Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

--From: Nishal GoburdhanDate: Thu, Dec 20, 2018 11:23 AMTo: General Discussions of AFRINIC;Cc: Subject:Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - On 20 Dec 2018, at 17:14, Gregoire Ehoumi via Community-Discuss wrote: > You suddenly discovered a bug in the system? Congr

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

On 20 Dec 2018, at 17:14, Gregoire Ehoumi via Community-Discuss wrote: You suddenly discovered a bug in the system? Congrats But I see no bug . The normal course of proceedings follow the RSA then the policies and the BCP's. when the policy that allowed afrinic space to be resold to other

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

20, 2018 8:10 AMTo: Gregoire Ehoumi;Chevalier du Borg;Jackson Muthili;Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC;Subject:Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - And that raises the question - what happens when the policies conflict with the rsa. Because

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Owen, The reported class was the most debated part of the proposal and it has evolved significantly. Anything to add as improvement? See new thread on rpd. - https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008952.html Review policy is in the purview of the PDP as it falls under "proper and

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

, 2018 4:02 AMTo: Chevalier du Borg;Jackson Muthili;Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC;Subject:Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - Just for clarity –   If space was allocated before the soft landing policy came into force – there was no policy whatsoever

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

To: Andrew Alston; Chevalier du Borg; Jackson Muthili Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - Andrew , You seem to be mixing things and on purpose. Whether the initial submission documents are missing or that policies do

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 19, 2018, at 13:41 , Komi Elitcha wrote: > > Owen, > > RSA reiterates AFRINIC mandate "to fulfill a stewardship role for those > number resources allocated to it, for the use of the African Internet > community as constituted by its members collectively" and grants Afrinic the >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Owen, RSA reiterates AFRINIC mandate "to fulfill a stewardship role for those number resources allocated to it, for the use of the African Internet community as constituted by its members collectively" and grants Afrinic the rights to review members anytime and at its discretion and makes

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - Hello all Le mer. 19 déc. 2018 à 08:40, Jackson Muthili mailto:jacksonmu...@gmail.com>> a écrit : clearly nobody is against the general idea of the custodians of the IP resources all

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Dear Frank, At 08:51 PM 12-12-2018, Frank Habicht wrote: My level of interest is this: I would like to continue having a working, responsive, RIR for Africa, maintaining some numbers assignments/allocations, in a fair, predictable manner, that should not spend the majority(or a major share)

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hello all Le mer. 19 déc. 2018 à 08:40, Jackson Muthili a écrit : > > > clearly nobody is against the general idea of the custodians of the IP > resources allocated to Africa to check that these are used for the > purpose they have been allocated to us as you put it. > > it is the how. > >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 12:14 AM Boubakar Barry wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 8:56 PM Jackson Muthili > wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:38 PM Benjamin Eshun >> wrote: >> > >> > Jackson, >> > >> > Just a simple question. >> > >> > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:16 AM Jackson Muthili

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

It is the reported class which is the main sticking point here. Anyone who has worked for a large organization with a complex network will see the obvious opportunity for abuse here. Without that category in the proposed policy, AfriNIC has the discretion to follow up on a report if the find

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 8:56 PM Jackson Muthili wrote: > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:38 PM Benjamin Eshun > wrote: > > > > Jackson, > > > > Just a simple question. > > > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:16 AM Jackson Muthili > wrote: > > > > > > A policy that incites or stimulates divisiveness,

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:38 PM Benjamin Eshun wrote: > > Jackson, > > Just a simple question. > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:16 AM Jackson Muthili > wrote: > > > > A policy that incites or stimulates divisiveness, targeting and > > victimizing is very, very bad. > > How does a proposed

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Jackson, Just a simple question. On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:16 AM Jackson Muthili wrote: > > A policy that incites or stimulates divisiveness, targeting and > victimizing is very, very bad. > How does a proposed policy that gives guidelines to AFRINIC to carry out audit and review of INR that

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

ed this email saying it amuses me – the fact that the fears are being > shown to be very correct is amusing – at the same time – its horrifying to > see the policy process abused in this manner. > > > > Andrew > > > > > > From: Komi Elitcha > Sent: 18 December

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

in this manner. Andrew From: Komi Elitcha Sent: 18 December 2018 10:49 To: Owen DeLong Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - Owen, The association between larus, cloud innovation and outsideHeaven has been shared

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Owen, The association between larus, cloud innovation and outsideHeaven has been shared on this list before - https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007352.html Curiously, you always have strong opinions about policy proposals, but never have time to look archives to clarify important

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

...@wacren.net] Sent: 18 December 2018 07:58 AM To: Owen DeLong Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - On 15 Dec 2018, at 03:39, Owen DeLong mailto:o...@delong.com> > wrote: My first work with Larus began shortly

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On 15 Dec 2018, at 03:39, Owen DeLong wrote: > > My first work with Larus began shortly before the Dakar meeting last June. > You can review the record for yourself, you will see that I have expressed > objection to every version of the review policy since its inception well > before the

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 16, 2018, at 12:11 , Komi Elitcha wrote: > > Owen, > > Le 15/12/2018 à 02:39, Owen DeLong a écrit : >> >> >>> On Dec 14, 2018, at 16:01 , Komi Elitcha >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Owen Larus is a resource holder like any other resource holder.

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Owen, Le 15/12/2018 à 02:39, Owen DeLong a écrit : > > >> On Dec 14, 2018, at 16:01 , Komi Elitcha > > wrote: >> >> >> >> Owen >>> Larus is a resource holder like any other resource holder. The fact that >>> they are a large resource holder does not make them any

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 14, 2018, at 16:01 , Komi Elitcha wrote: > > > > Owen >> Larus is a resource holder like any other resource holder. The fact that >> they are a large resource holder does not make them any worse or >> better than any other resource holder, so I’m not sure why you believe >> the

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Owen > Larus is a resource holder like any other resource holder. The fact that > they are a large resource holder does not make them any worse or > better than any other resource holder, so I’m not sure why you believe > the number of IPv4 addresses they hold have any bearing on the >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Dear Owen, At 11:38 AM 13-12-2018, Owen DeLong wrote: Do you believe me to be in error? If so, please point to something that contradicts my statement. I don't know whether the statement is correct or not. Regards, S. Moonesamy ___

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

I believe so… Do you believe me to be in error? If so, please point to something that contradicts my statement. Owen > On Dec 13, 2018, at 00:01 , S Moonesamy wrote: > > Dear Owen, > At 11:20 AM 12-12-2018, Owen DeLong wrote: >> In order for a person to have a conflict of interest, several

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Dear Owen, At 11:20 AM 12-12-2018, Owen DeLong wrote: In order for a person to have a conflict of interest, several things must be present: 1.They must have a greater level of influence in the policy outcome than any general member of the polity. (e.g. co-chair, board member, etc.) The

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi, inline... On 12/12/2018 22:20, Owen DeLong wrote: Actually, it isn’t. AfriNIC can enforce the RSA without this review policy. This review policy doesn’t enable AfriNIC to do anything AfriNIC can’t already do. Yes. Agree. What it does do is (potentially) force AfriNIC to take on

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 12, 2018, at 08:33 , Gregoire Ehoumi wrote: > > > The point makes perfect sense. Any organisation holding IP's from AFRINC is > only doing so in trust and not their property, It can be recalled back at > any time if/when AFRINIC believes that they are not being used for the >

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 12, 2018, at 02:38 , Chevalier du Borg wrote: > > > > Le mar. 11 déc. 2018 à 19:41, Andrew Alston > a écrit : > If OIF were try to put french citizen people on AFRINIC board, your argument > will make sense. It is not. If you have evidence

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

From: Andrew Alston Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 7:01 PM To: Badru Ntege , Chevalier du Borg Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - See – I see these as totally unsubstantiated allegations

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

;Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC;Subject:Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - The argument about conflict is simply non-sensical, since any person holding IP space on the continent is potentially conflicted in ANY policy through the PDP.  The point

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

: Badru Ntege Date: Wednesday, 12 December 2018 at 07:01 To: Chevalier du Borg , Andrew Alston Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - From: Chevalier du Borg Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:42 PM To: Andrew

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

From: Chevalier du Borg Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:42 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - As to everything having been review and ok by AFRINIC, please note

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Le mar. 11 déc. 2018 à 19:41, Andrew Alston a écrit : > >- If OIF were try to put french citizen people on AFRINIC board, your >argument will make sense. It is not. If you have evidence to show it has, >please share and tell us how they benefit from it. > > > > Actually this claim

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 11, 2018, at 03:07 , Benjamin Eshun wrote: > > Owen, > > This thread is not about a particular policy as community is > discussing two possible threats to Afrinic PDP and its governance in > general. Did I say that it was? If so, please point to it. > Your obstinacy to discuss

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Borg, On 12/11/18 7:01 PM, Chevalier du Borg wrote: > > I mean, **if** AFRINIC obliges it fellow to support a position that may > be benefit the company (afrinic) against the community. it is corruption.  >   Thank you for clarifying with the **if** ;-) Yes, from that point of view, it

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - Owen, This thread is not about a particular policy as community is discussing two possible threats to Afrinic PDP and its governance in general. Your obstinacy to discuss and oppose review proposal everywhere

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

* If OIF were try to put french citizen people on AFRINIC board, your argument will make sense. It is not. If you have evidence to show it has, please share and tell us how they benefit from it. Actually this claim concerns me more than anything and highlights everything I believe is wrong

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Le mar. 11 déc. 2018 à 18:06, Alan Barrett a écrit : > > > > AFRINIC public policy meetings have always been open to all. The policy > development process even specifies "Anyone may participate via the Internet > or in person.” > This is problem that need to be fix. Only people who will deal

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Le mar. 11 déc. 2018 à 11:21, Owen DeLong a écrit : > > > While I have done some work for Larus, I have never been instructed by > Larus on what opinion I should hold or express. > It just happen that you vehement oppose the same policy that they oppose. And the reason why it problematic is

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On 10 Dec 2018, at 21:47, Chittesh Sham wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Thank you for the information. I understand that AFRINIC is very liberal in > allowing external sponsorship by AFRINIC members for their employees to > attend AFRINIC meetings and i firmly believe in this as it encourages

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Owen, This thread is not about a particular policy as community is discussing two possible threats to Afrinic PDP and its governance in general. Your obstinacy to discuss and oppose review proposal everywhere and at any occasions, made me doubt and question your real relationship with

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On 10 Dec 2018, at 21:32, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Are there any published details on the In-Kind Sponsorship [1] for > AFRINIC events? We publish the names of all sponsors. In-kind sponsorship is typically from the local host, and from one or more bandwidth sponsors. Regards, Alan

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On Dec 10, 2018, at 06:35 , Benjamin Eshun wrote: > > Oga Sunday, > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:33 AM Sunday Folayan wrote: >> >> Lieutenant General Borg, >> >> I agree to some parts about corrupt companies and innocent states. >> >> It is corruption all the way, if the State owns the

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Alan, Thank you for the information. I understand that AFRINIC is very liberal in allowing external sponsorship by AFRINIC members for their employees to attend AFRINIC meetings and i firmly  believe in this as it encourages others to do the same and grows the community. What i'm curious

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Alan, On 12/10/18 6:54 PM, Alan Barrett wrote: > > At one time, AFRINIC had an arrangement with OIF, where AFRINIC would assist > in arranging travel for OIF fellows, but that arrangement lapsed some years > ago. Are there any published details on the In-Kind Sponsorship [1] for AFRINIC

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Andrew, On 12/10/18 5:59 PM, Andrew Alston wrote: > Personally I believe that people should declare their affiliations - > it’s just not required, and actually when I have on at least two > occasions state the organizations who I am making statements on behalf > of - I was told that

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Willy, On 12/10/18 5:30 PM, Willy MANGA wrote: > The most important here is : if the organization has a fellowship > program or kind of, I suggested to publish it on their website with > details (announcements, requirements, results,...). > AFRINIC, ICANN fellowship program for instance have

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

> On 10 Dec 2018, at 18:34, Chittesh Sham wrote: > > Hi Willy, > > I agree with you that organisations (outside fellowship programs) should have > a set of clearly defined rules both for their fellows as well for other > stakeholders involved. > > But the main parties such as AFRINIC and

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Andrew, Le 10/12/2018 à 14:59, Andrew Alston a écrit : > Hi Willy, > > Just to correct one thing - there is no obligation to state affiliation in > the context of the PDP - in fact anyone is free to state an opinion that is > entirely their own. In this context I consider 'state an opinion

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Willy, I agree with you that organisations (outside fellowship programs) should have a set of clearly defined rules both for their fellows as well for other stakeholders involved. But the main parties such as AFRINIC and ICAAN should also set some rules for those outside fellowship

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Willy, The agenda as advertised by a fellowship programme and what it actually does on-site might be contradictory. Any organization may write that they are offering a fellowship programme for the betterment of the Internet in the African region, while in fact, they have a more obscure and

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

eLearning Unit University of Ghana Computing Systems University of Ghana Cell: +233244659245 Skype: kooissi From: Ish Sookun Sent: 10 December 2018 11:01:30 To: Chevalier du Borg; General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi Borg, I speak as a former AFRINIC Fellow [1] and your comment regarding the AFRINIC Fellowship doesn't seem clear to me. Do you mean that AFRINIC Fellows take side of a specific company, which is against the community? I'd like to add that the Fellows are on-site during the meeting and anyone

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting - Great idea Mr Manga, We need to have guideline for sponsoring attendance in forms of fellowship. However much I like the idea, I don't believe it can be enforced as a mandatory practice, but seeing it as a general

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

  Great idea Mr Manga, We need to have guideline for sponsoring attendance in forms of fellowship.However much I like the idea, I don't believe it can be enforced as a mandatory practice, but seeing it as a general guideline would be good a good thing and with some help can even be promoted.I

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Hi, Le 10/12/2018 à 07:23, Chevalier du Borg a écrit : > I have hear of > > - Larus Foundation Fellowship > - OIF Fellowship From my humble point of view, if there is a fellowship-like program in these organizations (and others) a better transparency will be to clearly state on their website:

Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Lieutenant General Borg, I agree to some parts about corrupt companies and innocent states. It is corruption all the way, if the State owns the Company. Especially when the voice of the company is the voice of the Nation. We are threading on thin boundaries here. Sunday. On Mon, Dec 10,

[Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

I have hear of - Larus Foundation Fellowship - OIF Fellowship all in addition to AFRINIC fellowship. I have hear people try to compare the two and it a FALSE comparison. Here is why. Policy can benefit or harm Larus (the AFRINIC member). Same is not true of OIF I will also be very concern if