[cctalk] PALM assembler (IBM 5110)
There is a note from Christian Corti last updated 2017: "..assembler listing generated with AS V1.41 from Alfred Arnold. ...which I have added a code generator for the PALM processor." I believe I've found a V1.42 of this on github. But the 5110 support is not listed in the github or pre-packaged builds. If Corti is available to help resurrect the notes on doing this, or if is more familiar with AS and can help get things going? Thanks! Steve
[cctalk] Re: Finding tar block size.
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:14 PM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Trying to tar a directory and transfer it to my AT 7300 (SVR2 unix). > Tar -tf works fine on the Mac OSX, but when I copy it over the Unix (not > gnu) tar gives me a: > > Tar: blocksize = 20 > directory checksum error > > When I try to tar -tf the file. Which usually means the block size is off. > > Any way I can check to see what the block size is on a modern system > (like a Mac)? tar -tvf doesn't seem to tell me. > All tar files are the same... except when they are different. MacOS uses libarchive tar. This version of tar creates the most modern tar files from the mid 90s. However, System V r2 pre-dates that. There's a lot of different tar formats, that are almost the same. I'm guessing that --format pax might work, but it might not. --format ustar like is the most interchangeable format, and will likely work. It's the least-restrictive format that will most likely work. --format v7 will almost certainly work, but has more restrictions that might run into, most likely its inability to use anything except numeric IDs. Warner
[cctalk] Re: Finding tar block size.
On 10/11/22 4:14 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Trying to tar a directory and transfer it to my AT 7300 (SVR2 unix). Tar -tf works fine on the Mac OSX, but when I copy it over the Unix (not gnu) tar gives me a: I suspect the differences between the tar on OSX and SysV R2 are between non-trivial and significant. There /may/ be some command line options that you can add to tar on OSX to make something that SysV R2 will read. Maybe someone else here knows the answer. If not, I'd re-ask your question on the TUHS mailing list where there are more people who will probably know the command options nearly off the tip of their fingers. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 10:49 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut press-fit into it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more folks with a 3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience. Got a photo of the part Vince? Bob Armstrong sent some pictures from Jack, which helped my find the photos I knew were online somewhere: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/adding-a-programmers-console-to-a-pdp-8-a.75942/#post-921828 Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
https://www.yeggi.com/q/pdp+8/
[cctalk] seeking: vme chassis, in seattle
hi folks, i'm looking for a vme chassis. i have a we 321sb vme cpu card (derivative of a 3b2) and it wants to run! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3b2-vme.jpg not super picky about the details but if it matches aesthetically that would be neat. should be functional, i'd rather not start another electronics project right now. also interested in peripheral cards. ideally, somewhere in seattle that's reasonably accessible by transit, or if you're willing to ship that would work too. thanks! -- æstrid smith (she/her) =<[ c y b e r ]>= antique telephone collectors association member #4870
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 10/11/2022 12:37 PM, geneb via cctalk wrote: Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural. I wonder if a heat-set insert would allow you to replicate the original design... You mean in the metal, or the plastic? In the plastic, an insert would be more durable, but then again it would be another part you'd have to stock, rather than print. I was referring to the plastic. A PEM fastener would do the same job in metal. #6-32 heat set inserts are very cheap, even on Amazon. (less than $20 for 100 of them) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Finding tar block size.
Trying to tar a directory and transfer it to my AT 7300 (SVR2 unix). Tar -tf works fine on the Mac OSX, but when I copy it over the Unix (not gnu) tar gives me a: Tar: blocksize = 20 directory checksum error When I try to tar -tf the file. Which usually means the block size is off. Any way I can check to see what the block size is on a modern system (like a Mac)? tar -tvf doesn't seem to tell me. Thanks! C
[cctalk] Re: Apple G5 Rebuild
Thank you for all the responses to my query - they're really helpful. I'm usually pretty handy with Google but must have lost the plot this day - I was trying "pmg5 build" - doh. Kevin Parker -Original Message- From: Kevin Parker via cctalk Sent: Monday, 10 October 2022 17:15 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Kevin Parker Subject: [cctalk] Apple G5 Rebuild Hoping there's an Apple enthusiast out there somewhere please. A friend gave me a PM G5 which I'd love to add to the Apple corner of my collection. Must admit I love the G5 case. Problem is the internals are in a million pieces but everything seems to be there. Its not a basket case, more like a bucket case because I took the side off and basically poured it all out. My options are. > Toss it > Use the case for an ATX conversion > Use it for a letter box > Have a crack at fixing it. I like having a crack at fixing things first. I'm a preservationist first. Problem is my GoogleFoo can't find any diagrams, illustrations etc on how the internals are put together and I'm hoping some Apple person out there might have something or be able to point me somewhere. (I did find some photos at https://www.overclock.net/threads/power-mac-g5-build.1452312/ for a twin CPU model but I need more detail for a single chip 2.0 GHz PowerPC 970MP (G5) model.) Thank you. Kevin Parker
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 12:27 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need for one machine) from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that. Sure. Though you still need a technical drawing, which "comes with" the 3D printer (or other CNC) design. Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 12:37 PM, geneb via cctalk wrote: Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural. I wonder if a heat-set insert would allow you to replicate the original design... You mean in the metal, or the plastic? In the plastic, an insert would be more durable, but then again it would be another part you'd have to stock, rather than print. Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D model of the part and print a few of them for testing. Here's a pointer to mine: https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending on left vs right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the other. Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural. I wonder if a heat-set insert would allow you to replicate the original design... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
Definitely! Easy-peasey. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:28, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 8:23 PM Wayne S via cctalk > wrote: >> >> A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of >> those in an hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think. > > I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need for one machine) > from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things > you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap > and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that. > > -tony
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 8:23 PM Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > > A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of > those in an hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think. I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need for one machine) from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that. -tony
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of those in an hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:17, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk > wrote: > > On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: >> If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D >> model of the part and print a few of them for testing. > > Here's a pointer to mine: > https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php > https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg > > The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending on > left vs right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the > other. > > I could swear there was a recent (in the last year) conversation with Michael > Thompson and others about this on VCForum, but it must have been before the > VCForum site moved, as the search tool didn't find it. > > Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a > nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a > triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural. > > A recessed screw in the KC8-A screws into the nut from the bottom to attach > the panel on each side. > >Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D model of the part and print a few of them for testing. Here's a pointer to mine: https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack. Depending on left vs right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the other. I could swear there was a recent (in the last year) conversation with Michael Thompson and others about this on VCForum, but it must have been before the VCForum site moved, as the search tool didn't find it. Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent. I've drawn it as a triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural. A recessed screw in the KC8-A screws into the nut from the bottom to attach the panel on each side. Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 10/11/2022 10:08 AM, Tony Duell wrote: On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the recessed Allen screw. Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from a metal block would be a lot stronger. The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut press-fit into it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more folks with a 3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience. Got a photo of the part Vince? tnx. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:12 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps? And not everyone has a 3D printer. Moreover, a small lathe/mill capable of making that sorr of part is probably cheaper than a 3D printer and will last a lot longer. A good and usable 3D printer is going to be a lot cheaper than even the worst imported table-top metal working lathe. The mills you can buy for a simliar price won't cut non-ferrous metals for crap, and won't cut ferrous metals at all. I would posit that more people have 3D printers at home than machine tools. :) If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D model of the part and print a few of them for testing. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 2022-10-11 11:14 a.m., Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:12 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps? And not everyone has a 3D printer. Moreover, a small lathe/mill capable of making that sorr of part is probably cheaper than a 3D printer and will last a lot longer. -tony Well at one time you could find a small machine shop, to do all this stuff. Other than cheap PCB's, I am not sure if we are better off now than in 1975. Ben.
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 10:08 AM, Tony Duell wrote: On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the recessed Allen screw. Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from a metal block would be a lot stronger. The DEC part is essentially bent bar stock, with a nut press-fit into it. Also easy to to do if you have the tooling. I know a lot more folks with a 3D printer than I do the folks with metalwork experience. Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:12 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps? And not everyone has a 3D printer. Moreover, a small lathe/mill capable of making that sorr of part is probably cheaper than a 3D printer and will last a lot longer. -tony
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
Not everyone has a fully tooled machine shop, perhaps? On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 10:09 AM Tony Duell via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk > wrote: > > > Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular > > blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the > > recessed Allen screw. > > Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from > a metal block would be a lot stronger. > > -tony >
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:04 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: > Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular > blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the > recessed Allen screw. Why on earth would you 3D print something like that? Machining it from a metal block would be a lot stronger. -tony
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 8:17 AM, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote: Bill Degnan mbilldeg...@gmail.com> wrote: Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front panel to the chassis? Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons and 7 segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The older version was pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop panels" used. That didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel mounts are super easy to break. There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The brackets screwed to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside contour of the KC8. There's a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to the KC8, and there's a small hole drilled in the bottom of both sides of the KC8 so you could access the screw from the outside. Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the KC8's recessed Allen screw. Vince
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 8:17 AM, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote: Bill Degnan mbilldeg...@gmail.com> wrote: Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front panel to the chassis? Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons and 7 segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The older version was pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop panels" used. That didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel mounts are super easy to break. There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The brackets screwed to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside contour of the KC8. There's a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to the KC8, and there's a small hole drilled in the bottom of both sides of the KC8 so you could access the screw from the outside. Those are the ones. The 3D printed parts are essentially triangular blocks that mount to the rack and have a drilled and tapped hole for the recessed Allen screw. Vince
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On 2022-10-11 8:16 a.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Yes, eBay charges the seller the same commission on shipping as it does for the item price, and the taxes charged to the buyer as well. Sometimes if you contact the buyer and ask them nicely if they can add a cheaper shipping option they will oblige you, but some can't use UPS or FedEx for practical reasons (no drop-off point near them, for example). Bottom line though, you aren't going to be able to get something like this for less than $10 shipping. Tack on a extra 0. Only china gives under $10 shipping. Sellam Ben.
[cctalk] Re: Apple G5 Rebuild
Why would a paid link come up when searching for something vintage computery? The results are not tailored to suit the searcher, but the advertisers, regardless of the search terms. Hence: trash. And you're not going to convince me otherwise. Google is the Deathstar of the internet. Sellam On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:59 AM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2022-10-10 5:01 p.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > I blame Google: it's complete trash now. > > > > Sellam > > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:40 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> On 10/10/22 10:33 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > >>> 4 words is not "Google-fu". > >> > >> Sometimes knowing /which/ /words/ to search for is the problem. > >> > >> I've also seen Google return extremely different search results for > >> different people. > >> > >> Let's assume good intention and benign mistake. No need to even > >> passively insult someone. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Grant. . . . > >> unix || die > >> > > It is not trash. PAID sites get first pick in sorting, I suspect. > On the tablet,it picks what it thinks you want."neeps and haggis" might > get you "need a bag" rather than a scottish dinner > Using the other search engine. > Now Amazon and ebay, are trash. > Ben. > >
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
From the USPS Domestic Mail Manual, section 170, subsection 4.1(i): "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media." Sellam On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:23 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > On the other side of the coin... I once tried to sell a couple > > Chilton's car manuals. The shipping price I quoted was the cost > > of a "If it fits, it ships" USPS envelope. eBay refused to let > > me do it claiming the shipping charges were too high. I haven't > > tried selling anything on eBay since. (and I have a lot of stuff > > that just screams to be sold there!!) > > "Media mail" is the only practical option for those. > > And, blank, or user-written diskettes don't qualify; according to the > post-office, only commercially written disks. >
[cctalk] Re: Apple G5 Rebuild
On 2022-10-10 5:01 p.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: I blame Google: it's complete trash now. Sellam On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 2:40 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 10/10/22 10:33 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: 4 words is not "Google-fu". Sometimes knowing /which/ /words/ to search for is the problem. I've also seen Google return extremely different search results for different people. Let's assume good intention and benign mistake. No need to even passively insult someone. -- Grant. . . . unix || die It is not trash. PAID sites get first pick in sorting, I suspect. On the tablet,it picks what it thinks you want."neeps and haggis" might get you "need a bag" rather than a scottish dinner Using the other search engine. Now Amazon and ebay, are trash. Ben.
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:25 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk wrote: >> If the seller has a few “worthless” diskettes laying around, he can >> include one in each case and now the package qualifies under media mail >> rates. I won’t speak to the ethics of it, but it is technically >> allowed per USPS’ rules. > > According to USPS, that is not acceptable for blank, nor even user-written > diskettes. > > However, AOL disks would be acceptable! > Finally, a good use for AOL disks : ) Try as I might, I can find no restriction on mailing user-written media. Blank media, no. But I believe user-written is okay as it’s “prerecorded”. https://pe.usps.com/Archive/PDF/DMMArchive20050106/173.pdf "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media."
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
If the seller has a few “worthless” diskettes laying around, he can include one in each case and now the package qualifies under media mail rates. I won’t speak to the ethics of it, but it is technically allowed per USPS’ rules. According to USPS, that is not acceptable for blank, nor even user-written diskettes. However, AOL disks would be acceptable! On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Tony Duell wrote: When did AOL send out 8" disks? The box does not have to be packed full. A single CD-ROM or 3.5" disk in each box for 10 8" is OK.
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
>Tony Duell >Is that the 3U (5.25" high) one? Yes.. >If so, there's a metal sleeve that is screwed in the rack. Oh yeah, that would make sense. There was a QBUS chassis that worked the same way. Was that a BA11-N? I forget - too many years have gone by :) Bob
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
If the seller has a few “worthless” diskettes laying around, he can include one in each case and now the package qualifies under media mail rates. I won’t speak to the ethics of it, but it is technically allowed per USPS’ rules. According to USPS, that is not acceptable for blank, nor even user-written diskettes. However, AOL disks would be acceptable! On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Tony Duell wrote: When did AOL send out 8" disks? They didn't. But, a CD-ROM, a 5.25, or a 3.5" disk will fit inside an 8" box. It doesn't have to be a tight fit.
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:34 PM Robert Armstrong wrote: > Don't know what the BA11-L (that's the short box for the 11/04) did. I > don't think it had slides, but I'm not sure. > Is that the 3U (5.25" high) one? If so, there's a metal sleeve that is screwed in the rack. The entire chasis pulls out the front, the boards go in from the left side. Again you rarely have to remoev the frontpanel. -tony
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
> Tony Duell >I wonder if that's because on the 11/04 and 11/34 the boards go in >from the top of the box whereas on the 8/a the boards go in from the >front. Therefore you have to remove the frontpanel to insert/remove >boards on the 8/a but you don't on the 11's. The 11's panel is rarely >removed. Yeah, kind of. I actually have an 11/04 too, and the console there just screws on to the front of the BA11-K. Since the BA11-K has slides and pulls out of the rack and (as you said) the boards are accessed from the top, there's no need to ever remove the front panel. Don't know what the BA11-L (that's the short box for the 11/04) did. I don't think it had slides, but I'm not sure. The BA8-C, OTOH, doesn't have slides and (as you said) the cards go in from the front. So you need to remove the front panel anytime you want access to the cards, which is a major pain. Bob
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:25 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk wrote: > > If the seller has a few “worthless” diskettes laying around, he can > > include one in each case and now the package qualifies under media mail > > rates. I won’t speak to the ethics of it, but it is technically > > allowed per USPS’ rules. > > According to USPS, that is not acceptable for blank, nor even user-written > diskettes. > > However, AOL disks would be acceptable! When did AOL send out 8" disks? -tony
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 4:17 PM Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote: >Annoyingly the PDP-11/04 and 34, which had a panel that was mechanically > nearly identical, used an entirely differently mounting scheme, so there's no > help there. > I wonder if that's because on the 11/04 and 11/34 the boards go in from the top of the box whereas on the 8/a the boards go in from the front. Therefore you have to remove the frontpanel to insert/remove boards on the 8/a but you don't on the 11's. The 11's panel is rarely removed. -tony
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk wrote: If the seller has a few “worthless” diskettes laying around, he can include one in each case and now the package qualifies under media mail rates. I won’t speak to the ethics of it, but it is technically allowed per USPS’ rules. According to USPS, that is not acceptable for blank, nor even user-written diskettes. However, AOL disks would be acceptable!
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
Bob
Yup that's the one I have, thanks. At least I am not alone. I bet this
topic has come up in the past here.
Bill
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:17 AM Robert Armstrong via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >Bill Degnan mbilldeg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
> >panel to the chassis?
>
> Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons
> and 7 segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The
> older version was pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop
> panels" used. That didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel
> mounts are super easy to break.
>
> There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The
> brackets screwed to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside
> contour of the KC8. There's a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to
> the KC8, and there's a small hole drilled in the bottom of both sides of
> the KC8 so you could access the screw from the outside.
>
>Annoyingly the PDP-11/04 and 34, which had a panel that was
> mechanically nearly identical, used an entirely differently mounting
> scheme, so there's no help there.
>
> I've never seen one of these brackets nor a mechanical drawing for one,
> but if you find out anything please let me know. I have an 8/A in the
> garage with the front panel held on by wire ties ('cause I don't have
> anything better!).
>
> Bob
>
>
>
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On Tue, 11 Oct 2022, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On the other side of the coin... I once tried to sell a couple Chilton's car manuals. The shipping price I quoted was the cost of a "If it fits, it ships" USPS envelope. eBay refused to let me do it claiming the shipping charges were too high. I haven't tried selling anything on eBay since. (and I have a lot of stuff that just screams to be sold there!!) "Media mail" is the only practical option for those. And, blank, or user-written diskettes don't qualify; according to the post-office, only commercially written disks.
[cctalk] Re: Apple G5 Rebuild
On 10/10/22 5:47 PM, Stuff Received via cctalk wrote: Indeed. Also, I have added more words and received more search results. One would expect the opposite. Google also tailors results to location and cookies. (I always search in private mode.) Not what it once was...(Sigh) Agreed all around with both you and Sellam. I have pontificated writing my own search engine. But I've never found neither sufficient round-2-its nor motivation to do so. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
>Bill Degnan mbilldeg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front
>panel to the chassis?
Assuming you're talking about the KC8-A (the panel with the push buttons and
7 segment displays) then I think there were at least two versions. The older
version was pressed onto those plastic ball things that all DEC "pop panels"
used. That didn't work very well, because those plastic pop panel mounts are
super easy to break.
There was a later version that mounted with two metal brackets. The brackets
screwed to the rack rails and were bent to conform to the inside contour of the
KC8. There's a setscrew in each bracket that attached it to the KC8, and
there's a small hole drilled in the bottom of both sides of the KC8 so you
could access the screw from the outside.
Annoyingly the PDP-11/04 and 34, which had a panel that was mechanically
nearly identical, used an entirely differently mounting scheme, so there's no
help there.
I've never seen one of these brackets nor a mechanical drawing for one, but
if you find out anything please let me know. I have an 8/A in the garage with
the front panel held on by wire ties ('cause I don't have anything better!).
Bob
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
> On Oct 11, 2022, at 1:51 AM, D. Resor via cctalk > wrote: > > Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good clean > used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of plastic like these? > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 > > I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally > crumbling. > > The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I find the > price of shipping outrageous. > > Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. > > I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. > > Thank You > > Don Resor > As others have mentioned, “dimensional weight” is a thing, though usually only applies once a package is over 12”x12”x12”, at least with USPS. However, this may just be the case of a clueless eBayer*. The fact they have more than 10 available, plus the Make Offer button, suggests they might want to move these. I’d just reach out to the seller and ask him for his best price with shipping on as many as you’d like; he can shoot you a private offer immediately. I find calculated costs go askew when choosing multiples of an item if the seller hasn’t set it up correctly. If the seller has a few “worthless” diskettes laying around, he can include one in each case and now the package qualifies under media mail rates. I won’t speak to the ethics of it, but it is technically allowed per USPS’ rules. *As a seller, eBay has really messed up their listing interface. Unless I specifically choose a flat rate option, or offer only a single service, I really have no idea what the buyer is going to see for shipping, especially if they have a PO box. In an attempt to simply things for new users, they have eliminated a number of useful options (which would reduce buyers’ costs), or buried them in some obscure location. My wife, who rarely sells, has a totally different listing interface than I do. In a recent case of wanting to offer something “for pickup only”, the only way to choose that option was via their app on a smartphone. It’s a mess. -C
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/11/2022 6:16 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: I have a pretty good 3d printer, I.can at least try. I imagine the standard front panel cover clips should be easy enough, but the pdp8a needs something stronger with screws and bolts, right? I need to check the enclosure hardware documents Once you've printed one, it might be possible to cast additional ones more quickly and the result might be stronger. That metal bezel with the two PCB inside is rather heavy for a plastic mount. Vince On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:37 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 10/10/2022 11:00 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig design with does not prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where might be buried on this site? https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php I tried to do one here: https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php but I haven't actually printed or used it yet. (I have the original parts, and no free access to a 3D printer at the moment.) Vince On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front panel to the chassis? Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a console to the chassis? I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it up and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front panel to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the ON/OFF panel to the chassis. AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$ Thanks Bill
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
I have contacted the seller, and kindly asked as a gentlemanly as I possibly could. I'll see what happens Don Resor If the seller will use PirateShip that can knock down the price of shipping quite a bit, UPS and USPS only. Good news is it, unlike so many others, can actually give you a PDF that is 4" x 6" for a thermal label printer without hassle. Charging fees on shipping is eBay's way of stopping people from listing items for $1 with $49 shipping to get around paying ebay fees. - Ethan
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
I have contacted the seller, and kindly asked as a gentlemanly as I possibly could. I'll see what happens Don Resor -Original Message- From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 7:16 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Sellam Abraham Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases Yes, eBay charges the seller the same commission on shipping as it does for the item price, and the taxes charged to the buyer as well. Sometimes if you contact the buyer and ask them nicely if they can add a cheaper shipping option they will oblige you, but some can't use UPS or FedEx for practical reasons (no drop-off point near them, for example). Bottom line though, you aren't going to be able to get something like this for less than $10 shipping. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
I have a long shelf filled with boxes of 8" floppy diskettes. Data on many and a bunch of NOS sealed product I have held onto. From the crazy asking prices I am seeing on eBay (As if they are collector's items/antiques), I could sell them by the box for the same price Xerox charged during the 1980s and look reasonably priced compared to other sellers. I look at this stuff now and think how did I manage to amass so much stuff. I've also misplaced my Xerox 820-II. I found the Xerox u07 8" DD FDD with the 8" HDD Combo box, but where did I put the rest of it, ugh. Don Resor -Original Message- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 7:01 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Bill Gunshannon Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases On 10/11/22 09:17, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > Of you're near kennettsquare, PAI have a few > I have piles of them. Unfortunately, they are all full of disks loaded with data. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
Yes, eBay charges the seller the same commission on shipping as it does for the item price, and the taxes charged to the buyer as well. Sometimes if you contact the buyer and ask them nicely if they can add a cheaper shipping option they will oblige you, but some can't use UPS or FedEx for practical reasons (no drop-off point near them, for example). Bottom line though, you aren't going to be able to get something like this for less than $10 shipping. Sellam On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 7:08 AM D. Resor via cctalk wrote: > There is the ability to ship via Media Mail for documentation. I try to > buy documents this way, as well as good ole vinyl records. > > Several years ago eBay decided they wanted to "profit" from shipping > costs. This was supposedly to alleviate shipping cost gouging. I doubt > this has helped much. > > Don Resor > > -Original Message- > From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 6:59 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: Bill Gunshannon > Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases > > > eBay has always been rather stupid when it comes to shipping. > I have seen many people who are actually making their profit from the > shipping rather than the actual item for sale. > > On the other side of the coin... I once tried to sell a couple Chilton's > car manuals. The shipping price I quoted was the cost of a "If it fits, it > ships" USPS envelope. eBay refused to let me do it claiming the shipping > charges were too high. I haven't tried selling anything on eBay since. > (and I have a lot of stuff that just screams to be sold there!!) > > bill > > > >
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
Unfortunately I am in Los Angeles Thanks anyway Don Resor -Original Message- From: Bill Degnan via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 6:18 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Bill Degnan Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases Of you're near kennettsquare, PAI have a few On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 9:01 AM geneb via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022, D. Resor via cctalk wrote: > > > Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good > > clean used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of > > plastic like > these? > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 > > > > I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally > > crumbling. > > > > The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I > > find > the > > price of shipping outrageous. > > > > Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. > > > > I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. > > > > Don, it's not the weight, it's the size. They use a thing called > "dimensional weight" for large, light packages. (and I agree, it's > stupidly expensive) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of > its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value > database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! >
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
There is the ability to ship via Media Mail for documentation. I try to buy documents this way, as well as good ole vinyl records. Several years ago eBay decided they wanted to "profit" from shipping costs. This was supposedly to alleviate shipping cost gouging. I doubt this has helped much. Don Resor -Original Message- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 6:59 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Bill Gunshannon Subject: [cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases eBay has always been rather stupid when it comes to shipping. I have seen many people who are actually making their profit from the shipping rather than the actual item for sale. On the other side of the coin... I once tried to sell a couple Chilton's car manuals. The shipping price I quoted was the cost of a "If it fits, it ships" USPS envelope. eBay refused to let me do it claiming the shipping charges were too high. I haven't tried selling anything on eBay since. (and I have a lot of stuff that just screams to be sold there!!) bill
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On 10/11/22 09:17, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Of you're near kennettsquare, PAI have a few I have piles of them. Unfortunately, they are all full of disks loaded with data. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On 10/11/22 09:00, geneb via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 10 Oct 2022, D. Resor via cctalk wrote: Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good clean used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of plastic like these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally crumbling. The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I find the price of shipping outrageous. Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. Don, it's not the weight, it's the size. They use a thing called "dimensional weight" for large, light packages. (and I agree, it's stupidly expensive) eBay has always been rather stupid when it comes to shipping. I have seen many people who are actually making their profit from the shipping rather than the actual item for sale. On the other side of the coin... I once tried to sell a couple Chilton's car manuals. The shipping price I quoted was the cost of a "If it fits, it ships" USPS envelope. eBay refused to let me do it claiming the shipping charges were too high. I haven't tried selling anything on eBay since. (and I have a lot of stuff that just screams to be sold there!!) bill
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
Of you're near kennettsquare, PAI have a few On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 9:01 AM geneb via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022, D. Resor via cctalk wrote: > > > Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good clean > > used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of plastic like > these? > > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 > > > > I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally > > crumbling. > > > > The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I find > the > > price of shipping outrageous. > > > > Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. > > > > I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. > > > > Don, it's not the weight, it's the size. They use a thing called > "dimensional weight" for large, light packages. (and I agree, it's > stupidly expensive) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of > its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! >
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
I have a pretty good 3d printer, I.can at least try. I imagine the standard front panel cover clips should be easy enough, but the pdp8a needs something stronger with screws and bolts, right? I need to check the enclosure hardware documents On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:37 AM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 10/10/2022 11:00 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: > > theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig design with does not > > prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where > > might be buried on this site? > > https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php > > I tried to do one here: > https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php > but I haven't actually printed or used it yet. (I have the original > parts, and no free access to a 3D printer at the moment.) > > Vince > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front > >> panel to the chassis? > >> > >> Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a > >> console to the chassis? > >> > >> I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it > up > >> and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front > panel > >> to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the > ON/OFF > >> panel to the chassis. > >> > >> AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$ > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Bill > >> > >
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
On Mon, 10 Oct 2022, D. Resor via cctalk wrote: Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good clean used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of plastic like these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally crumbling. The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I find the price of shipping outrageous. Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. Don, it's not the weight, it's the size. They use a thing called "dimensional weight" for large, light packages. (and I agree, it's stupidly expensive) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskette storage cases
Don...it's the package size not the weight. On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 2:52 AM D. Resor via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good clean > used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of plastic like > these? > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 > > I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally > crumbling. > > The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I find > the > price of shipping outrageous. > > Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. > > I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. > > Thank You > > Don Resor > >
[cctalk] 8" floppy diskette storage cases
Does anyone have, or know of a reasonably priced supplier of good clean used, or new 8" floppy diskette boxes? The kind made of plastic like these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/134258177087 I have one 8" box with Xerox software in which the plastic literally crumbling. The price this seller wants for the case itself is reasonable but I find the price of shipping outrageous. Total shipping price for three boxes is shown to be $21.35. I may be crazy, but this seems nuts for something so light. Thank You Don Resor
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
On 10/10/2022 11:00 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig design with does not prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where might be buried on this site? https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php I tried to do one here: https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php but I haven't actually printed or used it yet. (I have the original parts, and no free access to a 3D printer at the moment.) Vince On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front panel to the chassis? Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a console to the chassis? I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it up and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front panel to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the ON/OFF panel to the chassis. AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$ Thanks Bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware
theres 3d print models made of them theres the orig design with does not prit very well and a modified design thats better list forget where might be buried on this site? https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/repair.php On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Is there a 3D print gcode for the hardware that connects a PDP8a front > panel to the chassis? > > Is there anyone who has a spare clips/clamps hardware to attach a PDP 8a > console to the chassis? > > I picked up the donated PDP 8a mentioned earlier on this list, I got it up > and running. I need to track down the hardware to attach the front panel > to the chassis. I do have spares of the hardware that attaches the ON/OFF > panel to the chassis. > > AS with all "free" donations it's the final mile that costs the big $$ > > Thanks > > Bill >
