Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Wow.  Does that include racing?

-Original Message- 
From: Leslie Paal via CnC-List

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Leslie Paal
Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured with Allstate without any 
questions.  I did not have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium 
was $180 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras, spill, 3rd 
party, etc.)


Leslie
Phoenix C 1983


On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM

My Allstate agent said no way
would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
I had
one claim with BOATUS and I could not be happier with the
service. Basically "get it fixed, have the yard fax us
the bill". We hit an underwater something, not sure
what, and it bent the prop shaft.



Joe Della
Barba
Coquina


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Howard and Skippy 
Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues

Insurance experience
My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate
for the last 25 years and I
have experience
with 3 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut
with my son at the helm, doing about 8 kts with
the big chute up, we hit
an unseen,
underground spire submerged 6' below the surface. 20k
later
Allstate covered all but the 500
deductible and there was no increase in
rate which has held at about 5-600 with an
insured value of 60k + 6k for
"accessories" for the duration of
coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the
boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack
stands when the cover
caught one of the
stands causing hull and rigging damage. some 20+k
later, Allstate handled the claim speedily and
without premium increase.
The boat was
totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate

gave me the boat along with the check. I
used the $ to rebuild the boat
and she is
as good as or better now than new. There has been no real

increase in premium. I can only praise
Allstate in that they are 1/2 the
cost of
Boat US, have been easy to work with and have stuck with me

through  3 major incidents.
Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again

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Re: Stus-List Insurance issues

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

well, my boat is only 32 feet, and been insured with Allstate without any 
questions.  I did not have any claim so far (10+ years) and my last premium was 
$180 (about) with good coverage (inc. full value, extras, spill, 3rd party, 
etc.)

Leslie
Phoenix C 1983


On Tue, 2/6/18, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Insurance issues
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
 Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" 
 Date: Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 7:41 AM
 
 My Allstate agent said no way
 would Allstate touch a 35 foot boat.
 I had
 one claim with BOATUS and I could not be happier with the
 service. Basically "get it fixed, have the yard fax us
 the bill". We hit an underwater something, not sure
 what, and it bent the prop shaft.
 
 
 
 Joe Della
 Barba
 Coquina
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Howard and Skippy via CnC-List
 Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 9:46 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Howard and Skippy 
 Subject: Stus-List Insurance issues
 
 Insurance experience
 My C 35-3 has been insured by Allstate
 for the last 25 years and I 
 have experience
 with 3 major claims. Once, while transiting Plum Gut 
 with my son at the helm, doing about 8 kts with
 the big chute up, we hit 
 an unseen,
 underground spire submerged 6' below the surface. 20k
 later 
 Allstate covered all but the 500
 deductible and there was no increase in 
 rate which has held at about 5-600 with an
 insured value of 60k + 6k for 
 "accessories" for the duration of
 coverage.   About 10-15 years ago, the 
 boat, during a storm, was blown off its jack
 stands when the cover 
 caught one of the
 stands causing hull and rigging damage. some 20+k 
 later, Allstate handled the claim speedily and
 without premium increase. 
 The boat was
 totaled in Super Storm Sandy. After a 45K payout, Allstate
 
 gave me the boat along with the check. I
 used the $ to rebuild the boat 
 and she is
 as good as or better now than new. There has been no real
 
 increase in premium. I can only praise
 Allstate in that they are 1/2 the 
 cost of
 Boat US, have been easy to work with and have stuck with me
 
 through  3 major incidents.
 Howard Paul, skipper Knot Again
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 ___
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting
 this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is
 greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use
 PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 mk1

[Ted Drossos via CnC-List]

When I raced my 29-2 I would change from a 155% to either a 125% or 135% when 
sustained apparent wind was 20 knots or greater. There was a 29-1 in our fleet 
who had to shorten sail sooner than us. I sold my boat and have two racing 
headsails available if anyone is interested . They are 100% and 125% and were 
only used three times. 


Ted Drossos
C 110
Lady in Red
Long Island, NY

*

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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Michael Cotton via CnC-List]

 Very well put!

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018, 7:05:29 PM EST, Matthew L. Wolford via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
 Thanks for clarifying things, Bill – and sorry for apparently causing 
exasperation. Time to beat the dead horse: For those who understand what’s 
going on, it is not that complicated.  For those who do not, it is both 
complicated and confusing.  For example, your interpretation of the first 
bulleted sentence in the advertisement (or whatever it is) is based on your 
insight.  Frankly, if BoatUS meant to say a boat owner must not display State 
registration numbers on a federally documented boat, it should just say so.  
Instead, the ad – entitled “Boat Documentation Requirements” – initially 
suggests that a boat should be “identified” on the exterior of the hull as 
either State registered or federally documented, but not both.  This itself is 
confusing because it mixes apples and oranges (titling and registration).  
Moreover, a boat owner cannot use BoatUS graphics to “identify” a boat as 
either State registered or federally documented on the exterior of the hull.  A 
critical reader will discover several bullets later that a federal document 
number must be placed on the interior of the boat.  A less informed boater 
could easily conclude that a boat must be “identified” by its federal or State 
number somewhere on the exterior – using BoatUS graphics, of course. The ad 
concludes by noting: “Federal Vessel Documentation is a federal issue and is 
not open to enforcement or interpretation by the state.”  No legal advice 
there. From: Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 
12:04 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Bina - gmail Subject: Re: Stus-List 
Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation 
This is true in all 50 states because it is a FEDERAL law. What the sentence 
means is that the boat must not display state registration numbers if it is 
documented. That is what they mean by "identified". This is not to say that 
states cannot require you to register the boat. They just cannot require a 
visible state registration number. They CAN display a sticker indicating that 
state fees and taxes have been paid. That is not a registration number. I live 
in Connecticut. My boat is Federally Documented and also registered in CT. The 
markings on the boat are the name, hailing port and a small sticker from the 
state that shows taxes and fees are current. Federal Documentation is the title 
for the boat, and Connecticut uses my Doc number as the registration number on 
the paperwork. No state is arguing about this, as it works just fine for all 
concerned, and has for a long time. Most, but not all, states require a state 
registration for Federally Documented boats. This is not a problem for anybody 
involved. People seem to tie themselves in knots over this. It is not even 
slightly complicated. BoatUS is not practicing law without a license, or 
drawing their own conclusions. They are just stating the laws as they plainly 
exist on the books.


Bill Bina


On 2/7/2018 11:40 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:

   I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at least 
in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:
   - Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a 
Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH. 
     Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and registration.  
In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be titled under the PA 
Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State titled).  However, they 
must be registered.  This change was made to the State statute in the 1990s and 
became effective on March 1, 1998.  Under the old requirements, federally 
documented boats were exempt from State registration.  Under the new 
requirements, federally documented boats used for recreational purpose must be 
registered.  As far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I doubt a 
court would conclude that State registration requirements are preempted because 
they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in conflict with 
federal law regarding documentation.
   - When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers 
and Letters must be removed. 
     This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is that 
federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be 
identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission requires 
decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat.  Most 
sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.       As we discussed in a 
previous thread about this issue, this is a complicated and unclear area of law 
which, not surprisingly, the U.S. Supreme Court has not addressed.  BoatUS 
would be wise not to give legal advice in promoting the sale of graphics.     

Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Thanks for clarifying things, Bill – and sorry for apparently causing 
exasperation.

Time to beat the dead horse:

For those who understand what’s going on, it is not that complicated.  For 
those who do not, it is both complicated and confusing.  For example, your 
interpretation of the first bulleted sentence in the advertisement (or whatever 
it is) is based on your insight.  Frankly, if BoatUS meant to say a boat owner 
must not display State registration numbers on a federally documented boat, it 
should just say so.  Instead, the ad – entitled “Boat Documentation 
Requirements” – initially suggests that a boat should be “identified” on the 
exterior of the hull as either State registered or federally documented, but 
not both.  This itself is confusing because it mixes apples and oranges 
(titling and registration).  Moreover, a boat owner cannot use BoatUS graphics 
to “identify” a boat as either State registered or federally documented on the 
exterior of the hull.  A critical reader will discover several bullets later 
that a federal document number must be placed on the interior of the boat.  A 
less informed boater could easily conclude that a boat must be “identified” by 
its federal or State number somewhere on the exterior – using BoatUS graphics, 
of course.

The ad concludes by noting: “Federal Vessel Documentation is a federal issue 
and is not open to enforcement or interpretation by the state.”  No legal 
advice there.

From: Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 12:04 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bill Bina - gmail 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat 
Documentation

This is true in all 50 states because it is a FEDERAL law. What the sentence 
means is that the boat must not display state registration numbers if it is 
documented. That is what they mean by "identified". This is not to say that 
states cannot require you to register the boat. They just cannot require a 
visible state registration number. They CAN display a sticker indicating that 
state fees and taxes have been paid. That is not a registration number. I live 
in Connecticut. My boat is Federally Documented and also registered in CT. The 
markings on the boat are the name, hailing port and a small sticker from the 
state that shows taxes and fees are current. Federal Documentation is the title 
for the boat, and Connecticut uses my Doc number as the registration number on 
the paperwork. No state is arguing about this, as it works just fine for all 
concerned, and has for a long time. Most, but not all, states require a state 
registration for Federally Documented boats. This is not a problem for anybody 
involved. People seem to tie themselves in knots over this. It is not even 
slightly complicated. BoatUS is not practicing law without a license, or 
drawing their own conclusions. They are just stating the laws as they plainly 
exist on the books.


Bill Bina




On 2/7/2018 11:40 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:

  I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at least 
in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:
a.. Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a 
Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH. 
  Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and registration.  
In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be titled under the PA 
Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State titled).  However, they 
must be registered.  This change was made to the State statute in the 1990s and 
became effective on March 1, 1998.  Under the old requirements, federally 
documented boats were exempt from State registration.  Under the new 
requirements, federally documented boats used for recreational purpose must be 
registered.  As far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I doubt a 
court would conclude that State registration requirements are preempted because 
they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in conflict with 
federal law regarding documentation.
a.. When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration 
Numbers and Letters must be removed. 
  This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is that 
federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be 
identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission requires 
decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat.  Most 
sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.

  As we discussed in a previous thread about this issue, this is a 
complicated and unclear area of law which, not surprisingly, the U.S. Supreme 
Court has not addressed.  BoatUS would be wise not to give legal advice in 
promoting the sale of graphics.







___

Thanks everyone for supporting 

Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi Jim,

Sounds like a great plan.  I'm looking forward to hearing your comments
about the new sail.

Have fun with the projects!

-Francois
1990 34+  "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Jim Giffing  wrote:

> Thanks for the comments all!!!
>
> At minimum I am sure to have my wife crew with me - she is a willing and
> experienced crew. Sadly both my boys are living in Michigan now so neither
> of them nor their sig others are around anymore.  But I hope to scrounge up
> a few friends when needed.
>
> I worked it out with the sailmaker. He was trying to decide whether to
> build a light Genoa or a flatter medium light that I could carry a little
> longer. I opted for the latter. I don’t need to go thru a panic sail change
> if the wind suddenly pipes up just because of the fear of damaging the sail.
>
> So now the deposit has been mailed and the waiting begins. Getting excited
> to have a new sail.
>
> Still have to get the cutlass bearing dealt with and few other spring
> “projects” completed and back in the water! Yippee! Spring is around the
> corner.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
> S/V Strong Tower
> 1977 C Mk1
> North East Md
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 5:58 PM -0500, "Chuck S" 
> wrote:
>
> Francois,
>>
>> Thanks for a very thorough response.  I learn from your observations,
>> always.   We need to get together for a double handed race n the Chesapeake.
>>
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> younger crew are harder and harder to find.  My all-time best crew of
>> 2012 went to college and graduated and one is a sales rep for Doyle Sails
>> in Florida, another works in NYC in IT, and another is an officer with NOAA
>> stationed in Hawaii.   My own son is doing IT in a startup in Las Vegas.
>>
>>
>> I live and work in NJ and I'm 63 and race solo on a C 34R out of
>> Magothy River without crew, no arguments, no worries, I love the
>> experiences without any negatives.  I haven't won anything but I'm having
>> fun doing the distance races to Baltimore or Annapolis out and back.
>>
>>
>> You should consider sailing solo or even two handed.  Join CHESSS at
>> www.chbaysss.org
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>> Resolute
>> 1990 C 34R
>> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>>
>> On February 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Francois Rivard via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who
>> was the guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.
>>
>> For what it's worth:
>>
>> For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can
>> racing the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the
>> boat away from the cans.
>>
>> That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game
>> changer on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The
>> added straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added
>> time for tacks.
>>
>> Easy way to see when to change / or pick another sail to start with? If
>> you see white caps ->  use the 135.
>>
>>
>> If not racing  / just cruising around we use the 135 unless it's really
>> light like 5-6 knots or less.  We use it because we have it..  If I was not
>> racing I could definitely get by on the 135 only.
>>
>> my 2 cents.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Francois Rivard
>> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
>> Lake Lanier, GA
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Jim Giffing via CnC-List]

Thanks for the comments all!!!
At minimum I am sure to have my wife crew with me - she is a willing and 
experienced crew. Sadly both my boys are living in Michigan now so neither of 
them nor their sig others are around anymore.  But I hope to scrounge up a few 
friends when needed.
I worked it out with the sailmaker. He was trying to decide whether to build a 
light Genoa or a flatter medium light that I could carry a little longer. I 
opted for the latter. I don’t need to go thru a panic sail change if the wind 
suddenly pipes up just because of the fear of damaging the sail.
So now the deposit has been mailed and the waiting begins. Getting excited to 
have a new sail.
Still have to get the cutlass bearing dealt with and few other spring 
“projects” completed and back in the water! Yippee! Spring is around the corner.
ThanksJimS/V Strong Tower1977 C Mk1North East Md



Get Outlook for iOS





On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 5:58 PM -0500, "Chuck S"  wrote:















Francois, 

Thanks for a very thorough response.  I learn from your observations, always.   
We need to get together for a double handed race n the Chesapeake.




Jim, 

younger crew are harder and harder to find.  My all-time best crew of 2012 went 
to college and graduated and one is a sales rep for Doyle Sails in Florida, 
another works in NYC in IT, and another is an officer with NOAA stationed in 
Hawaii.   My own son is doing IT in a startup in Las Vegas.




I live and work in NJ and I'm 63 and race solo on a C 34R out of Magothy 
River without crew, no arguments, no worries, I love the experiences without 
any negatives.  I haven't won anything but I'm having fun doing the distance 
races to Baltimore or Annapolis out and back.




You should consider sailing solo or even two handed.  Join CHESSS at 
www.chbaysss.org




Chuck
Resolute
1990 C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, MdOn February 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Francois Rivard 
via CnC-List  wrote:

I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who was the 
guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.  
For what it's worth: 
For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can racing 
the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the boat away 
from the cans. 
That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game changer 
on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The added 
straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added time for 
tacks.  
Easy way to see when to change / or pick another sail to start with? If you see 
white caps ->  use the 135.  

If not racing  / just cruising around we use the 135 unless it's really light 
like 5-6 knots or less.  We use it because we have it..  If I was not racing I 
could definitely get by on the 135 only.  
my 2 cents. 
Best regards, 
Francois Rivard1990 34+ "Take Five"Lake Lanier, GA


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


 




___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Francois,

Thanks for a very thorough response.  I learn from your observations, always.   
We need to get together for a double handed race n the Chesapeake.


Jim,

younger crew are harder and harder to find.  My all-time best crew of 2012 went 
to college and graduated and one is a sales rep for Doyle Sails in Florida, 
another works in NYC in IT, and another is an officer with NOAA stationed in 
Hawaii.   My own son is doing IT in a startup in Las Vegas.


I live and work in NJ and I'm 63 and race solo on a C 34R out of Magothy 
River without crew, no arguments, no worries, I love the experiences without 
any negatives.  I haven't won anything but I'm having fun doing the distance 
races to Baltimore or Annapolis out and back.


You should consider sailing solo or even two handed.  Join CHESSS at 
www.chbaysss.org


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

> On February 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who 
> was the guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.  
> 
> For what it's worth: 
> 
> For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can 
> racing the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the 
> boat away from the cans. 
> 
> That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game 
> changer on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The 
> added straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added 
> time for tacks.  
> 
> Easy way to see when to change / or pick another sail to start with? If 
> you see white caps ->  use the 135.  
> 
> 
> If not racing  / just cruising around we use the 135 unless it's really 
> light like 5-6 knots or less.  We use it because we have it..  If I was not 
> racing I could definitely get by on the 135 only.  
> 
> my 2 cents. 
> 
> Best regards, 
> 
> Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who was
the guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.

For what it's worth:

For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can
racing the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the
boat away from the cans.

That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game
changer on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The
added straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added
time for tacks.

Easy way to see when to change / or pick another sail to start with? If you
see white caps ->  use the 135.


If not racing  / just cruising around we use the 135 unless it's really
light like 5-6 knots or less.  We use it because we have it..  If I was not
racing I could definitely get by on the 135 only.

my 2 cents.

Best regards,

Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Two years ago I used a fancy Allwood product (I’ll get the name) based on a 
write-in comment that appeared in Practical Sailor.  I followed the 
instructions, including application of a primer coat, and everything looked 
great.  This past spring, after a particularly cold winter, I noticed that 
there was an adhesion issue.  You can see “bubbling” underneath the varnish (or 
whatever it is).  I haven’t decided what to do about it.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled them 
every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap. 

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  
wrote:

  My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
recommendations.

  Brien Sadler
  S/V TAZ
  C 35-3 

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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My outside teak is natural weathered right now. Teak oil was a complete waste 
of time on exterior wood and the 2-part “cleaner” does WAY more damage than 
just leaving it alone.



Joe Della Barba
DCSI
410-966-7255



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 2:19 PM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled them 
every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
recommendations.

Brien Sadler
S/V TAZ
C 35-3

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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled
them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats
Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in
the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
> refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
> wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
> for recommendations.
>
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I meant to add that you’re a good one – definitely a compliment.

From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 12:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat 
Documentation

I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or not…   :^) 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sea%20lawyer

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


  On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  You really are a sea lawyer. 




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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I had a pretty good test of that in the past year.  Last offseason I replaced 
Grenadine’s exterior cabintop teak handrails with new ones fabricated by my 
buddy Jerrod Milton.  I finished the new ones (and the teak piece under the 
traveler) with five coats of Cetol Marine Natural Teak followed by three coats 
Cetol Marine Clear.

Then Jerrod made a set of custom teak drink holders for the boat, installed at 
both ends of the cockpit and inboard of the dorade boxes.  He insisted on 
finishing those with teak oil.

After basically one year in the elements, the handrails and traveler piece look 
brand new, just like they did when I got done refinishing them.  But the drink 
holders are weathered as hell.  I’m refinishing them now with Cetol.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Brien Sadler via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
> it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
> anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
> recommendations.
> 
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 


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Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Jim Giffing via CnC-List]

David:

Sailing on the Chesapeake... lots of 10Kt and below days during the season.
Also getting this hopefully for potential club racing.

For casual sailing I will use an older 130 or a plain jib.

And with a foil and dual halyards, change over is really not so bad... but
then I am getting older :) Just need younger crew :)

Thanks,
Jim

S/V Strong Tower
1977 C 29 Mk1
North East MD
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Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Brien Sadler via CnC-List]

My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
for recommendations.

Brien Sadler
S/V TAZ
C 35-3
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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

It's a compliment, wear it proudly!

 

 


Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River:

Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Sent: Wed, Feb 7, 2018 12:04 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat 
Documentation


I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or not…   :^)


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sea%20lawyer


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(



On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:


You really are a sea lawyer. 




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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Fairly good analysis, Matthew

As a 30 year regulatory professional, terminology is critical.

Documented and registered are two entirely different concepts.

USCG "documentation" is a very formal thing.  It is analogous to placing
the mortgage for your house with a clerk of court.  All liens, actions,
ownership changes, etc. are documented through the USCG.  If you haven't
already, order an abstract of title from the USCG Documentation Center.
The abstract will show every legal action taken against the vessel since it
was documented.

Touche's abstract shows five owners, a lien for $62,400, and a couple other
things.  Interesting history.

On the other hand, state "registration" is often a money grab by most
states.  Usually it's required for any powered vessel over 16 feet (give or
take).  As Matthew said, many states require a decal to show that the
periodic registration fees have been paid.  Displaying a fee decal does not
conflict with the federal numbering regulations.  In Louisiana, there is no
exemption for documented vessels to forego the display of the state
registration numbers.  However, my impression is that enforcement of the
requirement is "soft".  I have a laminated placard that I can place in a
window that shows the Louisiana registration number.  I keep the current
fee decal in the boat's log.  No issue so far.

As a further note, when I registered Touche' with Louisiana, Touche's
pre-1972 HIN did not conform to the 12 digit format so they issued a new
vessel hull identification number.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 9:41 AM, "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at
least in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:

   - Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or
   a Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.

Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and
registration.  In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be
titled under the PA Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State
titled).  However, they must be registered.  This change was made to the
State statute in the 1990s and became effective on March 1, 1998.  Under
the old requirements, federally documented boats were exempt from State
registration.  Under the new requirements, federally documented boats used
for recreational purpose must be registered.  As far as I know, no one has
challenged this scheme, and I doubt a court would conclude that State
registration requirements are preempted because they are help the State
keep track of boats and are not in conflict with federal law regarding
documentation.

   - When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration
   Numbers and Letters must be removed.

This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is that
federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be
identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission
requires decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat.
Most sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.

As we discussed in a previous thread about this issue, this is a
complicated and unclear area of law which, not surprisingly, the U.S.
Supreme Court has not addressed.  BoatUS would be wise not to give legal
advice in promoting the sale of graphics.

*From:* Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:22 AM
*To:* C List 
*Cc:* Bruce Whitmore 
*Subject:* Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat
Documentation

Hello All,

Given the discussion that came up the other day regarding boat
documentation, you may want to see the link below posted by Boat U.S.

Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics


Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics
Find all boat documentation requirements whether your boat is state or
federally documented.


While not authoritative in & of itself, it might cause local law
enforcement to pause and rethink if they ever pull you over because you
don't have state numbers displayed on your boat.

At least in Florida, this does not eliminate the need to display the state
registration sticker.

Hoping you find this helpful,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

--
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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

This is true in all 50 states because it is a FEDERAL law. What the 
sentence means is that the boat must not display state registration 
numbers if it is documented. That is what they mean by "identified". 
This is not to say that states cannot require you to register the boat. 
They just cannot require a visible state registration number. They CAN 
display a sticker indicating that state fees and taxes have been paid. 
That is not a registration number. I live in Connecticut. My boat is 
Federally Documented and also registered in CT. The markings on the boat 
are the name, hailing port and a small sticker from the state that shows 
taxes and fees are current. Federal Documentation is the title for the 
boat, and Connecticut uses my Doc number as the registration number on 
the paperwork. No state is arguing about this, as it works just fine for 
all concerned, and has for a long time. Most, but not all, states 
require a state registration for Federally Documented boats. This is not 
a problem for anybody involved. People seem to tie themselves in knots 
over this. It is not even slightly complicated. BoatUS is not practicing 
law without a license, or drawing their own conclusions. They are just 
stating the laws as they plainly exist on the books.


Bill Bina


On 2/7/2018 11:40 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:
I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at 
least in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:


  * Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel
or a Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.

Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and 
registration.  In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to 
be titled under the PA Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be 
State titled).  However, they must be registered.  This change was 
made to the State statute in the 1990s and became effective on March 
1, 1998.  Under the old requirements, federally documented boats were 
exempt from State registration.  Under the new requirements, federally 
documented boats used for recreational purpose must be registered.  As 
far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I doubt a court 
would conclude that State registration requirements are preempted 
because they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in 
conflict with federal law regarding documentation.


  * When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration
Numbers and Letters must be removed.

    This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is 
that federal law has requirements about how a federally documented 
boat must be identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and 
Boat Commission requires decals (not State registration numbers) to be 
placed on the boat.  Most sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.
    As we discussed in a previous thread about this issue, this is a 
complicated and unclear area of law which, not surprisingly, the U.S. 
Supreme Court has not addressed.  BoatUS would be wise not to give 
legal advice in promoting the sale of graphics.




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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or not…   :^)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sea%20lawyer 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> You really are a sea lawyer. 

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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Good catch, Fred.  But my boat is identified as both State registered and 
Federally documented.  I have State registered decals port and starboard and no 
numbers on the bow (State requirement), and the name of the boat and hailing 
port in 4 inch letters on the transom (federal requirement).  If I were merely 
State titled and registered, the numbers would be on the bow.

It’s still a good catch.  You really are a sea lawyer.  

From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 11:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat 
Documentation

Matthew — as the BoatUS article is talking about graphics, I read the line in 
question below (“vessel may only be identified…”) to mean that the vessel 
should adhere to either state labeling standards if NOT documented, or federal 
labeling standards if it IS documented. 

So you should NOT have bow numbers on a documented vessel.

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


  On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at least 
in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:
a.. Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a 
Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.
  Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and registration.  
In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be titled under the PA 
Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State titled).  However, they 
must be registered.  This change was made to the State statute in the 1990s and 
became effective on March 1, 1998.  Under the old requirements, federally 
documented boats were exempt from State registration.  Under the new 
requirements, federally documented boats used for recreational purpose must be 
registered.  As far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I doubt a 
court would conclude that State registration requirements are preempted because 
they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in conflict with 
federal law regarding documentation.
a.. When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration 
Numbers and Letters must be removed.
  This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is that 
federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be 
identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission requires 
decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat.  Most 
sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.

  As we discussed in a previous thread about this issue, this is a 
complicated and unclear area of law which, not surprisingly, the U.S. Supreme 
Court has not addressed.  BoatUS would be wise not to give legal advice in 
promoting the sale of graphics.




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Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[David via CnC-List]

Do you really need a 155%?   Think of prevailing wind speeds, use, crew and PIA 
factor (changing headsails is not always fun)...


David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)



From: CnC-List  on behalf of Jim Giffing via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 11:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jim Giffing
Subject: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

Hi 29’ers

I am in the process of buying new 155 genny as the one the boat (mark 1) when I 
bought it was trash and truly not useable. So really I have no experience with 
it.

The sailmaker is asking me when do I change over... at what windspeed? Given 
the tenderness of the boat I was thinking 10 kts. true.

What’s your experience?
Thanks
Jim
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Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Jim Giffing via CnC-List]

Hi 29’ers

I am in the process of buying new 155 genny as the one the boat (mark 1)
when I bought it was trash and truly not useable. So really I have no
experience with it.

The sailmaker is asking me when do I change over... at what windspeed?
Given the tenderness of the boat I was thinking 10 kts. true.

What’s your experience?
Thanks
Jim
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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Matthew — as the BoatUS article is talking about graphics, I read the line in 
question below (“vessel may only be identified…”) to mean that the vessel 
should adhere to either state labeling standards if NOT documented, or federal 
labeling standards if it IS documented.

So you should NOT have bow numbers on a documented vessel.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at least 
> in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:
> Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a 
> Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.
> Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and registration.  
> In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be titled under the PA 
> Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State titled).  However, they 
> must be registered.  This change was made to the State statute in the 1990s 
> and became effective on March 1, 1998.  Under the old requirements, federally 
> documented boats were exempt from State registration.  Under the new 
> requirements, federally documented boats used for recreational purpose must 
> be registered.  As far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I 
> doubt a court would conclude that State registration requirements are 
> preempted because they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in 
> conflict with federal law regarding documentation.
> When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers 
> and Letters must be removed.
> This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is that 
> federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be 
> identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission 
> requires decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat.  
> Most sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.
>  
> As we discussed in a previous thread about this issue, this is a 
> complicated and unclear area of law which, not surprisingly, the U.S. Supreme 
> Court has not addressed.  BoatUS would be wise not to give legal advice in 
> promoting the sale of graphics.

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Re: Stus-List insurance

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

OK so after this very enlightening thread, I decided to do a bit of shopping 
around.

I got a quote from the Gowrie Group (underwritten by New Hampshire Insurance 
Company) with a premium of $403.  But it had a sail & spar exclusion, which can 
only be removed by getting a professional inspection of the rig.  So I’d have 
to spend money to save money.

Then I called Ameriprise, who provide my home, auto, and umbrella policies.  
They also offer marine insurance underwritten be Progressive.  They quoted me 
$361, which is $218 or 38% less than what BoatUS just charged me.  I’m pretty 
tempted to make the switch.

Does anyone have any experience with Progressive as a marine insurer, or any 
experience with cancelling a BoatUS policy and getting a prorated refund of the 
current year’s premium?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Feb 3, 2018, at 2:30 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Same thing happened to me.  My boat is insured through BoatUS, for inland US 
> lakes & rivers (which excludes the Great Lakes), and for racing.  For 2016 I 
> paid $511.  For 2017 I paid $521.  For 2018 it jumped 10% to $574.
> 
> In 2016, the underwriter for BoatUS insurance was National Liability & Fire 
> Insurance Company.  For 2017 it switched to GEICO.
> 
> When I first obtained the insurance in 2016, BoatUS also had a diminishing 
> deductible policy under which my deductible diminishes by 25% of the original 
> deductible, per year, to zero for the fifth year, as long as I do not claim 
> any losses in the first four years.  It looks like the diminishing deductible 
> policy is still in effect with GEICO, because my deductible has gone from 
> $600 in 2016 to $375 in 2017 to $250 in 2018.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2018, at 1:50 PM, ahycrace ahycrace via CnC-List 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all
>> 
>>Well I just got my insurance bill from boat US and it went up 
>> 238$  a pretty big increase.  I called to ask why and they said it was 
>> nothing on my end rates just went up.  I am wondering if everybody else got 
>> raised as well?  I tried to increase my deductible  which is zero, to say 4% 
>> or so to lower my rates. They said they can't do that because they have a 
>> automatic lowering of the deductible over time and once it reaches zero it 
>> must stay there. Sounds like they just want to keep the bill up! 1100$ for 
>> 40k, might have to start shopping, any feedback?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Gary K  
>> "Liberty"  1976  38'  MKll
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at least in 
PA they are not (or may not) be correct:
  a.. Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a 
Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.
Not true in PA.  There is a difference between titling and registration.  
In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be titled under the PA 
Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State titled).  However, they 
must be registered.  This change was made to the State statute in the 1990s and 
became effective on March 1, 1998.  Under the old requirements, federally 
documented boats were exempt from State registration.  Under the new 
requirements, federally documented boats used for recreational purpose must be 
registered.  As far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I doubt a 
court would conclude that State registration requirements are preempted because 
they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in conflict with 
federal law regarding documentation.
  a.. When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration 
Numbers and Letters must be removed.
This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct.  The reason is that 
federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be 
identified.  To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission requires 
decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat.  Most 
sailboat owners place the decal on the mast.

As we discussed in a previous thread about this issue, this is a 
complicated and unclear area of law which, not surprisingly, the U.S. Supreme 
Court has not addressed.  BoatUS would be wise not to give legal advice in 
promoting the sale of graphics.

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 9:22 AM
To: C List 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
Subject: Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat 
Documentation

Hello All,

Given the discussion that came up the other day regarding boat documentation, 
you may want to see the link below posted by Boat U.S.

Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics



 
   
 Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics
  Find all boat documentation requirements whether your boat is 
state or federally documented.  
   
 


While not authoritative in & of itself, it might cause local law enforcement to 
pause and rethink if they ever pull you over because you don't have state 
numbers displayed on your boat.  



At least in Florida, this does not eliminate the need to display the state 
registration sticker.



Hoping you find this helpful,

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net




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Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

When I swapped out a seacock in the water I swam under the boat and shoved a 
wooden plug in. Might be cold this time of year!
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 10:11 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

Its always good to have a wooden plug available in case the seacock does not 
close all the way.  Learned that the hard way!

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List 
> wrote:
I should also mention that my discharge hose has a vented loop that appears to 
be above the waterline... also, there is a valve to discharge to my holding 
tank, but it's currently set to discharge out (I have 2 heads) - I'm more 
concerned with how the toilet reacts to having the sea water disconnected...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
>
> Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the seacock 
> that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you have to 
> close both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case the 
> discharge sea cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is hauled 
> in spring)
> If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just close 
> the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will the loss 
> of sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the head to open 
> and flood my boat with sea water?
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Dan Cormier
> Breakaweigh
> C
> Halifax NS
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Emergency tiller for the CnC 35 mk2

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Pro Tip:
Get it made longer than the stock one C gave out and put a hinge in it. I 
found my tiller was about a foot short and half a foot low of where it would be 
most comfortable to use. I haven't used it in ages, but before the autopilot 
was installed I would sail with the tiller in the rain so I could sit under the 
dodger. Could be worse, many emergency tillers are really bad - truly for 
emergencies only.
Joe
Coquina
C 35 MK I


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Neil 
Gallagher via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 8:54 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil Gallagher 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Emergency tiller for the CnC 35 mk2

Jeremy,

You've got it right about the emergency tiller, it has a square end fitting, 
split on one side with a bolt to clamp it on the stock, and an aluminum tiller. 
 A shop should be able to fab one for you.  I would suspect the 35-2 has the 
same size rudder stock as my 35-1 but to be sure maybe someone with a 35-2 
could confirm the size.

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the list!

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly 35-1
Glen Cove, NY
On 2/6/2018 6:55 PM, Jeremy Johnston via CnC-List wrote:
Good evening everyone,
I'm new to email distribution lists so I hope I'm doing this right. I just 
bought a CnC 35 mk2! She's a '74 and needs work but her bones look good to me. 
The one thing missing is the emergency tiller.
Looking at the square-ish attachment on the cockpit sole it seems like it would 
be easy for a machine shop to fab a piece to fit other that which I would then 
attach to a wooden or metal tiller arm.
Does anyone know if these are already available out there? If not, any tips for 
making one? The boat is an 11hr drive from me and I didn't think to measure 
that square piece it fits on. Do any schematics around refer to it's size so I 
can work with a machine shop on this?
Thanks so much, looking forward to joining the family !
Jeremy
Get Outlook for Android





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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Daniel Cormier via CnC-List]

Thanks- I have one just in case

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 11:10 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Its always good to have a wooden plug available in case the seacock does not 
> close all the way.  Learned that the hard way!
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> I should also mention that my discharge hose has a vented loop that appears 
>> to be above the waterline... also, there is a valve to discharge to my 
>> holding tank, but it's currently set to discharge out (I have 2 heads) - I'm 
>> more concerned with how the toilet reacts to having the sea water 
>> disconnected...
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the 
>> > seacock that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you 
>> > have to close both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case 
>> > the discharge sea cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is 
>> > hauled in spring)
>> > If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just 
>> > close the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will 
>> > the loss of sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the 
>> > head to open and flood my boat with sea water?
>> >
>> > Thanks guys,
>> >
>> > Dan Cormier
>> > Breakaweigh
>> > C
>> > Halifax NS
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > ___
>> >
>> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each 
>> > and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - 
>> > use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> >
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Its always good to have a wooden plug available in case the seacock does
not close all the way.  Learned that the hard way!

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I should also mention that my discharge hose has a vented loop that
> appears to be above the waterline... also, there is a valve to discharge to
> my holding tank, but it's currently set to discharge out (I have 2 heads) -
> I'm more concerned with how the toilet reacts to having the sea water
> disconnected...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the
> seacock that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you
> have to close both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case
> the discharge sea cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is
> hauled in spring)
> > If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just
> close the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will
> the loss of sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the
> head to open and flood my boat with sea water?
> >
> > Thanks guys,
> >
> > Dan Cormier
> > Breakaweigh
> > C
> > Halifax NS
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
> >
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> >
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Daniel Cormier via CnC-List]

Ok, that's what I was thinking... I do have a loop.

Thanks :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan,
> 
> There should be a loop in the discharge hose that goes above the water line.  
> If you have the loop there is nothing to worry about.
> 
> Joel
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the seacock 
>> that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you have to 
>> close both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case the 
>> discharge sea cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is hauled 
>> in spring)
>> If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just close 
>> the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will the loss 
>> of sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the head to open 
>> and flood my boat with sea water?
>> 
>> Thanks guys,
>> 
>> Dan Cormier
>> Breakaweigh
>> C
>> Halifax NS
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Daniel Cormier via CnC-List]

I should also mention that my discharge hose has a vented loop that appears to 
be above the waterline... also, there is a valve to discharge to my holding 
tank, but it's currently set to discharge out (I have 2 heads) - I'm more 
concerned with how the toilet reacts to having the sea water disconnected...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:45 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the seacock 
> that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you have to 
> close both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case the 
> discharge sea cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is hauled 
> in spring)
> If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just close 
> the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will the loss 
> of sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the head to open 
> and flood my boat with sea water?
> 
> Thanks guys,
> 
> Dan Cormier
> Breakaweigh
> C
> Halifax NS
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Re: Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dan,

There should be a loop in the discharge hose that goes above the water
line.  If you have the loop there is nothing to worry about.

Joel

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Daniel Cormier via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the
> seacock that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you
> have to close both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case
> the discharge sea cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is
> hauled in spring)
> If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just
> close the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will
> the loss of sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the
> head to open and flood my boat with sea water?
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Dan Cormier
> Breakaweigh
> C
> Halifax NS
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List in the water Head Maintenance question

[Daniel Cormier via CnC-List]

Hey everyone, so want to replace some worn plumbing coming from the seacock 
that leads to my marine head. Normally to do head maintenance you have to close 
both the r/w intake and discharge sea cocks but in my case the discharge sea 
cock is seized open... (will deal with it when boat is hauled in spring)
If the work I'm doing is on the hoses leading to the toilet can I just close 
the r/w intake seacock, drain the hoses and do maintenance, or will the loss of 
sea water pressure into the head cause the valves inside the head to open and 
flood my boat with sea water?

Thanks guys,

Dan Cormier
Breakaweigh
C
Halifax NS

Sent from my iPhone
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Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello All,
Given the discussion that came up the other day regarding boat documentation, 
you may want to see the link below posted by Boat U.S.
Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics
 Find all boat documentation requirements whether your boat is state or 
federally documented.  |   |

  |

  |

 
While not authoritative in & of itself, it might cause local law enforcement to 
pause and rethink if they ever pull you over because you don't have state 
numbers displayed on your boat.  

At least in Florida, this does not eliminate the need to display the state 
registration sticker.

Hoping you find this helpful, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Emergency tiller for the CnC 35 mk2

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

You could also try South Shore Yachts: http://southshoreyachts.com/

From: Jeremy Johnston via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 6:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jeremy Johnston 
Subject: Stus-List Emergency tiller for the CnC 35 mk2

Good evening everyone,


I'm new to email distribution lists so I hope I'm doing this right. I just 
bought a CnC 35 mk2! She's a '74 and needs work but her bones look good to me. 
The one thing missing is the emergency tiller.


Looking at the square-ish attachment on the cockpit sole it seems like it would 
be easy for a machine shop to fab a piece to fit other that which I would then 
attach to a wooden or metal tiller arm.


Does anyone know if these are already available out there? If not, any tips for 
making one? The boat is an 11hr drive from me and I didn't think to measure 
that square piece it fits on. Do any schematics around refer to it's size so I 
can work with a machine shop on this?


Thanks so much, looking forward to joining the family !


Jeremy


Get Outlook for Android




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Re: Stus-List Emergency tiller for the CnC 35 mk2

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Jeremy,

You've got it right about the emergency tiller, it has a square end 
fitting, split on one side with a bolt to clamp it on the stock, and an 
aluminum tiller.  A shop should be able to fab one for you.  I would 
suspect the 35-2 has the same size rudder stock as my 35-1 but to be 
sure maybe someone with a 35-2 could confirm the size.


Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the list!

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly 35-1
Glen Cove, NY

On 2/6/2018 6:55 PM, Jeremy Johnston via CnC-List wrote:

Good evening everyone,

I'm new to email distribution lists so I hope I'm doing this right. I 
just bought a CnC 35 mk2! She's a '74 and needs work but her bones 
look good to me. The one thing missing is the emergency tiller.


Looking at the square-ish attachment on the cockpit sole it seems like 
it would be easy for a machine shop to fab a piece to fit other that 
which I would then attach to a wooden or metal tiller arm.


Does anyone know if these are already available out there? If not, any 
tips for making one? The boat is an 11hr drive from me and I didn't 
think to measure that square piece it fits on. Do any schematics 
around refer to it's size so I can work with a machine shop on this?


Thanks so much, looking forward to joining the family !

Jeremy

Get Outlook for Android 



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