[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Morearty]

Okay, finally got around to starting this discussion on mozilla
plugin-futures.

- Mike



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:53 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>
>> So, since Flash is installed by means other than as part of an Extension,
>> does that mean that John Tamplin's suggestion of giving permissions via
>> manifest.json won't work for me?  I take it manifest.json is something that
>> only applies to extensions, and not to the other methods of installing a
>> plugin.
>>
>
> right
>
>>
>> On the other hand, it seems to me that since (as far as I know) plugins
>> are native code that can do whatever they want, there is no need for giving
>> a plugin special permission to use the new NPN API -- just grant that
>> permission to all plugins.  Native plugins can already do just about
>> anything, including read/write access to the filesystem and the Internet, so
>> it doesn't seem necessary for them to need special permission to access this
>> API.
>
>
> agreed
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty wrote:
>>>


 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek 
> wrote:
>
>> I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
>> advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
>> extensions.
>>
>
> How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
> think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
> and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
> platform-specific installer to do that either.
>

 I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I
 know is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect 
 that
 when Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape
 plugins, or (b) just Flash, and enabled it.

>>>
>>> We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the
>>> same algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
>>> plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
>>> installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.
>>>
>>>

 As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
 installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
 plugin version.

>>>
>>>
>>
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:

> So, since Flash is installed by means other than as part of an Extension,
> does that mean that John Tamplin's suggestion of giving permissions via
> manifest.json won't work for me?  I take it manifest.json is something that
> only applies to extensions, and not to the other methods of installing a
> plugin.
>

right

>
> On the other hand, it seems to me that since (as far as I know) plugins are
> native code that can do whatever they want, there is no need for giving a
> plugin special permission to use the new NPN API -- just grant that
> permission to all plugins.  Native plugins can already do just about
> anything, including read/write access to the filesystem and the Internet, so
> it doesn't seem necessary for them to need special permission to access this
> API.


agreed

>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek 
 wrote:

> I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
> advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
> extensions.
>

 How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
 think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
 and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
 platform-specific installer to do that either.

>>>
>>> I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I
>>> know is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that
>>> when Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape
>>> plugins, or (b) just Flash, and enabled it.
>>>
>>
>> We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the same
>> algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
>> plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
>> installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
>>> installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
>>> plugin version.
>>>
>>
>>
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Morearty]

So, since Flash is installed by means other than as part of an Extension,
does that mean that John Tamplin's suggestion of giving permissions via
manifest.json won't work for me?  I take it manifest.json is something that
only applies to extensions, and not to the other methods of installing a
plugin.

On the other hand, it seems to me that since (as far as I know) plugins are
native code that can do whatever they want, there is no need for giving a
plugin special permission to use the new NPN API -- just grant that
permission to all plugins.  Native plugins can already do just about
anything, including read/write access to the filesystem and the Internet, so
it doesn't seem necessary for them to need special permission to access this
API.



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:30 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>>>
 I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
 advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
 extensions.

>>>
>>> How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
>>> think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
>>> and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
>>> platform-specific installer to do that either.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I know
>> is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that when
>> Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape plugins, or
>> (b) just Flash, and enabled it.
>>
>
> We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the same
> algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
> plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
> installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.
>
>
>>
>> As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
>> installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
>> plugin version.
>>
>
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Evan Martin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:45 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:32 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM, John Abd-El-Malek 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
>>> discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list
>>> (https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).
>>
>> Since the other browsers do not run plugins in a separate thread, they
>> don't have this issue.  Is that list still relevant then?
>
> Firefox and Safari (at least on Mac) are also moving towards out of process
> plugins.

And as a recent thread on there brought up, Opera does them out of
process as well.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:32 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>
>> If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
>> discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list (
>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).
>>
>
> Since the other browsers do not run plugins in a separate thread, they
> don't have this issue.  Is that list still relevant then?
>

Firefox and Safari (at least on Mac) are also moving towards out of process
plugins.


>
> --
> John A. Tamplin
> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:34 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:28 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>
>> Through whatever plugin installer they have (i.e. Flash's installer) or
>> the toolkit (i.e. Flash Builder).
>>
>
> So are you suggesting there is a better way to package an NPAPI plugin for
> Chrome than to build a CRX?  On Firefox, NPAPI plugins can be installed via
> XPI files just like XPCOM components, so it seems appropriate to use the
> analogous construct here.


crx/xpi are two possible convenient ways of doing it.  But if a program like
Flash Builder installs an NPAPI plugin alongside, then there's no need to
use either of those.


>
>
> --
> John A. Tamplin
> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:28 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:

> Through whatever plugin installer they have (i.e. Flash's installer) or the
> toolkit (i.e. Flash Builder).
>

So are you suggesting there is a better way to package an NPAPI plugin for
Chrome than to build a CRX?  On Firefox, NPAPI plugins can be installed via
XPI files just like XPCOM components, so it seems appropriate to use the
analogous construct here.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:

> If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
> discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list (
> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).
>

Since the other browsers do not run plugins in a separate thread, they don't
have this issue.  Is that list still relevant then?

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:54 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>>
>>> For reference, something similar is done for popups:
>>> void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>>> void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
>>>
>>> Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
>>>
>>> void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>>> void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
>>>
>>
>> Sounds fine to me.
>>
>
> Me too.
>

If this sounds good to you, the next step would be getting a broader
discussion with other browser vendors on the plugin-futures mailing list (
https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/plugin-futures).


>
> As for a "ping" solution, my response is the same as John's: I could make
> that work if necessary, but it would be awkward. Having an NPN_... API seems
> like a cleaner solution.
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>>
>>> I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
>>> advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
>>> extensions.
>>>
>>
>> How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
>> think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
>> and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
>> platform-specific installer to do that either.
>>
>
> I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I know
> is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that when
> Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape plugins, or
> (b) just Flash, and enabled it.
>

We crawled the disk/registry for pointers to NPAPI plugins, using the same
algorithm that other NPAPI browsers use.  You probably already had the
plugin from when you used Firefox.  If you didn't, we have a plugin
installer UI that, once given permission, would download and install it.


>
> As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
> installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
> plugin version.
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>
>> I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
>> advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
>> extensions.
>>
>
> How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?
>

Through whatever plugin installer they have (i.e. Flash's installer) or the
toolkit (i.e. Flash Builder).


> I don't think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't
> exist, and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
> platform-specific installer to do that either.
>

> --
> John A. Tamplin
> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Morearty]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>
>> I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the
>> advantage of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via
>> extensions.
>>
>
> How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't
> think you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist,
> and copy the file there, and you don't want to have to write a
> platform-specific installer to do that either.
>

I don't know quite how the Flash player got into my Chrome, but all I know
is, it's there.  Although I don't know for sure, I sort of suspect that when
Chrome installed, it looked for either (a) all existing Netscape plugins, or
(b) just Flash, and enabled it.

As far as I know, we (Adobe) don't have any special Chrome extension for
installing Flash player.  We just have the ActiveX version and the Netscape
plugin version.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Morearty]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:54 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek wrote:
>
>> For reference, something similar is done for popups:
>> void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>> void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
>>
>> Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
>>
>> void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>> void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
>>
>
> Sounds fine to me.
>

Me too.

As for a "ping" solution, my response is the same as John's: I could make
that work if necessary, but it would be awkward. Having an NPN_... API seems
like a cleaner solution.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Scott Hess  wrote:

> Since the hang dialog comes up in the future after you've shifted your
> focus elsewhere, if we did any sort of user interaction at all I'd
> rather the plug-in could say "Ask user for permission to disable hang
> monitor for this context right now".  The plug-in hits the breakpoint,
> calls that function, and on successful return falls into the blocking
> mode.  The browser could cache the response so that the user only has
> to be asked once per tab (or browser session).
>

I still like the plugin being in control of when the warning is disabled --
let's say the user has code which actually has an infinite loop in JS which
gets called by the plugin -- even if I am debugging the Java code and know
the plugin will be unresponsive during that time, I still want to catch the
hang in what to me is user code.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:

> For reference, something similar is done for popups:
> void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
> void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
>
> Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
>
> void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
> void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
>

Sounds fine to me.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Scott Hess]

Since the hang dialog comes up in the future after you've shifted your
focus elsewhere, if we did any sort of user interaction at all I'd
rather the plug-in could say "Ask user for permission to disable hang
monitor for this context right now".  The plug-in hits the breakpoint,
calls that function, and on successful return falls into the blocking
mode.  The browser could cache the response so that the user only has
to be asked once per tab (or browser session).

-scott


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Mike Mammarella  wrote:
> Perhaps rather than disabling the hang monitor altogether what that
> could do is add an additional option to the warning the first time:
> "don't notify me again." If you click that, then it will disable the
> hang monitor until the plugin is once again responsive and then
> becomes unresponsive again. (Or maybe even until the plugin
> terminates.)
>
> That avoids the need to have a plugin be trusted in any way, but keeps
> the UI simple unless the plugin knows it wants to display it and get
> debugged. You'd still have to deal with the dialog once but after that
> it would get out of your way.
>
> --Mike
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Scott Hess  wrote:
>>
>> Another alternative would be a "ping" type call to say "I'm
>> unresponsive, and I mean it."  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
>> could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
>> together enough to call the watchdog.
>>
>> -scott
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:
>>> For reference, something similar is done for popups:
>>> void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>>> void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
>>> Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
>>> void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>>> void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
>
> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
> if there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.

 I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
 method names):
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
 processSocketMessages();
 NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
 and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
 permission in the manifest would fail.

 --
 John A. Tamplin
 Software Engineer (GWT), Google


>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> >>
>>
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Mike Mammarella  wrote:

> Perhaps rather than disabling the hang monitor altogether what that
> could do is add an additional option to the warning the first time:
> "don't notify me again." If you click that, then it will disable the
> hang monitor until the plugin is once again responsive and then
> becomes unresponsive again. (Or maybe even until the plugin
> terminates.)
>

In the case of debugging something remote, I don't think that buys you
anything over the current model unless it is for the lifetime of the plugin.
 Also, I think it will be annoying to users who expect when they are using
debugging the Java code associated with their app that the browser side is
going to hang (and better than other browsers where the UI locks up
entirely) -- I still think some way for it to always be disabled for the
given plugin with the user's consent.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Mammarella]

Perhaps rather than disabling the hang monitor altogether what that
could do is add an additional option to the warning the first time:
"don't notify me again." If you click that, then it will disable the
hang monitor until the plugin is once again responsive and then
becomes unresponsive again. (Or maybe even until the plugin
terminates.)

That avoids the need to have a plugin be trusted in any way, but keeps
the UI simple unless the plugin knows it wants to display it and get
debugged. You'd still have to deal with the dialog once but after that
it would get out of your way.

--Mike

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Scott Hess  wrote:
>
> Another alternative would be a "ping" type call to say "I'm
> unresponsive, and I mean it."  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
> could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
> together enough to call the watchdog.
>
> -scott
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:
>> For reference, something similar is done for popups:
>> void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>> void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
>> Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
>> void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
>> void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:

 I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
 if there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
>>>
>>> I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
>>> method names):
>>> NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
>>> processSocketMessages();
>>> NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
>>> and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
>>> permission in the manifest would fail.
>>>
>>> --
>>> John A. Tamplin
>>> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Scott Hess  wrote:

> Another alternative would be a "ping" type call to say "I'm
> unresponsive, and I mean it."  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
> could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
> together enough to call the watchdog.


That would be awkward, but doable, as in my case I couldn't use blocking
socket reads but would have to do polling so I could call the heartbeat
function.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:

> I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the advantage
> of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via extensions.
>

How else would an end-user get a plugin installed for Chrome?  I don't think
you want to tell them to go create a directory if it doesn't exist, and copy
the file there, and you don't want to have to write a platform-specific
installer to do that either.

-- 
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Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Scott Hess]

Another alternative would be a "ping" type call to say "I'm
unresponsive, and I mean it."  Like a watchdog timer.  The plug-in
could still effectively be hung, but at least it has to have things
together enough to call the watchdog.

-scott


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Abd-El-Malek  wrote:
> For reference, something similar is done for popups:
> void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
> void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);
> Perhaps we can do the same thing here:
> void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
> void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
>>> if there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>>>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
>>
>> I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
>> method names):
>> NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
>> processSocketMessages();
>> NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
>> and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
>> permission in the manifest would fail.
>>
>> --
>> John A. Tamplin
>> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>>
>>
>
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
>
>> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
>> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
>
>
> I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
> method names):
> NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
> processSocketMessages();
> NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
>
> and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
> permission in the manifest would fail.
>

I presume you're referring to Chrome extensions?  I don't see the advantage
of making this depend on the plugin being distributed via extensions.


>
> --
> John A. Tamplin
> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

For reference, something similar is done for popups:
void NPN_PushPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
void NPN_PopPopupsEnabledState(NPP instance);

Perhaps we can do the same thing here:

void NPN_PushPluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance, NPBool enabled);
void NPN_Pop PluginHangDetectorState(NPP instance);

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
>
>> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
>> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
>
>
> I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
> method names):
> NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
> processSocketMessages();
> NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
>
> and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
> permission in the manifest would fail.
>
> --
> John A. Tamplin
> Software Engineer (GWT), Google
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Abd-El-Malek]

I think this adds a lot of complexity.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Scott Hess  wrote:

>
> Could it be like incognito mode, where the window is special and the
> tabs cannot be pooled with other modes?  Then we'd know you were done
> when all your plugin-dev tabs were gone.
>
> -scott
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
> > I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however
> if
> > there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
> >  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
> > -Darin
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could
> be
> >> potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were
> launching
> >> in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing
> this
> >> would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open
> another
> >> tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit,
> he
> >> would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the
> one in
> >> our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.
> >>
> >> For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
> >> --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
> >> explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
> >> --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I
> might
> >> also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
> >> control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
> >> --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects
> that
> >> flag for just that one tab.
> >>
> >> Thanks!  - Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
> >>> of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
> >>> --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.
> >>>
> >>> Adam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty 
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Hi,
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex
> Builder)
> >>> > team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor
> to
> >>> > work even if Chrome is already running.
> >>> >
> >>> > Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
> >>> > for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
> >>> > So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
> >>> > click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
> >>> > Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
> >>> > Builder.
> >>> >
> >>> > Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
> >>> > The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
> >>> > blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
> >>> > next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
> >>> >
> >>> > The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
> >>> > (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
> >>> > message:
> >>> >
> >>> >The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
> >>> >Would you like to stop it?
> >>> >
> >>> > Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
> >>> > so.
> >>> >
> >>> > I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to
> launch
> >>> > chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
> >>> > Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.
>  If
> >>> > Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
> >>> > suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
> >>> > over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
> >>> > tell Chrome to use this flag.)
> >>> >
> >>> > I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
> >>> > apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
> >>> > all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
> >>> > Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
> >>> > currently implemented as a global setting.
> >>> >
> >>> > Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
> >>> > I log an enhancement request?
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks,
> >>> >
> >>> >  - Mike Morearty
> >>> >Sr. Computer Scienstist
> >>> >Adobe Systems Inc.
> >>> >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:

> That would work for us too.  Seems pretty good -- an easy way for a plugin
> to say, "Temporarily disable the hang monitor, because we are going to be
> deliberately hung for a little while."
>
> But I don't understand how the manifest would work.  I get that you want to
> prevent malicious plugins from abusing this, but how does a plugin become
> "trusted"?  What sort of manifest is this, and where is it (is it in the
> plugin, or in Chrome, or somewhere else)?
>

In 
manifest.json,
you already have a permissions entry.  If that were extended to include a
disable-plugin-warning permission, then presumably at install time the
installer would warn you that the extension was requesting this ability,
much like installing an Android app.   If you are installing something that
you don't think should need that ability, then you might think twice about
installing it.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Morearty]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:46 PM, John Tamplin  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
>
>> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
>> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
>
>
> I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
> method names):
> NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
> processSocketMessages();
> NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);
>
> and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
> permission in the manifest would fail.
>

That would work for us too.  Seems pretty good -- an easy way for a plugin
to say, "Temporarily disable the hang monitor, because we are going to be
deliberately hung for a little while."

But I don't understand how the manifest would work.  I get that you want to
prevent malicious plugins from abusing this, but how does a plugin become
"trusted"?  What sort of manifest is this, and where is it (is it in the
plugin, or in Chrome, or somewhere else)?

I'm also fine with the other suggestions, such as making it a bit like
incognito mode, but that seems like potentially quite a lot more work.

P.S.  I'll log this as soon as this initial discussion slows down.

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:

> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.


I was thinking something like this for my case (substitute appropriate
method names):
NPN_SetPluginWarning(false);
processSocketMessages();
NPN_SetPluginWarning(true);

and trying to call NPN_SetPluginWarning where you didn't request that
permission in the manifest would fail.

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Scott Hess]

Could it be like incognito mode, where the window is special and the
tabs cannot be pooled with other modes?  Then we'd know you were done
when all your plugin-dev tabs were gone.

-scott


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
> -Darin
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>>
>> We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
>> potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
>> in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
>> would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
>> tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
>> would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
>> our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.
>>
>> For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
>> --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
>> explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
>> --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
>> also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
>> control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
>> --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
>> flag for just that one tab.
>>
>> Thanks!  - Mike
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth  wrote:
>>>
>>> You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
>>> of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
>>> --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
>>> > team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
>>> > work even if Chrome is already running.
>>> >
>>> > Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
>>> > for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
>>> > So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
>>> > click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
>>> > Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
>>> > Builder.
>>> >
>>> > Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
>>> > The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
>>> > blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
>>> > next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
>>> >
>>> > The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
>>> > (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
>>> > message:
>>> >
>>> >    The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
>>> >    Would you like to stop it?
>>> >
>>> > Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
>>> > so.
>>> >
>>> > I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
>>> > chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
>>> > Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
>>> > Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
>>> > suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
>>> > over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
>>> > tell Chrome to use this flag.)
>>> >
>>> > I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
>>> > apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
>>> > all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
>>> > Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
>>> > currently implemented as a global setting.
>>> >
>>> > Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
>>> > I log an enhancement request?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> >  - Mike Morearty
>>> >    Sr. Computer Scienstist
>>> >    Adobe Systems Inc.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Erik Kay]

Also, the inspector already disables the hang monitor dynamically when
it stops at a breakpoint since the renderer is stopped at that point,
so this may just be a case of exposing this on-off switch via some
API.

Erik


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Evan Martin  wrote:
>
> I guess there's a precedent in the inspector where you can enable
> various development-related bits (like "enable resource tracking").
> Maybe there's a reasonable place to hook in UI for that there.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
>> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
>> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
>> -Darin
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>>>
>>> We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
>>> potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
>>> in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
>>> would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
>>> tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
>>> would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
>>> our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.
>>>
>>> For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
>>> --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
>>> explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
>>> --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
>>> also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
>>> control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
>>> --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
>>> flag for just that one tab.
>>>
>>> Thanks!  - Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth  wrote:

 You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
 of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
 --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

 Adam


 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
 >
 > Hi,
 >
 > I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
 > team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
 > work even if Chrome is already running.
 >
 > Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
 > for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
 > So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
 > click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
 > Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
 > Builder.
 >
 > Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
 > The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
 > blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
 > next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
 >
 > The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
 > (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
 > message:
 >
 >    The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
 >    Would you like to stop it?
 >
 > Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
 > so.
 >
 > I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
 > chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
 > Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
 > Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
 > suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
 > over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
 > tell Chrome to use this flag.)
 >
 > I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
 > apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
 > all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
 > Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
 > currently implemented as a global setting.
 >
 > Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
 > I log an enhancement request?
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 >  - Mike Morearty
 >    Sr. Computer Scienstist
 >    Adobe Systems Inc.
 >
 > >
 >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Evan Martin]

I guess there's a precedent in the inspector where you can enable
various development-related bits (like "enable resource tracking").
Maybe there's a reasonable place to hook in UI for that there.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Darin Fisher  wrote:
> I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
> there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
>  Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
> -Darin
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>>
>> We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
>> potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
>> in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
>> would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
>> tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
>> would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
>> our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.
>>
>> For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
>> --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
>> explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
>> --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
>> also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
>> control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
>> --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
>> flag for just that one tab.
>>
>> Thanks!  - Mike
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth  wrote:
>>>
>>> You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
>>> of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
>>> --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
>>> > team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
>>> > work even if Chrome is already running.
>>> >
>>> > Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
>>> > for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
>>> > So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
>>> > click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
>>> > Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
>>> > Builder.
>>> >
>>> > Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
>>> > The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
>>> > blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
>>> > next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
>>> >
>>> > The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
>>> > (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
>>> > message:
>>> >
>>> >    The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
>>> >    Would you like to stop it?
>>> >
>>> > Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
>>> > so.
>>> >
>>> > I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
>>> > chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
>>> > Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
>>> > Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
>>> > suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
>>> > over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
>>> > tell Chrome to use this flag.)
>>> >
>>> > I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
>>> > apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
>>> > all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
>>> > Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
>>> > currently implemented as a global setting.
>>> >
>>> > Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
>>> > I log an enhancement request?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> >  - Mike Morearty
>>> >    Sr. Computer Scienstist
>>> >    Adobe Systems Inc.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Darin Fisher]

I think that is a reasonable feature request.  It would be nice however if
there were some way to know when to restore the old behavior.
 Unfortunately, Chrome won't know when you are done.
-Darin

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:

> We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
> potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
> in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
> would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
> tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
> would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
> our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.
>
> For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
> --disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
> explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
> --disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
> also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
> control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
> --disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
> flag for just that one tab.
>
> Thanks!  - Mike
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth  wrote:
>
>> You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
>> of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
>> --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
>> > team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
>> > work even if Chrome is already running.
>> >
>> > Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
>> > for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
>> > So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
>> > click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
>> > Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
>> > Builder.
>> >
>> > Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
>> > The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
>> > blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
>> > next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
>> >
>> > The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
>> > (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
>> > message:
>> >
>> >The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
>> >Would you like to stop it?
>> >
>> > Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
>> > so.
>> >
>> > I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
>> > chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
>> > Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
>> > Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
>> > suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
>> > over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
>> > tell Chrome to use this flag.)
>> >
>> > I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
>> > apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
>> > all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
>> > Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
>> > currently implemented as a global setting.
>> >
>> > Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
>> > I log an enhancement request?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >  - Mike Morearty
>> >Sr. Computer Scienstist
>> >Adobe Systems Inc.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[John Tamplin]

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:

> Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
> The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
> blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
> next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
>
> The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
> (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
> message:
>
>The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
>Would you like to stop it?
>
> Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
> so.
>
> I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
> chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
> Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
> Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
> suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
> over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
> tell Chrome to use this flag.)
>
> I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
> apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
> all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
> Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
> currently implemented as a global setting.
>
> Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
> I log an enhancement request?
>

I have the same problem in the GWT Development Mode plugin.  You could set a
breakpoint in your Java code in Eclipse, and as far as the browser sees the
NPAPI plugin is just hanging until the server lets it continue.
It seems like this might be a feature that a number of plugins would like to
control, yet you want to make sure it isn't abused by malicious plugins.
 What about an API call to disable/re-enable it, and control access to that
API with permissions in the manifest?

-- 
John A. Tamplin
Software Engineer (GWT), Google

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Mike Morearty]

We just discussed that, and decided against using it, because it could be
potentially confusing.  Most users would be unaware that we were launching
in a separate profile, and even someone who did know that we were doing this
would probably find it inconvenient.  For example, if he does open another
tab in the Chrome instance that we launched, and then browse for a bit, he
would now have two separate browser histories -- his main one and the one in
our separate user profile.  Could get to be a nuisance.

For now, I think we're going to go ahead and launch with
--disable-hang-monitor, and we may also write a tech note for our users
explaining the issue, and suggesting that if they want to, they can add
--disable-hang-monitor to the shortcut they use to launch Chrome.  I might
also log an enhancement request that if my new instance of Chrome passes
control to an existing instance, it also pass the value of the
--disable-hang-monitor flag, and that the existing instance respects that
flag for just that one tab.

Thanks!  - Mike


On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Adam Barth  wrote:

> You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
> of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
> --disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.
>
> Adam
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
> > team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
> > work even if Chrome is already running.
> >
> > Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
> > for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
> > So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
> > click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
> > Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
> > Builder.
> >
> > Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
> > The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
> > blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
> > next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
> >
> > The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
> > (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
> > message:
> >
> >The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
> >Would you like to stop it?
> >
> > Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
> > so.
> >
> > I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
> > chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
> > Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
> > Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
> > suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
> > over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
> > tell Chrome to use this flag.)
> >
> > I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
> > apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
> > all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
> > Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
> > currently implemented as a global setting.
> >
> > Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
> > I log an enhancement request?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >  - Mike Morearty
> >Sr. Computer Scienstist
> >Adobe Systems Inc.
> >
> > > >
> >
>

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[chromium-dev] Re: Enabling --disable-hang-monitor for new windows when Chrome is already running

[Adam Barth]

You can try using the --user-data-dir flag to point the test instance
of Chrome at a dedicated testing profile.  That will mean the
--disable-hang-monitor instance will actually stay around.

Adam


On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morearty  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm a developer at Adobe, on the Flash Builder (formerly Flex Builder)
> team.  I'm trying to figure out how to allow --disable-hang-monitor to
> work even if Chrome is already running.
>
> Flash Builder, for those who aren't familiar with it, is a full IDE
> for creating Flash (and AIR) apps; one of its features is a debugger.
> So let's say you create a new project, set a breakpoint, and then
> click Debug.  We launch your browser pointing at the Flash app; the
> Flash player that is inside the browser connects back to Flash
> Builder.
>
> Then let's say the Flash app hits the line where the breakpoint is.
> The Flash player notifies Flash Builder of the breakpoint, and then
> blocks, waiting on a socket until Flash Builder tells it what to do
> next (e.g. resume, single-step, etc.).
>
> The problem is that 30 seconds later, Chrome detects this as a hang
> (which it is, but it's a deliberate one), and puts up the usual
> message:
>
>    The following plug-in is unresponsive: Shockwave Flash
>    Would you like to stop it?
>
> Even if I say No, the message keeps reappearing every 30 seconds or
> so.
>
> I'd like to disable the message during debugging.  It's easy to launch
> chrome with --disable-hang-monitor, and that does work, but only if
> Chrome wasn't already running before I began my debugging session.  If
> Chrome *was* already running, then that flag has no effect.  (I
> suspect probably the new instance of chrome.exe just passed control
> over to the existing instance, or something like that, and did not
> tell Chrome to use this flag.)
>
> I realize this is somewhat tricky to do.  Ideally, that flag would
> apply to just the one tab or window that I tried to open, but not to
> all the other already-existing windows.  I have not yet looked at the
> Chrome/Chromium source code, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is
> currently implemented as a global setting.
>
> Is this feasible?  Is there some other way to do what I want?  Should
> I log an enhancement request?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  - Mike Morearty
>    Sr. Computer Scienstist
>    Adobe Systems Inc.
>
> >
>

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