Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
Kyle Banerjee wrote: Is there even a C webapp framework available? C is for wussy. Real hombres only need assembly. ...and assembly is for people who can't face a row of toggle switches, which are in turn a crutch for people who can't handle a single toggle switch and an input button, which in turn is ... As I recall the programming language choice flame war started in the late 1960s (Fortran, ALGOL and friends), that's like, thirty years ago. If you really want to keep it going, please take it somewhere else [I understand that google groups currently carries the alt.flame torch]. cheers stuart -- Stuart Yeates http://www.nzetc.org/ New Zealand Electronic Text Centre http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/ Institutional Repository
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
After poking around, it seems that there is: Wt (http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt). After looking through the source of the Hello World example[1], I'm not sure why anyone would go through the trouble, but then again, I feel that way about a lot of lower-level compiled languages. -Sean [1] http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt#/src/hello From: Code for Libraries [code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Hankinson [andrew.hankin...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:49 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update Is there even a C webapp framework available? -A On 2010-05-10, at 16:59, stuart yeates wrote: > Simon Spero wrote: > >> Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing >> unoptimized >> code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which >> require far >> more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly >> written >> code. > > No, the real problem is with trolls sending flamebait. > > cheers > stuart > -- > Stuart Yeates > http://www.nzetc.org/ New Zealand Electronic Text Centre > http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/ Institutional Repository
[CODE4LIB] Code4Lib North: lots of fun
About 40 of us were in Kingston, ON last Friday for Code4Lib North. It was a great day! I had a really good time and I hope everyone else did too. Thursday there were about twenty people hanging out in the afternoon, and most went off for dinner and some ended up at the Sleepless Goat for dessert. I don't think much hacking went on, but the hanging out was good. Friday we started at 9. There were 10 twenty-minute talks, and before lunch we did an Ask Anyone session (like Dan Chudnov did at Code4Lib in Asheville). Queen's University generously provided lunch. When we came back we had nine or ten lightning talks, the last three talks, and then broke up and some BOF sessions happened. The library shut at 4:30 and a group headed out for dinner while others went back home. I knew some of the people there but there were lots of new faces. The talks were all very interesting. I went first and was, I'm afraid, insufficiently awake. Walter Lewis spoke for himself and Art Rhyno about linked data and old Kingston newspapers in Our Ontario. MJ Suhonos's location-aware mytpl.ca had people oohing and ahhing when it showed that the nearest copy in Toronto of a certain book was at a branch in the very east end of the city (Kingston being 250 km east of Toronto). Alan Harnum talked about Toronto Public Library's use of Endeca, and attributed some of its features for a level 20 wizard. Glen Newton's visualization of domains of knowledge in scientific journals was eye-opening. John Miedema gave a summation of OpenBook, his WordPress plugin that he's weaning from development, and Eric Palmitesta gave a great tutorial on XQuery and Exist. Nasser Saleh talked about Coagmento (www.coagmento.org), a collaborative browsing/research tool. I don't have the details of the nine or ten lightning talks, though people here will be glad to know Ed Corrado plumped for the Code4Lib Journal and encouraged us all to write for it. Anyone who spoke Friday---can you please edit the wiki to add a link to slides or a web site? Lightning talkers too, or just give a name to your talk, so everyone knows who spoke about what. Thanks again to Queen's University and Wendy Huot for organizing everything there. I think it was a really fun and informative day, and I hope everyone else felt the same. One last note: we decided to delete the code4lib-north mailing list and have any future discussions here on the main list. If we need to, we can make a separate list again, but there's no demonstrated need. Cheers, Bill -- William Denton, Toronto : miskatonic.org www.frbr.org openfrbr.org
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
> > > Oh wow, want a shovel to help dig you out of the gross generalisations > hole? > > Nah -- I'm totally secure in my idiocy. If I really step in it, I'll get loads of hate mail. If I'm really unlucky and it takes on a life of it's own, I may even be forced to issue a groveling public apology. Been there done that ;) kyle Note to self: Never make light of important technical discussions. Also change wallpaper to black
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
On 11 May 2010 14:19, Kyle Banerjee wrote: > That had occurred to me. However, they tend not to participate in p*ssing > contests (i.e. they're less inclined to do dumb things than guys) so they > weren't listed. Oh wow, want a shovel to help dig you out of the gross generalisations hole? Chris > > But this is a big tent where all are welcome :) > > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Lynne Lysiak wrote: > >> ahem, y mujeres sir!! >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Kyle Banerjee >> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:18 pm >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU >> >> > > Is there even a C webapp framework available? >> > >> > >> > C is for wussy. Real hombres only need assembly. >> > >> > > > > -- > -- > Kyle Banerjee > Digital Services Program Manager > Orbis Cascade Alliance > baner...@uoregon.edu / 503.999.9787 >
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
That had occurred to me. However, they tend not to participate in p*ssing contests (i.e. they're less inclined to do dumb things than guys) so they weren't listed. But this is a big tent where all are welcome :) On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Lynne Lysiak wrote: > ahem, y mujeres sir!! > > - Original Message - > From: Kyle Banerjee > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:18 pm > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > > > > Is there even a C webapp framework available? > > > > > > C is for wussy. Real hombres only need assembly. > > > -- -- Kyle Banerjee Digital Services Program Manager Orbis Cascade Alliance baner...@uoregon.edu / 503.999.9787
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
ahem, y mujeres sir!! - Original Message - From: Kyle Banerjee Date: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:18 pm Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > > Is there even a C webapp framework available? > > > C is for wussy. Real hombres only need assembly. >
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
> Is there even a C webapp framework available? C is for wussy. Real hombres only need assembly.
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
Michael J. Giarlo wrote: > ... people took Simon's comment seriously? Language is a funny thing ; some times the things that are being said is taken seriously. And the script-haters are spread far and wide, so there was no reason not to take him seriously. Should the default be not to take anyone seriously? Srsly? Alex -- Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps --- http://shelter.nu/blog/ -- -- http://www.google.com/profiles/alexander.johannesen ---
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
... people took Simon's comment seriously? C'mon, failsters. Stop making it so easy. -Mike On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 18:49, Andrew Hankinson wrote: > Writing code in "energy efficient" languages is the funniest thing I've > heard in a while. It ranks up there with setting my desktop wallpaper to > black because "it uses less energy." > > More servers are required because more people are writing webapps because > Ruby and PHP make it easier for more people to do it. Is there even a C > webapp framework available? > > -A > > On 2010-05-10, at 16:59, stuart yeates wrote: > >> Simon Spero wrote: >> >>> Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing >>> unoptimized >>> code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far >>> more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly >>> written >>> code. >> >> No, the real problem is with trolls sending flamebait. >> >> cheers >> stuart >> -- >> Stuart Yeates >> http://www.nzetc.org/ New Zealand Electronic Text Centre >> http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/ Institutional Repository >
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
Writing code in "energy efficient" languages is the funniest thing I've heard in a while. It ranks up there with setting my desktop wallpaper to black because "it uses less energy." More servers are required because more people are writing webapps because Ruby and PHP make it easier for more people to do it. Is there even a C webapp framework available? -A On 2010-05-10, at 16:59, stuart yeates wrote: Simon Spero wrote: Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing unoptimized code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly written code. No, the real problem is with trolls sending flamebait. cheers stuart -- Stuart Yeates http://www.nzetc.org/ New Zealand Electronic Text Centre http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/ Institutional Repository
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 06:59, stuart yeates wrote: > No, the real problem is with trolls sending flamebait. Friggin' AMEEN! Alex -- Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps --- http://shelter.nu/blog/ -- -- http://www.google.com/profiles/alexander.johannesen ---
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
Simon Spero wrote: Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing unoptimized code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly written code. No, the real problem is with trolls sending flamebait. cheers stuart -- Stuart Yeates http://www.nzetc.org/ New Zealand Electronic Text Centre http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/ Institutional Repository
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: > I _believe_ that the OCLC FirstSearch shibboleth server is still down, for > anyone who tries to send their users to FirstSearch via Shibboleth > Are you sure you're saying it right? Simon
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
The unix hackers at the Technion did that to the Vaxen 11/7XXes; didn't trust the walk-in UPS, because the mainframe and Vax 9000 would drain it to the dregs. Couldn't do the same thing for the Sun 4/XXX because no source license. Up hill, both ways, in the sand. Simon On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Casey Bisson wrote: > Or be like Google, give up on UPSs, and just attached a battery to the DC > side of each server's power supply. > > > http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/04/the-beast-unveiled-inside-a-google-server.ars > > > On May 10, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Simon Spero wrote: > > > At least it wasn't a "totally transparent" UPS test scheduled for the > > Thursday of Thanksgiving weekend. My personal philosophy is that every > rack > > should have its own UPS separate from the data center one, with enough > > capacity to keep going through blips,and handle a clean shutdown if > > necessary. That way, when the ops team messes up, far fewer sysadmins > get > > their weekend ruined. > > > > Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing > unoptimized > > code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far > > more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly > written > > code. If carbon emissions should turn out to be a strong forcer of > global > > warming, then we can clearly say that every time you write PHP, Phil > Jones > > kills a polar bear. Please, think of the polar bears. > > > > Simon >
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
I _believe_ that the OCLC FirstSearch shibboleth server is still down, for anyone who tries to send their users to FirstSearch via Shibboleth. Simon Spero wrote: At least it wasn't a "totally transparent" UPS test scheduled for the Thursday of Thanksgiving weekend. My personal philosophy is that every rack should have its own UPS separate from the data center one, with enough capacity to keep going through blips,and handle a clean shutdown if necessary. That way, when the ops team messes up, far fewer sysadmins get their weekend ruined. Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing unoptimized code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly written code. If carbon emissions should turn out to be a strong forcer of global warming, then we can clearly say that every time you write PHP, Phil Jones kills a polar bear. Please, think of the polar bears. Simon
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
Or be like Google, give up on UPSs, and just attached a battery to the DC side of each server's power supply. http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/04/the-beast-unveiled-inside-a-google-server.ars On May 10, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Simon Spero wrote: > At least it wasn't a "totally transparent" UPS test scheduled for the > Thursday of Thanksgiving weekend. My personal philosophy is that every rack > should have its own UPS separate from the data center one, with enough > capacity to keep going through blips,and handle a clean shutdown if > necessary. That way, when the ops team messes up, far fewer sysadmins get > their weekend ruined. > > Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing unoptimized > code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far > more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly written > code. If carbon emissions should turn out to be a strong forcer of global > warming, then we can clearly say that every time you write PHP, Phil Jones > kills a polar bear. Please, think of the polar bears. > > Simon
Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
At least it wasn't a "totally transparent" UPS test scheduled for the Thursday of Thanksgiving weekend. My personal philosophy is that every rack should have its own UPS separate from the data center one, with enough capacity to keep going through blips,and handle a clean shutdown if necessary. That way, when the ops team messes up, far fewer sysadmins get their weekend ruined. Of course, the real problem is that too many people are writing unoptimized code in energy-inefficient languages like ruby and PHP, which require far more servers, and far more cooling, to do the same work as properly written code. If carbon emissions should turn out to be a strong forcer of global warming, then we can clearly say that every time you write PHP, Phil Jones kills a polar bear. Please, think of the polar bears. Simon
[CODE4LIB] OCLC Service Outage Update
Since this topic came up on the list yesterday, here is an official update. Roy Service outage update On Sunday, May 9, the primary OCLC data center in Dublin lost power during required internal facilities maintenance activity. OCLC staff worked diligently to restore services as quickly as possible. All systems are fully recovered and operational. OCLC schedules maintenance activities at typically low usage times. We regret any interruption of service, and apologize for any inconvenience to our users. We are confident that we have put in place systems that address these issues for services today, and we continue to build on those systems to plan for the future. Additionally, in July, OCLC will implement the use of its secondary data center for active/passive service configurations, which can fail-over and back in minutes with minimal manual intervention. In the future, we will be able to use the secondary data center for active/active service configurations, where services are load balanced in both data centers.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Buy, Borrow, or Build
Yup. Buy, build, and borrow are pretty good categories. But sometimes you _think_ you're buying, but you really end up borrowing or even building. Other times, you can know and plan on "borrowing" or "building" even when you buy a proprietary vendor product. And as Ed mentions, another very important point -- it's also possible to succesfully plan on "buying" an open source product, when you've got a vendor contract from a reliable vendor for it. Jonathan Edward M. Corrado wrote: Karen, I would argue that in the cases you described below, one is not simply Buying. You are Buying+Building. Unfortunately sometimes decision makers may not recognize this, or don't take it into account. I think that is something that Jeremy hints at when he says Open Source can be a buy. My take away in this regard is that there should be some recognition in this document that most things will be a combination of at least 2 of the 3 Bs. Edward On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Quoting "Frumkin, Jeremy" : In general, a Buy approach is easiest to determine TCO, while a Build approach is the most difficult. Generally, there are more unknowns with a Build than there are with a Buy. The more unknowns, the greater risk of inaccurate cost estimates. I know this is the common wisdom, but I've had experiences where Buy turned out to be much more expensive than expected. If the product is mature and stable and you expect to do almost no customizing, yes, then Buy is predictable. But if you're on the cutting edge, it's a new vendor offering, you expect to customize, then Buy can have all kinds of hidden costs. In the end, Buy can be more expensive than Build because you have to struggle with a product over which you have no control. When pitting Buy v. Borrow v. Build, functionality has to be taken into account. What do you want the software to do? How big is the market for your functionality? (that is, are vendors likely to step up to this plate?) Are vendors already offering this? kc -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
