Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I see this a lot too. I happen to be a member of both the ACB and NFB. Yeah, I know, its rare. I use both orgs as tools to get what I need done. Now, what I have found among the blind is that a lot of us are very anal retentive. It may have a lot to do with the fact that we have to be super

Re: document conversion utilities was Re: the Sonar thread

Hi, but last time i tried caliber ebook, it is not accessible with orca. really? 2017-04-25 0:55 GMT+08:00, Linux for blind general discussion : > calibre's ebook-convert does pdf and epub to some extent as well as some > of those propriatory formats, as long as there is

How to use fenrir screen reader

Forgive me for this one, but, I would like to try out this new fenrir screen reader. I can install it from the aur on here, but how do I get it to do anything after that. I do not see any documentation, though I will keep looking and will probably find it all after writing this. However,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Actually a screen reader using f12 to tell the time does make it a standard probably unique to that screen reader. Standards are loved by many because there are so many standards from which to choose. There is a huge difference between a standard and the standard; those multiple standards

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I don't think nerds or blind nerds are unique in this sense at all. In fact, since the blind suffer so much from prejudice, I'm always surprised by how prejudiced the blind themselves can be about the blind, although I shouldn't be, since I think that's just human nature. Anyone who thinks the

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

It's not that I don't care about new users coming to Linux from Windows. It's more that I care about the new computer user who's starting with Linux. Why shouldn't they have the most intuitive set of key bindings possible? What about those that have been using Orca all along? How about those

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I don't think it's fair to say that Windows users just went right along with giving up the start menu. There was a major out cry and MS reintroduced the start menu. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail On 24/04/17 19:06, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Windows users have had to

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Dan Rossi here. WOW, what a thread. The vehemence surrounding a silly little thing like F-12 verses insert-t is amazing. In JAWS, insert-t is for the title of the window I am in. Title, T. There are only 26 letters in the alphabet and a few modifier keys, so some things are going to get

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

The serial terminal is indeed built into the kernel, but the difference is that it isn't stuck in staging with no hope of ever getting out into the main tree. In fact, the serial terminal has been a part of the base kernel for many many years. And what in the world is wrong with using a cable

Re: list identification:

Actually, in this age of internetdom, one can not truly be sure the name provided is correct. access to the address at least gave you some sort of firm direction. I did not share, but when I tried a little experiment, Amy K, the name associated with the spam suddenly developed a gmail

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Windows users have had to learn and relearn basic functionality of their own precious OS for years now, as Microsoft itself periodically changes the way things work just for the sake of making a change. I see nothing new here, except that the benefits of Linux far outweigh any changes in key

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

F12 is completely arbitrary and has no meaning outside of stupid Jaws. And to answer the question of people who speak different languages using different mnemonics, this is completely fair, but should be addressed by maybe having different default mnemonics for different languages, not by

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

This is Luke Yelavich, reply below. On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 09:23:19PM AEST, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > Screen readers cannot give boot messages anyways, with software speech. Actually, with things set up correctly to allow the screen reader to come up as early as possible,

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Re: list identification:

Hej, On Mo, Apr 24, 2017 at 08:24:54 +0200, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: >you wrote: > >> blinux-list is no longer sending 'From' addresses because of a spammer >> abusing these addresses. > >This new behaviour gets the list reading cumbersome and >inefficient, unfortunately.

Re: list identification:

Hello, Hans and list! I'm Lars Bjørndal. you wrote: > blinux-list is no longer sending 'From' addresses because of a spammer > abusing these addresses. This new behaviour gets the list reading cumbersome and inefficient, unfortunately. Previously it was possible to notice the sender before

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Regardless of the method used, I'm not sure boot messages are all that important to the average user or even the average power user. The functionality might be useful to some sysadmins, but I'm not convinced the convenience kernel integration provides to these few is worth the extra hassle

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Well, the serial terminal is also built into the kernel. you're just depending a a different set of maintainers. A serial terminal is no where near as usable as speakup is at boot time. You talk about a serial terminal needing only another machine like an RP but that's not entirely true. You

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Okay, lets just make this perfectly clear. You don't care that a new user trying to switch from Windows to linux would be confused by having to learn all new shortcut keys, right? You are saying that in your opinion insert+t just makes so much more sense than F12 that it is more important than

Re: list identification:

Hi blinux-list members, blinux-list is no longer sending 'From' addresses because of a spammer abusing these addresses. Therefore Kelly's proposal for adding a signature/alias at the end of a posting is reasonable. In addition, your signature is adding power to your posting. Enjoy! Hans

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

Ok, I have been following this discussion and it is very interesting. Doug Smith here. I have just had to change over to antergos. It is really good, seems stable, and, though it is not what we might call a specialized distro, it works well with orca on gnome. It is a modification of arch

Re: document conversion utilities was Re: the Sonar thread

calibre's ebook-convert does pdf and epub to some extent as well as some of those propriatory formats, as long as there is no drm on them. HTH, Willem On Mon, 24 Apr 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Linux for blind general discussion writes: the

document conversion utilities was Re: the Sonar thread

Linux for blind general discussion writes: > the following command line utilities are all useful: > > catdoc for .doc and I believe .rtf(and I believe catdoc also includes > commands to handle xls and ppt). *snip* > Granted, I know of no command line tools for dealing

Re: blinux list Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I wouldn't mind moving to a new list. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > It's not true that Red Hat did what they could do as quickly as they > could do

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I use Emacs, with Boodler, as a Talking Clock. There is a sound scape that speaks time every 15 minutes. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > For

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

My God! No one is /making/ you use it! It, is, a, choice, damn it! Just because one person wants it one way doesn’t mean it’s how it /has/ to be! -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Screen readers cannot give boot messages anyways, with software speech. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > Boot messages can be sent out via a serial

Re: switching lists

I'm not really bothered by the anonymity the list now has, nor was I bothered by the spam that lead to the anonymity, but would you mind providing instructions on how to join these other lists? I'm already on both this list and the Raspberry Vi list(which focuses specifically on accessibility on

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

For reading, if I can't read it in Firefox, I usually convert it to plain text and read it in nano. Gmail's view as HTML function works for most attached documents, and the following command line utilities are all useful: catdoc for .doc and I believe .rtf(and I believe catdoc also includes

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

F12 isn't stupid. It's a perfectly reasonable choice. Someone else might argue that orca+t is stupid because to them, t means table. Or tab. Or maybe they speak swahili and their word for time starts with a q or an x. -- John Heim On 04/24/2017 05:49 AM, Linux for blind general discussion

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Boot messages can be sent out via a serial console, without the help of a screen reader locked into the kernel, where it is harder to fix bugs and harder to keep it updated, as the whole kernel has to be updated along with it. I know the serial console works, as I have a uart header on my

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

No. F12 does not mean time in any language. F12 may be a Jaws thing, and it may even be an NVDA thing, but it's far from a standard. Last I checked, time wasn't spelled with an f anything. Therefore, f12 telling me the time is stupid and illogical at best. I want my t damn it. T for time, t

switching lists

John, I am subscribed to both lists. I think the main problem with switching is what Karen said a few messages back. People are not comfortable with change. Maybe we should just take some threads over there. This list is almost useless when you search the archives as there are not individual

Re: IAVIT - Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Email me off list at j...@iavit.org. Our server is more of a meeting place than a development environment. We can save you the cost of hosting and a domain name. We can give you space to host your downloads, the email list, plus a blog or a wiki for documentation. On 04/24/2017 05:34 AM,

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

Kelly Prescott here. It takes a lot of effort to make a boot environment talk... I know, because that is what I am working on. I am not speaking of Linux, I am speaking of a boot loader. When I finish my boot loader, then it might be realistic to have a normal arch cd with some boot options.

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

I am karen lewellen. Just a couple of points before I go back into the corner. Now that the stuff is technical. 1 out of every 8 computers in the world still uses windows xp...many fear changing what they understand for what they do not. As for accessibility, its implementation and otherwise,

blinux list Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

It's not true that Red Hat did what they could do as quickly as they could do it. The spam problem went on for months before some of us finally started to make an issue of it. Even then it tooke a couple of weeks before anything was done. Secondly, they should have removed the spammer from the

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

On a somewhat related note, it annoys me that Debian CD1's boot menu just beeps and you have to know the right combination of buttons to press to start the talking version of the installer(that the talking installer removes the ability to navigate installer menus with arrow keys is also annoying)

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

The reason it is important for the screen reader to not be in user space is that you might need it to gett boot messages. -- John Heim On 04/24/2017 07:40 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Tony, I said absolutely nothing of Red Hat hosting Orca. I said they ship it with the

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

Kyle wrote: > problem is that they already have a brltty package, but the > brltty-minimal package is needed in order to make it work without > pulling in lots of unneeded dependencies. This will always need to be > in a separate repository unfortunately. Perhaps Chris, who maintained > the iso

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Yes, hopefully Microsoft will help out the project, by giving us Linux users the ability to type in Grade two. Still haven’t found a way to read books in Linux though, especially Braille books, or EPUB, although I could download the Braille from NLS or Bookshare and

RE: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

And now BrlTTY is being used in Windows Narrator. Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Staff Engineer National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress Washington, DC 20542 202-707-0535 http://www.loc.gov/nls/ The preceding opinions are my own and do not necessarily

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I haven't ever found the SBL source code, although I did want to try to package it for Arch at one point. That said, I'm not sure whether or not anyone is even still maintaining it now, and not having seen the source or the package dependencies, I'm not entirely sure it doesn't rely on a

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I haven't tried Fenrir and wouldn't know where to start with trying it, but I've tried speakup both on x86 Debian(both 32- and 64-bit) and on a Raspberry Pi(via piespeakup) and except for not needing screen review to play classic infocom games under Frotz, found it vastly inferior to SBL, the text

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony, I said absolutely nothing of Red Hat hosting Orca. I said they ship it with the distribution, which they are not at all obligated to do, as proven by the fact that Linux Mint didn't come with Orca in the live environment for a very long time. As for Speakup, it has never been fully

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

Tony, your dad sounds a few orders of magnitude more tech savvy than my dad, though considering my dad is older than ENIAC, maybe it's a bit unfair of me to use my dad as my reference model of a non-power user. Still, my dad can turn the thing on, use a web browser, play solitaire, turn it off,

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Le 24/04/2017 à 02:29, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit : > *Does quick test* At least on my system, using ctrl+left square > bracket to go back a page in Firefox puts focus on the link that took > me forward, though I'll admit behavior isn't always consistent. > > As for key

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Le 24/04/2017 à 02:24, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit : > Orca only *seems* slightly slower than NVDA to some because it works > directly with the browser. I'll take that any day over a page taking > twice as long to load because it first has to be loaded into the > browser, and then

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Kelly Prescott here. This is only my $0.02 worth as a developer, but here I go. I can program, in several languages in fact. Here is the problem. Most people that write for Linux and free software in general do it on there own time. Yes, there are a small group of highly paid developers that

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

Tony, TalkingArch won't die. It used to have a single developer before those of us who maintain it now took over. The transition ran quite smoothly, and it didn't die. Since we now have two people instead of one, it has even less of a chance of dying in the future. So TalkingArch is slightly

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. Umm, Kyle, no. Anyone can host any project without caring about accessibility. As you surely know, anyone can dump files on a public server and anyone can host a git repo. No, RH doesn't host Orca. The Gnome Foundation (gnome.org) hosts Orca. Their server is in Sweden. Joanie

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Tony, First of all, as far as I've been able to deduce over the years, everyone *cares* about accessibility. The problem is that no one *knows how* to best address any issues with it. Red Hat certainly does care. If they didn't care, they wouldn't ship Orca, or they wouldn't implement the

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

No. Long-time Jaws and NVDA users can figure out that t stands for time and use that instead, just like all the rest of us who used something else before we got to Orca. And if they really want something as stupid as f12, they can configure it in Orca's keybindings tab. ~Kyle

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

I'm Tony Baechler. See below. I disagree from experience. On 4/23/2017 4:53 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Honestly, there isn't any distro I could in good conscience recommend to a new Linux user blind or otherwise without caveats. Debian Stable is usually rock solid, but that

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

I'm Tony Baechler. See below. On 4/23/2017 4:13 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: I'd be interested in knowing the number of blind people using GNU/Linux in the world, for daily life (so with browser, GUI, etc). I'm still mostly on Windows XP, but I use Linux on an almost daily

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. See below. On 4/23/2017 3:49 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Granted, I could be wrong and the only reason there isn't a .deb for NVDA or an install.exe for Orca is because no one's tried compiling them outside their native environments, but if it was that

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

I'm Tony Baechler. Comments below. On 4/23/2017 3:45 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Nor is it mine. Which is exactly why I prefer the likes of Fedora and OpenSUSE over Debian or even Arch. I have installed both Fedora and OpenSUSE for clients, and they never have any trouble. And

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

I'm Tony Baechler. I have a really dumb question. On 4/23/2017 3:14 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Ubuntu is based off of Debian, but Fedora is not a derivative of another Linux distribution and has a more direct relationship with many upstream projects by using newer versions of

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. See below. On 4/23/2017 3:11 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Absolutely. For a number of years now, I've thought it would be nice to have an umbrella foundation to help accessibility related projects. I don't know where it would get its funding, and I don't

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm Tony Baechler. Probably others will comment, but having looked at the NVDA git repo and following the Orca list, I would like to clarify some things. On 4/23/2017 2:54 PM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: And even if the NV association had any interest in branching out, I suspect

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

You're replying to me. I'm Tony Baechler. On 4/23/2017 10:38 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: I'm not sure who I'm replying to, but I just have a few points. Vinux 4 and Vinux 5 were based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Ubuntu 14.04 respectively, which I think were the high points in Ubuntu

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

My name is Tony Baechler. Since names aren't showing up, it makes it very hard to track discussions. If no one objects, I think I'll create a new list very soon. I've looked at groups.io and they look good enough. Besides, as I stated before, Red Hat has shown many times that they don't care

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

I'm not saying you would want it, but long-time NVDA and Jaws users would. -- Sent from Discordia using Gnus for Emacs. Email: r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com Long days and pleasant nights! Linux for blind general discussion writes: > Why do I want insert+f12 to tell me the time

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Why do I want insert+f12 to tell me the time when insert+t, (t for time), can do that for me just fine and more intuitively? How is f12 better than t, which stands for time? No, that's simply not a logical keybinding, and I don't want it in Orca. BTDubs, holding in the insert Orca key and

Re: Blind vs. mainstream distros

The biggest problem with all this "stability" stuff is that all operating systems will have their bugs. Windows has bugs, Mac has huge cockroaches, and Linux has ants. So it really is a problem of if a user wants more accessibility, or less bugs, and it’s not always

Re: Sonar GNU/Linux merges with Vinux

Well, I'd love for this resource to be used. I would if I knew anything about how all that works. There was a guy on the Orca list, the creator of Liblouis, which asked if anything needed to be done with Orca development. We told him Braille support, but so far,