

 1. Anti coyote fence ideas (Michael Smith)
 2. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Jann Bach)
 3. Re: Anti coyote fence ideas (Rusty Iron Acres)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:50:45 -0700
 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
   blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas
 Message-ID: 6c22c670-463a-48b0-89be-6d3faa5da...@gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 I finally saw it as some list-members described: a full grown coyote run up
 to my 4.5 foot tall fence and just scale it. It was last night after a
 previous night coyote attack that killed my two beloved miniature Pygmy
 goats and harmed my toe other pygmys. The sheep were unscathed. I know
 lessons in shepherding are hard-earned and I had been thinking about coyotes
 considering last years June attack. This year I thought I was being safer.
 Had the animals in the central pasture--which has no holes in the fence, the
 dog was in the pasture next door. I had been letting her in with the ewes
 and goats at night, but stopped doing it, since I have two ewes in a paddock
 that are ready to lamb and I was trying to not stress them out too much.

 That was a mistake.

 So, after cleaning up the mess yesterday and figuring out one goat has a
 limp and the other has a partially paralyzed tongue, I decided to move
 Sheila, our dog's home, permanently with the ewes and goats.

 I have one of those 1000 candle LED flashlights (which, while costing around
 $80-100, I highly recommend--they go forever and look like 

[Blackbelly] Fading lamb/actually castrating

[Elizabeth Radi]

I just kind of jumped into this today.  Regarding castrating lambs. 

 I, like Natasha,  do not like to have to separate my male from female lambs.  
If the ram lambs are not RR or good enough to be breeders, I get them 
castrated.  I have my vet do it.  She recommends that they be castrated between 
3-7 days, as it is less painful for them.  There was a study done on cattle, 
somewhere I guess, regarding this issue. 

She will not band the lamb, if the mother has not received CDT within a month 
of birth.  She recommends cutting instead, if not vaccinated.  The banding 
leads to rotting off of the necrotic(dead no blood supply) testicles, and could 
lead to infection. And enterotoxemia.

I bring the lambs to her and she only charges me $2 per lamb to castrate by 
cutting.  She also gives them a nerve block prior(shot).  I have not had any 
trouble with the lambs.  We banded one lamb once, and he was uncomfortable for 
awhile, and my husband said if he had to be castrated, he would want it quick 
and not have to wait for them to rot off.

Just my take on castration.  Oh, I always vaccinate my ewes prior to breeding 
and 1 month prior to lambing. For the tetanus.  Tetanus is a bacteria in the 
soil, and all animals are susceptible to this is they get a cut or what ever. I 
know that most of you advertise no vaccinations, but that is why I do it.
  
Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- meadowskuv...@gmail.com wrote:

From: R. Natasha Baronas meadowskuv...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 07:24:59 -0700

Thanks Carol.  I have a few extra things to add for consideration.  I know that 
I won't have a definitive answer but I want to throw some of this out there.

This is the first time I've ever castrated.  I have a very small flock - five 
ewes.  I have grown tired of separating the ram lambs from the ewe lambs as my 
fenced areas are smaller than I'd like.  I like seeing them all run together so 
I thought I'd castrate.  Next time I won't castrate so young.  The other fellas 
were a week old and strong, this guy was still little.

The night before castration I was awakened by the sound of very close by foxes. 
 I have livestock guardian dogs.  One female is just under two and pretty solid 
but still immature.  I haven't kept her in with the sheep at night, only once 
in awhile.  So at 4:00 am I got up to check the sheep.  The foxes were close 
and the dogs were barking.  I put my dog in with the sheep.  We have lots of 
snow here that is now hard and crusty and the animals can run on top of it to 
get around leaving my flock vulnerable.  That morning was when I noticed the 
nick on the ram's head.  Now I'm all worried that it was my dog who did this.  
But if the ram had neurological issues from a snap from the dog wouldn't they 
have manifested themselves right away?  I have a hard time believing she did 
this as she will carefully lay among the sheep during the days while 
supervised.  However, how does a two day old lamb get a nick?  This leads me to 
my next point...don't castrate unless the lamb is 100%.  He 
 appeared fine that day but why stress him out with another procedure?

Last thing to consider.  This first time ewe has four nipples instead of two.  
Normally you'd probably not keep that but I liked her conformation and her 
lines throw some nice lambs.  She's really skittish but I managed to express 
milk from two on the same side so I know her plumbing is working.  If she is a 
little different - could that impact her lambs?

I can't change what happened but for my remaining two ewes who have to deliver 
I will ensure that they have their own space to lamb and be apart from the rest 
of the flock as to avoid unfortunate accidents.  Thanks for your input.

Natasha
British Columbia, Canada 

Sent from my iPad



  Do not beat yourself up; simply learn.
 
 The only thing that occurred to me from reading your email is wondering if 
 perhaps it might be unnecessary to castrate your ram lambs. That would reduce 
 the amount of trauma that they have to go through, especially so soon after 
 birth. 
 It never gets easier. Don't let anyone tell you that it does.
 
 Carol
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Re: [Blackbelly] Breeding young RAMS

[Elizabeth Radi]

Tiana,
Your veterinarian can check this out for you.  


Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- tian...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Tiana Franklin tian...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info,  Ellen Brouillette 
ellenlyn...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Breeding young RAMS
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 10:34:29 -0700

I will give you my story and see if it helps. I have 3 ewes of unknown age
and purchased a ram lamb last December that was 3 months old. He has been
with the girls ever since and I still have not had a lamb. I saw him breed
two girls in March when he was 6 month old but the girls didn't get
pregnant. Now I have a marking harness on him since the beginning of
October and he has bred two of the three. He is now over a year old and I
would think he should get the job done. I'm really hoping that he is not
shooting blanks...


On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Ellen Brouillette ellenlyn...@yahoo.comwrote:

 From what I read ABBs can possibly lamb out every 7 mouths. We had 3
 ewes lamb out in Sept. when we bought them and lamb out again in April. So
 we know it is possible, How consistently have your ABBs done this? Our ewes
 are in good shape and all lambed out this spring,  We are still wondering
 about this young ram because as I said before we have not had any lambs
 this fall.   Arnold
 On Monday, October 14, 2013 1:35 PM, Ellen Brouillette 
 ellenlyn...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I got rid of my old ram last winter. I have a young ram that was a year
 old this spring. The first I saw him breed was in August. By the looks of
 our spring lambs I thought he had breed some last fall. We have no lambs
 yet this fall. Am looking for feedback in this aria. Thanks,
 Arnold
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-- 
Tiana Franklin
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Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 9, Issue 29

[Elizabeth Radi]

Rick,
I appreciate your thoughts on this. I however, do not have a mathematical 
brain, and it is easier for me to remember a name than # 1301, 1302, 
1303. 
I use your numbering system for their registration tags, with the year and 
birth order also. Scrapie tag in the right ear, and registration tag in the 
left ear with 6ear and birth order. My vet always says to me Remember Liz, the 
right ear belongs to the government! 
Sorry to ramble on.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com
To: blackbelly Blackbelly List blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 9, Issue 29
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 15:13:42 -0700

In my humble opinion sheep are farm animals and not pets; therefore, I never 
give them names. If names are required for registration, then simple numbers 
like: 13A1,13 for the year, A for the ewe, and 1 for number in the liter.

Rick Krach
nbsp;in Auburn, CAnbsp;


 Today's Topics:
 
 1. Naming schemes for lambs (Carol J. Elkins)
 2. Re: Naming schemes for lambs (Elizabeth Radi)
 
 

 
 Hi everyone,
 
 It's been quiet for quite awhile. Everyone must be either flooded out 
 or drying up in the drought!
 
 I was just wondering what kind of naming schemes you might use when 
 naming lambs born in your flock. I generally name my lambs based on 
 maternal bloodline. For example, if the ewe is named Betty, then I 
 would name her lambs Beatrice, Beetlejuice, Bonanza, etc. That is 
 good for 26 maternal lines.
 
 Another gal I know names all lambs born in a group by something 
 common, for example flowers (Rose, Petunia, Lilly). That way she 
 knows siblings and perhaps year of birth.
 
 What naming schemes can YOU think of? Do you use a scheme when naming 
 lambs in your flock?
 
 Carol
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 9, Issue 29

[Elizabeth Radi]

I hear you, Cecil. Don't tell Timmy he is not a pet. He is the first one to 
meet me at the gate, faster than even the LGDs!

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- crbear...@copper.net wrote:

From: Cecil R Bearden crbear...@copper.net
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 9, Issue 29
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 20:36:40 -0500

Nearly every animal on my farm has a name. We have one old ewe that we 
have to try to keep out of the mini van when we open the door

Cecil in OKla


On 7/1/2013 5:13 PM, Rick Krach wrote:
 In my humble opinion sheep are farm animals and not pets; therefore, I never 
 give them names. If names are required for registration, then simple 
 numbers like: 13A1,13 for the year, A for the ewe, and 1 for number in the 
 liter.

 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA


 Today's Topics:

 1. Naming schemes for lambs (Carol J. Elkins)
 2. Re: Naming schemes for lambs (Elizabeth Radi)


 Hi everyone,

 It's been quiet for quite awhile. Everyone must be either flooded out
 or drying up in the drought!

 I was just wondering what kind of naming schemes you might use when
 naming lambs born in your flock. I generally name my lambs based on
 maternal bloodline. For example, if the ewe is named Betty, then I
 would name her lambs Beatrice, Beetlejuice, Bonanza, etc. That is
 good for 26 maternal lines.

 Another gal I know names all lambs born in a group by something
 common, for example flowers (Rose, Petunia, Lilly). That way she
 knows siblings and perhaps year of birth.

 What naming schemes can YOU think of? Do you use a scheme when naming
 lambs in your flock?

 Carol



 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Naming schemes for lambs

[Elizabeth Radi]

Carol,
I do the same as you. The moms name is Lucy, her lambs will be named starting 
with an L. Example, Lacy. If you have trouble coming up with names, get a book 
for naming babies, they have lots of neat names listed alphabetically and what 
they stand for. I do this mostly so my husband can keep things straight, but he 
still can't remember the names.
I think that theme names are neat also. Think of expensive vehicles. Lexus, 
Cadillac, Lamborghini,Porsche etc. 
When registering dairy goats with the ADGA they have a tattoo year letter. This 
years letter that must be used is D. So every kid could be named starting with 
a D and you would know that that kid was born in 2013. Next year it will be E, 
then F and so on.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- celk...@awrittenword.com wrote:

From: Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Naming schemes for lambs
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 17:08:09 -0600

Hi everyone,

It's been quiet for quite awhile. Everyone must be either flooded out 
or drying up in the drought!

I was just wondering what kind of naming schemes you might use when 
naming lambs born in your flock. I generally name my lambs based on 
maternal bloodline. For example, if the ewe is named Betty, then I 
would name her lambs Beatrice, Beetlejuice, Bonanza, etc. That is 
good for 26 maternal lines.

Another gal I know names all lambs born in a group by something 
common, for example flowers (Rose, Petunia, Lilly). That way she 
knows siblings and perhaps year of birth.

What naming schemes can YOU think of? Do you use a scheme when naming 
lambs in your flock?

Carol

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Re: [Blackbelly] Prolapse

[Elizabeth Radi]

Natasha,
Glad things are going ok.  
I have sodium bicarbonate(baking soda) for years to my goats, since 1997. You 
can get it at the feed store, livestock grade sodium bicarbonate. I also put it 
out free choice for the Katahdins, since they are ruminants.
If I were you, I would not feed molasses.  May throw the rumen off.  They don't 
need it.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- meadowskuv...@gmail.com wrote:

From: R. Natasha Baronas meadowskuv...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Prolapse
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:40:05 -0700

Today my sheep friend came by again to take a look at my girls, hear my 
concerns, and allay my fears.  Here's the poop:

The Katahdin sheep are not ready to go yet by looking at their udders - they 
have a way to go. The ewe who is prolapsing mildly appears to have multiples by 
their estimation.  I thought she meant twins...no, triplets.  She does see this 
with her ewes who have triplets.  I need to keep an eye on it and make sure it 
doesn't get worse, make sure she walks around a bit more.  She developed a lump 
on her udder - it felt like a testicle of all things.  Her udder is not hot, it 
may be a gland?  She wasn't worried about it.  They noticed that my ewes seemed 
to look a bit bloated and recommended offering baking soda to them, as much as 
they like, to reduce the gas.  I am graining but they thought they looked too 
full for the amount I am giving.  Incidentally, since they have offered it to 
their goats the milk tastes better and the milk fat concentration has 
increased.  They also recommended offering molasses.

This is what has worked for them.  I don't need to call a vet but just keep a 
careful eye on my girlies.  I can't imagine them getting any bigger but if they 
have too much gas from the grain maybe that's why they look so big?  Have any 
of you heard of the baking soda?  What were the results?  Can I overdo the dry 
molasses?

Thanks for listening and sharing :)

Natasha

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Blackbelly] Giving Birth

[Elizabeth Radi]

Cecil,
So sorry to hear of all your troubles. Ruminants present a challenge, don't 
they. 
I am sure that you will get a lot of varying views on what to do. And I have 
only had 3 lambs, since we just got sheep. But I have been raising and milking 
Nubian goats since 1997. 

Two of my ewes are over-conditioned and the two of them had their babies, and 
have great growth in the lambs, one was a single(15#) and the other had 
twins(11#  12#). I was worried about their weight, but everything came out OK, 
and I will let them nurse longer to take off weight.

Now, these are just thoughts, and please do not be offended by any of these 
questions.

Are your sheep too inbred. Not having hybrid vigor?

Have you ever had your hay tested? 
Is there a lot of farm chemical use around you?

Do you have a good LOOSE mineral for the area out at all times? Not blocks, as 
I don't think that they can get the amount of mineral they need from a block, 
also it can break teeth.
My vet also recommended to me, to put out iodized loose salt for my goats,( it 
is red in color) as she said they need iodine to make milk. But mine did not 
care for it much, as I had been feeding kelp.
I do the same for my sheep.

I feed twice daily. I feed 2ND cut orchard grass hay. If they don't clean it 
up, they get less in the evening.
Twice daily, they get a pelleted feed, Ewe and Lamb developer 14% protein, but 
I don't give them allot of this, as my feelings for ruminants being feed 
concentrates, this is also milled for my area.. They need protein for milk and 
to grow kids. I give this 4 weeks before they are due to lamb, and while they 
are milking.. I also feed a small amount for 3rd cut alfalfa. 7 sheep get 2 
flakes of alfalfa twice daily. 

Now, with dairy goats, if your feed program is lacking, that eventually you 
will have problems. Not that yours is lacking, just what I have heard. I almost 
hated to write this email as I have 3 ewes yet to lamb in May. All of my sheep 
are young, with none ever lambing before.

My husband and I were just commenting about how easy sheep are to raise vs 
dairy goats. 

Good luck, and I know that I have written to you before, and believe that you 
live in Oklahoma or somewhere around there. 
Well must go for now, the girls are hollering to be milked. 


Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

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Re: [Blackbelly] Giving Birth

[Elizabeth Radi]

Michael,
Actually, I don't have Blackbely.  I have registered Katahdins.  My two ewes 
that just delivered were 1/2 wooly and 1/2 hair, dorper I believe.  
I reread Cecils post.  Mine responce to him was probably not very helpful.  

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Giving Birth
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 07:29:25 -0800

Liz, those blackbelly birthweights are huge, compared to anything I have 
experienced in my two lambings.

for me, a single at 11# is very large, and twins over 4.8# but under 6# are 
expected to thrive.

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 2, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Elizabeth Radi lizr...@skybeam.com wrote:

 Cecil,
 So sorry to hear of all your troubles. Ruminants present a challenge, don't 
 they. 
 I am sure that you will get a lot of varying views on what to do. And I have 
 only had 3 lambs, since we just got sheep. But I have been raising and 
 milking Nubian goats since 1997. 
 
 Two of my ewes are over-conditioned and the two of them had their babies, 
 and have great growth in the lambs, one was a single(15#) and the other had 
 twins(11#  12#). I was worried about their weight, but everything came out 
 OK, and I will let them nurse longer to take off weight.
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] lamb disappeared

[Elizabeth Radi]

Any chance that your lamb crawled through the fence and the LGD ate him?
Also, I think that Eagles only weigh about 10#. Surprised me as they look 
bigger due to their large wing span, but they are opportunistic and usually eat 
carrion. But a 3# lamb would probably be doable. Just a few thoughts.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- blueberryf...@bellsouth.net wrote:

From: Jerry blueberryf...@bellsouth.net
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] lamb disappeared
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:17:39 -0600

A 2 day old ABB lamb, one of a twin pair, has disappeared. There is no sign 
of intruders, no hair, no bones, no evidence.

We do have coyotes, hawks, owls, and buzzards here, but no panthers and no 
eagles nearby, This lamb was in a small flock in a 2 acre paddock 
completely enclosed with a good 4 foot hog wire fence. Our guard dog was 
with the main flock in another pasture. I'm guessing the lamb weighed about 
3 lbs, could be a little less; it was the smaller of the twins.

Have any of you had that experience? Do you know what manner of critter can 
either totally consume such a lamb or remove it out of the paddock without a 
trace?

Thanks for your help,

Jerry Kirby
Windmill Farms LLC
Picayune, Mississippi


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Re: [Blackbelly] sheep scratching post

[Elizabeth Radi]

Michael, 
I would think someone would poke out an eye, if I am picturing what you are 
describing.
We have been thinking about getting one of those old street cleaning brushes, 
and mount it vertically on a round post. Would be nice to mount 2 side by side, 
so they could scratch both sides at the same time. We have both sheep and goats 
that like to scratch.
But they are heavy, and we don't have heavy equipment to mount them. Also, they 
seem to be hard to locate.

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] sheep scratching post
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 19:34:13 -0800

Funny you should ask. I am seriously considering something heavy-duty
with large 1 wooden dowels sticking out horizontally, like a huge bed
of nails with the nails maybe 8 to 12 apart. The wooden dowels
would, of course wear down and be chewed on, but it should last
several seasons if they are about a foot long. I think the goats and
ewes could handle it. The rams, idiots that they are, would probably
try to challenge it, and destroy it, or their faces. This design is
still in my head. I have an 8 month old (human) to worry about and may
not get to it this year.

This idea came from watching them work over a large willow trunk base
I have lying on it's side in their pasture. They also like to scratch
on things like this in the summer.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.




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[Blackbelly] New website

[Elizabeth Radi]

Loved you website!

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- bbs_phar...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: Remi Asindraza bbs_phar...@yahoo.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] New website
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:15:57 -0800 (PST)





Hello everyone,
Finally, the farm's website is up and 
running.I hope it will help spread out the information about the breed, 
particularly in the South West.It looks like that I am the only breeder out 
here.

http://blackbellyfarm.us/

Happy Thanksgiving

Remi Asindraza
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[Blackbelly] hay waste

[Elizabeth Radi]

Carol,
I made hay feeders for my sheep, and they eat every scrap with no waste.  Each 
feeder feeds 3 sheep.  Is there anyway that I can post a picture to this site?
I viewed the lucerne horse feed from Maine.  Sounds like Chaffhaye, only 
without the added grain.

Liz Radi
Idar Alpacas, Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- celk...@awrittenword.com wrote:

From: Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info,doublejfa...@wildblue.net
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Hay for the winter
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:30:39 -0600

Ummm, good point, John. My grain mix costs about $0.25/lb, so it 
would cost less than $4.00/sheep/month to feed 1/2 lb per day. In 
contrast, my sheep eat (and waste) about 2 bales of alfalfa hay per 
month (alfalfa is just about the only hay available here and none is 
available now). So 2 bales at $7.00 each (if I could get it) would be 
$14/month. So I really need to supplement the hay with as much grain 
as they can safely eat, not only to reduce their hay consumption and 
conserve the supply I have but to save money overall. Thanks for 
helping me see that.

I have to feed hay for 6 months and then my pasture is good for the 
other 6 months. I've been feeding the ewes about 1/4 lb of grain/day 
year-round (and more when they are gestating or nursing), so I will 
up that to 1/2 lb. I have never fed my rams grain or corn unless it 
gets below zero for several nights. I'm going to change that this 
year. We'll see if it reduces the hay consumption or not. Because I 
feed free choice, I'm just hoping they don't make pigs of themselves. 
I wish I could figure out how to prevent so much hay wastage.


Carol

At 05:04 PM 10/23/2011, you wrote:
Carol: I have only used alfalfa pellets (the small ones, Tractor Supply
~$11/40#) as an added treat in a grain mix of corn and oats, or to the 12%
All Stock pellets I now feed. When my pastures turn brown, I use Bahia or
Bermuda grass hay (that is what is available locally in southwest Alabama)
pretty much free choice and put out about 1/4 to 1/2 pound of grain per head
per day. Decent local hay is $5-$6/bale and imported alfalfa hay is
$14/bale. To carry 15 head over the winter I go through about 45 bales
(~50#) of hay.  Sheep still have access to the pasture and will nibble
around but they really come running when I add a new bale of hay or put out
the grain.
John Carlton
Double J Farms

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[Blackbelly] Parasite deaths

[Elizabeth Radi]

Jerry,
Did you have a fecal done by the vet to ID the parasite in question? 
If it is barberpole worm(Haemonchus contortus), which is quite resistant down 
south to a lot of dewormers on the market. I do believe that panacur is not 
effective. 
I know that valbazen(Albendazole) is effective for this worm,at least it says 
so on the label. but can't be given to pregnant ewes or goats the first 30 days 
of pregnancy as birth defects can occur. 
On pasture, can you keep the sheep off the grass when it is wet, with morning 
dew? I think the parasite travels up the wet grass and is more often ingested. 
Also if the pasture is eaten down, it would more likely be ingested.
I am just starting off with sheep, so can't comment with my experience. I do 
recall reading somewhere that the lambs immature immune system is not parasite 
efficient (my words) until after 9 months or so. Don't quote me on this age, I 
may be wrong. 
Also, I have heard that when using an anthelmic with Barberpole, you can't kill 
off all the worms at once, as they can GI bleed. Good luck. I have read that 
parasites are quite a problem in the deep south. Somewhat due to the producers 
who don't ID the parasite, and who under treat, or use the wrong anthelmic, 
there by building resistant worms. Also, look up refugia on the internet 
regarding parasite.
Liz Radi
Idar Alpacas, Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- blueberryf...@bellsouth.net wrote:

From: Jerry blueberryf...@bellsouth.net
To: Sheep Group blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Parasite deaths
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:34:00 -0500

Fellow Blackbelliers,

I have lost 3 ram lambs (all born in January) in the past 6 weeks, all from 
anemia due to parasites. I have had ABBs for 6 years now and lost a few 
others along the way but nothing like this year. I have been operating on 
the theory of letting those least resistant ones die out rather than pass on 
their genes. But three out of about 40 is too many and I took another one, 
clearly with anemia, and acting lethargic, to the vet today. These were all 
destined for the November market. The vet recommended Panacur at 10 ml per 
animal for the entire flock today and again in two weeks . Our farm is in 
hot, humid South Mississippi with lots of rain and grass. Our flock is 
divided into three sub-flocks. Two of these smaller groups are rotated onto 
various paddocks of pasture when the grass gets higher in another paddock. 
The biggest group is on more pasture than they can eat down (in the spring 
and summer anyway). All of the deaths have occurred in the smaller two 
flocks.

My questions are these: Those of you who do not deworm, what is your 
average loss rate? I suppose it would be different in arid climates than in 
humid ones.
Has anyone in a similar 
environment to mine found that you have to deworm regularly to keep the 
flocks healthy? And if so, how often? And with which pharmaceuticals?

Thanks for your help and for any advice you may have,

Jerry Kirby
Windmill Farms LLC
Picayune, Mississippi 

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Re: [Blackbelly] Horse-blanket for a ram?

[Elizabeth Radi]

You can get a polar fleece vest, or some kind of vest, from goodwill, for a few 
dollars.  Mens or childs depending on his size.  Put it on backwards, and with 
the zipper on the animals back, zip it up.  If it is too large around the waist 
area, might try some duct tape. 
Liz Radi

--- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: [Blackbelly] Horse-blanket for a ram?
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:47:43 -0800

In northern california, we had a couple of freak weeks where we hit
around 79*F in the daytime, and still got frost in the morning. Now
it's raining and there's also a cold front with frosty mornings.

Marley my oldest sire has prematurely shed almost all his winter coat
already and we are still having freezing mornings around here. He
barely has 1/2 long hair on 90% of his body. A couple weeks ago he
had a few small bald spots which grew in.

They are predicting light snow in the San Francisco area valley for
the first time in decades tonite.

Has anyone ever successfully made a horse-blanket kind of poncho thing
for a blackbelly before?

I'd love to hear how you did it.

_MWS
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