Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > The point there was that the primary subject currently under discussion > (both here and nationally) is reform of the US health care/insurance system. I understand that. But my question is, as long as we are giving out charitable health c

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 09:36 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > How about first addressing what you propose for everyone _in the U.S._ who > cannot afford such things (other than by going to the ER at the county > charity hospital at a charge to _someo

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > How about first addressing what you propose for everyone _in the U.S._ who > cannot afford such things (other than by going to the ER at the county > charity hospital at a charge to _someone_ of something like $1K a visit?) Why are people

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 07:00 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, Bruce Bostwick wrote: On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:12 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM, David Hobby wrote: > This is why I've quit talking with you about > health insurance. When pressed, your

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 08:15 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > Beyond proposals, though, there is a very strong argument to be made that > it's inhumane to simply leave people to die if they can't find insurance > coverage to pay for medical care that

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 07:58 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, Rceeberger wrote: On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > > > We do not tax everyone in the world, so they do not need to be > considered as part of this discussion. > > "We" do not

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 07:16 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > If not, what exactly *do* you > propose as an alternative to public-option health care for people who aren't > fortunate enough to be able to afford health insurance that will actually > c

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:11 PM, John Williams wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rceeberger wrote: >>> >>> On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger wr

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:30 PM, John Williams wrote: Prove that you are actively supporting those people with every cent you can spare on par with what you suggest to Bruce. You obviously have a computer, therefore you are a hypocrite. I am not advocating taking other people's money, as Bruce di

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:11 PM, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rceeberger wrote: On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger wrote: We do not tax everyone in the world, so they do not need to be co

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > Prove that you are actively supporting those people with every cent you can > spare on par with what you suggest to Bruce. > You obviously have a computer, therefore you are a hypocrite. I am not advocating taking other people's money, as Bruce

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On 9/6/2009 8:15:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Bruce Bostwick > wrote: > > > Beyond proposals, though, there is a very strong argument to be made > that > > it's inhumane to simply leave people to die if they can't find > insurance > > cov

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > > On 9/6/2009 8:11:40 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rceeberger wrote: >> > >> > On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rc

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

Consider people who advocate taking other people's money and using it to help those in need. It is interesting to look at what percentage of those people's own money they actually spend helping those in need. http://tsfiles.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/charity-donations-and-liberal-hypocricy/ That we

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On 9/6/2009 8:11:40 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > > > > On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger > wrote: > >> > >> > We do not tax everyone in t

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > Beyond proposals, though, there is a very strong argument to be made that > it's inhumane to simply leave people to die if they can't find insurance > coverage to pay for medical care that costs hundreds of times what they > could afford on t

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On 9/6/2009 7:59:34 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > > > It > isn't "the" government. It is 50 (or 49 depending on how you are looking at > the question) governments involved. > > 50 (or 49) times more reforms to start with

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > > On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger wrote: >> >> > We do not tax everyone in the world, so they do not need to be >> considered as part of this discussion. >> >> "W

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sep 6, 2009, at 7:16 PM, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Bruce Bostwick> wrote: If not, what exactly *do* you propose as an alternative to public-option health care for people who aren't fortunate enough to be able to afford health insurance that will actually cove

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > It isn't "the" government. It is 50 (or 49 depending on how you are looking > at the question) governments involved. 50 (or 49) times more reforms to start with before reforms involving taking more of people's money! __

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On 9/6/2009 7:47:52 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > > > We do not tax everyone in the world, so they do not need to be > considered as part of this discussion. > > "We" do not tax everyone in the US, so are you proposing no

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: > But, if I were to pay > as myself, then any health issues would put me in the 40k/year bracket.  I > could probably afford it, but most folks can't.  So, after one big illness, > you're dropped, and that's it. The problems you are

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On 9/6/2009 7:45:14 PM, John Williams (jwilliams4...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Bruce Bostwick > wrote: > > > Freedom of choice is never absolute. > > Especially when the government prevents people from providing free > health care to others. > > http://www.wbir.com/new

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Rceeberger wrote: > We do not tax everyone in the world, so they do not need to be considered as > part of this discussion. "We" do not tax everyone in the US, so are you proposing not to provide health care to the about 50% of the US population that (net) does no

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

Original Message: - From: John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 17:28:02 -0700 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: DeLong on health insurance reform On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: >> Or, for an even darker scenario, how abo

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > Freedom of choice is never absolute. Especially when the government prevents people from providing free health care to others. http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=96009&catid=2 | "We tried to get a waiver to bring in good ol'

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:12 PM, John Williams wrote: > >> Really? Would you literally come to my house with a gun and force me >> to give you money, telling me that you know better who it should be >> spent on than I do? > > If your idea of how to

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > Or, for an even darker scenario, how about the people who can't quit or, God > forbid, be fired from their job because if they do they'll lose the only > insurance that will cover them Which is almost entirely the result of the poor governme

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

>What exactly do you propose for everyone in the world who cannot >afford basic health care such as childbirth assistance and infant care >and vaccination? Well, Iraq showed how hard it is to help folks by forcing out bad governments. My foster daughter Neli and I have talked on how best governm

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > If not, what exactly *do* you > propose as an alternative to public-option health care for people who aren't > fortunate enough to be able to afford health insurance that will actually > cover treatments? What exactly do you propose for every

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:12 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM, David Hobby wrote: > This is why I've quit talking with you about > health insurance. When pressed, your bottom > line seems to be "taxation equals theft".

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:12 PM, John Williams wrote: Really? Would you literally come to my house with a gun and force me to give you money, telling me that you know better who it should be spent on than I do? If your idea of how to spend it involves leaving people to the nonexistent mercy of a

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sep 6, 2009, at 4:21 PM, John Williams wrote: Taking away my money against my will and limiting my choices for what kind of health care I can purchase is taking away my freedom of choice. Freedom of choice is never absolute. And it is always limited by the need to balance that freedom wi

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

Original Message: - From: Ronn! Blankenship ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:27:28 -0500 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: DeLong on health insurance reform >Some people fear that government-run health care will feature all the >cleanline

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 05:36 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, Nick Arnett wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Ronn! Blankenship < ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote: Some people fear that government-run health care will feature all the cleanliness and maintenance standards of Walter Reed combined with the prompt servic

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 05:12 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, John Williams wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM, David Hobby wrote: > This is why I've quit talking with you about > health insurance. When pressed, your bottom > line seems to be "taxation equals theft". What I have written is that taxation (taking someone's m

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:42 PM, John Williams wrote: > > Say I have two $1 bills. I could choose to go to McDonald's and buy a > burger and fries. > > Now someone takes one of my dollars. Takes *how*? Nothing like leaving out the critical element of the metaphor. Nick _

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:12 PM, John Williams > wrote: >> >> What I have written is that taxation (taking someone's money) limits a >> person's freedom. That is obviously true. > > There is nothing obviously true about it, Say I have two $1

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 04:42 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: Original Message: - From: John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 14:00:11 -0700 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: DeLong on health insurance reform On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:35 PM, dsummersmi

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Ronn! Blankenship < ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > Some people fear that government-run health care will feature all the > cleanliness and maintenance standards of Walter Reed combined with the > prompt service for which the DMV is famous and the compa

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:12 PM, John Williams wrote: > > What I have written is that taxation (taking someone's money) limits a > person's freedom. That is obviously true. There is nothing obviously true about it, except that the person is free of paying taxes. That's not political freedom, it

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

At 04:09 PM Sunday 9/6/2009, Nick Arnett wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:00 PM, John Williams wrote: No, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about freedom to choose what to do with one's money. Me, too.  Freedom for a nation to choose what to do with it

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 3:08 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: > Actually, as David's post indicates, you are probably in a minority in > considering that the principal under discussion. Actually, that was the principle under discussion with Nick. You conveniently left out the quote. > I would

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM, David Hobby wrote: > This is why I've quit talking with you about > health insurance.  When pressed, your bottom > line seems to be "taxation equals theft". What I have written is that taxation (taking someone's money) limits a person's freedom. That is obviously t

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

> >>Even if everyone voted democratically to make some minority of people >>slaves, that does not make slavery freedom. > > Paying taxes != slavery.  You are more than free to leave.  You can't be > bought or sold. >The principle under discussion was whether a democratic vote is >equivalent to "fr

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:42 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: >>> Now, you've argued that's its the intangibles that matter most, > >>Where have I written that? > > The last time I brought up these data. How about a quote? ___ http://mccmedia.com/ma

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:37 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: > >>Even if everyone voted democratically to make some minority of people >>slaves, that does not make slavery freedom. > > Paying taxes != slavery.  You are more than free to leave.  You can't be > bought or sold. The principle unde

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

John Williams wrote: ... Taking away my money against my will and limiting my choices for what kind of health care I can purchase is taking away my freedom of choice. ... John-- This is why I've quit talking with you about health insurance. When pressed, your bottom line seems to be "taxation

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

Original Message: - From: John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 14:00:11 -0700 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: DeLong on health insurance reform On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:35 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: >Actually, consumer driven health c

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, John Williams wrote: > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: > > > How can you insist that for a nation to choose to provide health care to > all > > of its citizens is taking away freedom? > > Taking away my money against my will and limiting my choice

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

>Even if everyone voted democratically to make some minority of people >slaves, that does not make slavery freedom. Paying taxes != slavery. You are more than free to leave. You can't be bought or sold. Dan M. mail2web - Ch

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: > How can you insist that for a nation to choose to provide health care to all > of its citizens is taking away freedom? Taking away my money against my will and limiting my choices for what kind of health care I can purchase is taking away my fr

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:00 PM, John Williams wrote: > > No, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about freedom to > choose what to do with one's money. Me, too. Freedom for a nation to choose what to do with its money, just like corporations and people are free to choose. How can

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM, John Williams > wrote: >> >> Aren't almost all companies "worried about making money for >> themselves"? Seems to work out all right to me. > > No, all companies aren't.  I'm on the board of a $10 million com

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:35 PM, dsummersmi...@comcast.net wrote: > Actually, that's not what the opposition to health care reform is coming > from. Actually, consumer driven health care supporters are where some of the opposition to additional government control of the health care market is comin

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM, John Williams wrote: > > Aren't almost all companies "worried about making money for > themselves"? Seems to work out all right to me. > No, all companies aren't. I'm on the board of a $10 million company that seeks to make not a cent of profit. My family's insu

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

Original Message: - From: John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:46:44 -0700 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: DeLong on health insurance reform On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: > The link was broken for me, but from what

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: > The link was broken for me, but from what you quoted above it seems > we'd all need 2 or three insurance policies, I'd love to have enough choice with health insurance to have multiple policies tailored to my needs. > a medical account and

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 9:23 AM, John Williams wrote: > DeLong (the other one) on health care costs and health insurance reform. > > http://american.com/archive/2009/maybe-we-should-spend-more-on-healthcare They changed the link. Here is the new one: http://american.com/archive/2009/august/maybe-w

Re: DeLong on health insurance reform

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:23 AM, John Williams wrote: > DeLong (the other one) on health care costs and health insurance reform. > > http://american.com/archive/2009/maybe-we-should-spend-more-on-healthcare > > | So what should be done about healthcare costs? Many things, including > | a phaseout of

DeLong on health insurance reform

DeLong (the other one) on health care costs and health insurance reform. http://american.com/archive/2009/maybe-we-should-spend-more-on-healthcare | So what should be done about healthcare costs? Many things, including | a phaseout of employment-based health insurance in favor of other | policies

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