Re: March for Women's Lives
Robert Seeberger wrote: Question: Is there anyone here who did not understand my use of the word trollery? Actually, I thought you were talking about the arcane art of shopping trolley manoeuvring. Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: More on the environmental movement
On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 11:22:49PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: At this point, only one of them can move faster than I can walk quickly. :) What if one goes in one direction and another in the opposite direction? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Darwin's Radio
I read this Killer B book on the train this week, and I was wondering what you all thought of it. I thought it was also fairly predictable. Bear telegraphs most of the plot; I pretty much knew what was going to happen by page 75. If it wasn't almost against my religion to quit reading a book in the middle, I'd have stopped reading right there. Maybe I've read too many X-Men comics in my life, but there were just no surprises to speak of, which was disappointing. I suppose I'm glad I finished it, since the journey to the end was entertaining enough; the characters were nicely drawn, and Bear is hard SF so I feel like I learned a little too. But overall, I felt like this one was overrated, based on the reviews I read when it came out. I know we have some Bear fans here, so I'll just don my asbestos suit now and cower in my bunker. :-) Jim Retrovirus Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: More on the environmental movement
Erik Reuter wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: At this point, only one of them can move faster than I can walk quickly. :) What if one goes in one direction and another in the opposite direction? That? Oh, that just means she's an incompetent mother. Haven't you been paying attention? ;-) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Disturbing evidence of torture
At 10:33 AM 07/05/04 -0500, you wrote: At 09:40 AM 5/7/04, Andrew Paul wrote: You dont start wars. Its always a stupid thing to do. That depends on the viewpoint. When the psychological trait that motivates people to get into wars evolved a million years ago the choice was sometimes very bleak. Like: The game has been hunted out, the berry crop failed and there is no direction your tribe can move. War has these outcomes, you win over the next door tribe, kill the men and take the women and resources or you loose and all the men in your tribe get wiped out but the men's female offspring (who have copies of the men's genes) are taken as booty and become mothers of the next generation of the winners. From a *genes* point of view, war, no matter what the outcome, beats starving. How about joining in when one is already in progress, whether it has been declared or not? If your tribe gets attacked, it pay your genes to attack back, even to take high risks of being killed while defending your tribe because the alternative--being killed--is worse for your genes.. Evolutionary psychology is really a bleak science. Keith Henson PS. We need to map what turns on psychological traits today that were evolved in the stone age. Billions of lives depend on this understanding. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
- Original Message - From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. I don't think that is true anymore. You can see solar cells in applications out on the street these days. A good example is the School Zone flashers (Hush Ronn! G) where using a solar panel to charge a battery is almost universal around here. xponent Spreading Like A Cancer Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: When dumb is deadly, was Disturbing evidence of torture
An interesting take, regardless of what one may think of the source: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/kp20040508.shtml When dumb is deadly Kathleen Parker (back to web version) | [] Send May 8, 2004 When President Bush told the world that abuses at Abu Ghraib prison do not reflect American values, he was right. The best American values, in spirit if not always in practice, respect human life, dignity and the rule of law. But some of what happened at Abu Ghraib, specifically the sexualized humiliations, may reflect American culture, especially in the instance of the naked human pyramid, which is nearly iconographic within the adolescent zeitgeist that spawned our current generation of soldiers. The images from Abu Ghraib, now irreversibly tattooed on the Arab brain, were every frat-house cliche magnified. The human pyramid, males mooning, masturbation, bags over heads. What we saw, at least in part, was The Farrelly Brothers Do Baghdad. How else to explain the giddy photographs of young soldiers mugging for cameras and giving the thumbs-up sign beside humiliated prisoners, naked and masturbating? Another Farrelly movie, Dumb and Dumber, comes to mind I don't want to overstate my case by insisting that the culture made 'em do it, but we'd be missing a few dots if we didn't admit that the culture that birthed our young soldiers has dumbed down the definition of human dignity. The Farrelly Brothers - kings of the gross-out comedy film genre characterized by scatological humor and raunchy sex jokes - are convenient touchstones in the larger discussion about the debasing of American culture. In their side-splitter for the developmentally arrested, There's Something About Mary, the male star gets his genitals stuck in a zipper. Later when he pleasures himself, he misplaces his issue, which subsequently becomes hair gel for Mary. Don't ask. Such is what has passed for culture for many of the kids now populating our military. My point: There's not much difference between what those soldiers enacted in Abu Ghraib for digital cameras and 15 seconds of instafame back home and what America's increasingly debased culture embraces as good harmless fun. Quickly, I want to draw a clear distinction between the photographs of naked prisoners and other reports of physical torture. There's no excuse for either - no justification, no exit from a full hearing and appropriate punishment - but there is a difference. In a 53-page report about Abu Ghraib completed in February, Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba noted that some abuse of detainees went beyond anything we might construe as mere hazing and probably meets most definitions of torture. One excerpt, for example, reads: Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape ... sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick ... No, it's not Saddam's plastic shredder, but these examples clearly violate the Geneva Conventions, that tenuous thread to civilization to which we cling during wartime. Heads should roll, publicly and swiftly. Meanwhile, the other psychological tortures - the dehumanizing images of naked men forced to perform as sex slaves - have provoked the most outrage in the Arab world where men being naked in front of other men is deeply humiliating. Being forced into the posture of a woman is as bad as it gets. Perhaps most shocking of all the photographs were those showing young female soldiers ridiculing their male captives - behind a stack of bare male bottoms, or pointing at the genitals of a masturbating prisoner. In one account, a young woman gleefully reports that one of the prisoners under her watch has become tumescent. And then, might we presume, giggle, giggle? How did such depravity come to pass? How could our bright and brave young people come to behave so stupidly? While some claim they were merely following orders, surely those orders didn't include posing for pictures. At the same time they're displaying for their pictorial diaries, the soldiers seem bereft of historical conscience, unburdened by any awareness of larger - and lethal - contexts into which their frat-house scrapbooks might be placed. To them, it seems, Abu Ghraib was just another photo op, an after-hours party sans grown-ups to inhibit their jaunty trip through a Heronymous Bosch garden of perverse delights. Farrelly, farrelly, farrelly, farrelly life is but a dream. We can't blame America's culture entirely, but as we're trying to change the hearts and minds of others, we might take a closer look at our own. You can't steep a teabag in sewerage and expect it to taste like Earl Gray. ©2004 Tribune Media Services Contact Kathleen Parker | Read Parker's biography townhall.com QUICK LINKS: HOME | NEWS | OPINION | MEETUP | C-LOG |
Red rain result of meteor explosion?
Not sure how I ran across this, but it seems to be an interesting theory. It was hosted on a Cornell server. The links below are for the PDF of this document. If you are interested in reading the entire document, but can't open a PDF, email me and I will email you this article as a Word Document. I have no idea of the scientific accuracy, but the only implausible part (the me at least) is why didn't the debris disperse in the atmosphere over the two month period? Gary Cometary panspermia explains the red rain of Kerala Godfrey Louis A. Santhosh Kumar School of Pure and Applied Physics, Mahatma Gandhi University, Kottayam - 686560, Kerala, India. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: October 5, 2003 Red coloured rain occurred in many places of Kerala in India during July to September 2001 due to the mixing of huge quantity of microscopic red cells in the rainwater. Considering its correlation with a meteor airbust event, this phenomenon raised an extraordinary question whether the cells are extraterrestrial. Here we show how the observed features of the red rain phenomenon can be explained by considering the fragmentation and atmospheric disintegration of a fragile cometary body that presumably contains a dense collection of red cells. Slow settling of cells in the stratosphere explains the continuation of the phenomenon for two months. The red cells under study appear to be the resting spores of an extremophilic microorganism. Possible presence of these cells in the interstellar clouds is speculated from its similarity in UV http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0310/0310120.pdf or http://tinyurl.com/2sxuh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
At 09:42 AM 5/8/04, Robert Seeberger wrote: --===0575637009== - Original Message - From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. I don't think that is true anymore. You can see solar cells in applications out on the street these days. A good example is the School Zone flashers (Hush Ronn! G) where using a solar panel to charge a battery is almost universal around here. xponent Spreading Like A Cancer Solar cell applications or bad puns? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
On Sat, May 08, 2004 at 12:58:37PM +, Alberto Monteiro wrote: One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. Think about it, Alberto. IF they can make these solar cells for about the same cost as present solar cells, then by tripling the efficiency they drastically improve the economic viability (it creates 3 times the energy!). Time will tell whether the IF is possible. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:00 AM Subject: Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy At 09:42 AM 5/8/04, Robert Seeberger wrote: --===0575637009== - Original Message - From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. I don't think that is true anymore. You can see solar cells in applications out on the street these days. A good example is the School Zone flashers (Hush Ronn! G) where using a solar panel to charge a battery is almost universal around here. xponent Spreading Like A Cancer Solar cell applications or bad puns? The spread of solar cell applications is a relatively recent phenomena, but bad puns have always had universal application my esteemed punacious humorist! G xponent The Crue Of More Hu Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: More on the environmental movement
Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 11:22:49PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: At this point, only one of them can move faster than I can walk quickly. :) What if one goes in one direction and another in the opposite direction? I can scoop up one baby and then go after the other. And quite often, if I get down on the floor, they both head towards me. This won't last, of course Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red rain result of meteor explosion?
Fred Hoyle is dead, but it seems Chandra Wickramisinghe has some followers . . At 10:10 AM 5/8/04, Gary Nunn wrote: Not sure how I ran across this, but it seems to be an interesting theory. It was hosted on a Cornell server. The links below are for the PDF of this document. If you are interested in reading the entire document, but can't open a PDF, email me and I will email you this article as a Word Document. I have no idea of the scientific accuracy, but the only implausible part (the me at least) is why didn't the debris disperse in the atmosphere over the two month period? Gary Cometary panspermia explains the red rain of Kerala Godfrey Louis A. Santhosh Kumar School of Pure and Applied Physics, Mahatma Gandhi University, Kottayam - 686560, Kerala, India. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: October 5, 2003 Red coloured rain occurred in many places of Kerala in India during July to September 2001 due to the mixing of huge quantity of microscopic red cells in the rainwater. Considering its correlation with a meteor airbust event, this phenomenon raised an extraordinary question whether the cells are extraterrestrial. Here we show how the observed features of the red rain phenomenon can be explained by considering the fragmentation and atmospheric disintegration of a fragile cometary body that presumably contains a dense collection of red cells. Slow settling of cells in the stratosphere explains the continuation of the phenomenon for two months. The red cells under study appear to be the resting spores of an extremophilic microorganism. Possible presence of these cells in the interstellar clouds is speculated from its similarity in UV http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0310/0310120.pdf or http://tinyurl.com/2sxuh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red rain result of meteor explosion?
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Red rain result of meteor explosion? Fred Hoyle is dead, but it seems Chandra Wickramisinghe has some followers . . Sure, panspermia has many adherents and seems to be gaining credence currently. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astrobiology_nrc_040507.html We know that life had to begin somehow and somewhere. The bias that life could only arise on a planetary surface could possible be a conceit. Theories abound. (Or should I say hypothesis?) But there are actually very few facts concerning the origins of life. xponent To The Best Of Our Knowledge Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Red rain result of meteor explosion?
Not sure how I ran across this, but it seems to be an interesting theory. It was hosted on a Cornell server. The links below are for the PDF of this document. If you are interested in reading the entire document, but can't open a PDF, email me and I will email you this article as a Word Document. I have no idea of the scientific accuracy, but the only implausible part (the me at least) is why didn't the debris disperse in the atmosphere over the two month period? Gary Cometary panspermia explains the red rain of Kerala Godfrey Louis A. Santhosh Kumar School of Pure and Applied Physics, Mahatma Gandhi University, Kottayam - 686560, Kerala, India. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: October 5, 2003 Red coloured rain occurred in many places of Kerala in India during July to September 2001 due to the mixing of huge quantity of microscopic red cells in the rainwater. Considering its correlation with a meteor airbust event, this phenomenon raised an extraordinary question whether the cells are extraterrestrial. Here we show how the observed features of the red rain phenomenon can be explained by considering the fragmentation and atmospheric disintegration of a fragile cometary body that presumably contains a dense collection of red cells. Slow settling of cells in the stratosphereexplains the continuation of the phenomenon for two months. The red cells under study appear to be the resting spores of an extremophilic microorganism. Possiblepresence of these cells in the interstellar clouds is speculated from its similarity in UV http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0310/0310120.pdf or http://tinyurl.com/2sxuh Well seems like chtoran infestiation if you ask me Nick Better call in Jim McCarthy and Lizard, almost forgot Foreman Lidster ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Free Energy by Joe Newman
Seen a part of a show on Discovery about this guy, and his idea of a machine that can produce 3 times as much power as what is put into it... I say BS, and many others do as well. I was wondering if any of you have come across this topic before. Here is a link to some info and personal opinions on this guy. http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic/newman.htm Nick I want free energy too Lidster ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Red rain result of meteor explosion?
Another scientist going outside his field. Red dust was wind picking up sand and dust from the Middle East. The odd structures that he thought was alien life was really that he didn't know biology and chemistry. http://www.sciscoop.com/story/2004/5/1/92822/77787 http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/regional/kerala/20030619-0.html On Sat, 8 May 2004 15:21:08 -0230, Nick Lidster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure how I ran across this, but it seems to be an interesting theory. It was hosted on a Cornell server. The links below are for the PDF of this document. If you are interested in reading the entire document, but can't open a PDF, email me and I will email you this article as a Word Document. I have no idea of the scientific accuracy, but the only implausible part (the me at least) is why didn't the debris disperse in the atmosphere over the two month period? Gary Cometary panspermia explains the red rain of Kerala ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
On Fri, 7 May 2004 20:30:00 -0700, Messiah Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't quite get what your point is here. Somewhere in there, I supposed you think that the GOP is worse than Stalin, but other than that, I'm baffled. Baffled Mike Lee throws in that somehow people who oppose him support Stalin. And the Supreme Court has ruled against them when? And they have ignored the Court after that ruling when? And the administration implemented the Patriot Act despite Congress not passing it? Actually they did, many provisions of the Patriot Act 2 were inserted into other bills. The so-called Patriot Act II, as the press dubbed it, was written by the Justice Department. The Center for Public Integrity discovered it last year and exposed the document, initiating a public outcry that forced the government to back down on its plans. But critics say the government didn't abandon its goals after the uproar; it simply extracted the most controversial provisions from Patriot Act II and slipped them surreptitiously into other bills, such as the Intelligence Authorization Act, to avoid raising alarm. Wired News: Bush Grabs New Power for FBI http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61792,00.html And it is illegal to tell the world that you're suing to challenge the Patriot Act. washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51423-2004Apr28.html By the way, Bush just used the word apologize but it still won't make you happy. What he did was gutsy and difficult and you don't care. I was referring to the interviews for Arab TV, not the next day statement. Bush calls treatment of Iraqi prisoners 'abhorrent,' but doesn't apologize http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/Iraq/2004/05/05/448149-ap.html You have low standards for gutsy and difficult. You like to move the goalposts a lot. I agree he is a right wing moron. I cannot see Kerry doing anything as bad as this gang has managed to do and Kerry was way down on my list of candidates. Well, that's what happens when you let Mr. Mole vote. Kerry has said he'll kiss Eurabian/UN ass in the war on terror. He'll out-Chamberlain Spain. Also, let's not forget, it wasn't just 30 years ago today that Sgt. Kerry threw his medals away. Since then, he's been about the most consistently leftist member of Congress. Even if he had reformed, I wouldn't care. Really, there's something wrong with you if you buy into this shit even when you're 20. Kerry has the best of both worlds, a war hero who came back and opposed the Vietnam War. Get out of your video game world and face real life. You might want to keep in mind that the Geneva Conventions prohibit things like keeping POWs in cells or isolated from each other. Those are the kinds of provisions we need to violate. When the cops interrogate criminals they don't put them all in the same holding cell so they can get their stories straight. Mike, still defending violating Geneva conventions. What our MPs did to those prisoners in Iraq sucked. Whether it technically violated the conventions, I don't know or care. I'm proud of how the Bushies have sucked it up and taken their lumps. No, they haven't been perfect. Bush didn't say the A-word timely. Rumsfeld was a little defensive the first time he was confronted about it. But what the Chappaquiddick Kid did today was beyond shameful, and Rumsfeld was spot on, only losing his temper at stupidity a couple of times today. If you think the dog and pony show that went on today is going to play well with the voters, please keep thinking that. As a great man once said, Bring it on! Quoting Kerry now? Bring it on. You seem to be desperately trying to tie in the last 80 years of leftist scandals, first Stalin, then Chappaquiddick. Amnesty International and others in the coalition, however, have argued that those held in Guantanamo are presumed to be prisoners of war, and if there is any doubt about their status, it is not the prerogative of the US secretary of defense to unilaterally make the determination. Fuck Amnesty International. I used to give them money. What a maroon. Amnesty International can take the issue to court or go to hell. They choose soft targets and ignore the really bad stuff. Poseurs. According to Article 5 of the Third Geneva Convention, said Amnesty, the US must convene a competent tribunal that is competent and impartial to decide on their status. Read more, believe AI propaganda less. This is also the position exposed by the International Committee of the Red Cross, considered a key interpreter of the Geneva Conventions. First, that would be espoused, not exposed and second, too bad for the Red Cross. They shouldn't play politics like this or they could go the way of French wine in America. Really, I'm about done with taking crap off my moral inferiors, especially when they are wallowing in their pretensions to moral superiority. Which has a lot to
The Lost Hearts and Minds
Baghdad Burning is a blog from an interesting intelligent woman living in Baghdad. She hated Saddam and supported the US coming in and kicking him out. Lately she has been changing her mind. I've edited some of her thoughts today: I don't understand the 'shock' Americans claim to feel at the lurid pictures. You've seen the troops break down doors and terrify women and children. curse, scream, push, pull and throw people to the ground with a boot over their head. You've seen troops shoot civilians in cold blood. You've seen them bomb cities and towns. You've seen them burn cars and humans using tanks and helicopters. Is this latest debacle so very shocking or appalling? The number of killings in the south has also risen. The Americans and British are saying that they are 'insurgents' and people who are a part of Al-Sadir's militia, but people from Najaf are claiming that innocent civilians are being killed on a daily basis. Today the troops entered Najaf and there was fighting in the streets. This is going to cause a commotion because Najaf is considered a holy city and is especially valuable to Shi'a all over the world. The current situation in the south makes one wonder who, now, is going to implement a no-fly zone over areas like Falloojeh and Najaf to 'protect' the people this time around? I sometimes get emails asking me to propose solutions or make suggestions. Fine. Today's lesson: don't rape, don't torture, don't kill and get out while you can- while it still looks like you have a choice... Chaos? Civil war? Bloodshed? We'll take our chances- just take your Puppets, your tanks, your smart weapons, your dumb politicians, your lies, your empty promises, your rapists, your sadistic torturers and go. There was a time when people here felt sorry for the troops. No matter what one's attitude was towards the occupation, there were moments of pity towards the troops, regardless of their nationality. We would see them suffering the Iraqi sun, obviously wishing they were somewhere else and somehow, that vulnerability made them seem less monstrous and more human. That time has passed. People look at troops now and see the pictures of Abu Ghraib and we burn with shame and anger and frustration at not being able to do something. Now that the world knows that the torture has been going on since the very beginning, do people finally understand what happened in Falloojeh? And through all this, Bush gives his repulsive speeches. He makes an appearance on Arabic tv channels looking sheepish and attempting to look sincere, babbling on about how this 'incident' wasn't representative of the American people or even the army, regardless of the fact that it's been going on for so long. He asks Iraqis to not let these pictures reflect on their attitude towards the American people and yet when the bodies were dragged through the streets of Falloojeh, the American troops took it upon themselves to punish the whole city. Just Go. http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Screensavers, Call For Help - RIP
Damn, I don't have cable now but they had a great cast and a hip, not hype, attitude. http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com On Fri, 7 May 2004 18:01:43 -0500, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Screensavers, Call For Help - RIP Robert Seeberger wrote: http://leo.typepad.com/tlr/2004/05/comcast_fires_t.html The entire staff of Tech TV has been fired by Comcast. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Barbie Experiment
On Fri, 7 May 2004 17:44:13 -0500, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.cindyjackson.com/my_surgery.php Did not use Michael Jackson's advice. xponent Early Transhuman Studies Maru rob I was just commenting elsewhere how much I hate plastic surgery and you bring this up. Not that I totally like her barbie doll look exactly but it has been a transformation. Kids, don't try this at home unless you are a MENSA with a plan, have a lot of money, have a lot of time for trial and error, and follow 'some basic anthropological laws of human attraction' and centuries-old rules of facial and body proportion. I guess I can fall back on I have seen more attractive women although not many of her age and she isn't really my type. I more agree with Isabelli Rosellini: Can beauty be bought? It depends on what you mean by beauty. Inner beauty, as it is called, of course cannot be bought and neither can style. But symmetrical physical good looks are achieved every day through plastic surgery. My opinion swings from the thought that plastic surgery is a new technology so why not try it, to the thought that it's similar to Chinese foot binding. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
- Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Disturbing evidence of torture I missed what happened today. What did Kennedy do? Julia I forgot to mention one interchange. Kennedy said that Rumsfeld et. al. knew of the abuses from Red Cross reports and did nothing. Rumsfeld took exception to this. Technically, Rumsfeld was correct. In reality, there was a small, and tremendously inadaquate response, not no response. Given the reports by the Red Cross, Rumsfeld should have know that something was seriously wrong at the prisons and a tremendous effort to take immediate corrective action should have taken place. Bells and whistles should have gone off. They didn't. Trying to piece things together, it appears that the assumption that Americans are so naturally good that abuse is impossible underlied the planning. Anyone who accepted the facts that Gautam so clearly showed would never have put understaffed undertrained, virtually unsupervised guards on an overcrouded prison, asked them to prepare prisoners for questioning, and expected the prisoners to be properly treated. It boggles the mind. The intertwined sins of management by wishfull thinking and denial of reality seems to have been at the heart of this. It seems more and more obvious that, while the war itself was managed very well, the peace aftwards was significantly bungled. It isn't surprising: people do what they believe in much better than what they don't believe in. From the start, Bush didn't believe in nation building. We went into Iraq assuming we'd win (which we did very well), we'd walk in as liberators (which sorta happened...opinions were split), and the exile leaders who've been whispering in our years would quickly form a temporary government that would lead to quick elections, and a democracy that would be a great US ally. Just like my old company, those who had experience and understanding of the real challanges were dismissed as naysayers. State was virtually shut out, the general who had a more realistic assessment of the requirements of post-victory Iraq was pushed out of the loop after stating realistic requirements. The financial cost of the post-war period was also denied...remember when it was all to be paid out of the increased oil revenue? Even now, State is being shut out of the loop. One day Powell tells the Black Caucus there will be no request for additional funds for Iraq, the next day there is a request for 25 billion. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: When dumb is deadly, was Disturbing evidence of torture
On 8 May 2004, at 3:56 pm, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: An interesting take, regardless of what one may think of the source: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/kp20040508.shtml When dumb is deadly Kathleen Parker (back to web version) | [] Send May 8, 2004 When President Bush told the world that abuses at Abu Ghraib prison do not reflect American values, he was right. The best American values, in spirit if not always in practice, respect human life, dignity and the rule of law. But some of what happened at Abu Ghraib, specifically the sexualized humiliations, may reflect American culture, especially in the instance of the naked human pyramid, which is nearly iconographic within the adolescent zeitgeist that spawned our current generation of soldiers. The images from Abu Ghraib, now irreversibly tattooed on the Arab brain, were every frat-house cliche magnified. The human pyramid, males mooning, masturbation, bags over heads. What we saw, at least in part, was The Farrelly Brothers Do Baghdad. How else to explain the giddy photographs of young soldiers mugging for cameras and giving the thumbs-up sign beside humiliated prisoners, naked and masturbating? Another Farrelly movie, Dumb and Dumber, comes to mind This argument (such as it is) is completely derailed by the fact that the Farrelly Brothers' films are basically good-hearted, compassionate and moral. Which anyone who had actually seen them would know. I can only presume Ms Parker hasn't seen them, or is an an astonishingly poor film critic... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Disturbing evidence of torture
Gary Denton, dumb to the last drop: And the Supreme Court has ruled against them when? And they have ignored the Court after that ruling when? And the administration implemented the Patriot Act despite Congress not passing it? Actually they did, many provisions of the Patriot Act 2 were inserted into other bills. Passed by Congress, presumably. My point stands. And it is illegal to tell the world that you're suing to challenge the Patriot Act. washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51423-2004Apr28.html I know you like to believe everything the Washington Post says, but we'll see how this all settles out. Not that I'm all in favor of the Patriot Act, since that mow-ron Ashcroft has begun using it to go after pornographers and such. I really hate that guy. Talk about undermining the war on terror. Abusing the extraordinary powers granted by the Patriot Act to serve his own sexually hysterical agenda really makes us less safe. We need the government to have those powers to have a hope of keeping up with terrorists. We can't afford government using those powers for other purposes. Ashcroft has proven all the critics and libertarians right. Keep Rumsfeld, ditch Asscroft. Really, there's something wrong with you if you buy into this shit even when you're 20. Kerry has the best of both worlds, a war hero who came back and opposed the Vietnam War. I know that's how you like to paint it, but you guys like to paint Teddy Kennedy as a car safety expert and a great swimmer too. If Kerry had the courage of his convictions, he should have gone to Canada, not Vietnam. I really don't understand what the hell motivated him back then, which is just one more thing about him that gives me the creeps. I don't think he has a clue what he's about, and he never has. He reminds me of the Scream mask ghoul, except there's something behind the ghoul's mask. Get out of your video game world and face real life. Boy, I bet you're a great dad. You might want to keep in mind that the Geneva Conventions prohibit things like keeping POWs in cells or isolated from each other. Those are the kinds of provisions we need to violate. When the cops interrogate criminals they don't put them all in the same holding cell so they can get their stories straight. Mike, still defending violating Geneva conventions. Absolutely. You'd think that Moses brought down the Geneva Conventions along with the 10 commandments, the way some people talk about it. There's all kinds of legalistic wrangling going on right now, and, it likely will turn out, we have not violated the Geneva Conventions. But that's not the real point we really care about. The Geneva Conventions are (mostly rightly) revered as a commitment to limit the savagery and brutality of war. Like the Sermon on the Mount, they may be a little naïve, dumb and philosophically incoherent, but the thrust of it is pretty powerful and worth paying attention to. Here's the point: the people we're fighting against care fuck all about the Geneva Conventions, except as a club to beat us with. The sight of the Arab world lifting it's dirty little pinkie finger and offering cocktail party moral criticism to the West over treatment of prisoners is even more absurd than it is hypocritical and disgusting. It's like listening to Ted Bundy bitch about the guards calling him Nancy and spitting in his soup. Where America has committed serious spirit of the law violations of the Geneva Conventions, we've already investigated, taken it seriously and made changes. As for letter of the law violations, they're fine with me. Let's not forget, those pictures were taken months ago. The people involved were in deep shit long before those pictures went public. The system has been working pretty well to deal with this. The soldier who first reported the abuses has not been disciplined--his reports triggered a huge investigation. well with the voters, please keep thinking that. As a great man once said, Bring it on! Quoting Kerry now? Bring it on. You seem to be desperately trying to tie in the last 80 years of leftist scandals, first Stalin, then Chappaquiddick. Well, I'm tying in, but it didn't feel desperate to me. But it is nice to see the weakening of the left, with you only being able to drown party girls after a few decades of rule. And that was Kerry quoting Bush, by the way. If there's a single event that epitomizes the liberal pussification of America, it is the reaction of your ilk to Bush saying Bring 'em on! First, you cover your eyes, scream Eeek!, jump up on stools and flutter your hankies that Bush would dare say something so macho and provocative. Then you prop up Botox Boy and have him echo it, while you all shriek and faint like teenage girls seeing the Beatles for the first time. Clinton used Fleetwood Mac's Don't Stop as his theme. I'm waiting for Kerry to play Just a Gigolo. the US must convene a competent tribunal
RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Gary Denton, showing his true colors: I don't understand the 'shock' Americans claim to feel at the lurid pictures. You've seen the troops break down doors and terrify women and children. curse, scream, push, pull and throw people to the ground with a boot over their head. You've seen troops shoot civilians in cold blood. You've seen them bomb cities and towns. You've seen them burn cars and humans using tanks and helicopters. Is this latest debacle so very shocking or appalling? snip There was a time when people here felt sorry for the troops. No matter what one's attitude was towards the occupation, there were moments of pity towards the troops, regardless of their nationality. We would see them suffering the Iraqi sun, obviously wishing they were somewhere else and somehow, that vulnerability made them seem less monstrous and more human. That time has passed. People look at troops now and see the pictures of Abu Ghraib. and we burn with shame and anger and frustration at not being able to do something. Now that the world knows that the torture has been going on since the very beginning, do people finally understand what happened in Falloojeh? And through all this, Bush gives his repulsive speeches. He makes an appearance on Arabic tv channels looking sheepish and attempting to look sincere, babbling on about how this 'incident' wasn't representative of the American people or even the army, regardless of the fact that it's been going on for so long. He asks Iraqis to not let these pictures reflect on their attitude towards the American people. and yet when the bodies were dragged through the streets of Falloojeh, the American troops took it upon themselves to punish the whole city. You don't know very many people in the military, do you? I don't expect anyone on this list, except the one or two reviled conservatives, to recoil or denounce this. Prove me wrong. Gary Denton hates America, hates Western civilization, doesn't even genuflect to the ridiculous fiction of supporting the troops. There's a clear choice in November: Bush/Cheney or Kerry/Denton. Denton just said that the burned and mutilated bodies of some Americans in Fallujah were less offensive than some dumbitch from West Virginia pointing and laughing at some terrorist's dick. We must understand and feel guilty for being the cause of our own murder and mutilation, according to Gary. Fallujah still stands, and our forbearance means nothing to Gary. He can't tell the difference between feeding someone into a woodchipper and leading a prisoner around on a leash. Yeah, America blew it. We did bad things and didn't supervise sufficiently. We may even have killed a couple dozen people for no reason. Does the phrase orders of magnitude ring a bell? I'm done talking to Gary. I may be done talking to the rest of you. I've listened to your all your faux bitching about me not being nice to you when you've come to expect everyone to be nice to you no matter how stupid what you say is. It's been entertaining, I'll say that. I love plinking stupid people in the forehead. But Gary has gone way over the line. I can't wait to see what y'all will say now. I don't expect much, so surprise me, prove you're not just a cozy coterie of moral dilettantes. Mike Lee Liberal Patriot ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
- Original Message - From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds I'm done talking to Gary. I may be done talking to the rest of you. Yea, it probably is time to package this sock puppet and put him away for good. It should be easy, since you're an expert on packaging and all. :-) Dan M. --- - ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
Robert Seeberger wrote: ... One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. I don't think that is true anymore. You can see solar cells in applications out on the street these days. A good example is the School Zone flashers (Hush Ronn! G) where using a solar panel to charge a battery is almost universal around here. Satellites, flashers, what's the difference? If it takes too long an extension cord to get power to it, the device should make its own. ---David Lights by the side of the front walk, Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
David Hobby wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: ... One way to make solar cells more efficient is to find a material that will capture energy from a large portion of the spectrum of sunlight -- from infrared to visible light to ultraviolet. I don't think this is _the_ problem for groundhogs. The problem is [or was?] that the cost to assemble a solar cells is higher than the cost of the energy it produces. So it's economically viable to put solar cells in satellites, but nothing else. I don't think that is true anymore. You can see solar cells in applications out on the street these days. A good example is the School Zone flashers (Hush Ronn! G) where using a solar panel to charge a battery is almost universal around here. Satellites, flashers, what's the difference? If it takes too long an extension cord to get power to it, the device should make its own. But some of the flashers I see (and I imagine that at least some of the flashers Rob sees) are in spots where it wouldn't be that big a deal to run a power line underground to them. I mean, they're 20 feet from actual traffic lights, some of them, and *those* are being powered off the grid. And the ones that aren't that close to actual traffic lights, I still don't think it would be that big a deal to power them off the grid -- but there they are, with solar cells on the top. So maybe the tech is improving to where it's economically viable to put solar cells on other things. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: RE: The Lost Hearts and Minds I'm done talking to Gary. I may be done talking to the rest of you. Yea, it probably is time to package this sock puppet and put him away for good. It should be easy, since you're an expert on packaging and all. :-) Dan M. You know, Dan, I don't buy your sock-puppet theory. Please demonstrate conclusively to me that Mr. Lee is, in fact, a sock puppet. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Disturbing evidence of torture
Why would the USA torturers _document_ the torture? When we had state-sponsored torture in Brazil, back in the 70s, when we were fighting communist by closing brazilian economy and establishing state monopolies, the torturers at least were shameful of that. This looks like the arrogance of the nazis, who documented all their atrocities, believing that they would never be punished for that Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
Erik Reuter wrote: Think about it, Alberto. IF they can make these solar cells for about the same cost as present solar cells, But that is the whole problem, isn't it? There's no evidence that they would cost even less than 3 times the current price. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
On Sat, May 08, 2004 at 11:13:19PM +, Alberto Monteiro wrote: But that is the whole problem, isn't it? There's no evidence that they would cost even less than 3 times the current price. I see no problem. What evidence do you have that the tellurium cells would cost more than 3 times conventional poly-silicon solar cells after the technology has been developed? The zero'th order assumption, until further information is available, would be that the cost would eventually be roughly comparable to Si cells. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
Mike Lee wrote: But Gary has gone way over the line. I can't wait to see what y'all will say now. I don't expect much, so surprise me, prove you're not just a cozy coterie of moral dilettantes. I don't really give a rat's ass what the dick-hat thinks about Gary but in case other's comprehension is as poor as his is I'd like to point out that Gary didn't write the quoted material. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: New Material Grabs More Solar Energy
On Sat, May 08, 2004 at 11:13:19PM +, Alberto Monteiro wrote: But that is the whole problem, isn't it? There's no evidence that they would cost even less than 3 times the current price. I see no problem. What evidence do you have that the tellurium cells would cost more than 3 times conventional poly-silicon solar cells after the technology has been developed? The zero'th order assumption, until further information is available, would be that the cost would eventually be roughly comparable to Si cells. Exactly, and if they cost the same amount and do 3times the power that means cheaper :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
Sat, 8 May 2004 23:11:39 +, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would the USA torturers _document_ the torture? When we had state-sponsored torture in Brazil, back in the 70s, when we were fighting communist by closing brazilian economy and establishing state monopolies, the torturers at least were shameful of that. This looks like the arrogance of the nazis, who documented all their atrocities, believing that they would never be punished for that Alberto Monteiro According to reports these are private cameras which are very common among U.S. soldiers. There may have been some psychological embarassment of the prisoners going on as well. Knowing the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld gang they will likely solve the problem by banning cameras for servicemen like they have already banned pictures of dead Americans and coffins. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
On Sat, 8 May 2004 16:10:51 -0500, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: Re: Disturbing evidence of torture I missed what happened today. What did Kennedy do? Julia I forgot to mention one interchange. Kennedy said that Rumsfeld et. al. knew of the abuses from Red Cross reports and did nothing. Rumsfeld took exception to this. Technically, Rumsfeld was correct. In reality, there was a small, and tremendously inadaquate response, not no response. Yes, a one paragraph press release - we are investigating reports of abuse. ... Trying to piece things together, it appears that the assumption that Americans are so naturally good that abuse is impossible underlied the planning. Anyone who accepted the facts that Gautam so clearly showed would never have put understaffed undertrained, virtually unsupervised guards on an overcrouded prison, asked them to prepare prisoners for questioning, and expected the prisoners to be properly treated. It boggles the mind. The Red Cross, three generals, David Kay, Bremer, numerous Iraqi's, the press in the U.K. were all repeatedly reporting problems, which were ignored. I think you are minimizing the extent this was military intelligence policy done with the approval of higher-ups. The Pentagon, meaning the GOP political appointees, approved of the tough questioning tactics in Gitmo and Iraq and Afghanistan - despite as General Taguba said, estimating that something like 60% of the folks in detention were innocent. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11017-2004May8.html http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/ Systemic Failures, not isolated individuals 'Cooks and drivers were working as interrogators' Many of the prisoners abused at the Abu Ghraib prison were innocent Iraqis picked up at random by US troops, and incarcerated by under-qualified intelligence officers, a former US interrogator from the notorious jail told the Guardian. Torin Nelson, who served as a military intelligence officer at Guantanamo Bay before moving to Abu Ghraib as a private contractor last year, blamed the abuses on a failure of command in US military intelligence and an over-reliance on private firms. He alleged that those companies were so anxious to meet the demand for their services that they sent cooks and truck drivers to work as interrogators. . . There is no evidence of abuses on the scale of Abu Ghraib being committed at Guantanamo Bay, but Mr Nelson said that like the Iraqi jail, it was packed with innocent people, who are only now being released. More reports from the UK press of sexual psychological abuse in Gitmo on my news site. http://elemming2.blogspot.com The intertwined sins of management by wishfull thinking and denial of reality seems to have been at the heart of this. It seems more and more obvious that, while the war itself was managed very well, the peace aftwards was significantly bungled. It isn't surprising: people do what they believe in much better than what they don't believe in. From the start, Bush didn't believe in nation building. We went into Iraq assuming we'd win (which we did very well), we'd walk in as liberators (which sorta happened...opinions were split), and the exile leaders who've been whispering in our years would quickly form a temporary government that would lead to quick elections, and a democracy that would be a great US ally. Just like my old company, those who had experience and understanding of the real challanges were dismissed as naysayers. State was virtually shut out, the general who had a more realistic assessment of the requirements of post-victory Iraq was pushed out of the loop after stating realistic requirements. The financial cost of the post-war period was also denied...remember when it was all to be paid out of the increased oil revenue? Even now, State is being shut out of the loop. One day Powell tells the Black Caucus there will be no request for additional funds for Iraq, the next day there is a request for 25 billion. Dan M. Except that the $25 billion is just immediate needs - a bigger supplemental request is expected after the election. I had no problem with the Democratic questioning, except for Sore Lieberman who should have run as Bush's VP. Rumsfeld was evasive and testy. Gary #1 on google for liberal news ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Lost Hearts and Minds
On Sat, 8 May 2004 14:43:28 -0700, Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Lee ignoring the title and head of the post. This is what we have now caused our supporters in Iraq to think. You don't know very many people in the military, do you? My nephew is a ranger who just returned from Iraq. Who do you have in the military? But Gary has gone way over the line. I can't wait to see what y'all will say now. I don't expect much, so surprise me, prove you're not just a cozy coterie of moral dilettantes. Mike Lee Liberal Patriot Mike Lee is Non-Liberal Non-Patriot immoral dilettante who can't read. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
On Sat, 8 May 2004 14:43:28 -0700, Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip This one could be marked as wingnut response number 6. 4) Denial #1: Isolated incident. 5) Denial #2: It was due to a low-level Bureaucrat. Dear leader would never tolerate such behavior. 6) Blame the messenger: You liberals always hate America. I notice you didn't complain when . Gary, who can actually read ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Disturbing evidence of torture
On Sat, 8 May 2004 22:18:23 -0500, Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sat, 8 May 2004 23:11:39 +, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would the USA torturers _document_ the torture? When we had state-sponsored torture in Brazil, back in the 70s, when we were fighting communist by closing brazilian economy and establishing state monopolies, the torturers at least were shameful of that. This looks like the arrogance of the nazis, who documented all their atrocities, believing that they would never be punished for that Alberto Monteiro According to reports these are private cameras which are very common among U.S. soldiers. There may have been some psychological embarassment of the prisoners going on as well. Knowing the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld gang they will likely solve the problem by banning cameras for servicemen like they have already banned pictures of dead Americans and coffins. Just spotted that there are reports that Kellogg, Brown and Root is cutting off non-essential email to and from Iraq for 90 days. Here is one report: http://www.kathryncramer.com/wblog/archives/000549.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bush administration fears more photos will surface
This disaster is George W. Bush's responsibility and this scandal is a direct reflection of the incompetence of his administration and their tendency to ignore competent experts in favor of loyal cheerleaders when making policy. The only good that can come of this is that any chance that this worthless excuse for leadership will quickly be relegated to the dung heap of history and we can begin to repair the damage that has been done. Unfortunately, we may never recover from the damage this abomination of a president has done to our country's reputation. Certainly, with this scandal, he has done more to encourage and embolden our enemies than any act of terrorism could ever have hoped to accomplish. Disgusting. Doug http://tinyurl.com/3fpt5 Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) took up his theme, telling reporters we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. A Senate source later said that the video does not show rapes or murders, an account corroborated by a senior Army official -- who said he believes the video segments are similar to the type of files that can be e-mailed or viewed on the Internet. But neither source said exactly what is on the video. NBC News has reported that additional photos showed U.S. soldiers treating dead bodies inappropriately, beating prisoners nearly to death, and the apparent rape of a female Iraqi prisoner, as well as the rape of young Iraqi boys by Iraqi prison guards. Defense officials couldn't confirm that account. During his testimony, Rumsfeld made clear his exasperation with dealing with a radioactive scandal, when images shot by a digital camera can be beamed around the world almost instantaneously by e-mail or stored by the hundreds on a CD. We're functioning ... in the Information Age, where people are running around with digital cameras and taking these unbelievable photographs and then passing them off, against the law, to the media, to our surprise, when they had not even arrived in the Pentagon, Rumsfeld said. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
