Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. I'd add that you should be open to accepting that some of those things STILL won't make sense once you know why librarians do things the way they do. Much of what we do indeed simply doesn't make sense -- I mean, we got here somehow for certain reasons, and understanding the history can help understand how we got to where we are, but often where we are is really really unfortunate. (And even many of us librarians don't entirely understand how we got here, if we're under a certain age!) But anyway, you've probably already seen it, but Jason Thomale's Code4Lib Journal article might be useful for providing some of that background for Marc (although I don't neccesarily think his explanation/analysis/solutions are airtight, they're an introduction).
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Introduction to this community and related conferences really helped my introduction to libraryland and its vernacular. Regards, Tricia On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Laura Smart laura.j.sm...@gmail.comwrote: Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Some lessons from my own introduction coming from an IT/Comp-Sci background years ago. Focus more on the why and use-cases rather than the technology. From a programming perspective much of the technology isn't terribly difficult and is well known at a basic level. How it's used, why certain choices were made is the most important information to convey. If you hired a programmer for a specific task, don't focus on dictating technology, they should tell you what is current, but rather what you need and want from the application. Helping them understand how the data is accessed by your end-users if probably the most valuable information you can convey. Be prepared to answer questions and frustrations with library standards that aren't really machine actionable. One older example is METS, while it is XML, there is very little you can do to infer higher a higher level of organization without extensive best practice description or profiles. -Mike On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:57 PM, P Williams williams.tricia.l...@gmail.com wrote: Introduction to this community and related conferences really helped my introduction to libraryland and its vernacular. Regards, Tricia On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Laura Smart laura.j.sm...@gmail.comwrote: Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
The extended ASCII character set, Latin-1, used in the old MARC systems was always something that was neglected to get mentioned and not at all obvious. Now that more systems are using UNICODE it should be less of a problem, all depends on your system and if you still have legacy data. Sincerely, David Bigwood dbigw...@gmail.com Lunar and Planetary Institute -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Smart Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:04 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
On 22 July 2011, at 1:07 PM, Bigwood, David wrote: The extended ASCII character set, Latin-1, used in the old MARC systems was always something that was neglected to get mentioned and not at all obvious. Now that more systems are using UNICODE it should be less of a problem, all depends on your system and if you still have legacy data. Isn't Marc-8 different than Latin-1 in how it handles accents? At least that's how I read http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/charsets/marc.html ... and I'd never argue with Michael about this. :) Walter Lewis who never met a character set he didn't wish he hadn't *had* to meet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Walter, Yes, it is different. All the different character sets someone could bump into in the library, some not used elsewhere, should be mentioned. I love and agree with that sig :-) Dave -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Walter Lewis Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:12 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci On 22 July 2011, at 1:07 PM, Bigwood, David wrote: The extended ASCII character set, Latin-1, used in the old MARC systems was always something that was neglected to get mentioned and not at all obvious. Now that more systems are using UNICODE it should be less of a problem, all depends on your system and if you still have legacy data. Isn't Marc-8 different than Latin-1 in how it handles accents? At least that's how I read http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/charsets/marc.html ... and I'd never argue with Michael about this. :) Walter Lewis who never met a character set he didn't wish he hadn't *had* to meet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Laura- Yes, that diagram is awesome! It does a great job of dividing up the standards by several different axes. I think the Function section in particular is what I didn't figure out on my own, mostly because I always assumed those functions were all contained in a single standard instead of split across several. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu ...the ridiculous mix of the grand and pathetic, the painfully self-aware and the mockworthy clueless spiritual state that has gotten us so far ahead and so sadly behind the rest of the world. -- Joey Sweeney, Salon On 07 20, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Laura Smart wrote: Esme (and all) Would Jenn Riley Devin Becker's metadata standards visualization have been helpful to you if it had been available back in the day? http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/~jenlrile/metadatamap/ Perhaps a detailed sub-set thereof? Perhaps at minimum a glossary of acronyms commonly tossed about by catalogers? I'd write one but I think I'd be tempted to be snarky when trying to explain RDA in brief... Laura PS re: SAGE, I'd heard. That it was useful/used for so long is a testament to the your development and programming skills and those of Chris Fryman and Brian Tingle. I raise my glass! For the peanut gallery - SAGE was UCSD Lib's home-grown database of web resources that pub services librarians used to create subject-guides on the fly and was a thing of beauty to behold. Would that all software developers do use cases, functional requirements, rapid prototyping/agile development, and usability testing so well! PPS: sorry to all for the somewhat personal communications couched in a public list discussion. The opportunity to publicly sing the praises of the excellent programmers I've been privileged to work with was too tempting to pass up. On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Cowles, Esme escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: Laura- One of the things I wish someone had explained to me at the beginning is all the different metadata standards we use and how they fit together. I'd been working with MARC metadata for years before anyone explained what AACR2 was, or various other controlled vocabulary content standards. In fact, I think it wasn't until I was in a meeting with librarians explaining our metadata to non-library people that I heard a lot of things spelled out. BTW, you might be interested to know that, after many years of faithful service, Sage is going to be decommissioned this Fall.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Laura- One of the things I wish someone had explained to me at the beginning is all the different metadata standards we use and how they fit together. I'd been working with MARC metadata for years before anyone explained what AACR2 was, or various other controlled vocabulary content standards. In fact, I think it wasn't until I was in a meeting with librarians explaining our metadata to non-library people that I heard a lot of things spelled out. BTW, you might be interested to know that, after many years of faithful service, Sage is going to be decommissioned this Fall. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu I went down to my old neighborhood ... and the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-Eleven. -- Social Distortion, Story of My Life From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Laura Smart [laura.j.sm...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 12:04 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Somewhat related is the developing Guide for the Perplexed on the code4lib wiki: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/A_Guide_for_the_Perplexed Feel free to add to it! -Mike On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:04, Laura Smart laura.j.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Hi, Laura. Great question, and one that I have asked myself many times. It is sparsely populated, but there is a wiki page about this here: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/A_Guide_for_the_Perplexed It would be a service to the community if you added any answers you find there. Bess On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Laura Smart wrote: Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Laura, This is a great question, but a very difficult one for me to answer in a clear way. The no-brainers you list make sense to me. For me, libraries and programming developed almost inseperably. I saw the one as the context in which to do the other. I graduated from the University of Illinois with a computer science degree in 1989 and also took some graduate courses in library science. I worked in and around libraries for most of my working life, and much has changed in both fields since then. You might want to turn the question around and ask yourself what new ideas can this person bring into libraryland? My impression has been that libraryland is very insular and self-absorbed to the point that it courts the danger of making itself irrelevant to the rest of the world. For one, the fact that the MARC record format has persisted as it has to this day is mind-boggling. MARC is like a set of blinders that keep people looking library metadata in one particular way long after it has outlived its usefulness. The past few years I have spent in the corporate world doing completely different things, and now I am returning back to the library world with what have I learned out there. AS for an ah-ha moment, my experience in working in a small town library long ago and immersing myself in its every day cycle through its manual circulation system gave me an understanding of how that system works. And I used that as a context for my studies in computer science and work thereafter which turned into a positive cycle. For me, the one gives a reason to do the other. Peter Schlumpf -Original Message- From: Laura Smart laura.j.sm...@gmail.com Sent: Jul 20, 2011 11:04 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Hi Laura: I started working with/for Library stuff in 1994. Been working on it more or less full-time now for nearly half that time. I moved from the IT department and became a library employee several years back. So...CS degree, no library education, but have picked a lot up over the years. One thing that's still not 100% clear to me is the relationship between the types of records. I sort of know how bib, authority, holdings, and item records relate to each other. What I would have found helpful a long time ago would be something like an entity-relationship diagram for these records, with decent text explanations. I could use that even today. Hmm. Perhaps also such a diagram+text for all the workflows in a library. Roy Zimmer Waldo Library Western Michigan University On 7/20/2011 12:04 PM, Laura Smart wrote: Hi folks - What do you include in orientation when you hire a programmer (excellent, experienced, of course), who isn't familiar with library-land? MARC is a given, ditto the ILS, plus e-resource management back end (OpenURL parsers, proxies and the like). From those of you who came into libraries for other industries: what do you wish you knew about libraries, library/info science, and library operations when you began? I'm especially interested in anything which gave you an ah-ha! moment when you were working with library data -- the implicit things which didn't make sense until you knew why those crazy librarians did things the way they did. Also - which resources were particularly valuable to you as you gained familiarity with your new environment? Your insight is deeply appreciated, Laura J. Smart Metadata Services Manager, Caltech Library la...@library.caltech.edu/laura.j.sm...@gmail.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
Esme (and all) Would Jenn Riley Devin Becker's metadata standards visualization have been helpful to you if it had been available back in the day? http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/~jenlrile/metadatamap/ Perhaps a detailed sub-set thereof? Perhaps at minimum a glossary of acronyms commonly tossed about by catalogers? I'd write one but I think I'd be tempted to be snarky when trying to explain RDA in brief... Laura PS re: SAGE, I'd heard. That it was useful/used for so long is a testament to the your development and programming skills and those of Chris Fryman and Brian Tingle. I raise my glass! For the peanut gallery - SAGE was UCSD Lib's home-grown database of web resources that pub services librarians used to create subject-guides on the fly and was a thing of beauty to behold. Would that all software developers do use cases, functional requirements, rapid prototyping/agile development, and usability testing so well! PPS: sorry to all for the somewhat personal communications couched in a public list discussion. The opportunity to publicly sing the praises of the excellent programmers I've been privileged to work with was too tempting to pass up. On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Cowles, Esme escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: Laura- One of the things I wish someone had explained to me at the beginning is all the different metadata standards we use and how they fit together. I'd been working with MARC metadata for years before anyone explained what AACR2 was, or various other controlled vocabulary content standards. In fact, I think it wasn't until I was in a meeting with librarians explaining our metadata to non-library people that I heard a lot of things spelled out. BTW, you might be interested to know that, after many years of faithful service, Sage is going to be decommissioned this Fall.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Programmer Orientation to Library/Lib Sci
On 20 July 2011 22:47, Laura Smart laura.j.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Esme (and all) Would Jenn Riley Devin Becker's metadata standards visualization have been helpful to you if it had been available back in the day? http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/~jenlrile/metadatamap/ Perhaps a detailed sub-set thereof? Perhaps at minimum a glossary of acronyms commonly tossed about by catalogers? I'd write one but I think I'd be tempted to be snarky when trying to explain RDA in brief... This reminded me of one more resource that might be useful for newcomers -- a very short list that I wrote entitled All You Need to Know about XML in One Page. http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/xml.html And while I am self-publicising, I may as well mention a longer, but easy-to-read article that several people have liked: One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor --- or --- Why your data may not be as meta as you think it is. http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/metadata.html Some of the specific technologies that it mentions are a bit dates, but the concepts are pretty timeless. Hope this is useful to someone. -- Mike. Laura PS re: SAGE, I'd heard. That it was useful/used for so long is a testament to the your development and programming skills and those of Chris Fryman and Brian Tingle. I raise my glass! For the peanut gallery - SAGE was UCSD Lib's home-grown database of web resources that pub services librarians used to create subject-guides on the fly and was a thing of beauty to behold. Would that all software developers do use cases, functional requirements, rapid prototyping/agile development, and usability testing so well! PPS: sorry to all for the somewhat personal communications couched in a public list discussion. The opportunity to publicly sing the praises of the excellent programmers I've been privileged to work with was too tempting to pass up. On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Cowles, Esme escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: Laura- One of the things I wish someone had explained to me at the beginning is all the different metadata standards we use and how they fit together. I'd been working with MARC metadata for years before anyone explained what AACR2 was, or various other controlled vocabulary content standards. In fact, I think it wasn't until I was in a meeting with librarians explaining our metadata to non-library people that I heard a lot of things spelled out. BTW, you might be interested to know that, after many years of faithful service, Sage is going to be decommissioned this Fall.
