Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: On Wednesday 2004-01-28 19:30, Alberto Monteiro wrote: William Taylor wrote: You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. Ok, but then there's another date when _both_ Galaxies 7 and 11 lost contact with the others: 1.6 BYA: Contact lost with three galaxies [7, 9, 11] Remaining Galaxies renumbered. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. But of course this would not allow the Cambrian explosion on Earth O:-) Eukaryotic cells and sex! http://www.fossilmall.com/Science/Paleontology/Geological_Time.htm On Wednesday 2004-01-28 19:23, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: Why not add the following: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. It depends on DB. Yes. And He wrote on 1999-05-24: Re: The discussion of mining minerals and ores on Mars (differentiated core, but easy digging) I'm afraid the dream won't work for a simple reason. There's a better source of raw materials just floating around a little farther out in the solar system. Evidence from meteorites is strong that there was a differentiated body that got broken up ~600 million years ago, and that that's what many asteroids may be from. If so, you don't have to drill at all: you just find the right asteroid and harvest the whole thing.* For more on this, see MINING THE SKY, by my pal, U or Arizona Prof John S. Lewis. He has some more books, too. dbrin * Some suggest this was one of 3 bits of evidence that the solar system was visited in that time frame. The other two were the Cambrian explosion of life (somebody flushed a toilet), and the claim that the age-distribution of ore-bodies of certain minerals that might be of interest to advanced civilizations shows a distinct drop for ages 600 million years. So I think it's fair game to add His scientific speculations into His fiction :-) I expect that he has a personal politcial agenda of supporting--or at least not undermining--support for evolution as fact. (I know that the pro-evolution theme is important to me) For this sub-theme it is critical that the Galactics *NEVER* mess with Earth. But they did: there are Galactic Library references to Earth - only they are too old. I don't like it and I ain't puttin' it in my version unless DB gives me direct instructions. The toilet idea just doesn't work. (Why is all DNA so simmilar? Heck, why is everything coded in DNA? Where is the trace of the alien biology?) We do not need magic aliens to account for the Cambrian. If we don't need them, and don't have instructions to put them in. [Of course, Alberto, you keep the semi-official timeline. If you want to put it into your version no one will stop you.] The Toilet Theory features in a non-uplift short story by Brin in his most recent collection, and could explain why such things would be on his mind. This, of course, doesn't change whether he wants it to be part of Uplift history, but can add fuel to whatever argument you choose... -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 2/24/2004 9:04:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Toilet Theory features in a non-uplift short story by Brin in his most recent collection, and could explain why such things would be on his mind. This, of course, doesn't change whether he wants it to be part of Uplift history, but can add fuel to whatever argument you choose... -- Matt Toiletbut can add fuel to whatever argument you choose... Fuel? Ah, so there's methane to his madness. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
The timeline has been very slightly modified to accomodate two literary coincidences that should bother no one but Alberto. 1492: Discovery of the Americas 1961: Yuri Gagarin in space 2211: First contact, 500 years after 1961 2492: Action resumes with the next Uplift Novel, 1000 years after discovery of the Americas. BCE/CE dates have been added. There is no entry for Cambrian Magic. The Tabernacle still disapears in 31 AxY. === Time-Line: History of the Five Galaxies[1] G = Billion, M = Million, K = Thousand; BCE=Before Common (Terragen) Era (=BC), CE = Common (Terragen) Era (=AD); BxY = before Contact, 0xY = year of Contact (= 2211 CE), AxY = after Contact; All years are standard Terragen measure. SadPaktar = Paktar that Progenitors Passed On from Main Sequence existence = Paktar 0 = 2.26 BYA; SS = Steve Sloan addition. CA = Contacting Aliens GU2 = GURPS Uplift, 2nd ed. --- 15B BxY/BCE: Big Bang (SS) 3.1G - 2.8G BxY/BCE: Massive terraforming campaigns. Evidence of age-long world-shattering conflicts. Sources mention 17 Galaxies. (Beginnings of life on Earth.) 2.8G - 2.2G BxY/BCE: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. 2.8G-2.75G BxY/BCE: Scholars attribute Paean of Loneliness to this age. The Paean of Loneliness is an ode to Uplift. 2.75G BxY/BCE: Appearance of first textual and archaeological evidence for Hydrogen Breathing and Methane Breathing sapients. 2.71G BxY/BCE: Transfer point to Third Galaxy discovered; wrecked Galactic-level civilization discovered there. The Progenitors and allied species revise their ecological ethics and practices in response. 2.7G BxY/BCE: First Machine Wars. Self-replicating AIs and nanotechnology are restricted and regulated in the common interest. Galactic Foresight Organization founded. 2.305G BxY/BCE: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. 2.3G BxY/BCE: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.263G BxY/BCE: Second Machine Wars begin. According to legend, self-replicating, intelligent, non-organic constructs-designed by both H-2 and O-2 combatants in the H-2/O-2 Wars-mutually decide their masters are insanely irrational, and so unfit to represent Sapiency. 2.2615G BxY/BCE: H-2/O-2 Wars escalate. 2.26G BxY/BCE (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies according to Inheritor legend. Progenitors Transcend according to Awaitor legend. 2.26G BxY/BCE (b): Artificial life enjoys considerable military advantage in the three-way wars between Artificial, H-2, and O-2 life. 2.258G BxY/BCE: Open hostilities in the First H-2/O-2 Wars end with the Cease Fire for Negotiations Toward a Mutually Beneficial Peace. 2.256G BxY/BCE: Macro-Nanitic sapient species are exterminated by the Organic species per the agreement of 2.258G BxY. 2.253G BxY/BCE: As Second Machine Wars end, Second H-2/O-2 Wars begin. This is partly attributed to an agressive H-2 faction in a newly contacted galaxy. 11 galaxies. 2.25G BxY/BCE: The alliance of Organic life defeats the Artificial species. Treaties restrict Artificial life to designated Reserve Areas. These treaties are still in force. 2.24G BxY/BCE: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. 2.23G BxY/BCE: First Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded. These agreements result in the official alliance of all Organic life against all Artificial life. Use of cybernetic technology is discouraged. The Foresight Organization is strengthened. 2.22G BxY/BCE: Progenitors Pass On, according to Transcendor belief. 2.202G BxY/BCE (a): Hydrogen Breathers exterminate sapient Methane and Ammonia life-forms. 2.202G BxY/BCE (b): Second Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded, forming the basis for H-2/O-2 interaction to this day. The first systematic Hydrogen Breather and Oxygen Breather cooperation in migration and ecological management begins. The Galactic Institute for Migration begins to take on its modern form. 2.15G BxY/BCE: An O-2 power vacuum leads predecessors of some of today's alliances to battle for control of the galaxies. Nadir of post-Progenitor dark ages. 2.1G - 1.9G BxY/BCE: Power struggles largely resolved. This is a crucial formative age for much of O-2 Galactic civilization as we now know it. The Library records from this time forward are notably more complete than for earlier epochs. 1.9G BxY/BCE: Institute for Civilized Warfare formed. 1.6G BxY/BCE: Contact lost with three galaxies. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. 1.4G BxY/BCE: The Library is reorganized into its modern form. The Uplift Institute is founded. 1.1G BxY/BCE: Contact
Re: Uplift Timeline
On Wednesday 2004-01-28 19:30, Alberto Monteiro wrote: William Taylor wrote: You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. Ok, but then there's another date when _both_ Galaxies 7 and 11 lost contact with the others: 1.6 BYA: Contact lost with three galaxies [7, 9, 11] Remaining Galaxies renumbered. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. But of course this would not allow the Cambrian explosion on Earth O:-) Eukaryotic cells and sex! http://www.fossilmall.com/Science/Paleontology/Geological_Time.htm On Wednesday 2004-01-28 19:23, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: Why not add the following: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. It depends on DB. Yes. And He wrote on 1999-05-24: Re: The discussion of mining minerals and ores on Mars (differentiated core, but easy digging) I'm afraid the dream won't work for a simple reason. There's a better source of raw materials just floating around a little farther out in the solar system. Evidence from meteorites is strong that there was a differentiated body that got broken up ~600 million years ago, and that that's what many asteroids may be from. If so, you don't have to drill at all: you just find the right asteroid and harvest the whole thing.* For more on this, see MINING THE SKY, by my pal, U or Arizona Prof John S. Lewis. He has some more books, too. dbrin * Some suggest this was one of 3 bits of evidence that the solar system was visited in that time frame. The other two were the Cambrian explosion of life (somebody flushed a toilet), and the claim that the age-distribution of ore-bodies of certain minerals that might be of interest to advanced civilizations shows a distinct drop for ages 600 million years. So I think it's fair game to add His scientific speculations into His fiction :-) I expect that he has a personal politcial agenda of supporting--or at least not undermining--support for evolution as fact. (I know that the pro-evolution theme is important to me) For this sub-theme it is critical that the Galactics *NEVER* mess with Earth. But they did: there are Galactic Library references to Earth - only they are too old. I don't like it and I ain't puttin' it in my version unless DB gives me direct instructions. The toilet idea just doesn't work. (Why is all DNA so simmilar? Heck, why is everything coded in DNA? Where is the trace of the alien biology?) We do not need magic aliens to account for the Cambrian. If we don't need them, and don't have instructions to put them in. [Of course, Alberto, you keep the semi-official timeline. If you want to put it into your version no one will stop you.] BTW, what was the date the first Cosmonaut went into space. Gagarin, 1961. Unless the soviets had tried before and failed. They only reported their successes :-) The CE/BCE system is annoying in that it lacks a year zero. Is this a real problem? We are recording dates, not computing periods. Not a problem, just a nusaince. 31 AxY: A small branch Library is installed at La Paz, Earth. The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. The flight of Tabernacle should happen _after_ Sundiver, because they carried a book written by Jacob Demwa in year 42 after Contact. This isn't my entry. It is from SeJ. We can assume that GU2 superceeds the earlier source or assume it is is error and make a correction. IIRC, this was overlooked in the GU2 Timeline. Nope. Its in GU2, missing from CA. Though I don't recommend it, I am happy to modify the entry. Just pick a date. I would like to present the recent dates in terms that are human-understandable. As in 277-Q1, or 277-February? No, as in 2489-May : Streaker flees to Kithrup :-P I tell you what. I will put the dates in a dual format. *xY/*CE and republish. On Wednesday 2004-01-28 19:26, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space on 12 April 1961. So the date for Contact is stuck at 2211 because it makes Contact happen 250 years after we went into space. 2212 just won't do. Math logic looses to literary logic. Whenever I find round periods like 250 years, it's convenient to accept them as approximations. 250 could be 251. BTW, where is it written that Contact happened 250 years after the first human flight? Alberto Monteiro Yes we could assume that 251 is almost 250. Of course, our error is even
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: 1.6 BYA: Contact lost with three galaxies [7, 9, 11] Remaining Galaxies renumbered. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. But of course this would not allow the Cambrian explosion on Earth O:-) Eukaryotic cells and sex! http://www.fossilmall.com/Science/Paleontology/Geological_Time.htm I know the scientific explanation for the Cambrian explosion, but we are discussing _fiction_, aren't we? Also, another reason might be that Earth's natural radioactivity had reduced below the threshold point where multicellular life became killed by it, but still high enough to produce high levels of mutation. * Some suggest this was one of 3 bits of evidence that the solar system was visited in that time frame. The other two were the Cambrian explosion of life (somebody flushed a toilet), and the claim that the age-distribution of ore-bodies of certain minerals that might be of interest to advanced civilizations shows a distinct drop for ages 600 million years. So I think it's fair game to add His scientific speculations into His fiction :-) I don't like it and I ain't puttin' it in my version unless DB gives me direct instructions. Ok. But maybe we could come to a compromising solution? What about writing that Earth scholars suspect that the Cambrian explosion was triggered by the Galactics, as the oldest record about Earth dates from that time? The toilet idea just doesn't work. (Why is all DNA so simmilar? Heck, why is everything coded in DNA? Where is the trace of the alien biology?) You are not paying attention to the Canon: _every_ O-2 life in the Galaxies is based on the same DNA that makes us. Even with the laterality choice. This is Uplift Dogma. Otherwise inter-world species would not be mutually edible :-) We do not need magic aliens to account for the Cambrian. No, we don't. But the Uplift _fiction_ does :-P [Of course, Alberto, you keep the semi-official timeline. If you want to put it into your version no one will stop you.] I am somehow hindered into updating my semi-official timelines now that they are becoming even less semi- and more canonical. My timelines were the basis of parts of CA and GU2. Though I don't recommend it, I am happy to modify the entry. Just pick a date. Ok, I will do it. No, as in 2489-May : Streaker flees to Kithrup :-P I tell you what. I will put the dates in a dual format. *xY/*CE and republish. Ok. I think it makes it more interesting for XXI centurians to read dates in *CE :-) Yes we could assume that 251 is almost 250. Of course, our error is even smaller when we 2211 is alsmost 2212. Nope. Not changing it unless DB insists. You can change it in the stuff you publish if you want. But it's Him who chose the date 2212! This date is in CA and GU. The lost Galaxies are 7, 9, and 11. Is it purposeful that the _11th_ Galaxy was the source of the agressive H-2 breathers, and that it will be reunited latter? This would be _Andromeda_, wouldn't it? I do not know. Please explain further. Better ask WT. He's the expert in Galaxy counting :-) c 3000 BxY: Earth's Axial Age begins. Axial Age? wtf? The Axial Age is a construct used by world historians. They use different frames. All start it at c.800 BCE. Depending on who is using the concept it then runs to c.400 BCE, c.200 CE, or c.700 CE. Even in its longest form it is a relatively brief span of human existence, it is even a reasonably modest span of human-kinds agricultural and settled existience. During the axial age Indian religions began to take on their modern form, Confucious and Lao-Tze taught, as Zoroastrianism arose, Greek and Roman philosophy took form and so did recognizible Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Ah, so this would be - according to Danikite belief - the time when the Rothen [or else] came to Earth to teach us again? Maybe you should explain it further for non-historians 280 AxY: [Streaker arrives on Jijo? SS] Streaker should arrive on Jijo in 279 AxY. Agreed. Please pick one of Q1,2,3,4. I am not creative. I am just destructive. I cannot begin to describe how not-interested I am in that degree of resolution. (Besides, you need to convert all of those to Earth-local not Streaker-local time, and GU2 says you basically can't.) Yes, that is a catch to justify all _small_ inconsistencies in synchronization Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 1/29/2004 7:13:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Better ask WT. He's the expert in Galaxy counting :-) Only that Earth is in Two, and Hurumphta, and supposedly the Hoon home world, isn't. [Contradicting GU2, I think. Though there has to be a colony world somewhat near to Earth or they wouldn't have been called in to clean up the mess.] William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
The timeline has been very slightly modified to accomodate two literary coincidences that should bother no one but Alberto. 1492: Discovery of the Americas 1961: Yuri Gagarin in space 2211: First contact, 500 years after 1961 (Over Alberto M.'s vigorous objection that it should remain 2212.) 2492: Action resumes with the next Uplift Novel, 1000 years after discovery of the Americas. Added entry that Cuthmar reaches Earth in 2212. On Thursday 2004-01-29 06:36, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Cambrian Magic. I don't like it and I ain't puttin' it in my version unless DB gives me direct instructions. Ok. But maybe we could come to a compromising solution? What about writing that Earth scholars suspect that the Cambrian explosion was triggered by the Galactics, as the oldest record about Earth dates from that time? Done. See entry below. c 3000 BxY: Earth's Axial Age begins. Axial Age? wtf? [Trent's definition.] Ah, so this would be - according to Danikite belief - the time when the Rothen [or else] came to Earth to teach us again? Maybe you should explain it further for non-historians Done see entry. Also, I check facts on pyramids. Changed dates. On Thursday 2004-01-29 10:18, Alberto Monteiro wrote: What about 2267 AD? It would be 225 years ago, or about 281 Jijo Years ago, or about Jijo Year 1650, as in GU2, p.150 [there are many references to 300 Jijo Years of Human Occupation in Jijo, but I can always assume that 300 is a close approximation to 280] Done. See entry. [NB. We are now talking about at most 225 years of Humans on Jijo. Can you reconcile the timelines?] Alberto Monteiro PS: I don't like that entry about the Soro message that mentions that Streaker left Kthsemenee System. IMHO, it should be replaced by the _actual_ date when Streaker departed. The core action of _Startide Rising_ [from Ch1 to Ch124] took a little over 1 _Earth week_, so it doesn't make sense to place the departure from the System _half_ a year after Streaker found the Derelict Fleet. I think it works. You assume the broadcast is late in 278/2489-Q1. Streaker in on the run through Q2 and enters Kthsemenee in early Q3. I have altered the entry. revised timeline follows. [By the way, this has been a lot of work. Do we want DB's imprimateur?] = Time-Line: History of the Five Galaxies[1] G = Billion, M = Million, K = Thousand; BCE=Before Common (Terragen) Era (=BC), CE = Common (Terragen) Era (=AD); BxY = before Contact, 0xY = year of Contact (= 2211 CE), AxY = after Contact; All years are standard Terragen measure. SadPaktar = Paktar that Progenitors Passed On from Main Sequence existence = Paktar 0 = 2.26 BYA; SS = Steve Sloan addition. CA = Contacting Aliens GU2 = GURPS Uplift, 2nd ed. --- 15B BxY/BCE: Big Bang (SS) 3.1G - 2.8G BxY/BCE: Massive terraforming campaigns. Evidence of age-long world-shattering conflicts. Sources mention 17 Galaxies. (Beginnings of life on Earth.) 2.8G - 2.2G BxY/BCE: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. 2.8G-2.75G BxY/BCE: Scholars attribute Paean of Loneliness to this age. The Paean of Loneliness is an ode to Uplift. 2.75G BxY/BCE: Appearance of first textual and archaeological evidence for Hydrogen Breathing and Methane Breathing sapients. 2.71G BxY/BCE: Transfer point to Third Galaxy discovered; wrecked Galactic-level civilization discovered there. The Progenitors and allied species revise their ecological ethics and practices in response. 2.7G BxY/BCE: First Machine Wars. Self-replicating AIs and nanotechnology are restricted and regulated in the common interest. Galactic Foresight Organization founded. 2.305G BxY/BCE: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. 2.3G BxY/BCE: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.263G BxY/BCE: Second Machine Wars begin. According to legend, self-replicating, intelligent, non-organic constructs-designed by both H-2 and O-2 combatants in the H-2/O-2 Wars-mutually decide their masters are insanely irrational, and so unfit to represent Sapiency. 2.2615G BxY/BCE: H-2/O-2 Wars escalate. 2.26G BxY/BCE (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies according to Inheritor legend. Progenitors Transcend according to Awaitor legend. 2.26G BxY/BCE (b): Artificial life enjoys considerable military advantage in the three-way wars between Artificial, H-2, and O-2 life. 2.258G BxY/BCE: Open hostilities in the First H-2/O-2 Wars end with the Cease Fire for Negotiations Toward a Mutually Beneficial Peace. 2.256G BxY/BCE: Macro-Nanitic sapient species are exterminated by the Organic species per the agreement of 2.258G BxY. 2.253G BxY/BCE: As Second Machine Wars end, Second H-2/O-2 Wars begin. This is
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: The timeline has been very slightly modified to accomodate two literary coincidences that should bother no one but Alberto. Yes, such coincidences bother me :-) 1492: Discovery of the Americas 1961: Yuri Gagarin in space 2211: First contact, 500 years after 1961 (Over Alberto M.'s vigorous objection that it should remain 2212.) That's because I don't like to contradict written material - not that one year plus or less will change too many things. BTW, this is one reason why I'd rather use CE dates instead of Contact dates: it's easy to mess with AxC and BxC dates and introduce typographical errors, but it's more difficult to change the now-set-in-stone dates of Sundiver, Startide Rising and Heaven's Reach. 2492: Action resumes with the next Uplift Novel, 1000 years after discovery of the Americas. Added entry that Cuthmar reaches Earth in 2212. Ok, maybe we can assume that the encounter with the Tymbrimi was so close to the New Year that the date became ambiguous. If, say, we had an encounter at December 29, would it make sense to start a New Era in that year, or wait two days and start it in the next New Year? [there are many references to 300 Jijo Years of Human Occupation in Jijo, but I can always assume that 300 is a close approximation to 280] Done. See entry. [NB. We are now talking about at most 225 years of Humans on Jijo. Can you reconcile the timelines?] Huh? 225 _Earth_ Years correpond to 281.25 Jijo Years, more or less [because Jijo's Year is (multi-luni)-solar]. Jijo's Timeline is written in Jijo Years, because that's what they use. revised timeline follows. [By the way, this has been a lot of work. Do we want DB's imprimateur?] Not until we have full support of the College of Cardinals :-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: Why not add the following: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. It depends on DB. Yes. And He wrote on 1999-05-24: Re: The discussion of mining minerals and ores on Mars (differentiated core, but easy digging) I'm afraid the dream won't work for a simple reason. There's a better source of raw materials just floating around a little farther out in the solar system. Evidence from meteorites is strong that there was a differentiated body that got broken up ~600 million years ago, and that that's what many asteroids may be from. If so, you don't have to drill at all: you just find the right asteroid and harvest the whole thing.* For more on this, see MINING THE SKY, by my pal, U or Arizona Prof John S. Lewis. He has some more books, too. dbrin * Some suggest this was one of 3 bits of evidence that the solar system was visited in that time frame. The other two were the Cambrian explosion of life (somebody flushed a toilet), and the claim that the age-distribution of ore-bodies of certain minerals that might be of interest to advanced civilizations shows a distinct drop for ages 600 million years. So I think it's fair game to add His scientific speculations into His fiction :-) I expect that he has a personal politcial agenda of supporting--or at least not undermining--support for evolution as fact. (I know that the pro-evolution theme is important to me) For this sub-theme it is critical that the Galactics *NEVER* mess with Earth. But they did: there are Galactic Library references to Earth - only they are too old. BTW, what was the date the first Cosmonaut went into space. Gagarin, 1961. Unless the soviets had tried before and failed. They only reported their successes :-) The CE/BCE system is annoying in that it lacks a year zero. Is this a real problem? We are recording dates, not computing periods. 31 AxY: A small branch Library is installed at La Paz, Earth. The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. The flight of Tabernacle should happen _after_ Sundiver, because they carried a book written by Jacob Demwa in year 42 after Contact. This isn't my entry. It is from SeJ. We can assume that GU2 superceeds the earlier source or assume it is is error and make a correction. IIRC, this was overlooked in the GU2 Timeline. I would like to present the recent dates in terms that are human-understandable. As in 277-Q1, or 277-February? No, as in 2489-May : Streaker flees to Kithrup :-P Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space on 12 April 1961. So the date for Contact is stuck at 2211 because it makes Contact happen 250 years after we went into space. 2212 just won't do. Math logic looses to literary logic. Whenever I find round periods like 250 years, it's convenient to accept them as approximations. 250 could be 251. BTW, where is it written that Contact happened 250 years after the first human flight? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
William Taylor wrote: You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. Ok, but then there's another date when _both_ Galaxies 7 and 11 lost contact with the others: 1.6 BYA: Contact lost with three galaxies [7, 9, 11] Remaining Galaxies renumbered. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. But of course this would not allow the Cambrian explosion on Earth O:-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: 2.26G BxY (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies (according to Inheritor legend). Or transcend, according to Awaiter legend [CA] 1.6G BxY: Contact lost with three galaxies. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. The lost Galaxies are 7, 9, and 11. Is it purposeful that the _11th_ Galaxy was the source of the agressive H-2 breathers, and that it will be reunited latter? This would be _Andromeda_, wouldn't it? c 3000 BxY: Earth's Axial Age begins. Axial Age? wtf? 197 BxY: Earth-based observers discover planets in the habitable zone. These include NuDawn around Tau Ceti and Easter around Alpha Centuri A. Ok, now that we've discussed a lot about that, why not _abandon_ the cliché of Alpha Centauri A and place Easter around B? :-) 0xY /2211 CE: First Galactic Contact. Human explorers contact Tymbrimi colonists. It should be 2212 CE :-P 31 AxY: (...) The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. No, it doesn't :-P 280 AxY: [Streaker arrives on Jijo? SS] Streaker should arrive on Jijo in 279 AxY. Also, all that talk about death and resurection by the Kazzkark fanatic could suggest that those events happened close to Passover... We have some scattered Earth dates: there's a reference to November 1st close to the Chimp Uplift Ceremony on Earth and Gillian refers to Alvin et al as dressing Halloween Costumes [it could be close to the celebration of Halloween]. Are there any other obscure references to Earth's dates, like Valentine, Christmas, etc? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: NB! I would like to make contact and all the future fictional dates 100 years in the future. The date for human NLS interstellar engines (2061 CE) is absurd. 2161CE seems safely remote. I don't think it's absurd - it depends on the rate of space exploration. It just shows that in some point in the 1980s there was a cusp event that separated the Uplift Timeline from ours :-) snip We can only speculate on _what_ we did wrong. Did the USSR fall too early? We'd stopped before then... For Trent - people in 1902 would have thought landing and walking on the surface of a heavenly body impossibly remote. In November 1903 we weren't capable of controlled powered flight. By November 1973 we had walked on the moon, the Concorde was a reality, the SR71 had broken all speed records, computer aided flight with super-critical wings was possible, the Boeing 747 Jumbo was in service, guided missiles had intercontinental range, a manned space station was in orbit. OK - nothing has happenned since then, but if all that happenned in 70 years, who knows what the next 60 years might bring... Cheers Russell C. (Based on the development between 1943 and 1973, my generation expected to vacation in space) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Some comments: 2.8 - 2.2 BYA: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. It seems that what is implied by the text of Contact Aliens is that _early_ in this period Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 became linked, and then a horrible War began, with total annihilation of O-2 civ, except for the Progenitors. This led them to Uplift. 2.3 BYA: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.305 BYA: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. Of course this is a typo: 2.305 happens _before_ 2.3 :-) 2.24 BYA: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. Contacting Aliens gives this date as 2.25 [ok, we can accept that 2.25 is an approximation - the entry in CA is quite long] Why not add the following: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. 0xY /2211 CE: First Galactic Contact. Human explorers contact Tymbrimi colonists. This was 87 paktaars ago by Galactic measure. Nope. BTW, why the dates are usually referred as after/before Contact or as years ago? This makes conversion to AD and BC a useless task, and we have had several different, mutually contradictory, dates for Contact. Based on the data of Sundiver, I could compute the Year of Contact with reasonable precision, and it was fixed in 2212 AD. 31 AxY: A small branch Library is installed at La Paz, Earth. The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. The flight of Tabernacle should happen _after_ Sundiver, because they carried a book written by Jacob Demwa in year 42 after Contact. 40 AxY /2290 CE: Sundiver incident. Library at La Paz is upgraded through a GLI grant. Sundiver gives the explicit date of 2246 AD [which corresponds to 34 AxY] I would like to present the recent dates in terms that are human-understandable. For example, it doesn't make sense to write 277.25 AxY: Garth invaded by Gubru. Why not _explicitly_ give some date? But this is something that is still beyond my computing powers: right now I am busy trying to spot some inconsistencies in the movements of Jijo's Moons. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
On Tuesday 2004-01-27 15:35, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Some comments: 2.8 - 2.2 BYA: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. It seems that what is implied by the text of Contact Aliens is that _early_ in this period Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 became linked, and then a horrible War began, with total annihilation of O-2 civ, except for the Progenitors. This led them to Uplift. Yep. 2.3 BYA: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.305 BYA: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. Of course this is a typo: 2.305 happens _before_ 2.3 :-) Dang. I thought I got all of those... 2.24 BYA: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. Contacting Aliens gives this date as 2.25 [ok, we can accept that 2.25 is an approximation - the entry in CA is quite long] Why not add the following: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. It depends on DB. I expect that he has a personal politcial agenda of supporting--or at least not undermining--support for evolution as fact. (I know that the pro-evolution theme is important to me) For this sub-theme it is critical that the Galactics *NEVER* mess with Earth. 0xY /2211 CE: First Galactic Contact. Human explorers contact Tymbrimi colonists. This was 87 paktaars ago by Galactic measure. Nope. So it needs to be 2212 CE. BTW, what was the date the first Cosmonaut went into space. BTW, why the dates are usually referred as after/before Contact or as years ago? This makes conversion to AD and BC a useless task, and we have had several different, mutually contradictory, dates for Contact. Based on the data of Sundiver, I could compute the Year of Contact with reasonable precision, and it was fixed in 2212 AD. I disagree. Very old dates (over 100KYA) can safely be refered to with years ago. Indeed, one wants to avoid using an epoch since it can imply undo precision. For dates under about 5000 BCE you really need to use an epoch. The CE/BCE system is annoying in that it lacks a year zero. You have two reasonable choices for a year zero. Either 1 BCE or Contact. I chose Contact since it is THE critical date in the Uplift Universe. There are a lot of good reasons for picking Contact as your zero year. In short, I like the *xY notation and probably can't be persuaded to change it. I might be persuaded to get rid of the *YA notation in favor of *xY throughout. 31 AxY: A small branch Library is installed at La Paz, Earth. The Human starship Tabernacle disappears. The flight of Tabernacle should happen _after_ Sundiver, because they carried a book written by Jacob Demwa in year 42 after Contact. This isn't my entry. It is from SeJ. We can assume that GU2 superceeds the earlier source or assume it is is error and make a correction. 40 AxY /2290 CE: Sundiver incident. Library at La Paz is upgraded through a GLI grant. Sundiver gives the explicit date of 2246 AD [which corresponds to 34 AxY] Ok. We have Contact at 2212CE/280 YA and Sundiver in 2246 CE/240 YA per CA and GU2 Lets go with 2246CE/34 AxY/246 YA. I would like to present the recent dates in terms that are human-understandable. For example, it doesn't make sense to write 277.25 AxY: Garth invaded by Gubru. Why not _explicitly_ give some date? But this is something that is still beyond my computing powers: right now I am busy trying to spot some inconsistencies in the movements of Jijo's Moons. As in 277-Q1, or 277-February? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
0xY /2211 CE: First Galactic Contact. Human explorers contact Tymbrimi colonists. This was 87 paktaars ago by Galactic measure. Nope. So it needs to be 2212 CE. BTW, what was the date the first Cosmonaut went into space. Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space on 12 April 1961. So the date for Contact is stuck at 2211 because it makes Contact happen 250 years after we went into space. 2212 just won't do. Math logic looses to literary logic. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Made some changes. -- Time-Line: History of the Five Galaxies[1] G = Billion, M = Million, K = Thousand; BCE=Before Common (Terragen) Era (=BC), CE = Common (Terragen) Era (=AD); BxY = before Contact, 0xY = year of Contact (= 2211 CE), AxY = after Contact; All years are standard Terragen measure. SadPaktar = Paktar that Progenitors Passed On from Main Sequence existence = Paktar 0 = 2.26 BYA; SS=Steve Sloan addition. --- 15B AxY: Big Bang (SS) 3.1G - 2.8G BxY: Massive terraforming campaigns. Evidence of age-long world-shattering conflicts. Sources mention 17 Galaxies. (Beginnings of life on Earth.) 2.8G - 2.2G BxY: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. 2.8G-2.75G BxY: Scholars attribute Paean of Loneliness to this age. The Paean of Loneliness is an ode to Uplift. 2.75G BxY: Appearance of first textual and archaeological evidence for Hydrogen Breathing and Methane Breathing sapients. 2.71G BxY: Transfer point to Third Galaxy discovered; wrecked Galactic-level civilization discovered there. The Progenitors and allied species revise their ecological ethics and practices in response. 2.7G BxY: First Machine Wars. Self-replicating AIs and nanotechnology are restricted and regulated in the common interest. Galactic Foresight Organization founded. 2.305G BxY: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. 2.3G BxY: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.263G BxY: Second Machine Wars begin. According to legend, self-replicating, intelligent, non-organic constructs-designed by both H-2 and O-2 combatants in the H-2/O-2 Wars-mutually decide their masters are insanely irrational, and so unfit to represent Sapiency. 2.2615G BxY: H-2/O-2 Wars escalate 2.26G BxY (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies (according to Inheritor legend). 2.26G BxY (b): Artificial life enjoys considerable military advantage in the three-way wars between Artificial, H-2, and O-2 life. 2.258G BxY: Open hostilities in the First H-2/O-2 Wars end with the Cease Fire for Negotiations Toward a Mutually Beneficial Peace. 2.256G BxY: Macro-Nanitic sapient species are exterminated by the Organic species per the agreement of 2.258G BxY. 2.253G BxY: As Second Machine Wars end, Second H-2/O-2 Wars begin. 11 galaxies. 2.25G BxY: The alliance of Organic life defeats the Artificial species. Treaties restrict Artificial life to designated Reserve Areas. These treaties are still in force. 2.24G BxY: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. 2.23G BxY: First Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded. These agreements result in the official alliance of all Organic life against all Artificial life. Use of cybernetic technology is discouraged. The Foresight Organization is strengthened. 2.22G BxY: Progenitors Pass On, according to Transcendor belief. 2.202G BxY (a): Hydrogen Breathers exterminate sapient Methane and Ammonia life-forms. 2.202G BxY (b): Second Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded, forming the basis for H-2/O-2 interaction to this day. The first systematic Hydrogen Breather and Oxygen Breather cooperation in migration and ecological management begins. The Galactic Institute for Migration begins to take on its modern form. 2.15G BxY: An O-2 power vacuum leads predecessors of some of today's alliances to battle for control of the galaxies. Nadir of post-Progenitor dark ages. 2.1G - 1.9G BxY: Power struggles largely resolved. This is a crucial formative age for much of O-2 Galactic civilization as we now know it. The Library records from this time forward are notably more complete than for earlier epochs. 1.9G BxY: Institute for Civilized Warfare formed. 1.6G BxY: Contact lost with three galaxies. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. 1.4G BxY: The Library is reorganized into its modern form. The Uplift Institute is founded. 1.1G BxY: Seven galaxies. Memnetic plagues lead to lawless warfare and spread of Ash. 830M BxY: Temporary loss of contact with Galaxy 5. Earth's seas begin to explode with multicellular life. 620M BxY: The ecologically insensitive Lions dominate the Galaxies. Ash spreads through 30% of Galaxy One and 20% of Galaxy Two. Complex sea life on Earth. 618M BxY: The Tarseuh forge a coalition with six other elder or retired Hero Races and overthrow the Lions. Temporary Loss of contact with two galaxies [adjusted due to Contacting Aliens internal incompatibility with 150M BxY entry]. 598M BxY: Apogee of the ultraconservative Institute for the Recovery of Honor. 590M BxY: Institute for Recovery of Honor wracked by ideological disputes, regarded
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 1/27/2004 5:28:18 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 545 MYA: Diversity is artificially induced in many worlds, including Earth [causing the Cambrian explosion]. This is the last reference to Earth in the Galactic Library. It depends on DB. I expect that he has a personal politcial agenda of supporting--or at least not undermining--support for evolution as fact. (I know that the pro-evolution theme is important to me) For this sub-theme it is critical that the Galactics *NEVER* mess with Earth. Yup. I'm just wondering who are the professional bouncers. And did they know what they were doing? Ya gotta throw an Alvin outta the computer every few millennia. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 1/27/2004 6:13:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 150M BxY: Social discord over redevelopment initiates Second Gronin Collapse. Permanent loss of contact with two Galaxies. [Four and Seven! Pay attention to the numbers.] Four Galaxies remain in contact. 60M BxY: A medium-scale time of troubles. A zone of Ash forms in the region that includes Earth during the Fututhoon Wars. The Twelve-Spin machine clan is scapegoated and suppressed. On Earth, Dinosaurs die off and the age of Mammals begins. You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. There is no proof in the Galactic Library that the dinosaurs died off. Maybe the Tarseuh will tell us what happened when they show up again. (Huh? But 600M BxY is when.) William Taylor Juras is mine. --D. Brin (?) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
On Tuesday 2004-01-27 19:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/27/2004 6:13:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 150M BxY: Social discord over redevelopment initiates Second Gronin Collapse. Permanent loss of contact with two Galaxies. [Four and Seven! Pay attention to the numbers.] Four Galaxies remain in contact. 60M BxY: A medium-scale time of troubles. A zone of Ash forms in the region that includes Earth during the Fututhoon Wars. The Twelve-Spin machine clan is scapegoated and suppressed. On Earth, Dinosaurs die off and the age of Mammals begins. You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. There is no proof in the Galactic Library that the dinosaurs died off. Maybe the Tarseuh will tell us what happened when they show up again. (Huh? But 600M BxY is when.) William Taylor Juras is mine. --D. Brin (?) Dear William: I dont share your enthusiasm for this plot twist you say DB is planning. In fact, given what I know about it the plot-twist seems more ugly than 'oh-so deligihtfully clever'. Indeed, if Andromeda and the Milky Way get severed from the main part of Galactic Civilization, it arguably makes Earth's misplacement not more plausible, but less so! My first literary option would be non-explaination. The Highlander folks never tell us where the swords are sheathed and Brin will just avoid explaining how Earth got lost. My second choice would be a simple explanation. 1) about 2 billion years ago the GIM surveys Earth. It (barely) has an O2 atmosphere and its highest life-forms are algal mats. Earth is a terraforming candidate. Worse it is located in a terrible neigborhood. There are few transfer points, hyperspace is full of currents, and only lower levels are accessible. 2) Therefore, the GIM cannot find anyone who wants to lease Earth and it doesn't bother to survey the place again. 3) The GIM goes back and checks its records. It runs some simulations. Earth is not alone. Galactics start to re-survey other planets like Earth. They worry about an epidemic of wolflings. Nevertheless, I will add more timeline points about the loss and rediscovery of Galaxies in the Sundering-Knitting cycle noting when the Milky Way is lost and re-discovered. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
On Tuesday 2004-01-27 19:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/27/2004 6:13:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 150M BxY: Social discord over redevelopment initiates Second Gronin Collapse. Permanent loss of contact with two Galaxies. [Four and Seven! Pay attention to the numbers.] Four Galaxies remain in contact. 60M BxY: A medium-scale time of troubles. A zone of Ash forms in the region that includes Earth during the Fututhoon Wars. The Twelve-Spin machine clan is scapegoated and suppressed. On Earth, Dinosaurs die off and the age of Mammals begins. You leave out the very important: 41M BxY: Rediscovery of transfer points to galaxies originally numbered Seven and Eleven, now renumbered Two and Four. Earth is in Galaxy Two which was Galaxy Seven, which was lost from 150M BxY to 41M BxY, which includes the height and end of the age of dinosaurs. There is no proof in the Galactic Library that the dinosaurs died off. Maybe the Tarseuh will tell us what happened when they show up again. (Huh? But 600M BxY is when.) William Taylor Also, when CA and GU2 seem to conflict, I am going to favor GU2. (I have very mixed feeling about CA.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Yet more revisions. This time related to sundering-knitting. One snarky remark I am already starting to regret. -- Time-Line: History of the Five Galaxies[1] G = Billion, M = Million, K = Thousand; BCE=Before Common (Terragen) Era (=BC), CE = Common (Terragen) Era (=AD); BxY = before Contact, 0xY = year of Contact (= 2211 CE), AxY = after Contact; All years are standard Terragen measure. SadPaktar = Paktar that Progenitors Passed On from Main Sequence existence = Paktar 0 = 2.26 BYA; SS = Steve Sloan addition. CA = Contacting Aliens GU2 = GURPS Uplift, 2nd ed. --- 15B AxY: Big Bang (SS) 3.1G - 2.8G BxY: Massive terraforming campaigns. Evidence of age-long world-shattering conflicts. Sources mention 17 Galaxies. (Beginnings of life on Earth.) 2.8G - 2.2G BxY: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. 2.8G-2.75G BxY: Scholars attribute Paean of Loneliness to this age. The Paean of Loneliness is an ode to Uplift. 2.75G BxY: Appearance of first textual and archaeological evidence for Hydrogen Breathing and Methane Breathing sapients. 2.71G BxY: Transfer point to Third Galaxy discovered; wrecked Galactic-level civilization discovered there. The Progenitors and allied species revise their ecological ethics and practices in response. 2.7G BxY: First Machine Wars. Self-replicating AIs and nanotechnology are restricted and regulated in the common interest. Galactic Foresight Organization founded. 2.305G BxY: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. 2.3G BxY: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.263G BxY: Second Machine Wars begin. According to legend, self-replicating, intelligent, non-organic constructs-designed by both H-2 and O-2 combatants in the H-2/O-2 Wars-mutually decide their masters are insanely irrational, and so unfit to represent Sapiency. 2.2615G BxY: H-2/O-2 Wars escalate. 2.26G BxY (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies (according to Inheritor legend). 2.26G BxY (b): Artificial life enjoys considerable military advantage in the three-way wars between Artificial, H-2, and O-2 life. 2.258G BxY: Open hostilities in the First H-2/O-2 Wars end with the Cease Fire for Negotiations Toward a Mutually Beneficial Peace. 2.256G BxY: Macro-Nanitic sapient species are exterminated by the Organic species per the agreement of 2.258G BxY. 2.253G BxY: As Second Machine Wars end, Second H-2/O-2 Wars begin. This is partly attributed to an agressive H-2 faction in a newly contacted galaxy. 11 galaxies. 2.25G BxY: The alliance of Organic life defeats the Artificial species. Treaties restrict Artificial life to designated Reserve Areas. These treaties are still in force. 2.24G BxY: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. 2.23G BxY: First Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded. These agreements result in the official alliance of all Organic life against all Artificial life. Use of cybernetic technology is discouraged. The Foresight Organization is strengthened. 2.22G BxY: Progenitors Pass On, according to Transcendor belief. 2.202G BxY (a): Hydrogen Breathers exterminate sapient Methane and Ammonia life-forms. 2.202G BxY (b): Second Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded, forming the basis for H-2/O-2 interaction to this day. The first systematic Hydrogen Breather and Oxygen Breather cooperation in migration and ecological management begins. The Galactic Institute for Migration begins to take on its modern form. 2.15G BxY: An O-2 power vacuum leads predecessors of some of today's alliances to battle for control of the galaxies. Nadir of post-Progenitor dark ages. 2.1G - 1.9G BxY: Power struggles largely resolved. This is a crucial formative age for much of O-2 Galactic civilization as we now know it. The Library records from this time forward are notably more complete than for earlier epochs. 1.9G BxY: Institute for Civilized Warfare formed. 1.6G BxY: Contact lost with three galaxies. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. 1.4G BxY: The Library is reorganized into its modern form. The Uplift Institute is founded. 1.1G BxY: Contact lost with one galaxies, seven galaxies in contact. Memnetic plagues lead to lawless warfare and spread of Ash. 830M BxY: Temporary loss of contact with a galaxy, six galaxies in contact. Earth's seas begin to explode with multicellular life. 680M BxY: Contact re-established with galaxy lost c 830M BxY. Seven galaxies in contact. [added by TCS to make the sundering-knitting math tally]. 620M BxY: The ecologically insensitive Lions dominate the Galaxies. Ash spreads through 30% of Galaxy One and 20% of Galaxy Two.
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:59:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . Cultural drift is inevitable. [So WT, how does this further the plot?] A blacksmith uses a drift to forge an opening where once there was nothing but solid material. The trick is to not make the hole so large as to have parts that are vital fall through it. :-) William Taylor - Little Giant tripping the light fantastic. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:59:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 60M BxY: The three core galaxies re-establish contact with Andromeda and the Milky Way that were lost at about 150M BxY. This is a time of medium-scale troubles. A zone of Ash forms in the region that includes Earth during the Fututhoon Wars. The Twelve-Spin machine clan is scapegoated and suppressed. On Earth, Dinosaurs die off and the age of Mammals begins Ya moved the rediscovery from 41M BxY to 60M BxY Big difference. By CA timeline, Galactic Civilization never sees the later age of the dinosaurs, living or dead, stupid or space faring. The ash forms outside of Galactic Civilization. Were the Futon and Twelve-spins-in-a-row wars in or out of Seven to be renamed Two. (Sorry, someone was going to do that sooner or later.) It's getting messy and we're probably in need of a word from on high. William Taylor It all started with the Thennanin being one meter too short. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
On Tuesday 2004-01-27 22:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:59:02 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 60M BxY: The three core galaxies re-establish contact with Andromeda and the Milky Way that were lost at about 150M BxY. This is a time of medium-scale troubles. A zone of Ash forms in the region that includes Earth during the Fututhoon Wars. The Twelve-Spin machine clan is scapegoated and suppressed. On Earth, Dinosaurs die off and the age of Mammals begins Ya moved the rediscovery from 41M BxY to 60M BxY Big difference. By CA timeline, Galactic Civilization never sees the later age of the dinosaurs, living or dead, stupid or space faring. The ash forms outside of Galactic Civilization. Were the Futon and Twelve-spins-in-a-row wars in or out of Seven to be renamed Two. (Sorry, someone was going to do that sooner or later.) It's getting messy and we're probably in need of a word from on high. William Taylor It all started with the Thennanin being one meter too short. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Sorry, my bad. = Time-Line: History of the Five Galaxies[1] G = Billion, M = Million, K = Thousand; BCE=Before Common (Terragen) Era (=BC), CE = Common (Terragen) Era (=AD); BxY = before Contact, 0xY = year of Contact (= 2211 CE), AxY = after Contact; All years are standard Terragen measure. SadPaktar = Paktar that Progenitors Passed On from Main Sequence existence = Paktar 0 = 2.26 BYA; SS = Steve Sloan addition. CA = Contacting Aliens GU2 = GURPS Uplift, 2nd ed. --- 15B AxY: Big Bang (SS) 3.1G - 2.8G BxY: Massive terraforming campaigns. Evidence of age-long world-shattering conflicts. Sources mention 17 Galaxies. (Beginnings of life on Earth.) 2.8G - 2.2G BxY: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. 2.8G-2.75G BxY: Scholars attribute Paean of Loneliness to this age. The Paean of Loneliness is an ode to Uplift. 2.75G BxY: Appearance of first textual and archaeological evidence for Hydrogen Breathing and Methane Breathing sapients. 2.71G BxY: Transfer point to Third Galaxy discovered; wrecked Galactic-level civilization discovered there. The Progenitors and allied species revise their ecological ethics and practices in response. 2.7G BxY: First Machine Wars. Self-replicating AIs and nanotechnology are restricted and regulated in the common interest. Galactic Foresight Organization founded. 2.305G BxY: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. 2.3G BxY: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.263G BxY: Second Machine Wars begin. According to legend, self-replicating, intelligent, non-organic constructs-designed by both H-2 and O-2 combatants in the H-2/O-2 Wars-mutually decide their masters are insanely irrational, and so unfit to represent Sapiency. 2.2615G BxY: H-2/O-2 Wars escalate. 2.26G BxY (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies (according to Inheritor legend). 2.26G BxY (b): Artificial life enjoys considerable military advantage in the three-way wars between Artificial, H-2, and O-2 life. 2.258G BxY: Open hostilities in the First H-2/O-2 Wars end with the Cease Fire for Negotiations Toward a Mutually Beneficial Peace. 2.256G BxY: Macro-Nanitic sapient species are exterminated by the Organic species per the agreement of 2.258G BxY. 2.253G BxY: As Second Machine Wars end, Second H-2/O-2 Wars begin. This is partly attributed to an agressive H-2 faction in a newly contacted galaxy. 11 galaxies. 2.25G BxY: The alliance of Organic life defeats the Artificial species. Treaties restrict Artificial life to designated Reserve Areas. These treaties are still in force. 2.24G BxY: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. 2.23G BxY: First Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded. These agreements result in the official alliance of all Organic life against all Artificial life. Use of cybernetic technology is discouraged. The Foresight Organization is strengthened. 2.22G BxY: Progenitors Pass On, according to Transcendor belief. 2.202G BxY (a): Hydrogen Breathers exterminate sapient Methane and Ammonia life-forms. 2.202G BxY (b): Second Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded, forming the basis for H-2/O-2 interaction to this day. The first systematic Hydrogen Breather and Oxygen Breather cooperation in migration and ecological management begins. The Galactic Institute for Migration begins to take on its modern form. 2.15G BxY: An O-2 power vacuum leads predecessors of some of today's alliances to battle for control of the galaxies. Nadir of post-Progenitor dark
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: NB! I would like to make contact and all the future fictional dates 100 years in the future. The date for human NLS interstellar engines (2061 CE) is absurd. 2161CE seems safely remote. I don't think it's absurd - it depends on the rate of space exploration. It just shows that in some point in the 1980s there was a cusp event that separated the Uplift Timeline from ours :-) Remember that in the Uplift story, there was an Indian Summer at the end of the XX century, where space exploration boosted with the foundation of extraterrestrial colonies. We can only speculate on _what_ we did wrong. Did the USSR fall too early? [ok, I promise I will check the other data later] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
In a message dated 1/26/2004 7:29:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: don't think it's absurd - it depends on the rate of space exploration. It just shows that in some point in the 1980s there was a cusp event that separated the Uplift Timeline from ours :-) Regan forgot to duck? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline
Trent Shipley wrote: Before do a write-up I needed some dates, so I re-collated the timeline. Let me know what you think. I have just returned from a week-long vacation trip, and I have 2028 e-mails to read O:-) But I promise I will take a look at the data asap. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline (was Tg Territories)
Trent Shipley wrote: 620 MYA: The ecologically insensitive Lions dominate the Galaxies. Ash spreads through 30% of Galaxy One and 20% of Galaxy Two. Complex sea life on Earth. I think I remember the Cambrian Explosion being closer to 560 MYA, but it's been a while since I read about it. 12 MYA: The last recorded wolfling race, the Paranaj, is discovered. Within 1000 years it is extinct. Duplicate entry. See 52 KYA. 52 KYA: The last recorded wolfling race, the Paranaj, is discovered. Within a thousand years, it is extinct. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline (was Tg Territories)
On Monday 2004-01-19 01:55, The Fool wrote: From: Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12 MYA: The last recorded wolfling race, the Paranaj, is discovered. Within 1000 years it is extinct. 52 KYA: The last recorded wolfling race, the Paranaj, is discovered. Within a thousand years, it is extinct. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Made a couple of changes - Time-Line: History of the Five Galaxies[1] BYA = Billion Years Ago, MYA = Million Years Ago, KYA=Thousand Years Ago; BCE=Before Common (Terragen) Era (=BC), CE = Common (Terragen) Era (=AD); BxY = before Contact, 0xY = year of Contact (= 2211 CE), AxY = after Contact; All years are standard Terragen measure. SadPaktar = Paktar that Progenitors Passed On from Main Sequence existence = Paktar 0 = 2.26 BYA; SS=Steve Sloan addition. --- 15 BYA: Big Bang (SS) 3.1 - 2.8 BYA: Massive terraforming campaigns. Evidence of age-long world-shattering conflicts. Sources mention 17 Galaxies. (Beginnings of life on Earth.) 2.8 - 2.2 BYA: Progenitors rule the galaxies in what is traditionally thought to be a Golden Age. Mention of 13 Galaxies. Records extremely sketchy. 2.8-2.75 BYA: Scholars attribute Paean of Loneliness to this age. The Paean of Loneliness is an ode to Uplift. 2.75 BYA: Appearance of first textual and archaeological evidence for Hydrogen Breathing and Methane Breathing sapients. 2.71 BYA: Transfer point to Third Galaxy discovered; wrecked Galactic-level civilization discovered there. The Progenitors and allied species revise their ecological ethics and practices in response. 2.7 BYA: First Machine Wars. Self-replicating AIs and nanotechnology are restricted and regulated in the common interest. Galactic Foresight Organization founded. 2.3 BYA: Progenitors separate themselves from affairs of lesser races, passing on laws and edicts. 2.305 BYA: First Wars with Hydrogen-Breathers begin. 2.263 BYA: Second Machine Wars begin. According to legend, self-replicating, intelligent, non-organic constructs-designed by both H-2 and O-2 combatants in the H-2/O-2 Wars-mutually decide their masters are insanely irrational, and so unfit to represent Sapiency. 2.2615 BYA: H-2/O-2 Wars escalate 2.26 BYA (a): Progenitors physically leave the Galaxies (according to Inheritor legend). 2.26 BYA (b): Artificial life enjoys considerable military advantage in the three-way wars between Artificial, H-2, and O-2 life. 2.258 BYA: Open hostilities in the First H-2/O-2 Wars end with the Cease Fire for Negotiations Toward a Mutually Beneficial Peace. 2.256 BYA: Macro-Nanitic sapient species are exterminated by the Organic species per the agreement of 2.258 BYA. 2.253 BYA: As Second Machine Wars end, Second H-2/O-2 Wars begin. 11 galaxies. 2.25 BYA: The alliance of Organic life defeats the Artificial species. Treaties restrict Artificial life to designated Reserve Areas. These treaties are still in force. 2.24 BYA: Zang establish separate peace with O/2 Civilization paving the way for a general peace. 2.23 BYA: First Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded. These agreements result in the official alliance of all Organic life against all Artificial life. Use of cybernetic technology is discouraged. The Foresight Organization is strengthened. 2.22 BYA: Progenitors Pass On, according to Transcendor belief. 2.202 BYA (a): Hydrogen Breathers exterminate sapient Methane and Ammonia life-forms. 2.202 BYA (b): Second Comprehensive H-2/O-2 Trucial Agreements concluded, forming the basis for H-2/O-2 interaction to this day. The first systematic Hydrogen Breather and Oxygen Breather cooperation in migration and ecological management begins. The Galactic Institute for Migration begins to take on its modern form. 2.15 BYA: An O-2 power vacuum leads predecessors of some of today's alliances to battle for control of the galaxies. Nadir of post-Progenitor dark ages. 2.1 - 1.9 BYA: Power struggles largely resolved. This is a crucial formative age for much of O-2 Galactic civilization as we now know it. The Library records from this time forward are notably more complete than for earlier epochs. 1.9 BYA: Institute for Civilized Warfare formed. 1.6 BYA: Contact lost with three galaxies. Eight galaxies remain. The disaster results in cultural upheavals and sparks the first wave of memnetic plagues. 1.4 BYA: The Library is reorganized into its modern form. The Uplift Institute is founded. 1.1 BYA: Seven galaxies. Memnetic plagues lead to lawless warfare and spread of Ash. 830 MYA: Temporary loss of contact with Galaxy 5. Earth's seas begin to explode with multicellular life. 620 MYA: The ecologically insensitive Lions dominate the Galaxies. Ash spreads through 30% of Galaxy One and 20% of
Re: Uplift Timeline (was Tg Territories)
In a message dated 1/20/2004 8:04:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lost track of which galaxy is which number here. Just in case... 141 MYA: [Contacting Aliens entry ignored.] I don't have a copy handy. I don't remember which entry this is. But I do know that as presented in Contacting Aliens, Earth's entire age of dinosaurs occured outside of the current Galactic Civilization. I think it was at that time the lost Galaxy Seven which was renamed as Galaxy Two when reconnected. Having the dinosaurs outside of Galactic Civilization is canonical to whatever Brin is going to eventually write. (We just don't know why yet.) William Taylor - A: Why are you pouring plaster into the gravesite of the author you liked so much? B: One last time--I wanted to see the plot thicken. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline (was Tg Territories)
On Tuesday 2004-01-20 20:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/20/2004 8:04:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lost track of which galaxy is which number here. I didn't so much loose track of each Galaxy as give up on tracking them. I just tried to keep a running count of how many were in contact with the core. Just in case... 141 MYA: [Contacting Aliens entry ignored.] I don't have a copy handy. I don't remember which entry this is. 141 MYA all major sapient races form a union, slowly regaining confidence [after Second Gronin Collapse]. But I do know that as presented in Contacting Aliens, Earth's entire age of dinosaurs occured outside of the current Galactic Civilization. What do you mean by outside? I think it was at that time the lost Galaxy Seven which was renamed as Galaxy Two when reconnected. Having the dinosaurs outside of Galactic Civilization is canonical to whatever Brin is going to eventually write. (We just don't know why yet.) Embarrass the Soro? Maybe they have traces of Earth DNA. William Taylor - A: Why are you pouring plaster into the gravesite of the author you liked so much? B: One last time--I wanted to see the plot thicken. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline (was Tg Territories)
In a message dated 1/20/2004 9:31:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But I do know that as presented in Contacting Aliens, Earth's entire age of dinosaurs occured outside of the current Galactic Civilization. What do you mean by outside? The galactics never visited Earth while there were dinosaurs as the galaxy was lost until past their die-off. (If indeed that was what happened.) Galaxy Seven was lost. Galaxy Seven was refound. Galaxy Seven was renamed Galaxy Two. Earth is in Galaxy Two. It's all there in Contacting Aliens. Just not in one single declarative sentence: Galactic Civilization doesn't know what happened on Earth (if anything did happen) for the entire age of the dinosaurs. It's right there, in plain sight, for everyone to never see it. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Uplift Timeline (was Tg Territories)
From: Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12 MYA: The last recorded wolfling race, the Paranaj, is discovered. Within 1000 years it is extinct. 52 KYA: The last recorded wolfling race, the Paranaj, is discovered. Within a thousand years, it is extinct. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
