Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
There are going to be culture classes as we try to move towards becoming
one big happy family.
did you mean 'clashes'? just want to make sure, since it changes the
meaning a little.. :-)
Ouch! Yes. Ever notice how many of your typos end up being amaz
Count me in for providing whatever assistance I can spare for helping
Tapestry join Jakarta. Just ping me and let me know what if anything I
can do to help.
Erik
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Mr Ship,
I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
feel the same as I
Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> There are going to be culture classes as we try to move towards becoming
> one big happy family.
did you mean 'clashes'? just want to make sure, since it changes the
meaning a little.. :-)
> Most of it is due to ingrained assumptions that
> we have all built up over long per
Peter Donald wrote:
Why do non-committers care about how Apache is evolving? And if they care so
much why aren't they committers?
There are going to be culture classes as we try to move towards becoming
one big happy family. Most of it is due to ingrained assumptions that
we have all built up o
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 3:41 PM
> View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
> the archive
+1
> View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
> (highly contributive developers and us
On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 05:55:22PM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Okay. Sam and others have convinced me. . though I reserve the right
> to taunt you all when the J.D.s enter and we have too much goofiness
> (more than I cause that is ;-) )
>
> lets open it up and see what happens. if havo
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 23:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Three views exist presently on this list's "openness". The purpose of
> this list is to fascillitate community development among the various
> disconneted groups in Apache. Then to further discuss issues that
> affect the community as a whole.
you may have encountered me more often as the rodent of unusual size.
or maybe not. :-)
i've put a brief blurb about my apache activities online at
http://www.apache.org/~coar/>, but here are the basics:
i've been involved with apache since 1996, i'm on the board
of directors, i'm on four pmcs (h
"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[...]
> Please state your view
Excerpts from Stephano Mazzocchi's announcement:
--
[...]
This mail list will be closed to committers only, the citizens of the
Apache Software Foundation, and will s
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
* On 2002-10-25 at 22:53,
Erik Abele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> excited the electrons to say:
Perhaps we should propose another posting on the different
developer-/committer-lists? It seems that Greg's and Stefano's postings
did not really reach all the committers out the
* Greg Stein ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 09:38:03AM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> >...
> > View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
> > the archive
>
> -1
>
> > View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
> > (hi
On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 09:38:03AM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>...
> View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
> the archive
-1
> View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
> (highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting g
> [ ] View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post
and read
> the archive
> [ X ] View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and
invitees
> (highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting goes,
> however allow anyone to read or view th
Okay. Sam and others have convinced me. . though I reserve the right
to taunt you all when the J.D.s enter and we have too much goofiness
(more than I cause that is ;-) )
lets open it up and see what happens. if havoc is wreaked its
correctable so I change my vote to +1 for all open. I thin
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
the archive
+1
View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
(highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting goes,
however allow anyone to read or view the archive (a
"Andrew C. Oliver" wrote:
>
> >who, me? heh. everyone knows me; i'm the git with the big mouth. :-/
> >
> >
> With that description (remember that negativity was supposed to be left
> on reorg@) they might confuse you for me ;-)
oh, all right..
--
#kenP-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinin
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
Interestingly, this vote also helps crystalize who we think the "Apache
community" really is.
+1
-Sam Ruby
--- Steven Noels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
> > And, IMHO, any open source developer community
> that tries to ignore
> > users of its products is going to become insular
> and self absorbed.
>
> +1
>
> Given the number of committers on an Apache-wide
> scale, w
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
"Andrew C. Oliver" wrote:
So why don't you go next...with the introductions...
who, me? heh. everyone knows me; i'm the git with the big mouth. :-/
With that description (remember that negativity was supposed to be left
on reorg@) they might confuse you f
I'm unable to assimilate this list *and* reorg on top of everything else, but
Craig's point is a good one, so in deference to both of the above
+0
d.
> Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
> > And, IMHO, any open source developer community that tries to ignore
> > users of its products is going to
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
> And, IMHO, any open source developer community that tries to ignore
> users of its products is going to become insular and self absorbed.
+1
Given the number of committers on an Apache-wide scale, what I post is
meant for global consumption already - and I don't see wh
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Possible Solutions:
1. Requisition a $200-$600 intel box, stick some form of free unix
(*BSD, Linux) and write a simple script that does this
2. Give me all appropriate karma and I'll add it to my existing script
that does this for POI. It runs remotely, scp's the files o
i think that's a bit more negatively stated than necessary. try:
'allow posting by committers, members, and invitees, and restrict
access to the archives to the subscribers.'
totally agree. I'm suprised. Thats not the kind of tactic I usually see
from Craig :-(
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
* On 2002-10-26 at 10:05,
Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> excited the electrons to say:
View 3: Close the list to all except members and committers.
i think that's a bit more negatively stated than necessary. try:
'allow posting by committers, members, a
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> This is a symptom of having certain constituency that fails the basic
> UNIX literacy test. So ssh'ing to a UNIX box and creating a .forward
> file is difficult.
>
> solution:
Solution is that when a new person is voted for committership, they are
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is the appropriate email. It even says so in the
site CVS repository. (The only reason I'm not shifting this thread
back to site-dev@ is that perhaps people don't know about it.)
cool! And now I know.
And as we have said many times before, the only reason we store the
indeed. i have a more-than-sneaking suspicion that an awful lot
of [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses don't reach their owners. i think
that's something that should be fixed, since it means they're
not being notified of things sent to committers@, which by
definition concern them..
so by all means the
View 1: +1 Sam, Steven Noles
View 2: +1 Andy
+1
I see no reason to not have an open archive, but am fine with the list
being restricted, with exceptions on a case by case basis (although for
every exception I'm inclined to ask, so why isn't this valuable
contributor a committer? Oh yes, tha
"Andrew C. Oliver" wrote:
>
> So why don't you go next...with the introductions...
who, me? heh. everyone knows me; i'm the git with the big mouth. :-/
--
#kenP-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Mill
* On 2002-10-25 at 22:53,
Erik Abele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> excited the electrons to say:
>
> Perhaps we should propose another posting on the different
> developer-/committer-lists? It seems that Greg's and Stefano's postings
> did not really reach all the committers out there ;-(
indeed. i ha
* On 2002-10-26 at 10:05,
Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> excited the electrons to say:
>
> View 3: Close the list to all except members and committers.
i think that's a bit more negatively stated than necessary. try:
'allow posting by committers, members, and invitees, and restrict
acce
> Am I dreaming to believe that such an approach would be attractive to a
> broader set of developers?
+1 on the whole "essay" ;)
Mvgr,
Martin
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> I'd like to propose each committer to build a simple home page like that
> one. Knowing each other is the first step towards building a stronger
> community. And presenting ourselves to the outer world (this list is
> closed) is a step towards widenin
> [ ] View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
> the archive
> [X] View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
> (highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting goes,
> however allow anyone to read or view the archive
On Saturday, October 26, 2002, at 04:32 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Well, I for one am pretty amazed this thread forked back onto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
yes...lets squash it with your introduction :-)
I hate writing about myself. I've been around Apache on and off since
March or April 1995. I built th
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>
> Three views exist presently on this list's "openness". The purpose of
> this list is to fascillitate community development among the various
> disconneted groups in Apache. Then to further discuss issues that
> affect the community as a whole.
>
--On Saturday, October 26, 2002 10:33 AM -0400 "Andrew C. Oliver"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
on me right (from someone)? Well time to fix that. Secondly...who
even knows how to update the www.apache.org site... I sure don't
and couldn't get an answer on where to send the patches...
[EMAIL PROTEC
On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 09:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Three views exist presently on this list's "openness". The purpose of
> this list is to fascillitate community development among the various
> disconneted groups in Apache. Then to further discuss issues that
> affect the community as a w
> View 1: +1 Sam, Steven Noles
-1. This is like having a 'world' list. Chances are good
that the signal/noise ratio will be quite bad.
> View 2: +1 Andy
-0.9
> View 3: +1 Ken
+1.
Sander
>View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
the archive
+1
On 26/10/02 16:10, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
> relatively painless (sorry for the cross post, I don't like talking
> about people behind their back...I prefer a more personal approach to
> insults...hehe ;-) )
Steven Noels wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
View 1: +1 Sam, Steven Noles
aaargh - you did it again :-)
that's Steven-with-a-traling-n (first name) Noels (last name,
pronounced like 'news' in English, but then with an 'L' instead ;-)
Sorry.. I'm from Florida oringally.. I keep thinking of you
+1 - I like the position and the policy :-)
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Sorry for the cross post Lets move this to community.
Think about infrastructure, pr, website content management, etc etc -
all things without a real 'project' (only in the technical sense of a
CVS module), but still resources o
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
the archive
View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
(highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting goes,
however allow anyone to read or view the archive (and
Hi All,
I'm a committer on the avalon project over at apache. I'm Dutch, 19
years of age, student of technical physics, and part time programmer. I
think American beers don't deserve the name, the Ozzies bake the best
hamburgers, no-one can beat Dutch cheese, western European climate is
laughable,
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
View 1: +1 Sam, Steven Noles
aaargh - you did it again :-)
that's Steven-with-a-traling-n (first name) Noels (last name, pronounced
like 'news' in English, but then with an 'L' instead ;-)
--
Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/
Outerthought -
> View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
> the archive
> View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
> (highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting goes,
> however allow anyone to read or view the archive (and include an arc
Now, this looks like a little bit contradictory to me, you say "let's vote"
(and I assume that the Jakarta community needs to vote), the Jakarta
president says "let's make Incubator vote, and Tapestry be our guinea pig".
So? I think Sam and Ken and the rest are committed to making this
relati
Thats view 3. (the ezmlm archive is of course always available)
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
+1 on View 2, without the public archive. Everyone having access here should
be able to get to some kind private archive though ;)
Mvgr,
Martin
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[E
That's why I have built a short home page at
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain where I briefly present myself. It's
not about pushing my ego, but about showing who's behind the abstract
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Great Bio! My sympathy for teetering so close to having to deal with
teenagers... My 9 yea
Like the idea.. Since I am already working on a personal webpage since 1998,
it should be time to actually finish it one day ;)
Mvgr,
Martin
> -Original Message-
> From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 13:44
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject:
On 26/10/02 15:20, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this).
>
> The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
>
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So differen
> View 3: Close the list to all except members and committers.
+1
-Fitz
Sorry for the cross post Lets move this to community.
Think about infrastructure, pr, website content management, etc etc -
all things without a real 'project' (only in the technical sense of a
CVS module), but still resources our community needs, hence
contributors to those resources should be
"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 27/10/2002 12:20:26 AM:
> Mr Ship,
>
> I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
> feel the same as I on this).
> The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
> Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anyt
Mr Ship,
I totally disagree with Pier's statement (and you'll find many here will
feel the same as I on this).
The opinion of Tapestry joining is very good.
Realize Apache is more like a confederation than anything. So different
people feel
differently. We're still ironing out a new process a
+1 on View 2, without the public archive. Everyone having access here should
be able to get to some kind private archive though ;)
Mvgr,
Martin
> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 15:38
> To: community@apache.org
> Sub
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe, post and read
the archive
View 2: Keep the list open only to committers, members and invitees
(highly contributive developers and users) so far as posting goes,
however allow anyone to read or view the archive (and
On Sat, Oct 26, 2002 at 09:38:03AM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Three views exist presently on this list's "openness". The purpose of
> this list is to fascillitate community development among the various
> disconneted groups in Apache. Then to further discuss issues that
> affect the comm
Three views exist presently on this list's "openness". The purpose of
this list is to fascillitate community development among the various
disconneted groups in Apache. Then to further discuss issues that
affect the community as a whole.
View 1: Open the list completely, anyone can subscribe,
An honor more like. . Plus the opportunity to have more influence
in/benefit from the most influential software development
organization ever. Certainly this involves responsibility.
Few things worth anything don't.
Ok ... lets take this a little step further - what are the
reponsibilities
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
well principally you should be interested in this communication.
Another PRO...
more opportunity for ant committers to become recognized and achieve
membership.
.. um, you say that like there is an end-gain
An honor more like. . Plus the opportunity to h
well principally you should be interested in this communication.
Another PRO...
more opportunity for ant committers to become recognized and achieve
membership.
.. um, you say that like there is an end-gain
An honor more like. . Plus the opportunity to have more influence
in/ben
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
> Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
sure.
--
#kenP-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium han
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
It is possible for a person to be on more than one PMC. It is also
possible to voluntarily resign from one PMC so that one can focus on
other things.
- Sam Ruby
What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 26/10
The idea:
ant.apache.org would become a valid url
Good move - presumably could be indendent of the rest of the points ?
This has been asked but not answered. I think the answer is probably no
as those are reserved for top level projects. (I prefer the answer to
be yes...but I don't think it
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
If you're not real bored and you made it this far down... you can
read more here: http://www.trilug.org/~acoliver.
Apache spirit is about community. But building a community in the
virtual world of the Internet is not easy. We slowly learn to know
people through their
Well, I for one am pretty amazed this thread forked back onto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
yes...lets squash it with your introduction :-)
Chuck
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Saturday, October 26, 2002, at 02:25 AM, Peter Donald wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:03, David Reid wrote:
I do find it fascinating to note the active participants in this
discussion
now. They've changed dramatically from the start of this discussion
and now
seem to be heavily "Jakarta" orient
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:03, David Reid wrote:
>
> I do find it fascinating to note the active participants in this discussion
> now. They've changed dramatically from the start of this discussion and now
> seem to be heavily "Jakarta" oriented while the people who started this
> discussion have lar
I do find it fascinating to note the active participants in this discussion
now. They've changed dramatically from the start of this discussion and now
seem to be heavily "Jakarta" oriented while the people who started this
discussion have largely left as the volume has increased and the topics
s
Or, most people just want to be left alone to write code. :-)
Amen :)
And remain committers without wanting to becoming members; they just
can't stand these time-consuming "politics".
why there are no politics in the sourceforge cvs repository ;-)
generally no community either... ;-)
If true, this should induce a certain conservatism of approach in
those who are driving the reorg aganda. There's a silent majority out
there who just getting on with the code.
Peter
So now we're sampling Richard Nixon ;-)
> David Reid wrote:
> >>On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Erik Abele wrote:
> >>
> >>> From a moderators POV I can say, that mostly the people which are
> >>>subscribed to reorg@ have also joined [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>
> >>>Perhaps we should propose another posting on the different
> >>>developer-/committer-li
David Reid wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Erik Abele wrote:
From a moderators POV I can say, that mostly the people which are
subscribed to reorg@ have also joined [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perhaps we should propose another posting on the different
developer-/committer-lists? It seems that Greg's and Stefano'
David Reid wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, Erik Abele wrote:
From a moderators POV I can say, that mostly the people which are
subscribed to reorg@ have also joined [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perhaps we should propose another posting on the different
developer-/committer-lists? It seems that Greg's and Stefano
We have to start moving threads off of reorg. Please do not cross-post.
Oh - What's "open"? I'd suggest:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], members, board lists: mandatory subscriptions to only the
communities; only subscribers can post; archives are private but
accessible by the constituencies (in case of board
go for it.
Erik Abele wrote:
From a moderators POV I can say, that mostly the people which are
subscribed to reorg@ have also joined [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perhaps we should propose another posting on the different
developer-/committer-lists? It seems that Greg's and Stefano's
postings did not reall
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