Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on increasing 
battery and charging capacity.  

Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more and 
better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a refrigeration load 
under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue page titled “Marine 
refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has a  Frigoboat unit with 
keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their CoolBlue system consumes “24AH/Day 
for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with R-30” and “operates at ambient 
temperatures up to 120F without a loss in system efficiency.”   Even the 
Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve loads under 20AH/day.   Now making 
ice or cooling down warm beer on a really hot day will likely have higher load 
demands, but the message is still the same.  Insulation is cheaper than 
batteries and lasts a lot longer too.



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:02 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Lets consider some hypothetical numbers based on the rep's info.  If a 100w
> panel were %100 effective and operated for 8 hours, you would get 800w-hrs
> of power per day.  800w divided by 12v = 67amp-hrs.  67 divided by 24hrs =
> 2.8amps current draw on average.
> 
> That kinda gives you a ball park for what type of loads you'll be facing.
> Round up to 5amps/hr if you like for margin.  5 *24=120AHr per day.  
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
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Stus-List Aqua Signal Impossible Bolt

[Len Mitchell via CnC-List]

David, I am catching up on my email this morning. I recently replaced my 
running lights with LEDs and I have the bolt you are looking for. Ron said he 
may have one and he may have already solved your bolt issue. Let me know if you 
still need one. 
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs 
1989 37+
Midland On.
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

A little late to this thread, but here goes:
Batteries, alternators, and regulators are a SYSTEM and you need to pick them 
all to work together for best results.
A big alternator does you absolutely NO GOOD without a good temperature sensing 
3 stage regulator. With a stock fixed set point regulator, you’ll either be set 
too low and get very little benefit from a big alternator, or too high and ruin 
expensive batteries. The 3-stage regulator charges fast when batteries are low 
and then backs off when they get full. The temperature sensors allow the 
regulator to back off if either the batteries or the alternator overheat.
AGM batteries are far from a cure-all for battery issues and I personally do 
not like them.
Quick rundown of battery types:

1.  Car batteries. Die quickly in marine service, but they are cheap.

2.  Gel batteries. These were the first commonly available gelled 
electrolyte batteries. They can charge quickly and their self-discharge is very 
low. They don’t leak and don’t off-gas unless badly abused. They won’t leak 
acid if damaged. Their cycle life is good in deep cycle use. Their big drawback 
is over-charging kills them very fast. They have very specific charge voltages 
that must be used.

3.  AGM batteries. These are now the most common gelled/solid electrolyte 
batteries. They are popular for the same reasons gels are but without the 
sensitivity to high charge voltages. They can drop-in to boats, cars, and 
airplanes without a special regulator. Their drawbacks are significant compared 
to gels. The cycle-life of the commonly available AGMs is about half that of 
gels at the same discharge levels. They too have very specific charge 
requirements, but the opposite way that gels do. They *have to* be brought to 
100% charge every so often or they lose capacity quickly. Boats not on shore 
power and without significant solar will have a very hard time with this. 
Please note that neither gel nor AGM have any advantage over wet cells for 
amp-hours per cubic inch, i.e. a 4D gel, 4D agm, and 4D wet cell are all about 
the same capacity.

4.  Traction batteries. These batteries are designed for electric cars, 
electric golf carts, floor sweepers, fork lifts, and other types of electric 
vehicles. They are made for rough service in both senses, they routinely get 
discharged deeply and get banged around. The most commonly used size is the 6 
volt golf cart battery and they are – by a HUGE margin – the cheapest batteries 
if you analyze the cost per AH, even when deeply discharged. They can be boiled 
to death or sulfated to death if you really try, but they are pretty tolerant 
of charging issues over the short term. You can always add water or equalize. 
Their drawbacks are higher self-discharge (not a big deal anymore with solar 
IMHO) and the big one IMHO – they contain liquid and off-gas hydrogen and acid 
fumes. The safe mounting requirements for wet cells are much more stringent 
than gel types. Long story made short  - I had a wet cell crack and leak all 
the acid into the bilge during a hurricane and the smell did not add to the 
enjoyment of the trip at all. Oh – did I mention they are cheap? 220 AH for 
maybe $160 or so.

5.   Lithium-Ion batteries are far superior in all ways to any of the above 
if you have a large container of $100 bills to devote to the project.


Please keep in mind $1 of insulation in your icebox is probably worth $3 of 
electrical work ☺

Joe
Coquina



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dreuge via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 9:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dreuge
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator


If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on increasing 
battery and charging capacity.

Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more and 
better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a refrigeration load 
under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue page titled “Marine 
refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has a  Frigoboat unit with 
keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their CoolBlue system consumes “24AH/Day 
for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with R-30” and “operates at ambient 
temperatures up to 120F without a loss in system efficiency.”   Even the 
Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve loads under 20AH/day.   Now making 
ice or cooling down warm beer on a really hot day will likely have higher load 
demands, but the message is still the same.  Insulation is cheaper than 
batteries and lasts a lot longer too.



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:02 PM, 
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

Lets consider some hypothetical numbers based on the rep's info.  If a 100w
panel were %100 effective and operated for 8 hours, you would get 

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Paul, Thanks for these more accurate "ratings".  It definitely helps to
give an answer to the question of "what does good look like?"  I have never
saught out actual ratings for refrigerator loads and I've never gotten a
AHr meter installed - besides the plethora of variables which make single
point AHr usage almost impossible to  determine.  It seemed like nobody
else had provided a frame of reference besides examples of their own setup
and I was kinda trying to describe a worst case numbers scenario to provide
an upper boundary to the project.  Your numbers bring further clarity by
providing a lower boundary.

You and other listers are absolutely correct that adding insulation is the
best way to reduce refrigerator AHr load.

Thanks,
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:20 AM Dreuge via CnC-List 
wrote:

>
> If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on
> increasing battery and charging capacity.
>
> Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more and
> better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a refrigeration
> load under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue page titled
> “Marine refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has a  Frigoboat
> unit with keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their CoolBlue system
> consumes “24AH/Day for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with R-30” and
> “operates at ambient temperatures up to 120F without a loss in system
> efficiency.”   Even the Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve loads
> under 20AH/day.   Now making ice or cooling down warm beer on a really hot
> day will likely have higher load demands, but the message is still the
> same.  Insulation is cheaper than batteries and lasts a lot longer too.
>
>
>
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
> On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:02 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Lets consider some hypothetical numbers based on the rep's info.  If a 100w
> panel were %100 effective and operated for 8 hours, you would get 800w-hrs
> of power per day.  800w divided by 12v = 67amp-hrs.  67 divided by 24hrs =
> 2.8amps current draw on average.
>
> That kinda gives you a ball park for what type of loads you'll be facing.
> Round up to 5amps/hr if you like for margin.  5 *24=120AHr per day.
>
> ___
>
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up
> again.  October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a
> small contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send
> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List C 35 mk ii rudder removal question

[John Rand via CnC-List]

I have a C 35 Mk II and I would like to drop the rudder.



I have removed the Edson Marine steering quadrant.  The quadrant was
wrapped around a piece which is in turn wrapped around the rudder shaft.
This piece has the rectangular key which matches with the quadrant.



I can’t see any bolts on the piece, or any way to remove it (which I will
have to do to drop the rudder).



Would anyone have a clue about how to remove this?



Thanks in advance.



John
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List C 35 mk ii rudder removal question

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The MK I has a collar – do you see a collar around the shaft?

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Rand 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 1:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John Rand 
Subject: Stus-List C 35 mk ii rudder removal question

I have a C 35 Mk II and I would like to drop the rudder.

I have removed the Edson Marine steering quadrant.  The quadrant was wrapped 
around a piece which is in turn wrapped around the rudder shaft.  This piece 
has the rectangular key which matches with the quadrant.

I can’t see any bolts on the piece, or any way to remove it (which I will have 
to do to drop the rudder).

Would anyone have a clue about how to remove this?

Thanks in advance.

John
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List C 35 mk ii rudder removal question

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Probably. The MK I collar is below decks.

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Rand 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 1:28 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John Rand 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C 35 mk ii rudder removal question

Hi Joe,

I see a collar above the deck.  It has a set screw.  I am guessing that if I 
remove the set screw and unscrew the collar from the shaft, the shaft would be 
free to drop, except for this piece which is below the deck, where the quadrant 
was.

Does that sound right?

John

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> wrote:
The MK I has a collar – do you see a collar around the shaft?

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of John Rand via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 1:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John Rand >
Subject: Stus-List C 35 mk ii rudder removal question

I have a C 35 Mk II and I would like to drop the rudder.

I have removed the Edson Marine steering quadrant.  The quadrant was wrapped 
around a piece which is in turn wrapped around the rudder shaft.  This piece 
has the rectangular key which matches with the quadrant.

I can’t see any bolts on the piece, or any way to remove it (which I will have 
to do to drop the rudder).

Would anyone have a clue about how to remove this?

Thanks in advance.

John

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

With a small battery bank you will not benefit from the larger alternator.
The batteries can't absorb a charge that quickly.

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:25 PM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Let me expound a bit on alternators and engine size.   When replaced my
> dumb alternator with a Balmar set-up (alternator, smart Charger, digital
> Duo etc ) on my 33 hp diesel Balmar recommended no more than the 80 amp
> because of the loss of HP which I could ill afford.
>
>
> If you have HP to spare...go for it.   If not reconsider.
>
>
>
> 1981 40-2
>
> David F. Risch
>
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 16, 2017 12:47 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator
>
> Paul, Thanks for these more accurate "ratings".  It definitely helps to
> give an answer to the question of "what does good look like?"  I have never
> saught out actual ratings for refrigerator loads and I've never gotten a
> AHr meter installed - besides the plethora of variables which make single
> point AHr usage almost impossible to  determine.  It seemed like nobody
> else had provided a frame of reference besides examples of their own setup
> and I was kinda trying to describe a worst case numbers scenario to provide
> an upper boundary to the project.  Your numbers bring further clarity by
> providing a lower boundary.
>
> You and other listers are absolutely correct that adding insulation is the
> best way to reduce refrigerator AHr load.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:20 AM Dreuge via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on
>> increasing battery and charging capacity.
>>
>> Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more
>> and better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a
>> refrigeration load under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue
>> page titled “Marine refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has
>> a  Frigoboat unit with keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their
>> CoolBlue system consumes “24AH/Day for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with
>> R-30” and “operates at ambient temperatures up to 120F without a loss in
>> system efficiency.”   Even the Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve
>> loads under 20AH/day.   Now making ice or cooling down warm beer on a
>> really hot day will likely have higher load demands, but the message is
>> still the same.  Insulation is cheaper than batteries and lasts a lot
>> longer too.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Paul E.
>> 1981 C 38 Landfall
>> S/V Johanna Rose
>> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>>
>> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>> 
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:02 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>>
>> Lets consider some hypothetical numbers based on the rep's info.  If a
>> 100w
>> panel were %100 effective and operated for 8 hours, you would get 800w-hrs
>> of power per day.  800w divided by 12v = 67amp-hrs.  67 divided by 24hrs =
>> 2.8amps current draw on average.
>>
>> That kinda gives you a ball park for what type of loads you'll be facing.
>> Round up to 5amps/hr if you like for margin.  5 *24=120AHr per day.
>>
>> ___
>>
>> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up
>> again.  October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a
>> small contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send
>> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>>
>> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>
> ___
>
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up
> again.  October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a
> small contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send
> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All 

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[David via CnC-List]

Let me expound a bit on alternators and engine size.   When replaced my dumb 
alternator with a Balmar set-up (alternator, smart Charger, digital Duo etc ) 
on my 33 hp diesel Balmar recommended no more than the 80 amp because of the 
loss of HP which I could ill afford.


If you have HP to spare...go for it.   If not reconsider.



1981 40-2

David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)



From: CnC-List  on behalf of Josh Muckley via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:47 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

Paul, Thanks for these more accurate "ratings".  It definitely helps to give an 
answer to the question of "what does good look like?"  I have never saught out 
actual ratings for refrigerator loads and I've never gotten a AHr meter 
installed - besides the plethora of variables which make single point AHr usage 
almost impossible to  determine.  It seemed like nobody else had provided a 
frame of reference besides examples of their own setup and I was kinda trying 
to describe a worst case numbers scenario to provide an upper boundary to the 
project.  Your numbers bring further clarity by providing a lower boundary.

You and other listers are absolutely correct that adding insulation is the best 
way to reduce refrigerator AHr load.

Thanks,
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:20 AM Dreuge via CnC-List 
> wrote:

If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on increasing 
battery and charging capacity.

Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more and 
better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a refrigeration load 
under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue page titled “Marine 
refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has a  Frigoboat unit with 
keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their CoolBlue system consumes “24AH/Day 
for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with R-30” and “operates at ambient 
temperatures up to 120F without a loss in system efficiency.”   Even the 
Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve loads under 20AH/day.   Now making 
ice or cooling down warm beer on a really hot day will likely have higher load 
demands, but the message is still the same.  Insulation is cheaper than 
batteries and lasts a lot longer too.



-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:02 PM, 
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

Lets consider some hypothetical numbers based on the rep's info.  If a 100w
panel were %100 effective and operated for 8 hours, you would get 800w-hrs
of power per day.  800w divided by 12v = 67amp-hrs.  67 divided by 24hrs =
2.8amps current draw on average.

That kinda gives you a ball park for what type of loads you'll be facing.
Round up to 5amps/hr if you like for margin.  5 *24=120AHr per day.
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List First Haul Out/ Winter Layup

[Chad Osmond via CnC-List]

I'd suggest removing all the heavy stuff before you haul out, otherwise
you're sending it down a rope.
Get a hot water tank bypass if you don't already have one.

Get some clear tubing in various sizes, I like to detach our water lines
from the tanks to use them with a hose, directly into the bottle, to keep
the antifreeze out of the tanks.

For the engine, I cut the water intake and will plumb in a T valve in the
spring, because removing the intake off the barbed connector is impossible.
Some people pour directly down the water strainer, but I have a hard enough
time getting the motor winterized as it is.

Buy about 6 jugs of plumbing antifreeze, you'll have lots left over, but
it's better to be excessive then have something break.

Don't forget your water intakes for toilet and sink (if you have a foot
pump). I found it easier to siphon the antifreeze down a hose, then stick
the hose up the intake hole while someone else pumped from inside, this
made it easier then taking the hoses off.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> here is a really good tutorial on the fresh water system.
>
> http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/water_system_winterizing
>
> Danny
>
> On 10/16/2017 2:42 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I'm hauling out for the first time on Wednesday. Any tips for someone who
> is new to the whole operation? Are there any last minute things I should do
> while the boat is in the water? Anything I should do as soon as the boat
> comes out that aren't covered on the winterizing checklist?
> (I'm using the list at http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/winterizing/
> winterizing.htm)
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> --
> ---
> Thomas C. Delaney
> 917-337-5524 <(917)%20337-5524>
>
>
> ___
>
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up
> again.  October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a
> small contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send
> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List First Haul Out/ Winter Layup

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Normal stuff plus - 

Scrub and pump out bilge prior to haul,  check hull for blisters immediately 
when hauled and gouge now to allow to dry for spring repair.   ( I get 1 or 2 
per year.)
Open all lockers lift cushions to permit air movement, leave holding tank fill 
open to air out over winter (if boat is covered)
I remove instrument sender to permit air movement as well.
I leave batteries in, leave shore power cable accessible (hanging below cover 
coiled on prop shaft) and charge periodically over the winter.

Dave.  33-2







Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Thomas Delaney  wrote:
> 
> Hi Listers,
> 
> I'm hauling out for the first time on Wednesday. Any tips for someone who is 
> new to the whole operation? Are there any last minute things I should do 
> while the boat is in the water? Anything I should do as soon as the boat 
> comes out that aren't covered on the winterizing checklist? 
> (I'm using the list at 
> http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/winterizing/winterizing.htm) 
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> -- 
> --- 
> Thomas C. Delaney
> 917-337-5524
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List First Haul Out/ Winter Layup

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi Tom,

here is a really good tutorial on the fresh water system.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/water_system_winterizing

Danny


On 10/16/2017 2:42 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Listers,

I'm hauling out for the first time on Wednesday. Any tips for someone 
who is new to the whole operation? Are there any last minute things I 
should do while the boat is in the water? Anything I should do as soon 
as the boat comes out that aren't covered on the winterizing checklist?
(I'm using the list at 
http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/winterizing/winterizing.htm)


Thanks,
Tom
--
---
Thomas C. Delaney
917-337-5524


___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Not only will they not absorb the charge quickly enough, exceeding the
charge rate will boil the batteries more than staying within the charging
guidelines.  An alternator that is too big for the bank will seriously risk
damaging the batteries.

Larger alternators under full load will also strain the v-belt.  Additional
tention will need to be applied to prevent the belt from slipping.  The
additional tension puts additional side loads on the crankshaft end
bearing.

Lets also remember that full output is only achieved under full RPM.  Many
people enjoy the idea of idling along or running the engine for a few hours
in neutral.  Not only does this not achieve the full rated output of the
alternator but it can also coke up the exhaust elbow and glaze the
cylinders.  Diesel engines should be run at 80% as often as possible and
for as long as possible.

Josh

On Oct 16, 2017 2:19 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

With a small battery bank you will not benefit from the larger alternator.
The batteries can't absorb a charge that quickly.

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#m_-130102601331710736_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:25 PM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Let me expound a bit on alternators and engine size.   When replaced my
> dumb alternator with a Balmar set-up (alternator, smart Charger, digital
> Duo etc ) on my 33 hp diesel Balmar recommended no more than the 80 amp
> because of the loss of HP which I could ill afford.
>
>
> If you have HP to spare...go for it.   If not reconsider.
>
>
>
> 1981 40-2
>
> David F. Risch
>
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 16, 2017 12:47 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator
>
> Paul, Thanks for these more accurate "ratings".  It definitely helps to
> give an answer to the question of "what does good look like?"  I have never
> saught out actual ratings for refrigerator loads and I've never gotten a
> AHr meter installed - besides the plethora of variables which make single
> point AHr usage almost impossible to  determine.  It seemed like nobody
> else had provided a frame of reference besides examples of their own setup
> and I was kinda trying to describe a worst case numbers scenario to provide
> an upper boundary to the project.  Your numbers bring further clarity by
> providing a lower boundary.
>
> You and other listers are absolutely correct that adding insulation is the
> best way to reduce refrigerator AHr load.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:20 AM Dreuge via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on
>> increasing battery and charging capacity.
>>
>> Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more
>> and better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a
>> refrigeration load under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue
>> page titled “Marine refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has
>> a  Frigoboat unit with keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their
>> CoolBlue system consumes “24AH/Day for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with
>> R-30” and “operates at ambient temperatures up to 120F without a loss in
>> system efficiency.”   Even the Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve
>> loads under 20AH/day.   Now making ice or cooling down warm beer on a
>> really hot day will likely have higher load demands, but the message is
>> still the same.  Insulation is cheaper than batteries and lasts a lot
>> longer too.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Paul E.
>> 1981 C 38 Landfall
>> S/V Johanna Rose
>> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>>
>> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>> 
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 2:02 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>>
>> Lets consider some hypothetical numbers based on the rep's info.  If a
>> 100w
>> panel were %100 effective and operated for 8 hours, you would get 800w-hrs
>> of power per day.  800w divided by 12v = 67amp-hrs.  67 divided by 24hrs =
>> 2.8amps current draw on average.
>>
>> That kinda gives you a ball park for what type of loads you'll be facing.
>> Round up to 5amps/hr if you like for margin.  5 *24=120AHr per day.
>>
>> 

Stus-List First Haul Out/ Winter Layup

[Thomas Delaney via CnC-List]

Hi Listers,

I'm hauling out for the first time on Wednesday. Any tips for someone who
is new to the whole operation? Are there any last minute things I should do
while the boat is in the water? Anything I should do as soon as the boat
comes out that aren't covered on the winterizing checklist?
(I'm using the list at
http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/winterizing/winterizing.htm)

Thanks,
Tom
-- 
---
Thomas C. Delaney
917-337-5524
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[coltrek via CnC-List]

This is all really good information, and I wished that I had read and digested 
it a year or so ago. Those are exactly the voltages I am seeing on mine now, 
and I'm glad to know that is just what it is supposed to do.   I mentioned 
something earlier this summer about burning a couple of alternator  belts up. 
Well, I have 125 amp Balmer alternator, and the Balmar smart regulator. And I 
think I had it set to 95% charge, which was as I recall recommended on their 
chart. But, for some reason that sucker was charging its little heart out, and 
burning belts up like crazy. I think something was wrong with my heart 
interface because I later discovered the inverter was stuck on. That was 
another problem. Later, I reset the heart back to factory defaults, and it 
started working perfectly again. This time, I never made any adjustments to it 
or set the battery amp hours or anything. It's working perfectly, so I'm 
letting sleeping dogs lie. However, the ballmart rep recommended cutting it 
down to 65% charge on the smart regulator, and I haven't felt any need to 
change that since them. Although, I did get the alternator temperature 
regulator, tied into the smart regulator.  Once you go through one of these 
things in strange ports, you never want experience  them again.


Regards,
Bill ColemanC 39

 Original message 
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
Date: 10/16/17  21:32  (GMT-05:00) 
To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley  
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator 

Joe, the damage I was considering would be caused by exceeding the charge rate 
for the bank size.  The conventional wisdom is that typical lead acid batteries 
should not be charged at a rate greater than 25% of their capacity.  A 100 AHr 
battery would be limited to 25 amps.  Isn't it possible to exceed the charge 
rate with a good regulator?  Particularly applicable when the battery is more 
deeply discharged.
 All of the 3 and 4 stage regulators I've ever seen will ramp up to max amps 
and hold there until ~14.6 volts is reached (80% full - end of bulk charge) at 
which time the voltage will be held constant at ~14.6v as the amps are reduced. 
 Once the amps lower to ~2amps the regulator shifts to float mode and lowers 
the voltage to ~13.3v and holds it indefinitely.
As an example lets say that you are using a 100 amp alternator and regulator to 
charge a 100AHr battery bank that has been discharged to 50% capacity.  Isn't 
it likely that the charge current will ramp to 100 amps?  Or at least greater 
than 25 amps?  What other regulator function would prevent this from happening? 
 I suppose battery temperature could input to the alternator so as to reduce 
charge current.  Though, I'm not sure that battery temperature responds quickly 
enough to prevent early over current damage, only overcurrent damage as a 
result of longer term charging current which has been applied long enough to 
raise temperature to the threshold.
Josh 

On Oct 16, 2017 3:01 PM, "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
 wrote:








Wrecking batteries with a big alternator is why you need a good regulator. If 
you are counting on the alternator itself to just be unable to do any damage 
because
 it can’t, you are taking a big risk or and have a very suboptimal charging 
setup.
For an extreme example, given a decent regulator, a 1000 amp alternator should 
do no harm and you can very much destroy batteries with a 35 amp alternator.
 I once worked on a boat whose genset had a 35 amp alternator set to 16 volts. 
The owner was buying several batteries a year and didn’t know why.
 
Joe
Coquina
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 2:50 PM

To: C List 

Cc: Josh Muckley 

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator
 

Not only will they not absorb the charge quickly enough, exceeding the charge 
rate will boil the batteries more than staying within the charging guidelines.  
An alternator that is too big for the bank will seriously risk damaging the 
batteries.

 


Larger alternators under full load will also strain the v-belt.  Additional 
tention will need to be applied to prevent the belt from slipping.  The 
additional tension puts additional side loads on the crankshaft end bearing.  


 


Lets also remember that full output is only achieved under full RPM.  Many 
people enjoy the idea of idling along or running the engine for a few hours in 
neutral.  Not only does this not achieve the full rated output of the 
alternator but
 it can also coke up the exhaust elbow and glaze the cylinders.  Diesel engines 
should be run at 80% as often as possible and for as long as possible.

 


Josh 




 

On Oct 16, 2017 2:19 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List"  
wrote:


With a small battery 

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Wrecking batteries with a big alternator is why you need a good regulator. If 
you are counting on the alternator itself to just be unable to do any damage 
because it can’t, you are taking a big risk or and have a very suboptimal 
charging setup.
For an extreme example, given a decent regulator, a 1000 amp alternator should 
do no harm and you can very much destroy batteries with a 35 amp alternator. I 
once worked on a boat whose genset had a 35 amp alternator set to 16 volts. The 
owner was buying several batteries a year and didn’t know why.

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 2:50 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

Not only will they not absorb the charge quickly enough, exceeding the charge 
rate will boil the batteries more than staying within the charging guidelines.  
An alternator that is too big for the bank will seriously risk damaging the 
batteries.

Larger alternators under full load will also strain the v-belt.  Additional 
tention will need to be applied to prevent the belt from slipping.  The 
additional tension puts additional side loads on the crankshaft end bearing.

Lets also remember that full output is only achieved under full RPM.  Many 
people enjoy the idea of idling along or running the engine for a few hours in 
neutral.  Not only does this not achieve the full rated output of the 
alternator but it can also coke up the exhaust elbow and glaze the cylinders.  
Diesel engines should be run at 80% as often as possible and for as long as 
possible.

Josh

On Oct 16, 2017 2:19 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
With a small battery bank you will not benefit from the larger alternator.  The 
batteries can't absorb a charge that quickly.

Joel

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]

Virus-free. 
www.avg.com


On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:25 PM, David via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Let me expound a bit on alternators and engine size.   When replaced my dumb 
alternator with a Balmar set-up (alternator, smart Charger, digital Duo etc ) 
on my 33 hp diesel Balmar recommended no more than the 80 amp because of the 
loss of HP which I could ill afford.



If you have HP to spare...go for it.   If not reconsider.





1981 40-2

David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: CnC-List 
> on behalf 
of Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 12:47 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

Paul, Thanks for these more accurate "ratings".  It definitely helps to give an 
answer to the question of "what does good look like?"  I have never saught out 
actual ratings for refrigerator loads and I've never gotten a AHr meter 
installed - besides the plethora of variables which make single point AHr usage 
almost impossible to  determine.  It seemed like nobody else had provided a 
frame of reference besides examples of their own setup and I was kinda trying 
to describe a worst case numbers scenario to provide an upper boundary to the 
project.  Your numbers bring further clarity by providing a lower boundary.

You and other listers are absolutely correct that adding insulation is the best 
way to reduce refrigerator AHr load.

Thanks,
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 9:20 AM Dreuge via CnC-List 
> wrote:

If you have a refrigeration load of 120AH/day, don’t waist money on increasing 
battery and charging capacity.

Spend a little cash on better insulation or rebuild your box with more and 
better insulation.   It is not unreasonable to shoot for a refrigeration load 
under 30AH/day.  Just have a look at Wally’s Stella Blue page titled “Marine 
refrigeration and freezer on 22AH/day”(I recall he has a  Frigoboat unit with 
keel cooler).   Technautics claim that their CoolBlue system consumes “24AH/Day 
for a 7 cubic foot fridge/freezer with R-30” and “operates at ambient 
temperatures up to 120F without a loss in system efficiency.”   Even the 
Isotherm claims their ASU SP3751 can achieve loads under 20AH/day.   Now making 
ice or cooling down warm beer on a really hot day will likely have higher load 
demands, but the message is still the same.  Insulation is cheaper than 
batteries and 

Re: Stus-List First Haul Out/ Winter Layup

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

If using a Travelift or crane with slings, Have a one line profile drawing of 
your boat to hand to the operator so he knows where to place the slings 
relative to your keel and shaft.  Take a good pic from the side for next year's 
haul out. 

Place a piece of tape where the slings should be or tie a line in the toe rail. 

Make sure the yard blocks your boat so the cockpit drains properly. That is, 
are your cockpit scuppers forward?  If so, don't let them block it now up. :)

Take lots of pictures. Have camera ready if something goes awry. Take notes for 
next year. 

Dennis C. 
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Dave S via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Normal stuff plus - 
> 
> Scrub and pump out bilge prior to haul,  check hull for blisters immediately 
> when hauled and gouge now to allow to dry for spring repair.   ( I get 1 or 2 
> per year.)
> Open all lockers lift cushions to permit air movement, leave holding tank 
> fill open to air out over winter (if boat is covered)
> I remove instrument sender to permit air movement as well.
> I leave batteries in, leave shore power cable accessible (hanging below cover 
> coiled on prop shaft) and charge periodically over the winter.
> 
> Dave.  33-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Thomas Delaney  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Listers,
>> 
>> I'm hauling out for the first time on Wednesday. Any tips for someone who is 
>> new to the whole operation? Are there any last minute things I should do 
>> while the boat is in the water? Anything I should do as soon as the boat 
>> comes out that aren't covered on the winterizing checklist? 
>> (I'm using the list at 
>> http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/winterizing/winterizing.htm) 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>> -- 
>> --- 
>> Thomas C. Delaney
>> 917-337-5524
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Joe, the damage I was considering would be caused by exceeding the charge
rate for the bank size.  The conventional wisdom is that typical lead acid
batteries should not be charged at a rate greater than 25% of their
capacity.  A 100 AHr battery would be limited to 25 amps.  Isn't it
possible to exceed the charge rate with a good regulator?  Particularly
applicable when the battery is more deeply discharged.

 All of the 3 and 4 stage regulators I've ever seen will ramp up to max
amps and hold there until ~14.6 volts is reached (80% full - end of bulk
charge) at which time the voltage will be held constant at ~14.6v as the
amps are reduced.  Once the amps lower to ~2amps the regulator shifts to
float mode and lowers the voltage to ~13.3v and holds it indefinitely.

As an example lets say that you are using a 100 amp alternator and
regulator to charge a 100AHr battery bank that has been discharged to 50%
capacity.  Isn't it likely that the charge current will ramp to 100 amps?
Or at least greater than 25 amps?  What other regulator function would
prevent this from happening?  I suppose battery temperature could input to
the alternator so as to reduce charge current.  Though, I'm not sure that
battery temperature responds quickly enough to prevent early over current
damage, only overcurrent damage as a result of longer term charging current
which has been applied long enough to raise temperature to the threshold.

Josh

On Oct 16, 2017 3:01 PM, "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Wrecking batteries with a big alternator is why you need a good regulator.
If you are counting on the alternator itself to just be unable to do any
damage because it can’t, you are taking a big risk or and have a very
suboptimal charging setup.

For an extreme example, given a decent regulator, a 1000 amp alternator
should do no harm and you can very much destroy batteries with a 35 amp
alternator. I once worked on a boat whose genset had a 35 amp alternator
set to 16 volts. The owner was buying several batteries a year and didn’t
know why.



Joe

Coquina



*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
*Sent:* Monday, October 16, 2017 2:50 PM
*To:* C List 
*Cc:* Josh Muckley 

*Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator



Not only will they not absorb the charge quickly enough, exceeding the
charge rate will boil the batteries more than staying within the charging
guidelines.  An alternator that is too big for the bank will seriously risk
damaging the batteries.



Larger alternators under full load will also strain the v-belt.  Additional
tention will need to be applied to prevent the belt from slipping.  The
additional tension puts additional side loads on the crankshaft end
bearing.



Lets also remember that full output is only achieved under full RPM.  Many
people enjoy the idea of idling along or running the engine for a few hours
in neutral.  Not only does this not achieve the full rated output of the
alternator but it can also coke up the exhaust elbow and glaze the
cylinders.  Diesel engines should be run at 80% as often as possible and
for as long as possible.



Josh



On Oct 16, 2017 2:19 PM, "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" 
wrote:

With a small battery bank you will not benefit from the larger alternator.
The batteries can't absorb a charge that quickly.



Joel





Virus-free. www.avg.com




On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:25 PM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

Let me expound a bit on alternators and engine size.   When replaced my
dumb alternator with a Balmar set-up (alternator, smart Charger, digital
Duo etc ) on my 33 hp diesel Balmar recommended no more than the 80 amp
because of the loss of HP which I could ill afford.



If you have HP to spare...go for it.   If not reconsider.





1981 40-2

David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)


--

*From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Josh Muckley
via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Monday, October 16, 2017 12:47 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Josh Muckley
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Engine, now what size alternator



Paul, Thanks for these more accurate "ratings".  It definitely helps to
give an answer to the question of "what does good look like?"  I have never
saught out actual ratings for refrigerator loads and I've never gotten a
AHr meter installed - besides the plethora of variables which make single
point AHr usage almost impossible to  determine.  It seemed like nobody
else had provided a frame of reference besides examples of their own setup
and I was kinda trying to describe a worst case numbers scenario to provide
an 

Re: Stus-List Fixed port replacement sources...

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Dave,

 

Greg and I have both used Kay Gee Plastics.  They are small time, but do great 
work.  Prices are not too bad either.  They are located in Norfolk.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA



 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 19:06
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dave Godwin 
Subject: Stus-List Fixed port replacement sources...

 

Gang,

 

I’m replacing the fixed ports on our 37’. I was wondering if there were 
recommendations for a shop in the Tidewater/Newport News/Hampton/Norfolk area. 

 

I used Annapolis Maritime Plastics the last time I replaced them but it’s a bit 
of drive from my current locations.

 

Best,

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit  

 

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!