Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
> Romania238K > Greece 132K > Latvia 65K > Hong Kong1K > Macau .025K > > All numbers are square kilometers, rounded up, total 436.025K. > > A little bigger than California and on average much denser. > > If all I had to do was give everyone in California broadband and > I had government funding they'd all be smoking along on GigE. > > If you want me to hook up a formerly second world country like, > say Georgia, that's about the size of West Virginia, well it was a > couple of weeks ago, I can do that too. Tsk, tsk Eric. Never let inconvenient things like facts get in the way of a hysterical inferiority complex by proxy. We need our national pride! Who cares about gold medals, we need high(er)-speed internet! Now pipe down and belly up to the tax-filled trough like a good, little megacorp. Maybe you need some of the good 'ol American gumption of T. Bone Pickens. Now, there's a patriot who knows how to stick it to the little guy while he laughs all the way to the bank and back. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014238.php * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
> Inertia is a big one. Many IT "pros" don't keep up with technology or > don't understand the reasons for using a particular technology. They > pick RAID because it is "buzzword compliant." We pros use it because of buzzwords like "mature" and "reliable" and "inexpensive." We use it for well documented reasons. Non-practitioning hecklers in the back row like to shout out rude things to make it sound like they know more than the people in the trenches. > Many still use tape for the same reason. I tried to replace my obsolete LTO-1 autoloader with swappable, archival hard drives that could be taken offsite as easily as tape and would function as simply as tape. I would to have at least tripled my costs to meet the capacity and ease of use of tape. I passed and got an LTO-3 autoloader, which backs up nearly 3 TB of data every week. Works like a charm, fire and forget bullet-proof; very, very fast and scalable. > >http://feedblog.org/2007/06/08/yes-jeremy-raid-really-is-dying/ > > Interesting, but this blog is discussing operations the size of Google > and this blog points out that even Google does not use RAID. You go right ahead and keep playing Russian roulette with your data and systems on non-fault-tolerant systems. Don't come crying to me when a server goes tits-up and your users are screaming bloody murder because they are productive as rocks. RAID has saved my bacon more times than I can count (and the users never even knew we lost a drive). I've lost a RAID controller once, on an old server that should have been retired a year earlier. Once. And yes, it was catastrophic. We have a server with ADP payroll apps and data on it. We used ADP for only one year, but by law I have to maintain the payroll data on it for another 6 years and nobody wants to *touch* ADP data, let alone try and convert it. One of the drives in RAID 1 array failed the other day. Replacing it cost me nothing. Rebuilding the server and the applications would have cost a small fortune and many man hours, since we have no support contract with ADP any longer ($$$). But, you must be onto something, since, well, if the one company with its tens of thousands of employees and the single largest market value on the planet can do things differently on such a ginormous scale, then we all should be able to do it, right? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
So what does company with database access needs and 25 users do to keep as much up time as possible? The blog seems to be splitting hairs, instead of hardware RAID on one machine, google seems to be employing hardware RAID across multiple machines. Just because they aren't using specifically expensive hardware RAID controllers, the writer admits google still uses software RAID. How best to keep not only your data backed up, but also keep maximum uptime. Why isn't the answer a server box using RAID? Perhaps none of us have been specific enough. In my posts I never meant *just* hardware or *just* software RAID, I suggested a RAID solution that could be either. So to the list members who seem against RAID, what do you use for my example at the start of my msg? On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Inertia is a big one. Many IT "pros" don't keep up with technology or > don't understand the reasons for using a particular technology. They pick > RAID because it is "buzzword compliant." Many still use tape for the same > reason. Or HP printers. > > > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
ZDNet Australia has the US listed in 2008 as 23rd behind Latvia, Greece, Hong Kong, Romania, Macau. Pretty pathetic. Romania238K Greece 132K Latvia 65K Hong Kong1K Macau .025K All numbers are square kilometers, rounded up, total 436.025K. A little bigger than California and on average much denser. If all I had to do was give everyone in California broadband and I had government funding they'd all be smoking along on GigE. If you want me to hook up a formerly second world country like, say Georgia, that's about the size of West Virginia, well it was a couple of weeks ago, I can do that too. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
What's going on at Ars Technica? After noting that at current rates of increase it will take 100 years for the US to catch up with Japan's current level of service, Ars Technica then gos on to disparage the report... The rates reported for Asia are roughly what we term DS3 (T3) level speeds. There's a handy chart at the end of this article: http://www.speedguide.net/read_articles.php?id=115 I think the CWA did a great job with the data collection but not necessarily the data interpretation. "Median" is a slippery statistic at best, and I believe we can't assume that the other countries cited aren't including governmental and large institutional users in their speed reports. CWA almost certainly is not. My team mostly provisions optical carrier applications and believe me when I say there's no shortage of demand at the Gbps level for these products. I have the technology to do it, and if you are willing to cover my costs I will gladly do it. But I choose not to operate at a loss. I am all ready putting my butt on the line with FiOS, I expect to retire before I see positive ROI on that venture, but if I build it they will come. I get no government handouts to do this, I am a businessman first and I am willing to take calculated risks but I will not give away the store because a country the size of Montana (Japan) or Virginia (ROK) can deploy faster--even if they really can. They have, you see, a denser infrastructure than I do. As usual, my opinion only. However, feel free to continue to hold my feet to the fire on this issue, my compamy is going balls to the wall on this. 100 years, by the way, is pure unadulterated ignorance on Ars Technica's part. The person who wrote the article likely does not know what they are talkong about... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
On Aug 15, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Report: US falling further behind on broadband speeds, reach By John Timmer | Published: August 14, 2008 - 08:00PM CT What's going on at Ars Technica? After noting that at current rates of increase it will take 100 years for the US to catch up with Japan's current level of service, Ars Technica then gos on to disparage the report. They sort of disparaged the report by making sure that the reader understood that there could be some bias involved, but then admitted that their own evaluations basically supported the conclusions of the communications workers. In fact, it is quite well known that we have been getting the butt end of the broadband deal for a long time. Ars Technica suggests that the study is biased because the data was collected by communication workers (Instead of who? Cloistered nuns?) Ars Technica then claims that people are "simply uninterested" in getting better broadband. (Perhaps they got that from John McCain?) Very, very odd for a tech zine. I think that they may mean that people are "simply uninterested" in getting better broadband because the public assumes that anything that is significantly better than what is currently available will be too costly to afford. Without more and better competition, that is absolutely true. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
> Report: US falling further behind on broadband speeds, reach By John > Timmer | Published: August 14, 2008 - 08:00PM CT > > The latest measure of the state of the US broadband market is now > available and, like many other takes on the subject, the picture it > paints is a bit depressing. The report puts the US in 15th place when > it comes to national broadband speeds, and indicates that > improvements are coming very slowly. > > Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6fmvcx My friend sent me an email from a free WiFi hotspot in Paris yesterday, with his iPhone. The city is covered with free public hotspots. Broadband is cheap compared to the US. €29,90 per month for 8Mbps Internet and phone. Add €10 for TV. I'd be happy to pay that here for 8Mbps service, which I think was around €20-25/mo for Internet alone. ZDNet Australia has the US listed in 2008 as 23rd behind Latvia, Greece, Hong Kong, Romania, Macau. Pretty pathetic. Most of the countries ahead of the US don't have fiber optic networks either. The high speeds are on copper. Higher speeds can be found on fiber, but it's cheaper to install more switches in some cases than to install an entire fiber network. Americans are such sheeple. They don't demand better, more affordable service; they just pay whatever the providers tell them to pay. Pretty pathetic. I got a phone call from Comcast yesterday asking if I wanted to get fast broadband. I told her to call me when I could get 20Mb service for $30, and did they have that yet. She hung up. Didn't even want to talk. Shame on her. I think I might sell my stock. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
>Multiple reasons. Inertia is one of them... Inertia is a big one. Many IT "pros" don't keep up with technology or don't understand the reasons for using a particular technology. They pick RAID because it is "buzzword compliant." Many still use tape for the same reason. Or HP printers. >http://feedblog.org/2007/06/08/yes-jeremy-raid-really-is-dying/ Interesting, but this blog is discussing operations the size of Google and this blog points out that even Google does not use RAID. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
>1.) Many folks just don't know what is available out there in other >countries. And the carriers want to make sure we never find out. In China they call it the "Great Firewall" in the US they call it "traffic shaping." * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
>There are more failure points in a RAID array, and more catastrophic failure >conditions. A RAID card is more likely to fail than a single hard drive >(well, shorter MTBF). It is always the case that the more components you >have in a system, the higher the chance of any one of them failing. Thanks to everyone who spoke for me. You are right on the mark. There is also the problem of recovering a drive that has soft errors. None of the major disk recovery programs will be of any help on a drive that was running under RAID. And you may run into trouble trying to replace a RAID card (even harder if the RAID hardware is on the mobo). These cards are not sold in large numbers and are not interchangeable. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
Tom a lot of things drive that observation. 1.) Many folks just don't know what is available out there in other countries. 2.) A certain portion of the population is still confined to dial-up. (I have one in my congregation) the only other alternative is satellite and that is very expensive for what you get. 3.) Our population is aging! This means a number of folks just don't care about Internet speed (What is that thing anyway?) I have a portion of my churches membership that either are not connected or limited use of connection. 4.) Income is still one of the biggest barriers for high speed Internet. Low income usually means little or no Internet. These are just some of my own observations. (The south tends to be tech adverse) Stewart What's going on at Ars Technica? After noting that at current rates of increase it will take 100 years for the US to catch up with Japan's current level of service, Ars Technica then gos on to disparage the report. Ars Technica suggests that the study is biased because the data was collected by communication workers (Instead of who? Cloistered nuns?) Ars Technica then claims that people are "simply uninterested" in getting better broadband. (Perhaps they got that from John McCain?) Very, very odd for a tech zine. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
> at current rates of increase it will take 100 years > for the US to catch up with Japan's current level > of service I don't know about 100 years, but it *is* a massive job to dig up and replace all the Internet pipes. The one that comes into my house is still terra cotta, for God's sake. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Images imbedded in Eudora with Vista
>If you really want to have images and other html stuff loading in all >your email messages, you can change it in Special > Settings > Fonts >and Display: check boxes for "Display Graphics in messages" and >"Automatically download HTML graphics" But you open yourself to all sorts of baddies by doing so. Such issues have kept me using EMailer for all these years. At some point I will move on and will be sure to use a program that does not load or execute stuff by default. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
>Report: US falling further behind on broadband speeds, reach >By John Timmer | Published: August 14, 2008 - 08:00PM CT What's going on at Ars Technica? After noting that at current rates of increase it will take 100 years for the US to catch up with Japan's current level of service, Ars Technica then gos on to disparage the report. Ars Technica suggests that the study is biased because the data was collected by communication workers (Instead of who? Cloistered nuns?) Ars Technica then claims that people are "simply uninterested" in getting better broadband. (Perhaps they got that from John McCain?) Very, very odd for a tech zine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Registry Error
>But you are greatly mistaken about hard drives. I don't know what >fantasy land you come from where drives never fail and data on them is >never lost, but in the Real World many calamities occur that can cause >data loss. From esoteric things like solar particles switching a bit... I got a tin foil hat for my hard drive from the same place the sold me mine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Excel on Mapped Drive
Virus scanner that scans anything being downloaded from the network, but does not scan anything being loaded from a/the local hard drive? At 04:35 PM 8/15/2008, Jay Montero wrote: >I've got a bit of a puzzler with one user on a LAN for whom it takes 30 >seconds to open a particular Excel file on a mapped drive. If I copy it onto >her desktop, it opens in a flash. Her coworkers, with same PC specs have no >problem. This is a Windows/Novell network setup. Any ideas? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
Gaming performance is different then trying to protect data..completely. > Multiple reasons. Inertia is one of them. For instance, Maximum PC has > advocated RAID with super-fast disks for gaming performance. Then they did > a benchmark test within the last year or two and found that RAID didn't > really help as much as it used to. They still often use RAID in their high > end machines, but some of them admit that inertia is the main reason. > > Here is an interesting blog, and you can check the earlier postings as > well: > > http://feedblog.org/2007/06/08/yes-jeremy-raid-really-is-dying/ This part..maybe your terminology is confused..you say they get more realiability with 'redundant disk arrays then with RAID'. Just a point of order, RAID *is* redundant array of independant disks. > > > Today, places with modest disk usage requirements, like Google, get better > performance and reliability with redundant disk arrays than with RAID. > Google doesn't use hardware RAID at all, period. > > Which of these people are right about RAID today? You decide. Some people > say RAID is still useful for now and for the next three years or so. > Others > say it lost to other technologies a year or two back. > > -- > John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Excel on Mapped Drive
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Jay Montero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've got a bit of a puzzler with one user on a LAN for whom it takes 30 > seconds to open a particular Excel file on a mapped drive. If I copy it > onto her desktop, it opens in a flash. Her coworkers, with same PC specs > have no problem. This is a Windows/Novell network setup. Any ideas? > I had a problem with Windows and an often-accessed network share. Windows had cached information (you can see this in Explorer when you go to "My Network Places" and it shows you recently or often accessed network shares) that got corrupted. I would unmap the drive and reboot, then remap and try again. If more drastic action is needed, you will have to search through the Registry and remove all references to the shared drive, like recently accessed documents, my network places, etc. Then reboot and try again. Of course, it could be something completely different. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 3:38 PM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So this being true...why do companies rely on RAID for keeping data safe? > Multiple reasons. Inertia is one of them. For instance, Maximum PC has advocated RAID with super-fast disks for gaming performance. Then they did a benchmark test within the last year or two and found that RAID didn't really help as much as it used to. They still often use RAID in their high end machines, but some of them admit that inertia is the main reason. Here is an interesting blog, and you can check the earlier postings as well: http://feedblog.org/2007/06/08/yes-jeremy-raid-really-is-dying/ Today, places with modest disk usage requirements, like Google, get better performance and reliability with redundant disk arrays than with RAID. Google doesn't use hardware RAID at all, period. Which of these people are right about RAID today? You decide. Some people say RAID is still useful for now and for the next three years or so. Others say it lost to other technologies a year or two back. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
Is the true for the motherboard based RAID, as well? I had not heard that- so the SATA drive RAID's are supposed to be the way to go. Eschew Obfuscation This is a reply from: Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A. Financial, Managerial, and Technical Services for the Professional, Non-Profit, and the Entrepreneurial Organization 703.548.1343 voice 703.783.1340 fax >From thinking to doing, from sales to profits, from tax to investments- we are YOUR adjuvancy -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John DeCarlo Sent: 08/15/2008 3:18 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:46 PM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes but the logic behind the statement isn't that RAID can have problems > but > that all RAID is less realiable then just single HD's. Which is > ridiculous. > No, the logic is that relying on a single hard drive is, for most situations, less likely to result in data loss than relying on a RAID array. There are more failure points in a RAID array, and more catastrophic failure conditions. A RAID card is more likely to fail than a single hard drive (well, shorter MTBF). It is always the case that the more components you have in a system, the higher the chance of any one of them failing. Really, the main point is that for most people, RAID is more likely to result in data loss. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Excel on Mapped Drive
I've got a bit of a puzzler with one user on a LAN for whom it takes 30 seconds to open a particular Excel file on a mapped drive. If I copy it onto her desktop, it opens in a flash. Her coworkers, with same PC specs have no problem. This is a Windows/Novell network setup. Any ideas? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
So this being true...why do companies rely on RAID for keeping data safe? On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 12:18 PM, John DeCarlo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:46 PM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes but the logic behind the statement isn't that RAID can have problems > > but > > that all RAID is less realiable then just single HD's. Which is > > ridiculous. > > > > No, the logic is that relying on a single hard drive is, for most > situations, less likely to result in data loss than relying on a RAID > array. > > There are more failure points in a RAID array, and more catastrophic > failure > conditions. A RAID card is more likely to fail than a single hard drive > (well, shorter MTBF). It is always the case that the more components you > have in a system, the higher the chance of any one of them failing. > > Really, the main point is that for most people, RAID is more likely to > result in data loss. > > > -- > John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 1:46 PM, mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes but the logic behind the statement isn't that RAID can have problems > but > that all RAID is less realiable then just single HD's. Which is > ridiculous. > No, the logic is that relying on a single hard drive is, for most situations, less likely to result in data loss than relying on a RAID array. There are more failure points in a RAID array, and more catastrophic failure conditions. A RAID card is more likely to fail than a single hard drive (well, shorter MTBF). It is always the case that the more components you have in a system, the higher the chance of any one of them failing. Really, the main point is that for most people, RAID is more likely to result in data loss. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Registry Error
Tony,
First you say not to rely on data being on your hard disk. While you did
not use numbers, you said:
>Bytes on hard drives disappear all the time.
and
> just restore last night's image
You are implying that you can expect hard drive errors every day. Note:
you did not say that exactly.
You have to admit that Tom's response to "bytes on hard drives disappear all
the time" was pretty reasonable ("No, they don't").
You should both be able to agree that losing data on a hard drive is not
predictable, but shouldn't happen even once a year per hard drive - unless
there is a serious problem (lots of power spikes, hard drive hit end of life
and is failing, etc.).
Therefore, you can probably both agree that when a file gets messed up in
Windows, the odds of it being a hard drive failure (losing bytes on the
disk) is miniscule compared to the myriad other ways Windows can get messed
up.
--
John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own
*
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Re: [CGUYS] Frankenstein iPod
http://www.command-tab.com/2007/03/11/upgrading-ipod-hard-drives/ -Original Message- From: b_s-wilk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Frankenstein iPod My 20GB iPod's hard drive died. Since the Toshiba 40/60/80GB 1.8-inch drives are very close to the same dimensions, could the mobo in the old iPod handle a bigger drive? I have several dead or dying iPods, mostly due to abuse [dropped into water, held/swung by cable instead of in hand, left outside in weather too long, or given to me for dissection/examination after they died] and was considering combining the working parts into a Frankenstein iPod. All are long out of warranty. One is an HP iPod that the Apple Store genius was nice enough to diagnose for me. Otherwise, each dead iPod is worth $25 trade in, unless I can fix them myself without spending more than that. Thanks Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
Yes but the logic behind the statement isn't that RAID can have problems but that all RAID is less realiable then just single HD's. Which is ridiculous. Mike On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT CIV) <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > Not speaking for Tom, but RAID controllers can fault and the result can > be loss of some or all data. If more than one drive fails while another > is rebuilding, all data for that RAID set is lost. Power loss for RAID > can be a much bigger problem than for independent disk drives. There > are others, but those should be an indication. > > Thank you, > > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > I'm wondering how RAID can be less realiable then a 'modern' hard drive > when those same modern hard drives are used for the RAID? > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
That can be said for anything. Put a nut behind the wheel of just about anything and it's less realiable. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Type and how it is set up. > > There are multiple types of raid, and they can easily be messed up by > maladministration. (loose nut behind the wheel.) > > Stewart > > > At 12:08 PM 8/15/2008, you wrote: > >> I'm wondering how RAID can be less realiable then a 'modern' hard drive >> when >> those same modern hard drives are used for the RAID? >> > > Rev. Stewart A. Marshall > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org > Ozark, AL SL 82 > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
Disgraceful. Maybe with their surplus, we can get Iraq to pay for some upgrades. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Steve Rigby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From Ars Technica: > > Report: US falling further behind on broadband speeds, reach > By John Timmer | Published: August 14, 2008 - 08:00PM CT > > The latest measure of the state of the US broadband market is now available > and, like many other takes on the subject, the picture it paints is a bit > depressing. The report puts the US in 15th place when it comes to national > broadband speeds, and indicates that improvements are coming very slowly. > > Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6fmvcx * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Registry Error
You boot from something else, usually DVD or cdrom. If you go this route you may also want to partition your c: drive smaller (maybe 50gigs). This was important in olden days, but today's imaging apps are usually more flexible. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Richard P. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How would one restore to an earlier time when the system is not booting up > in the first place? > > Richard P. > >> >> If I got that error I would just restore last night's image. Take me >> about 15 minutes to restore my C drive to where it was at 7pm last >> night. All my apps and data on my D and M drives would still be fine. >> >> > >> >>My relative's Windows PC has come up this morning with a registry error >> >>(Windows XP could not start because the following file is missing or >> >>corrupt: \WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM) and the computer is >> recommending * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
Not speaking for Tom, but RAID controllers can fault and the result can be loss of some or all data. If more than one drive fails while another is rebuilding, all data for that RAID set is lost. Power loss for RAID can be a much bigger problem than for independent disk drives. There are others, but those should be an indication. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I'm wondering how RAID can be less realiable then a 'modern' hard drive when those same modern hard drives are used for the RAID? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
Type and how it is set up. There are multiple types of raid, and they can easily be messed up by maladministration. (loose nut behind the wheel.) Stewart At 12:08 PM 8/15/2008, you wrote: I'm wondering how RAID can be less realiable then a 'modern' hard drive when those same modern hard drives are used for the RAID? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
I'm wondering how RAID can be less realiable then a 'modern' hard drive when those same modern hard drives are used for the RAID? On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I avoid both tape and RAID. I consider them significantly less reliable > than a modern hard drive. Their time has passed. > > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] What we actually get for our money...
From Ars Technica: Report: US falling further behind on broadband speeds, reach By John Timmer | Published: August 14, 2008 - 08:00PM CT The latest measure of the state of the US broadband market is now available and, like many other takes on the subject, the picture it paints is a bit depressing. The report puts the US in 15th place when it comes to national broadband speeds, and indicates that improvements are coming very slowly. Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6fmvcx Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Images imbedded in Eudora with Vista
when i look in special(Eudora), all i see are filters, addresses, empty trash, compact mailbox and message plug in settings. none of these plugins seem to deal with fonts and display. i checked off what i thought to be the appropriate boxes in tools>options>viewing mail. jer At 12:29 AM 8/15/2008, you wrote: >At 9:45 AM -0400 8/14/08, gerald wrote: > >>when someone like circuit city,ecost, buy.com include images in their emails, >>i get the images. when my email friends send pictures that they have >>imbedded, i get the area marked off, and a small red "x" in the upper left >>hand corner of the box. >> >>eudoria 7.1.xxx , foxfire 3 and vista with latest upgrade sp3? on a plenty >>big enough machine. > >I consider this a good thing, but you may not. Eudora is an email application >that excels at text email (as email should be), and it is very cautious about >loading images and other html items. If you want to see the message in all its >HTML mail glory, just choose File > Open in Browser and the whole html >enchilada will open in your default web browser. > >If you really want to have images and other html stuff loading in all your >email messages, you can change it in Special > Settings > Fonts and Display: >check boxes for "Display Graphics in messages" and "Automatically download >HTML graphics" > >- John > > >* >** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** >** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** >* * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Registry Error
How would one restore to an earlier time when the system is not booting up in the first place? Richard P. > > If I got that error I would just restore last night's image. Take me > about 15 minutes to restore my C drive to where it was at 7pm last > night. All my apps and data on my D and M drives would still be fine. > > > > >>My relative's Windows PC has come up this morning with a registry error > >>(Windows XP could not start because the following file is missing or > >>corrupt: \WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM) and the computer is > recommending > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reminders [Was: (spam) Test] etc.
This takes some getting used to and is easy to forget about if you post infrequently. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We should remind folks who use GMail that they will not see their post to > the list until somebody replies. There is good logic to what Google does > and there is good logic to letting us turn such a feature off (but that > is not an option). > > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
I stay away from RAID for personal or small business uses. Tape, as long as the person doing the backups practices restoring from them, are still a nice way to get data backup off-site. (Backup is one thing; recovery is Everything!) Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I avoid both tape and RAID. I consider them significantly less reliable than a modern hard drive. Their time has passed. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Registry Error
Good point. If it's a mission critical system it should have fault tolerant RAIDs installed instead of relying on periodic images. But that's usually way too costly for most systems. But you are greatly mistaken about hard drives. I don't know what fantasy land you come from where drives never fail and data on them is never lost, but in the Real World many calamities occur that can cause data loss. From esoteric things like solar particles switching a bit to everyday dangers like disk sectors failing or humans deleting the files. Journaling file systems try their best to protect data, but they aren't perfect. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Tom Piwowar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know the answer, but in general this is a terrible way to > maintain a computer. It is simply restoring a computer to a prior state > and hoping that whatever caused the problem does not happen again. It > also destroys the last few hours of whatever on that computer. That could > itself have consequences. > >>Who knows what might have caused it? Bytes on hard drives disappear >>all the time. Don't ever rely on hard drives for long term storage. > > No they don't. If they do on yours you should get a new drive. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
>But as long as you are looking to add retrieval speed and continue the >tape bkup you referred to, and considering that hardware is relatively >cheap these days, a server with a SATA RAID controller card... I avoid both tape and RAID. I consider them significantly less reliable than a modern hard drive. Their time has passed. >There are no magic bullets in this backup game... only various choices >that have various consequences. Good point, but with 1TB drives going for $200 it is a lot easier today than it was a few years ago. Today the trade offs are milder. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
And don't forget that you need both onsite and offsite archives/backups. Terrible things happen rarely, but they are far less terrible if your have good offsite storage. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
>For simpler needs, 1.5 TB capacity disk drives are available. Might >make a nice middle layer between fast-access and archive/backup. Good point. For many organizations "archives" are a ready reference and accessed frequently. For others "archives" are mothballed projects that are rarely accessed. For the former a different kind of archive is called for. For rarely accessed archives the DVD solution is okay, but it is not good at all for more frequently accessed archives. The main problem is physically sorting through stacks of DVDs and the potential of losing a checked out DVD. Another problem with DVD archives is that people put the job off. They let work accumulate on their hard drives, sometimes for many months. This puts the archive at risk if work is lost before it can be archived. An online archive is more likely to get used. I typically set up both fast and slow access archives. Today's large and cheap hard drives make it very easy to keep lots of data online. Then periodically clone the online archive and put it in a safe place. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Registry Error
>If I got that error I would just restore last night's image. Take me >about 15 minutes to restore my C drive to where it was at 7pm last >night. All my apps and data on my D and M drives would still be fine. I don't know the answer, but in general this is a terrible way to maintain a computer. It is simply restoring a computer to a prior state and hoping that whatever caused the problem does not happen again. It also destroys the last few hours of whatever on that computer. That could itself have consequences. >Who knows what might have caused it? Bytes on hard drives disappear >all the time. Don't ever rely on hard drives for long term storage. No they don't. If they do on yours you should get a new drive. (Sorry, this won't do anything to cheer up Tony.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Reminders [Was: (spam) Test] etc.
>Up until this point, I didn't realize that Gmail won't show my posts >until someone replies to it (something I just do not understand, but that's >a subject for another day). We should remind folks who use GMail that they will not see their post to the list until somebody replies. There is good logic to what Google does and there is good logic to letting us turn such a feature off (but that is not an option). >Had I been able to post the original content through my Cox account, the >test would not have been necessary. But given that the Cox account keeps >getting bumped by the list, I had to start using a Gmail account. Also it is a good time to remind those of us who use Cox and Comcast that these providers commonly bounce our emails. I would advise everyone to get their email services elsewhere. There is no good reason to use a Cox or Comcast account. Who knows, you may have won a $1,000,000 lottery for real and had your notice blocked by these bozos. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] (no-spam) Test
>Or you might want to send a private message to a less hostile list member. Anything we can do to cheer up Tony? Maybe we can get him to unload his MS shares. After all that is going to be a downward spiral and sure to make him more morose. Maybe he should buy a tech toy? My first instinct is to suggest an iPod/iTouch/iPhone, but he would probably spit on that. Are there any good non-Apple tech toys out there? Maybe a Wii? Anything else? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] (no-spam) Test
>So what is the harm of a test message? Well it is August and that usually brings out a bumper crop of silly discussions. List traffic does decline because people go on vacation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DVD's vs. External hard drives for archiving
I would keep it simple, and not use RAID. Most people don't understand it; especially where the risks of data loss are. At the low end, the risks of data loss are high for those who do not know a LOT about RAID. Personally, assuming this is important data, I like serial SCSI, SAS. SAS disk drives are almost always enterprise-class drives (more reliable). I would add a SAS card and connect it to an external 1.5 TB SAS drive. I might add a cheaper SATA drive (SAS controllers can do both) for older stuff. I would still use the tape backup. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I agree... the fast online data backup/ access is expensive and the slow online storage reasonable and for now the "twain shan't meet." But as long as you are looking to add retrieval speed and continue the tape bkup you referred to, and considering that hardware is relatively cheap these days, a server with a SATA RAID controller card (3ware brand?) and some drive trays full of the appropriate number of 1.5 Terra byte disks would give you the real time retrieval of your data. With the controller card, you could run RAID 5 with 4 or more drives if you like so that your system could survive & auto rebuild a drive failure (not so uncommon with large SATA drives) but you wouldn't even need RAID to as long as you have the tape backup. The key is not to invest too much labor/ money in this type of system and with the redundant tape backup you don't have to. If you drop the tape backup however ... then you are into a whole different kettle of fish. You have to have fail safe server redundancy that includes offsite dataset storage... and that is technically complex, laborious and expensive to do yourself for a real time operation... and as was noted at the start ... with commercial online services it is either expensive or slow. But you might want to do a cost analysis. By the time all is calculated, you might find it as cheap and a lot easier to not create an additional local server bkup, drop the tape backup and just contract for a commercial fast retrieval online bkup service. It also allows you to keep things simple and to remain focused on your own biz, rather than IT support. There are no magic bullets in this backup game... only various choices that have various consequences. Time, money and labor are your factors in the decision and labor is really either time or money. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
