Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
On Friday 04 May 2007 06:09, Hans L wrote: out. AFAIK Stereo sound works best when the sources are far apart, but in this case they are essentially coming from the same point in space. IMBWOTO, but the idea of small stereo devices is that the two speakers emit sound in different directions, and since this is usually done indoors, the paths of the channels will be different bouncing off walls and thus you will hear a stereo effect (it is not a question how much apart the sources are, but rather how different the sound is at your left and right ear). Outdoor use or use in rooms with bad audio characteristics will hinder this approach, of course. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
My experience was very different. My Tapwave Zodiac (best portable thing ever made... *sigh*) had awesome stereo sound, even without headphones. It's also quite noticable with other devices whether they have stereo sound or not. The problem with the 1973 is that it will probably be rotated a lot. You'll watch movies in widescreen. Two speakers above each other won't really help there. But maybe the third speaker will be used in that case? No idea if it's powerfull enough and possible with the hardware... Ortwin On 5/4/07, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know at least one simple fix for shaving off a few grams. IMO there is really no reason to have *two* speakers in the phone. Take one out. AFAIK Stereo sound works best when the sources are far apart, but in this case they are essentially coming from the same point in space. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. I have had the NEO in my hands and although the numbers may make if sound like it is chunky it is not AND when held gives you the feeling that it is rather drop-safe. Personally I prefer 'robustness' over 'light weight'. (Hell, I still run around with my NOKIA 6130 which to any modern standard looks like a brick, but I lost track of how many times it dropped on the floor) W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Am 03.05.2007 um 13:32 schrieb Ian Stirling: wim delvaux wrote: FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. No. It is easy to make a fragile looking device that is robust and vice versa. It is more the mixture of materials that determines the robustness and finishing which determines how robust it looks. And finally a smaller device has less inertia so it is more robust. Look at an ant. It can fall from 10m and survives... I have had the NEO in my hands and although the numbers may make if sound like it is chunky it is not AND when held gives you the feeling that it is rather drop-safe. Personally I prefer 'robustness' over 'light weight'. (Hell, I still run around with my NOKIA 6130 which to any modern standard looks like a brick, but I lost track of how many times it dropped on the floor) This is why I want some tests. I want a few - say 3 or 4 - representative neo1973's, with the production case, though PCB style possibly isn't so important, dropped from progressively increasing heights (one test onto carpet, one onto concrete), on all six sides, all functionality verified until they break. (say 10cm, 14cm, 20cm, 28, 40, ...) Similar tests done with dropping a 10mm steel ball onto the display. No, of course I don't plan on dropping it. It would be rather nice to know 'it will probably die if I drop it 1m onto concrete'. It is industry standard to do such drop tests for consumer devices. A mobile phone manufacturer I know much better than FIC, has made drop tests from 1.5m onto concrete and a device had to pass 10 such falls without noticable severe damage (only the battery compartment was allowed to open and the battery come out and of course some scratches). So, I would assume that FIC's quality assurance department already does such tests - and I hope they publish the results. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 03.05.2007 um 13:32 schrieb Ian Stirling: wim delvaux wrote: FWIW, most of these 'light' phones do seem so 'fragile'. It looks like any drop from pocket or table might smash them to bits. Less weight generally means more flimsy devices. No. It is easy to make a fragile looking device that is robust and vice versa. It is more the mixture of materials that determines the robustness and finishing which determines how robust it looks. And finally a smaller device has less inertia so it is more robust. Look at an ant. It can fall from 10m and survives... That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. I suppose it's not that long given current trends till phones can be dropped from any distance as they'll hit terminal velocity at a safe speed. I suppose some stuff - microSD cards, for example, already can be dropped from any height. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. Hmm do you propose a furry casing? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
I think is better to compare with this nokia new model, price is also interesting( in Italy) 9300i 172g 132x51x21 mm 126cc 475€ wifi E65 115g 105x49x15.5mm74cc 360€ wifi N95 120g 99x53x21mm 728€ GPS+wifi also interesting this model without phone: N800 206g 75x144x13 mm 137 cc 392€ wifi ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Sander van Grieken wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. Hmm do you propose a furry casing? I have in the past proposed little legs and arms like seen in the adverts. Fur would just be fun. However. To stop it getting tangled up, it'd have to be able to groom itself. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Ian Stirling writes: Sander van Grieken wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: That's not solely robustness though, air resistance helps lots too. Hmm do you propose a furry casing? I have in the past proposed little legs and arms like seen in the adverts. Fur would just be fun. However. To stop it getting tangled up, it'd have to be able to groom itself. That's what the little arms and legs are for. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Hmm... I cannot find any good reason to have 2 speakers eighter. Maybe the reason is that they want the sound to be better distributed in all direction? - Anyway, you can always remove one or two speakers when you get the phone. It is not very complicated. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Hello, here's the size and weight of a few touchscreen mobile phones: Neo1973 iPhone M600i LG Prada length (mm) 120.7115 107 98.8 width 62 61 57 54 height18.5 11.6 15 12 weight (g)184 135 112 85 screen (inch) 2.8 3.5 2.6 3.0 As you can see, the Neo1973 is by far the heaviest of the phones with touchscreen. It's also the biggest. It weighs almost *twice* as much as the LG Prada, despite having a smaller screen! It's also 50% thicker than the Prada (which, unfortunately, isn't a smartphone). The iPhone has a *much bigger* screen than the Neo1973 and it's still smaller and a lot lighter. When designing future models, I'd really like to see something light and small (but still with a touchscreen). I've been carrying around a rather fat and heavy (160g) P800 phone for the last years and it's annoying. I was going to buy a Sony Ericsson M600i phone but then the Neo1973 was announced... I know the Neo1973 has an awesome hires-screen and I look forward to it, but sooner rather than later I want to have a lighter, thinner phone once again.. -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Please consider dpi comparison in which Neo is unbeatable winner. The display of the Neo is definitely great, but I agree with Sven, the device is a bit too big. Especially it is too thick. I think the iPhone can only be so thin because the battery is built-in. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Maciej Ligenza wrote: Sven, On 5/2/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's also the biggest. It weighs almost *twice* as much as the LG Prada, despite having a smaller screen! [..cut..] The iPhone has a *much bigger* screen than the Neo1973 and it's still smaller and a lot lighter. Please consider dpi comparison in which Neo is unbeatable winner. Well - yes. But with antialiasing, at normal phone distances, telling between 140 and 280 DPI isn't trivial, with normal phone-sized text. Yes, it makes the text a tiny bit sharper, and if you bring it to 20cm from the eye, and have good eyes, you can read 80*25 text on it, but... If you could knock off 50g by going to 240*320, I suspect I would. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ian Stirling wrote: Maciej Ligenza wrote: Sven, On 5/2/07, Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's also the biggest. It weighs almost *twice* as much as the LG Prada, despite having a smaller screen! [..cut..] The iPhone has a *much bigger* screen than the Neo1973 and it's still smaller and a lot lighter. Please consider dpi comparison in which Neo is unbeatable winner. Well - yes. But with antialiasing, at normal phone distances, telling between 140 and 280 DPI isn't trivial, with normal phone-sized text. Yes, it makes the text a tiny bit sharper, and if you bring it to 20cm from the eye, and have good eyes, you can read 80*25 text on it, but... If you could knock off 50g by going to 240*320, I suspect I would. Not really, 50g really are not relevant. Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGOJEbHJdudm4KnO0RAmMkAKC8GsMUS733Mw3fzDwulyhDoGah5ACg3I9W YR5kgwy5ome1+8Uf4IceS/o= =eAMw -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Subject: Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices Date: Wed 02 May 07 03:24:43PM +0200 Quoting Andreas Kostyrka ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Yes, it makes the text a tiny bit sharper, and if you bring it to 20cm from the eye, and have good eyes, you can read 80*25 text on it, but... If you could knock off 50g by going to 240*320, I suspect I would. Not really, 50g really are not relevant. I would like to state how little I appreciate this race towards reduced size and weight in telephones. For me, a telephone has to be felt, both in the hand and in the pocket. Too small a phone is unwieldy to use and way too easy to lose. More functions, yes. If the openmoko was two times its weight, but it sported a 20G hard disk, a qwerty keyboard, and very good audio quality via headphones, all this with 10 hours or more of audio playback battery time, it would be my ideal piece of equipment. At FIC they not have the budget of Apple, and they do not have the possibility to market a product at a loss, I presume. The sales point of the Openmoko phone is its extraordinary adaptability to the needs of resourceful people, not its size or weight. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
50g is a huge difference. It is the exact difference between a RAZR and an i-mate JAM (O2 XDA mini II, Qtek S100) is exactly 50g. Having owned both, I can tell that it is a very noticable difference. I did not know the Neo1973 was that heavy. This completely changes my view of the device. I personally do not want to carry anything heavier than an A1200 (120g). Just my 2 cents, Eric __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Dnia środa, 2 maja 2007, Andreas Kostyrka napisał: It's a smartphone, so let's compare it to smartphones: Nokia 9500: 56.9mm x 148.1mm x 23.9mm 229.9g T-mobile MDA compact III: 58.0mm x 108.0mm x 17.0mm 127.0g T-mobile Vario II:58.0mm x 113.0mm x 22.0mm 160.0g Nokia E61 69.7mm x 117.0mm x 14.0mm 144.0g Sorry, that doesn't look that bad to me. Actually, these are all devices without GPS, OTOH, they do have a better GSM/UMTS module. Then compare it to HTC Artemis: 108 x 58 x 16.3 mm, 127 g WiFi, BT 2.0, GPS, GSM, EDGE, FM Radio It has QVGA screen 2.8, cpu: omap850 200MHz, 64M ram, 128M flash. And it have nice controller ;) http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-artemis-en.shtml -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Any smoothly functioning technology will have the appearance of magic. -- Arthur C. Clarke ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Quoth your link: All in all, the P3300 features a typical display for a Windows Mobile-powered communicator, which doesn't stand out against the background of its rivals. It's just another Windows PDA/phone. Boring. -Steven On 5/2/07, Marcin Juszkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dnia środa, 2 maja 2007, Andreas Kostyrka napisał: It's a smartphone, so let's compare it to smartphones: Nokia 9500: 56.9mm x 148.1mm x 23.9mm 229.9g T-mobile MDA compact III: 58.0mm x 108.0mm x 17.0mm 127.0g T-mobile Vario II:58.0mm x 113.0mm x 22.0mm 160.0g Nokia E61 69.7mm x 117.0mm x 14.0mm 144.0g Sorry, that doesn't look that bad to me. Actually, these are all devices without GPS, OTOH, they do have a better GSM/UMTS module. Then compare it to HTC Artemis: 108 x 58 x 16.3 mm, 127 g WiFi, BT 2.0, GPS, GSM, EDGE, FM Radio It has QVGA screen 2.8, cpu: omap850 200MHz, 64M ram, 128M flash. And it have nice controller ;) http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-artemis-en.shtml -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Any smoothly functioning technology will have the appearance of magic. -- Arthur C. Clarke ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Am Mittwoch, 2. Mai 2007 19:16 schrieb Marcin Juszkiewicz: Then compare it to HTC Artemis: It has QVGA screen 2.8, cpu: omap850 200MHz, 64M ram, 128M flash. omap850 is probably the worst modern CPU for running Linux. It is slow, undocumented and uses main DRAM for the GSM operation. There are much better alternatives using PXA27x and s3c2442. Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Size and weight considerations for future Openmoko devices
Dnia środa, 2 maja 2007, Steven ** napisał: It's just another Windows PDA/phone. Boring. It is also small, light and have interesting input device which allow to do most of tasks with one hand. Most of current devices are boring. Neo is also huge and thick. Battery cover feel like 'I will life own live when you shake device'. -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate... leads to suffering. -- Yoda ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
