Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Hi Tom, Sure. The first paragraph describes the current situation regarding the use of a controversial single word. The second paragraph steps back and looks at the bigger picture within our community. My speculation that the animus and hard feelings that this word has elicited among

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?contra lab.

Rich, I'm not clear why Woody's question is directed to me. And I see he's indicating that's this long involved conversation about terminology is related to creating a callerlab for contra. I'm not clear on his thinking so I suppose I'll have to hear from him before honestly responding This

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

As a member of Callerlab for 25 years, I can answer Woody's question with a definitive "NO". Callerlab does offer many benefits, but it has its drawbacks as well. Standardization was supposed to be a good thing, and perhaps in the MWSD world that is more good than bad, but it also diminishes the

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Woody, I really don't understand your question. Please connect the dots. Sent from my iPad > On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:20 AM, Woody Lane via Callers > wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Earlier this year in Eugene, a caller was struggling with trying to be extra > careful

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Hi Tom, Earlier this year in Eugene, a caller was struggling with trying to be extra careful with alternative terms for gypsy. She referred to the "g-word" and then tried using other terms. She was actually trying to demonstrate something else on the floor. The crowd said in a friendly way

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

nces are thriving amidst a decline of attendance of > contra in general. > > > > Donna Hunt > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Jeffrey Spero <j...@syncopaths.com> > Cc: callers@lists.sh

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

attendance of contra in general. Donna Hunt -Original Message- From: Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> To: Jeffrey Spero <j...@syncopaths.com> Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net <Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Wed, Mar 28, 2018 12:47

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Of > Louise Siddons via Callers > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 10:49 AM > To: call...@sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct? > > I have a friend who danced for the pure joy of it until he got sick of > being asked why a black man wanted to contra dance. I danc

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Tom, Ron's point wasn't that changing terminology in some dances has been beneficial; his point was simply that the terminology has indeed changed in some dances, and he gave exactly the right amount of data necessary to support that point. If you want to go do your own study on whether it has

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Yes in DC I have noticed one or two cross gendered people attending and some, not many gay folks too. Perhaps these populations are finding contra for the first time or finding out that it's a safe place to have fun. I used to remodel houses in the DC area with a cross gendered person. There

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

In NYC there are more dances now then there ever have been in the past. They are all pretty progressive in Dance roles. Two are gender free and one is not but has a significant majority of dancers that dance both roles and lots who dance with everyone. Attendance fluctuates so it’s hard to

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Ron, I keep on reading your writing and see that you often give only partial information. What you write below is interesting: > In New England, New York, Seattle, and the Bay Area, many callers have been > examining terminology and changing. Several dance series have gone genderfree >

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

al Message- From: Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net> On Behalf Of Louise Siddons via Callers Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 10:49 AM To: call...@sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct? I have a friend who danced for the pure joy of it until he got sick

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Hi Jeff, I think your understanding of there being "no to little movement" is inaccurate. In New England, New York, Seattle, and the Bay Area, many callers have been examining terminology and changing. Several dance series have gone genderfree without being specifically chartered as LGBTQ

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

> On Mar 28, 2018, at 8:56 AM, Maia McCormick wrote: > > While Jeffrey makes a compelling point, I want to chime in with another > thought: that not having these discussions is just as divisive (if not more > so) than having them, just in ways that are harder for some

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

(Ah, to clarify, by "offered a dance to split them from their partner" I'm talking about the phenomenon that Louise mentioned, where a queer couple (or heck, even same-gender friends!) are offered dances by people to slot them into opposite-gender couples.) On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:56 AM, Maia

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

While Jeffrey makes a compelling point, I want to chime in with another thought: *that not having these discussions is just as divisive (if not more so) than having them*, just in ways that are harder for some sides of the community to see. While people make (very valid) claims that long

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I have a friend who danced for the pure joy of it until he got sick of being asked why a black man wanted to contra dance. I dance with more, purer joy now that fewer men “offer” to split me up from my girlfriend when we join a line together. I’d love everyone to dance for the pure joy of it,

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

He’s right… and she’s right. How can they both be right? Well… they ARE both right. There is no clear cut answer on this. People who feel strongly on one side or the other may like to think there is a clear cut answer, but if one thing seems clear to me by the amount of back and forth on

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I agree wholeheartedly with Jen, and appreciate her thoughtful response. Donald makes the excellent point that history is the source of an ongoing challenge (it’s not the present, and the values of any one historical moment are not the same as those of another) for which language usefully

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

While it's true that language is often not the problem, it's less relevant to the discussion of what words to use as a caller than you might think. Scenario A: If we have to keep finding new ways to describe square dancing because it's viewed as an activity only danced by weird old white people,

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

When history shows a number of new terms introduced over the years, and each, after a while, picks up the taint of being derogatory, you eventually figure out that the word itself isn't the real problem. Using the tainted water analogy, if the person serving your water has typhoid, asking for a

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Hello folks I'd just like to second what Ron said. We keep hearing about how organisers would like to "get Young People in", but then express disdain for the things we care about, such as avoiding offensive language. The idea that we should be allowed to say whatever we want when calling as

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

"Living Tradition" Preserving tradition and being appropriate to our day and age are not mutually exclusive. I actually love rich traditions that we keep alive. We talk about "living" traditions, so what do we mean by this phrase? For something to be alive, it changes. It adapts. What it

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I want to echo the words of Alex D-L and Dave Casserly. I'm also appalled at the casual use of the n-word on this thread without anyone whatsoever calling it out. This is really giving me pause. :( Contra's attendance is dwindling - I hear it from every organizer I talk to, with a couple

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

An important thing to remember is that sometimes *you just can't please everyone* no matter what you do. That applies not only to issues that some would characterize as being about "political correctness" (singing call lyrics; the "g-word"; gendered vs. gender-free names for dance roles), but to

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct

I am an example of someone who gradually left a dance community partly because of what I saw as offensive lyrics in singing calls….. When my wife and I were dancing modern western squares in the late 1980s, in Ohio, many callers were using contemporary pop and country songs for their singing

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I learned it as a child as "She's a young girl." That would at least get rid of the people are things issue. On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 10:12 PM Rich Sbardella via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hello folks, > > I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

se "boys and girls" and no one cares and almost everyone switches...such a delight! Donna Hunt -Original Message- From: Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> To: Bob Hofkin <bhof...@middlej.com> Cc: Caller's discussion list <call...@shar

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

st <call...@sharedweight.net> Sent: Sun, Mar 25, 2018 11:15 am Subject: Re: [Callers] Politically Correct? Yes Bob, You are correct, but the tag line for each verse remains the same. I would have to find a word to replace -young "thing". I think perhaps it is a generationa

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Well said Colin. On Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 6:20 AM Colin Hume via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I'm going to be controversial, so please think hard about what I'm saying > - and why you're reacting to it the way you > are - before replying. > > I think "Political correctness" is

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I'm going to be controversial, so please think hard about what I'm saying - and why you're reacting to it the way you are - before replying. I think "Political correctness" is mainly an American problem, though it seems to be spreading to England too. The word "nigger" was not originally a

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Historically, a lot has changed. Take the traditional singing square "Marching Through Georgia." Does anyone really think the original song is about ambling with friends along a quiet country road near Atlanta? I have a thin 1989 book "Just One More Dance" by Carole Howard. It lists scores of

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I feel that the old dances, like old movies, shouldn’t be left in the dust because they are offensive in our modern context. Rather we can take them in their context, as a relic of an older day. I happen to LOVE the song Billy Boy, it was on a movie I saw as a child and was one of the few

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I visited, more than once, an assisted living home, here in CT, to talk to a prominent caller of "back in the day".He told of dancing as a teen.  So many young folks did then.  The call was "swing her in the center and kiss her if you dare".He stammered and turned red as she poked fun at his

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Often people don’t speak up. It doesn’t mean they like the language. There aren’t very many dances that actively solicit feedback and even the ones that do don’t get it all the time. There are often callers or phrases that bother me. I very occasionally tell the callers if they are friends of

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I have to agree with Tom. The only push back I have ever received was from two female callers I helped get started. This was in the early 90s. I have otherwise never had a complaint about calling singing square dances as they have been traditionally called/sung. That said, I try to know my

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

It looks like this is the version Rich is referring to: http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=1891 More background on the English folk song / sea shanty this American folk song is based on: https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/billyboy.html In traditional songs things

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

If you are concerned about sexism alternate between she/her and he/his.  On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:39 AM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd. > Try your hand at some new lyrics! > > Sent

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Rich, I agree with Tom. This is one of the most traditional tunes I grew up with. Isn't one of CDSS' objectives to promote and continue TRADITIONAL song... I say leave it alone. Mary On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:12 AM Rich Sbardella via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hello

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Yes Bob, You are correct, but the tag line for each verse remains the same. I would have to find a word to replace -young "thing". I think perhaps it is a generational thing. I have been calling this song to my seniors who are about 75% women in their 70's and 80s and they sing along. No

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

If I recall the folk song, it's more satirical--she can bake a cherry pie and stuff, and turns out to be older than Billy lets on. See if you can't find lines in one of the versions that shift the focus. Bob On 3/25/2018 02:07, Don Veino via Callers wrote: I've started doing singing

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

In the land of freedom and rugged individualism I find that my choices in many realms of my life are being eaten away. Go for it! Call what you want and don't worry about what others are going to say. For me the PC stuff has gone over board. Calling is difficult enough without having to be

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

I've started doing singing squares over the past year and have been making adjustments to lyrics for each one I do. So far the changes have been relatively easy - mostly eliminating explicit gender and talking to everyone whenever possible vs. a "talk to the (assumed) lead" focus. There are real

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

Thus did Ophelia's suicide become merely an accidental drowning, thanks to Thomas Bowdler, who criticized Shakespeare for exposing his readers to "the danger of being hurt with any indelicacy of expression." On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:39 AM, Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers

Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd. Try your hand at some new lyrics! Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers > wrote: > > Hello folks, > > I have been calling singing squares for years,

[Callers] Politically Correct?

Hello folks, I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother." Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.