Re: Habitable Planets: was Notes on Uplift
On Friday 2004-01-09 05:34, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: If there are 2M inhabited planets then there are 14M fallow planets. At any given time there must be a total of 16M habitable planets. Ok, 700ky, or 1My, don't change the final numbers very much -Total O-2 habitable planets now --- leased:fallow --- natural:terraformed --- proportion of A, B, C and homeworld leases. --- Mean number of planets per citizen race --- fairness in distributing leases. I also think we came to some figures here. 2M *leased* planets, about 10 per citizen race. No comments on the ratio of terraformed to natural or what kinds of leases. With regard to planets I visit: http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html Some of the factors in Drake's equation are still _extremely_ innacurate. N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL N: communicating life. N*: number of stars, site suggests 100 * 10^9 for Milky Way alone fp: fraction of stars with planets Seems close to 1 :-) ne: number of planets where life can exist Seems close to 1/10^11 :-) fl: fraction where life evolves fi: fraction were intelligent life evolves fc: fraction that can and do communicate fL: fraction of timewhere communicating civilization exists Galactics will colonize any planet where life evolves. fi, fc, and fL are irrelevant for calculating planets under GIM control. In fact, these numbers _do_ apply to Uplift. fl is 1, because the Progenitors fed the planets with life. fi is 2/[total number of species that ever existed] if you accept Earthclan's supersticions, or 1/[total] if you are an Awaiter. Otherwise, this question is anathema. (Alternatively fi=1, all planets with life get infested with intelligent life. fc=1, all inhabited planets participate in Galcatic Civilization. 0.12 fL .1 since inhabitable planets spend most of their existence in fallow.) Ok. Ngim = N* fp ne fl N* = 100*10^9 per SETI fp = 0.2 (conservative per SETI) ne = 1 (conservative per SETI) SETIst are optmistic fanatics :-) fl = 0.0001 (pretty conservative, but then the GIM is only interested in planets with *complex* life.) fl can be any number :-) That gives us 2M *naturally* existing planets in the Milky Way controled by the GIM and 10M naturally occuring planets under GIM control through five galaxies. If 4/5 of all GIM controlled planets are terrformed then we wind up with 50M GIM planets in five galaxies. Ok. But it's better to go back and set the Drake factors based on what we want to get in the end. Excellent idea! N* = 100*10^9 (that is, 1.00E+11) fp = .75 (most systems have planets) ne = .25 (few could support life, partly a cheat factor) fl = 3.00E-05 (3/100,000 have life, entirely a cheat factor. Implies there are a lot of terraforming candidates) fi = 1 (ALL good planets get colonized) fc = 1 (If colonized, the setlers participate in O-2 Civ.) fL = .125 (7 times out of 8 a planet is fallow) This gives the number of planets that could *naturally* support life in the Milky Way N = 7.03E+04 5 galaxies Total natural planets under GIM control = 2.81E+06 Total natural GIM leased planets = 5N = 3.52E+05 Natural/Terraformed = 1/6 Total GIM planets (B or C leasable) = 1.69E+07 (We don't count A class leases because they are in need of terraforming.) Total GIM B or C leases at present time = 2.11E+06 Giving us about 11.1 planets per race, which is close enough to 10. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Parity: was Notes on Uplift
On Friday 2004-01-09 03:46, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: There are two sorts of instability. One level of instability is at the level of the lineage. The other is the stablity of the inter-species political order. Moderate or serious disparities in wealth curves mean that a lot of lineages die out. Having lineages die out is not necessarily a problem for Galactic political stability. In real life lineages are usually short lived--even in lineage oriented societies like the middle east or in Samoa. Political instability results when MAJOR lines die out. When the King dies without issues you get wars of succession. Ok. But it seems that in the Uplift Universe few lineages die, or there would be more aliances based on ancestry than on religious faith. Why? In uplift a races primary alliance is (usually) based on lineage. Its secondary alliance tends to be ideological. Lineage is small but strong, religion is big but weak. But it is _very_ unstable. I claim that the rate should be quite close to 1 client : 1 patron, so that _most_ lines would be mantained for long periods of time. Lets talk in terms of total clients uplifted during a patron's main sequence existence. In that case a replacement rate of one under total fairness gives this histogram. Ok, I get your point without the histograms :-) I propose: So, you would have 35% of _all_ species failing to have a client? That's too much IMHO. What about: [ 0- 20) : 0 clients --- some don't want clients --- some shouldn't have clients (a form of uplift failure) --- some get cheated out of clients (the Uplift universe ain't fair) [20- 88) : 1 client [88- 92) : 2 clients [92- 95) : 3 clients [95- 98) : 4 clients [98- 99) : 5 clients [99-100) : 6+ clients Having more that 8 or 9 clients is quite rare. If I did this right it should work out to about 1.1 client per patron. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: TV Editing
It seems like the editing reported it exactly how it is. Dean plainly said that listening to other peoples' arguments for eight hours would be a waste of time for ordinary people - because they can't be convinced. JDG At 12:54 AM 1/10/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/003038.html TV Editing All day long we've seen the television news repeating a short edited segment of a single line taken from a Canadian television show. Here's the full transcript. The discussion centered around the pros and cons of caucuses and primaries: Dean: On a Saturday, is it easy for me to go cast a ballot and spend 15 minutes doing it, or do I have to sit in a caucus for 8 hours? Guest: This is a good thing, though. Dean: I don't think so. I don't have the time to do it. It doesn't get people involved. It drives people out of the process, and leaves the people who are left in the process -- the professional people who get paid to be there. Guest: Let the people in the neighborhoods convince you, say... Dean: They can't convince me. I've got my kid's soccer game. I've got my second job. I've got all these other reasons that I can't do these things. Guest: If that's the case, the 15 minutes you're going to devote to politics in your year is a pretty perfunctory involvement in politics. Dean: Not necessarily. I read the papers, maybe I watch television. I form my opinions, I get to go exercise my opinion. But I can't stand there and listen to everyone else's opinion for eight hours about how to fix the world. Compare this to the way it is reported on television: NBC Voice Over: Dean even suggested the caucuses were a waste of time for ordinary people Dean: I can't stand there and listen to everyone else's opinion for eight hours about how to fix the world. The power of editing to create a story. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:29:34 -0600 Cry ribbit! and unleash the frogs of war. (I own a button with this on it.) Julia lol That's so nerdy it's actually kinda cool... -Travis kinda Edmunds _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/featurespgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:28:48 -0600 Travis Edmunds wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:28:44 -0600 Quick question: Have you seen Blade Runner and read _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_? Julia Nope. Any good? I ask because it goes back to the movie based on the book discussion. Blade Runner is based on _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_. The movie took all sorts of liberties and did a lot of really cool stuff, and I'm wondering what you'll think of it all once you've seen the movie and read the book. Julia yes, that was a suggestion You see, I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my age. I'm only 21, and I'm only now beginning to immerse myself into the things I really enjoy. -Travis _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review
From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:25:45 -0800 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Edmunds Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 08:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review Yes and no. I agree with what Jeffrey said pretty much 100%, but my point is completely different, rendering Jeffries argument's inconsequential. *grin* I love being inconsequential. It takes all the responsibility off me ^_^ lol That my friend, is an interesting statement. I hope you don't terribly mind if I use it my travels? As for the responsibility of this particular topic in the here and now, it falls to you. A question has been left unanswered... If you specifically look at what he said, and compare it to my question posed the other day, you will understand my point of view. Y'know, Travis, several of us did just that, and still didn't understand. That's why we asked you to elaborate a little. :( -j- I refuse to elaborate until such time as you, Jeffrey overextend yourself and answer my question. I have this strange feeling though, that you have already overextended yourself in supporting your own argument. You are not completely to blame however, as your points are good points. Also they are truthful, in-depth views of art and artistic interpretation. But they simply don't apply to what I say. -Travis nothing personal Edmunds Give me a man or woman who has read a thousand books, and you give me an interesting companion. Give me a man or woman who has read perhaps three, and you give me a dangerous enemy indeed. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: An interesting tidbit of information.
From: Miller, Jeffrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: An interesting tidbit of information. Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 12:28:15 -0800 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Edmunds Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 09:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: An interesting tidbit of information. A local author, Kenneth J. Harvey, who actually lives just down the road from me (Small-town Newfoundland) has been included in five Best of 2003 lists for his latest novel titled The Town That Forgot How To Breathe. Hey, there's been some buzz here at AMZN US HQ about that book.. I really should read it. It's supposed to be a Stephen King type book, which makes it kinda interesting (waiting for something from Robertlol), especially since I've heard through various sources that many of the characters are based upon people from the local town in which he and I live. Harvey's book explores how outport Newfoundland is in danger of losing touch with it's past, Wasn't Newfoundland where the CA government cut off all the shipping of food supplies to in the 50's, or something? Some sort of economic embargo? -j the most famous author I know is Alison Bechdell, who really IS Moe miller- Ah.not that I know of. Besides I don't think it would happen. Especially since we joined Canada (aka CONFEDERATION) in 1949. -Travis the population is a mild few hundred where I live Edmunds _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: What Not to Do During LOTRs
Subject: [Larryniven-l] OT: What Not to Do During LOTRs Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 09:34:32 - From: Nesssus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Larry Niven Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ln-l [EMAIL PROTECTED] Originally posted: http://stupidevilbastard.com/archives/2003/11/20/what_not_to_do_during_return_of_the_king.php [Some Return of the King spoilers ahead...] 1. Stand up halfway through the movie and yell loudly, Wait... where the hell is Harry Potter? 2. Block the entrance to the theater while screaming: YOU SHALL NOT PASS! - After the movie, say Lucas could have done it better. 3. Play a drinking game where you have to take a sip every time someone says: The Ring. 4. Point and laugh whenever someone dies. 5. Ask everyone around you if they think Gandalf went to Hogwarts. 6. Finish off every one of Elrond's lines with Mr. Anderson. 7. When Aragorn is crowned king, stand up and at the top of your lungs sing, And I did it MY way...! 8. Talk like Gollum all through the movie. At the end, bite off someone's finger and fall down the stairs. 9. Dress up as old ladies and reenact The Battle of Helms Deep Monty Python style. 10. When Denethor lights the fire, shout Barbecue! 11. In TTT when the Ents decide to march to war, stand up and shout RUN FOREST, RUN! 12. Every time someone kills an Orc, yell: That's what I'm Tolkien about! See how long it takes before you get kicked out of the theatre. 13. During a wide shot of a battle, inquire, Where's Waldo? 14. Talk loudly about how you heard that there is a single frame of a nude Elf hidden somewhere in the movie. 15. Start an Orc sing-a-long. 16. Come to the premiere dressed as Frankenfurter and wander around looking terribly confused. 17. When they go in the paths of the dead, wait for tense moment and shout, I see dead people! 18. Imitate what you think a conversation between Gollum, Dobby and Yoda would be like. 19. Release a jar of daddy-long-legs into the theater during the Shelob scene. 20. Wonder out loud if Aragorn is going to run for governor of California. 21. When Shelob comes on, exclaim, Man! Charlotte's really let herself go! __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: TV Editing
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 8:24 AM Subject: Re: TV Editing It seems like the editing reported it exactly how it is. Dean plainly said that listening to other peoples' arguments for eight hours would be a waste of time for ordinary people - because they can't be convinced. JDG No John. What Dean is saying is that the caucus' last longer than most people have time for. Quote: Dean: I don't think so. I don't have the time to do it. It doesn't get people involved. It drives people out of the process, and leaves the people who are left in the process -- the professional people who get paid to be there. End Quote Therefore the caucus' are preaching to a mostly empty audience. People are busy doing other things. Most of the people! The most you are going to get out of the American public is a few minutes of TV news and that only on *some* days. So basically we are electing people on the basis of paid political announcements and fifteen second soundbytes. There are people who are politically active and others who watch tons of news, but these people are such a small minority that they have little actual impact since only the news junkies are swayable to any appreciable degree. So for the most part everyone votes along party lines and the only movement of those lines within the population is due to the application of soundbytes and the steady drumming of partisans like Limbaugh and Fox News. (Or maybe even Al Franken to some degree. I'm not sure how much impact he has if any.) xponent Sad State Of Politics Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review
You see, I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my age. I'm only 21, and I'm only now beginning to immerse myself into the things I really enjoy. -Travis Ahhh.Well that explains a lot. G There is nothing wrong with being young except that you are at a bit of a disadvantage when talking to people who have had much more time to explore the world. The young think they know everything and are uninhibited in expressing that. Older people are much the same, but experience gives one reason to have doubts that The Facts are set in stone. To me, they seem to be set in silly putty and are waiting for a new days paradigm. Please don't take the above as criticism, its an observation based of remembrances of my youth. I think a lot of the older people here could say similar things phrased in a quite different way. G The present makes the past look different In any case I appreciate the energy you bring to the discussions and your unique point of view. xponent Old Enough To Be Your Father Ya Little Scalawag Maru rob G ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Very good! In fact, so good I'll let you explain the rest of the statement of the Poincare Conjecture . . . ;-) ... I have a vision of producing a definition tree for the word homeomorphism, which I'll write as an outline: homeomorphism bicontinuous continuous open set (undefined term) inverse image ... And I'm sure I left some stuff out. ---David -- Ronn! :) Who has his hands full on another list attempting to explain causality violation to laypeople . . . No, I just do outlines. I'm getting to like the idea, since it shows just how much work it is to really understand theorems. And I'm carefully leaving out all of the logic, as well. ---David No, I won't define sphere. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Core wins Stupid Movie Physics Award
http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/ The Core is a marvel. It has everything: common physics misconceptions, blatant misrepresentations of physical laws, a complete range of stereotypes, ridiculous feats of engineering, and pure fabrication of scientific facts. The weighty or sad parts are so inane, they made us laugh out loud. The dialog, plot, and action are predictable, if not outright tedious. Yet, the bad physics provide nonstop surprises. It's the worst physics movie we've ever viewed. It's so bad, it's almost entertaining. We meet Geophysicist Dr. Josh Keyes (Aaron Eckhart) as he's demonstrating how sound travels at different speeds through various types of rock. The scene plays as though it came from the memory of a ninth grade physical science student who mostly slept through class. It has bits and pieces of scientific facts blended with pure concoction arranged in a dream-like manner We see an image of an oscilloscope with squiggly lines from a microphone picking up Keyes voice. Keyes correctly explains that when sound travels into higher density material its wavelength increases. He then throws in some pure nonsense about it also losing frequency. He points a trumpet at a slab of rock and proceeds to play random off-key notes supposedly to demonstrate some property of the rock. This type of demo can show a representation of the sound waves produced by musical instruments. However, the instrument has to be played with a single continuous note. In such a demo, the oscilloscope displays sound intensity versus time. To calculate the speed of sound we would need distance versus time data. We're at a loss to explain what Keyes is really trying to do but are forced to give him the benefit of the doubt since he's snatched from class by federal agents before completing his demo. Keyes is whisked off to a secret location where he joins up with fellow scientist Serge Leveque (Tcheky Karyo) and is met by General Thomas Purcell (Richard Jenkins). It seems that 32 Bostonians have simultaneously dropped dead in a ten-block radius for no apparent reason, and General Purcell wants to know if it was caused by a covert weapon. Of course, the military has been put in charge of the investigation and everything is hush-hush. Without examining anything, Keyes takes about five seconds to surmise that the victims all died from malfunctioning pacemakers and the malfunction was definitely not due to a secret weapon. We're supposed to be impressed, but our experience with real scientists and engineers indicates that when they're on-the-record, top-notch scientists and engineers won't even speculate about the color of their socks without looking at their ankles. They have top-notch reputations because they're almost always right. They're almost always right because they keep their mouths shut until they've fully analyzed the data. Naturally, General Purcell is totally satisfied with Keyes speculation and immediately dismisses him. Amazed at General Purcell's lack of curiosity, Keyes sets out to find answers. After a detailed analysis he concludes that the Earth's core has stopped spinning and is causing the Earth's magnetic field to collapse. Keyes is apparently the only one in the world to discover this fact. (Where are all the compasses? Are there no Boy Scouts?) When Keyes tries to share his results with world-renowned scientist Dr. Zimsky (Stanley Tucci), he's rebuffed as a mere autograph seeker. Keyes presses an overstuffed folder into Zimsky's hands and emphatically explains that it has information about the end of humanity. Zimsky appears to be in the wrong movie. He looks and acts like a stereotypical 1930s film star. Naturally, as a world renowned scientist, he is immediately impressed by having a total stranger run up to him on the street and ask him to endorse a wild-eyed theory. He not only accepts Keyes folder but ends up carefully studying its contents. Alas, Zimsky tells Keyes that his theory can't possibly be correct, and Keyes ends up sulking in a bar with his friend Serge. Not only is the future of humanity looking dim but also Keyes' chances for being the first to publish the prediction. Keyes' sulking is interrupted by federal agents who again whisk him off to a secret location this time for a meeting with a whole room full of top brass. To his surprise, Zimsky is there representing Keyes' theories as his own. However, Zimsky has fallen out of favor with General Purcell and the general invites Keyes, rather than Zimsky, to address the group. Not one to waste time, Keyes jumps straight to the bottom line: humanity is doomed and will end in a few months. The cause? Deadly microwave radiation will cook us since we'll no longer be shielded by the Earth's magnetic force field or what Keyes refers to as Earth's electro-magnetic energy field. Keyes proceeds to demonstrate the effects of losing the magnetic field by lighting the aerosol from a can of hair spray and flaming a peach representing Earth.
Ha Ha! At Last!
--- Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You see, I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my age. I'm only 21, and I'm only now beginning to immerse myself into the things I really enjoy. -Travis That mean's I'm no longer the youngest Brin-Ler. It's about time! :-) = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review
Vilyehm Teighlore wrote: Or in Scotland you wake up with a blue ribbon tied Debbi replied: I Dunno Wher Ya Bin, Milad, But I See Ya Won Firs' Prize! Maru;} Funny this song should come up now... There are a lot of different versions of that last line. I don't know where ya bin my boy, my friend, even changing the word order to Lad (or boy or friend) I don't know where ya bin And oddly enough, the song was not written by a Scot, but by an American folk singer named Mike Cross, born in Tennessee and raised in the Appalachian mountains who took up guitar playing after giving up a college golf scholarship to follow his girlfriend to the college of *her* choice. He picks up the story there: We broke up when I was a freshman. I'd given up my golf scholarship and even sold my clubs, so I had to find something to replace them. I think that's why I took up the guitar. I needed a new passion in life. http://www.mikecross.com/ By strange coincidence (yet another example of list synchronicity), I just recently purchased a used copy of Dr. Demento 20th Anniversary Collection: The Greatest Novelty Records Of All Time. The Bryan Bowers recording of The Scotsman is the second song on the first CD of the two-CD set. Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?
Ronn! wrote: A is homeomorphic to B means that there is a homeomorphism which maps A to B. A homeomorphism is a bicontinuous bijection. And that's supposed to help how? ;-) Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Physics Quiz
http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html 77.5 % Embarrassing xponent But At Least I Passed Without Study G Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Physics Quiz
From: Robert Seeberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html 85%. Not bad considering how long ago my last physics class was... Did horrible in Basic Kinematics which doesn't surprise me. Never did well on that in school! - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Physics Quiz
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html 77.5 % Embarrassing 90% for me. IMO some of the questions were poorly worded. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review
At 01:13 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote: Vilyehm Teighlore wrote: Or in Scotland you wake up with a blue ribbon tied Debbi replied: I Dunno Wher Ya Bin, Milad, But I See Ya Won Firs' Prize! Maru;} Funny this song should come up now... There are a lot of different versions of that last line. I don't know where ya bin my boy, my friend, even changing the word order to Lad (or boy or friend) I don't know where ya bin And oddly enough, the song was not written by a Scot, but by an American folk singer named Mike Cross, born in Tennessee and raised in the Appalachian mountains who took up guitar playing after giving up a college golf scholarship to follow his girlfriend to the college of *her* choice. He picks up the story there: We broke up when I was a freshman. I'd given up my golf scholarship and even sold my clubs, so I had to find something to replace them. I think that's why I took up the guitar. I needed a new passion in life. http://www.mikecross.com/ By strange coincidence (yet another example of list synchronicity), I just recently purchased a used copy of Dr. Demento 20th Anniversary Collection: The Greatest Novelty Records Of All Time. The Bryan Bowers recording of The Scotsman is the second song on the first CD of the two-CD set. Reggie Bautista The version I have has Lad I donna know where ya bin From that story I wonder if any his songs are about the power of P. Kevin T. - VRWC Insert joke about child of a goddess here ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Physics Quiz
At 01:21 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote: http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html 77.5 % Embarrassing xponent But At Least I Passed Without Study G Maru rob 80%. Two of the questions I missed because I did understood the answer differently, but I dispute some of the others. Not that the answers were wrong, but the way the question read. At least I got the electricity ones right. Kevin T. - VRWC My brother will get 100%, I hope ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/printable592330.shtm l From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go, he tells Stahl. For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do is a really huge leap, says O'Neill. O'Neill, fired by the White House for his disagreement on tax cuts, is the main source for an upcoming book, The Price of Loyalty, authored by Ron Suskind. Suskind says O'Neill and other White House insiders he interviewed gave him documents that show that in the first three months of 2001, the administration was looking at military options for removing Saddam Hussein from power and planning for the aftermath of Saddam's downfall, including post-war contingencies like peacekeeping troops, war crimes tribunals and the future of Iraq's oil. There are memos, Suskind tells Stahl, One of them marked 'secret' says 'Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq.' A Pentagon document, says Suskind, titled Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts, outlines areas of oil exploration. It talks about contractors around the world from...30, 40 countries and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq, Suskind says. In the book, O'Neill is quoted as saying he was surprised that no one in a National Security Council meeting questioned why Iraq should be invaded. It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this,' says O'Neill in the book. -- http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/imt/01/htm/t029.htm http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/imt/01/htm/t042.htm From the Nuremberg Indictments, Count 2, Crimes against peace: All the defendants with divers other persons, during a period of years preceding 8 May 1945, participated in the planning, preparation, initiation, and waging of wars of aggression, which were also wars in violation of international treaties, agreements, and assurances. I Pledge Impertinence to the Flag-Waving of the Unindicted Co-Conspirators of America and to the Republicans for which I can't stand one Abomination, Underhanded Fraud Indefensible with Liberty and Justice Forget it. -Life in Hell (Matt Groening) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 02:17 PM 1/6/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_01_04_atrios_archive.html#1073407288252422 65 Double Standards on Regional Bigotry Imagine if I ran an ad which went something like George Bush should take his negro lynching, anti-intellectual, pig feet eating, sister-screwing, wife beating... before the farmer's wife then finishes the sentence: ... KKK-loving, right-wing freak show back to Texas where it belongs. Mine's slightly more over the top than the actual Club for Growth ad, but it's no more incorrect. Slightly? This country has zero-tolerance for white-on-black race based insults. That's the real reason for the difference. Cultural steroetypes of West Virginia are just as permissible as of Vermont in American culture for better-or-for-worse, and it has nothing to do with your delusions of right-wing-media-bias. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
At 03:16 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/printable592330.shtm l From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go, he tells Stahl. For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do is a really huge leap, says O'Neill. O'Neill, fired by the White House for his disagreement on tax cuts, is the main source for an upcoming book, The Price of Loyalty, authored by Ron Suskind. Suskind says O'Neill and other White House insiders he interviewed gave him documents that show that in the first three months of 2001, the administration was looking at military options for removing Saddam Hussein from power and planning for the aftermath of Saddam's downfall, including post-war contingencies like peacekeeping troops, war crimes tribunals and the future of Iraq's oil. There are memos, Suskind tells Stahl, One of them marked 'secret' says 'Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq.' A Pentagon document, says Suskind, titled Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts, outlines areas of oil exploration. It talks about contractors around the world from...30, 40 countries and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq, Suskind says. And there are plans for invading N Korea, Cuba, Russia, China, Japan, Columbia, New Zealand, Spain, Canada..any country you want. It's what the military does. There already were Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oil, like France. Kevin T. - VRWC Don't let the facts hit your ass on the way out ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 02:17 PM 1/6/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: ttp://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_01_04_atrios_archive.html#10734072882524 2265 Double Standards on Regional Bigotry Imagine if I ran an ad which went something like George Bush should take his negro lynching, anti-intellectual, pig feet eating, sister-screwing, wife beating... before the farmer's wife then finishes the sentence: ... KKK-loving, right-wing freak show back to Texas where it belongs. Mine's slightly more over the top than the actual Club for Growth ad, but it's no more incorrect. Slightly? More than slightly. This country has zero-tolerance for white-on-black race based insults. Bullshit. The Republican party is _built_ on confederate loving, racist, bigoted, bible thumping fundamentalists in the south. Republicans couldn't win without the bigot vote. Republicans like Rush, and Buchanan, routinely pander to bigoted southerners. --- I Pledge Impertinence to the Flag-Waving of the Unindicted Co-Conspirators of America and to the Republicans for which I can't stand one Abomination, Underhanded Fraud Indefensible with Liberty and Justice Forget it. -Life in Hell (Matt Groening) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Divisional Playoff Pics
Well, I went 3-1 last week after Seattle just couldn't seal the deal in overtime. As great as the Wildcard Weekend usually is, the Divisional Round is usually a disappointment. Since the modern playoff system began in 1990, the home team has won by 9 or more points nearly 70% of that time. That kind of statistic will certainly affect my picks this weekend: Carolina at St. Louis - In the hey day of the Rams, John Fox's defensive unit New York Giants were one of the few groups in the League that seemde to consistently have an answer for the Rams' attack. Fox is now head-coaching the Panthers, and while my first reaction was that the Rams would blow the under-powered Panthers out of the Dome, I see the Panthers' defense keeping it close, the underrated Steve Smith giving the Panthers a chance to score but nevertheless falling short of the Rams who have just too many weapons. Pick: RAMS Tennessee at New England - The NFL loved the highlight films of Oakland and New England playing in the snow at night two weeks ago, so they scheduled the Patriots for another night home game this year. On paper, the Titans are the best wildcard team and New England has rarely dominated teams this year but I just think that they do not match up particularly well against the Patriots. I think that with Eddie George injured the Titans will not be able to run the ball, Steve McNair will be forced into turnovers, and on the other side of the ball I think that the Patriots will be able to spread out the Titans defense and pass the ball effectively. Only the cold should keep this game from getting out of hand. Pick: PATRIOTS... big. Indianapolis at Kansas City - For me, this is the most intriguing game of the week. Edgerring James is getting healthier which should allow the Colts to run the ball effectively on the Chiefs. Peyton Manning has already proved that he can pass the ball effectively on the road - just witness the comeback at Tampa Bay. On the other hand, the Chiefs have gone from potentially going undefeated to being totally disrespected by the NFL.Well, the Chiefs defense despite problems, is still solid and their offense is still top-shelf. Moreover, the Chiefs' special teams is still among the league's best, even with Dante Hall cooling off. So, I'm going to go with my gut on this one as the Colts just seem to have an aura about them right now with Vanderjagt setting the field goal records, Edgerring James finally recovering from that injury, and Peyton Manning exorcising the morons who thought he couldn't win a playoff game. Pick: COLTS UPSET SPECIAL Green Bay at Philadelphia - Speaking of an aura, how about the one around Green Bay since the death of Brett Favre's father?Unfortunately, they are running into an Eagles team that is hitting on all cylinders. Although Philadelphia has some injuries, they are extremely well-coached with two-time Coach of the Year winner Andy Reid, and they are like the Patriots in terms of having waves of personnel to plug into positions. Meanwhile, the Packers may be the weakest team left in the playofffs, having really struggled against Seattle last week at home, and luckily winning in overtime. The Eagles should have no problem in this one. Pick: EAGLES JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 03:02 PM 1/10/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: This country has zero-tolerance for white-on-black race based insults. Bullshit. The Republican party is _built_ on confederate loving, racist, bigoted, bible thumping fundamentalists in the south. Republicans couldn't win without the bigot vote. Republicans like Rush, and Buchanan, routinely pander to bigoted southerners. There's no need to swear. I am just pointing out that the media would not tolerate an over-the-top Democrtatic ad like the one described, due to our non-tolerance of that sort of thing, whreas poking fun at Vermonters or West Virginians is entirely tolerated. Personally, if you want to talk about pandering, I'll talk abotu a party that collects 90% of the vote of people of a certain race. That's only *possible* via pandering. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?
David Hobby wrote: No, I won't define sphere. And I suppose you won't define noncompressible and cow, either. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Right-wing press bias goes mainstream
At 12:41 PM 1/6/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 08:33 PM 1/5/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: No _YOU_ Are Wrong. The article I pointed to Was Listed _Explitly_ AS NEWS, not as an editorial by The AP. I accessed your linke to the SFGate website, and found nothing that explicitly listed the story as news. Because that is a link to the news story and Not the link to the AP News Feed, which this story came out of? How do you explain, however, my links to the below stories?Do you seriously think that the AP had two reporters filing the *news* stories on the same debate? Isn't it far more likely, that the reporter below was tasked with the news story and the other reporter was assigned to analysis? Yes, the AP has on many occasions had multiple differenent news stories reporting the same thing. Rarely like this. The often update and expand previous articles, but they don't send two reporters to a Democratic debate in Iowa to write parallel stories. Sorry just doesn't happen. And indeed, if you can't recognize that piece as being very clearly written as an opinion/analysis piece, and not as a news piece - then I really can't help you.I would figure that someone reads as much news as you do would be more experienced in that sort of thing. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 03:02 PM 1/10/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: This country has zero-tolerance for white-on-black race based insults. Bullshit. The Republican party is _built_ on confederate loving, racist, bigoted, bible thumping fundamentalists in the south. Republicans couldn't win without the bigot vote. Republicans like Rush, and Buchanan, routinely pander to bigoted southerners. There's no need to swear. That's not swearing. I am just pointing out that the media would not tolerate an over-the-top Democrtatic ad like the one described, due to our non-tolerance of that sort of thing, whreas poking fun at Vermonters or West Virginians is entirely tolerated. Personally, if you want to talk about pandering, I'll talk abotu a party that collects 90% of the vote of people of a certain race. That's only *possible* via pandering. They vote that way not because they are being pandered to, but because the other party panders to the the racists. The Republican party requires 80+% of white voters in some states to win elections. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message -
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 03:02 PM 1/10/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote:
This country has zero-tolerance for white-on-black race based
insults.
Bullshit. The Republican party is _built_ on confederate loving,
racist,
bigoted, bible thumping fundamentalists in the south.
Republicans
couldn't win without the bigot vote. Republicans like Rush, and
Buchanan, routinely pander to bigoted southerners.
There's no need to swear.
That's not swearing.
I am just pointing out that the media would not tolerate an
over-the-top
Democrtatic ad like the one described, due to our non-tolerance of
that
sort of thing, whreas poking fun at Vermonters or West Virginians
is
entirely tolerated.
Personally, if you want to talk about pandering, I'll talk abotu a
party
that collects 90% of the vote of people of a certain race.
That's
only
*possible* via pandering.
They vote that way not because they are being pandered to, but
because
the other party panders to the the racists. The Republican party
requires 80+% of white voters in some states to win elections.
As promised, my ex-wife replies:
The Texas Miracle or The National Nightmare.?
References: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0102-07.htm
http://www.skirsch.com/politics/rodpaige/rod_paige_page.htm
{TAAS tests, Texas, HISD, Paige, governor bush, Rand report)
http://thousandreasons.org/(under education) What Bush has truly
done for education with relevant links
www.senate.gov (nominations) for dept. of education
News stories:
www.khou.com/news/defenders/investigate
www.houstonchronicle.com
www.nytimes.com
Keywords: Sharpstown, HISD, PAIGE, drop outs, Kimball, Cuadra,
TEA, Stripling.
For those of us in Houston Texas, who watched 60 minutes, it was
more than a news story, but a minor victory in the war for this
generation of children.
We are seated here in Houston Texas, birthplace of the LEAVE NO
CHILD BEHIND PROGRAM.
The Houston Independent School District , under the lead of Rod
Paige, Head of the Dept. of Education are responsible, for this
program built on lies and deceptions, in which children are
deliberately sabotaged for the sake of money.
Even when President Bush was Governor of Texas, he did not heed
counsel concerning state mandated tests, but willingly plunged our
nation's education system into a nightmare
As a parent of a teenager, who entered my alma mater of Sharpstown
High School four years ago, I thought my greatest worries would be
in protecting her from everyday teen temptations. Instead, our
campus has been the site of a destructive and National battle for
our educational system.
With the help of Dr. Robert Kimball and our local news, the
padding of records( that is reporting of zero drop outs) and the
purposeful hold back of students who would score low on the TAAS
tests was exposed. This has happened district wide and is
happening nationwide. The main and only emphasis, is in performing
well on standardized state tests in order to receive federal
money. It is the system that is corrupt. Instead of financing and
focussing on basic education, recruiting and paying excellent
teachers and promoting students based on their courses and
abilities, administrators and principals receive bonuses for
skewed statistics on National Tests.
Justice was not done, HISD laid the blame on two innocent
employees.
This year's graduation class will be 150 out of 1400 that began.
Our campus is a cemetery/ prison. The more people talked, the
greater the censorship. Civil rights of students, teachers and
parents occurred without a wink of the eye. I don't think the
political careers of few people and their cronies who lap at the
financial trough of education are worth the future of this whole
generation.
They would rather put millions into spinmasters and propaganda
than fix the problems. Bush has no intentions of relenting. His
nominees for the Dept of Education clearly show his heart is not
with the children. ( www.senate.gov ) Nominations.
This is not a Republican or Democratic issue. It is a national
moral dilemma.
The tax payers are overtaxed, teachers are forced out the door,
and our economy will pay the price of under-educated, forced out
the door youth.
I would urge everyone to educate themselves on this issue. Use
critical thinking in the year to come. If we turn our backs on
this generation, we will all pay a high price. Do not believe the
strawmen of political attacks or racism. It is all children,
white black Hispanic that are being sabotaged. Do not believe the
high priced statisticians who are paid to skew figures.
Accountability starts at the top, with Bush and Paige.
Accountability to school districts who bend the law.
DO your research and write your senators. Find out what is really
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
On 10 Jan 2004, at 9:25 pm, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 03:02 PM 1/10/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: This country has zero-tolerance for white-on-black race based insults. Bullshit. The Republican party is _built_ on confederate loving, racist, bigoted, bible thumping fundamentalists in the south. Republicans couldn't win without the bigot vote. Republicans like Rush, and Buchanan, routinely pander to bigoted southerners. There's no need to swear. Nice to see you engaging in the list again. Without different voices this list would be as shallow as that 'other' list ;) Swearing? Where? I don't see any need for people to use coarse language on the list, but I didn't see it here. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 1984. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
As promised, my ex-wife replies: The Texas Miracle or The National Nightmare.? snip rob I don't know how much was hers, if it all was. I'm not arguing against anything written. I just want to point out that this has been going on for years under all leadership, as the point seemed to be. I consider the problem to come from 1960s (earlier?) when the DoE was created. The Federal gov should not receive or pay out one penny, it should all be handled on the state level. If the DoE remains, it can monitor individual states, and offer suggestions but not mandates. The problem is money, not too little but too much. Too much for administrators to sit around doing nothing else but trying to figure how to get more. Too much for teachers and their unions to drool over. Too much to build gilded palaces and sports emporiums. As the writer said, the tax payers are the ones feeling the brunt. I'm not saying I think I should pay nothing, but there aren't too many areas with so little oversight. Unpaid, nonprofessional busybodies controlling tens of millions of dollars. (And before anyone says I should do something, because of my job I cannot hold an elected position.) Kevin T. - VRWC Enough for now ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ha Ha! At Last!
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You see, I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my age. I'm only 21, and I'm only now beginning to immerse myself into the things I really enjoy. -Travis That mean's I'm no longer the youngest Brin-Ler. It's about time! :-) -- So who's oldest? George A P.S. I'm 53 and would just as soon NOT win the prize. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ha Ha! At Last!
At 11:35 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You see, I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my age. I'm only 21, and I'm only now beginning to immerse myself into the things I really enjoy. -Travis That mean's I'm no longer the youngest Brin-Ler. It's about time! :-) -- So who's oldest? George A P.S. I'm 53 and would just as soon NOT win the prize. Maybe the website could put up an anonymous poll? It could list the youngest/oldest ages and the average. And I'm wondering, isn't Andrew C younger than Gautam? If he's still posting. Kevin T. - VRWC Sneaking up on 37 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Book questions
Has anyone read Kim Stanley Robinson's Orange County trilogy? Are they worth reading? George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 04:08 PM 1/10/2004 -0600 The Fool wrote: Bullshit. I wrote: There's no need to swear. The Fool wrote: That's not swearing. Uh, does *anyone* here agree with The Fool? JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Physics Quiz
- Original Message - From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:21 AM Subject: Physics Quiz http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html 77.5 % Embarrassing xponent But At Least I Passed Without Study G Maru rob Same score, but not embarrassed. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ha Ha! At Last!
In a message dated 1/10/2004 9:36:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So who's oldest? George A P.S. I'm 53 and would just as soon NOT win the prize. 50 + one day And I do not brpth act the oldest. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Physics Quiz
In a message dated 1/10/2004 10:43:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 77.5 % Embarrassing xponent But At Least I Passed Without Study G Maru rob Same score, but not embarrassed. George A 75% and I have no idea why it was so high. Nothing but rulers and marbles in high school physics class. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ha Ha! At Last!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2004 9:36:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So who's oldest? George A P.S. I'm 53 and would just as soon NOT win the prize. 50 + one day And I do not brpth act the oldest. William Taylor -- A Belated Happy Birthday. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
