Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Rob said: A few people have been removed, a couple of them long term listees and one was a moderator here. We definitely are not queasy when it comes to pulling the pin. I'm definitely queasy about it, but I guess I'm not part of we. Rich ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Doug Pensingerbrig...@zo.com wrote: On the Americans are stupid issue, I would agree somewhat, but I would use the terms ignorant and/or intellectualy lazy rather than stupid. I would go with lazy more than ignorant, even though ignorant may be technically accurate, I tend to think that it is so easy to find so much information nowadays, that ignorance on a subject is often due to laziness (or apathy, depending on the subject). I agree that, in most cases he cites, stupid does not apply. Have you seen Religulous? Yes, but I do not remember very much. At the moment, I can only remember 3 scenes. One where he questions a guy whose job is to teach gay people to marry someone of the opposite sex. Another one was a trailer church. And the most memorable one was inside a mosque, simply because I was surprised to see wall-to-wall carpet (I guess I am used to seeing Christian cathedrals with no carpet) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Richard wrote: A few people have been removed, a couple of them long term listees and one was a moderator here. We definitely are not queasy when it comes to pulling the pin. I'm definitely queasy about it, but I guess I'm not part of we. I'm queasy as well. To my knowledge the only people kicked off of the list by the moderators had threatened violence against other list members. At the risk of pissing people that I've known and respected for some time, I'd like to say that I really don't think that JW has been very offensive and the debate he has spurred has often been interesting and informative. You all _know_ I don't agree with most of what he has to say, but I think he has every right to express himself as long as he behaves in a relatively civilized manner. Has he been arrogant at times? Maybe, but that sort of thing is difficult to judge via email. One can often sound arrogant or diffident or whiny and not really mean to. But if arrogance was the criteria by which we judged people for their on list fitness, how long would JDG have lasted? And as much as I disagreed vehemently with that other John, I miss not having him here to spar with. Please, lets get back to the health care debate and quit with the personal stuff. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Doug wrote: Has he been arrogant at times? Maybe, but that sort of thing is difficult to judge via email. One can often sound arrogant or diffident or whiny and not really mean to. But if arrogance was the criteria by which we judged people for their on list fitness, how long would JDG have lasted? ROFLMAO!! Exactly. And how many times did how many of us try to talk to him about the *way* he said things more that *what* he said. And as much as I disagreed vehemently with that other John, I miss not having him here to spar with. I, too, agree that both Johns have/had a right to his opinions and in no way should be threatened, moderated or have hands slapped. I can choose to disengage, also, and let you guys do what you do so well and dazzle me with websites and mathematical analyses. Please, lets get back to the health care debate and quit with the personal stuff. I disagree, Doug. Talking about how we have worked out talking to each other, especially after 'the big blow' and a few of the smaller ones is an important steam release valve, I think, and one of the ways this list continues to work. How are the second smartest grandkids in the world doing =+))? Amities, Jo Anne evens...@hevanet.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
I am just a lurker here. I seldom post. I follow for information and to watch debates unfold. To help me make up my mind on some of the issues discussed. I personally am not getting much out of the John Williams threads at this moment. Discussing the history, legitimacy and quality of discourse on the list is great for historians and perhaps once and awhile this type of discussion is instructive to new list members. However it does not meet my needs at the moment. I am now invoking my personal filters to reduce the wasted review time. Poud lurker, learner On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:24 PM, David Hobby wrote: I don't have current figures, but I'd guess the list has around 200 subscribers, but only 50 regular posters. (Welcome back, Jo Anne!) We call the other 150 lurkers. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
I've noticed on this and every other list and forum I've ever been on - any thread with the word Libertarian in the title has degenerated into a flame war within a few days. I don't know why. But it's like a massive ad hominem generator. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ From: lear...@mac.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:25:51 -0500 I am just a lurker here. I seldom post. I follow for information and to watch debates unfold. To help me make up my mind on some of the issues discussed. I personally am not getting much out of the John Williams threads at this moment. Discussing the history, legitimacy and quality of discourse on the list is great for historians and perhaps once and awhile this type of discussion is instructive to new list members. However it does not meet my needs at the moment. I am now invoking my personal filters to reduce the wasted review time. Poud lurker, learner On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:24 PM, David Hobby wrote: I don't have current figures, but I'd guess the list has around 200 subscribers, but only 50 regular posters. (Welcome back, Jo Anne!) We call the other 150 lurkers. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Entertainment? (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
Rob wrote: We are the entertainment Well, if it makes you happy to think so... :-p Jim Pithy remarks Maru Free Learning Centers Information. Click here. Learning Center http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g0ZWEerlNvjcTnRsNo52A1FP8ZVZe157BQ3SDIvPzph2znOsEVGog/___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Doug wrote: Has he been arrogant at times? The arrogance doesn't fuss me; there's far too many brainy people here to expect excessive modesty. :-) The passive-agressive posts, though? I don't mind admitting that kind of stuff gets under my skin. Jim Admitting weakness maru Scale Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gvzpWGF2KUFOuCRBhuD3d0cdOEh7z7ZnvsCQC5zIswiJDK6r17ZUs/___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
John Williams wrote: I would go with lazy more than ignorant I think that intellectual laziness leads to stupidity, though. How can live your whole life in this country and not know Medicare is a government program, to cite one of Maher's examples? Let alone not know there are two senators per state, or any other of a number of things. I personally have no interest at all in who Miley Cyrus is, but just by being alive (and having two tween daughters, to be fair) you pick things up. Additionally, it's one thing to be ignorant because you haven't had an opportunity to learn. It's entirely another to be *purposefully* ignorant. You don't have to want to learn everything about everything; there's no way to do that. And it's OK to have topics that are of no interest to you - I have no more interest in learning to operate a bulldozer than one of my clients has in learning ERISA. But if you squeeze your eyes shut and put your fingers in your ears and yell LALALALALALAAA anytime a piece of knowledge is dropped on you, whether it's because it contradicts your religious dogma or makes you question your personal weltanschauung or because you find learning to be far too onerous a task, I will argue that you're stupid. Jim Darn you guys for making me de-lurk Maru The difference is clear. Click now for a great laminating machine! Laminating Machine http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gxFAkkKCkz6GEzJTpopAVficpBNQiXpa3dex1f7ocUQnPBrl6qcCk/___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Politicians sell out again
On 12/08/2009, at 9:28 AM, Max Battcher wrote: Anyway, it's just a crazy thought experiment (that I created for use in a short story I never wrote) and I doubt that it would be easy to amend the Constitution to try it, but it might be something to play with at local or state levels and see if it survives/replicates... There've been a few parties that have looked to implement your idea through the 'system.' Down here in Australia, we have Senator Online, who are looking to have a representative elected into the Senate who would vote according to how citizens vote (you will need to register as a member of the voting site, but all you need to do to qualify is be a citizen.) With barely any promotion and having been registered less than two months prior to the last Federal election, they received 8000 direct votes (#1 preference,) with many more voting for them through preferences. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Jim wrote: The passive-agressive posts, though? I don't mind admitting that kind of stuff gets under my skin. Jim Admitting weakness maru Now see, I guess I don't understand what passive-aggressive means because I would think that his confrontational, sometimes sarcastic style has any passivity to it. Wiki describes P-A as passive sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations and says It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible. I'm not sure how that (or anything else in the article) applies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive–aggressive_behaviorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive%E2%80%93aggressive_behavior BTW, apologies to JW for this behind-the-back-in-front-of-your-face discussion. (Is that P-A?) Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
Doug wrote: Now see, I guess I dont understand what passive-aggressive means because I would think that his confrontational, sometimes sarcastic style has any passivity to it. I see it differently, perhaps. Passive-agressive may not be the right clinical term here, but I find repeated statements such as Im just asking questions and intimations of it being the other persons' faults for how they interpret what you're writing as a way to irritate someone and present a point of view without *really* presenting it. It may not be a textbook definition, but that's how it strikes me. I'm not saying JW does this regularly, it's just something I get exposed to on a lot of lists and it pushes my buttons, so it's certainly possible the fault lies within me. Erik used to do it to people here all the time (JVB was *especially* prone to rising to that particular bait(, and that was one of the reasons I could barely stand to read even his quality posts. Jim Confessionals Maru Click for a wide selection of quality scales. Scale http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1gvzpYOpCE2YebVUiKlopvQmf2vqQ0AtBC07PsS2vG1Cs1XlWJuYa0/___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
It's a put-on. And it's a put-on anyone who's been on the Internet for more than 5 minutes has seen dozens of times. The repetitive I'm just asking questions to try to understand, the feigned cluelessness, the detached pose, the deliberate obtuseness ... it's all carefully calculated to do one thing and one thing only - get the other person to blow his top so you can disregard them as being irrational or rude. It's kind of like playing with that old Eliza computer program. Anyone remember that? Patrick On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Jim Sharkeytemplar...@excite.com wrote: Doug wrote: Now see, I guess I dont understand what passive-aggressive means because I would think that his confrontational, sometimes sarcastic style has any passivity to it. I see it differently, perhaps. Passive-agressive may not be the right clinical term here, but I find repeated statements such as Im just asking questions and intimations of it being the other persons' faults for how they interpret what you're writing as a way to irritate someone and present a point of view without *really* presenting it. It may not be a textbook definition, but that's how it strikes me. I'm not saying JW does this regularly, it's just something I get exposed to on a lot of lists and it pushes my buttons, so it's certainly possible the fault lies within me. Erik used to do it to people here all the time (JVB was *especially* prone to rising to that particular bait(, and that was one of the reasons I could barely stand to read even his quality posts. Jim Confessionals Maru Click for a wide selection of quality scales. Scale Click Here For More Information ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com -- ___ Patrick Sweeney Firefly Games | www.firefly-games.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
Patrick said: It's a put-on. And it's a put-on anyone who's been on the Internet for more than 5 minutes has seen dozens of times. The repetitive I'm just asking questions to try to understand, the feigned cluelessness, the detached pose, the deliberate obtuseness ... it's all carefully calculated to do one thing and one thing only - get the other person to blow his top so you can disregard them as being irrational or rude. Or else it could be the socratic method. Perhaps it's a mirror that shows people what they want to see. It's kind of like playing with that old Eliza computer program. Anyone remember that? Why do you say anyone remember that?? Rich ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
Yeah, Eliza and Parry could be quite entertaining if they talked to each other. Eliza and Racter could be too, but Eliza didn't get to say much in those conversations .. On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Patrick Sweeney wrote: It's kind of like playing with that old Eliza computer program. Anyone remember that? (Type mismatch error: expected boolean value but found string 'cake'. Input not parsed.) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
On 8/18/2009 4:22:27 PM, Bruce Bostwick (lihan161...@sbcglobal.net) wrote: Yeah, Eliza and Parry could be quite entertaining if they talked to each other. Eliza and Racter could be too, but Eliza didn't get to say much in those conversations .. On Aug 18, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Patrick Sweeney wrote: It's kind of like playing with that old Eliza computer program. Anyone remember that? (Type mismatch error: expected boolean value but found string 'cake'. Input not parsed.) The cake is a lie? xponent Portalizations Maru rob ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
Rob wrote: Bruce wrote: (Type mismatch error: expected boolean value but found string 'cake'. Input not parsed.) The cake is a lie? Apparently the cake is neither true nor false. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Original Message: - From: Jo Anne evens...@hevanet.com Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:14:29 -0700 To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market Doug wrote: Has he been arrogant at times? Maybe, but that sort of thing is difficult to judge via email. One can often sound arrogant or diffident or whiny and not really mean to. But if arrogance was the criteria by which we judged people for their on list fitness, how long would JDG have lasted? ROFLMAO!! Exactly. And how many times did how many of us try to talk to him about the *way* he said things more that *what* he said. Well, nice to have you back in the conversation, but I differ with you on that. I think most folks with long memories know that JDG and I have gone at it many times back when he was on the list. He certainly got under my skin, but I did not count him as arrogantjust a passionate debator that really believed in his ideas. He was the most conservative long term member of the list, and I think it's no coincidence that I, an Obama delegate last year, is the closest thing we have to an arguemetative long term conservative here. I know there are long term folks more conservative than me here; they just don't get in long debates/ Indeed, I think we lost a lot of IAMOAC in the big dust upwhich ended up in a significant drop in tolerance with those who differed from the normative view of the list. I disagree, Doug. Talking about how we have worked out talking to each other, especially after 'the big blow' and a few of the smaller ones is an important steam release valve, I think, and one of the ways this list continues to work. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked nearly as well after the dust up/blow up. If you look at the number of posts per month when someone like John doesn't start a big discussion, it's down about 90% from before the times of trouble. Dan M. mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
