Ok, then you consider Stallman's philosophy unethical since it considers
the philosophy of distributing close-source unethical.You should
probably understand Stallman's position on other things and how he's
behaved in regards to other projects (glibc, GCC, Gnome) to really
understand his
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mark markhanif...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, then you consider Stallman's philosophy unethical since it considers
the philosophy of distributing close-source unethical.
No, that would only be if he considered it unethical for someone to
disagree with him, rather
To be honest, I can't wait until we have something like that for Clojure.
Give me a fast, light, InteliJ based IDE that just works 100% of the
time, and I'd pay several hundred dollars for that software.
+1 to this.
I've used IntelliJ for years for Java, Javascript, HTML, SQL, ...
2013/7/28 Matt Hoffman m...@mhoffman.org:
To be honest, I can't wait until we have something like that for Clojure.
Give me a fast, light, InteliJ based IDE that just works 100% of the time,
and I'd pay several hundred dollars for that software.
+1 to this.
I've used IntelliJ for years for
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 6:52:37 AM UTC-5, Cedric Greevey wrote:
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mark markha...@gmail.com
javascript:wrote:
Ok, then you consider Stallman's philosophy unethical since it considers
the philosophy of distributing close-source unethical.
No, that would
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Mark markhanif...@gmail.com wrote:
So Stallman spins freeing code with freeing slaves. Obviously the guy
has some ethical problems of his own.
The claim that freeing something wrongly held isn't theft (in a moral
rather than legal sense), though the wrongful
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Mark markhanif...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 6:52:37 AM UTC-5, Cedric Greevey wrote:
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mark markha...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, then you consider Stallman's philosophy unethical since it
considers the philosophy of
On a related note (If I need to post this elsewhere, just let me know):
What do people use for ClojureCLR development? If I *ever *get started,
this is where I will need to be working.
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On Friday, July 26, 2013 2:23:33 PM UTC-5, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
There are many who agree with Richard Stallman that it is unethical to
distribute software without the source code.
And there are many who think it's unethical to have a philosophy that it's
unethical to distribute software
On 26 July 2013 09:53, Cedric Greevey wrote:
Would that include a contemporary user interface that can show trees
properly, do graphical diffs, and be quickly taken up by any reasonably
adept Windows or Mac user the way Eclipse, clooj, and IntelliJ can?
I don't speak for Håkan, but I don't
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Mark markhanif...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, July 26, 2013 2:23:33 PM UTC-5, Andy Fingerhut wrote:
There are many who agree with Richard Stallman that it is unethical to
distribute software without the source code.
And there are many who think it's
On 25 July 2013 21:55, Lee Spector wrote:
For Sean or anyone who finds Sean's narrative compelling (I do), imagine
emacs without the learning curve! I say it's possible and I point to the
long-extinct FRED (Fred Resembles Emacs Deliberately) that was part of
Macintosh Common Lisp as a proof
Would that include a contemporary user interface that can show trees
properly, do graphical diffs, and be quickly taken up by any reasonably
adept Windows or Mac user the way Eclipse, clooj, and IntelliJ can?
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 3:02 AM, Andrew Inggs amin...@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 July
Live-editing OpenGL under Quill (Processing) worked very well in CCW last
time I toyed with it.
On Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:27:37 PM UTC+2, Chris Gill wrote:
I find this interesting. I've been using light table mostly, but recently
I tried my hand at socket programming and light table
On Jul 25, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
When I started doing Clojure, I used TextMate so it was an obvious
choice to try Sublime Text 2. I tried it on Mac, Windows, and Linux
and it drove me insane with its quirks, bugs, inconsistencies across
platforms and
On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:15 PM, Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com wrote:
Someone makes free software plugins for nonfree software?!
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
You submit patches to nonfree software?!
I may regret asking this… but don't people
+1
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Timothy Baldridge tbaldri...@gmail.comwrote:
+1 to Charlie. If I ever went back to Python development I would plop down
whatever the going rate is for PyCharm (InteliJ Python IDE), that thing is
an awesome piece of tech. There are very few times I've been
On Jul 26, 2013, at 3:02 AM, Andrew Inggs wrote:
On 25 July 2013 21:55, Lee Spector wrote:
For Sean or anyone who finds Sean's narrative compelling (I do), imagine
emacs without the learning curve! I say it's possible and I point to the
long-extinct FRED (Fred Resembles Emacs Deliberately)
PS, I wrote:
but I don't know of any projects dedicated to providing a complete
emacs-based Clojure environment with the usability and lack of learning curve
of FRED.
I *do* know about https://mclide.com and
https://github.com/TerjeNorderhaug/mclide, and it's author Terje Norderhaug
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Charlie Griefer charlie.grie...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:15 PM, Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com wrote:
Someone makes free software plugins for nonfree software?!
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
You
Open-source developers are paid for their work in lots of ways that
may/may-not involve cash.
Commercial devs and products are not necessarily evil, and can be good for
the community.
Who cares if software gets bought over and over again? That's the beauty of
software! Competition actually
There are many who agree with Richard Stallman that it is unethical to
distribute software without the source code.
There are many who disagree with him, myself included. I think it is 100%
ethical to sell proprietary software, sans source code.
I only mention this in hopes that people
On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Gary Trakhman gary.trakh...@gmail.comwrote:
Open-source developers are paid for their work in lots of ways that
may/may-not involve cash.
But generally they're paid as they work, and if they stop working, they
stop getting paid, like in most jobs.
Of course,
I find this interesting. I've been using light table mostly, but recently I
tried my hand at socket programming and light table flopped on this type of
a project. I ended up using lein repl for most of my work which became a
pain and now I'm looking at emacs with a slight kink in my lips. I'll
Everyone has their preferences, and the best thing to do is to try it all and
pick what you like.
That said... here's my experience with IntelliJ, and others
Table of Contents:
1. On IntelliJ
2. On Emacs and Emacs Live
3. On Light Table
4. On Sublime Text (ST)
5. Conclusion
1. On IntelliJ
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
1. On IntelliJ
2. On Emacs and Emacs Live
3. On Light Table
4. On Sublime Text (ST)
5. Conclusion
I've tried IntelliJ several times and just can't on with the way it
operates. Clearly a very personal thing. I used to use
On Jul 25, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
In October 2011, I decided to give Emacs another chance - specifically
for Clojure development - and that's what I use day-in, day-out. I
have a slightly customized setup but it really doesn't have much
beyond the starter kit, rainbow
tl;dr: why not at least *try* Counterclockwise before skipping it
'because of Eclipse'? You may find its editor with paredit shortcuts
appealing. A full standalone Eclipse+Counterclockwise is available for
your platform here:
2013/7/26 Colin Fleming colin.mailingl...@gmail.com:
Hi Laurent,
Thanks for those links, I'll try the standalone version. I recently tried to
set up CCW, I got it running but several of the Paredit keybindings didn't
work for me and they didn't appear in the shortcut preferences either. I'm
Hello Cedric,
2013/7/26 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com:
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
Everyone has their preferences, and the best thing to do is to try it all
and pick what you like.
That said... here's my experience with IntelliJ, and others
Table
You can pick and choose your level of bloat with emacs.
It's pretty good at being a lisp editor. I don't customize mine much, been
using it for a year and a half, and I was 80% as productive as I am now
within just a few weeks, though I realize there's a lifetime left to learn.
Starter-kit +
Laurent is correct - both the IntelliJ community edition and La Clojure are
Apache licensed.
On 26 July 2013 11:02, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Cedric,
2013/7/26 Cedric Greevey cgree...@gmail.com:
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
Nope, it's perfectly functional as long as all you want is basic
functionality - Java, XML/XPath/XSLT, Git/SVN, Android, Maven/Ant, Groovy,
JUnit/TestNG and of course Clojure if you install La Clojure. If you want
any of the Enterprise Java stuff you have to go to the Ultimate edition.
Probably
Would agree with Laurent. For newbies, I would not recommend anything apart
from Eclipse. It's really stable and I have been using it for multiple
projects over the past year. It just work. I really love the integrated
REPL and ability to debug with breakpoints.
I spent 5-6 years with Eclipse
Indeed - I was using a community-edition intellij setup the other day, and
only realised when I went to edit some JavaScript, and found some features
missing (like code indenting).
We use intellij (mostly) in our team at work, and I use emacs (mostly) at
home.
My current take on this endless
'jumping to a symbol's definition (and back again)? Those didn't seem to
be there last time, and I'd struggle to live without them on a project of
any size.'
Besides paredit, this is absolutely the most important feature for me
day-to-day. Nothing will replace emacs unless it has that. The
I'm developing a stand-alone paredit widget, basically connecting
paredit.clj to a swing text area.
As part of my research, I've spent the last few days looking into intellij,
and the la clojure source.
One gets the feeling that eclipse and netbeans have hit a wall of
designed-by-committee
On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:22 PM, Anand Prakash wrote:
Would agree with Laurent. For newbies, I would not recommend anything apart
from Eclipse.
For real newbies I'd second the earlier mention of clooj. It's really the
simplest thing to get and use that integrates a Clojure-aware editor and a
'jumping to a symbol's definition (and back again)? Those didn't seem to be
there last time, and I'd struggle to live without them on a project of any
size.'
Besides paredit, this is absolutely the most important feature for me
day-to-day. Nothing will replace emacs unless it has that.
You submit patches to nonfree software?!
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
'jumping to a symbol's definition (and back again)? Those didn't seem to
be there last time, and I'd struggle to live without them on a project of
any size.'
Besides paredit, this
You submit patches to nonfree software?!
How do you make a screwy-eyed emoticon?
The plugin is free software. ST is nagware. Oh, and IntelliJ, as others have
already pointed out, is also free software (community edition, which is great).
-Greg
--
Please do not email me anything that you are
BTW, if anyone here has decent Python experience and wants to try out Sublime
for Clojure development, the plugin I linked to could really be improved by
supporting regular expressions... :-)
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with
the NSA.
On Jul 25,
Someone makes free software plugins for nonfree software?!
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Greg g...@kinostudios.com wrote:
You submit patches to nonfree software?!
How do you make a screwy-eyed emoticon?
The plugin is free software. ST is nagware. Oh, and IntelliJ, as others
have
it happens all the time.
In a sense, it's not weirder than making free software for proprietary
operating systems 8)
On Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:15:15 PM UTC-4, Cedric Greevey wrote:
Someone makes free software plugins for nonfree software?!
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You received this message because you
Seems a bit more at risk from the vendor goes kaput, though. It's far
easier to imagine the vendor of Sublime Text going out of business than
either Apple or Microsoft doing likewise.
Of course, none of what I said applies to plugins that adhere to a standard
implemented by both free and nonfree
Sure, it's not as weird as it sounds. Some of us would rather pay to have
reliable tools, but still want to customise them. There are several free
plugins for IntelliJ Ultimate, which as usual are people scratching their
own itch. See also the people who spend a huge amount of time customising
Another vote for Eclipse/CCW over Netbeans and IntelliJ. I used all three,
and CCW's development has proven to be consistently better than plugins for
the other IDE's. Both CCW's excellent Leiningen and REPL support, as the
option to link projects when working on multiple sources at the same
2013/1/31 Niels van Klaveren niels.vanklave...@gmail.com:
Another vote for Eclipse/CCW over Netbeans and IntelliJ. I used all three,
and CCW's development has proven to be consistently better than plugins for
the other IDE's. Both CCW's excellent Leiningen and REPL support, as the
option to
I have programming Clojure for almost 2 years, for a living.
Emacs is highly recommended.
Emacs Lisp = lisp, Clojure is also Lisp. Emacs has special support for
Lisp than others.
As for intellj: I think it's quite good. Emacs is the perfect one.
On Monday, January 28, 2013 7:37:54 PM
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Feng Shen shen...@gmail.com wrote:
I have programming Clojure for almost 2 years, for a living.
This is probably an important part of what answer the OP is looking
for. When I was doing Clojure for about 10% of my job IntelliJ was
fine. Now that it's 90% of my
Hello Jay,
I'd like to learn a little bit more from what makes you prefer emacs
over IntelliJ.
As the main developer of Counterclockwise, I'm I could learn some
ideas, if not lessons, from your experience.
Some questions and remarks inline:
2013/1/28 Jay Fields j...@jayfields.com:
I used
i don't know emacs, so i would like to know as well what the killer
features are that make you more productive with emacs
2013/1/29 Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com
Hello Jay,
I'd like to learn a little bit more from what makes you prefer emacs
over IntelliJ.
As the main developer of
On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@gmail.com wrote:
i don't know emacs, so i would like to know as well what the killer features
are that make you more productive with emacs
With the caveat that I've not used Eclipse or IntelliJ for Clojure development…
one thing that I
On Jan 29, 2013, at 08:50, Dennis Haupt wrote:
i don't know emacs, so i would like to know as well what the killer features
are that make you more productive with emacs
Me two. More generally, I'm interested in features that DON'T require filling
my head with zillions of obscure key sequences.
I worked with one of the first version of Emacs written in Teco on a DEC-20 in
the 80s
then on unixes and VMS computer. I still remember some key bindings but I need
to
resort to online help a lot to bring back key bindings in my working memory.
We use Eclipse/ccw but I think that the same
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Jay,
I'd like to learn a little bit more from what makes you prefer emacs
over IntelliJ.
As the main developer of Counterclockwise, I'm I could learn some
ideas, if not lessons, from your experience.
Sure,
Rich, almost all keystrokes have names you can use from M-x - if you
prefer that to keystrokes.
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com wrote:
On Jan 29, 2013, at 08:50, Dennis Haupt wrote:
i don't know emacs, so i would like to know as well what the killer features
are that
Question: Is this emacs also good in other stuff such as
javascript/css/html/sql Most of my projects involve writing this as
well . Does anyone have a link to an up to date instructions on how to
setup emacs for clojure ? most of what i find are out of date... e.g some
talk of swank-clojure
On 29.01.2013 16:32, Jay Fields wrote:
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Feng Shen shen...@gmail.com wrote:
I have programming Clojure for almost 2 years, for a living.
This is probably an important part of what answer the OP is looking
for. When I was doing Clojure for about 10% of my job
I use it for Clojure, html, css, js - no sql tho, so I can't comment
on that. Otherwise, everything is great.
I use emacs-live, which you can add to a vanilla emacs install and get
right started. All you need to nrepl-jack-in.
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Josh Kamau joshnet2...@gmail.com
Thanks Jay... Emacs live looks funtastic... I will give emacs another try.
Josh
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Jay Fields j...@jayfields.com wrote:
I use it for Clojure, html, css, js - no sql tho, so I can't comment
on that. Otherwise, everything is great.
I use emacs-live, which you
+1 emacs live
Id seriously discourage any Emacs newbie trying vanilla Emacs for Clojure
development.
Here, I'd also like to express my greatest appreciation to the creators for
publishing and maintaining it.
Las
Sent from my phone
On Jan 29, 2013 7:48 PM, Jay Fields j...@jayfields.com wrote:
Jay Fields writes:
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Jay,
I'd like to learn a little bit more from what makes you prefer emacs
over IntelliJ.
As the main developer of Counterclockwise, I'm I could learn some
ideas, if not lessons, from
Am 29.01.2013 23:05, schrieb Phil Hagelberg:
Jay Fields writes:
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Jay,
I'd like to learn a little bit more from what makes you prefer emacs
over IntelliJ.
As the main developer of Counterclockwise, I'm
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@gmail.com wrote:
you can do repl driven development with intellij as well i think.
I'm pretty sure Phil meant you can modify your editor (Emacs) using a
REPL-driven approach - which is not true of IntellIj.
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904)
On Jan 29, 2013, at 14:05, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
While it's great to list features, the specific features really aren't
the point--the point is that new features can be added with very little
friction. ...
This begs the question: what would be the lowest amount of friction that
we should try
I could define repl driven development in a lot of ways. If I'm in a
clj file is there an easy way to evaluate a sexp in the context of the
repl? Just having a repl that I cut and paste from is not a similar
experience.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 29, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Dennis Haupt
On Jan 29, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Rich Morin wrote:
This begs the question: what would be the lowest amount of friction that
we should try for? One answer, it seems to me, is that there should be
an easy way to add features _using Clojure_. I realize that this would
not be a general solution,
2013/1/29 Rich Morin r...@cfcl.com:
On Jan 29, 2013, at 14:05, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
While it's great to list features, the specific features really aren't
the point--the point is that new features can be added with very little
friction. ...
This begs the question: what would be the lowest
2013/1/29 Jay Fields j...@jayfields.com:
I could define repl driven development in a lot of ways. If I'm in a
clj file is there an easy way to evaluate a sexp in the context of the
repl? Just having a repl that I cut and paste from is not a similar
experience.
Of course CCW does that for
the only ides i have used so far for clojure are intellij idea and
netbeans. is there one that is a lot better? if yes, why?
i am not interested in details or single features, i just want to know if
there is some magic editor out there that i should look into because it is
*obviously a lot* better
IMHO,
All IDEs are good. However, when it comes to clojure development, it
depends on the quality of the plugin. Is the plugin still being maintained
and improved? Counterclockwise plugin for eclipse is very popular. La
clojure plugin for intellij is also very good. Its maintained by the same
I used IntelliJ for clojure dev for almost 3 years. About six months ago I
finally took the time to learn emacs, and I strongly regret not doing it
much earlier. There are too many reasons to list, but it all comes down to
a simple question for me: do you want the ability to easily automate tasks
You should keep an eye on LightTable. It is still in very early
development, but at some point this year it may well become the best
environment to use for Clojure coding:
http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/11/05/meet-the-new-light-table/
On Jan 28, 6:37 am, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@gmail.com
On Monday, 28 January 2013 19:37:54 UTC+8, HamsterofDeath wrote:
the only ides i have used so far for clojure are intellij idea and
netbeans. is there one that is a lot better? if yes, why?
i am not interested in details or single features, i just want to know if
there is some magic editor
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