Openstreetmap is essentially useless.
I say this as someone who is an active contributor.
In _many_ years, it may be a viable alternative, but as an example, my
local town of 4 people (Glenrothes) was entirely missing, and Dundee
(140K) had only one road. There are hot-spots where it is
Thomas Gstädtner wrote:
Well, this answer is not too bad and maybe better than expected.
will keep an eye on it could mean, that TomTom will wait and see how
the first OpenMoko Phones (Neo1973 Phase 2) sell.
If the sales are ok, maybe they release their software for OpenMoko.
I think you're
Ian Darwin wrote:
I think you're right; after the first 250,000 or so Neo 1973 phones have
been sold, they *may* look again. There are currently under 350
signups, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. If you just want to
use a $350 Neo as a $200 GPS, you might as well spend the time
Raphaël Jacquot wrote:
Ian Darwin wrote:
I'd like to have good maps, and as you implied, OpenStreetMap (OSM) is
probably years - maybe decades - from having comprehensive maps of the
world. Much digitization required :-).
this actually depends on where you're located.
Yes, clearly some
A simple app to add data for the OpenStreetMap project on OpenMoko
will probably help a lot.
Absolutely. And I'm sure several of these will come into being.
If you want reuse, however, you should think about writing it in Java.
Believe that there will be good Java ME implementations for
Frank Coenen wrote:
What is wrong with just using the stylus?
I've tried it with my Wacom tabled, Dasher works great!
If your using an on screen keyboard, you'll need the stylus anyway.
This is a bit OT but, if you are using the stylus, some people may find
it more efficient to use simplified
please point your browsers to http://de.sun.com/
I am not sure how long it will be there - but to see is JavaFX
Mobile - with a (slightly trimmed?) Neo1973 and you can see the
FIC-Logo.
I think the Neo _has_ some attention.
The hardware in that demo is almost incidental.
JavaFX Mobile is a
Ian Darwin wrote:
... Or, it might be
better to do our own port of phoneME to OpenMoko. I don't know which
approach is better in the long run.
Err, not to mention that there are already Linux/ARM binaries of phoneME
available for free (GPL) from Sun at this page:
https
Joachim Steiger wrote:
due to a lot of spam/edits by bots we now have limited the write access
to users who have registered a working email-address.
were sorry for that.
A pretty obvious step, that most Wikis have taken or will soon.
The last few will probably be forced to (or shut down) by
I understand your concern. I have at the moment 2 Neo1973
pre-production handsets in my hand. So if this is vaporware they are
*really* going the extra mile to make it look convincing.
Is there anything I can do to put your mind at ease? Will photos of
opening it help, so you can see it really
Given the iMpending release of the iHyped iPhone, iMight suggest that
now is a good time for this project to blow our own horn since we
(will) have some of the same features - large touch screen - but also
free/open software. I'm not suggesting we try to sell anything that's
not in place yet,
Frederic Kettelhoit wrote:
Annother possible scenario:
Neo: Hi, I'm an Neo.
iPhone: And I'm an iPhone.
* iPhone looks on a big map and tries to orientate himself
Neo: What are you doing?
iPhone: I try to locate myself by using Google Maps.
Neo: Oh, that doesn't seem to be very exciting. I use
It's on the wiki already...
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Also, I guess when the author says navigational software shouldn't be a
problem because TomTom runs Linux, he's wrong, right? (That was a weird
sentence)
Some or all of the commercial TomTom units run Linux internally, and,
they have software-only products (e.g., I think this is what Palm
Several people have asked whether they will be able to buy just the
GTA02 motherboard as an upgrade.
To save Sean answering this one, he's still looking into it, and they're
*very* busy (exhausted) this week drinking from the firehose of having
the store go online. The question I think is not
Several weeks ago Sean wrote:
I totally agree with your points. Please keep in mind that this was our
first design. And that we are using an ID design that simply wasn't made
for what this project has become. It was originally designed for a
completely different usage scenario.
I just came
Ken Young wrote:
I ordered the neo1973 on the first day the openmoko.com site went
live. Today I received a message, saying that to confirm the order,
I must reply to the email with a message containing (as the first
characters of an otherwise empty line) the string YES_I_DO . However,
David Lefty Schlesinger wrote:
(And you're using _gmail_? Wow.)
Good one!
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I completely agree. My idea is to make two advertisment campains: one on
maisntream media: maybe tv, maybe radio, flyre, poster, newspapers,
wathever. This ads would be something like: The free phone, OpenMoko.
The only one with The OpenMoko: now with builtin navigator and
so on. Don't
Ben Burdette wrote:
Great video! the OFone, which way is up on this thing?
I'd rather not go with oPhone, it sounds derivative of the iPhone. Like
the openmoko phone is a cheap wannabe iPhone. I don't people to have
that impression.
What about a nice industrial-style alphanumeric
Brad Pitcher wrote:
I'm in a similar situation, I'm leaving for OSCON on Sunday. I will
attend a BoF at Ubuntu Live Sunday night and another one at OSCON
Thursday night. I desperately want to bring my phone with me. I paid
for 3-day shipping but now it looks like it may not get here quite
There's
nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's,
including your neo.
There's nothing stopping a toll highway operator from blocking unbranded
cars either. But do they? Does any GSM provider block unbranded IMEIs?
I know in Canada we have one GSM carrier (under two
Me too. Looks like they broke the logjam!
Ian
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coomac wrote:
On 7/23/07, *Ian Darwin* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Maybe so, but as has been pointed out, phonecams are banned in a lot of
places, many of them businesses. Go buy an HP or Fuji (or whatever)
camera with 5MP and optical zoom for a hundred bucks
There's a *lot* of prior art in chord keyboards (as they're normally
called), and they work really well in a lot of environments. I
suspect I might like five nicely-spaced buttons so I could do
one-handed typing on the phone.
You can imagine a chord keyboard that fits in your pocket so you
David Gathright wrote:
Hey, all! I've been following OpenMoko for a while now and have just joined
this list. I hope this question is on-topic.
I've been looking for information on whether or not it will be possible with
OpenMoko to disable the data link to the cell phone company. I can't
Tim Milliken wrote:
I am looking into joining in on this project. Welcome aboard!
Welcome aboard!
I am a windows programmer
and know almost nothing about Linux. Where should I start? Can anyone
give me some starting points on getting started. Like do I have to be
running Linux as a host
PS - That reminds me... am I the only one who thinks you should be able to
select power off from the battery status icon?
Or the end of main menu, by analogy with File-Quit (or Close).
Either way, it should be clear.
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Best feature would be a Eliza bot in mailman that automagically goes
through this discussion without bothering the subscribers to the list :)
Now that's the best contribution to this whole discussion. Since no 12
developers will ever agree on subject line munging, top/bottom posting,
or
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
Product development is messy. There are literally hundreds of components
in this device, all needing to be sourced with different lead times from
different vendors. If SDRAM becomes scarce, we suffer. If a vendor has
yield problems, so we do we.
I encourage you (and
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,137046-c,iphone/article.html
Subtitled What consumers and companies should have learned from the
recent Apple iPhone price cuts and subsequent backlash.
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Please remember that this is the third, not the second, Linux-based
phone stack for the Neo1973.
Sun, at JavaOne in May, showed a working prototype of a Linux-based Java
phone stack running on the Neo1973. There are many pictures of this on
the web (look in the Press page on the OpenMoko
On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 20:40 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would you really say either gnome or is wasted effort and should be
discontinued? Or vim/gnome,linux/bsd,gecko/webkit/mysql/postgres...
Yes, it's my personal belief that these projects all represent wasted effort
and that if they
BBC NEWS | Technology | Apple iPhone warning proves true
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7017660.stm
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Steve wrote:
You may want to do the opposite. Your phone may think it's being stolen
if you happen to get on something like a wireless connection with
NoCatSplash. (Which hijacks the first attempt to grab a web page in
order to show you a welcome page.)
I'd be tempted to have PGP signed
Brad Pitcher wrote:
The Ubuntu equivalent to setenv is export. Maybe you can just change
them?
Good heavens. Ubuntu wrote their own shell? :-) I think not.
setenv is a csh-ism.
export is a POSIX/sh/ksh/bash-ism (i.e. all mainstream shells).
Friends don't let friends write csh scripts. :-)
has anyone tried this, or even found the download (assuming it's free)?
There is a free download, that you can find from the first page of the
article. Or just go to the bottom of this page
http://www.ok-labs.com/technology/
and click Download.
It might be a good way to switch between
Doug Sutherland wrote:
Compulab does have, and has always had, very interesting
embedded boards. But before you get excited about this one
that the article states starting at $122 ... Unless they have
changed their way of doing sales, you don't just buy one
module, you buy an evaluation kit,
... I'm assuming that it runs or will run
Openmoko.
Tim O'Reilly said so too:
http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/10/dash_web2summit_openmoko.html
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It was FIC's window 6-8 months ago but now when the industry stalwarts
are crashing at your door it's time to close up shop, sit on the beach
and think of the next coolest thing.
This project has shown remarkable resilience in the past; people said
the same thing when QTopia was
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6217131.html
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Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if
the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one.
But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea
for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs
several times a
In other words, pretty much nothing (except for your *very* generous
offer to update phones in person, for which thanks!!).
This is not an occasion for us all to vent frustration at Sean, Mike, et
al. However it is a very good occasion to restate something: everyone,
at all times, involved
Thomas Wood wrote:
On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 09:52 -0600, Tim Shannon wrote:
I'm curious if anyone knows that status of an Email app. I though
originally there was going to be one app that handled all
communication, SMS, internet chat, email, etc, but I haven't seen
anything like this with the
Daniel Robinson wrote:
Would someone take me off this goddamn list, again?
I was subscribed to it once, and unsubbed, but I keep showing up on it.
What the hell is going on?
You know, that's pretty strong language. There are worse things in the
world than accidentally getting back on a
flexd wrote:
If you just obey the law, when will they ever need to track you?
Are you serious? Or was that tongue-in-cheek?
That's entirely the wrong kind of question to ask. The question is: if
you just obey the law, why would they need to track you? And so, why do
they need these powers
However, it would be nice if you could just put a sim card into the
Neo (or other OpenMoko) phone, select copy sim to softsim from the
menu, and have a software copy of the sim available in the phone.
Then you could change back to another physical sim card, and you would
have dual sim
Verizon Wireless opens up
In a stunning about-face, the second-largest wireless carrier in the US,
Verizon Wireless, has said that it would allow any compatible device to
run on its cellular network by the end of next year. What's more, users
will be able to run any application they wish,
If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both
phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might
provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging
an encryption key.
So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm able to ping the phone and my laptop, too.
But I can't connect to the internet: ...
We had two different responses:
1) Mickey concluded it must be resolv.conf;
2) Dr. Schaller concluded the notebook doesn't have
IP forwarding turned on.
How can we
andy selby wrote:
Can anyone comment on this company?
http://www.fluffyspider.com/resources/press/pr.20070925.0.html
that picture of the neo is an early photoshopped version from the
openmoko press office with a screenshot of their software superimposed
on it.
couldn't they get a SH1 neo to
On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 02:03:01PM +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
Well, first, it will be less of a decision, but rather something like survival
of the fittest. Second, compiled languages are fine for performance
critical stuff. Coding application logic in a scripting language makes
much
Wallace Jackson wrote:
... Also, I saw a NEO1973 on Sun's
JavaFX announcement release on-line, behind the
presenter (bigger than life!)... Does this mean that
JavaFX is ready to rock for NEO application?
No. Sun were nice enough to credit OpenMoko for making a superior Linux
phone (see their
Wallace Jackson wrote:
Ian:
Thanks! Is Jalimo superior to AWT?
That's rather like asking if JDK is superior to AWT :-)
Jalimo is an IMPLEMENTATION, as is Sun's JDK (nowadays more formally
called the Java SE SDK). They both offer the AWT API, as well as Swing
and zillions of other APIs.
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 04:36:52PM +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
QTopia). But it will probably NOT be easily miscible with the OpenMoko
software. It's a complete phone stack, like OpenMoko, like Android, like
QTopia.
You can run QTopia on OpenMoko today.
See
Audrius Meskauskas wrote:
Wallace Jackson wrote:
Also, I saw a NEO1973 on Sun's
JavaFX announcement release on-line, behind the
presenter (bigger than life!)... Does this mean that
JavaFX is ready to rock for NEO application?
This seems not very likely: JavaFX is something highly advanced
Christ van Willegen wrote:
Hello,
since everyone is editting at the moment... may I suggest
standardising dates on the wiki to ISO 8601 coding, or -mm-dd.
Agree!
20080706 is clearer and much less troublesome to understand.
I hope you mean 2008-07-06 not 20080706.
[an inverted
Marcus Bauer wrote:
Quick answer: on a N810 you are happier with maemo-mapper, on the Neo
with tangogps. You have more buttons on the N810 and a landscape screen,
whereas the Neo uses portrait-mode. tangogps was designed to be fast and
to be usable without hardware buttons.
Neo can use
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How about instead of worrying about the way it's encoded we just write it
January
1, 2008. I think that's pretty much standard. People can get confused
about
2008-07-06 as much as they can 06-07-2008.
No, they cannot. That is always, always year-month-day. It is an
Regards,
Daniel *The code never lies* Willmann
It does, when marketing names get changed after devs have started
coding. This does happen sometimes :-)
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Michael Shiloh wrote:
I forgot to mention that the Southern California Linux Expo interviewed
me as a warm-up to the show this weekend:
http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/blog/2008/02/03/interview-with-michael-shiloh-of-openmoko/
You've been wikified (openmoko.org's press page, that is).
Good
Michael Schmidt wrote:
Hi
we need a release of Neo or any other mobile open phone (hardware
setting) now
otherwise the market will overrun the hardware
Thanks, but I hope that isn't intended to be some kind of great new
insight :-)
I can assure you that people inside and outside the
Tom Cooksey wrote:
A friend just forwarded this on to me:
http://www.telecoms.com/itmgcontent/tcoms/news/articles/20017514053.html
Please, PLEASE tell me this is not true? Or at least it's the consumer version
that's
delayed?
Please please read the SECOND WORD of the headline.
Thanks... Just one thing: how is generated the UID data?
It seems something like:
UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, how is calculated what I called ${id}?
There is an official spec for the UUID format, or several variants of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uuid
Ian D
Andy Selby wrote:
I have a question:
It will be a long life cellphone? Or will it just be some fragile geek
toy to use with care?
Since you can install anything on it thanks to the openness of the
device, it will remain useful for as long as the device works, for
instance some people are
ramsesoriginal wrote:
I am of the idea that a navigation system would be THE killer-app for
the openmoko, and I personally know many persons that would also pay
extra money to have a navigator on a phone. We have various
possibilities: we could try to make some sort of deal with TomTom,
write
John Lee wrote:
Dear Community,
A decision has been made _today_ that Openmoko is going to support
Windows mobile. We, the distribution team, want to provide our
customers the maximum freedom in choosing whatever platform they want,
even the close source ones. We will make necessary
Ryan Prior wrote:
This really shows how little the OpenMoko community understands the
Neo. Why port Windows Mobile when we could be porting Windows 3.1?
Windows 3.1 is a lightweight OS which has excellent application
support from a broad and stable base of industry, and which has
successors
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen...
I got the following idea:
If you can't find your moko, you only have to send an SMS with a
special keyword/passphrase to your moko.
It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As many people, I guess, I sometime wonder if a certain person answering
a question on this mailing list or an other is trustful or not.
To exactly know who is who, I propose to make a list of members on the
wiki.
Cause I didn't found such a page, I created one (Sorry
Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I
get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
innards and not the cosmetics.
In the days of Henry Ford, it made sense to say You can
No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the
box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone,
but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for
their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration
steve wrote:
Anybody can take a seam ripper to the old pouch and reverse engineer it.
Hmm. That's a problem, perhaps I should have people sign EULAs to prevent
pouch poaching.
Apparently the dog you see reflected in one of Michael's preliminary
photos did chew up one of the pouches sent in
Ryan Prior wrote:
A synopsis:
Lowell: Let's make this project community-driven.
Steve: Please talk to me about it privately.
WTF?
Perhaps you didn't read this part:
I'd rather take this offline with you, since the main focus here
[meaning, on this discussion list, at this time]
Hugo Mills wrote:
On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 08:21:27PM -0400, Lally Singh wrote:
Just out of curiosity, would maven be completely out of the question?
Yes.
Please, for the love of all that's holy, no.
I work with maven in my job. It's the most horrible misbegotten
misdesigned piece of
On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 05:55:43PM -0400, Ian Darwin wrote:
You completely misunderstood what I said. Storing the file name, URL
*and* its MD5 lets you be sure you are able to reproduce the build. And
What I meant to say here was: Storing the file name, URL
and the MD5 of the *source* tarball
- not being able to connect a VGA-over-USB
Sheesh. Stick a cheap USB 2.0 webcam on a stick, err, a tripod, above
your phone and run that onto your display or projector. As Rasterman
said, it's a phone.
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Seriously, If everyone put as much effort into development as they do into
bitching and whining this phone would be able to cure cancer by now.
+1
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Michael Shiloh wrote:
Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
Michael Shiloh writes:
Way off-topic, but the best alarm clock I've ever seen is one that
shoots a little flying disc out of the top when the alarm goes off.
You have to get out of bed, find the disc (perhaps this would
encourage my daughter to
Ian Darwin wrote:
Way off-topic, but the best alarm clock I've ever seen is one that
shoots a little flying disc out of the top when the alarm goes off.
You have to get out of bed, find the disc (perhaps this would
encourage my daughter to clean up her room before going to bed?),
and insert
them out.
Cheers
Ian Darwin
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cdce[1] is the ethernet -over-usb driver in FreeBSD. To test it, you
can do 'kldload if_cdce', then see the man page.
Last time I tested it, it worked without problems.
The cdce driver is also in OpenBSD (and presumably NetBSD); on Open at
least it is in the generic kernel so you
There ought to be a specialization of Dialer to be able to type your
voicemail password without having it echo, switchable dynamically.
Just an idea - my son was complaining that his cheap Nokia didn't have
such a feature, so I figured that OpenMoko should.
.
And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's
looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago!
Ian Darwin
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toolkits. All languages(*). It is
just as hackable as it was.
Make of it what you will shall be the whole of thy law.
Ian Darwin
* C and C++ and sh ship; many others available but you may have to opkg
install them.
For Java(tm) install Jalimo. Other languages available. Your language may vary
that.
-
If anybody knows the location of the files that QT contacts uses, or has
actually tried the QTopia Desktop with the new ASU image, please pipe
in! (Please don't guess, because you might cause somebody to waste a lot
of time, or lose data :-))
Thanks
Ian Darwin
liwei wrote:
On 一, 2008-05-19 at 16:27 -0700, Mike Montour wrote:
Ian Darwin wrote:
Thanks for posting your review. Perhaps you (or another Freerunner user)
can answer a few more questions:
How good is the audio quality when having a GSM voice conversation with
another person? Can
language flame war.
Thank you.
Ian Darwin (OP of the ASU Software impressions thread)
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/landscape was in the pre-ASU software; there is no
gui control to enable it yet in ASU, but E17 almost certainly
supports it, so we can hope that the apps will again support it.
Ian Darwin
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On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 08:05:13PM +0200, Bastian Muck wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Ian Darwin schrieb:
| I'd still very much like to see a way to turn it off, so it works the
| same for letters as for numbers. It's annoying 90% of the time because
| most
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 04:45:14AM +1000, Lorn Potter wrote:
If anybody knows the location of the files that QT contacts uses, or has
actually tried the QTopia Desktop with the new ASU image, please pipe
in! (Please don't guess, because you might cause somebody to waste a lot
of time,
Michael Shiloh wrote:
Lorn Potter wrote:
Qtopia contacts are stored in the sqlite database.
Thanks for the info Lorn. Can you tell where the sqlite database is
stored or is that not Qtopia determined?
This would seem to be four sqlite databases:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cd /
[EMAIL
Lorn Potter wrote:
On Thursday 22 May 2008 08:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Qtopia contacts are stored in the sqlite database.
Thanks for the info Lorn. Can you tell where the sqlite database is
stored or is that not Qtopia determined?
The users database is
I won't say it was easy or pretty, but I did it.
The only two things I really need the Blackberry for (apart from stable
calling :-)) are the password safe (which I have written a replacement
for, and others exist), and the alarm clock (might have to put a new
fresh battery in my alarm
Once today, while my FreeRunner was plugged in on USB, I tapped the
screen to wake it up, and it came up, but all the pixels in text were
jiggly, as though the screen were being refreshed at the wrong rate.
When I called up the qwerty keyboard, it appeared quite scrambled.
Sadly I didn't have a
, so I had one big alphabetical
list.
Should this kind of thing go to the QTopia mailing list or forums, or
should we still post general QTopia issues found under OM to this list?
Thanks
Ian Darwin
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Uncle Kridley wrote:
I'm totally dependent on gnukeyring on my Treo, so this is good news.
I'd been hoping that somebody with some GUI coding experience would
build one on Openmoko, since I've never written a (non-web) GUI program.
Are you going to release your password safe? What are the
simply must have (and this is my feature request) the ability to
send letters one at a time to the application.
Cheers
Ian Darwin
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If anybody feels the need to use a screen protector, I just tried one
called NavProtector that I got for a few bucks on eBay, and it fits
nicely (cut about 1mm shorter than the screen, so check before you
stick! and maybe center it).
The touch screen still works! :-)
Ian Darwin
The freerunner CPU is ARM920T, can't support android system img, I
think it can update to ARM926EJ-S ?
The Neo is not a desktop computer, so I really doubt that the CPU is
socketed :-) So unless you're good at soldering SMT components, I think
you can forget the CPU upgrade (even if you are,
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