Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
When was the last time you were in Cuba, and does the US know about your visit? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 9:59 AM, John Emmerling wrote: Although it would be nice to cite a reference for the world's health statistics, I suspect that if Cuba looks good in any such listing, it is due to the Mussolini made the trains run on time principle. Cuban physicians and other health workers do as they are told. I doubt anyone in authority there is telling them to report anything that would jeopardize Cuba's high ranking in these statistics. Please don't misconstrue what I have just said as a defense of the U.S. system. It has its virtues, but compared to some others, it ranks poorly overall by most measures. Nevertheless, I think the discourse is best served when limited to countries with at least a smidgen of political freedom. Compared to Cuba, apartheid-era South Africa was a beacon of democracy. On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.net wrote: Then why are Cuban doctors fleeing to the US? See this article from the NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/health/04cuba.html?_r=1partner=rssemc=rsspagewanted=all phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Fred Holmesf...@his.com wrote: If you drive the drug companies out of business, then the government will have to manufacture current drugs and develop new ones. Will they do a better job of it? Unlikely! For what it is worth, Cuba has one of the best, if not the overall best health care system in the world. Check out the world's health statistics and see for yourself. Marcio can speak to this issue I am sure. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
And I thought this public option health care system was just going to cost us $. What was I thinking? If we pass the health care plan will we all have to convert to satanism as well? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Steve at Verizon wrote: My point is that for Cubans, they pay a very high price for their free medical care, and that is a totalitarian government, human rights abuse, no free press, jails full of political prisoners, required listening to 5 hour speeches by Fidel (before his illness). And even their mass production of doctors is not purely a humanitarian gesture; they are used as an export commodity. Witness the 100s of doctors sent to Venezuela in exchange for her oil. We are in agreement that many of the most talented, be they pitchers or doctors or architects (my sister's galfriend's ex-Cuban husband) prefer to be compensated accordingly. Thank god that there are some altruistic physicians (worldwide, not just Cuba), who forgo high salaries for religious or political reasons to support their communities, as they are needed there, but this should be a choice of the individual not the state. phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Steve at Verizonstevet...@verizon.net wrote: Then why are Cuban doctors fleeing to the US? See this article from the NYT. For the money, primarily. Also, for a higher overall standard of living or because they do not support the government there or they have relatives inthe U.S. Cuba has some of the best baseball teams and players as well, but just because they are some of the best does not mean that they will not try to leave for the United States where they can make a lot of money and live far higher on the hog, so to speak. Please do not attempt to make the case that because some Cuban doctors want to leave that island that it somehow implies that the Cuban medical system is some giant dysfunctional mess and a failure. Wealthy Americans routinely seek to move their assets offshore, out of the country, but that does not mean that the financial system of the United States is some abysmal failure. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Finally a breath of fresh air and common sense. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:38 AM, b_s-wilk wrote: I am also losing faith in Obama... he is not standing up for what he believes. He is afraid of big business. I understand, he is not independently wealthy like JFK. Marcio Let's all get a handle on this Mario, et al. You and others are losing faith in President Obama. Why? Because he may not be able to do in 9 months what FDR took over 4 years to do. It's too soon for a postmortem before a bill has even been finished, no matter what creeps like Glenn Beck and Charles Krauthammer say. Give Obama time to herd the Congress toward a better bill. He's waiting. Patience. Affordable health insurance for all could happen, maybe incrementally, although Medicare for all is best for the US, on a voluntary basis. We won't get single payer because the people spreading the lies about it [drug companies, insurance companies] are too successful in confusing people and have too much money to spread their propaganda. Corporate propaganda must be successful considering the people who want the government to keep hands off Medicare, not realizing it's a successful government program. It's the same kind of clueless people who go to Tea Party protests, not knowing that the original Boston Tea Party was the result of taxes being TOO LOW. We are the government. We shouldn't be afraid, just because some corporations want us to fear. Fear the corporate databases, not the government. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
She said we, she didn't say you. We aren't including you. So don't bother voting next election. It won't be counted. You're not included. Oh, we'll still be taking SS out of your paycheck. Probably LI as well, but you aren't part of our government. Wow, how freeing that must feel. A man of the world. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: We are the government. We shouldn't be afraid, just because some corporations want us to fear. Fear the corporate databases, not the government. Thanks for the larf, Betty. Good one! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
This is a terrible comparison. But if you must, the airline travel industry has also gone to hell. I don't know how much you fly, but it's miserable today as compared to 20 years ago. A couple of weeks ago Alaska airlines started charging for even my first checked bag. And they don't bother telling you this till you're at the counter. So go to the airport with cash in your pocket. The seating space on planes has decreased. No movies unless you pay for the headsets. And you get meals on a long flight if you pay for them. But all of this of course is if you are flying coach. First class is a different story, and the only thing I'd fly nowadays on a flight longer then 4 hours. But then again, you have to pay for it. Hmmm, coach healthcare and then first class healthcare if I'm willing to pay for it. What a concept. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: I'm behind on my email, but one problem is that anymore there are few actual insurance companies. The big ones keep buying the smaller ones to limit competition. Compare a list of airline companies from 1980, shortly after the airlines were deregulated, and compare that list to today. I think you'll see a significant difference in the list, not to mention the cost to the consumer to fly. I don't know why people think that insurance companies, when they aren't being propped up by the states with laws that limit their competition, don't have to obey the laws of supply and demand. I have to say, I'm really stumped by this attitude. H, it seems that they are good at dropping people who actually need to use their services. See examples of recision by the health insurance companies. If someone gets sick and starts costing them money hurting the profit potential of the company, the insurance company finds a way to ditch the person/company. See above. You and the Rev really need to get your heads around the status quo. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
The title says what? 89 people were polled and those who were interested in whoever was doing the polling were against healthcare? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 1:38 PM, mike wrote: Dueling links? http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/32_favor_single_payer_health_care_57_oppose The title says it. On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote: I hate to throw cold water on all this fun, but wasting time talking about all this fear and straw men is just what the right wing wants you to do. That little video posted a while back is enough for any rational person to get the picture. http://brightcove.newscientist.com/services/player/bcpid2227271001?bctid=30583310001 The public is overwhelmingly for single payer. If congress does anything but work toward putting together a strong single payer plan then they've let the wingers win. It's fear vs. facts. phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Fred Holmesf...@his.com wrote: If you drive the drug companies out of business, then the government will have to manufacture current drugs and develop new ones. Will they do a better job of it? Unlikely! For what it is worth, Cuba has one of the best, if not the overall best health care system in the world. Check out the world's health statistics and see for yourself. Marcio can speak to this issue I am sure. Cuba is one poor as hell nation, and the Cuban health care system is government run, yet is at the top of the A list worldwide. Socialist? Yes. Works extremely well overall? Yes. Far lower child death rate than here in the United States? By far. All citizens get health care? Absolutely. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
This is the standard response when someone doesn't have a decent argument. If you like it so much, why don't you move there? This is a crap argument. If the French found out how to create nuclear fusion, should we all move there, or should we import the idea? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Marcio wrote: This is interesting. I am not pro-Cuba and I dislike Fidel as a ditactoir. I agree that Cuba is doing very poorly, partially because of the US embargo. But I beleive that socialism as in Cuba will never work. As I said before I believe in a combination of capitalism with socialized programs. But I will have to agree that Cuba has a better health care and school system that Brazil and the USA. No doubt. Health care and schools must be socialized in order to work. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 7, 2009 3:50 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... For what it is worth, Cuba has one of the best, if not the overall best health care system in the world. Check out the world's health statistics and see for yourself. Marcio can speak to this issue I am sure. Cuba is one poor as hell nation, and the Cuban health care system is government run, yet is at the top of the A list worldwide. Socialist? Yes. Works extremely well overall? Yes. Far lower child death rate than here in the United States? By far. All citizens get health care? Absolutely. Sounds like paradise. Why aren't you living there? I'm sure the Cuban guvmint has no reason to lie to or distort the truth. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Good. Why are there some, with no interest, so interested in protecting these crooks? If you don't work for, own interest in or own the company out right, what do you care if a crooked insurance company goes out of business? I'm playing Mafia Wars, but it's just a game. These insurance companies play it for real. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: And the ones who will choose choice will be the employers, dumping their health care, and then you, the employee, will have only one choice, the public option. That is what is happening in Massachusetts; the employers would rather pay the penalty for not providing health insurance. And, as I pointed out earlier, the more folks are government insured, the surge in baby boom Medicare, as well as a large public option, the less provider reimbursement will come from private insurers which compensate for the losses from government reimbursement. And, of course, private insurers can't compete with a government run public plan. A private business cannot operate at a loss, the way a government subsidized entity can (like the USPS and Amtrak). Marcio wrote: Whjy are you afraid of a choice between the private insurers and a government program? I said: choice. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com Sent: Sep 7, 2009 3:49 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... This is one subspecialty that is also elective surgery. Now say the same thing about cardiac stints, hernia surgery etc. Yes, I understand that. It's one of the better analogs for demonstrating that the medical industry can deliver quality care with cost awareness. Why wouldn't it work for cardiac stents, hernias, tonsils, etc? It wouldn't work very well for time-sensitive/emergency care or for critical care situations such as cancer treatment, but there is a world of medicine where price can and should matter. We can reform health care the smart way, as proposed by Mackey and illustrated in the article you linked with truly innovative ideas, or the dumb way, with price controls, massive budget deficits and a very high probability of rationing with nowhere else to turn. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Just a thought, but if we stopped calling it the US and just called it us maybe people would remember. Then maybe healthcare for us might sound more attractive. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: Did you notice any Country in this world copying the USA system?... Marcio Oh, that's not going to work, Marcio. Any suggestion, any hint, that the US might not be the best in the world at ANYTHING gets the right wing's nose out of joint. Try that on Fox Nation and all you'll get is a chorus of YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE? LEAVE! They are not fond of any kind of criticism of the US. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Eudora
I use Gmail for one of my boxes, but can someone tell me why I constantly have to tell my Mac to accept the email when I restart the computer and or the mail program? It keeps telling me permissions aren't something or other. I can't remember exactly and don't feel like restarting at the moment. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:45 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:06 PM, scubic scu...@earthlink.net wrote: At 05:58 PM 9/7/2009 -0300, Marcio wrote Hmmm I am considering this...going Gmail. But will I find all that Eudore offers? No. It's web mail. But you can POP your Gmail into Eudora or any other stand-alone mail program. You can use Gmail the same as any other pop based mail, imap based mail or as web based mail. I would switch to Gmail and try it on your current Eudora. I have been using Gmail for over five years and I use it all three ways depending on where I am and which account I am using. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive care unit
Where do you come up with these figures? Have they been fed to you or are they just off the top of your head? You did get to the meat of the problem however. We might have great medical care here in us. But getting it and being able to have access to it is a totally different story. And that is what we're talking about. As for letting the free market work for insurance companies, I'm all for that. Let's stop requiring insurance for damn near everything. Let's make it an option. Do you want to buy a house? You don't have to buy fire insurance. You want to drive a car? You don't have to have whatever insurance. You want to live a few years more? You don't have to buy health insurance. But the option could be there if you do. I agree that the problem lays in prices charged. But I also believe it's our insurance industry that's created this problem, not the lack of free market. How much did you pay to your don last month? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Jeff Morris wrote: For you to say that the health care in Cuba is better than the United States may be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. Given the choice...you mean to tell me that you would fly to Cuba to have open heart surgery instead of having it done by a specialist here? You answered no...I'm certain...which means then, that health care is NOT better in Cuba. You are free to move to Cuba, collect your $3 a month wage and enjoy that health care. Do not confuse health care costs with health care. There is a world of difference between the two. Socializing our health care system will not only hurt our economy...but it will ruin medicine in the United States. You can do some things to fix the cost...without changing the entire system. 85% of the population is perfectly happy with their health care. So you want to wreck what the 85% enjoy so that the 15% get free health care coverage? That's like having 85% of a restaraunt's clientele perfectly happy with the food at a given restaurant...but in order to please the other 15%, we bulldoze the building. Makes just as much sense as bulldozing the current system to satisfy the few, and to satisfy the socialists (Obama, Reid, Pelosi) who want more and more government control over every facet of our lives. Expand medicare to cover those who legitimately cannot afford health care. I'm not talking about those who whine that they can't afford insurance but have two cars, a house they can't afford, cell phones, top tier cable tv and other luxuries. How about if we actually let the free market work for insurance like it does almost every other industry. There are only so many companies I am allowed to buy insurance from. Those are federal regulations and state regulations, and it benefits the insurance company ensuring them of a monopoly of sorts. Let me buy my health insurance anywhere I want - provided they meet federal regulations. That will increase choice of product dramatically, which will increase competition, which will drive down prices and improve service. The free markets have NOT been tried with insurance. Loser pays as part of Tort reform. If you file a bogus lawsuit and lose, you pay the cost of the legal fees for the doctor or pharmacuetical company you just sued. That would just about put an end to the frivelous and phony lawsuits. Doctors and drug companies and anybody else who can be sued pay huge, huge fees for insurance...which of course if passed along to the consumer. Won't happen though. Why? The majority of congress are lawyers. No...there are plenty of things that can be done besides turning us into a socialist country. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Ubuntu 9.04 Installation]
On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 00:09 -0400, Vicky Staubly wrote: On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Rob wrote: On Mon, 2009-09-07 at 19:22 -0400, John DeCarlo wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Rob robfl...@ix.netcom.com wrote: When I choose to boot Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Splash Screen appears and I get the following: Boot from (hd2,0) ext 3 eb309597-f711-458-b3b7-0a281dae6281 How many hard drives do you have in the system? (hd2,0) means the first partition on drive 3 (hd0 is first hard drive, hd1 is second). When it is booting, you can use the arrows to select one, then press 'e' to edit. I would try changing (hd2,0) to (hd1,0) or (hd3,0) and see if that works. I have one internal drive but it has two partitions. Where would I make the change you suggest above? And, why would it be seeing the Ubuntu splash screen if it cannot see the drive. It apparently does see it but then somehow changes its mind and says it doesn't exist. I thought maybe I had a flaky USB port for the external drive but I just swapped that connection and got the same results. :( The GRUB code is probably not on the same drive as your Ubuntu installation. GRUB is probably at the beginning (the master boot record, or MBR) of your internal drive. So, that should explain why it can load itself, but not Linux. Thanks Vicky. You are correct Grub is on my internal drive but it points to both (internal for XP and external for Ubuntu). One nice thing about GRUB is that once it's loaded, it will let you change its configuration on the fly. As John says, pressing e lets you change the GRUB commands normally used for one of the entries in your boot menu (you probably have 2 entries, 1 for Ubuntu and 1 for Windows). I tried editing with the use of e for all of the entries in Grub with the same end result. I'm really mystified by this and am not sure whether it's some kind of hardware problem or configuration problem at this point. Select the entry you want to try booting. Then press e to edit that entry. It should then show you a list of commands... such as root hd(2,0)... I think that's what John wants you to edit. I haven't played around with Grub a lot myself (it's generally worked as-is for me). For more details, the grub manu can be found here: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Booting Rob * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Ubuntu 9.04 Installation]
I think there is something wrong with the Grub that gets installed with Ubuntu 9.04. I was installing on a single partitioned hard drive along with XP. There was a second internal hard drive in the machine. Grub didn't work for me, although it had always worked before on all previous releases, going back several releases. -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Ubuntu 9.04 Installation]
On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 07:05 -0400, Roger D. Parish wrote: I think there is something wrong with the Grub that gets installed with Ubuntu 9.04. I was installing on a single partitioned hard drive along with XP. There was a second internal hard drive in the machine. Grub didn't work for me, although it had always worked before on all previous releases, going back several releases. hmmm...I guess, then, the only answer is to wait until next month when 9.10 is released? Thanks for this. It makes me feel better that I'm not the only one (although your second drive is internal, while mine is external). Rob * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
? where you been Marcio? I Thought that what I've been doing all along. Though many of those views are well received. I need to explain a few things here. I suffer from congestive heart failure. From what I could find my survival rate was 13% after being diagnosed for the first 5 years. I'm on year 6.5 and feeling ok. I had no insurance when I initially went to the clinic and then the doctor. I spent about 5 minutes filling out paperwork. That was the first time. In the hospital I spent no time filling out anything. Everything got filled out for me. By who I don't know. But now I get all my meds for free. I also get food stamps at $200/mo which I rarely use. I never asked for them. But what the hell. I even got a letter from the state questioning why I wasn't using them. And to further explain the story, I started getting $97/mo and then got a letter saying I needed $174/mo. If I had problems with this I could ask for a review and debate the the decision. A couple of months later they uped it to $200/mo, It came with the same proviso that I could challenge this if I thought it wasn't enough. Like I said earlier, I eat steak twice a week. I try and find new recipes for the chicken, fish and pork the rest of the week. I think us wants me to be obese. I could live on Top Raman and a ham sandwich or two for most any week. I should look more closely at the king crab legs. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Marcio wrote: Share you views and perceptions Jeff. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Sep 7, 2009 7:39 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Sorry to say, but you sound like the guy who sits on his porch and yells at the kids for being on his lawn. I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing the mail carriers aren't allowed to actually put something in your home. So using the mail slot probably isn't a legal option for them. I do know for sure that only the USPS is allowed to use your mail box. This is why you get things from pizza companies and others hanging on your door knob. As for the signing for things. Would you be complaining if they left something important that was then stolen by some sleaze bag? You always have the option of not picking up the package or letter that need a signature. And when it comes to the postal employee pay, I don't think they get paid enough. The employees at all the postal stations in my area are some of the friendliest people I've met. I know I couldn't do their job and remain that friendly. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: Regularly, I get other people's mail delivered to my home. On some occasions, it has been outgoing mail that the mail carrier has picked up at someone else's home. The mail may arrive at any time from 10:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., which says that they don't have a standard, routine manner in which the deliver the mail. I took down the mailbox on the front of my house and installed a mail slot in my front door, but the letter carriers often won't use it. The just leave the mail inside the storm door, which then stays partially propped open and thereby doesn't perform its intended purpose. When I'm not home to sign for a receipted item of mail, there is no clue on the postcard announcement that is left at my home as to who the sender is or what sort of article it is, so there is no way to prioritize my visit to the Post Office. And with post office hours now reduced to 9:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., working folks have to take additional time off from work to stop at the post o! ffice to pick up receipted mail. But the letter carriers have an extremely good pay and benefits package. Fred Holmes At 03:04 AM 9/6/2009, Jeff Miles wrote: True, the post office certainly has on many occasions. Does anyone really stop and think what the post office does on a daily basis? I have yet to find a privet company that has worked as efficiently and consistently. And, being governmentally run, the post office's goal isn't to make a profit. No government program is run to make a profit. People bitch when the programs loose money, and they'd bitch about prices and taxes if the programs were making money. It's a no win situation. I have yet, in my 47 years, realized something getting lossed by the USPS. On occasion it's taken a day or more to get here or there. But at the cost, I really can't complain. And with the millions of letters and packages they deal with each day, Fed-Ex and UPS seem to be doing just fine. In fact new people are coming on board. What's the new one? Some Yellow truck, 3 letters, can't remember the name.
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Move down here and we can remedy that situation for you. Not all states are as generous and $200 a month for groceries are a minmum. Stewart At 06:59 AM 9/8/2009, you wrote: ? where you been Marcio? I Thought that what I've been doing all along. Though many of those views are well received. I need to explain a few things here. I suffer from congestive heart failure. From what I could find my survival rate was 13% after being diagnosed for the first 5 years. I'm on year 6.5 and feeling ok. I had no insurance when I initially went to the clinic and then the doctor. I spent about 5 minutes filling out paperwork. That was the first time. In the hospital I spent no time filling out anything. Everything got filled out for me. By who I don't know. But now I get all my meds for free. I also get food stamps at $200/mo which I rarely use. I never asked for them. But what the hell. I even got a letter from the state questioning why I wasn't using them. And to further explain the story, I started getting $97/mo and then got a letter saying I needed $174/mo. If I had problems with this I could ask for a review and debate the the decision. A couple of months later they uped it to $200/mo, It came with the same proviso that I could challenge this if I thought it wasn't enough. Like I said earlier, I eat steak twice a week. I try and find new recipes for the chicken, fish and pork the rest of the week. I think us wants me to be obese. I could live on Top Raman and a ham sandwich or two for most any week. I should look more closely at the king crab legs. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Marcio wrote: Share you views and perceptions Jeff. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Sep 7, 2009 7:39 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Sorry to say, but you sound like the guy who sits on his porch and yells at the kids for being on his lawn. I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing the mail carriers aren't allowed to actually put something in your home. So using the mail slot probably isn't a legal option for them. I do know for sure that only the USPS is allowed to use your mail box. This is why you get things from pizza companies and others hanging on your door knob. As for the signing for things. Would you be complaining if they left something important that was then stolen by some sleaze bag? You always have the option of not picking up the package or letter that need a signature. And when it comes to the postal employee pay, I don't think they get paid enough. The employees at all the postal stations in my area are some of the friendliest people I've met. I know I couldn't do their job and remain that friendly. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: Regularly, I get other people's mail delivered to my home. On some occasions, it has been outgoing mail that the mail carrier has picked up at someone else's home. The mail may arrive at any time from 10:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., which says that they don't have a standard, routine manner in which the deliver the mail. I took down the mailbox on the front of my house and installed a mail slot in my front door, but the letter carriers often won't use it. The just leave the mail inside the storm door, which then stays partially propped open and thereby doesn't perform its intended purpose. When I'm not home to sign for a receipted item of mail, there is no clue on the postcard announcement that is left at my home as to who the sender is or what sort of article it is, so there is no way to prioritize my visit to the Post Office. And with post office hours now reduced to 9:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., working folks have to take additional time off from work to stop at the post o! ffice to pick up receipted mail. But the letter carriers have an extremely good pay and benefits package. Fred Holmes At 03:04 AM 9/6/2009, Jeff Miles wrote: True, the post office certainly has on many occasions. Does anyone really stop and think what the post office does on a daily basis? I have yet to find a privet company that has worked as efficiently and consistently. And, being governmentally run, the post office's goal isn't to make a profit. No government program is run to make a profit. People bitch when the programs loose money, and they'd bitch about prices and taxes if the programs were making money. It's a no win situation. I have yet, in my 47 years, realized something getting lossed by the USPS. On occasion it's taken a day or more to get here or there. But at the cost, I really can't complain. And with the millions of letters and packages they deal with each
Re: [CGUYS] [Fwd: Ubuntu 9.04 Installation]
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto I use Fedora but Grub is Grub. The url above should get you pointed in the right direction. It sounds like the grub entries are pointing to the wrong drive or partition and grub is unable to find files which is causing the boot up problems. There are 3 lines that you can edit and modify until you get it to properly boot. typically it is the root, kernel and initrd lines. On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 08:06:07AM -0400, Rob wrote: On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 07:05 -0400, Roger D. Parish wrote: I think there is something wrong with the Grub that gets installed with Ubuntu 9.04. I was installing on a single partitioned hard drive along with XP. There was a second internal hard drive in the machine. Grub didn't work for me, although it had always worked before on all previous releases, going back several releases. hmmm...I guess, then, the only answer is to wait until next month when 9.10 is released? Thanks for this. It makes me feel better that I'm not the only one (although your second drive is internal, while mine is external). Rob * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: Rev, now you miss his point. If you allow companies to compete over state lines, removing their captive audience, you won't *need* mandates. That's what competition is best at providing: choice. You mean like when we got rid of the laws that required local banking? That worked very well. Didn't it? If you look for banks that did not get caught in the sub-prime fiasco you will find that these were banks run by local bankers who knew who and what was getting the loan. You will also find that such banks that are willing to work with their customers when times get tough and did not rush to foreclose. And why does the federal government have Medicaid administered by the states? You might find the answer above. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Eudora
I use Gmail for one of my boxes, but can someone tell me why I constantly have to tell my Mac to accept the email when I restart the computer and or the mail program? It keeps telling me permissions aren't something or other. I can't remember exactly and don't feel like restarting at the moment. Many email providers have changed their POP, IMAP, SMTP security settings over the past year or so. These are the ones I use in TBird for GMail, from GMail help pages: POP - port 995; security setting SSL SMTP - port 587; secure connection TLS I had a lot of trouble before I switched the GMail security settings [after Yahoo! changed their settings]. Increasing security by changing settings made problems go away. Also, I can use any one of the outgoing servers for all my email. When I use Verizon SMTP, it works OK. With Yahoo! I have to verify any outside email addresses first, then all email goes out OK. With GMail, any email I send out is automatically changed to the GMail address, even if I use Verizon, Yahoo!, eKit or other email address when creating the message. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Not only do you have to pay but their scales in many cases are not regulated. (Paid a $50 penalty on a flight recently for an overweight bag. One between the two of us. ) Read a story about an airport where they went through and calibrated the scales. Many were off by a few pounds. Stewart At 03:17 AM 9/8/2009, you wrote: This is a terrible comparison. But if you must, the airline travel industry has also gone to hell. I don't know how much you fly, but it's miserable today as compared to 20 years ago. A couple of weeks ago Alaska airlines started charging for even my first checked bag. And they don't bother telling you this till you're at the counter. So go to the airport with cash in your pocket. The seating space on planes has decreased. No movies unless you pay for the headsets. And you get meals on a long flight if you pay for them. But all of this of course is if you are flying coach. First class is a different story, and the only thing I'd fly nowadays on a flight longer then 4 hours. But then again, you have to pay for it. Hmmm, coach healthcare and then first class healthcare if I'm willing to pay for it. What a concept. Jeff Miles Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
Where do you come up with these figures? Have they been fed to you or are they just off the top of your head? You did get to the meat of the problem however. We might have great medical care here in us. But getting it and being able to have access to it is a totally different story. And that is what we're talking about. As for letting the free market work for insurance companies, I'm all for that. Let's stop requiring insurance for damn near everything. Let's make it an option. Do you want to buy a house? You don't have to buy fire insurance. You want to drive a car? You don't have to have whatever insurance. You want to live a few years more? You don't have to buy health insurance. But the option could be there if you do. I agree that the problem lays in prices charged. But I also believe it's our insurance industry that's created this problem, not the lack of free market. It may seem counterintuitive, but the reason you have home owner's insurance is to benefit the mortgage carriers, not you; your car insurance is to keep others' insurance from going up too high and for the public agencies that cover the ininsured [unless you live in a state where this doesn't exist]--that's why it's required. Requiring you to have health insurance keeps the hospitals from charging insured patients higher fees to cover uninsured patients, and keeps your taxes from covering uninsured patients in expensive emergency rooms. You'll pay more by not having insurance when you get sick and suffer a medical bankruptcy. Insured patients pay more--providers will charge them more. When everyone is covered by nonprofit and/or public insurance, the costs are reduced significantly. Used to be the best health insurers were private nonprofits like Kaiser Permanente or BC/BS. By switching to a for-profit system in the US, rates skyrocketed, out-of-pocket expenses for insured patients also went up, while insurance co. profits ballooned. There's no free market. Never has been. Get over it. Deal with the economy as it exists, not in some utopian, fear-inspired fantasy. Good health, quality education, a stable economy with manufacturing, and a clean environment are as important to our security as diplomacy and our military. Who will be healthy and educated well enough to create and run our new clean high tech [and other] industries? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Jeff you got me interested. Don´t be impressed by statistics and be careful with the information you get from the Internet. Talk with your doctor. Cardiology is a branch of medicine that is growing a lot and you will never know what is coming next. My advice: if you are feeling good live life to the fullest, enjoy each minute of it, and let diseases become bigger than they deserve. Insofar as health care. I guess you fell into the Medicaid support network? I am not sure in which State you live but people who who receive Medicaid, as a rule have pretty good services. Of course, as you know, it is a socialized program, the tax payers (Federal and State) share the costs. The problem are the people who can´t receive Medicaid because they are not considered poor (there is a scale to determine who is elegible). People who earn more that the minimum required, are not above 65 years old (another socialized program) and have no insurance public or private. They are a large number. They are people who lost their jobs, people who developped a disease and are no longer accepted in new insurance, people who are afraid of changind jobs for fear of losing their insurance. They are many! When I discuss in favor of the Singloe Payer I am saying that everyone should take the risks and have access. If you lump Medicaid, Medicare, VA, ald all other health care programs in one... the burden in the citizen will be minimal and everyone will have access. Hope you understand. Live life to the fullest. It goes lasts such a short time... Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Sep 8, 2009 8:59 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... ? where you been Marcio? I Thought that what I've been doing all along. Though many of those views are well received. I need to explain a few things here. I suffer from congestive heart failure. From what I could find my survival rate was 13% after being diagnosed for the first 5 years. I'm on year 6.5 and feeling ok. I had no insurance when I initially went to the clinic and then the doctor. I spent about 5 minutes filling out paperwork. That was the first time. In the hospital I spent no time filling out anything. Everything got filled out for me. By who I don't know. But now I get all my meds for free. I also get food stamps at $200/mo which I rarely use. I never asked for them. But what the hell. I even got a letter from the state questioning why I wasn't using them. And to further explain the story, I started getting $97/mo and then got a letter saying I needed $174/mo. If I had problems with this I could ask for a review and debate the the decision. A couple of months later they uped it to $200/mo, It came with the same proviso that I could challenge this if I thought it wasn't enough. Like I said earlier, I eat steak twice a week. I try and find new recipes for the chicken, fish and pork the rest of the week. I think us wants me to be obese. I could live on Top Raman and a ham sandwich or two for most any week. I should look more closely at the king crab legs. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Marcio wrote: Share you views and perceptions Jeff. Marcio -Original Message- From: Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Sent: Sep 7, 2009 7:39 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit... Sorry to say, but you sound like the guy who sits on his porch and yells at the kids for being on his lawn. I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing the mail carriers aren't allowed to actually put something in your home. So using the mail slot probably isn't a legal option for them. I do know for sure that only the USPS is allowed to use your mail box. This is why you get things from pizza companies and others hanging on your door knob. As for the signing for things. Would you be complaining if they left something important that was then stolen by some sleaze bag? You always have the option of not picking up the package or letter that need a signature. And when it comes to the postal employee pay, I don't think they get paid enough. The employees at all the postal stations in my area are some of the friendliest people I've met. I know I couldn't do their job and remain that friendly. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: Regularly, I get other people's mail delivered to my home. On some occasions, it has been outgoing mail that the mail carrier has picked up at someone else's home. The mail may arrive at any time from 10:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., which says that they don't have a standard, routine manner in
[CGUYS] Back to dial up
Lost DSL sync on Monday. Reset, regained sync for a few minutes, then it dropped again. Had the same problem two months ago. It was fixed rapidly last time. This time, I called India. It took, no kidding, I timed it, 45 minutes to run through the call center script. All of which was useless, as I all ready knew my my local setup was perfect. It had to be the card in the DSLAM, my device sees DSL signal but no sync. So press the damn reset, right? No go. I am able to escalate this, I am doing it now. OK good. An hour is now down the tubes. Two hours later a rep, American, calls me. We will send a technician to your location to troubleshoot this, our earliest appointment will be next Tuesday, and someone will have to be home all day. That's right, a week from now. Now this is unacceptable. I didn't pull rank, escalate or even whip out the big guns. I didn't advise them at any point who they were dealing with or even mention that I worked for Verizon or what I did. I was far more interested in finding out what kind of treatment the average Joe gets from our customer service people. Which is not their fault, they do what they are instructed to do. I got NO sense that my problem was important or of any kind of significant issue to either of these representatives. If those people worked for me, and I found out about it, there would be all kinds of Hell to pay. For the record, I will be pursuing this. Not to get special treatment, which I don't expect, but hopefully to raise awareness of how badly I was treated, which I frankly didn't expect. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Back to dial up
At 10:01 PM -0400 9/8/09, Eric S. Sande wrote: OK good. An hour is now down the tubes. Two hours later a rep, American, calls me. We will send a technician to your location to troubleshoot this, our earliest appointment will be next Tuesday, and someone will have to be home all day. That's right, a week from now. Average Joe here. Yes, this sounds very familiar, except in my case (with FiOS) the telephone service was also affected. You are not alone. - John P.S. The one consolationComcast is even worse! -- * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 6, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: That food, which uses a mixed but largely free market system, is so cheap and plentiful that even the poor can easily afford it, is lost on the socialized medicine proponents. Did you see the Time cover story about cheap food? This is another issue that Americans will have to face up to. Corporate farmers are polluting our world and serving up food from diseased animals. Our food is so strongly laced with antibiotics that they are breeding new strains of drug-resistant diseases. The corporate farmers are slowly killing us. Have a nice day! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Fred Holmes wrote: But liberals proclaim that you should never defend yourself against an attacker. You should run away and call the police. Why did this individual not follow the liberal doctrine? When _you_ are being attacked, you all of a sudden become a conservative, don't you? Make a note who's living in lala land. This is useful information. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 7, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Jordan wrote: http://brightcove.newscientist.com/services/player/bcpid2227271001?bctid=30583310001 Thank you. Very well thought out and rational. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 6, 2009, at 4:33 PM, mike wrote: You don't seem to have a full grasp on capitalism. If your letters didn't arrive you'd switch carriers and get them to arrive. It's called Fedex and UPS and DHL etc. Would one pizza shop across the nation be good? There was a time when you had to subscribe to a fire company to protect your house. Members of other fire companies would stand around and watch your house burn. I see you long for the good old days. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 6, 2009, at 4:34 PM, mike wrote: The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. While this is definitely off topic, it is still very useful in the general context of the List's discussions about computers and technology. It gets us away from tainted topics like Macs vs PCs and lets us see how other people reason. This will be good to remember when we do get back to the main topic of the List. Some people just do not have a tight grasp on reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 6, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: We are being told that health care is a right. I disagree. Health care is paramount, no doubt, but it is no more a right than food or a place to live. If you encounter someone who is hungry and you don't feed them you are not being nice. If you encounter someone who is homeless and you don't shelter them you are not being nice. If you encounter someone who is bleeding to death and you don't help them you are a criminal. Tell us again that you don't see the difference. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 7, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: And the ones who will choose choice will be the employers, dumping their health care, and then you, the employee, will have only one choice, the public option. That is what is happening in Massachusetts; the employers would rather pay the penalty for not providing health insurance. Here in DC there are mandates on insurance companies that require provision of reasonable insurance at reasonable rates to DC citizens. As a DC-based employer I cannot get coverage that is as good and as affordable for my employees. Unfortunately, all my staff does not live in DC. If they did, you bet I would stop providing coverage. Anyone who would call that dumping their health care would be a jerk. There is no honor in enriching insurance company managers who earn their $100,000,000 salaries by pronouncing death sentences on the sick, the poor, and the crippled. I guess they insist on being rewarded in this world to compensate for the torment they will surely suffer in the next. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
On Sep 8, 2009, at 11:41 AM, b_s-wilk wrote: It may seem counterintuitive, but the reason you have home owner's insurance is to benefit the mortgage carriers, not you; your car insurance is to keep others' insurance from going up too high and for the public agencies that cover the ininsured [unless you live in a state where this doesn't exist]--that's why it's required. Requiring you to have health insurance keeps the hospitals from charging insured patients higher fees to cover uninsured patients, and keeps your taxes from covering uninsured patients in expensive emergency rooms. This post is a keeper. Thank you. Forward it to your Congress creatures. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Back to dial up
On Sep 8, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: For the record, I will be pursuing this. Not to get special treatment, which I don't expect, but hopefully to raise awareness of how badly I was treated, which I frankly didn't expect. Take care that they don't run you over with their truck. (Does anyone know how that incident concluded?) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Ok, this is on both topics, health care and computers. Jim Clark started Healtheon. MS bought it. It was supposed to be a system of putting healthcare history of patients online to cut out waste. Whatever happened with that? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:37 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Sep 6, 2009, at 4:34 PM, mike wrote: The UK and Canada are moving away from socialized medicine, not towards it. While this is definitely off topic, it is still very useful in the general context of the List's discussions about computers and technology. It gets us away from tainted topics like Macs vs PCs and lets us see how other people reason. This will be good to remember when we do get back to the main topic of the List. Some people just do not have a tight grasp on reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Sounds like paradise. Why aren't you living there? I was just waiting for the old love it or leave it bullshit to start. Why can't an intelligent and respectful conversation take place without descending into the pit of old worn out saws such as that? Really? You saw love or leave it in there? I asked you a simple question, to which you read a great deal into that wasn't there. If it's that great, why aren't you living there? Could there be other reasons you aren't? Why don't you go on the internet, or seek the information anywhere you choose to, to discover how abysmal the overall health care in the United States really is, especially when viewed in light of our extreme financial wealth? I have, many times. Yes, we spend more on health care. We also spend more on many other things as well things, compared to countries such as France and Germany. Does our government lie and distort the truth? Does our current administration lie and distort the truth? Did our most recent previous administration lie and distort the truth, or is such the sole provence of Cuba or any other nation that is not our own? Please stop this silliness. Where did I suggest that our own govt doesnt lie? Everyone is doing so that makes it OK? I'm being silly? Please. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I did find it interesting someone would equate violence with either being liberal or conservative. I personally know some pretty passive conservatives and also some pretty violent liberals. I don't think how you feel about Sarah Palin and her views makes you one or the other. I won't go any further then that on my views of the woman. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:47 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Fred Holmes wrote: But liberals proclaim that you should never defend yourself against an attacker. You should run away and call the police. Why did this individual not follow the liberal doctrine? When _you_ are being attacked, you all of a sudden become a conservative, don't you? Make a note who's living in lala land. This is useful information. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
As one with family from Cuba and some friends remaining, I can assure you that Jeff W. has no idea about Cuba, considering his comments. It's their health care insurance system and outcomes that are better than ours, not the high tech gadgets and expensive doctors. The Cuban government, thanks to US intervention and unnecessary embargos, is oppressive, and the people are suffering from that. Government oppression has not affected the affordability and quality of outcomes in Cuba, which are more favorable than in the US, with insurance and care universally available, unlike here. I was wondering when you would get around to apologizing for tyrants. The Cuban govt is oppressive because it chooses to be and can be. The embargo is stupid and should have been lifted long ago, but many, many other countries have managed to oppress their people without any US embargo. I thought of you and your talking points post when I read Camille Paglia's latest column. …affluent middle-class Democrats now seem to be complacently servile toward authority and automatically believe everything party leaders tell them. Why? Is it because the new professional class is a glossy product of generically institutionalized learning? Independent thought and logical analysis of argument are no longer taught. Elite education in the U.S. has become a frenetic assembly line of competitive college application to schools where ideological brainwashing is so pandemic that it’s invisible. The top schools, from the Ivy League on down, promote “critical thinking,” which sounds good but is in fact just a style of rote regurgitation of hackneyed approved terms (”racism, sexism, homophobia”) when confronted with any social issue. The Democratic brain has been marinating so long in those cliches that it’s positively pickled… By a proportion of something like 10-to-1, negative articles by conservatives were vastly more detailed, specific and practical about the proposals than were supportive articles by Democrats, which often made gestures rather than arguments and brimmed with emotion and sneers. There was a glaring inability in most Democratic commentary to think ahead and forecast what would or could be the actual snarled consequences-- in terms of delays, denial of services, errors, miscommunications and gross invasions of privacy -- of a massive single-payer overhaul of the healthcare system in a nation as large and populous as ours. It was as if Democrats live in a utopian dream world, divorced from the daily demands and realities of organization and management. Read more. http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/ * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Do Typographers Despise M$?
On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:16 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Futura is more attractive than Verdana. The real problem here is that IKEA switched to a M$ font. M$ a company that is not renown for really good design. Actually Verdana is one of two fonts that M$ had designed by Mathew Carter, who is renowned for really good design. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Did you see the Time cover story about cheap food? This is another issue that Americans will have to face up to. Corporate farmers are polluting our world and serving up food from diseased animals. Our food is so strongly laced with antibiotics that they are breeding new strains of drug-resistant diseases. The corporate farmers are slowly killing us. Have a nice day! S, Tom, the grownups are talking. Yes, your non-sequitors are very nice. Uh-huh, I know, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Run along now and go play. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] MacFriendly webhost recommendation
On Sep 6, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I have heard of some registration agents taking ownership of the site when they register and then you are held hostage in the process. I continue to be listed as the owner. They are listed as the technical contact, as they should. What is the URL for 1and 1? www.1and1.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
You mean like when we got rid of the laws that required local banking? That worked very well. Didn't it? If you look for banks that did not get caught in the sub-prime fiasco you will find that these were banks run by local bankers who knew who and what was getting the loan. You will also find that such banks that are willing to work with their customers when times get tough and did not rush to foreclose. Actually, you will find the banks that survived were the ones who were more diversified in their holdings. The one that went tits up were the old investment houses that only recently started banking businesses. And why does the federal government have Medicaid administered by the states? You might find the answer above. And why is Medicare an actuarial mess and lurching towards insolvency? I think you'll find your answer somewhere around reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
On Sep 9, 2009, at 12:14 AM, Jeff Miles wrote: Ok, this is on both topics, health care and computers. Jim Clark started Healtheon. MS bought it. It was supposed to be a system of putting healthcare history of patients online to cut out waste. Whatever happened with that? Healtheon merged with WebMD in 1999. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
If you encounter someone who is hungry and you don't feed them you are not being nice. If you encounter someone who is homeless and you don't shelter them you are not being nice. If you encounter someone who is bleeding to death and you don't help them you are a criminal. Tell us again that you don't see the difference. The only thing I'm not seeing here is a point. D-. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
She said we, she didn't say you. We aren't including you. So don't bother voting next election. It won't be counted. You're not included. Oh, we'll still be taking SS out of your paycheck. Probably LI as well, but you aren't part of our government. Wow, how freeing that must feel. A man of the world. Oh! To the heart! You big meanie. Yes, it was a very nice DNC talking points post. Filled with null data and misty eyed nostalgic naiveté. We ain't been the guvmint for some time now, but please, don't let me interrupt the fantasy that any of us still have a role to play other than thrall. I knew I should have just started punching myself in the head, rather than let myself get dragged into one of these pointless health care arguments. It always degrades into partisan idiocy. Life's too short... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I'm amazed that those against health care options don't see the insurance companies as death panels. Because Sarah says it they're quick to jump on the idea when it comes to a federal health option, but seeing their own insurance companies as doing the same? Hand over the head motion here. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:02 PM, t.piwowar wrote: On Sep 7, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: And the ones who will choose choice will be the employers, dumping their health care, and then you, the employee, will have only one choice, the public option. That is what is happening in Massachusetts; the employers would rather pay the penalty for not providing health insurance. Here in DC there are mandates on insurance companies that require provision of reasonable insurance at reasonable rates to DC citizens. As a DC-based employer I cannot get coverage that is as good and as affordable for my employees. Unfortunately, all my staff does not live in DC. If they did, you bet I would stop providing coverage. Anyone who would call that dumping their health care would be a jerk. There is no honor in enriching insurance company managers who earn their $100,000,000 salaries by pronouncing death sentences on the sick, the poor, and the crippled. I guess they insist on being rewarded in this world to compensate for the torment they will surely suffer in the next. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Back to dial up
We have the same problem from time to time, but get much better service here in the boonies. It's usually not in our house. They can test the lines from the main office. I can test the lines at point of entry. Did they do a line test? I know there's a minor short somewhere in the house and will fix it one of these days [the new wire is in a box in the dining room], and disconnecting service outside for a while fixes it. Last time service was out, I knew it wasn't inside. They figured out that the switch box a mile down the road had flooded [should be better protected?]. Never reached a call center in India for Verizon DSL problems. Is this something new? At 10:01 PM -0400 9/8/09, Eric S. Sande wrote: OK good. An hour is now down the tubes. Two hours later a rep, American, calls me. We will send a technician to your location to troubleshoot this, our earliest appointment will be next Tuesday, and someone will have to be home all day. That's right, a week from now. Average Joe here. Yes, this sounds very familiar, except in my case (with FiOS) the telephone service was also affected. You are not alone. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
This is a terrible comparison. But if you must, the airline travel industry has also gone to hell. I don't know how much you fly, but it's miserable today as compared to 20 years ago I fly a couple of times a year. It's OK. What I do know is that it's no longer only a tool for the businessman or the wealthy as it was pre-deregulation. Everyone can afford to fly now, which in my book, is a great thing. It's not the state-protected status quo, which again, that's a good thing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I agree with the idea that if you love it so much why don't you move there is a BS argument. How about, if it works, lets bring it here? We import just about everything else, why not healthcare ideas? Oh, no money in it. Can we export our insurance companies to China with the proviso they stay there and not do business here? I was all for exporting wacko neocons to Alaska and let them drill to their hearts content if they weren't allowed back in the lower 48. They could drill and sit on their porches with binoculars and keep on eye on them pesky Russians. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Sounds like paradise. Why aren't you living there? I was just waiting for the old love it or leave it bullshit to start. Why can't an intelligent and respectful conversation take place without descending into the pit of old worn out saws such as that? Really? You saw love or leave it in there? I asked you a simple question, to which you read a great deal into that wasn't there. If it's that great, why aren't you living there? Could there be other reasons you aren't? Why don't you go on the internet, or seek the information anywhere you choose to, to discover how abysmal the overall health care in the United States really is, especially when viewed in light of our extreme financial wealth? I have, many times. Yes, we spend more on health care. We also spend more on many other things as well things, compared to countries such as France and Germany. Does our government lie and distort the truth? Does our current administration lie and distort the truth? Did our most recent previous administration lie and distort the truth, or is such the sole provence of Cuba or any other nation that is not our own? Please stop this silliness. Where did I suggest that our own govt doesn’t lie? Everyone is doing so that makes it OK? I'm being silly? Please. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Insurance and National Security [was: Intensive care unit]
There's no free market. Never has been. Get over it. Deal with the economy as it exists, not in some utopian, fear-inspired fantasy. Good health, quality education, a stable economy with manufacturing, and a clean environment are as important to our security as diplomacy and our military. Who will be healthy and educated well enough to create and run our new clean high tech [and other] industries? I almost saluted the flag as I read this. **sniff** Shorter Betty: Do as you're told by your betters and don't get uppity. It's like Paglia used you for a model for her column. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Hmmm, coach healthcare and then first class healthcare if I'm willing to pay for it. What a concept. Sounds like you're describing the UK's DHS or Canada's Medicare to a T. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
What was that movie? Gattica? It focused on the DNA thing mostly, but the people's complacency was also shown. Just do what you're told. I find it funny that when liberals want change its called socialism or pandering to people with hands out. While when neocons call for change it's fanatical renegade John Wynism (I just made that up). I don't think either are to far apart on what we all want, but we're to damn stubborn to say, hey, I agree with that. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: As one with family from Cuba and some friends remaining, I can assure you that Jeff W. has no idea about Cuba, considering his comments. It's their health care insurance system and outcomes that are better than ours, not the high tech gadgets and expensive doctors. The Cuban government, thanks to US intervention and unnecessary embargos, is oppressive, and the people are suffering from that. Government oppression has not affected the affordability and quality of outcomes in Cuba, which are more favorable than in the US, with insurance and care universally available, unlike here. I was wondering when you would get around to apologizing for tyrants. The Cuban govt is oppressive because it chooses to be and can be. The embargo is stupid and should have been lifted long ago, but many, many other countries have managed to oppress their people without any US embargo. I thought of you and your talking points post when I read Camille Paglia's latest column. …affluent middle-class Democrats now seem to be complacently servile toward authority and automatically believe everything party leaders tell them. Why? Is it because the new professional class is a glossy product of generically institutionalized learning? Independent thought and logical analysis of argument are no longer taught. Elite education in the U.S. has become a frenetic assembly line of competitive college application to schools where ideological brainwashing is so pandemic that it’s invisible. The top schools, from the Ivy League on down, promote “critical thinking,” which sounds good but is in fact just a style of rote regurgitation of hackneyed approved terms (”racism, sexism, homophobia”) when confronted with any social issue. The Democratic brain has been marinating so long in those cliches that it’s positively pickled… By a proportion of something like 10-to-1, negative articles by conservatives were vastly more detailed, specific and practical about the proposals than were supportive articles by Democrats, which often made gestures rather than arguments and brimmed with emotion and sneers. There was a glaring inability in most Democratic commentary to think ahead and forecast what would or could be the actual snarled consequences-- in terms of delays, denial of services, errors, miscommunications and gross invasions of privacy -- of a massive single-payer overhaul of the healthcare system in a nation as large and populous as ours. It was as if Democrats live in a utopian dream world, divorced from the daily demands and realities of organization and management. Read more. http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/ * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Whjy are you afraid of a choice between the private insurers and a government program? I said: choice. Private insurers can't print money or tax their customers when times get tight. You can't compete with the govt. Choice with the state is a bug, not a feature. If the issue are persons without insurance, then why are we talking about making a program for everyone else too? As I said, it's a stalking horse for single-payer. If it were only to cover the uninsured, then expanding Medicare coverage would be the expedient and practical solution. It's not even on the table. For a president who said that he didn't want any part in running an auto company, he sure seems all fired up to run an insurance company. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
I find it funny that when liberals want change its called socialism or pandering to people with hands out. While when neocons call for change it's fanatical renegade John Wynism (I just made that up). Nah, it's pretty much socialism when the Stupid Party does it too. I don't think either are to far apart on what we all want, but we're to damn stubborn to say, hey, I agree with that. Reinforcing the idea that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the 2 parties. If either party had any ideas worth agreeing with, I'd be all over it. Still waiting for that. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Intensive Care Unit...
Once again I have to point out government programs aren't created and meant to make a profit. Can you imagine the bitching if they actually did? Where's the money going? Who's pockets are being lined? The complaining never stops. It's one reason I stopped being a professional photographer after 25 years. I got tired of saying, I'm sorry you're ugly. But paying me isn't going to change that. I'll just record the fact. Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:37 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: You mean like when we got rid of the laws that required local banking? That worked very well. Didn't it? If you look for banks that did not get caught in the sub-prime fiasco you will find that these were banks run by local bankers who knew who and what was getting the loan. You will also find that such banks that are willing to work with their customers when times get tough and did not rush to foreclose. Actually, you will find the banks that survived were the ones who were more diversified in their holdings. The one that went tits up were the old investment houses that only recently started banking businesses. And why does the federal government have Medicaid administered by the states? You might find the answer above. And why is Medicare an actuarial mess and lurching towards insolvency? I think you'll find your answer somewhere around reality. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Do Typographers Despise M$?
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:28 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:16 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Futura is more attractive than Verdana. The real problem here is that IKEA switched to a M$ font. M$ a company that is not renown for really good design. Actually Verdana is one of two fonts that M$ had designed by Mathew Carter, who is renowned for really good design. I guess he had an off day but I prefer the sans serif slickness of Futura. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
