Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Just to chime in here in regards to the 'slow'/'bloatedness' of CF8's AJAX stuff... a) Don't forget that JS is still very hard for a lot of people. The built in Ajax-based UI tags are simple as heck to use. For a lot of people these tools are the _only_ way they are going to do even remotely Ajax-y. b) Don't forget that Ajax support in CF isn't just about UI. Native JSON support, returnFormat, are killer improvements. I bring this up because a lot of people will just poopoo CF8 Ajax in general without making the distinction. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Don Ldo...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't understand what the question here is. As Barney suggests, openBD with GPL covers copyleft, Railo with LGPL covers bundling. There's no need or benefit to a full permissive BSD/MIT licensed engine. Don, if you want CFML-based AJAX functionality, and your engine of choice doesn't currently support it, then help them to develop it! (Or just learn jQuery and stop worrying about the rest.) Peter, thank you for your valuable thought. I seem to see a clearer picture, and will need to bug people like you onto this path... Don ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323926 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
I'll agree with Ray on this. I have an advantage of being a JavaScripter long before I came into CF (and that was some time ago), but I know a lot of CF developers who never cultivated that skill set. The CF 8 Ajax components are an excellent entry point for those without the knowledge, as well as an terrific tool for rapid application prototyping for those who do have the knowledge, or for small applications looking for a little kick. When 'slow'/'bloatedness' become a barrier, then it's time to either learn the underlying technology to get beyond it, or to hire someone to do it for you. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Co-Author of Learning Ext JS http://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js/book _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323930 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
I heard you, Ray, if anyone can afford cf8 for his/her work like distributing his/here ware or is lucky enough to have a fat gig with the gov or something like that, by all means, they don't have to go the open source cfml engine and ajax route and then have to pull their hair out at some point to dive into the on-and-off js world like me. To be honest, I truly like cf8's ajax tags and functions, and I would say tags like the famed cfajaxproxy is awesome but in the mean time, don't mean to be rude, some of them is indeed bloated and you've offered rationale for that. Imho, Adobe Coldfusion8 has its market and so would the other guys too. Best to everyone. Just to chime in here in regards to the 'slow'/'bloatedness' of CF8's AJAX stuff... a) Don't forget that JS is still very hard for a lot of people. The built in Ajax-based UI tags are simple as heck to use. For a lot of people these tools are the _only_ way they are going to do even remotely Ajax-y. b) Don't forget that Ajax support in CF isn't just about UI. Native JSON support, returnFormat, are killer improvements. I bring this up because a lot of people will just poopoo CF8 Ajax in general without making the distinction. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:04 AM, D ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323954 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
And how many hours of hair pulling are you putting in to figuring out the AJAX/JS stuff that's already done in CF 8? Are you able to charge for those hours? mxAjax / CFAjax docs and other useful articles: http://www.bifrost.com.au/blog/ 2009/6/26 Don L do...@yahoo.com: I heard you, Ray, if anyone can afford cf8 for his/her work like distributing his/here ware or is lucky enough to have a fat gig with the gov or something like that, by all means, they don't have to go the open source cfml engine and ajax route and then have to pull their hair out at some point to dive into the on-and-off js world like me. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323963 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
You can use the following project at Riaforge for CFAJaxproxy I guess AjaxProxy Author: Dave Shuck Last Updated: July 3, 2008 4:04:54 PM EDT Custom tag and associated library that will functionally emulate CFAJAXPROXY for non-CF8 engines -- From: Casey Dougall ca...@uberwebsitesolutions.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:59 AM To: cf-talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Open source ColdFusion again On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Don L do...@yahoo.com wrote: Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. There is nothing making me feel all warm and fuzzy about this tag to begin with. cfajaxproxy http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=Tags_a-b_3.html Still requires a load of work unless cfajaxproxy cfc=components.emp jsclassname=emp is actually witting all of that header code for you. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323803 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
To whet your appetite, here is some custom js using jquery that will take
any link with a class of modal-flyout and open a modal flyout with either
the contents of the remote href (ajax) or the div that it points to:
script type=text/javascript
$('.modal-flyout').boxy();
/script
A markup example:
a href=http://myserver.com/flyoutpage/; title=Title for the modal box
class=modal-flyoutSome link/a
Example two:
a href=#someDiv title=Title for the modal box class=modal-flyoutSome
link/a
div id=someDiv
Content in here appears in flyout.
/div
For me, this makes cfwindow utterly redundant.
Dominic
2009/6/23 Don L do...@yahoo.com
Most of these Ajax features are pretty bloated in terms of the amount
of JS
and CSS that need to be downloaded.
Exactly, personally I do all my Ajax with about 15 lines of code ;-)
Are you talking about using non-cf8 built-in ajax tags or ajax functions
that you built on your own using popular js libraries? If so, let me learn
something from you, care to show us some of your nifty code for this?
~|
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RE: Open source ColdFusion again
Well we are in a credit crunch! For me, this makes cfwindow utterly redundant. Dominic ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323806 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
I should point out that the js below relies on the jQuery base library
(tiny) + a plugin called 'boxy'. Two very small js includes.
2009/6/23 Dominic Watson watson.domi...@googlemail.com
To whet your appetite, here is some custom js using jquery that will take
any link with a class of modal-flyout and open a modal flyout with either
the contents of the remote href (ajax) or the div that it points to:
script type=text/javascript
$('.modal-flyout').boxy();
/script
~|
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on the House of Fusion mailing lists
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Re: Open source ColdFusion again
I don't understand what the question here is. As Barney suggests, openBD with GPL covers copyleft, Railo with LGPL covers bundling. There's no need or benefit to a full permissive BSD/MIT licensed engine. Don, if you want CFML-based AJAX functionality, and your engine of choice doesn't currently support it, then help them to develop it! (Or just learn jQuery and stop worrying about the rest.) ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323808 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
To whet your appetite, here is some custom js using jquery that will take
any link with a class of modal-flyout and open a modal flyout with either
the contents of the remote href (ajax) or the div that it points to:
script type=text/javascript
$('.modal-flyout').boxy();
/script
A markup example:
a href=http://myserver.com/flyoutpage/; title=Title for the modal box
class=modal-flyoutSome link/a
Example two:
a href=#someDiv title=Title for the modal box class=modal-flyoutSome
link/a
div id=someDiv
Content in here appears in flyout.
/div
For me, this makes cfwindow utterly redundant.
Dominic
Cool. very clear, calling a class and one of its methods, and interestingly,
here, a method can be a plug-in. Also, I'll think about systematic approach
vs. piece meal. Bring it on, people!
2009/6/23 Don L do...@yahoo.com
~|
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Re: Open source ColdFusion again
I don't understand what the question here is. As Barney suggests, openBD with GPL covers copyleft, Railo with LGPL covers bundling. There's no need or benefit to a full permissive BSD/MIT licensed engine. Don, if you want CFML-based AJAX functionality, and your engine of choice doesn't currently support it, then help them to develop it! (Or just learn jQuery and stop worrying about the rest.) Peter, thank you for your valuable thought. I seem to see a clearer picture, and will need to bug people like you onto this path... Don ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323829 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Open source ColdFusion again
This topic has been brought up a little while ago, I'm wondering if people are still into it. Smith is one, Ben's 'gang' another ... Thanks. Don Chunsheng Li ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323777 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Yes, we're still into it: search open source, railo, blue dragon, etc at coldfusionbloggers.org On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Don L do...@yahoo.com wrote: This topic has been brought up a little while ago, I'm wondering if people are still into it. Smith is one, Ben's 'gang' another ... Thanks. Don Chunsheng Li ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323778 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
The question is really open source CFML, not open source ColdFusion. Adobe isn't going to open source their CFML implementation. I'm pretty sure that between Railo and Open BlueDragon the question has been answered. cheers, barneyb On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Don Ldo...@yahoo.com wrote: This topic has been brought up a little while ago, I'm wondering if people are still into it. Smith is one, Ben's 'gang' another ... Thanks. Don Chunsheng Li ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323779 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Yes, we're still into it: search open source, railo, blue dragon, etc at coldfusionbloggers.org On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:10 PM, D Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. Or, put it this way, I think the need for a freebie cfml engine + cool latest ajax functions are of substantial value, but probably the way it is now, is freebie cfml engines like BD, may not have native ajax functions like what cf8 has. Rolling up one's sleeve is one option, need for it may be many, mostly probably small-medium sized companies (SMEs), how about this? What if a bunch of people/SMEs chip in to pay some top notch jquery programmer with heavy cf to develop some sort of plug-in, that the 'investors' could have for free and sell it to anyone who needs it for a very reasonable fee? Am thinking loud here... @ Barney Boisvert, it's just the semantics. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323780 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Don L do...@yahoo.com wrote: Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. There is nothing making me feel all warm and fuzzy about this tag to begin with. cfajaxproxy http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=Tags_a-b_3.html Still requires a load of work unless cfajaxproxy cfc=components.emp jsclassname=emp is actually witting all of that header code for you. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323782 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Don, Just use straight Ext Js on one of these engines, rather than relying on the cfform tags. Or, try ColdExt. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Co-Author of Learning Ext JS http://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js/book _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com On 6/22/2009 3:42 PM, Don L wrote: Yes, we're still into it: search open source, railo, blue dragon, etc at coldfusionbloggers.org On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:10 PM, D Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. Or, put it this way, I think the need for a freebie cfml engine + cool latest ajax functions are of substantial value, but probably the way it is now, is freebie cfml engines like BD, may not have native ajax functions like what cf8 has. Rolling up one's sleeve is one option, need for it may be many, mostly probably small-medium sized companies (SMEs), how about this? What if a bunch of people/SMEs chip in to pay some top notch jquery programmer with heavy cf to develop some sort of plug-in, that the 'investors' could have for free and sell it to anyone who needs it for a very reasonable fee? Am thinking loud here... @ Barney Boisvert, it's just the semantics. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323785 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:42 PM, D Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. There is nothing making me feel all warm and fuzzy about this tag to begin with. cfajaxproxy http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=Tags_a-b_3.html Still requires a load of work unless cfajaxproxy cfc=components.emp jsclassname=emp is actually witting all of that header code for you. ok. so, probably you were referring to the BD's new tag of cfajaxproxy (probably it's been there for a while, I don't know), just took a look at the release notes etc. looking very promising to my need, and thanks for the syntax, good to know. With cf8, we need to use cfajaximport, I don't see this tag in fBD, also, cfwindow, cfdiv, bla bla, sorry I'm greedy... and jetty is cool too. Thanks. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323786 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
If all that stuff is valuable to you, buy Adobe CF. That stuff is NOT part of the CFML language, it's part of Adobe's CFML implementation. Open source CFML engines isn't about getting Adobe CF for free, it's about a CFML platform that you can modify/extend as you need. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Don Ldo...@yahoo.com wrote: ok. so, probably you were referring to the BD's new tag of cfajaxproxy (probably it's been there for a while, I don't know), just took a look at the release notes etc. looking very promising to my need, and thanks for the syntax, good to know. With cf8, we need to use cfajaximport, I don't see this tag in fBD, also, cfwindow, cfdiv, bla bla, sorry I'm greedy... and jetty is cool too. Thanks. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323787 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
I disagree and don't believe that the open source cfml languages need to offer wrappers for javascript libraries. Trying to keep up, and offer wrappers for these libraries only limits the programmer - the scattered js offerings of CF8 compared to the scope and depth of what's on offer from the js community is a testament to that. I feel that os frameworks wrapping other os frameworks is counter intuitive. Side by side they are free to grow and to do their job brilliantly. Dominic 2009/6/22 Don L do...@yahoo.com: Or, put it this way, I think the need for a freebie cfml engine + cool latest ajax functions are of substantial value, but probably the way it is now, is freebie cfml engines like BD, may not have native ajax functions like what cf8 has ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323788 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Don, Just use straight Ext Js on one of these engines, rather than relying on the cfform tags. Or, try ColdExt. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Co-Author of Learning Ext JS http://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js/book _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Thank you, Cutter, of Railo 3.0.1 or OpenBD 1.1, for my need of basic cfml + quite heavy ajax functions rolled out by cf8, which one would you recommend to try first? BD seems to be around for longer time, also, easier for code change (currently it's cf8 app). Don On 6/22/2009 3:42 PM, D ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323789 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
And, more to Barney's point, that's part of why Adobe CF costs money. Ext Js is bundled within Adobe CF because Adobe pays the licensing fees required to include it as part of their product, similar to Adobe's support for Verity, PDF, and more. This is part of why Adobe CF is not an open source. That being said, Railo's plugin architecture (and OpenBD may do this too) allows anyone to develop a plugin of a 'wrapper' implementation around an Ajax library. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer Co-Author of Learning Ext JS http://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js/book _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com On 6/22/2009 4:20 PM, Barney Boisvert wrote: If all that stuff is valuable to you, buy Adobe CF. That stuff is NOT part of the CFML language, it's part of Adobe's CFML implementation. Open source CFML engines isn't about getting Adobe CF for free, it's about a CFML platform that you can modify/extend as you need. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Don Ldo...@yahoo.com wrote: ok. so, probably you were referring to the BD's new tag of cfajaxproxy (probably it's been there for a while, I don't know), just took a look at the release notes etc. looking very promising to my need, and thanks for the syntax, good to know. With cf8, we need to use cfajaximport, I don't see this tag in fBD, also, cfwindow, cfdiv, bla bla, sorry I'm greedy... and jetty is cool too. Thanks. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323790 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Don L wrote: Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. Or, put it this way, I think the need for a freebie cfml engine + cool latest ajax functions are of substantial value To whom? To you? How much are you willing to pay for that value? Jochem -- Jochem van Dieten http://jochem.vandieten.net/ ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323791 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Dominic, I've read your posts and am very impressed and yes, technically the current architecture of the various open source cfml engines are probably most desirable - I'm not exactly in a position to draw a conclusion but just a sort of guess, here what I was talking off my head was, from business perspective I want to get this thing done or converted quickly. One option is, hop around for a very desirable technical solution or get it done quickly still as a good solution but more focus on the feature and/or design, and besides, I don't have the luxury as some big company. btw, I need to distribute my app and run locally. I disagree and don't believe that the open source cfml languages need to offer wrappers for javascript libraries. Trying to keep up, and offer wrappers for these libraries only limits the programmer - the scattered js offerings of CF8 compared to the scope and depth of what's on offer from the js community is a testament to that. I feel that os frameworks wrapping other os frameworks is counter intuitive. Side by side they are free to grow and to do their job brilliantly. Dominic 2009/6/22 Don L do...@yahoo.com: Or, put it this way, I think the need for a freebie cfml engine + cool latest ajax functions are of substantial value, but probably the way it is now, is freebie cfml engines like BD, may not have native ajax functions like what cf8 has ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323792 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
This topic has been brought up a little while ago, I'm wondering if people are still into it. Smith is one, Ben's 'gang' another ... Thanks. Don Chunsheng Li I feel the need to add an additional bit. I bought a cf8 standard myself a while ago. No one is arguing nor expecting a substantial free software, what I threw out was about affordability, and especially for the SMEs, and some of them may need to bundle their app for distritution, and I'm not talking about Air. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323794 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
There's an interesting theme here, paying for what you get. With developers, that is true in the extreme. With ColdFusion vs either Railo or Open BD that truth becomes hazy indeed and will clearly depend on what it is you need done. I can't imagine that for a single project the cost of a CF license is going to save you money in terms of developer time. And if you are doing any great work on the js side of things, I would suggest that using cfml tags to achieve your ends will *cost* you time (whether Railo, Open BD or CF) because sooner or later you hit the limit of what can be done, e.g. http://betterautosuggest.riaforge.org After completing that miniature project, it became clear what a complete waste of time it was (which meant that it wasn't a waste of time I guess). That custom tag is better than the one that CF supplies and yet still pales in comparison to what is offered open source. Invest in the people :) Dominic 2009/6/22 Don L do...@yahoo.com: Dominic, I've read your posts and am very impressed and yes, technically the current architecture of the various open source cfml engines are probably most desirable - I'm not exactly in a position to draw a conclusion but just a sort of guess, here what I was talking off my head was, from business perspective I want to get this thing done or converted quickly. One option is, hop around for a very desirable technical solution or get it done quickly still as a good solution but more focus on the feature and/or design, and besides, I don't have the luxury as some big company. btw, I need to distribute my app and run locally. I disagree and don't believe that the open source cfml languages need to offer wrappers for javascript libraries. Trying to keep up, and offer wrappers for these libraries only limits the programmer - the scattered js offerings of CF8 compared to the scope and depth of what's on offer from the js community is a testament to that. I feel that os frameworks wrapping other os frameworks is counter intuitive. Side by side they are free to grow and to do their job brilliantly. Dominic 2009/6/22 Don L do...@yahoo.com: Or, put it this way, I think the need for a freebie cfml engine + cool latest ajax functions are of substantial value, but probably the way it is now, is freebie cfml engines like BD, may not have native ajax functions like what cf8 has ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323795 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Most of these Ajax features are pretty bloated in terms of the amount of JS and CSS that need to be downloaded. The CFwindow example from Adobe's docs needs to download 400+ k of JS and CSS. Jquery on the other hand is ~55k and you can build your own EXT package using only the libraries you need. Most of the tags you mentioned can be emulated very easily using Spry, jQuery and/or EXT or one of the Ajax libraries on RIAforge. And there is a jQuery plugin for just about anything and everything imaginable. Any of these features can be rolled into a custom tag or a CFC rather easily. I do it all the time at work. And Railo now supports CFC-based Custom Tags for that very purpose. Both OBD and Railo are *very* capable CF runtimes. I have been running my Blog and several other sites on Railo for about a year or so with out a single hiccup. G! On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Don L do...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:42 PM, D Which one of these freebie cfml has basic cf engine + native ajax support like cfajaxproxy for instance. There is nothing making me feel all warm and fuzzy about this tag to begin with. cfajaxproxy http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=Tags_a-b_3.html Still requires a load of work unless cfajaxproxy cfc=components.emp jsclassname=emp is actually witting all of that header code for you. ok. so, probably you were referring to the BD's new tag of cfajaxproxy (probably it's been there for a while, I don't know), just took a look at the release notes etc. looking very promising to my need, and thanks for the syntax, good to know. With cf8, we need to use cfajaximport, I don't see this tag in fBD, also, cfwindow, cfdiv, bla bla, sorry I'm greedy... and jetty is cool too. Thanks. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323796 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
There's an interesting theme here, paying for what you get. With developers, that is true in the extreme. With ColdFusion vs either Railo or Open BD that truth becomes hazy indeed and will clearly depend on what it is you need done. I can't imagine that for a single project the cost of a CF license is going to save you money in terms of developer time. And if you are doing any great work on the js side of things, I would suggest that using cfml tags to achieve your ends will *cost* you time (whether Railo, Open BD or CF) because sooner or later you hit the limit of what can be done, e.g. http://betterautosuggest.riaforge.org After completing that miniature project, it became clear what a complete waste of time it was (which meant that it wasn't a waste of time I guess). That custom tag is better than the one that CF supplies and yet still pales in comparison to what is offered open source. Invest in the people :) Dominic Having/bought a cf8 copy early on wasn't for a tiny project. Then the project took on with its own 'life', and for another, to see what's technially possible then one can see if some idea can be implmented, then a new idea on its implementation came up... anyway, the feedback/thoughts on the thread are helpful, which I appreciate. I now see more options to get things done. Thanks. ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323797 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Most of these Ajax features are pretty bloated in terms of the amount of JS and CSS that need to be downloaded. The CFwindow example from Adobe's docs needs to download 400+ k of JS and CSS. Jquery on the other hand is ~55k and you can build your own EXT package using only the libraries you need. Most of the tags you mentioned can be emulated very easily using Spry, jQuery and/or EXT or one of the Ajax libraries on RIAforge. And there is a jQuery plugin for just about anything and everything imaginable. Any of these features can be rolled into a custom tag or a CFC rather easily. I do it all the time at work. And Railo now supports CFC-based Custom Tags for that very purpose. Both OBD and Railo are *very* capable CF runtimes. I have been running my Blog and several other sites on Railo for about a year or so with out a single hiccup. Yes, I realized the cf8 ajax tags slowish... Ok, I'll roll up my sleeves to make the conversion despite my rusty js skill. Thanks for the thought. G! On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 5:11 PM, D ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323798 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Most of these Ajax features are pretty bloated in terms of the amount of JS and CSS that need to be downloaded. Exactly, personally I do all my Ajax with about 15 lines of code ;-) ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323799 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Most of these Ajax features are pretty bloated in terms of the amount of JS and CSS that need to be downloaded. Exactly, personally I do all my Ajax with about 15 lines of code ;-) Are you talking about using non-cf8 built-in ajax tags or ajax functions that you built on your own using popular js libraries? If so, let me learn something from you, care to show us some of your nifty code for this? ~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:323800 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Open source ColdFusion again
Are you talking about using non-cf8 built-in ajax tags or ajax
functions that you built on your own using popular js libraries?
First I usually develop my own Javascript code with ONLY the features I
need, and try to avoid popular libraries,
secondly I do not need custom tags to use Javascript, but sometimes my
custom tags need some Javascript, which is different.
care to show us some of your nifty code for this?
Well for instancem here are two functions, one for GET requests, the
othe for POST:
function ajaxGET (url)
{
var XMLHttp = null;
if (window.XMLHttpRequest)XMLHttp = new XMLHttpRequest();
// code for IE
else if (window.ActiveXObject)XMLHttp = new
ActiveXObject(Microsoft.XMLHttp);
if(XMLHttp)
{
XMLHttp.open(GET, url, false);
XMLHttp.send(null);
if (XMLHttp.status == 200)return XMLHttp.responseText;
displayError(XMLHttp.statusText)
return null;
}
else return null;
}
function ajaxPOST (url, sendText)
{
var XMLHttp = null;
if (window.XMLHttpRequest)XMLHttp = new XMLHttpRequest();
// code for IE
else if (window.ActiveXObject)XMLHttp = new
ActiveXObject(Microsoft.XMLHttp);
if(XMLHttp)
{
XMLHttp.open(POST, url, false);
XMLHttp.setRequestHeader(Content-Type,
application/x-www-form-urlencoded; charset=iso-8859-1);
XMLHttp.send(sendText);
if (XMLHttp.status == 200)return XMLHttp.responseText;
displayError(H2 + XMLHttp.statusText + /H2P +
XMLHttp.responseText)
return null;
}
else return null;
}
function displayError(text)
{
var errorWin = open
(,Error,scrollbars=yes,resizable,width=900,height=600);
errorWin.document.open();
errorWin.document.write(text);
errorWin.document.close();
errorWin.focus()
}
I also never use XML to transmit Javascript values, just return
javascrip code and evaluate it.
~|
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