Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Tilman Baumann wrote: > Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: >> Am Friday 12 September 2008 23:53:40 schrieb Tilman Baumann: >>> Am 12.09.2008 um 22:43 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer: >>> Now some Bugs: >>> Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard. >> Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown >> here, >> holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check >> whether >> you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config. > I have that milestone3 release from i think the day before > yesterday. > (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially) Right, that one contained the bug :/ > Thanks, i just saw the difference 20080910 vs 20080911 > > I just hope i will have soon the money for a freerunner (more space) or > the distros are getting smaller (wishful thinking). > The current situation is useless with a gta01. Odd, now i can suspend quite easy. But i can't get it to shutdown. I pressed the button for up to ca 15 sec and it just suspends. :( -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Hello Dale. To answer your question : The equivalent of source in python is execfile(filename). That should work the way you said. charlie/guillaume On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 15:07 +1000, Dale Maggee wrote: > One more (dumb?) question: > > since I'd rather keep my zhone updated, I was thinking I could create > a > file named ~/addressbook.py, which contains: > > self.cbPhonebookReply( [ > (1, u'Kirk', '+023224433'), > (2, u'Spock', '+034433463'), > (3, u'McCoy', '+013244344'), > (4, u'Scott', '+013244344'), > (5, u'Uhura', '+013244344'), > (6, u'Sulu', '+013244344'), > (7, u'Chekov', '+456663443'), > ] ) > > and then do the python equivalent of "source ~/addressbook.py" at > line > 742. This means that I could easily keep my zhone updated and just > make > a one-line change when it gets updated... but is there / what is a > python equivalent of "source"? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: >> Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: >> >>> When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply >>> hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if >>> it's not so dynamic :P >>> >>> >>> >> great Idea! my contacts don't change often, so that would work as an >> interim method! :D >> >> any chance you could tell me what file(s) I need to modify, and how to >> modify it (i.e example code, I don't [yet] speak python)? >> > > I'm not using Zhone since some weeks, however I simply edited the file > in /usr/bin/zhone (so hold updates! :P) adding my phonebook as shown in > the file comments. > An example is written in the git zhone file [1] too at line 742. > > > [1] http://tinyurl.com/6r85q9 > > Great! Thank you very much! One more (dumb?) question: since I'd rather keep my zhone updated, I was thinking I could create a file named ~/addressbook.py, which contains: self.cbPhonebookReply( [ (1, u'Kirk', '+023224433'), (2, u'Spock', '+034433463'), (3, u'McCoy', '+013244344'), (4, u'Scott', '+013244344'), (5, u'Uhura', '+013244344'), (6, u'Sulu', '+013244344'), (7, u'Chekov', '+456663443'), ] ) and then do the python equivalent of "source ~/addressbook.py" at line 742. This means that I could easily keep my zhone updated and just make a one-line change when it gets updated... but is there / what is a python equivalent of "source"? Thanks! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
> Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: >> When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply >> hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if >> it's not so dynamic :P >> >> > > great Idea! my contacts don't change often, so that would work as an > interim method! :D > > any chance you could tell me what file(s) I need to modify, and how to > modify it (i.e example code, I don't [yet] speak python)? I'm not using Zhone since some weeks, however I simply edited the file in /usr/bin/zhone (so hold updates! :P) adding my phonebook as shown in the file comments. An example is written in the git zhone file [1] too at line 742. [1] http://tinyurl.com/6r85q9 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Fredrik Wendt wrote: > Hi. > > fre 2008-09-12 klockan 12:24 +0200 skrev Tilman Baumann: > >> I found the new fso milestone and tried it out on my Neo 1973. >> Here is what i think of it. >> [...] >> And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, >> efl apps. >> We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should >> look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy. >> I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some experimenting >> first... >> > > I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart > from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put > there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's > simply beautiful. > > / Fredrik > As I said before, I agree that it's gorgeous. Any tips on changing the background? you're gonna miss it? where's it going? :O -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > >> the only problem I have with zhone is missing features, such as an >> internal PIM database - at present it only uses contacts stored in the >> sim card. Also the fact that you can only send sms's to existing >> contacts , and can't just type in a phone number. If it wasn't for these >> couple of things I'd be happy to use FSO3 as my primary distribution. >> > > When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply > hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if > it's not so dynamic :P > > great Idea! my contacts don't change often, so that would work as an interim method! :D any chance you could tell me what file(s) I need to modify, and how to modify it (i.e example code, I don't [yet] speak python)? Thanks! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Am Friday 12 September 2008 23:53:40 schrieb Tilman Baumann: > Am 12.09.2008 um 22:43 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer: > Now some Bugs: > Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard. > >>> > >>> Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown > >>> here, > >>> holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check > >>> whether > >>> you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config. > >> > >> I have that milestone3 release from i think the day before > >> yesterday. > >> (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially) > > > > Right, that one contained the bug :/ > > Can i opkg upgrade one packet stright away? Yes. > Or are there new images > available? Yes. -- :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Hi, I just want to agree 100%. Zhone is very beautiful and i like its simplicity. //danielh 2008/9/12 Fredrik Wendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi. > > fre 2008-09-12 klockan 12:24 +0200 skrev Tilman Baumann: >> I found the new fso milestone and tried it out on my Neo 1973. >> Here is what i think of it. >> [...] >> And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, >> efl apps. >> We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should >> look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy. >> I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some experimenting >> first... > > I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart > from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put > there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's > simply beautiful. > > / Fredrik > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Fredrik Wendt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi. > > I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart > from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put > there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's > simply beautiful. > > / Fredrik +1 clare ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Hi. fre 2008-09-12 klockan 12:24 +0200 skrev Tilman Baumann: > I found the new fso milestone and tried it out on my Neo 1973. > Here is what i think of it. > [...] > And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, > efl apps. > We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should > look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy. > I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some experimenting > first... I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's simply beautiful. / Fredrik signature.asc Description: Detta är en digitalt signerad meddelandedel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Am 12.09.2008 um 22:43 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer: Now some Bugs: Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard. >>> >>> Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown >>> here, >>> holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check >>> whether >>> you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config. >> I have that milestone3 release from i think the day before >> yesterday. >> (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially) > > Right, that one contained the bug :/ Can i opkg upgrade one packet stright away? Or are there new images available? > > >> I did not upgrade because i fear this will overflow my flash again >> and trash the whole install. (gta01 ROM is clearly too small *g*) >> And opkg handles this not very gracefully. :-/ >>> >>> Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages. >>> >>> Daniel? >> >> Additional info. I believe it was sent by a Nokia N90. >> If that helps... > > Please contact Daniel to give him the SMS as PDU, so he can look into > why decoding it fails. Daniel, i hope you read the list. ;) How can i 'extract' the messages? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Am Freitag, den 12.09.2008, 21:52 +0200 schrieb Tilman Baumann: > Am 12.09.2008 um 19:11 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer: > > > Thanks for the review, I agree with almost all your points (except > > some > > Zhone things, but UI is always subjective -- and it's not at all the > > point of the fso release as you know.) > > Hehe, yea i have seen. > Seems difficult to agree on a UI. Some think less is better, some > think more... *nod* > >> Now some Bugs: > >> Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard. > > > > Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown > > here, > > holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check whether > > you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config. > I have that milestone3 release from i think the day before yesterday. > (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially) Right, that one contained the bug :/ > I did not upgrade because i fear this will overflow my flash again > and trash the whole install. (gta01 ROM is clearly too small *g*) > And opkg handles this not very gracefully. :-/ > > > > > >> Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not > >> concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages. > > > > Daniel? > > Additional info. I believe it was sent by a Nokia N90. > If that helps... Please contact Daniel to give him the SMS as PDU, so he can look into why decoding it fails. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Am 12.09.2008 um 19:11 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer: > Thanks for the review, I agree with almost all your points (except > some > Zhone things, but UI is always subjective -- and it's not at all the > point of the fso release as you know.) Hehe, yea i have seen. Seems difficult to agree on a UI. Some think less is better, some think more... > > >> Now some Bugs: >> Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard. > > Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown > here, > holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check whether > you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config. I have that milestone3 release from i think the day before yesterday. (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially) I did not upgrade because i fear this will overflow my flash again and trash the whole install. (gta01 ROM is clearly too small *g*) And opkg handles this not very gracefully. :-/ > > >> Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not >> concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages. > > Daniel? Additional info. I believe it was sent by a Nokia N90. If that helps... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Thanks for the review, I agree with almost all your points (except some Zhone things, but UI is always subjective -- and it's not at all the point of the fso release as you know.) > Now some Bugs: > Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard. Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown here, holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check whether you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config. > Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not > concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages. Daniel? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Dale Maggee wrote: > the only problem I have with zhone is missing features, such as an > internal PIM database - at present it only uses contacts stored in the > sim card. Also the fact that you can only send sms's to existing > contacts , and can't just type in a phone number. If it wasn't for these > couple of things I'd be happy to use FSO3 as my primary distribution. When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if it's not so dynamic :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Guillaume Chereau wrote: > Hello Tilman. I will just comment on the tichy part of your email, since > I am the main author. > > On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 12:24 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote: >> I like the Tichy concept of having pythons apps running as plugins in >> one python runtime. >> I always expected it to be something like a app launcher that >> executes >> python modules rather than calling stand allonw apps. > But it is exactly what it does. > I think you misunderstood tichy. But still I want to defend my approach > (that you seem to recommend so I am confused). > Tichy is a python app. I can't afford to start a new python interpreter > every time we open an application. I don't want to have too many python > interpreters running at the same time either. My solution is to use a > cooperative event based system for all the basics applications (dialer, > messages, etc) They all run in the same interpreter, and share the same > mainloop. That is what i refer to tichy as a "python applets manager". Yea, the concept is great for me it was more a look and feel mishap. >> Combining all apps into one screen does >> not help, we have window management. > Do you mean we should use one X window per applet in tichy ? Well that > is possible. In fact I have a backend for gtk+ and etk/evas (still > experimental). Both of them use one window per applet. Well, you just have defended Tichy well. I was just not happy with that everything happens in one window, and only one applet at the time approach. The gui is kludgy at the time. But as it is work in progress i have no problem seeing that change. > So here is how it works : > When you write an application for tichy, you use as few gui objects as > possible. Instead, you define 'Items' with properties and possible > actions. > Then tichy will request for a plugin that offers the 'Design' service > and ask this plugin to create the user interface for the application. > the design plugin is free to create any interface, as long as it shows > the proper items and provides a way to trigger the proper actions on > those items (not unlike edje works) > That is why I can create backends for almost any graphic library you can > imagine, without changing the code of the applications. Edje scrips come to my mind. :) Sounds great. >> The all in one concept is just wrong in my eyes. Great idea, but done >> wrong. > The concept is wrong or the idea is great but done wrong ? > > For me the all in one concept is important, at least for all the basics > phone applications. There is just too much communication between them. > It is not only a matter of sharing data (the framework is there for > this), but also being able to lauch one app from an other, and to share > the screen space in a clever way. Also the time to launch an external > application is too slow. Yes and now. The experience with the standallone gtk apps from 20082 was not too bad. The only app that was a bit critical was the dialer. I'm not sure what works better. Native single apps or python applets. Native would at least be more interoperable. And a applet like way would work too for native code... >> And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, >> efl apps. >> We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should >> look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy. >> I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some >> experimenting >> first... >> Is there already some movement into finding the new way to interact >> with >> the UI? > Well, what about the idea I talked about : You define a set of minimal > necessary information needed to construct the gui for many kinds of > applications (most of the time an application is just trying to show > some objects and let the user trigger actions on it). Then you use a > plugin to actually construct the gui. > > I guess Raster was a visionary on this idea. In fact he is the one who > gave me this idea once on irc, the next week I started implementing it > in tichy :P > But even the applications we have that do use edge don't do it the > perfect optimal way. If your application's code use -let's say- a > scrollbox, then you are already deciding that you want to show your > items in a scrolled view, so what if the user want to show them in a > table, or in a fancy 3d view like we start to see on a few closed source > mobile phone ? Then you have to modify the application code. > In tichy you would first create a list of items, and then ask the design > service to create a view of that list. That view may be a scrollbox, but > it may as well be anything else. You can actually play with this in > tichy : application conf->design>grid/default/wheel The right way. Besides, i would say the app should decide what category of look it wants and the user (framework) how it really looks. I see some basic app schemes. Tabs, scroll-lists, hirarchical lists (scrollable) (like the tree columns finder
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Hello Tilman. I will just comment on the tichy part of your email, since I am the main author. On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 12:24 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote: > I like the Tichy concept of having pythons apps running as plugins in > one python runtime. > I always expected it to be something like a app launcher that > executes > python modules rather than calling stand allonw apps. But it is exactly what it does. I think you misunderstood tichy. But still I want to defend my approach (that you seem to recommend so I am confused). Tichy is a python app. I can't afford to start a new python interpreter every time we open an application. I don't want to have too many python interpreters running at the same time either. My solution is to use a cooperative event based system for all the basics applications (dialer, messages, etc) They all run in the same interpreter, and share the same mainloop. That is what i refer to tichy as a "python applets manager". > But tichy as it is is useless. I agree with you in the sense that if tichy would only call stand alone app, it would be useless. > Combining all apps into one screen does > not help, we have window management. Do you mean we should use one X window per applet in tichy ? Well that is possible. In fact I have a backend for gtk+ and etk/evas (still experimental). Both of them use one window per applet. > The GUI design does not strike me as good either. I can unfortunately only agree on this :(. My fault. I am not an expert in GUI design (I have a hard time with it cause things that look good on the desktop don't on a small screen.) When I started tichy I tried to use gtk+, but then gave up and used my own SDL based gui system (we talk about the guy who liked to write video games here :-) ). Then I though about all the possible choices of graphics backend -and how critical this choice could be- and I realize the only way to be sure not to make a bad decision, is not to choose one at all. So here is how it works : When you write an application for tichy, you use as few gui objects as possible. Instead, you define 'Items' with properties and possible actions. Then tichy will request for a plugin that offers the 'Design' service and ask this plugin to create the user interface for the application. the design plugin is free to create any interface, as long as it shows the proper items and provides a way to trigger the proper actions on those items (not unlike edje works) That is why I can create backends for almost any graphic library you can imagine, without changing the code of the applications. > The all in one concept is just wrong in my eyes. Great idea, but done > wrong. The concept is wrong or the idea is great but done wrong ? For me the all in one concept is important, at least for all the basics phone applications. There is just too much communication between them. It is not only a matter of sharing data (the framework is there for this), but also being able to lauch one app from an other, and to share the screen space in a clever way. Also the time to launch an external application is too slow. > I don't want to have my phone work nearly as like tichy works. > > I like to have some native apps like the GTK PIM apps back. > They where really well made, usefull and useable. > > I like to have a home screen on the desktop like the GTK home app. > This was really a great concept. i like to see that come back. > I think this would be a easy job for a desklet... I agree with you. Beside it is very simple to do. > > Especially important would be a dialer app that starts quickly. > (maybe > living in a applet all the time) > The GTK dialer would be a great template. ;-) > > And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, > efl apps. > We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should > look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy. > I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some > experimenting > first... > Is there already some movement into finding the new way to interact > with > the UI? Well, what about the idea I talked about : You define a set of minimal necessary information needed to construct the gui for many kinds of applications (most of the time an application is just trying to show some objects and let the user trigger actions on it). Then you use a plugin to actually construct the gui. I guess Raster was a visionary on this idea. In fact he is the one who gave me this idea once on irc, the next week I started implementing it in tichy :P But even the applications we have that do use edge don't do it the perfect optimal way. If your application's code use -let's say- a scrollbox, then you are already deciding that you want to show your items in a scrolled view, so what if the user want to show them in a table, or in a fancy 3d view like we start to see on a few closed source mobile phone ? Then you have to modify the application code. In tichy you would first cr
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Tilman Baumann wrote: > Zhone works well, but it's hideous. The integrated apps approach does > not work any more in a window managed environment. And the UI is clunky. > strange, I think that zhone is *gorgeous*, and I don't find it clunky at all! IMHO it's *very* pretty, and runs nicely - in terms of speed I think it's almost on par with qtopia - it's certainly much faster and less clunky than 2008.8. If I could just figure out how to change zhone's wallpaper... the only problem I have with zhone is missing features, such as an internal PIM database - at present it only uses contacts stored in the sim card. Also the fact that you can only send sms's to existing contacts , and can't just type in a phone number. If it wasn't for these couple of things I'd be happy to use FSO3 as my primary distribution. (yes, I know, be patient, zhone is only a 'test gui', and this stuff is coming...) On the whole though I think it's great! -Dale ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)
Hi, Am Freitag, den 12.09.2008, 12:24 +0200 schrieb Tilman Baumann: > Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not > concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages. It does show umlauts correclty here (running Milestone3 on Debian, but I don’t think we have changed anything relevant). But those SMS were received with the SIM card plugged into a Siemens S35, maybe that helps. Greetings, Joachim -- Joachim "nomeata" Breitner Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
