Re: Writing emulators [Was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

On Feb 21, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
> That is tricky to cleanly and efficiently implement where each component is 
> modeled independently and
> glued together with a higher-level framework.

This is why I wonder if multithreaded emulation might be a reasonable future 
approach: Model more components of a system as operating independently as they 
produce and react to signals, have them block when not reacting (either to a 
clock pulse or a signal), and let the operating system manage scheduling.

  -- Chris

Re: Writing emulators (was Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!)

[Peter Coghlan via cctalk]

Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote:
>
>> On Feb 21, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 11:24 AM
>> 
 On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:59 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk 
 
 wrote:
>> 
 Typically you'd emulate the I/O device functionality, regardless of whether
 that is implemented in gates or in co-processor firmware.  That's the
 approach taken with the MSCP I/O device emulation in SIMH, or the disk
 controller emulation in the CDC 6000 emulator DtCyber.
>> 
>>> It’s also what’s done in Hercules (S/370, 370/XA, 390, Z simulator) and the
>>> mainframe I/O is complex to say the least.
>> 
>> Also the method used by the KLH10 emulator (KS-10, KS-10/ITS microcode, 
>> KL-10).
>> There, each device type runs in a separate fork, using System V style memory
>> mapping.  This of course means that it only runs under certain Unix variants.
>
> I haven’t looked at KLH10 in a long time, but Hercules runs on a lot of 
> different platforms
> including Windows (and I would not call that a Unix variant by any stretch of 
> the imagination).
>

Hercules uses posix threads, not forks, however, each device does not 
necessarily
get it's own thread.  It's pretty portable stuff though.  With very few tweaks,
I run it on VMS.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

>
> TTFN - Guy
> 

Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

Hi folks,

I recently discovered a complete Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay. It 
is a charity auction, ending tomorrow.


I am the high bidder (hachti, 600-some points) and BEG YOU ALL NOT TO 
BID on it!

I already entered a crazy high bid anyway bid so please don't bid on it.

I am one of the very very very few people who have an actual DDP-516 
machine and can really use this as a spare for a real machine.


Again, PLEASE refrain from bidding up this item!

If you are the owner of a "headless" machine who is in need for the 
front panel: please contact me, so we can avoid an explosion on Ebay.


Thank you very much.

Kind regards

Philipp

What are these memory modules?

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

Can anyone tell me which system these belongs to?

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28058349_10155950589854985_8635795214284744688_n.jpg?oh=c0be0a30ee09cd98cb69ed728375520b&oe=5B02220D

/Mattis

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

/Here is my list. 6x RD54 (Maxtor XT2190) >2x OK, 2x Media Error, 1x 
Actuator Issue, 1x Head issue 3x RD53 (Micropolis 1325) >2x Actuator 
issue, 1x actuator issue followed by spinning issue (speed sensor?) 4x 
Seagate ST251 >4x OK 3x Seagete ST225 >3x OK 3x IBM Type 068 >3x Dead On 
the 3.5" side I have also many dead drives (<1GB capacity). Mostly 
sticky actuators and dead tantalum caps, but by now nothing I was not 
able to repair. Many Greetings Ulrich /


A tangential question out of curiosity: 
who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, 
and which model(s)?

...

- John

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

I have a Quantum Q540 (36mb; labeled RD-52) that works 
perfectly. I love the sound of the spin-up on those drives. 





Get Outlook for iOS





On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:17 AM -0500, "Ulrich Tagge via cctalk" 
 wrote:










/Here is my list. 6x RD54 (Maxtor XT2190) >2x OK, 2x Media Error, 1x 
Actuator Issue, 1x Head issue 3x RD53 (Micropolis 1325) >2x Actuator 
issue, 1x actuator issue followed by spinning issue (speed sensor?) 4x 
Seagate ST251 >4x OK 3x Seagete ST225 >3x OK 3x IBM Type 068 >3x Dead On 
the 3.5" side I have also many dead drives (<1GB capacity). Mostly 
sticky actuators and dead tantalum caps, but by now nothing I was not 
able to repair. Many Greetings Ulrich /
>>
>>A tangential question out of curiosity: 
>>who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
>>extremely surprised are still working, 
>>and which model(s)?
>>...
>>
>>- John

Re: Why don't you respect the mail threads?!

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 21 February 2018 at 23:50, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> After going through I've-forgotten-how-many editors (starting with TECO, then
> 'ed'), text formatting systems, operating systems, email readers, etc, etc I
> have a _very_ simple rule about switching software: is the old stuff I'm using
> utterly, irretrievably unusable? If not, ignore the new stuff. Eventually
> it'll be obsolete too. And in the meantime, I'll have saved countless cycles
> by not going through the hassle of switching to it. Life's too short.

Interesting.

I have had a comparable journey, starting in the early 1980s on home
micros. I have learned so many different editors, with all their
strengths and weaknesses, I can't remember how many to the nearest
dozen.

But at the end of the 1980s/start of the 1990s, something  changed.

CUA came along. IBM's answer to Apple's MacOS HIG.

A set of rules for how apps should look.

Quickly, lots complied. DR-DOS 5 came with a slightly clunky but CUA
full-screen text-editor.

MS-DOS 5 followed. From the horrors of edlin, we got the DOS 5 editor,
basically QBASIC in a special mode. But QBASIC was the QuickBASIC 4
IDE with an interpreter bolted in place of the compiler, and it was a
decent IDE and a decent editor.

DR-DOS 6 upped its game a bit.

Windows Notepad is basically the same and compatible. So were the
later classic MacOS editors. So are the editors in KDE, GNOME 2, Maté,
LXDE, Xfce, whatever. So are all the Mac OS X ones.

There's one look and feel for a text editor now. Menu bar at the top,
starting File, Edit, blah. Save is Ctrl+S. Open is Ctrl-O.
Cut/copy/paste -- well there the CUA ones gave in to Mac ones: Ctrl-X,
C, V.

I won't use any editor or editing app that doesn't follow that
pattern. I've happily, joyfully, with a song in my heart, forgotten
all the others.

I don't care _how_ powerful anyone's editor is. Scripting, macros,
add-ons, modules, whatever. Not interested. Strictly CUA or GTFO.

It has made life much simpler.

And in the great Vi-versus-Emacs war, it leaves both sides staring
blankly at me with nothing to offer.

Both weakly point out that their X version does most of that, but
neither does it on the console, so I'm not interested.

It rules out most of the console/shell level Unix/Linux/*nix world and
that's fine with me. Saves me a ton of decision-making.

Your app. Don't care what it does. Is it CUA compliant? No? OK, thank
you for your time, goodbye. *Ting* Next please.




-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I have been watching this too, yes.  Fortunately I already have a
practically identical console (link below).   All I have so far is the
console and a core module.   I am looking for the rest of the computer if
anyone has one...

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=655

Bill

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:58 AM, Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I recently discovered a complete Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay. It is
> a charity auction, ending tomorrow.
>
> I am the high bidder (hachti, 600-some points) and BEG YOU ALL NOT TO BID
> on it!
> I already entered a crazy high bid anyway bid so please don't bid on it.
>
> I am one of the very very very few people who have an actual DDP-516
> machine and can really use this as a spare for a real machine.
>
> Again, PLEASE refrain from bidding up this item!
>
> If you are the owner of a "headless" machine who is in need for the front
> panel: please contact me, so we can avoid an explosion on Ebay.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Philipp
>

Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 22.02.2018 16:18, Bill Degnan wrote:

 All I have so far is the
console and a core module.   I am looking for the rest of the computer 
if anyone has one...

Ah, good to know that there is a spare core stack around :-P


http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=655

I remember - having already commented on it...

The front panel is quite dump. Everything is handled in the CPU and the PSU.

BTW you know that the schematics of the DDP-516 can be found on bitsavers?

Kind regards

Philipp

Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> On 22.02.2018 16:18, Bill Degnan wrote:
>
>>  All I have so far is the
>> console and a core module.   I am looking for the rest of the computer if
>> anyone has one...
>>
> Ah, good to know that there is a spare core stack around :-P
>
> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=655
>>
> I remember - having already commented on it...
>
> The front panel is quite dump. Everything is handled in the CPU and the
> PSU.
>
> BTW you know that the schematics of the DDP-516 can be found on bitsavers?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Philipp
>
>
Yes, just commenting to the group..for now I can simH Honeywell.  I would
love to get the front panel running with a simH, using the schematics to
determine what lights should flash..
Bill

Re: Writing emulators [Was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 12:09 AM, Chris Hanson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Feb 21, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
> wrote:
>> 
>> That is tricky to cleanly and efficiently implement where each component is 
>> modeled independently and
>> glued together with a higher-level framework.
> 
> This is why I wonder if multithreaded emulation might be a reasonable future 
> approach: Model more components of a system as operating independently as 
> they produce and react to signals, have them block when not reacting (either 
> to a clock pulse or a signal), and let the operating system manage scheduling.

This is what some emulators already do: KLH10 (although it does it at the 
process level with SYS V shared memory) and Hercules.  So there are already 
existence proofs (and those are just two that are publicly available…many 
others are not publicly available…e.g. under a paid license).

TTFN - Guy

Re: Writing emulators [Was: Re: VCF PNW 2018: Pictures!]

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 3:09 AM, Chris Hanson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Feb 21, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
> wrote:
>> 
>> That is tricky to cleanly and efficiently implement where each component is 
>> modeled independently and
>> glued together with a higher-level framework.
> 
> This is why I wonder if multithreaded emulation might be a reasonable future 
> approach: Model more components of a system as operating independently as 
> they produce and react to signals, have them block when not reacting (either 
> to a clock pulse or a signal), and let the operating system manage scheduling.

It depends on the machine being emulated.  In some cases, multiple components 
that seem to be independent actually have tightly coupled timing, and software 
relies on that.

For example, a CDC 6000 series mainframe has 10 or 20 PPUs plus one or two 
CPUs.  With a bit of care, you can model the two CPUs using two threads.  But 
all the PPUs have to be done in one thread because they run in lockstep.  If 
you make them each a thread, the OS won't boot.  I tried it and gave up.  It 
would have been nice, it might have opened a path to a power-efficient 
emulation, but it didn't appear doable.

Processors vs. I/O devices might work, but again the devil is in the details.

paul

Will be up for sale in this calendar year 360 Front Panel

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

I thought I would post a heads for

https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1

I have the IBM 360 aluminum plate that goes on top, it is scratched. More
detailed and better pictures as I dig deeper.

For shipping a I will have professional box built by a friend who's hobby
is building
and restoring furniture.

Price to be determined and will go into my estate.

If interested please email me directly

pete at petelancashire dot com

Regards

-pete

Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

some panel  hoader could drive this thru the roof  I ran into someine this 
year with no interest really in the computers but like the panels for art  
with deep pockets. which makes them even scarier.ed#  www.smecc.org

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, February 22, 2018 Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk 
 wrote:

On 22.02.2018 16:18, Bill Degnan wrote:
> All I have so far is the
> console and a core module.   I am looking for the rest of the computer 
> if anyone has one...
Ah, good to know that there is a spare core stack around :-P

> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=655
I remember - having already commented on it...

The front panel is quite dump. Everything is handled in the CPU and the PSU.

BTW you know that the schematics of the DDP-516 can be found on bitsavers?

Kind regards

Philipp

Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

> On Thursday, February 22, 2018 Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On 22.02.2018 16:18, Bill Degnan wrote:
> > All I have so far is the
> > console and a core module.   I am looking for the rest of the computer
> > if anyone has one...
> Ah, good to know that there is a spare core stack around :-P
>
> > http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=655
> I remember - having already commented on it...
>
> The front panel is quite dump. Everything is handled in the CPU and the
> PSU.
>
> BTW you know that the schematics of the DDP-516 can be found on bitsavers?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Philipp
>
>
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:

> some panel  hoader could drive this thru the roof  I ran into someine
> this year with no interest really in the computers but like the panels for
> art  with deep pockets. which makes them even scarier.ed#
> www.smecc.org
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail



I can accept someone keeping the front panel and dumping the computer more
so than when on strips a  keyboard from the terminal.  Two reasons - One
because with the front panel one can build something underneath to replace
the original computer.  Second - The computer may simply be too big to keep
around

But I am sure there is a Fridays restaurant somewhere in the USA with a
UNIVAC front panel or something sad like that on the wall.

Bill

WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

I'm about to acquire a couple of 1980s-vintage military surplus AN/UGC-137A 
terminals (i.e., glass TTYs with some local message preparation and storage 
capabilities) which have a bubble memory subsystem. They use plug-in cartridges 
containing 256 kbytes of storage in the form of two Intel 7110 1 Mbit bubble 
memory chips and their 7242 formatter/sense amplifiers.

One of the cartridges contains the one and only copy of the terminals' 
firmware, which I believe they need to load up at each reboot. Naturally, 
extracting the contents of that irreplaceable cartridge for archival, and 
potential future emulation, is going to be a very high priority for me. I have 
a few different approaches in mind for accomplishing that. One approach would 
be to remove the two memory devices from the critical cartridge in order to 
dump their contents in an independent bubble memory subsystem.

With that in mind, I'd like to get my hands on a working Intel 7110 bubble 
memory subsystem, or the parts to build one myself (i.e., a complete 
7110/7220/7230/7242/7250/7254 chipset that I could make a board around).

Might anybody here have what I need available for sale or trade? I might be 
able to use some arbitrary old computer or other device that has a subsystem 
based around the Intel 7110, or a development kit such as the Intel BPK-72, or 
a chipset to make my own board.

If I can't acquire or make the hardware to dump the memory chips outside of 
their native system, then I think my next option would be to passively snoop 
the host bus interface of the Intel 7220 controller I expect to find inside the 
terminals as they perform their initial firmware load, so that I can 
reconstruct the cartridge contents from the trace data.

The terminals were made by the Librascope division of Singer, and brochures can 
be found here:

http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Communications%20Terminal.pdf

http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/SST.pdf

http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Bubble%20Memory%20Cartridge.pdf

I already have the critical cartridge in hand, and I posted some pictures of it 
on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/964578291767173120




-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Why don't you respect the mail threads?!

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 05:50:56PM -0500, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> > From: Grant Taylor
> 
> > I'm on a list where it seems as if a frequent contributer uses an MUA
> > that does not send In-Reply-To or References headers at all. It doesn't
> > even send a User-Agent header. *sigh*
> 
> That's me, I expect.
> 
> I used to use a TOPS-20 email reader called MM, and when I moved my
[...]
> 
> I do have access to a more modern email reader (Eudora), but don't
[...]
> 
> After going through I've-forgotten-how-many editors (starting with
> TECO, then 'ed'), text formatting systems, operating systems, email
> readers, etc, etc I have a _very_ simple rule about switching
> software: is the old stuff I'm using utterly, irretrievably
> unusable? If not, ignore the new stuff. Eventually it'll be obsolete
> too. And in the meantime, I'll have saved countless cycles by not
> going through the hassle of switching to it. Life's too short.

Noel, I respect your attitude, even replicate it a bit, but
nevertheless I shyly suggest that you try mutt for email (especially
if you process your emails via terminal). It is quite versatile (as
far as I can tell, and I am of course quite subjective) and works on
variety of terminals - I have configured it to work in 256 colors
(because I fancy colors) but it also works on vt100 (i.e. in
monochrome, or rather, it works on terminal emulator with TERM=vt100,
and some keys work differently in this mode then in 256-color
mode). There are some key shortcuts that have to be learned, but not
so many. Configuration is done by editing a file, which means I can
put in snippets from the web to try. If you have your preferred editor
and it works on term, then it probably can be used by mutt (emacs
works for me).

Before that, I have been using pine (nowadays named alpine), which had
configuration edited via builtin options editor and before that, elm,
never configured by me (AFAIR - about 20yago). So, with this
perspective, I can say mutt is not bad and I intend sticking to it for
a while.

Last but not least, it looks like mutt adheres to the standards and at
least does the right thing with headers.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

Doing a paper napkin design, should be pretty easy to build a bubble
emulator in the same size

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I'm about to acquire a couple of 1980s-vintage military surplus
> AN/UGC-137A terminals (i.e., glass TTYs with some local message preparation
> and storage capabilities) which have a bubble memory subsystem. They use
> plug-in cartridges containing 256 kbytes of storage in the form of two
> Intel 7110 1 Mbit bubble memory chips and their 7242 formatter/sense
> amplifiers.
>
> One of the cartridges contains the one and only copy of the terminals'
> firmware, which I believe they need to load up at each reboot. Naturally,
> extracting the contents of that irreplaceable cartridge for archival, and
> potential future emulation, is going to be a very high priority for me. I
> have a few different approaches in mind for accomplishing that. One
> approach would be to remove the two memory devices from the critical
> cartridge in order to dump their contents in an independent bubble memory
> subsystem.
>
> With that in mind, I'd like to get my hands on a working Intel 7110 bubble
> memory subsystem, or the parts to build one myself (i.e., a complete
> 7110/7220/7230/7242/7250/7254 chipset that I could make a board around).
>
> Might anybody here have what I need available for sale or trade? I might
> be able to use some arbitrary old computer or other device that has a
> subsystem based around the Intel 7110, or a development kit such as the
> Intel BPK-72, or a chipset to make my own board.
>
> If I can't acquire or make the hardware to dump the memory chips outside
> of their native system, then I think my next option would be to passively
> snoop the host bus interface of the Intel 7220 controller I expect to find
> inside the terminals as they perform their initial firmware load, so that I
> can reconstruct the cartridge contents from the trace data.
>
> The terminals were made by the Librascope division of Singer, and
> brochures can be found here:
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/Communications%20Terminal.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/SST.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/Bubble%20Memory%20Cartridge.pdf
>
> I already have the critical cartridge in hand, and I posted some pictures
> of it on Twitter:
>
> https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/964578291767173120
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
>
>
>

Alpine vs mutt?

[geneb via cctalk]

Before that, I have been using pine (nowadays named alpine), which had
configuration edited via builtin options editor and before that, elm,
never configured by me (AFAIR - about 20yago). So, with this
perspective, I can say mutt is not bad and I intend sticking to it for
a while.


What about mutt do you prefer over alpine?

g.



--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Why don't you respect the mail threads?!

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 03:35:14PM +0100, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> 
> I don't care _how_ powerful anyone's editor is. Scripting, macros,
> add-ons, modules, whatever. Not interested. Strictly CUA or GTFO.

Liam, I wanted to say this few months ago already (back in Nov, the
"Editor" thread - BTW, thanks for the links to editors wiki and other
interesting pointers). So, what I wanted to say is, this posture is
going to backfire, I am afraid. The new crowd is coming, who newer had
any chance to use anything resembling a terminal (including
terminal-like experience as wobbly as given by MS Windows). They
(crowd) too will be saying things like GTFO - for now, they just top
post awfully long replies (perhaps because their phone/web-based MUAs
cannot offer them easy way to cut the crap?) and refuse to see any
wrong in it. They also happen to break threads like they were paid to
do it and since I am subscribed to way too many lists where this
occurs, I have already gave up manual linking of threads with mutt -
righting wrongs of the crowd is a job for a program, not for single
human. I only have to devise it during free time, when I have some.

Given that they are soon (if not already) going to be a "dictatoring"
majority, I am not so sure the "GTFO" is the right kind of message to
send out. Even though I have no idea what a constructive message could
look like.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Pete Lancashire  wrote:
> 
> Doing a paper napkin design, should be pretty easy to build a bubble emulator 
> in the same size

Yes, and I plan to do just that (assuming I ever actually get around to it)! 
But the first priority will be archiving the firmware that's on that cartridge 
(or not... it would really stink if the bits have already evaporated!).


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[dwight via cctalk]

Do not remove the chip from the bias magnets. All will be lost if you do.

The Nicolet 3091 used a bubble memory but I don't know it it was the Intel or 
other manufacture.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Pete Lancashire via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:29:47 PM
To: Mark J. Blair; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

Doing a paper napkin design, should be pretty easy to build a bubble
emulator in the same size

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I'm about to acquire a couple of 1980s-vintage military surplus
> AN/UGC-137A terminals (i.e., glass TTYs with some local message preparation
> and storage capabilities) which have a bubble memory subsystem. They use
> plug-in cartridges containing 256 kbytes of storage in the form of two
> Intel 7110 1 Mbit bubble memory chips and their 7242 formatter/sense
> amplifiers.
>
> One of the cartridges contains the one and only copy of the terminals'
> firmware, which I believe they need to load up at each reboot. Naturally,
> extracting the contents of that irreplaceable cartridge for archival, and
> potential future emulation, is going to be a very high priority for me. I
> have a few different approaches in mind for accomplishing that. One
> approach would be to remove the two memory devices from the critical
> cartridge in order to dump their contents in an independent bubble memory
> subsystem.
>
> With that in mind, I'd like to get my hands on a working Intel 7110 bubble
> memory subsystem, or the parts to build one myself (i.e., a complete
> 7110/7220/7230/7242/7250/7254 chipset that I could make a board around).
>
> Might anybody here have what I need available for sale or trade? I might
> be able to use some arbitrary old computer or other device that has a
> subsystem based around the Intel 7110, or a development kit such as the
> Intel BPK-72, or a chipset to make my own board.
>
> If I can't acquire or make the hardware to dump the memory chips outside
> of their native system, then I think my next option would be to passively
> snoop the host bus interface of the Intel 7220 controller I expect to find
> inside the terminals as they perform their initial firmware load, so that I
> can reconstruct the cartridge contents from the trace data.
>
> The terminals were made by the Librascope division of Singer, and
> brochures can be found here:
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/Communications%20Terminal.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/SST.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/Bubble%20Memory%20Cartridge.pdf
>
> I already have the critical cartridge in hand, and I posted some pictures
> of it on Twitter:
>
> https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/964578291767173120
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
>
>
>

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 1:23 PM, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Do not remove the chip from the bias magnets. All will be lost if you do.

Is my understanding correct that removing the entire 7110 module as a unit 
(whether socketed or soldered in) should be somewhat safe, but any attempt to 
disassemble the module would likely disturb the bias field and destroy the data?


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

[dwight via cctalk]

A library near me has art work facade about 20 feet tall with the castings of 
old radios, tv's and computers. Some of these I'd have liked to have had. I 
doubt any were saved after making the original casting.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Bill Degnan via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 11:51:35 AM
To: Ed Sharpe; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Honeywell DDP-516 console on Ebay - PLEASE don't bid!

> On Thursday, February 22, 2018 Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On 22.02.2018 16:18, Bill Degnan wrote:
> > All I have so far is the
> > console and a core module.   I am looking for the rest of the computer
> > if anyone has one...
> Ah, good to know that there is a spare core stack around :-P
>
> > http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=655
> I remember - having already commented on it...
>
> The front panel is quite dump. Everything is handled in the CPU and the
> PSU.
>
> BTW you know that the schematics of the DDP-516 can be found on bitsavers?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Philipp
>
>
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:

> some panel  hoader could drive this thru the roof  I ran into someine
> this year with no interest really in the computers but like the panels for
> art  with deep pockets. which makes them even scarier.ed#
> www.smecc.org
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail



I can accept someone keeping the front panel and dumping the computer more
so than when on strips a  keyboard from the terminal.  Two reasons - One
because with the front panel one can build something underneath to replace
the original computer.  Second - The computer may simply be too big to keep
around

But I am sure there is a Fridays restaurant somewhere in the USA with a
UNIVAC front panel or something sad like that on the wall.

Bill

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[dwight via cctalk]

The bias field keeps the domains from becoming random. It is interesting that I 
was reading about making newer versions of bubble like memory with thin films. 
They are expecting something like 10 times the data density that current 
spinning media can have and faster access with no moving parts.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Mark J. Blair via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 1:28:52 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset


> On Feb 22, 2018, at 1:23 PM, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
>
> Do not remove the chip from the bias magnets. All will be lost if you do.

Is my understanding correct that removing the entire 7110 module as a unit 
(whether socketed or soldered in) should be somewhat safe, but any attempt to 
disassemble the module would likely disturb the bias field and destroy the data?


--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Alpine vs mutt?

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:38:56PM -0800, geneb via cctalk wrote:
> >Before that, I have been using pine (nowadays named alpine), which had
> >configuration edited via builtin options editor and before that, elm,
> >never configured by me (AFAIR - about 20yago). So, with this
> >perspective, I can say mutt is not bad and I intend sticking to it for
> >a while.
> 
> What about mutt do you prefer over alpine?

Maybe I cannot give one strong argument for mutt over alpine, but:

 - I used pine on a "Unix shell" account attached to my address, then
   after upgrade I decided to try mutt; alpine is installed but
   somehow I never again ran it here

 - I still have alpine installed at home "Unix shell account" and use
   it for minor mail processing, but for longer reading of my huge
   mailboxes mutt feels a bit nicer to me, so I use it 

 - in mutt, I can press "l" in "mailbox view"/"index view" and limit
   displayed items only to those matching given expression; so for
   example, if I want to see only mails with "[name of certain group
   in subject]", I can do this - I have first learned about such thing
   after switching to mutt, so I have no idea if alpine can do such
   trick, too; when I am done I switch back with "l all"

 - in mutt, I can send a mail through a preconfigured script in Python
   (some kind of preprocessor written by me), which is bound to
   certain key; I had no idea how to achieve this in alpine; I
   understand I can have more such programs bound to more keys in
   mutt, never tried in alpine

 - for a while, I used to repair broken threads in my inbox using
   mutt's "link thread"; no idea about similar thing in alpine

 - I have found out that I really like the 256-color mode; it took me
   a bit of trying, and maybe not all colors are nice enough for my
   eyes, so I will have to redo some configuration later, but I find
   it easier to plow through few hundred mails a day when they are
   colored (also, some are colored differently based on certain
   properties, like "sent from family member" or "from a buddy" - I
   have set it in muttrc, for each member of the group by name or
   other factor); perhaps I could color mails based on mailing list,
   but I have to try it yet - not sure if it would do me any good,
   however.

Please note, I do not claim that alpine cannot do those things. I have
been using mutt while each of the needs arose and have been satisfied
by finding relevant mutt-based solution. I never looked for
alpine-based solution, so my preference for mutt might come from
ignorance. But I am now dug deeply in this hole.

What I dislike about mutt:

 - No built-in scripting language, for more advanced mail
   processing. But it is not really hard to go around this
   limitation, so dislike is not very strong.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

Re: Alpine vs mutt?

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:40 PM, Tomasz Rola via cctalk
 wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:38:56PM -0800, geneb via cctalk wrote:
>> >Before that, I have been using pine (nowadays named alpine), which had
>> >configuration edited via builtin options editor and before that, elm,
>>
>> What about mutt do you prefer over alpine?

I started using mutt about 15 years ago when I was asked for "disc 3
of 3" on a Red Hat Linux install and I was curious what was being
pulled from the end of the shelf and it was one and only one package,
mutt.  I decided to see what was up and why I would want it and I
immediately threw out Pine for mutt.  I just found the keyboard
navigation shortcuts to be entirely intuitive (I liked elm but I never
liked Pine) and mutt handled MIME attached files acceptably well for a
textual client.

I've been using web-based MUAs since I switched to Gmail for personal,
and for many corporate e-mail accounts, including at my present
employer.  I haven't used a textual MUA on UNIX/Linux except 'mail'
and mutt since about 2003, but I did use mutt every day from about
2003-2009.

-ethan

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

It's easy to design an emulator at the level of the D7220 host interface.

It is _difficult_ to design an emulator at the interface between the D7220
controller and the 7242 Formatter/Sense Amplifier, because the 7242 is a
tricky little beastie, and while the interface is somewhat documented, the
docs aren't terribly clear and not entirely complete, because Intel didn't
think anyone would want to use the 7242 without the D7220.

Unfortunately what Mark needs is to emulate it at the 7242 level, because
the 7242 is in the cartridge and the D7220 is in the host.

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 2:23 PM, dwight via cctalk 
wrote:

> Do not remove the chip from the bias magnets. All will be lost if you do.
>

That's true, but AFAIK all commercially produced bubble memory devices,
including Intel (7110 1Mbit, 7114 4Mbit) and TI, the bias magnets are
integral to the packaging of the device, so there's no danger of that
unless you pry apart the device packaging.

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Is my understanding correct that removing the entire 7110 module as a unit
> (whether socketed or soldered in) should be somewhat safe, but any attempt
> to disassemble the module would likely disturb the bias field and destroy
> the data?
>

Yes, you can safely remove the entire 7110 without altering the data
within, as long as you don't subject it to strong external magnetic fields.

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

If you do lose the formatting of an Intel 7110 bubble memory device, to
reformat it you need something Intel called a "seed module". The
instructions to build a seed module are in the BPK72 manual.

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 2:33 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> If you do lose the formatting of an Intel 7110 bubble memory device, to
> reformat it you need something Intel called a "seed module". The
> instructions to build a seed module are in the BPK72 manual.


I've seen those instructions. As I understand it, I may need to do that to 
restore a module to operation if it's lost its seed. But if that has happened 
to either of the two modules in my firmware cartridge already, then it's all 
over.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> I've seen those instructions. As I understand it, I may need to do that to
> restore a module to operation if it's lost its seed. But if that has
> happened to either of the two modules in my firmware cartridge already,
> then it's all over.
>

Yes. However, unless someone deliberately tried to erase the module,
there's no particular reason to think that such a problem has occurred. The
things are very robust, which is exactly why the military liked them so
much.

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/22/2018 03:08 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
> I'm about to acquire a couple of 1980s-vintage military surplus AN/UGC-137A 
> terminals (i.e., glass TTYs with some local message preparation and storage 
> capabilities) which have a bubble memory subsystem. They use plug-in 
> cartridges containing 256 kbytes of storage in the form of two Intel 7110 1 
> Mbit bubble memory chips and their 7242 formatter/sense amplifiers.
>
> One of the cartridges contains the one and only copy of the terminals' 
> firmware, which I believe they need to load up at each reboot. Naturally, 
> extracting the contents of that irreplaceable cartridge for archival, and 
> potential future emulation, is going to be a very high priority for me. I 
> have a few different approaches in mind for accomplishing that. One approach 
> would be to remove the two memory devices from the critical cartridge in 
> order to dump their contents in an independent bubble memory subsystem.
>
> With that in mind, I'd like to get my hands on a working Intel 7110 bubble 
> memory subsystem, or the parts to build one myself (i.e., a complete 
> 7110/7220/7230/7242/7250/7254 chipset that I could make a board around).
What you plan is risky.  You first need to know how they organize the
data in each of the loops.
The problem is did that interleave the two bubble or are they addressed
seperately.  Both possibilities
were the case.  Each BM required its own CPG, FSA and drivers but could
share the 7220 BMC.

> Might anybody here have what I need available for sale or trade? I might be 
> able to use some arbitrary old computer or other device that has a subsystem 
> based around the Intel 7110, or a development kit such as the Intel BPK-72, 
> or a chipset to make my own board.
I got two of them back in the 80s, they are now part of a CP/M Z80
system I built back then.
Not much storage and sorta slow and power hungry.

> If I can't acquire or make the hardware to dump the memory chips outside of 
> their native system, then I think my next option would be to passively snoop 
> the host bus interface of the Intel 7220 controller I expect to find inside 
> the terminals as they perform their initial firmware load, so that I can 
> reconstruct the cartridge contents from the trace data.
The best and lowest risk point is to snoop is at the data bus
interface.  Logic analyzer or something fast enough to
grab the data.  The 7220 chip set gave a nice bus interface with a
fairly simple command set.  Its also the side of
the device thats well documented.

I may have a few of the basic bubble memory units 7110 as they were
socketed.  No extra CPD, FSA, Driver devices,
 or BMC 7220.


Allison

> The terminals were made by the Librascope division of Singer, and brochures 
> can be found here:
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Communications%20Terminal.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/SST.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Bubble%20Memory%20Cartridge.pdf
>
> I already have the critical cartridge in hand, and I posted some pictures of 
> it on Twitter:
>
> https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/964578291767173120
>
>
>
>

Re: Alpine vs mutt?

[Tomasz Rola via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:49:18PM -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote:
[...]
> 
> I've been using web-based MUAs since I switched to Gmail for personal,
> and for many corporate e-mail accounts, including at my present
> employer.  I haven't used a textual MUA on UNIX/Linux except 'mail'
> and mutt since about 2003, but I did use mutt every day from about
> 2003-2009.

A quick look gave me this:

https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/wikis/UseCases/Gmail

Can be found on terminal with:

  surfraw google -t -browser=`which elinks` gmail mutt

(requires packages: surfraw, elinks or lynx)

I do not have gmail account, but I am using mutt to access another one
via imap+ssl. So, if gmail can do imaps, perhaps there is a way.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[dwight via cctalk]

Looking things up, I don't think the Nicolet one with the scope was the Intel 
one.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of allison via cctalk 

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:14:45 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

On 02/22/2018 03:08 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
> I'm about to acquire a couple of 1980s-vintage military surplus AN/UGC-137A 
> terminals (i.e., glass TTYs with some local message preparation and storage 
> capabilities) which have a bubble memory subsystem. They use plug-in 
> cartridges containing 256 kbytes of storage in the form of two Intel 7110 1 
> Mbit bubble memory chips and their 7242 formatter/sense amplifiers.
>
> One of the cartridges contains the one and only copy of the terminals' 
> firmware, which I believe they need to load up at each reboot. Naturally, 
> extracting the contents of that irreplaceable cartridge for archival, and 
> potential future emulation, is going to be a very high priority for me. I 
> have a few different approaches in mind for accomplishing that. One approach 
> would be to remove the two memory devices from the critical cartridge in 
> order to dump their contents in an independent bubble memory subsystem.
>
> With that in mind, I'd like to get my hands on a working Intel 7110 bubble 
> memory subsystem, or the parts to build one myself (i.e., a complete 
> 7110/7220/7230/7242/7250/7254 chipset that I could make a board around).
What you plan is risky.  You first need to know how they organize the
data in each of the loops.
The problem is did that interleave the two bubble or are they addressed
seperately.  Both possibilities
were the case.  Each BM required its own CPG, FSA and drivers but could
share the 7220 BMC.

> Might anybody here have what I need available for sale or trade? I might be 
> able to use some arbitrary old computer or other device that has a subsystem 
> based around the Intel 7110, or a development kit such as the Intel BPK-72, 
> or a chipset to make my own board.
I got two of them back in the 80s, they are now part of a CP/M Z80
system I built back then.
Not much storage and sorta slow and power hungry.

> If I can't acquire or make the hardware to dump the memory chips outside of 
> their native system, then I think my next option would be to passively snoop 
> the host bus interface of the Intel 7220 controller I expect to find inside 
> the terminals as they perform their initial firmware load, so that I can 
> reconstruct the cartridge contents from the trace data.
The best and lowest risk point is to snoop is at the data bus
interface.  Logic analyzer or something fast enough to
grab the data.  The 7220 chip set gave a nice bus interface with a
fairly simple command set.  Its also the side of
the device thats well documented.

I may have a few of the basic bubble memory units 7110 as they were
socketed.  No extra CPD, FSA, Driver devices,
 or BMC 7220.


Allison

> The terminals were made by the Librascope division of Singer, and brochures 
> can be found here:
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Communications%20Terminal.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/SST.pdf
>
> http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/Product_Literature_files/Bubble%20Memory%20Cartridge.pdf
>
> I already have the critical cartridge in hand, and I posted some pictures of 
> it on Twitter:
>
> https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/964578291767173120
>
>
>
>

Re: Will be up for sale in this calendar year 360 Front Panel

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 02/22/2018 11:56 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:

I thought I would post a heads for

https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1


That is specifically a 360/50 front panel (upside down in 
the picture).


Jon

Re: Will be up for sale in this calendar year 360 Front Panel

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

Jon,

Thank your for the type

Upside down since I'm no longer suppose to be lifting stuff and it is more
stable that way :-)



On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 02/22/2018 11:56 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
>
>> I thought I would post a heads for
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1
>>
>>
>> That is specifically a 360/50 front panel (upside down in the picture).
>
> Jon
>
>

Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

This is all bringing back when Intel tried to see BM's to me at Tektronix.
Got to go see them being made. Something just told me  "dead end".

-pete

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 5:09 PM, dwight via cctalk 
wrote:

> Looking things up, I don't think the Nicolet one with the scope was the
> Intel one.
>
> Dwight
>
>
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of allison via
> cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:14:45 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: WTB Intel 7110 Bubble Memory Subsystem or Chipset
>
> On 02/22/2018 03:08 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
> > I'm about to acquire a couple of 1980s-vintage military surplus
> AN/UGC-137A terminals (i.e., glass TTYs with some local message preparation
> and storage capabilities) which have a bubble memory subsystem. They use
> plug-in cartridges containing 256 kbytes of storage in the form of two
> Intel 7110 1 Mbit bubble memory chips and their 7242 formatter/sense
> amplifiers.
> >
> > One of the cartridges contains the one and only copy of the terminals'
> firmware, which I believe they need to load up at each reboot. Naturally,
> extracting the contents of that irreplaceable cartridge for archival, and
> potential future emulation, is going to be a very high priority for me. I
> have a few different approaches in mind for accomplishing that. One
> approach would be to remove the two memory devices from the critical
> cartridge in order to dump their contents in an independent bubble memory
> subsystem.
> >
> > With that in mind, I'd like to get my hands on a working Intel 7110
> bubble memory subsystem, or the parts to build one myself (i.e., a complete
> 7110/7220/7230/7242/7250/7254 chipset that I could make a board around).
> What you plan is risky.  You first need to know how they organize the
> data in each of the loops.
> The problem is did that interleave the two bubble or are they addressed
> seperately.  Both possibilities
> were the case.  Each BM required its own CPG, FSA and drivers but could
> share the 7220 BMC.
>
> > Might anybody here have what I need available for sale or trade? I might
> be able to use some arbitrary old computer or other device that has a
> subsystem based around the Intel 7110, or a development kit such as the
> Intel BPK-72, or a chipset to make my own board.
> I got two of them back in the 80s, they are now part of a CP/M Z80
> system I built back then.
> Not much storage and sorta slow and power hungry.
>
> > If I can't acquire or make the hardware to dump the memory chips outside
> of their native system, then I think my next option would be to passively
> snoop the host bus interface of the Intel 7220 controller I expect to find
> inside the terminals as they perform their initial firmware load, so that I
> can reconstruct the cartridge contents from the trace data.
> The best and lowest risk point is to snoop is at the data bus
> interface.  Logic analyzer or something fast enough to
> grab the data.  The 7220 chip set gave a nice bus interface with a
> fairly simple command set.  Its also the side of
> the device thats well documented.
>
> I may have a few of the basic bubble memory units 7110 as they were
> socketed.  No extra CPD, FSA, Driver devices,
>  or BMC 7220.
>
>
> Allison
>
> > The terminals were made by the Librascope division of Singer, and
> brochures can be found here:
> >
> > http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/Communications%20Terminal.pdf
> >
> > http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/SST.pdf
> >
> > http://www.librascopememories.com/Librascope_Memories/
> Product_Literature_files/Bubble%20Memory%20Cartridge.pdf
> >
> > I already have the critical cartridge in hand, and I posted some
> pictures of it on Twitter:
> >
> > https://twitter.com/nf6x/status/964578291767173120
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

damn ....

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EfDc3rRMfyfTNdgw2

>From my days at Burroughs writing hardware test programs

96 col cards were the standard on the later 1700's

I had full access from midnight to 7AM but the shop was window only
until the next night.

Turn around time during the day could be as much as 4 hours.

-pete

Re: damn ....

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

someone needs to make a meme outa that

Univac 9400 panel ( Was:Re: Will be up for sale in this calendar year 360 Front Panel)

[Jos Dreesen via cctalk]

On 22.02.2018 18:56, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:

I thought I would post a heads for

https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1

I have the IBM 360 aluminum plate that goes on top, it is scratched. More
detailed and better pictures as I dig deeper.



...and if someone needs a nice Univac 9400 console to go with that, I have one 
doing nothing in my basement.
Good condition, but flatcables cut. Located in Switzerland I'm afraid.


Was planning to one day add an FPGA behind it, but I now realized that I have 
enough on my classiccmp plate as it is...


Jos  

Re: damn ....

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/22/2018 10:39 PM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/EfDc3rRMfyfTNdgw2
> 
>>From my days at Burroughs writing hardware test programs

The IBM 96 column card always seemed to me like a throwback to the
Univac 90-column card--multiple rows and round holes--and 6 columns per
row (8 bit EBCDIC used a rather bizarre encoding scheme that I never
bothered to wrap my mind around).

--Chuck

Re: Univac 9400 panel ( Was:Re: Will be up for sale in this calendar year 360 Front Panel)

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

have the 360-30  aluminum bar on top but not eh panel... wish I had   kept it!  
ca. 1980 when I  got the bar... Ed#
 
In a message dated 2/23/2018 12:33:34 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
 
 On 22.02.2018 18:56, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
> I thought I would post a heads for
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/36CxlZQJDssj5uLh1
> 
> I have the IBM 360 aluminum plate that goes on top, it is scratched. More
> detailed and better pictures as I dig deeper.


...and if someone needs a nice Univac 9400 console to go with that, I have one 
doing nothing in my basement.
Good condition, but flatcables cut. Located in Switzerland I'm afraid.


Was planning to one day add an FPGA behind it, but I now realized that I have 
enough on my classiccmp plate as it is...


Jos 

Re: damn ....

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

I can be more blunt, it was a total business failure mostly too late by
then key to tape or direct entry had started to come into the market and
could you imagine going to a place like an insurance company that had whole
floors full of card cabinets that only fit only 80 col cords and sell
them a different format ?

At least the round chad did not stick you your clothing or the carpets.

-pete

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:33 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 02/22/2018 10:39 PM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/EfDc3rRMfyfTNdgw2
> >
> >>From my days at Burroughs writing hardware test programs
>
> The IBM 96 column card always seemed to me like a throwback to the
> Univac 90-column card--multiple rows and round holes--and 6 columns per
> row (8 bit EBCDIC used a rather bizarre encoding scheme that I never
> bothered to wrap my mind around).
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: damn ....

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Sounds like my days as a contract programmer for Burroughs; had the keys to the 
building and the combination to the (large) machine room and did all my 
compiling etc. in the night when I was the only one in the building. Some 
pictures somewhere of a much younger me at the console of a B2700...

The good old days when no one worried about security...

Still have some blank 96 col cards somewhere, as well as edge-punched (PPT 
format) and 80 col tab cards.

 m

- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Lancashire via cctalk" 
To: "General" 
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 1:39 AM
Subject: damn 


> https://photos.app.goo.gl/EfDc3rRMfyfTNdgw2
> 
> From my days at Burroughs writing hardware test programs
> 
> 96 col cards were the standard on the later 1700's
> 
> I had full access from midnight to 7AM but the shop was window only
> until the next night.
> 
> Turn around time during the day could be as much as 4 hours.
> 
> -pete