Coming from a design, not programming, background, I embraced Coldfusion for
all the well-known reasons: easy to use, easy to learn, easy, easy...you get
the idea.
With the advent of more advanced features, everywhere I go I see a big push for
moving Coldfusion and Coldfusion development into
what's really wrong with a procedural approach
Nothing. With the appropriate combo of dev skill-set / site complexity /
time-to-launch / etc, there's nothing wrong with well-written procedural
code.
I'll let others tackle the other question(s).
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Irvin Gomez
wouldn't it make far more sense to move into something more popular
like PHP, .Net, etc. right away?
In a word. Yes. Unless you live in California, which seems to be the only
place where CF jobs seem to be these days.
Second and final question: what's really wrong with a procedural
Unless you live in California, which seems to be the only place where CF
jobs seem to be these days.
Huh? http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=coldfusionl=
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=coldfusionl=
Washington, DC (231)
Baltimore, MD (59)
Charlotte, NC (50)
Omaha, NE (46)
Chicago, IL (41)
Arlington,
Washington, DC (231)
Baltimore, MD (59)
Charlotte, NC (50)
Omaha, NE (46)
Chicago, IL (41)
Arlington, VA (41)
Los Angeles, CA (39)
Boston, MA (39)
New York, NY (38)
Columbia, MD (35)
Cleveland, OH (34)
Huntsville, AL (29)
Reston, VA (28)
Atlanta, GA (28)
Minneapolis, MN (26)
...
well u have to learn what the employers want. And at the end of the day if
you are learning CF with the intent of getting contracts then you may well
have to learn all the complex OOP/framework stuff. For full-time jobs you
can get away with less, but not often as are required to work on
Wow. Whether you meant to or not you just made my point. Not about CA, but
about the dismal state of CF employment.
Total CF jobs: 2,382
Total PHP jobs: 21,015
Total .net jobs: 115,283
Total ruby jobs: 11,309
Total python jobs: 17,547
In each of the above (except ruby) there's more jobs in the
I'm a CF guy, have been for 13+ years.
I've been a primary CF'er from 1996 (or so) to present. So, for you and I
and many/most others on this list, the dismal state of CF employment ain't
too dismal.
Having said that, it seems clear that smart CF'ers will also become some
combo of DBA /
Somehow i agree with Irvin :)
I've been doing programming since Basica/GWBasic (that's somewhere in
early 90 or late 80),
and am proficient in coding Java, C++, Delphi, TSQL, PL/SQL and such...
What i love most from CF is it's easy to understand and can do things
in 3-4 LOC whereas other
Where is the link to the Mont St. Hilaire job :)
-Original Message-
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claude_Schn=E9egans [mailto:schneeg...@interneti=71?=
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?ue.com=3E?=]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:11 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
I also have done Pascal, Fortran, Basic, Cobol, Assembler... never got any
jobs doing that though :-)
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Duane Boudreau du...@sandybay.com wrote:
Where is the link to the Mont St. Hilaire job :)
-Original Message-
From:
I like to say that things like frameworks, OOP, design patterns, etc,
help solve problems. If you don't have problems, then don't look for
em. It's a good idea to be aware of what frameworks can provide for
for you, but if you are building small things that don't have the
problems of complexity
Whoa,
assembler.. back to the old days when moving to 16bit...
All ended with *W :)
Yeah, those are for hardcore jobs only...
I got several projects though :)
Rizal
At 09:29 PM 1/12/2011, you wrote:
I also have done Pascal, Fortran, Basic, Cobol, Assembler... never got any
jobs doing that
With the advent of more advanced features, everywhere I go I see a big
push for moving Coldfusion and Coldfusion development into very complicated
frameworks and OOP. The usual reason given is that not doing so runs the
risk of rendering the Coldfusion developer obsolete in the job marketplace.
Nah this was 8 bit 6502 assembler
Lda#$00
Sta$d020
Sta$d021
Commodore64 fans should know what that does :-)
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Rizal Firmansyah [mailto:rizal.firmans...@masrizal.com]
Sent: 12 January 2011 14:36
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest
I have been called about jobs in Nebraska, Massachussetts, Minnesota, Ohio,
Indiana, Tennessee, and there have been quite a few in Chicago (that's off
the top of my head)
-Original Message-
From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 08:03
To: cf-talk
Wow, the commodore!
International karate, right?
So, CF is a bless eh :)
Rizal
At 09:51 PM 1/12/2011, you wrote:
Nah this was 8 bit 6502 assembler
Lda#$00
Sta$d020
Sta$d021
Commodore64 fans should know what that does :-)
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Rizal Firmansyah
ColdFusion supports both approaches and sports a very powerful set of
capabilities. Don't really see the issue. I have had no problem staying
employed using CF for 12 years on the East Coast. When you start to
maintain a web property at more of an enterprise level you find yourself
want a more
Mike,
Companies in Omaha have been searching for multiple CF developers for months
(our unemployment rate in NE - 5.5%). The Midwest has plenty of CF jobs. We
are hiring for one.
-Mark
Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
Mike,
This number reflects accurately the CF market penetration in relation to the
other technologies. I wouldn't take it as a bad sign - just what I would
expect.
-Mark
Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
So... which one did you take?
Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com
-Original Message-
From: Eric Roberts [mailto:ow...@threeravensconsulting.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:55 AM
To:
Yeah, it looks like there's more out there than I expected, though still
very few compared to other languages. I was basing my opinion on what seems
to go through cf-jobs at a glance. Usually it seems it's all CA or DC,
though I stand corrected by a few people. Either way, it doesn't change the
Funny you should mention that game, International Karate+ was a game I
actually worked on, I wrote tape loader intro sequence :-)
I actually liked Assembler language to be honest, it is more about
understanding the memory map of the computer, where things are stored than
anything else, once you
Coming from a design, not programming, background, I embraced
Coldfusion for all the well-known reasons: easy to use, easy to learn,
easy, easy...you get the idea.
With the advent of more advanced features, everywhere I go I see a big
push for moving Coldfusion and Coldfusion
Thanks, everyone for all the different perspectives. I know that if I were
looking at coldfusion for the first time these days, with all the OOP and
framework talk dominating the 'airwaves', I'd probably go with PHP or something
else, because there is no real benefit to Coldfusion if the
sorry - this should have been a reply on the other thread. no idea how it ended
up here...
Thanks, everyone for all the different perspectives. I know that if I
were looking at coldfusion for the first time these days, with all the
OOP and framework talk dominating the 'airwaves', I'd
I'm probably going to embarass the s#$t out of myself now, but..
I wrote a painfully long, meandering, stream-of-consciousness blog post on this
a couple years ago. I was frustrated, angry, worried, and felt like after
years of trying, I had wasted a LOT of time.
and don't forget Archon ;-)
On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 21:58 +0700, Rizal Firmansyah wrote:
Wow, the commodore!
International karate, right?
So, CF is a bless eh :)
Rizal
At 09:51 PM 1/12/2011, you wrote:
Nah this was 8 bit 6502 assembler
Lda#$00
Sta$d020
Sta$d021
Hi, Teed...
Did you ever get your CF/jQuery/AJAX issues worked out?
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Teed Younger [mailto:teedyoun...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:39 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: trying to pass ajax complex strings within another form
After that I
After that I wanted to click the top submit button that submits
all
the other form elements to the action page. This of course
generates
Looks like your CF doesn't have access to createObject()
~|
Order the
Just another direction to think about is Flex.
I've been a CF'er full-time since 1996 (V 3.1), so believe me when I say
I LOVE CF!
Recently I've taken another look at Flex (after dismissing it in the
early days as ridiculously expensive). It is now VERY inexpensive and I
am blown away at how
Does anyone else feel ashamed for being a CF Developer for years (2001 v. 5.0)
and still not knowing (or using) these kinds of exterior apps/technologies?
*lowers head* I feel like I'm a beginning developer stuck in a time warp or
something... So much to look into, so little time, so many fun
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Irvin Gomez ir...@pixel69.com wrote:
Thanks, everyone for all the different perspectives. I know that if I were
looking at coldfusion for the first time these days, with all the OOP and
framework talk dominating the 'airwaves', I'd probably go with PHP or
Nope (although I have used custom and other frameworks and OO and
procedural coding methods)I learned a few things long ago that makes
life simpler...
1) Pay attention to, but don't dive into bleeding edge stuff without
good reason (paying client for example)
Although some of it becomes
I think if you were looking at CF for the first time these days,
you'd be looking at the features that were consistent with your skill set.
If you were a beginner, you'd probably be pretty happy that CF can
get
you up and writing web applications pretty darn quickly.
CF is a very
I've spent the past year or two incorporating jQuery
into my programming, mainly the AJAX functionality.
Everything I do (perhaps too much!) uses AJAX. It's just
become my paradigm for getting info from and onto pages,
working in conjunction with cfc functionality.
I mention this as I wondered
ColdFusion still makes the hard things easy. That hasn't changed,nor
will it at any point in the future. Yes, many enterprise levelapps are
written in some sort of framework, or the employer islooking for someone
versed in MVC architecture. This is a sign ofthe times;
Everyone deserves a second chance Marc :D
-Original Message-
From: Marc Funaro [mailto:subscripti...@advantex.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:55 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
I'm probably going to embarass the s#$t out of myself now,
Rick,
I agree with you in large part with one exception. We do a lot of financial
visualizations that would simply gasp and die in Ajax - even if we could
find the proper libraries for them. And it would also be hard to duplicate
the animation, opacity etc. But for 95% of things I'm with you -
Your first question:
Knowledge of frameworks and OOP does make you more employable, although so
does increased knowledge of nearly anything.
You second question:
Nothing is wrong with traditional ColdFusion programming. I agree with what
Ray Camden wrote in that frameworks can help solve
replies inline Rick
On Wed, 2011-01-12 at 12:45 -0500, Rick Faircloth wrote:
[sinp]
I mention this as I wondered about Flex, based on the
comment a few moments ago. I checked out a few examples
of Flex demos and didn't see anything, on a cursory
look, that I couldn't easily do (or
Mark,
Do you create your financial visualizations in Flex?
Is it the Flash part of the visualizations that performs
better than AJAX?
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:04 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is
Rick,
Yes we did... and yes it is the flash animation portion...
-Mark
Mark A. Kruger, MCSE, CFG
(402) 408-3733 ext 105
Skype: markakruger
www.cfwebtools.com
www.coldfusionmuse.com
www.necfug.com
-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:r...@whitestonemedia.com]
Sent:
I am going to answer the question you asked in the subject of the thread.
No. ColdFusion is not losing its biggest asset. To me, ColdFusion's
biggest asset is you, and Charlie and Dave and Rick and everyone else
on this list and other CF support lists. I think ColdFusion's biggest
asset is the
Everyone deserves a second chance Marc :D
A second chance to embarrass themselves? I'll take it! I learn a lot when the
high and mighty correct me :)
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
I think ColdFusion's biggest
asset is the community of developers who take it upon themselves to
help out newcomers to the language, as well as help to address complex
issues that even the most seasoned CF developer might encounter. Yea,
we bicker form time to time, but for the most part,
One of the the projects I started more recently is a rather small
framework called FreeAgent. The purpose of this particular project is to
create a system whereby an application can be easily designed to fit
into any of the existing MVC frameworks for ColdFusion, whether that's
FW/1, ColdBox,
Thanks for the feedback and perspective, Bryan!
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:br...@electricedgesystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:22 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?
replies inline Rick
On Wed, 2011-01-12
No Rick I didnt. Did you look at the application? Is there a way to post code
here without having huge lengths of text? I dont see any [code] tags.
Again, the issue is coming from have a form on the page that passes SESSION
variables. Then this jQuery code that displays a struct and array in
I agree with you 100% on the importance of community, Scott.
I'm what I consider a hacker programmer... no formal training.
(Only programming experience prior to CF was on my
1982 Radio Shack Color Computer with 4K of RAM and an audio
cassette player for holding programs... it was fun,
So basically, Flash's implementation of Ajax (generic
usage of the term) is faster than, say jQuery's?
Would that be accurate?
-Original Message-
From: Mark A. Kruger [mailto:mkru...@cfwebtools.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:41 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion
So basically, Flash's implementation of Ajax (generic
usage of the term) is faster than, say jQuery's?
Would that be accurate?
Not exactly, because Flash doesn't use AJAX.
But if the question is, does a Flash client fetch data more quickly
than AJAX, the answer is generally yes. Flash
I did, but I'm still not quite sure what you're trying
to accomplish with all this...not from a programmer's
point of view, but from the end-user's perspective.
What does this application do for the end user?
Anyway, when I tried to use the app, based on your
instructions, I get an error
AMF?
Thanks for the feedback, Dave!
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:48 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing its biggest asset?
So basically, Flash's implementation of Ajax (generic
usage of the
AMF?
ActionScript Message Format, aka Flash Remoting.
http://www.jamesward.com/2007/12/12/blazebench-why-you-want-amf-and-blazeds/
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA
Ok, fist things first. Dont know why the security error was being thrown. I
commented out:
cfdump var=#item# label=Item Name #itemName#
that line and it seems to be fine now.
Now, the application as a whole is simply for creating .html pages using this
page builder of sorts. Using user
Ok, first...
In the source of builderAction.cfm, let's change
one bit of Javascript (js) so we can get rid of an
error being thrown by the js.
A couple of lines beneath the html:
pstrongAlternate Part Numbers:/strong/p
You've got:
script language=javascript
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has an example they would be willing to share on
using jsTree with Coldfusion? I really dont know php and the example for the
database driven example is confusing.
Thanks,
tom
~|
Order the
Alright, changed and uploaded to the server. Were you able to get a feel for
what I'm trying to do based on my last post?..lol
Ok, first...
In the source of builderAction.cfm, let's change
one bit of Javascript (js) so we can get rid of an
error being thrown by the js.
A couple of lines
Yes, I believe I see what you're trying to do.
I'm getting this error now:
document.getElementById('results') is null
which means that you don't have an element on the
page, such as a div with the id of results:
div id=results/div
Should that be on there somewhere?
Rick
-Original
It's been awhile but isn't that the screen and border colours?
Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/
-Original Message-
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 13 January 2011 1:52 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest
Well there was a div on the original action.cfm. When I changed the ajax
function to post to my builderAction.cfm, I didnt pull the div over. I did just
now, but wasnt exactly sure whether to wrap all the cfoutput and cfloops within
the div or not. Tried it wrapped then moved it completely
To answer the question in the subject: depends what you really think
CFML's biggest asset is... I think it's a combination of easy to
learn / use and very helpful community, both of which are still
absolutely true in spades!
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Irvin Gomez ir...@pixel69.com wrote:
After a quick scan of the docs the it that the easiest way to use this would
be to use coldfusion to create either the html, XML or JSON to populate the
tree. I think that the least confusing route would be to use the html
example and use CF to create the html string. The theory being that
Not sure about JStree, but I have used this with CF and it is very easy to
generate trees.
http://dhtmlx.com/
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Gerald Guido [mailto:gerald.gu...@gmail.com]
Sent: 12 January 2011 22:46
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Using jsTree with Coldfusion
After a quick
You got it Andrew :-)
Here is a harder one for you, i'm surprised I can even remember this.
Sei
Lda#$00
Sta$0314
Lda#$c0
Sta$0315
Lda#$01
Sta$d019
Cli
Rts
$c000
Loop1
Lda$d012
Cmp#$50
Bne loop1
Lda#$01
Sta$d020
Sta$d021
Loop2
Lda$d012
What's the code on action.cfm?
-Original Message-
From: Teed Younger [mailto:teedyoun...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:35 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: trying to pass ajax complex strings within another form
Well there was a div on the original action.cfm. When I
Well its the same as this. Originally it didnt have code to loop through the
struct and display the values.
cfoutputcfset results = deserializeJSON(url.data)
!--- cfdump var=#results# ---
cfloop collection=#results# item=itemName
cfset item = results[itemName]
!--- cfdump var=#item#
Hehe, you pushed my memory a bit here but from my memory that is setting up
a raster interrupt to change the colors of the screen/border. This is the
sort of thing that all the fast boot loaders used.
Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/
-Original Message-
From: Russ
My understanding is that you're stuck at trying to get
the results that display from submitting the Vendor
and Product data to be sent along with the other form
input data from the form above when the submit button
under the Alternate Part Numbers field, right?
If that's the case, what about
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll probably also convert an essay about programming language
technologies (aimed at my colleagues at World Singles) into a blog
post at some point since it covers some of this ground too, as well as
digging more
Yay good memory, it splits the screen in 2 halves with 2 colours using a
raster interupt to leave the user with .normal control to type etc.
On 12 Jan 2011 23:40, Andrew Scott andr...@andyscott.id.au wrote:
Hehe, you pushed my memory a bit here but from my memory that is setting
up
a raster
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
There are two issues here:
* do you know OO / other 'modern' software development techniques?
* do you know more than one programming language?
If the answer is yes to both of those, you'll be considered employable
Yeah that's what I thought, it was actually good these type of tricks. I
recall trying other things instead of colours, to trick the machine into
getting more than 8 sprites onto one raster line. When we managed that, we
then where able to then use that to get sprites onto the borders as well.
My understanding is that you're stuck at trying to get
the results that display from submitting the Vendor
and Product data to be sent along with the other form
input data from the form above when the submit button
under the Alternate Part Numbers field, right?
Yes thats correct.I'm stuck at
Replies inline...
-Original Message-
From: Teed Younger [mailto:teedyoun...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:55 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: trying to pass ajax complex strings within another form
My understanding is that you're stuck at trying to get
the results that
I saw Blue River (the Mura folks) tweet this today:
http://twitter.com/#!/brinteractive/statuses/25246946570534912
They reference the Washington Post article about the House migrating
520 websites from a mix of proprietary and open-source content
management platforms to Drupal.
The other day,
They should just switch to Railo and be instantly FOSS with CFML nbsp;:)
FTR, nbsp;I still love farcry as a CMS I find it's code base very nice to work
with and extend.
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
On Jan 12, 2011 8:54 PM, Sean Corfield lt;seancorfi...@gmail.comgt; wrote:
I saw Blue River
On 13 January 2011 12:53, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't want to start one of those interminable CF is dying threads
but I am curious as to how many people had seen these stories and what
they thought in the context of the US government following many other
world
We started using CF while I was working at HUD in 1997.
On 1/12/2011 8:53 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
The government has always been a pretty strong area for ColdFusion
(does someone here know how long ColdFusion has been so deeply
embedded in government? I get the impression it long predates my
Hey, Teed...
It's going to take me a little longer than I thought to
work up this functionality. It's almost 10pm here on
the East Coast of the US (where are you, anyway?).
So, if it's alright, I'll get back on this first thing
tomorrow morning and finish it up. I've got a lot of it
done, but
Hey Rick, hey I wasnt expecting you to do all this work anyway! lol I do really
appreciate all your help though! Tomorrow is fine or whenever is fine with
me...lol
Im in NC btwyou?
Hey, Teed...
It's going to take me a little longer than I thought to
work up this functionality. It's
Very true. I jump on forums for other technologies and none are as helpful
as the CF community.
Eric
-Original Message-
From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:47
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?
I am going to
Nothing like a good reminder as to why I avoided assembler...
-Original Message-
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 16:59
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: 6502 (was Is Coldfusion losing it biggest asset?)
You got it Andrew :-)
Here is a harder
No problem... since I had proposed a different approach,
I thought I'd work up a functioning example. I've been
helped so much, it's nice to be able to give back!
I'm in GA, near Savannah.
I was stationed at Fort Bragg back from '86-'88.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Teed Younger
Been looking around and reading this but this is more of a do this,
do that I'm on section 3 and haven't learned much
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
They reference the Washington Post article about the House migrating
520 websites from a mix of proprietary and open-source content
management platforms to Drupal.
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. They're not just
moving to Drupal - they're limiting the vendors who can provide
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote:
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. They're not just
moving to Drupal - they're limiting the vendors who can provide
solutions for websites hosted by the US Senate Sergeant-at-Arms
Interesting. When I saw the
Cold Fusion Developers 2 opening
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