Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi David, On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 15:40 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Sorry, I just want to add this small comment/question to my preceding posts in this thread: These belong on discuss - as has been pointed out. They are also rather tangential to the role of the board IMHO - which devolves development and release scheduling decisions to the Engineering Steering Committee. I have been searching around, and I have not been able to find an official development roadmap of any kind. For sure, there's detailed information about planned release dates going far into the future [1]. It is lovely to have a roadmap - and it is nice to have things on it, it serves a useful marketing function no doubt. However we really need to motivate volunteers to have fun incrementally improving the code, and there is no shortage of useful tasks here. Our approach seems to work for the Linux Kernel - perhaps you should go check the Linux Kernel roadmap out to see best practise there. If our leading devs stopped coding on LibreOffice tomorrow An extremely unlikely possibility, but perhaps worth considering. we wouldn't have any idea of what kind of future plans they'd been working on implementing, and how far they'd advanced in the process. Since the new devs that you're going to find to replace all those who died of a mystery illness ;-) would have their own ideas as to what they plan to work on - thus making the previous roadmap of only academic interest. So your rational seems weak. I can believe a made-up roadmap is worth doing for marketing though. Does the engineering steering committee have any kind of formal methodologies, and any kind of formal documents that it maintains? Emphatically not beyond our minutes. Clearly we do some informal co-ordination of what we're working on to avoid overlap, and we have some ideas as to the big feature holes, and problems in the code: but it is informal. It is really easy to get included into those inclusive discussions: get involved in hard-core hacking :-) then people will try to persuade you to work on their pet feature etc. Or is the future of LibreOffice simply stored in a myriad of post-its on your computer monitors, and in your minds, and in a tenuous web of discussion threads on the devs mailing list? Not at all; the future of LibreOffice is formed exclusively by contributions that people make, and a collaboration between them that grows organically. It adapts to meet user needs as it goes with help from designers, QA people, documentation guys etc. This is anathema to large chunks of the formal, specification driven, process ruled, waterfall style software development industry. You can go and read huge management screeds about how evil it is to work incrementally and without a highly granular ten year plan, with no product management, gantt chart, etc. ;-) I meet people who simply refuse to believe that Free Software exists - and that it can possibly work and improve on this basis. However the reality is, that the best software I've seen is Free Software, and was built without any of this overhead. It is also the case that, in general, volunteers don't like being 'managed' or making binding commitments to XYZ feature delivery dates :-) I don't plan to arrive at the docs team eg. and say: what is your five year roadmap for documentation ? or you created this fantastic documentation - but why is it late !? etc. ;-) I'd be rather concerned if you had such a thing: but each to his own. Finally a time-based release plan is one that doesn't wait for features. This gives confidence to distributors and developers alike, and keeps freeze discipline without conflict. It reduces the risk of unfortunate incentives during the development process and it appears to work really well, not just for us - but for many other Free Software projects that have adopted it. HTH, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi :) Thanks :) I'm not going to be at Paris but thanks for the offer. Documentation on how to join in with other teams (including the Docs Team (following recent upgrades to their infrastructure)) also needs to be done. I don't know what UNO is. It seems to be something that depends on javascript or .Net or something?? Seems a bit strange. Of the links i found this link made the most sense http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/FirstSteps/Programming_with_UNO and even that was a tad confusing imo. Does the limited guidance on how to add a language or new translation push people into using UNO? Oddly we don't get many calls for how to translate or how to add a new language and when we do people seem satisfied with the links we give them to specific teams or to the global translations list. We do need to get decent guides for those things but we get a lot more people asking about how to join in with programming and people seldom seem happy with what we can give them. It would be good to have a proper LO Guide that reflects LO's direction instead of the direction under Sun. If there are other guides that could be usefully added to the collection that would be great. Anyone can either edit the page or pass the links to the documentation list. Anyway, thanks hugely for your considerate reply. Regards from Tom :) --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com wrote: From: Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Date: Monday, 10 October, 2011, 10:11 Hi Tom, On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 18:02 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: One of the top priorities for the Documentation Team right now is a guide to help people that want to start programming for LibreOffice. Cool ! :-) and of course, it's something that can be dead useful. There is already a good one for Extensions Right - and of course, we'd prefer people to write code that can be integrated into the core cleanly, and have code sharing between different implementations (it's easier to hack that up, debug it, and deploy it too FWIW). At the moment the Docs Team can only point to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Other_Documentation_and_Resources I like the collection; it'd be great to excerpt / re-write some more functionally focused flows for the things we know happen lots: How to add a new language How to add a new translation But of course many things are simply not documented at all; and worse most of the existing docs are *heavily* UNO focused, which is (IMHO) a big mistake. Anyhow - there were some starter tasks I mentioned to David, when they're done - lets have a call brainstorm on what more can be done, and how best to do it; will you be in Paris to discuss ? I suspect there is enough out there to dig out and re-hash in a helpful way. As an example if we systematically discard anything that talks about UNO - and condense what little is left (code structure diagrams / functional descriptions etc.) I think we might end up with something quite useful for new core hackers: or at least a nucleus to work from. Thanks, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hi Michael, On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 12:22 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Your arguments resound with the sideways logic and suave patter of a dishonest used car salesman combined with the moral values of a larcenous banker. :-D This is totally out of line; even with a smile. Tone is really important to attracting and retaining developers - far more so than documentation, and this -really- lowers it. That was a *joke*. Failed apparently. I must remember that humor doesn't work on these mailing lists. :-( However, I'm sorry you didn't seriously reply to the many serious and (IMHO) valid points I made... -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi Michael, Thanks for the answers. I don't have time to reply in detail this week, but I will certainly be thinking about what you said. I don't intend to let go of this subject, but will be planning my next attack (let me register that as a joke already) on the discuss list. I'll be coming up with a concrete plan, and this will certainly take account of your kind suggestions above. Read you around, and have a good time at the conference. ;-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Sorry, I just want to add this small comment/question to my preceding posts in this thread: I have been searching around, and I have not been able to find an official development roadmap of any kind. For sure, there's detailed information about planned release dates going far into the future [1]. But I don't find any information about what changes are planned to the general architecture of LibreOffice. If our leading devs stopped coding on LibreOffice tomorrow, not only would we not have any design documentation explaining how the beast is architectured and how it works, but we wouldn't have any idea of what kind of future plans they'd been working on implementing, and how far they'd advanced in the process. Does the engineering steering committee have any kind of formal methodologies, and any kind of formal documents that it maintains? Or is the future of LibreOffice simply stored in a myriad of post-its on your computer monitors, and in your minds, and in a tenuous web of discussion threads on the devs mailing list? -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz wrote: For sure, there's detailed information about planned release dates going far into the future [1]. [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi Michael, Thank you for taking time out to give me those interesting answers. Lots of food for thought there, as has been the case in the past after discussing with you. I'll be arming up for work on the online help and the code base in the near future, and will pop up on IRC at that time. And I'll be coming back to the subject of design docs on the discuss list, with ideas and questions. Again, thanks for the time, and have a good conference. :-) I so much regret I won't be there with you guys. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 9:38 PM, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz wrote: Hi, :-) Minor addition after a few hours sleep and before starting work: This kind of design documentation is really essential for various reasons. What would happen if there was some kind of disaster and we were to lose the essential core of our lead devs for some horrible reason? Seriously ? for a distributed open source software, _that_ is your doomsday scenario ? If that were to happen, it would probably means that your immediate problem would be survival: finding food and shelter. Computer software will be the least of our problem for few generations... We'd be scuppered. Among the other members of the LibreOffice project, is there anyone who knows how the thing works? Is there any record, useable by a non-geek No amount of documentation will turn a 'non-geek' into a core dev. Clean, well written code, with the least amount of 'trick' is the best documentation: It is by definition accurate, complete and authoritative. Quality that no Documentation ever equaled no matter how much effort you put into it. , of the state of evolution of the code base? We say that people are free to take the source and do what they want with it, but - at the moment - they'd have to reverse engineer the whole code base. How open is that? Reading source code is not 'reverse engineering'... That is what any software engineer do on a daily basis to maintain existing code. It is 'open' because anyone have access to the source code and therefore _can_ read it and figure out how it works (or doesn't). No, I apologise for insisting, and I realise that this initiative will take some initial footwork, and will require on-going maintenance, but it really should be considered to be essential work. But I firmly believe there will be a pay-off in quite a few ways. In any case, I'll be at the next couple of SC/BoD meetings to follow up and discuss the idea. There is no need for that. You can find volunteers and start working on that without the blessing of anyone. It _is_ free software, and _this_ is a meritocracy. If you _do_ something in that line -- the wiki is a perfect place for you to make that work available and gather with like minded volunteers -- no-one will get in the way. What do you expect the BoD to do ? issue an Edict ? Give you a size-able budget to hire technical writer ? If your proposal attract people from the community (our even better attract new people to it) then your proposal will become reality, regardless of the BoD opinion. That is how it is supposed to work. Norbert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hello Norbert, On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote: Seriously ? for a distributed open source software, _that_ is your doomsday scenario ? If that were to happen, it would probably means that your immediate problem would be survival: finding food and shelter. Computer software will be the least of our problem for few generations... Let's not get side-tracked. The contingency could be anything. But the need for proper documentation remains. For instance, it might be needed by a group of developers wanting to start an auxiliary project investigating a different path for development than being followed by the main track. BTW, this does not necessarily mean a fork, before I hear the word used. No amount of documentation will turn a 'non-geek' into a core dev. Clean, well written code, with the least amount of 'trick' is the best documentation: It is by definition accurate, complete and authoritative. Quality that no Documentation ever equaled no matter how much effort you put into it. No, the very best is clean, well-written code accompanied by good-quality documentation. Sorry, you will not convince me that design documentation is unnecessary. Reading source code is not 'reverse engineering'... That is what any software engineer do on a daily basis to maintain existing code. It is 'open' because anyone have access to the source code and therefore _can_ read it and figure out how it works (or doesn't). Trying to figure out from zero how a system works, because there is no documentation of the code base, is indeed reverse engineering. A software project that has no design documentation to enable a proper and facilitated understanding of its code base is *not* fully implementing the best principles of an Open Source project. Ask the FSF for an opinion about this. No, I apologise for insisting, and I realise that this initiative will take some initial footwork, and will require on-going maintenance, but it really should be considered to be essential work. But I firmly believe there will be a pay-off in quite a few ways. In any case, I'll be at the next couple of SC/BoD meetings to follow up and discuss the idea. There is no need for that. You can find volunteers and start working on that without the blessing of anyone. It _is_ free software, and _this_ is a meritocracy. If you _do_ something in that line -- the wiki is a perfect place for you to make that work available and gather with like minded volunteers -- no-one will get in the way. No, I am not going to s*d off and reverse engineer the code base myself. I am asking three of our leading devs whether they would be willing to collaborate with me on this perfectly-justifiable initiative. What do you expect the BoD to do ? issue an Edict ? Give you a size-able budget to hire technical writer ? If your proposal attract people from the community (our even better attract new people to it) then your proposal will become reality, regardless of the BoD opinion. That is how it is supposed to work. I put my question to three of our leading devs, and I will wait for them to reply to the original posts. Sorry, Norbert, but your responses do not change my views in any way. Your arguments resound with the sideways logic and suave patter of a dishonest used car salesman combined with the moral values of a larcenous banker. :-D (Above to be read tongue in cheek with a smile.) Nonetheless, have a good Sunday. ;-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
To give you an idea of the kind of collaboration I'm proposing to our leading devs, you could read this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_document -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi David, David Nelson wrote (08-10-11 16:38) 2011/10/8 Jesús Corriusje...@softcatala.org: In my opinion, I don't think it's best for the project to put some of the most skilled developers to work in documentation, when other developers can also do this task perfectly well. It is precisely these guys who could put the most effective work into this initiative, and probably the fastest. I'm asking the potential future members of the BoD to lead the way on this. I see no link between the role of the BOD and individual members making commitments to certain day to day tasks. Is there something why I should, in your opinion? Documentation is always considered to be some kind of unnecessary-to-optional accompaniment to software -- unless you're some poor blighter trying to understand how the thing works. When I directed some people new on LibreOffice hacking to the various developer wiki pages, they were positively surprised. Hmm, I do not want to say that there is no room for improvement, but as said: commitment on that topic is IMO not the item to consider when talking to an individual candidate for the BOD. Pls note: I did not make any remark about the work done by, or commitment of, Michael or any of the other devs on this area ;-) Regards, Cor -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi Cor, On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: I see no link between the role of the BOD and individual members making commitments to certain day to day tasks. Is there something why I should, in your opinion? I don't see anything incongruous about asking a candidate in the Board of Directors election about what commitments he might be willing to take on if elected. In fact, what else are you supposed to ask of candidates? When I directed some people new on LibreOffice hacking to the various developer wiki pages, they were positively surprised. Surprised? Or do you mean shocked and amazed at how little developer documentation there is about a major software project that has been developed for so many years? :-D I'm quite surprised you seem equate the very little content on the wiki to a useful provision of design documentation. In fact, there is little more than basic tips and instructions about compiling the code and a few other related issues. There is also a very small amount of API documentation at http://docs.libreoffice.org. I'm sure you'll agree that there is absolutely no design documentation of the kind I'm discussing (see [1]). There would be many advantages to developing some. I am putting this question before Michael, Thorsten and Caolan because, AFAIK, they are full-time, senior project members (sponsored by Novell, Suse and Red Hat, if I'm not mistaken), who most certainly have the greatest knowledge about LibreOffice's design and code base. They are the ideal people to work on design documentation, and I'm volunteering to work hard alongside them (without any suggestion of payment or sponsorship). It would be a major contribution and example to the community if they were willing to provide some time and expertise for this. I don't think I need to repeat the multiple other reasons why I think it's worth devoting some time and effort to this initiative, so I'll sit back and wait to see what answers might be forthcoming from the three BoD candidates I was originally addressing. ;-) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_document -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi David, David Nelson wrote (09-10-11 13:30) I don't see anything incongruous about asking a candidate in the Board of Directors election about what commitments he might be willing to take on if elected. In fact, what else are you supposed to ask of candidates? Taking care for documentation, is not a task of an individual member of the BOD, as far as I know. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:22 AM, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz wrote: Hello Norbert, No amount of documentation will turn a 'non-geek' into a core dev. Clean, well written code, with the least amount of 'trick' is the best documentation: It is by definition accurate, complete and authoritative. Quality that no Documentation ever equaled no matter how much effort you put into it. No, the very best is clean, well-written code accompanied by good-quality documentation. Sorry, you will not convince me that design documentation is unnecessary. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely giving you my opinion, grounded on having been in the trenches, designing software and writing code for a living for the past for 20 years... Anyway, I am apparently in good company: http://kerneltrap.org/node/5725 A spec is close to useless. I have _never_ seen a spec that was both big enough to be useful _and_ accurate. Linus Torvalds I'd also refer you to : http://www.agilemodeling.com/essays/agileDocumentation.htm#ProjectSuccess [..] code base is *not* fully implementing the best principles of an Open Source project. Ask the FSF for an opinion about this. I've been hacking gnu make recently... please do point me to such documentation (no, not the _user_ documentation, the supposedly indispensable 'design spec' ) so... I don't know about their opinion, but I do know about their practice... No, I am not going to s*d off and reverse engineer the code base myself. I am asking three of our leading devs whether they would be willing to collaborate with me on this perfectly-justifiable initiative. We must have a different definition of 'collaboration' than me. If you you are not going to s*d off (what-ever that means) and reverse engineer the code base yourself, it sound that you conception of collaboration is 'do as I said... I'm watching', or as we say in french 'Armons-nous et partez What do you expect the BoD to do ? issue an Edict ? Give you a size-able budget to hire technical writer ? If your proposal attract people from the community (our even better attract new people to it) then your proposal will become reality, regardless of the BoD opinion. That is how it is supposed to work. I put my question to three of our leading devs, and I will wait for them to reply to the original posts. Then this is the wrong list... if you want to ask devs, you should do that on the dev mailing list. Sorry, Norbert, but your responses do not change my views in any way. I have no such hope. I merely re-stated to you the reality of a volunteer based effort. If you want something to happen, you need to roll-up your sleeves and _make_ it happen. Trying to extract election promises out of some people, on ground completely unrelated to the office they seek, is not going to get you there. Your arguments resound with the sideways logic and suave patter of a dishonest used car salesman combined with the moral values of a larcenous banker. :-D (Above to be read tongue in cheek with a smile.) You can add all the smiles you want to an insult it is still one. Norbert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Norbert Thiebaud wrote (09-10-11 14:25) Trying to extract election promises out of some people, on ground completely unrelated to the office they seek, is not going to get you there. Correct. I would assume (have seem some mails swiftly after posting my initial contribution to this thread) that there has been some exchange on the usefulness of documentation and such. Would people like to continue: IMO not on this list. Regards, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
On 9 Oct 2011, at 10:22, David Nelson wrote: Let's not get side-tracked. You're asking a development question that's not among the duties of a member of the Board of Directors. You're obviously welcome to ask community members about your project proposal, but I suggest you wait until after the election. Appropriate questions for candidates relate to their suitability to perform the duties of a Director of The Document Foundation[1], which definitely and intentionally do not include developing the code or the documentation. S. -- Simon Phipps Election Officer, TDF 2011 Elections [1] https://elections.documentfoundation.org/overview.html -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hi, On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Norbert Thiebaud wrote (09-10-11 14:25) Trying to extract election promises out of some people, on ground completely unrelated to the office they seek, is not going to get you there. Correct. I would assume (have seem some mails swiftly after posting my initial contribution to this thread) that there has been some exchange on the usefulness of documentation and such. Would people like to continue: IMO not on this list. Norbert, it would be good if you read things carefully and accurately. Cor, it would be good if you did not jump to conclusions. Norbert and Cor, it would be polite and in keeping with the bylaws and election rules if you allowed me to put my questions to the candidates without butting in. Thank you, guys. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
On 9 Oct 2011, at 13:57, David Nelson wrote: Hi Simon, On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Simon Phipps webm...@opensource.org wrote: You're asking a development question that's not among the duties of a member of the Board of Directors. You're obviously welcome to ask community members about your project proposal, but I suggest you wait until after the election. Appropriate questions for candidates relate to their suitability to perform the duties of a Director of The Document Foundation[1], which definitely and intentionally do not include developing the code or the documentation. The candidates invited questions. I am asking mine. Are you guys censoring me? I am indicating that questions about development plans and intentions fall outside the scope of questions for Board candidates as regards their suitability for election, as the role of directors[1] does not include development tasks. I'm inviting you to note that observation and save your valid but out-of-scope question for later. I am not censoring you at this point as I hope you will choose to desist voluntarily. Thanks S. -- Simon Phipps Election Officer, TDF 2011 Elections [1] https://elections.documentfoundation.org/overview.html -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hello David, Le 09/10/2011 16:02, David Nelson a écrit : Hi Simon, On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Simon Phipps webm...@documentfoundation.org wrote: I am indicating that questions about development plans and intentions fall outside the scope of questions for Board candidates as regards their suitability for election, as the role of directors[1] does not include development tasks. I'm inviting you to note that observation and save your valid but out-of-scope question for later. I am not censoring you at this point as I hope you will choose to desist voluntarily. I have put my questions to the candidates. I am hoping that they are going to answer. I object to your arbitrary judgement that my questions are out of scope. They are perfectly reasonable, perfectly friendly and perfectly courteous questions, in response to an invitation to ask questions. I hope you are not going to blemish this first election with thoughtlessness and unnecessary declarations that go against the freedom of expression that the bylaws stand for. It would have been so much simpler if the candidates had been allowed to answer for themselves. No big and high words please :) What we're trying to say is that the functions of a BoD member do not relate to these matters. Your question is indeed valid but is simply out of context, because it is not up to the BoD members to decide these questions or to take part in this kind of work because they would be BoD members. That's all... Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
On Oct 9, 2011 3:04 PM, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz wrote: It would have been so much simpler if the candidates had been allowed to answer for themselves. Hey, cool it. No-one is stopping them answering; I'm explaining why they are not. Please read what I wrote calmly and, if you still don't understand the point, get back to me. S. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
David Nelson wrote (09-10-11 14:55) Norbert, it would be good if you read things carefully and accurately. Cor, it would be good if you did not jump to conclusions. David, it would be good if you just understood the point ;-) Norbert and Cor, it would be polite and in keeping with the bylaws and election rules if you allowed me to put my questions to the candidates without butting in. Thank you, guys. It is not about stopping you or anyone else to ask questions. It is about whether this question is relevant for the elections. Trying to explain it again in other words: The BOD is about steering the foundation. Might the opinion in the BOD be, that there is a problem in e.g. the documentation area, then they will do what is within their means to improve the work in that area. Whether an individual wants to work on documentation, is not related to ones candidacy/membership of the BOD. It might be relevant to know if an individual finds documentation important, and maybe also if she thinks improvement in that area is a good idea. But again, that is not the same as that individual working on (in this example) on documentation. On the contrary: if the BOD thinks more documentation is needed, they try to find others (i.e. people not in the role as BOD member) willing to step in and do the job. Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Cor, Apparently you enjoy an argument. :-D I wasn't going to write further to this thread, but apparently you need to have the last word, and I don't see why you should. I'll explain why below. My only mistake in writing to the candidates was that I continued in the threads they started on this SC list, and election rule #6 says, All discussion related to the elections should be held on disc...@documentfoundation.org. Members are invited to ask questions to one or all candidates on that list. But that's maybe the candidates' fault, too, because I guess they should have posted their candidate statements to the discuss list rather than the SC list. No matter, further discussions about the original subject can be continued there. However, I just re-read the election rules and the bylaws, and there is absolutely nothing to say that the questions I asked Thorsten, Michael and Caolan were out of order. So you have absolutely no justification in trying to lay down the rules about this. This is an election, right? And the candidates are asking for our votes and invited our questions, right? So I would say I'm entitled to ask them whatever is close to my concerns and interests. And, for their part, they have the right to answer what they like, or even not to answer at all if that's their preference. The rules that we all have to keep to are the rules of courtesy, friendliness and decent behavior. From that viewpoint, I'm perfectly within bounds. So why do you feel that I'm only allowed to broach subjects that *you* feel are acceptable? Don't you feel you're a little out of line here? Because I definitely think you are. I'm rather disappointed by the development of this thread. And I don't think it was a welcome event in the first BoD election. Please allow me to remind you of some relevant clauses of the community bylaws: There are no differences of equality between Members, even though certain Members may be granted particular powers, appointed to certain roles and responsibilities, and entrusted with access to certain Community resources. Every Member is expected to always remember that he/she is part of an egalitarian Community of which a key guiding principle is public service, and that membership is a status which is truly earned through contributive work, not something acquired by unproductive activities such as idle posting to mailing lists and forums, etc. Every Member is expected to deal with other Community Members and with our end users with courtesy, forbearance, objectivity, open-mindedness, friendliness, understanding, patience and goodwill. I don't think you're putting all that into practice. Therefore, I'd propose that we don't post further to this thread and, if you want to continue the discussion, we should continue on the discuss list. Sigh... We've lost many contributors to the project over the past 8-10 months, but I had thought that the upside of that shedding of interested community members was that communication within the project had improved to a more-mature level than the flaming discussions of the first few months... Please read the above as meant in a friendly manner, although I am exercising my right to intellectually disagree with you. :-) I regret that I won't be at the conference, or I would definitely buy you a beer to show you that there are no hard feelings on my side. ;-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi Michael, Please let me start by thanking you for your past service on the SC, and your important contributions to TDF and the LibreOffice project. I would like to ask whether you would be willing to make a commitment for a term of office on the BoD. I am certain that you will assure us that you support openness of the source code of LibreOffice. But I would like to put it to you that no software source code is truly open until it has been rendered as understandable as possible to as many people as possible. This is not yet the case with the source code of LibreOffice. There is no global design documentation available to someone who would like to learn to hack it. The devs have made some progress towards documenting the code base, but only at a more-microscopic level (the API documentation at http://docs.libreoffice.org, for example). But, IMHO, it would be extremely valuable to have more-global documentation outlining the architecture and working of the code base and its various components and modules. The solution of interested individuals gleaning knowledge by lurking and asking questions on IRC is not an effective and community-oriented method of sharing knowledge. Would you be willing to commit yourself to actively work with me on developing global design documentation that will be a major asset to any party wanting to start hacking the core and developing extensions? I am thinking of something along the lines of: - a global description of the architecture of LibreOffice; - a global description of the architecture of the LibreOffice programs, Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw, Math and Base; - a listing of all the libraries and components used in the software, and an explanation of why they are used and what they do; - a description of the differences between the versions of LibreOffice for *nix, Mac and Windows; - whatever other material that your expertise as a core dev tells you is useful and needed for genuinely opening up the source code to the world in the broadest possible sense. This could usefully be a collaborative initiative actively worked on by Caolan McNamara, Thorsten Behrens and Michael Meeks. Please may I ask your thoughts about this idea and whether you would explicitly agree to be part of it? In any case, wishing you all the best and, again, thanking you for your past work for us. :-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi Jesus, 2011/10/8 Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org: In my opinion, I don't think it's best for the project to put some of the most skilled developers to work in documentation, when other developers can also do this task perfectly well. It is precisely these guys who could put the most effective work into this initiative, and probably the fastest. I'm asking the potential future members of the BoD to lead the way on this. Documentation is always considered to be some kind of unnecessary-to-optional accompaniment to software -- unless you're some poor blighter trying to understand how the thing works. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi David, On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 4:38 PM, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz wrote: Hi Jesus, 2011/10/8 Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org: In my opinion, I don't think it's best for the project to put some of the most skilled developers to work in documentation, when other developers can also do this task perfectly well. It is precisely these guys who could put the most effective work into this initiative, and probably the fastest. I'm asking the potential future members of the BoD to lead the way on this. Documentation is always considered to be some kind of unnecessary-to-optional accompaniment to software -- unless you're some poor blighter trying to understand how the thing works. I think your proposal is interesting and I really see your point here, but, at the same time, I'd create a group of people with different skill levels to work on it. I don't deny that it will not be as effective, but I could also be a chance for wannabe developers to learn a lot about the project while they work in benefit of the community. Just my two cents :) -- Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org Document Foundation founding member Mobile: +34 661 11 38 26 Skype: jcorrius | Twitter: @jcorrius -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Jesus, I'm hoping to see from three of our leading devs who are candidates for the BoD how committed they are to *Open Source* software. ;-) Open the doors wider, and more people might come in. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
On 10/8/11 5:12 PM, David Nelson wrote: I'm hoping to see from three of our leading devs who are candidates for the BoD how committed they are to *Open Source* software. ;-) I do not think that this discussion should happen during the election time, as it might have an influence on the election outcome based on parametres which are not relevant for being a director (based on bylaws). On the other hand, improving our documentation - in general - is a very important objective for the entire project, and therefore I suggest to bring this idea to the attention of the SC/BoD. In a few days, we are going to meet face to face in Paris, and we have the opportunity of discussing many topics. Best, Italo -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hi Italo, On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com wrote: I do not think that this discussion should happen during the election time, as it might have an influence on the election outcome based on parametres which are not relevant for being a director (based on bylaws). I regret that I don't really agree. People are standing as candidates for the BoD and TDF members have a right to ask questions and learn what candidate's policies and attitudes are with regard to issues of concrete importance to the community... It's for sure that candidates answers to community members' questions should indeed have an influence on the outcome of the election, no? ;-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hello David, Le Sat, 8 Oct 2011 18:39:13 +0300, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz a écrit : Hi Italo, On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com wrote: I do not think that this discussion should happen during the election time, as it might have an influence on the election outcome based on parametres which are not relevant for being a director (based on bylaws). I regret that I don't really agree. People are standing as candidates for the BoD and TDF members have a right to ask questions and learn what candidate's policies and attitudes are with regard to issues of concrete importance to the community... It's for sure that candidates answers to community members' questions should indeed have an influence on the outcome of the election, no? ;-) I'll let the candidates you have asked your question to answer. I had one question for you though: will you be in Paris next week? Best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hi Charles, On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: I'll let the candidates you have asked your question to answer. I had one question for you though: will you be in Paris next week? Sadly not. :-( I'm wrapped up in a client project for which the deadline is the 14th, and the geographical distances between us would not allow me to make it there on time... :-( -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hi Norbert, On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Norbert Thiebaud nthieb...@gmail.com wrote: But here you are taking advantage of the fact that these candidates happen to also be core developer to corner them. Of course. :-) That's politics right? But seriously, this is - to me, a non-dev but someone who would dearly like to be able to step across the threshold - a crucial issue. Perhaps established devs do not see it like that. But, as a technical documentation professional, perhaps I see it in a different light. In any case, I can tell you - and you perhaps already know this well through your own work - in a commercial environment, programmers are generally expected - *contractually required* - to properly document their product, especially from the design and maintenance viewpoint. For me, the LibreOffice project can only gain in credibility and numbers of hackers from having design documentation that opens the doors to a much larger number of code contributors and maintainers. Fed up with hearing people demanding features that can't be implemented or that you don't have time to implement? Provide good design documentation and a) they might understand better the reasons for the non-feasibility or b) they might start offering more patches and practical contributions to implementation. I realise that some people will feel that this design documentation will be a non-optimal usage of valuable core dev time, and will hold up (only slightly) dev work. But I am convinced that it will bring real fruits in terms of contributor recruitment - more individual hackers but also enterprise/organizational contributors. I also feel it will enhance the project's image and credibility, and will set an important example in the Open Source community in general and to our audiences in particular. The availability of decent design documentation can certainly be a deciding factor for many potential organizational and enterprise adopters. Their candidacy to the Board and the task they propose to tackle is completely orthogonal to your proposal, the best proof is that you did not ask such commitment from Italo. Sincerely, I feel that, as a TDF member, I have every right - duty even - to inform myself about the policies and attitudes of the candidates, and to see what their responses are to my specific requests. Voilà, with a friendly smile. :-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: Michael Meeks
Hi :) One of the top priorities for the Documentation Team right now is a guide to help people that want to start programming for LibreOffice. There is already a good one for Extensions but most of the scattered things we have for programmers are apparently for OpenOffice when it was under Sun. LibreOffice has significantly improved things, for example the Easy Hacks and probably details about the infrastructure and work-flow. At the moment the Docs Team can only point to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Other_Documentation_and_Resources Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 8/10/11, Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org wrote: From: Jesús Corrius Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board: To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Date: Saturday, 8 October, 2011, 15:33 This could usefully be a collaborative initiative actively worked on by Caolan McNamara, Thorsten Behrens and Michael Meeks. In my opinion, I don't think it's best for the project to put some of the most skilled developers to work in documentation, when other developers can also do this task perfectly well. Jesús Corrius -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board
Hi, :-) Minor addition after a few hours sleep and before starting work: This kind of design documentation is really essential for various reasons. What would happen if there was some kind of disaster and we were to lose the essential core of our lead devs for some horrible reason? We'd be scuppered. Among the other members of the LibreOffice project, is there anyone who knows how the thing works? Is there any record, useable by a non-geek, of the state of evolution of the code base? We say that people are free to take the source and do what they want with it, but - at the moment - they'd have to reverse engineer the whole code base. How open is that? No, I apologise for insisting, and I realise that this initiative will take some initial footwork, and will require on-going maintenance, but it really should be considered to be essential work. But I firmly believe there will be a pay-off in quite a few ways. In any case, I'll be at the next couple of SC/BoD meetings to follow up and discuss the idea. Bonne journée, les amis. :-) -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board of Directors
Hi Olivier, I recognize you as an important person for the propagation of LibreOffice, specially in Brazil, for your performance inside and outside of TDF. You never refused to perform you role as a member from TDF, neither to promote LibreOffice in all possible instances. You got my vote, dude! ;-) Best, David 2011/9/29 Jomar Silva homem...@gmail.com Excellent, Olivier ! I truly believe that you are a key person in LO development and adoption in Brazil, and I support your candidacy. Best, Jomar -Original Message- From: Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org Sender: olivier.hallot@gmail.com Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:08:12 To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org; disc...@documentfoundation.org Reply-To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: [steering-discuss] Candidacy for Board of Directors I thereby announce my candidacy for a Board of Directors seat at the Document Foundation My name is Olivier Hallot, I am a 53 old electronic engineer living in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. I am a former researcher and executive of IBM and Oracle. I am involved with open source software since 2001, where I started working into the translation of OpenOffice.org for Brazilian Portuguese. I am a former member of the OpenOffice.org Community Council and founder of The Document Foundation, as well as a member of the Steering Committee. Today I am working as consultant in a large LibreOffice deployment project in a Brazilian enterprise and I am advising several LibreOffice projects and initiatives in Brazil. My Document Foundation resumé Since early 2010 I got involved into the design and birth of the Document Foundation and I became member of the Steering Committee since the beginning. During the last 12 month I have been participating into the decisions of the SC and I worked to allocate as much Brazilian resources as I could to TDF. I still hold the position of translator for Brazilian Portuguese (a market place well above one million users) and I have contributed into several bug reports and features lists necessary for large enterprise deployments. I also did some bug fixing directly into the code, less than I would like to, but time is short and the matter is complex. I have used my professional connections to leverage LibreOffice and TDF in many public companies and in government and I am actively pursuing the goal to increase the number of contributors to LO development. Why am I applying for the BoD? After one year of existence, the enormous amount of TDF members energy and sharp professionalism lead us to great achievements. We rock. The road ahead however seems to be another challenge for the Foundation: Secure the positions already obtained and move to address the needs of the multiple faces of the community, from individuals to enterprises, while understanding the marketplaces forces that will drive TDF ahead. Of great importance, it will be necessary to design and implement the correct business model for the Foundation sustainability and LibreOffice evolution. These are fields I am willing to contribute with my industry experience, connections and personal energy. I am available for further questions. Kind regards -- Olivier Hallot Founder and Steering Commitee Member The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
