Re: Texan Education
On 08/05/2009, at 12:05 PM, Dan M wrote: Bloody po-mo all opinions are equally valid crap. Really gets up my nose, along with the everyone has to pass rubbish some school systems push. Gr. I hope you aren't too insulted by this Charlie, but you've summed up two of my pet peeves rather well; I'm 100% with you on this. :-) Why would I be insulted if you agree with me? It just means there's still hope for you... ;-) Some of my fondest memories was losing in tennis to my dad, who use to be the local club champ in his youth...and kept on remembering his game as I got older and better. My mother suggested that my dad let me win occasionally, and we were both horrified by the though. It's OK to lose, its OK to admit a mistake. Bingo. Learning how to learn from losing is one of the biggest life lessons. Yeah, there's the old adage Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser..., but the point is broader - accepting there's a REASON you lost is the biggest part of working out how to win, or pass, or even accept you were playing the wrong game. And accepting you were beaten by a better player is a step towards working out how they beat you, and being better yourself. You don't learn much by winning all the time. Charlie ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Texan Education
Dan M. wrote: But, big media is dying. Well, at least parts of it are. Think of the main sources of news 40 years ago: network TV and newspapers. We see that the Grey Lady is in terrible shape, and other newspapers are not far behind. The free news and fast blogging of the internet has cut into subscribership. I have no reason to buy a newspaper. Here in Brazil, there's a growing market for _free_ newspapers; they are very small tabloids, loaded with propaganda, suited for people to read while moving from home to work. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Texan Education
On May 7, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Bruce Bostwick lihan161...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On May 6, 2009, at 5:57 PM, William Goodall wrote: Anti-evolutionist Don McLeroy, a dentist and chair of the Texas State Board of Education, testified at Friday's hearing: I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts. Especially people who .. you know .. lack any kind of scientific expertise at all? I guess it helps if you go in already knowing what you believe and determined not to let objective reality get in the way .. I think this sort of thing has been unfortunately encouraged by rules and policies like the Fairness Doctrine, which was based on the well-intentioned, but seriously flawed, idea that every argument automatically has a legitimate counter-argument. Thus we get all sorts of experts to offer the other viewpoint on all sorts of things. On issues where there are many legitimate opinions, this kind of thinking dilutes them to just two. Big media has encouraged this sort of non-thinking. Nick And one other unintended consequence of the Fairness Doctrine is that the expert for the other viewpoint is often given the illusion of a level of legitimacy that he/she would never have had without that national media exposure, which can in turn make it far more difficult to counter that argument than it really should be from the actual validity of the argument itself. Of all forms of caution, caution in love is perhaps the most fatal to true happiness. -- Bertrand Russell ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Texan Education
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bruce Bostwick lihan161...@sbcglobal.netwrote: And one other unintended consequence of the Fairness Doctrine is that the expert for the other viewpoint is often given the illusion of a level of legitimacy that he/she would never have had without that national media exposure, which can in turn make it far more difficult to counter that argument than it really should be from the actual validity of the argument itself. Um, that's not an other consequence, that is the very consequence I meant. And yes, big media is on the decline, thanks to the inexpensive availability of many other points of view via the Internet. That's the topic of the paper I wrote that led to my friendship with David Brin, in fact. I made a comparison of the printing press v. the Church of Rome to the Internet v. Big Media, for the second Web conference. It is good to see it continuing to come true, as much as I empathize with my friends and former colleagues in publishing. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Texan Education
On May 6, 2009, at 5:57 PM, William Goodall wrote: Anti-evolutionist Don McLeroy, a dentist and chair of the Texas State Board of Education, testified at Friday's hearing: I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts. Especially people who .. you know .. lack any kind of scientific expertise at all? I guess it helps if you go in already knowing what you believe and determined not to let objective reality get in the way .. What is this shadow across the highway of Divine Command? It is a warning that institutions endure, that symbols endure when their meaning is lost, that there is no summa of all attainable knowledge. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Texan Education
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Bruce Bostwick lihan161...@sbcglobal.netwrote: On May 6, 2009, at 5:57 PM, William Goodall wrote: Anti-evolutionist Don McLeroy, a dentist and chair of the Texas State Board of Education, testified at Friday's hearing: I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts. Especially people who .. you know .. lack any kind of scientific expertise at all? I guess it helps if you go in already knowing what you believe and determined not to let objective reality get in the way .. I think this sort of thing has been unfortunately encouraged by rules and policies like the Fairness Doctrine, which was based on the well-intentioned, but seriously flawed, idea that every argument automatically has a legitimate counter-argument. Thus we get all sorts of experts to offer the other viewpoint on all sorts of things. On issues where there are many legitimate opinions, this kind of thinking dilutes them to just two. Big media has encouraged this sort of non-thinking. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Texan Education
On 08/05/2009, at 3:41 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Bruce Bostwick lihan161...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On May 6, 2009, at 5:57 PM, William Goodall wrote: Anti-evolutionist Don McLeroy, a dentist and chair of the Texas State Board of Education, testified at Friday's hearing: I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts. Especially people who .. you know .. lack any kind of scientific expertise at all? I guess it helps if you go in already knowing what you believe and determined not to let objective reality get in the way .. I think this sort of thing has been unfortunately encouraged by rules and policies like the Fairness Doctrine, which was based on the well-intentioned, but seriously flawed, idea that every argument automatically has a legitimate counter-argument. Bloody po-mo all opinions are equally valid crap. Really gets up my nose, along with the everyone has to pass rubbish some school systems push. Gr. Thus we get all sorts of experts to offer the other viewpoint on all sorts of things. On issues where there are many legitimate opinions, this kind of thinking dilutes them to just two. Big media has encouraged this sort of non-thinking. Yep. It would be ripe for parody, but the Poe Effect comes into play pretty rapidly. Charlie. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Texan Education
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:42 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Texan Education On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Bruce Bostwick lihan161...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On May 6, 2009, at 5:57 PM, William Goodall wrote: Anti-evolutionist Don McLeroy, a dentist and chair of the Texas State Board of Education, testified at Friday's hearing: I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts. Especially people who .. you know .. lack any kind of scientific expertise at all? I guess it helps if you go in already knowing what you believe and determined not to let objective reality get in the way .. I think this sort of thing has been unfortunately encouraged by rules and policies like the Fairness Doctrine, which was based on the well-intentioned, but seriously flawed, idea that every argument automatically has a legitimate counter-argument. Well, this is an area where you actually agree with Rush. :-) There are problems with the Fairness Doctrine, I agree. If liberal radio talk can't find listeners, then there is a problem, since listeners generate ad revenue. Thus we get all sorts of experts to offer the other viewpoint on all sorts of things. On issues where there are many legitimate opinions, this kind of thinking dilutes them to just two. Big media has encouraged this sort of non-thinking.\ But, big media is dying. Well, at least parts of it are. Think of the main sources of news 40 years ago: network TV and newspapers. We see that the Grey Lady is in terrible shape, and other newspapers are not far behind. The free news and fast blogging of the internet has cut into subscribership. I have no reason to buy a newspaper. And, there are now a lot of different TV channels, with several all news channels. It's not as it was when I was I kid where Huntley Brinkley or Cronkite were the only news sources we got on TV (ABC hadn't made it to Duluth until the late '60s, and then Sam Donanldson was an alternative (or maybe someone before him, I don't remember). I think what you are seeing is the breakdown of news that has to go by a fact checker. Bloggers put out what news they want, and those that believe them follow them. That's the real impact of the internet so far, we are grouping into ideological camps who each have separate sources of facts. Dan M. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Texan Education
At 06:39 PM Thursday 5/7/2009, Dan M wrote: And, there are now a lot of different TV channels, with several all news channels. It's not as it was when I was I kid where Huntley Brinkley or Cronkite were the only news sources we got on TV (ABC hadn't made it to Duluth until the late '60s, and then Sam Donanldson was an alternative (or maybe someone before him, I don't remember). Howard K. Smith? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Texan Education
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Bell Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:13 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Texan Education Bloody po-mo all opinions are equally valid crap. Really gets up my nose, along with the everyone has to pass rubbish some school systems push. Gr. I hope you aren't too insulted by this Charlie, but you've summed up two of my pet peeves rather well; I'm 100% with you on this. :-) Some of my fondest memories was losing in tennis to my dad, who use to be the local club champ in his youth...and kept on remembering his game as I got older and better. My mother suggested that my dad let me win occasionally, and we were both horrified by the though. It's OK to lose, its OK to admit a mistake. Dan M. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
