Good to hear there are developers keen on making the it just
works work for normal users, I'm moving more and more from a
technical geek to a just need it to work for me user:-). Also very
pleasing to see there is a lot of Mac users interested in this
project. I assume many others will
But it's comments like yours that turn it into something like a
religion. The person who proposed this in the first place had a
pragmatic argument, not a religious one. Relative to many of you I
know little about GNU and Linux but I can certainly see the practical
reasons for using the
When I first started the NSLU2-Linux (www.nslu2-linux.org) project 2.5
years ago, I explicitly banned all discussion of licensing on the
mailing list (nslu2-linux is a mixture of mostly GPL and MIT licenses,
but also has some proprietary Intel licensed microcode due to the hardware).
Why did I do
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:12:22 +
Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But it's comments like yours that turn it into something like a
religion. The person who proposed this in the first place had a
pragmatic argument, not a religious one. Relative to many of you I
know little
Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
Is anyone looking into the difficulty of porting old PalmOS
applications to OpenMoko? There are a few of them that I'd really
hate to lose (the Pilot-DB flat-file database and the Timing multiple
timer are two I use a lot, and haven't seen any equivalent Linux
programs for).
From: Rok Ruzic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 2007-01-21 10:14:52 CET
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Free Your Phone
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:12:22 +
Renaissance Man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But it's comments like yours that turn it into something like a
religion. The
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 10:23:24AM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
Since everyone is drooling about the next iteration of the Neo which is
exptected to include WiFi, I figured I'd add a request for USB 2.0. This
allows us to use a USB VGA adapter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Harald Welte schreef:
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 10:23:24AM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
Since everyone is drooling about the next iteration of the Neo which is
exptected to include WiFi, I figured I'd add a request for USB 2.0. This
allows us to use a
Hi,
I joined the list today and have read through most of the discussions.
As others here I am very excited about this new device and looking
forward to get my hands on one.
I like my games few and simple, so most of the time I play GJeweled and
FrozenBubble.I see that they were not mentioned so
* Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070121 06:44]:
keep in mind, you'll only get USB 1.1 speeds :(
USB1.1 are almost certainly ok for a phone, this are not
high-performance cluster nodes, just power-saving phones.
And especially 11mps WLan works perfect with USB1, I guess 54mps will
work ok too, albeit
Mikko Rauhala writes:
la, 2007-01-20 kello 23:25 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer kirjoitti:
Simon writes:
keep in mind, you'll only get USB 1.1 speeds :(
Unfortunate, but I'll take it. Actually, I'm curious as to why that
decision was made... but I'll take it.
It's been mentioned here before; the SoC
Paul Bohme writes:
Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
Is anyone looking into the difficulty of porting old PalmOS
applications to OpenMoko? There are a few of them that I'd really
hate to lose (the Pilot-DB flat-file database and the Timing multiple
timer are two I use a lot, and haven't seen any equivalent
On 1/21/07 4:57 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 20/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the OpenMoko Linux Distribution
Can the FIC marketting department call it 'the OpenMoko GNU/Linux
Distribution'?
We'll just call it OpenMoko. I think short simple branding
Am 21.01.2007 um 15:16 schrieb tony:
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Sharing applications is much more complex and more or less means
removing some parts of OpenMoko (e.g. GTK, the built in
applications) and replacing with a MacOS/Cocoa compatible software
layer. The best thing with
Hya,
I'm new to the list, so I don't know whether this was already discussed, but
I'm surprised (and a bit sorry) that the OpenMoKo spec doesn't include WiFi
- I'm currently using an HTC Universal and would very much like to switch to
the MoKo as soon as it's available, but I find that the WiFi
I would like to propose the creation of alt.flame.open-source-license.
I See A Great Need.
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2007/1/21, Tom Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I'm new to the list, so I don't know whether this was already discussed, but
I'm surprised (and a bit sorry) that the OpenMoKo spec doesn't include WiFi
Whoa, you are right! Nobody noticed this thing before you mentioned it!
--
Tomek Z.
[EMAIL
What is the rationale behind the exclusion of WiFi?
The long and short of it is that there¹s no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip
available which has an open driver, or at least there wasn¹t when the
hardware design got nailed down. It¹s too late in the process to add one
now, but maybe in some
On 1/21/07 5:52 AM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wouldn't say the API is as bad as you do, but
it's certainly *different*.
Only from Linux. It's actually very similar to the pre-OS X Mac OS APIs...
Making legacy apps written for the Garnet OS (née Palm OS) run on Linux
is
The point you are avoiding or ignoring is that GNU people are ascribing
credit for a single principle contributor. If a contributor of a
dwindling side of a ratio of software is a principle, then so must
everything else be that went into the development of Linux and this
phone that is larger.
Microsoft push email isn't push at all. If you read the
specifications, it's just another method of polling a server to
determine if and what segments of new content is ready for transfer.
Just like ETRN, POP3, and IMAP, none of it requires human intervention
and all of it can poll for new
And what are the GNU free distributions to be called? If you cut
yourself, do you get a bandaid or medically sterile adsorbent pad
attached to an affixable length of flexible material? Band-aid may be
trademarked and copyrighted, but that's still what everyone calls such
items and there
The discussion whether to call it Linux or GNU/Linux has been going on
for some time and now it is also on this mailinglist.
May I suggest a compromise: If you want to call it GNU/Linux, then
call it GNU/Linux, but stop bothering people that calls it Linux. If
you want to call it Linux, then
So, since it's just pending, that means that an implementation of something
that works in the same way would only be legal to distribute on borrowed
time?
I'm not that much into patent laws, but how long can it take for a patent to
get accepted/rejected?
Since a method like this seems very
The term Push email comes from a client signing on to the server and
issuing a look for ... instruction to the server. Also known as
idling or long-delay poll.
The logic of it is to have the client only issue new look for ...
instructions when those instructions change, and until the client
On 1/21/07, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the rationale behind the exclusion of WiFi?
The long and short of it is that there's no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip
available which has an open driver, or at least there wasn't when the
hardware design got nailed down. It's too
On 1/21/07, Tom Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the rationale behind the exclusion of WiFi? Will you consider
including it on future revisions? Will it be possible to extend the MoKo
with a WiFi card or something like that?
See: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess
On 1/21/07, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The discussion whether to call it Linux or GNU/Linux has been going on
for some time and now it is also on this mailinglist.
May I suggest a compromise: If you want to call it GNU/Linux, then
call it GNU/Linux, but stop bothering people that calls
* domenica 21 gennaio 2007, alle 14:40, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
SIM == Subscriber Identity Module. Don't think copying will work.
Well, technically the SIM provides the cryptographic secrets that are
needed to logon onto the GSM network. Don't think you can copy it, BUT
there are a number
Done:
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/QuestionsAndAnswers
Hurray! The power of the open source community!
=D
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Salve!
Robert Michel schrieb am Samstag, den 20. Januar 2007 um 16:47h:
Dear OpenMoko fellows!
Seans mail sounds like a manifesto, Debian has one,too, so
what do you think when we community would having one as well
to emphasise our effort to share knowhow, skills and solutions,
and to
Microsoft push email isn't push at all. If you read the
specifications, it's just another method of polling a server to
determine if and what segments of new content is ready for transfer.
Hmmm well I'm not an expert so whatever you say however from my
understanding it is the server that
Salve Tim!
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007, Tim Newsom wrote:
It might be interesting to build some capability into the help system
where people can submit tips for applications, or even help information,
which gets sent to some openmoko.org repository and packaged up like an
rss feed.
Yes this is
Hi,
it's still always the same problem:
Mobile phones' displays are to small (size or resolution) to view documents,
ebooks, whatever - but they are small to carry with.
On the other hand PDAs are to large to carry with but are a better
solution for ebooks or reading texts - but is it large
Am 21.01.2007 um 18:17 schrieb Uwe Koch:
I think it must be possible to integrate 3 neccessary LEDs into the
next gen
Neo, and display the Display - say on a letter format size - to a
white wall!
3 LEDs is not enough. You need something to make the beam scan the
wall rectangle you want
Paul Bohme writes:
Making legacy apps written for the Garnet OS (née Palm OS) run on Linux
is decidedly non-trivial. An emulator for this is going to be part of the
ACCESS Linux Platform...
Interesting - so an emulator for the old 68k stuff?
Yes. Their mockup of the interface shows the
All servers using current methods are notifying the client that new
content is available using current protocols.
The server can't know where the client is until the client pipes up and
says i'm over here at 10.0.0.5 nor can they know what is new content
unless the client tells them what they
I think you need to also put it on the wiki of Ideas. :)
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMokoIdeas
Perhaps we need to separate between ideas for future hardware, and ideas for
software?
As for the idea, I think it has merit, although I'm not sure how good the
picture quality would be.
On 1/21/07, Wil Chung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think you need to also put it on the wiki of Ideas. :)
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMokoIdeas
I have created: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ExternalDisplay
/Ole
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On Sunday 21 January 2007 09:05, Ole Tange wrote:
snip
If people ask you why you chose the one then answer them politely by
personal email.
Another solution is to ignore the thread. Most/all mail clients have this
ability, for good reason.[1]
In the mean time, those who still desire to
On Sunday 21 January 2007 18:46, Wil Chung wrote:
Dr. H., I agree that it needs a beam scanner, on first though, but does it
have to be mechanical? I know you can direct radio waves with something
like a phase array, might not light be directed with a phase array? I
don't know, as it's just
Hi Sean!
On 21/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/21/07 4:57 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 20/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the OpenMoko Linux Distribution
Can the FIC marketting department call it 'the OpenMoko GNU/Linux
Distribution'?
Hello.
Just some sunday fun.
I resized the Neo1973 Mock-up and write a small description for xoo.
http://projects.o-hand.com/xoo
It's not really useable at all, as you need a really high screen
resolution to fit the whole picture on your screen. And of course the
dpi are wrong. Even no buttons
Heh, I think OpenMoko needs a web forum, otherwise such subjects are
going to be done to death over and over. I recently just sparked a
big discussion on just this subject Tom. I'm of much the same opinion
as you. The absence of WiFi appears to be purely down to technical
issues, but
Well, that wasn't so hard now was it. Maybe those who're so keen to
make a big fuss and accuse people like Crossland of religious fervour
could take a page out of Sean's book?
Renaissance Man
On 21 Jan 2007, at 2:28 pm, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
On 1/21/07 4:57 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL
I'm not that much into patent laws, but how long can it take for a patent
to get accepted/rejected?
With good lawyers and enough cash, I've heard of companies pulling this out
to like 10 years
On 1/21/07, Ulrik Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, since it's just pending, that means that
That might be the case if those who oppose the use of GNU actually
had a rational case. The fact is they just don't; it's mostly just an
emotional reaction from what I can see.
Renaissance Man
On 21 Jan 2007, at 8:09 pm, David Ford wrote:
Your statement should read ... Maybe those who're
On 20/01/07, Declan Naughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Join us. Free Your Phone.
I totally love this catch phrase! I hope that the FIC marketting uses
it as the official tagline of all its openmoko devices!
If freedom is a real goal then I agree.
And I'm not so sure that is is. It seems
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Koen Kooi wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Harald Welte schreef:
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 10:23:24AM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
Since everyone is drooling about the next iteration of the Neo which is
exptected to include WiFi, I figured I'd add a
On 20/01/07, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Changing the system title to include GNU/Linux, would increase public
awareness of GNU, but I don't see how it would directly improve the
technology or how it would sell more Neo's
If more people are aware of why freedom and community
On 1/21/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 20/01/07, Declan Naughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Join us. Free Your Phone.
I totally love this catch phrase! I hope that the FIC marketting uses
it as the official tagline of all its openmoko devices!
If freedom is a real
Join us. Free Your Phone.
I totally love this catch phrase! I hope that the FIC marketting uses
it as the official tagline of all its openmoko devices!
It will for sure! This just popped into my head one day while taking a
shower. I think it's really started to stick. Plus somebody who knows
One of the great strengths of the open community is the myriad of inputs
coming from its members (ie. posts to a mailing list). Unfortunately, it
can also be one of its weakness. There is an increased probability of a
degradation in the signal-to-noise ratio. Also, discussions could go on
so many
On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 21:58 +0100, Milan Votava wrote:
It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is
1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo
or
2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while
exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-)
I sincerely
On 21 Jan 2007, at 9:01 pm, David Schlesinger wrote:
I don't actually believe this, other than for the excruciatingly
small minority of people who hang out on mailing lists such as this
one. The overwhelming majority of people neither know nor care what
the operating system on their
On 1/21/07, David Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How does the end result differ from anything I or any on my side of the
fence have suggested? Nothing changed so why bring it up in the first
place? Both sides accuse the other of this fervour. Why slight one
side of the fence?
Reread the
Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it
means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about
GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them.
That's nice. I simply doubt that they'll be making cell phone purchasing
decisions based on that
No more comments to the list on this. I've already covered your below
response.
-david
Renaissance Man wrote:
That might be the case if those who oppose the use of GNU actually
had a rational case. The fact is they just don't; it's mostly just an
emotional reaction from what I can see.
I don't believe that one must always forgo open source toys to earn
money. In my opinion, customer service is by far the most important
element of making a lot of money. Make happy customers with whatever
your product is and it's viral. Your product doesn't have to be the
cure that saves us
On Sunday 21 January 2007 13:58, Milan Votava wrote:
It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is
1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo
or
2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while
exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-)
I bet the
On Sunday 21 January 2007 14:20, Ted Lemon wrote:
I think that if the discussion here can be tolerated, it's
better because it's cross-pollinating.
snip
Generally speaking, what helps on mailing lists is actually two-
fold.
snip
First, we need to exercise restraint.
snip
part of
On 21 Jan 2007, at 9:54 pm, David Schlesinger wrote:
Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it
means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about
GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them.
That's nice.
The point is these people are certainly
On 20/01/07, Andreas Jellinghaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Credit whom credit is due. Either they accept that credit is givin to
everyone, and that this is a long list, and that if people highlight
some feature of their choice it is freedom of speach, or they don't.
but the gnu way of placing
Please take this off the list :) You and I disagree about whether they
are pushing their name more than pushing free software. You and I are
not going to agree on this, nor will others. Free software existed
before GNU, it will exist after GNU. To be honest, it was Linux that
catapulted
On 21/01/07, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Although I support the goals of the FSF, I hold progress ahead
of my political philosophy.
To value a political stance over practical progress does go counter
to our general culture, which encourages us to dismiss any philosophy
that
On 21/01/07, Corey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Personally, I never actually use the GNU/Linux identifier - but I can
understand
the logic and reasoning behind it, and it certainly doesn't bother me when other
people use it.
If you understand the reasoning, I'm curious why you don't use it..?
On 21/01/07, David Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
p.s. it's religious and for every one that feels GNU should be the sole
title bearer, there is another that feels they should not.
No one is advocating that GNU be the *sole* title bearer, although
plenty of people are advocating that Linux be
On 21/01/07, David Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
in the near future someone else will ask openmoko to prefix their name
with GNU and it'll start all over again.
I did not ask OpenMoKo to prefix their name with GNU. I apologies if
that was not clear.
--
Regards,
Dave
On 21/01/07, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it
means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about
GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them.
That's nice. I simply doubt that they'll be
On Sunday 21 January 2007 21:18, Richi Plana wrote:
Is that even such a big difference that a patent can be granted? What if
we implemented something similar with the same variations as above? For
instance, why stop at grouping keys in horizontal groups. People could
potentially tap on the
On 21 Jan 2007, at 10:58 pm, David Ford wrote:
Free software existed before GNU, it will exist after GNU.
Yes, but will we still enjoy the freedom it was intended to bring? Or
will it be a mix of free and unfree components barely usable without
the unfree components that users will expect
On 21/01/07, Corey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sunday 21 January 2007 13:58, Milan Votava wrote:
It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is
1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo
or
2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while
exploiting geeks like us to
I agree that something, anything, that will help me justify upgrading my
phone every six months is needed. In my case I particularly feel the need
for 3G but I want to get building right now, on v1.
I'd personally settle for a minor discount on the next version for so called
early adopters. But
Hello all,
On this recent discussion on yes/no GNU/Linux, I saw this and that
popped up a question for me:
On 1/21/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
If more people are aware of why freedom and community matter, then
they will buy more products that support freedom and community,
On 1/21/07, Ulrik Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, since it's just pending, that means that an implementation of something
that works in the same way would only be legal to distribute on borrowed
time?
Patent-Pending is a warning. It basically means this: If you do
anything even remotely
Harald Welte writes:
On Sun, Jan 21, 2007 at 06:56:30AM -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
Harald Welte writes:
The main problem (with more powerful SoC) is not to provide a USB2.0
host port in the device. The main problem is power. You need a pretty
powerful DC/DC step-up converter to provide the
Milan Votava writes:
It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is
1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo
or
2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while
exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-)
I bet the second will prove as true...
If I get my
On 1/22/07 4:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Join us. Free Your Phone.
I totally love this catch phrase! I hope that the FIC marketting uses
it as the official tagline of all its openmoko devices!
It will for sure! This just popped into my head one day while taking a
On Jan 21, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
Hehe...waterproof phones would be really cool. It's just so expensive.
Sort of on that same note, though, once the design becomes a little
more solid, building some additional durability into the phone would
be a nice thing. So many
Thanks!
The fact that it's so big isn't much of an issue. Just hold down the
Alt key and you can grab anywhere in the window and move it around to
see all of the actual display area.
...a quick hint for getting a command-line: Go to the Device menu and
choose preferences. Then put in
If you have fluxbox installed:
/usr/bin/fluxbox
will give you a nice little environment to play in
--
Daniel Bartholomew
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On 1/22/07 2:36 AM, Stefan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyway, I thought it could be fun to see and play with.
http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/OpenMoko/neo1973-xoo-device.tar.bz2
Start with 'xoo --device /path/to/neo1973.xml'
Wow somebody buy this guy a beer!
-Sean
On 1/22/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am 21.01.2007 um 18:17 schrieb Uwe Koch:
I think it must be possible to integrate 3 neccessary LEDs into the
next gen
Neo, and display the Display - say on a letter format size - to a
white wall!
3 LEDs is not enough. You need
On 1/22/07 6:38 AM, Steve Grevemeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The one idea I did see in the last couple of days that I think NEED to
get some serious attention is that of an upgrade path for developers.
I promise not to leave you guys hanging. I just don't have a good plan
worked out yet.
tron? like this?(http://codeninja.de/tron/) I'm down. we've got agps, and
the data link should be fast enough to relay position data. it's a whole
lot more manageable on the bike... could make a case for that environment
hardened device.
On 1/16/07, el jefe delito [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey,
What do you guys think about creating a nice lib which makes it easy
for games to support different multiplayer modes?
Live connection over Bluetooth and/or GPRS (Perhaps mixed). Play by
mail over email or sms. It would be awesome if we could switch
between the modes as well for
one of the more in the loop guys will have to get back to you on this...
sean said that there are stylus window templates in the UI.
Me I'm hoping for a stylus that's a little less of a cheap plastic stick
than most of these things seem to have
On 1/17/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 22/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I promise not to leave you guys hanging. I just don't have a good plan
worked out yet. Lucky for me I still have time ;-)
-Sean
That's good enough for me, thanks Sean.
Justyn
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Dnia poniedziałek, 22 stycznia 2007 04:51, Corey napisał:
On Sunday 21 January 2007 20:43, Greg Tada wrote:
I'd like to help out this project, I really would. But when zealots
like Renaissance Man (Who calls themselves that? Yeah that's not
pretentious at all) et al hijack this list for
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvtAAXTIlg
Nothing new, but still worth watch :-)
--
Tomek Z.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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