Re: Gautam's energy levels
Gautam Mukunda wrote: Without commenting on my own salary, I would point out that between the various taxes and government-mandated deductions in my salary, I end up paying 42% to the government. That's _before_ I deduct for my 401K and things like that. I'm trying to remember what 401K is. I know we don't have to pay the government much right now - in fact we usually get a few hundred back - because my mom's been complaining that, what with the new cheese business doing well, and the bro and I about to stop being dependents, she may actually have to start paying for the first time since they started farming. (I've never made enough money to have to pay taxes, so I don't know much about this either) I also live in Manhattan. Despite the fact that I have _4_ roommates, my rent+utilities exceeds $1300 per month. There are plenty of people at McKinsey - or any other financial/consulting firm - who make more than $120K/year (I assume - salary figures are confidential, but that isn't that much by financial world standards), but I understand quite well why they say that it doesn't go nearly as far as you might think. nod That's the good bit. You don't get paid a lot but you get perks - almost always, with a farming job, housing (usually crappy housing [there won't be any indoor plumbing when I go home] but housing), and usually food. My parents give their employees a pig and a cow - dead and cut up and all, of course. And as much milk as you want. grin J. van Baardwijk wrote: You are correct -- that is not a lot. GRIN OK, maybe it is a reasonable wage for a trained herdsman, but personally, I do not even bother to get out of bed for 15-20k per year. If I was having to do math all the time I *know* I wouldn't get out of bed for 120K a year. Farming's what I love. It pays nothing, and I end up with scars and muddy clothes and stuff, but there we are. grin I was just mildly curious, really. I just don't *know* what people make, or what that translates to. My family's financial situation is so muddy that it's impossible to judge anything. Anyway. Cool. goes to bed Kat Feete Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - George Carlin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
K. Feete wrote: I'm trying to remember what 401K is. A 401K is a retirement package. An employee invests some set percentage of her salary each pay period into one or more stock market or bond funds. The employer often matches the employee's investment in those funds, which helps a lot. Different funds have different trade-offs of risk, and of the rate they're likely to increase in value. Fund risks range from slow, steady, and very safe bonds, to stocks in old, established companies, to high-risk stocks in brand-new companies. As for salary information, at my last job, I made about $45,000 a year (pre-taxes) programming. After taxes, 401K, voluntary investment into company stock, and a pledge I made to pay a percentage to United Way, etc., I ended up getting a little over $1300 every 2-week pay period. Luckily, things here in north Alabama aren't as obscenely expensive as they are in NYC ;-), and my lifestyle doesn't exactly make me a party animal, so I was able to save a pretty good amount. That's been helping me a lot as I look for another job. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages ... http://www.sloan3d.com/brinl Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
Nick Arnett wrote: And a note on salaries, professionals, etc. There's at least one very large exception to the pattern of professional hours and salaries we're been talking about -- aerospace, where even the engineers are unionized. That always seems strange to me -- very well-educated, highly paid professionals, some of whom practically work to rule. Boeing is Unionized, I have not heard of any others that are. Doug non-unionized aerospace engineer (sort of) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
Gautam Mukunda wrote: Hi Ticia, Thanks, I, umm, think. I don't think my energy levels are anything out of the ordinary, actually. If you're interested, my normal weekday schedule looks something like: 5:45 - wake up (Definitely the worst part of my day) 6:15 - go to the gym 7:45 - get back from gym 8:30 - leave for work gasp The man works out as well! *Before* work!!! deep jealous sigh Ticia ',:) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
Gautam Mukunda wrote: Without commenting on my own salary, I would point out that between the various taxes and government-mandated deductions in my salary, I end up paying 42% to the government. That's _before_ I deduct for my 401K and things like that. I also live in Manhattan. Despite the fact that I have _4_ roommates, my rent+utilities exceeds $1300 per month. Now *that* is obscene. You also have to eat most of your meals outside, which is probably more expensive than grocery shopping and cooking yourself. And those living expenses add up... do you get compensated for travel (both time and expense)? I certainly do not envy you your work hours being stuck at the office wearing your suit. I may have 60 hr weeks as well sometimes if I count my lunch 'breaks' and commuting time (average of 3 hrs a day) and home working time; I'm just glad I can finish my reports at home in my pj's, surrounded by my own home comforts. And then can take a day off to recover afterwards. I'm so lucky. :) Been discussing this with my husband, over here in Netherland we also pay a lot of tax but have many benefits as well such as being able to deduct the interest on your mortgage from your taxes. Our pension is in part deducted from our gross salary and in part paid by our employer, and is much cheaper anyway than in the States (same goes for insurance). And our contracts tend to feature 13th month extra pay and vacation pay (8% of your monthly salary paid out in May) and travel compensation and employer + governement sponsored childcare placing (which could be better, but we're making progress). Also you get government support for each child and tons of tax breaks for assorted issues. Being in the top end of the salary scale sucks over here (most rich people flee the restrictions), but being in the middle as we are it can be very beneficial indeed. :) It's interesting, actually, the cultural differences. Over here personal time is sacred. Most Dutch people get about 5 weeks of vacation a year which they like to spend in far off places either travelling or skiiing or roasting on a beach (bit of a necessity as well in this drab and grey country). And they work exactly 40 (or 37, or 22, depending on your contract) hrs a week, preferably from 9.00-5.30 (not counting lunch), after which they go on to their personal affairs (sports or other clubs) far away from coworkers. Foreigners here complain about how hard it is to get to know people, as coworkers hardly every socialize outside work (and when they do, it's a work-related outing); you have to make friends in your own way in your own time. The funny part is the Dutch do get a lot done in their 8 exact hrs a day, foreign managers have said that their Dutch employees simply make sure they get their workload done before 5, which is unheard of in say Britain. Behold the positive side of this personal time = sacred philosophy. People work harder and more efficiently and our national production per capity is as high or higher than in countries where people routinely have to work 60 hr weeks to keep up with the coworkers who also stay late, etc... Having said that, a lot of my coworkers seem to do very little indeed on any given day. I can only imagine what it must be like in other countries... ;) on a 37 hr contract meaning I work 41 hrs one week and 33 the next, Ticia ',:) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Gautam's energy levels
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ticia ... Foreigners here complain about how hard it is to get to know people, as coworkers hardly every socialize outside work (and when they do, it's a work-related outing); you have to make friends in your own way in your own time. On the other hand, I can report from experience that, much like Japan, visiting on business is a real treat from the standpoint of socializing. You folks really take care of your visitors. Very much as in Japan, it's the foreign residents who tend to feel isolated. I wonder if the Dutch who visit here are as frustrated as the Japanese by the fact that here in the states, we don't ensure that our business visitors are sufficiently entertained each evening. I should note that my impression of the Netherlands has been colored by having been in Amsterdam on Queen's Day. What a party... And a note on salaries, professionals, etc. There's at least one very large exception to the pattern of professional hours and salaries we're been talking about -- aerospace, where even the engineers are unionized. That always seems strange to me -- very well-educated, highly paid professionals, some of whom practically work to rule. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
Ticia wrote: Nick Arnett wrote: On the other hand, I can report from experience that, much like Japan, visiting on business is a real treat from the standpoint of socializing. You folks really take care of your visitors. Very much as in Japan, it's the foreign residents who tend to feel isolated. I wonder if the Dutch who visit here are as frustrated as the Japanese by the fact that here in the states, we don't ensure that our business visitors are sufficiently entertained each evening. The few people I've met who have been on business trips to the States or Canada tended to fly all over the place in a few days time (cheap and efficient) add the jetlag, and no entertainment necessary. ;) But they did report being taken out for dinner, etc. So maybe it depends on the company... It does. The companies run by people who have been to Japan on business and see how the Japanese treat their visitors tend to treat their visitors in the same way. At least, that's what I gather from a very limited set of data points. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Gautam's energy levels
... some of whom practically work to rule. work to rule? Work to rule is a thing that labor unions do when they're bargaining, but not ready to strike. They'll start obeying every little rule, whether or not it is practical. One of those rules often says that nobody can be forced to work overtime, so nobody does. I guess it's passive-aggressive behavior on a group scale. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
--- Ticia Luengo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I reading this right? This guy works up to 80 hr a week and *still* has time to read a ton of books, watch games and movies, worry about being single in NY, and write such long and elaborate emails from the office at 9.30 pm??? flabbergasted and getting *nothing* done on her fortnightly day off, Ticia ',:) -- Hi Ticia, Thanks, I, umm, think. I don't think my energy levels are anything out of the ordinary, actually. If you're interested, my normal weekday schedule looks something like: 5:45 - wake up (Definitely the worst part of my day) 6:15 - go to the gym 7:45 - get back from gym 8:30 - leave for work 9:00 - get to work Once I'm at work my schedule varies a great deal - it usually begins with checking voice and e-mail then runs to whatever my tasks are for the day. My time for leaving work varies a great deal - when I'm on a case (as I am right now) if I'm lucky I get out by 8:00, but that's unusual. More often I get out sometime between 10:00 and midnight - I have been at the office as late as 1:30am. So on average, let's say: 10:30 - leave work. I usually spend the half hour of the commute (if I leave after 8:00pm I can take a cab home) on the phone either handling still more voice mails or talking to parents/other relatives/friends. 11:00 - get home 11:00-12:00 read, get reacquainted with roommates, etc. 12:00-12:30 - get to sleep On Fridays (like today) I usually get out considerably earlier - 7:00, if I'm lucky, go to the gym _after_ work, then do some sort of social activity (a party, most often) until 2:00-3:00am or so. Lunch and dinner are usually eaten at my desk, so they count as work time, I'm afraid. That adds up to 67.5 hours at the office on this schedule - a fairly easy week by Firm standards, actually - plus 7.5 hours in the gym, and 5 hours commuting. Plus I have all of the weekends, which is when I get most of my reading/social life done. Since I eat 10+ meals at the office every week (and breakfast if I work out is a protein shake, otherwise I eat that at the office as well), I actually do almost no grocery shopping, which helps. Anyways, the point of all of this is that 70 hour weeks are actually not nearly as bad as they sound, once you adjust. I only watch about 4.5 hours of TV a week (Alias, the Simpsons, 24, the West Wing, and Law Order) although, except for Alias, I catch even those shows only about half the time (our VCR is communal). So I actually have a fair amount of time to read and do other things - my weekends have (this study) been entirely free, actually, which has been great. That won't last, but I've enjoyed it while I could. So it really isn't too bad at all - once my schedule settled down I had much more free time than I ever thought I would. Since we're supposed to consolidate e-mails - I don't get overtime, Jeroen, so that doesn't help much :-) And as for being single in New York - when you do spend as much time at the office as I do (and are as bad at the bar scene as I am) it is a surprisingly hard city to meet people, which can get to you after a while. So let that put to rest the idea that I have abnormal energy levels - now, the people in my office who work my schedule _and_ ran the New York marathon, _they_ have abnormal energy levels. God, I wish I could do things like that. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
At 07:14 15-11-2002 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote: That adds up to 67.5 hours at the office That just cannot be healthy. Ther are people in this country too that have a schedule not unlike yours -- but those are the kind of people who have an ulcer by the time they turn 40, and have an heart attack by the time they turn 45. I don't get overtime, Jeroen, so that doesn't help much :-) Wow, your salary is *that* high? It is pretty much standard over here that in certain jobs (typically in higher management) you do not get paid overtime, but those people then have monthly salaries that are written in *five* digits. Such pay is awfully nice of course, but I do not believe it would be worth the 60+ hours each week and the health risks. I am quite happy already with my four-digit salary (although there is room for improvement there!) and my 42-hour work week (which includes 4 hours per week of commute and 2 hours worth of lunch breaks). Jeroen Life in the fast lane van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
5 figures a month would mean a minimum of $120K a year, right? I thought that was not all that unusual at McKinsey. Now that I know that, I guess I should have more sympathy for McKinsey employees :-) Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I am the lowest of the low here... Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Wages Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
J. van Baardwijk wrote: At 07:14 15-11-2002 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote: I don't get overtime, Jeroen, so that doesn't help much :-) Wow, your salary is *that* high? It is pretty much standard over here that in certain jobs (typically in higher management) you do not get paid overtime, but those people then have monthly salaries that are written in *five* digits. A lot of jobs are salaried and not hourly. I don't know how it is across the board, but in Texas, to have a salaried job, it needs to be either managerial or require a degree (or special skills equivalent to having a degree); I think there's one other criteria that could be met instead, but I don't remember what it is. You *could* have someone work hourly on a job that wasn't managerial but required a degree, but depending on the demands of the job, it works out more cheaply in the long run to just put the person on salary. Anyone working hourly that works past 40 hours gets paid 1.5 times the hourly rate for the extra hours, and anyone working hourly that works past 60 hours gets double pay. At least, that's how it was last time I looked. (I never had to worry about figuring out time past 60 hours when I was writing paychecks, because nobody worked more than 56 hours in any given week.) The longest hours I ever worked personally were at an hourly job, at most 55 hours/week (and that was just Monday through Friday, never worked weekends), I ate at Luby's for dinner a lot (the calculation would be, will the take-home part of my overtime pay cover dinner there? Yes? Then let's do that, rather than make anyone cook), I had a social life on the weekends, and I didn't manage to finish a single novel during that period. It didn't last long, though. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
At 09:58 15-11-2002 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote: 5 figures a month would mean a minimum of $120K a year, right? I thought that was not all that unusual at McKinsey. Now that I know that, I guess I should have more sympathy for McKinsey employees :-) Well, I am the lowest of the low here... What, you mean that even the janitor gets paid the same amount as you? Well, so much for the added value of a college education... GRIN Jeroen Life in the fast lane van Baardwijk __ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
J. van Baardwijk wrote: At 09:58 15-11-2002 -0800, Gautam Mukunda wrote: 5 figures a month would mean a minimum of $120K a year, right? I thought that was not all that unusual at McKinsey. Now that I know that, I guess I should have more sympathy for McKinsey employees :-) Well, I am the lowest of the low here... What, you mean that even the janitor gets paid the same amount as you? Well, so much for the added value of a college education... GRIN It may be that the janitor is not an employee of McKinsey, but of a janitorial service hired either by McKinsey or whoever is in charge of that sort of thing in the building. So then he could be the lowest of the low and still be making more than the janitor that services the offices he uses. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
Erik Rueter wrote: 5 figures a month would mean a minimum of $120K a year, right? I thought that was not all that unusual at McKinsey. Now that I know that, I guess I should have more sympathy for McKinsey employees :-) Ye gods, but that is an obscene amount of money. Brings up a point of curiousity for me: what sort of money, exactly, do people make? I know in a vague way what my parents gross, but since they're running their own business that doesn't mean much. Last I heard, once business expenses were subtracted, we were somewhere under 20k a year but that still doesn't mean much... and, now that I think of it, isn't necessarily right either. Gah. Myself, I thought I was doing great when I was making £240 a week (about $350) for 60 hours a week or so of work... when I start working this January, realistically, I'm going to be paid whatever my parents can afford to pay me, but practically I think the going wage for a trained herdsman is 15-20k. Er, is that not a lot? Kat Money? What's that? Feete - What you have to remember is that in the movies there are two types of people 1) the directors, artists, actors and so on who have to do things and are often quite human and 2) the other lifeforms. Unfortunately you have to deal with the other lifeforms first. It is impossible to exaggerate their baleful stupidity. - Terry Pratchett ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
Erik Rueter wrote: 5 figures a month would mean a minimum of $120K a year, right? I thought that was not all that unusual at McKinsey. Now that I know that, I guess I should have more sympathy for McKinsey employees :-) Ye gods, but that is an obscene amount of money. Brings up a point of curiousity for me: what sort of money, exactly, do people make? I know in a vague way what my parents gross, but since they're running their own business that doesn't mean much. Last I heard, once business expenses were subtracted, we were somewhere under 20k a year but that still doesn't mean much... and, now that I think of it, isn't necessarily right either. Gah. Myself, I thought I was doing great when I was making £240 a week (about $350) for 60 hours a week or so of work... when I start working this January, realistically, I'm going to be paid whatever my parents can afford to pay me, but practically I think the going wage for a trained herdsman is 15-20k. Er, is that not a lot? Kat Money? What's that? Feete Without commenting on my own salary, I would point out that between the various taxes and government-mandated deductions in my salary, I end up paying 42% to the government. That's _before_ I deduct for my 401K and things like that. I also live in Manhattan. Despite the fact that I have _4_ roommates, my rent+utilities exceeds $1300 per month. There are plenty of people at McKinsey - or any other financial/consulting firm - who make more than $120K/year (I assume - salary figures are confidential, but that isn't that much by financial world standards), but I understand quite well why they say that it doesn't go nearly as far as you might think. If you're interested in distributions, you could take a look at the CIA World Factbook, which has some info. on things that, as do the BLS, the World Bank, and things like that. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip You don't get overtime for almost any profession in the US, so far as I know. My parents (a physicist and an engineer) don't either. When I was doing locum tenens (sort of a Kelly Girl doctor, i.e. via an agency) I did get overtime for hours over 40 (agency) or 50 (myself)/week. As a staff member of a clinic, however, there would be no overtime - and I don't think so for a hospital either. Except for those who work part-time (and their 25 usually creeps up to 30-35 hours), most docs put in at least 55-65 hours/week, and I have 'gonzo' subspecialist friends who do 80+ regularly. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wages Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
A lot of jobs are salaried and not hourly. I don't know how it is across the board, but in Texas, to have a salaried job, it needs to be either managerial or require a degree (or special skills equivalent to having a degree); I think there's one other criteria that could be met instead, but I don't remember what it is. You *could* have someone work hourly on a job that wasn't managerial but required a degree, but depending on the demands of the job, it works out more cheaply in the long run to just put the person on salary. Anyone working hourly that works past 40 hours gets paid 1.5 times the hourly rate for the extra hours, and anyone working hourly that works past 60 hours gets double pay. At least, that's how it was last time I looked. (I never had to worry about figuring out time past 60 hours when I was writing paychecks, because nobody worked more than 56 hours in any given week.) The longest hours I ever worked personally were at an hourly job, at most 55 hours/week (and that was just Monday through Friday, never worked weekends), I ate at Luby's for dinner a lot (the calculation would be, will the take-home part of my overtime pay cover dinner there? Yes? Then let's do that, rather than make anyone cook), I had a social life on the weekends, and I didn't manage to finish a single novel during that period. It didn't last long, though. :) Julia You are right, there are three job classifications that can be called salaried, but I cannot remember the other class either. The only part of law is that a person receive 1.5 times pay after 40 hours. There are no provisions for working 60+ hours, or double time for working holidays, or shift differentials, these are just incentives that an employee can offer. Also if a 'supervisor' does less than 45% (by hours) unique work from his subordinates, then he really isn't a supervisor and qualifies for overtime pay. And there is a weird way they calculate overtime pay for supervisors. If your normal salary is $400 for 40 hours, and you work 50 hours, your pay is 400/50= 8, (8*40) + (12*10) = $480. So you lost $70. There is some hours limit on how much your base hourly rate can be reduced. I had a job and was hired as a salaried employee, I even had four people working underneath me, but I was still just an electrician/mechanic. I couldn't fire them or set their hours. My only duties above them was I planned the major projects and directed them in their work, but 99% of the time I was right next to them turning wrenches and wiring machines. There was a fight the one time I worked overtime. To compensate they gave me extra time off, illegal at that time, then a few weeks later made me salaried. Kevin T. But that's in the past now (please don't go on strike, please don't go on strike, please don't go on strike) prayer to union/governor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels
K. Feete wrote: but practically I think the going wage for a trained herdsman is 15-20k. Er, is that not a lot? Kat Money? What's that? Feete It really depends on where and how you live, but around here, that will get you an apartment (with roomates), a used car, and enough finances to live with some comfort while avoiding drowning in debt, if you manage your spending very carefully. It is not enough, however, to buy a house or raise a family with any level of comfort. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wages Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
To compensate they gave me extra time off, illegal at that time, then a few weeks later made me salaried. Kevin T. Duh. I meant hourly. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
At 05:19 PM 11/15/02, Deborah Harrell wrote: When I was a resident, we calculated our hourly rate and found it was something between $2-5/hr, depending on how many hours we worked that week, so we *were* paid less than the janitors! I dunno how much the custodial personnel at school get paid, but those of us who teach get a flat rate per semester hour taught, or simply so much for teaching a 4-semester-hour course, which may not sound too bad if you divide the number of classroom hours into the salary, but when you take into account preparation time, grading of papers, and all that other stuff, the effective hourly rate goes down rapidly . . . (And whatever they got paid, they deserved more - hospital waste is _not_ fun to deal with, and can be deadly besides.) Like when an amputated arm reaches out of the trash and grabs you . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gautam's energy levels (was: Re: My return and baseball)
At 04:56 PM 11/15/02, Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip You don't get overtime for almost any profession in the US, so far as I know. My parents (a physicist and an engineer) don't either. When I was doing locum tenens (sort of a Kelly Girl doctor, i.e. via an agency) I did get overtime for hours over 40 (agency) or 50 (myself)/week. As a staff member of a clinic, however, there would be no overtime - and I don't think so for a hospital either. Except for those who work part-time (and their 25 usually creeps up to 30-35 hours), most docs put in at least 55-65 hours/week, and I have 'gonzo' subspecialist friends who do 80+ regularly. Not to mention occasions like the time my father needed emergency open-heart surgery on Friday night, and one of his doctors had to come in and do it . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
