Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 09:46 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 10/13/2017 06:27 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:


For 800 BPI I have most of this in my head, if you have any specific
questions.  (I wrote up a mostly software read/write interface for 800
BPI NRZi mag tape many years ago on a CM/M system.)

800 BPI is a VERY simple format.

...and not everyone follows the standard.  For example, some early
vendors left out the CRC before the LRCC.  Almost all drives will ignore
the omission.


Geez, I wonder how they do that?  First, the CRC 
generator/checker is zeroed, then you clock all the data 
bytes into the CRC logic, then at the end, there is a 
2-character-time gap, the CRC and the LRCC.  If the CRC is 
missing, then the LRCC would be applied to the CRC checker 
and it wouldn't check.  I'm pretty sure the formatters I've 
worked on would barf on such a tape (indicate CRC and LRCC 
errors, and the data transferred to memory would lose the 
last data byte.)


Apperently, IBM used a byte-FIFO, and when the full gap was 
detected, the last two bytes read would be the CRC and 
LRCC.  This allowed them to handle tapes written on machines 
with the tape controller on the multiplexer bus, which could 
cause short gaps when the data was not available quite fast 
enough.  NOTHING else could read those damn tapes!  Their 
controller ignored gaps of up to at least 5 character 
times.  All the DEC-compatible formatters seemed to use the 
2-character-time gap to indicate CRC and LRCC follow.

Jon

RE: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Brad H via cctalk]

That's really great!  I wish someone like you had been around when I started 
collecting!  Something like this is kind of what I'm thinking of doing with my 
collection once I'm done with it.  But not yet.. still saving up for an Altair. 
:)

You wouldn't be willing to put up pictures somewhere, would you?  Always love 
perusing others' collections.

Brad

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Digital Aeon 
via cctalk
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:25 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

After many years of collecting,  Im tired of moving it all

So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that 
wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.

So if there is anyone out there starting out and wants what I have I will
gladly hand it over to them free of charge.I would like to see this go
to someone who doesn't have anything.


I have apple, commodore, sun, x86 you name it I got it.  about  4 truckloads 
full if not more.

Im located in Mid Michigan

Steve

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Kurt K via cctalk]

Hello

I just have to ask the question.  I too have spent a long time searching for 
selective hardware.  Do you happen to have the Compucolor II, Memotech RS128, 
and/or APF Imagination?  Three systems I seek to finally find before I finally 
depart from this world.  

I appreciate it.

Thanks
Kurt


> On Oct 13, 2017, at 1:25 AM, Digital Aeon via cctech  
> wrote:
> 
> After many years of collecting,  Im tired of moving it all
> 
> So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
> pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that
> wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.
> 
> So if there is anyone out there starting out and wants what I have I will
> gladly hand it over to them free of charge.I would like to see this go
> to someone who doesn't have anything.
> 
> 
> I have apple, commodore, sun, x86 you name it I got it.  about  4
> truckloads full if not more.
> 
> Im located in Mid Michigan
> 
> Steve

Catalog of Items For Sale

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Here is a list of links to ads for items that are still for sale, with
fresh new links to
photos on the very tolerable Flickr.

Franklin ACE 100
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?56187-Franklin-ACE-100

Original Macintosh Accessory Kit w/Manual, System Disks, Audio Cassette,
Brochures
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57671-Original-Mac
intosh-Accessory-Kit-w-Manual-System-Disks-Audio-Cassette-Brochures

SouthWest Technical Products Corporation (SWTPC) 6800
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?56190-SouthWest-
Technical-Products-Corporation-(SWTPC)-6800

Tandy 1400LT DOS Portable - works great!
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57669-Tandy-1400LT
-DOS-Portable-works-great!

STM Pied Piper Portable Computer
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?56872-STM-Pied-Pip
er-Portable-Computer

IBM PCjr with both regular and "chiclet" keyboards and monitor + accessories
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57574-IBM-PCjr-with-both-regular-and-quot-chiclet-quot-keyboards-and-monitor-accessories

National Semiconductor Series 32000 Designer Kit - Complete
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58604-National-Semiconductor-Series-32000-Designer-Kit-Complete

Mentor Graphics 433 Workstation, "Wilma"
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?60031-Mentor-Graphics-433-Workstation-quot-Wilma-quot

HP ThinkJet printers HP-IB, excellent condition and working
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?60033-HP-ThinkJet-printers-HP-IB-and-RS-232C-interfaces-excellent-condition-and-working

HP 9862A 20/30 Calculator-Plotter I/O
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?59958-HP-9862A-20-30-Calculator-Plotter-I-O-and-11202A-TTL-I-O-Interface

HP OmniBook 300 & 425 w/3.5" external drive and more
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?59962-HP-OmniBook-300-amp-425-w-3-5-quot-external-drive-and-more

TRS-80 Model III w/4 half-height 5.25" floppy drives, needs work
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?59937-TRS-80-Model-III-w-4-half-height-5-25-quot-floppy-drives-needs-work

I will consider any reasonable offer on any of my items.  Please send
inquiries to me directly.

Thank you!

Sellam

Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 06:27 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

> For 800 BPI I have most of this in my head, if you have any specific
> questions.  (I wrote up a mostly software read/write interface for 800
> BPI NRZi mag tape many years ago on a CM/M system.)
> 
> 800 BPI is a VERY simple format.

...and not everyone follows the standard.  For example, some early
vendors left out the CRC before the LRCC.  Almost all drives will ignore
the omission.

1600 PE is more complex and 6250 GCR is another world.

--Chuck

Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 03:00 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk wrote:


Greetings to the List -

Does anyone have a copy of the text of the actual ISO 1863 
standard that defines, I think, the formatting of the 
ancient 1/2" magnetic tapes???


I am interested to understand better the format of the 
calculated LRC at the end of tape blocks, sync signals, 
record gaps and all the rest.


For 800 BPI I have most of this in my head, if you have any 
specific questions.  (I wrote up a mostly software 
read/write interface for 800 BPI NRZi mag tape many years 
ago on a CM/M system.)


800 BPI is a VERY simple format.

Jon

Re: A Mystery

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Oct 13, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 13/10/17 07:17, Holm Tiffe wrote:
>> 
>> I meant that brick:
>> http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-3.jpg
>> http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-1.jpg
>> http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-12jpg
>> 
>> 
>> on those boards:
>> 
>> http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-ISA.jpg
>> http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-VME.jpg
>> 
>> which contains an CVAX.
>> 
> 
> That does look nice.
> 
> But the VAX 4000-50 was actually called "VAX Brick" (at least internally ... 
> I never saw many external references to it).
> 
> Antonio

Interesting, that’s something I’ve never seen, then again, I’ve not seen a VAX 
4000-50 either.

What does the ISA card plug into?

Zane

Re: More tape drives - what is this one?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 04:00 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> Found on eBay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/i/172896286711
> 
> Something out of the '50s? Just curious.

Multichannel audio recorder, I think:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/budapesti_multi_channel_tape_shr_21.html

--Chuck

More tape drives - what is this one?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Found on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/i/172896286711

Something out of the '50s? Just curious.

=]
-- 
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Re: Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Righto, thanks for the tips!

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:49 PM Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > Hello friends,
> >
> > The Kennedy
> 9800
> arrived...
> >
> > Anyway the supply reel has some slop in it when I mount a tape so I
> suspect
> > the o-ring has lost some fluff. It looks to be 3.4" in diameter and 0.2"
> > thick. The manual mentions a reel hub maintenance kit but not the
> contents.
> > Can you recommend a replacement size?
>
> Dunno what size, but should squeeze out enough to grip the reel
> firmly.  I have a TS03 which is, I think, a Kennedy 9700 mech.  Looks
> similar, older internals (and 800 bpi).  That's how it works.
>
> I would see how to either roll the old o-ring out or see if you have
> to dismantle the hub.  It's likely to be still close to the original
> size, so I would remove it, then put it in a micrometer for
> dimensioning and see what standard rings are about that size or a
> touch larger.
>
> > Also, for the takeup reel - should I just empty a tape reel of its tape?
> I
> > have 10, brand-new 8.5" tapes so I'd rather not destroy one if I can
> avoid
> > it. Unless someone can use the unused tape without a reel?
>
> No.  if you hold up two reels to those hubs you will see that there is
> no room for a second reel.  The tape sits on itself with no takeup
> reel.  Lets them put the motors closer together so the whole drive
> fits in an 19" rack.  You just take the loose end, put it on the
> takeup hub bare, then give it a couple of turns until it grabs, then
> "load".
>
> BTW, don't leave slack when loading.  It will "snap" tight if you do.
> There's a reason they called the TS03 the "Tape Stretcher 03".
>
> -ethan
>
-- 
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Re: Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk
 wrote:
> Hello friends,
>
> The Kennedy 9800 arrived...
>
> Anyway the supply reel has some slop in it when I mount a tape so I suspect
> the o-ring has lost some fluff. It looks to be 3.4" in diameter and 0.2"
> thick. The manual mentions a reel hub maintenance kit but not the contents.
> Can you recommend a replacement size?

Dunno what size, but should squeeze out enough to grip the reel
firmly.  I have a TS03 which is, I think, a Kennedy 9700 mech.  Looks
similar, older internals (and 800 bpi).  That's how it works.

I would see how to either roll the old o-ring out or see if you have
to dismantle the hub.  It's likely to be still close to the original
size, so I would remove it, then put it in a micrometer for
dimensioning and see what standard rings are about that size or a
touch larger.

> Also, for the takeup reel - should I just empty a tape reel of its tape? I
> have 10, brand-new 8.5" tapes so I'd rather not destroy one if I can avoid
> it. Unless someone can use the unused tape without a reel?

No.  if you hold up two reels to those hubs you will see that there is
no room for a second reel.  The tape sits on itself with no takeup
reel.  Lets them put the motors closer together so the whole drive
fits in an 19" rack.  You just take the loose end, put it on the
takeup hub bare, then give it a couple of turns until it grabs, then
"load".

BTW, don't leave slack when loading.  It will "snap" tight if you do.
There's a reason they called the TS03 the "Tape Stretcher 03".

-ethan

Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Jack Harper via cctalk]

Well, amazing Chuck - I looked and looked and looked and

I appreciate it. Thank You.

Anders and Paul, I appreciate the input - and the other HP documents.

More the better!  :)

Regards,

Jack




At 02:58 PM 10/13/2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 10/13/2017 01:34 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

> ISO standards are sold for actual money, so a real copy may be hard
> to find.  You may be better off looking for an old computer company
> document.  The HP document Anders mentioned might work; IBM also has
> several documents that are helpful.

Ah, but we live in an Internet world.  So the 800 NRZI 1/2" tape
document is available as a B.I.S. (Bureau of Indian Standards) document
here:

https://ia801008.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.in.is.11409.2006/is.11409.2006.pdf

Just takes a little Google-fu, is all.

--Chuck


--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750 (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info. 

Re: Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Here are some pictures:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qlJfziUdMcg3tRsR2

=]


--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 10/13/2017 12:55 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
>
> > The Kennedy 9800 arrived, packed way better than I was expecting - it
> looks
> > perfect cosmetically and intact electrically. There are date stamps of
> > February 15, 1984 inside. Perhaps the last manufacturing run or refurb
> date?
>
> I can't say anything specific about the Kennedy drives, but most small
> drives of this type employ a mechanism where the ring is compressed by
> the hub clamping mechanism to make solid contact with the reel hub.
>
> Usually, there's some adjustment for this.  It can be as simple as
> turning the hub latch clockwise or counterclockwise with the hub itself
> being held stationary.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Hey Chuck,

Yep this is precisely what I see. Seems like the hub bottoms out against
the metal but the ring doesn't expand in one spot enough to hold the hub
evenly against the rear.

--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 10/13/2017 12:55 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
>
> > The Kennedy 9800 arrived, packed way better than I was expecting - it
> looks
> > perfect cosmetically and intact electrically. There are date stamps of
> > February 15, 1984 inside. Perhaps the last manufacturing run or refurb
> date?
>
> I can't say anything specific about the Kennedy drives, but most small
> drives of this type employ a mechanism where the ring is compressed by
> the hub clamping mechanism to make solid contact with the reel hub.
>
> Usually, there's some adjustment for this.  It can be as simple as
> turning the hub latch clockwise or counterclockwise with the hub itself
> being held stationary.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 01:34 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

> ISO standards are sold for actual money, so a real copy may be hard
> to find.  You may be better off looking for an old computer company
> document.  The HP document Anders mentioned might work; IBM also has
> several documents that are helpful.

Ah, but we live in an Internet world.  So the 800 NRZI 1/2" tape
document is available as a B.I.S. (Bureau of Indian Standards) document
here:

https://ia801008.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.in.is.11409.2006/is.11409.2006.pdf

Just takes a little Google-fu, is all.

--Chuck

Re: Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 12:55 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

> The Kennedy 9800 arrived, packed way better than I was expecting - it looks
> perfect cosmetically and intact electrically. There are date stamps of
> February 15, 1984 inside. Perhaps the last manufacturing run or refurb date?

I can't say anything specific about the Kennedy drives, but most small
drives of this type employ a mechanism where the ring is compressed by
the hub clamping mechanism to make solid contact with the reel hub.

Usually, there's some adjustment for this.  It can be as simple as
turning the hub latch clockwise or counterclockwise with the hub itself
being held stationary.

--Chuck

Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Oct 13, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Greetings to the List -
> 
> Does anyone have a copy of the text of the actual ISO 1863 standard that 
> defines, I think, the formatting of the ancient 1/2" magnetic tapes???
> 
> I am interested to understand better the format of the calculated LRC at the 
> end of tape blocks, sync signals, record gaps and all the rest.
> 
> I contemplate seeing if I can get an 1/2" tape drive operational with my 68K 
> system by emulating the drive hardware control signals in software.
> 
> ISO 1863 appears to govern that:  https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/10668

Correct, if you're looking for 9-track 800 BPI (NRZI) recording.  There are of 
course several other possibilities: 7-track at 700, 556, or 800 BPI (NRZI), 
9-track at 1600 BPI (PE) or 6250 BPI (GCR).

ISO standards are sold for actual money, so a real copy may be hard to find.  
You may be better off looking for an old computer company document.  The HP 
document Anders mentioned might work; IBM also has several documents that are 
helpful.

"Sync signals" -- that would be an interface question.  ISO will not tell you 
about that, it's a device detail.  If you have a particular tape drive you're 
working with, the spec for that drive would spell out the signals it expects 
and that it generates.

paul

Re: A Mystery

[Holm Tiffe via cctalk]

Antonio Carlini wrote:

> On 13/10/17 07:17, Holm Tiffe wrote:
> >
> > I meant that brick:
> > http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-3.jpg
> > http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-1.jpg
> > http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-12jpg
> >
> >
> > on those boards:
> >
> > http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-ISA.jpg
> > http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-VME.jpg
> >
> > which contains an CVAX.
> >
> 
> That does look nice.

Yes, I know :-)

As I've already wrote I had it netbooting NetBSD until the point where
the shell should be going started, but I had to port the SLU driver from
the netbsd-pmax port to get it really working. Next thing is that with
that defect marked config memory page that gets overwritten from NetBSD.
I've to dumb to figure that things out and the netbsd people where'nt
relally interrested at all (almost nobody has such cards).
Otherwise the Gate arrays and the ISA cards interface to the PC bus
aren't documented at all, at least I could'nt find any docs for it.

> But the VAX 4000-50 was actually called "VAX Brick" (at least internally 
> ... I never saw many external references to it).
> 
> Antonio

I think I've read the description "VAX-Brick" for that rtVAX300 in the
port-...@netbsd.org mailing list, so that isn't my invention, the fact
that a VAX 4000-50 called VAX-Brick exsists was mentioned there too.

Regards,

Holm

-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Chuck sent me this:

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/hp/tape/MVD-014_introToMagTap_Apr71.pdf

=]

--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Jack Harper via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> Greetings to the List -
>
> Does anyone have a copy of the text of the actual ISO 1863 standard that
> defines, I think, the formatting of the ancient 1/2" magnetic tapes???
>
> I am interested to understand better the format of the calculated LRC at
> the end of tape blocks, sync signals, record gaps and all the rest.
>
> I contemplate seeing if I can get an 1/2" tape drive operational with my
> 68K system by emulating the drive hardware control signals in software.
>
> ISO 1863 appears to govern that:  https://webstore.iec.ch/public
> ation/10668
>
> I appreciate any leads.
>
> Regards from the Rocky Mountains,
>
> Jack
>
>
> 
> --
> Jack Harper, President
> Secure Outcomes Inc
> 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
> Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA
>
> 303.670.8375
> 303.670.3750 (fax)
>
> http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.
>

Re: Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Err, maybe this drives doesn't use a reel? The takeup reel has rubber
around the hub and a solid plastic disc toward the rear. Do I just slip the
end of the tape under itself and the rubber surface does the rest?

The oldest storage medium I've worked with is a 5 1/4" floppy disk...

=]

--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Anders Nelson 
wrote:

> Hello friends,
>
> The Kennedy 9800 arrived, packed way better than I was expecting - it
> looks perfect cosmetically and intact electrically. There are date stamps
> of February 15, 1984 inside. Perhaps the last manufacturing run or refurb
> date?
>
> Anyway the supply reel has some slop in it when I mount a tape so I
> suspect the o-ring has lost some fluff. It looks to be 3.4" in diameter and
> 0.2" thick. The manual mentions a reel hub maintenance kit but not the
> contents. Can you recommend a replacement size?
>
> Also, for the takeup reel - should I just empty a tape reel of its tape? I
> have 10, brand-new 8.5" tapes so I'd rather not destroy one if I can avoid
> it. Unless someone can use the unused tape without a reel?
>
> I'm all ears!
> --
> Anders Nelson
>
> +1 (517) 775-6129
>
> www.erogear.com
>

HP 7970 1/2" 9-Track Reel-to-Reel Tape Drive...

[Jack Harper via cctalk]

Greetings to the List -

Does anyone have a copy of the text of the actual ISO 1863 standard 
that defines, I think, the formatting of the ancient 1/2" magnetic tapes???


I am interested to understand better the format of the calculated LRC 
at the end of tape blocks, sync signals, record gaps and all the rest.


I contemplate seeing if I can get an 1/2" tape drive operational with 
my 68K system by emulating the drive hardware control signals in software.


ISO 1863 appears to govern that:  https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/10668

I appreciate any leads.

Regards from the Rocky Mountains,

Jack


--
Jack Harper, President
Secure Outcomes Inc
2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300
Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA

303.670.8375
303.670.3750 (fax)

http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info. 

Kennedy 9800 - supply reel o-ring size?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Hello friends,

The Kennedy 9800 arrived, packed way better than I was expecting - it looks
perfect cosmetically and intact electrically. There are date stamps of
February 15, 1984 inside. Perhaps the last manufacturing run or refurb date?

Anyway the supply reel has some slop in it when I mount a tape so I suspect
the o-ring has lost some fluff. It looks to be 3.4" in diameter and 0.2"
thick. The manual mentions a reel hub maintenance kit but not the contents.
Can you recommend a replacement size?

Also, for the takeup reel - should I just empty a tape reel of its tape? I
have 10, brand-new 8.5" tapes so I'd rather not destroy one if I can avoid
it. Unless someone can use the unused tape without a reel?

I'm all ears!
--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

Next In The Pile Of Mostly Dec Stuff up for grabs (Baltimore Area)

[Fran Smith via cctalk]

Hiya,

One Microvax 3300 plus a R215F expansion. No cables but both are 
complete and not too beat up. The cost will be listening to some of my 
stories and a couple six packs of Autumm Ale.


One complete Next Slab system including display and laser printer. Again 
the cost will be listening to some of my stories and a couple six packs 
of Autumm Ale. Will need to take it all.


One NOS Emulex Rack Mounted SMDI controller set up including cables , 
two head units and the power controller.  Again the cost will be 
listening to some of my stories and a couple six packs of Autumm Ale. 
Will need to take it all. Lots of blinking lights to soothe the soul.


One complete IBM Aptiva system with boxes. This you can take (All of it) 
and not have to be bored or supply beer.


I have other stuff as well. But that stuff will cost but not too crazy 
as I want it all out of my way.


3100 Vaxstations and expansion boxes , Dec Professionals , One Televideo 
Dumb Terminal , One Commodore Pet (Not Chicklet) and some smaller stuff.


Contact me off list for the gory details.
--
Kindest Regards,
Fran Smith
Webology Hosting

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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: A Mystery

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 13/10/17 07:17, Holm Tiffe wrote:


I meant that brick:
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-3.jpg
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-1.jpg
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-12jpg


on those boards:

http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-ISA.jpg
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-VME.jpg

which contains an CVAX.



That does look nice.

But the VAX 4000-50 was actually called "VAX Brick" (at least internally 
... I never saw many external references to it).


Antonio

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 6:36 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk wrote:

On 10/13/17, 6:50 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Zane Healy via cctalk"
 wrote:


The system can actually run stock 8.4?  I believe that at least the
latest 8.4 release from VSI requires a 21264 CPU.

VSI here :-)

While it¹s not supported, and hasn¹t been qualified, 8.4 - including the
VSI release 8.4-2L1 for Alpha - would probably run fine on a DEC 3000 or
4000. The one release that won¹t run on it is 8.4-2L2, which is the
performance build version of 8.4-2L1. Performance build means that the
compiler was told to optimize for EV6, and hence it won¹t run on anything
older than that.

Camiel.


I am using the Hobbyist Alpha OpenVMS version, which I downloaded on 
Monday.


The next time I start it up what command do I issue to get the full 8.4 
version I am using?


Included in the distro were updates:

VMS84A_UPDATE-V1000.ZIPEXE, openvms_alpha_8_4_update500, 
openvmsalphav84-tcp57eco5


A cursory look at the 8.4 documentation left me confused about required 
updates needed before I performed these updates.


Here is the text that confused me:

Mandatory Kit Dependencies: VMS84A_PCSI-V0400 or later

Wasn't included in the distro.

I installed the Fortran compiler, which went OK.  But, was warned not to 
install the CXML library because of missing Fortran RTL files.


Probably isn't your role to comment on the Hobbyist version, but these 
are some initial questions I've run into.  Maybe someone else can answer.


Thanks.

Doug

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

I was curious about the RZ29 since they seem to be very inexpensive.  
I'm trying to decide whether to 're-purpose' a SCSI2SD adapter I'm 
already using.  I hate to undo something once its already done and 
working, but SD cards are so cheap.


On 10/13/2017 3:15 AM, Peter Coghlan via cctech wrote:

Douglas Taylor wrote:


I'm trying to bring up an Alpha machine, a 3000-300, the hardware is 
working fine, but I have some questions-


The system disk is an RZ26 (1.06GB) and I installed the OS and one 
layered product and the disk is full.  How much disk space is needed 
for 8.4?




I have several of those disks, some in Storageworks bricks.  Back in the
VMS V7 era, I thought they would be just right for installing a system
on and not much else.  On more than one occasion, just after I had
everything set up on it just the way I wanted it, the disk started 
clocking

errors and shortly after that, it died in clunk-clunk-clunk mode :-(

I'd suggest looking for another disk that isn't an RZ26.

I also have at least one 4GB disk (RZ28 or RZ29? I can't remember) which
works fine once it gets going but needs a tap or a quick twist to get
it going when it is trying to spin up.  Not too practical for installing
in a machine with the cover on though.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

On 10/13/2017 12:57 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
I also have a similar system. VMS should have loads of room in 1Gb. My 
problem is its god awful slow running DEC windows. I'm on vacation now 
but back on 17th


There was a system disk that came with the Alpha with VMS 7.3 and had 
800,000 free blocks on the RZ26 drive.

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Oct 13, 2017, at 12:15 AM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Douglas Taylor wrote:
>> 
>> I'm trying to bring up an Alpha machine, a 3000-300, the hardware is working 
>> fine, but I have some questions-
>> 
>> The system disk is an RZ26 (1.06GB) and I installed the OS and one layered 
>> product and the disk is full.  How much disk space is needed for 8.4?
>> 
> 
> I have several of those disks, some in Storageworks bricks.  Back in the
> VMS V7 era, I thought they would be just right for installing a system
> on and not much else.  On more than one occasion, just after I had
> everything set up on it just the way I wanted it, the disk started clocking
> errors and shortly after that, it died in clunk-clunk-clunk mode :-(
> 
> I'd suggest looking for another disk that isn't an RZ26.
> 
> I also have at least one 4GB disk (RZ28 or RZ29? I can't remember) which
> works fine once it gets going but needs a tap or a quick twist to get
> it going when it is trying to spin up.  Not too practical for installing
> in a machine with the cover on though.
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Coghlan

The idea of the RZ29’s starting to have troubles spinning up is a bit 
depressing.  I lucked out and got 6 shelves of them for free at one point, so I 
tend to use BA350’s and RZ29’s on anything except my main VMS system.  
Thankfully the system disk on my VAX spun up with out any problem.  It’s been a 
few years since any of my VMS hardware was turned on.  Which helps to explain 
why the OS is out of date on the Alpha.

Zane

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

Thanks, that’s good to know.  That means I need to focus on getting my system 
upgraded to 8.4, rather than fighting with SSH any more.  

Zane




> On Oct 12, 2017, at 11:36 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I have 8.4 running on a DEC 3000 as well.  SSH works fine for me.  I think I 
> have a 4GB system disk and have all kinds of extra software installed.  It's 
> currently on the shelf, so I can't tell exactly how much space I'm using -- 
> but erm, I'd look for at least a 4GB drive ;)
> 
> I've wanted to upgrade to a 68pin drive myself, but there's just no room in 
> the case for a drive + adapter, so you're kinda looking at an external drive 
> cabinet at that point.
> 
> --Jason

Re: More videos of VCF's Univac

[Ben Sinclair via cctalk]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I texted our project leader. He replied: "The short answer is I don't
> know. The copy I got is from one of the sailors on a destroyer with the
> equipment. Most programs written for the 1219 used an assembler called TRIM
> or Ultra. Remember that there is only 32K of memory in the machine."
>

They're not currently using these machines, are they? I did a little
digging and I found mentions of that machine running the "RIM-24 Tartar"
missile system, which is still in use, but maybe the computer has been
replaced by now!



-- 
Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Jason Howe via cctalk]

Hi Camiel,

Is there a solution for Hobbyists to get the VSI 8.4 Alpha release?

Last time I checked/inquired it seemed like there was uncertainty about 
it.  And from what I understand the standard HP Hobbyists License PAKs 
won't be of much use on a VSI system.


Thanks,
Jason


On 10/13/2017 03:36 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk wrote:

On 10/13/17, 6:50 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Zane Healy via cctalk"
 wrote:


The system can actually run stock 8.4?  I believe that at least the
latest 8.4 release from VSI requires a 21264 CPU.

VSI here :-)

While it¹s not supported, and hasn¹t been qualified, 8.4 - including the
VSI release 8.4-2L1 for Alpha - would probably run fine on a DEC 3000 or
4000. The one release that won¹t run on it is 8.4-2L2, which is the
performance build version of 8.4-2L1. Performance build means that the
compiler was told to optimize for EV6, and hence it won¹t run on anything
older than that.

Camiel.

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[william degnan via cctalk]

>
> Anyone who is tasked with taking everything will be able to hold it
> forever any more than you, so they'll have to sell/give away again anyway.
> Bill
>
>
>
I mean not ..."be able to hold it forever ..."

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[william degnan via cctalk]

Alternative approachhave an open house and invite friends of the hobby
to take an item after explaining why they want it, spread it around a
little, then after all that is done, let someone with no strings attached
take the rest, maybe pay you a token amount.  This way you're putting the
items that mean someone to you personally in the hands of persons you know
specialize in x/y/z.  Anyone who is tasked with taking everything will be
able to hold it forever any more than you, so they'll have to sell/give
away again anyway.
Bill

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:53 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Hmmm, been there, done that, I have a pair of cents to add to this
> question.
> Some people are accumulators, they want everything. Some people wants a
> "meaning", or an "objective" to his/her collection. That was my case.
>
> I got lots of computers from a good friend. He had a huge collection and
> gave me most of it. Most of them were very desirable computers, and some
> uber rare. But my space is limited, and I have an "objective" on my
> collection. So I sold some of the computers he gave me, and bought other
> computers and peripherals I wanted in my collection. Now I have mostly all
> Sinclair computers (had none before), A complete Apple IIe (had none
> before), a MSX FS-A1ST (Turbo-R, had no import MSX before) and other
> computers most alligned to which I wanted to have (man, how i DO LOVE the
> Atari 800...).
>
> So, I did it - got an entire collection and sold some of it - But I don't
> consider me a professional seller profitting on the lifetime efforts of my
> friend. Even because the net value of what I've sold is less than what I
> spent buying. Then, I didn't profit with that.
>
> If I were Steve, I'd expect that some of the stuff will be sold, and the
> lucky guy will stay with what he/she loves and cares most. I see no harm in
> this kind of action
>
> 2017-10-13 7:06 GMT-03:00 Peter Cetinski via cctalk  >:
>
> >
> > > On Oct 13, 2017, at 2:25 AM, Digital Aeon via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
> > > pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby
> > that
> > > wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.
> > >
> > > Steve
> >
> > A noble approach.  But, watch out for the professional eBay seller posing
> > as a collector who will make a nice profit off of your lifetime efforts.
>

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk]

On 10/13/17, 6:50 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Zane Healy via cctalk"
 wrote:

>The system can actually run stock 8.4?  I believe that at least the
>latest 8.4 release from VSI requires a 21264 CPU.

VSI here :-)

While it¹s not supported, and hasn¹t been qualified, 8.4 - including the
VSI release 8.4-2L1 for Alpha - would probably run fine on a DEC 3000 or
4000. The one release that won¹t run on it is 8.4-2L2, which is the
performance build version of 8.4-2L1. Performance build means that the
compiler was told to optimize for EV6, and hence it won¹t run on anything
older than that.

Camiel.

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

Hmmm, been there, done that, I have a pair of cents to add to this
question.
Some people are accumulators, they want everything. Some people wants a
"meaning", or an "objective" to his/her collection. That was my case.

I got lots of computers from a good friend. He had a huge collection and
gave me most of it. Most of them were very desirable computers, and some
uber rare. But my space is limited, and I have an "objective" on my
collection. So I sold some of the computers he gave me, and bought other
computers and peripherals I wanted in my collection. Now I have mostly all
Sinclair computers (had none before), A complete Apple IIe (had none
before), a MSX FS-A1ST (Turbo-R, had no import MSX before) and other
computers most alligned to which I wanted to have (man, how i DO LOVE the
Atari 800...).

So, I did it - got an entire collection and sold some of it - But I don't
consider me a professional seller profitting on the lifetime efforts of my
friend. Even because the net value of what I've sold is less than what I
spent buying. Then, I didn't profit with that.

If I were Steve, I'd expect that some of the stuff will be sold, and the
lucky guy will stay with what he/she loves and cares most. I see no harm in
this kind of action

2017-10-13 7:06 GMT-03:00 Peter Cetinski via cctalk :

>
> > On Oct 13, 2017, at 2:25 AM, Digital Aeon via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
> > pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby
> that
> > wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.
> >
> > Steve
>
> A noble approach.  But, watch out for the professional eBay seller posing
> as a collector who will make a nice profit off of your lifetime efforts.

CALCUSEUM Email dead?

[Holm Tiffe via cctalk]

Hi,

I friend of mine tried to contact the CALCUSEUM Owner at the Mail
address provided at http://www.calcuseum.com/Wanted.html, but
he got his mail reflected as undeliverable, tried the same, got a 550,
user doesn't exist there.

Does someone know how to contact the guy there?

Regards,

Holm
-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Oct 13, 2017, at 2:25 AM, Digital Aeon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
> pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that
> wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.
> 
> Steve

A noble approach.  But, watch out for the professional eBay seller posing as a 
collector who will make a nice profit off of your lifetime efforts.

Re: Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

Congratulations for your offering. I believe you will make someone very
happy :)


2017-10-13 3:25 GMT-03:00 Digital Aeon via cctalk :

> After many years of collecting,  Im tired of moving it all
>
> So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
> pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that
> wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.
>
> So if there is anyone out there starting out and wants what I have I will
> gladly hand it over to them free of charge.I would like to see this go
> to someone who doesn't have anything.
>
>
> I have apple, commodore, sun, x86 you name it I got it.  about  4
> truckloads full if not more.
>
> Im located in Mid Michigan
>
> Steve
>

Giving away my collection to someone just starting out in the hobby

[Digital Aeon via cctalk]

After many years of collecting,  Im tired of moving it all

So ive picked out 4 or 5 systems that mean alot to me.And i want to
pass the rest of the collection onto someone starting out in the hobby that
wouldnt otherwise have the funds to get some of the stuff I have.

So if there is anyone out there starting out and wants what I have I will
gladly hand it over to them free of charge.I would like to see this go
to someone who doesn't have anything.


I have apple, commodore, sun, x86 you name it I got it.  about  4
truckloads full if not more.

Im located in Mid Michigan

Steve

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Huw Davies via cctalk]

> On 13 Oct 2017, at 18:15, Peter Coghlan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I also have at least one 4GB disk (RZ28 or RZ29? I can't remember) which
> works fine once it gets going but needs a tap or a quick twist to get
> it going when it is trying to spin up.  Not too practical for installing
> in a machine with the cover on though.

RZ28 - 2G
RZ29 - 4G

More useless information clattering around in my brain :-(

Huw Davies   | e-mail: huw.dav...@kerberos.davies.net.au
Melbourne| "If soccer was meant to be played in the
Australia| air, the sky would be painted green" 

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Peter Coghlan via cctalk]

Douglas Taylor wrote:


I'm trying to bring up an Alpha machine, a 3000-300, the hardware is 
working fine, but I have some questions-


The system disk is an RZ26 (1.06GB) and I installed the OS and one 
layered product and the disk is full.  How much disk space is needed for 
8.4?




I have several of those disks, some in Storageworks bricks.  Back in the
VMS V7 era, I thought they would be just right for installing a system
on and not much else.  On more than one occasion, just after I had
everything set up on it just the way I wanted it, the disk started clocking
errors and shortly after that, it died in clunk-clunk-clunk mode :-(

I'd suggest looking for another disk that isn't an RZ26.

I also have at least one 4GB disk (RZ28 or RZ29? I can't remember) which
works fine once it gets going but needs a tap or a quick twist to get
it going when it is trying to spin up.  Not too practical for installing
in a machine with the cover on though.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan

Re: DEC Alpha 3000 and OpenVMS 8.4

[Jason Howe via cctalk]

I have 8.4 running on a DEC 3000 as well.  SSH works fine for me.  I 
think I have a 4GB system disk and have all kinds of extra software 
installed.  It's currently on the shelf, so I can't tell exactly how 
much space I'm using -- but erm, I'd look for at least a 4GB drive ;)


I've wanted to upgrade to a 68pin drive myself, but there's just no room 
in the case for a drive + adapter, so you're kinda looking at an 
external drive cabinet at that point.


--Jason


On 10/12/2017 09:50 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

The system can actually run stock 8.4?  I believe that at least the latest 8.4 
release from VSI requires a 21264 CPU.

IIRC, you can make it work with a 68-pin drive, but you may need an adapter 
with active termination on the pins that get dropped.  I’m pretty sure I had 
something like this going on one of my early Alpha’s.  Though it might have 
been going the other way.

Question, have you tried SSH under 8.4?  My XP1000 is still running 8.3, and 
TCPIP 5.6-9.  I’ve found that I can no longer SSH into the system from my Mac, 
as the version the VMS system is running is unsupported.

Zane



On Oct 12, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk  
wrote:

I'm trying to bring up an Alpha machine, a 3000-300, the hardware is working 
fine, but I have some questions-

The system disk is an RZ26 (1.06GB) and I installed the OS and one layered 
product and the disk is full.  How much disk space is needed for 8.4?

There is a power regulator next to the CPU chip and it runs pretty hot, I 
measured the heat sink at 140 deg F.  Is this normal?  The chip is LT 1083 CP.

Can I use 68 pin SCSI drives in this computer, is there an adapter to go from 
68 to 50 pins that would work?

Doug

Re: A Mystery

[Holm Tiffe via cctalk]

Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:

> On 12/10/17 21:10, Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote:
> 
> This thread is becoming a little confusing. The VAXstation II/RC was a 
> VAXstation II in a pedestal enclosure
> and differed from a normal VAXstation II in only one way: some of the 
> backplane slots had glue in them.
> (OK, two ways, since apparently DEC couldn't be bothered to build a 
> special backplane with fewer slots
> but did think it made sense to produce a new badge with "/RC" on it :-)).
> 
> It used a KA630 board just like any other VAXstation II.
> 
> >
> > As far as I remember there where some restrictions in the cache memory
> > controller that prevented the use of virtual memory on that restricted
> > KA620 CPU, not the CPU chip itself.
> 
> Now the KA620 was a board that used a modified 78032 uV2 chip
> (which I *think* might have been called the 78R32). It differed from
> the 78032 in the way it handled page tables (and it may have differed in
> other ways too). The intention was to ship something that simply could
> not be supported by VMS. Since the limitation was in silicon, there was
> nothing that a customer could do to get themselves a cheap VMS box.
> The development effort presumably cost a bit more than bunging some
> glue in a few backplane slots, but the ROI was probably greater too :-)
> 
> > I have an ISA Card with a "VAX-Brick" on it, but that was a later
> > Version with an ordinary CVAX, Cache, SCSI and Network inside w/o those
> > restrictions.  Usually that was meant to run VAXELN.
> 
> The VAX Brick (or VAX 4000-50 iirc, that's fifty ... not a typo for five 
> hundred) was
> a full VAX. It was supposed to be an upgrade for the VAX 4000-200.
> It replaced the CPU and memory in the original system.
> One of the few VAXes I'm pretty sure I've never seen in real life.
> It was intended to run OpenVMS. I've no idea whether it also ran Ultrix.
> 
> Antonio
> 
> 
> -- 
> Antonio Carlini
> arcarl...@iee.org

I meant that brick:
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-3.jpg
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-1.jpg
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/VAX/rtVAX300-internal-12jpg


on those boards:

http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-ISA.jpg
http://www.tiffe.de/Robotron/PDP-VAX/rtVAX300/rtVAX-VME.jpg

which contains an CVAX.

Regards,
Holm
-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741